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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    edited March 2018

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    He's complaining that the government has been accurate?

    Its a chemical compound of course you can't tell where its been manufactured.....not like a radioisotope where there's a good chance you can narrow down its source..ly?
    Skepticism of government is all very well and good, essential even, but there's a definite pattern to conspiracy theorists, and the russians, when it comes to these matters, which ties into what the BBC referred to as their 'implausible deniability' strategy: that of requiring a level of proof so severe before you even dare to suggest it might be them, that it is unprovable without a signed letter from Vlad himself. No one will ever 'prove' such a thing to the russian's satisfaction even if it is them, they can cast doubt on the tests, the collection of samples, they'll say even if you can track it to a known russian agent using a russian developed chemical that it was someone gone rogue. States cannot wait to act on the basis of proving something in a court of law beyond reasonable doubt, which is presumably why we demanded answers once the prima facie evidence pointed in a certain direction, as it would seem use of such a chemical, the target, and previous actions by the russians do.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,605

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....
    Never actually heard of this chap but i see he describes himself as a Historian and human rights activist. Former British Ambassador.
    Make your own mind up:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Murray

    His past is certainly 'colourful'.....
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,100

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    And you had the nerve to call out Plato for her "cut and pastes"!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    He's complaining that the government has been accurate?

    Its a chemical compound of course you can't tell where its been manufactured.....
    Not necessarily true (few chemical products are 100% what they are supposed to be), but given we have no access to the manufacturing facilities, and likely few or no samples of the product, that is likely to be the case here.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018
    Heres your starting research big John conspiracy theorist...left leaning site for you.

    http://hurryupharry.org/2018/03/15/craig-murray-goes-conspiracy-theory-again
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    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,597

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which is why Europe needs to get fracking. Starting yesterday.

    Leaving aside the politics, Russian gas is the cheapest and most consistent supply of gas to Europe. Russia nowadays will undercut any competitive price. The infrastructure was paid for long ago, it's simply the extraction and a minimal transportation cost now. There are alternatives to Russian gas, mainly as LPG, but they are less abundant and more expensive. Doing without Russian gas entirely is difficult for the EU. Nevertheless sanctions force Russia to reduce its prices, so there is a significant cost to those sanctions.

    Why not just slap a 100% tax on Russian gas? It'd enable it to keep flowing while encouraging users to source alternative supplies. Of course, Russia might respond by turning the taps off but that would hardly help their reputation for being the reliable supplier that W Europe is looking for.
    Instead of relying on Russian gas we can buy more LNG from Qatar. Can't see any problems there.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....
    You know its not true do you?

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    Never actually heard of this chap but i see he describes himself as a Historian and human rights activist. Former British Ambassador.

    How do you know he as a nutter please?
    It is well know about Murray, go do your research.

    As for order order, right wing spin sure, below the line is cesspit but he is read across the political spectrum in westminster because his is scoops are overwhelming true.
    Murray is a well known nutter!!

    Was he a nutter when he was British Ambassador or just developed nuttiness
    Go and find out why he is a former British ambassador...he is a well known Julian Assange lacky conspiracy theory nutter.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2018

    Heres your starting research big John conspiracy theorist...left leaning site for you.

    http://hurryupharry.org/2018/03/15/craig-murray-goes-conspiracy-theory-again

    He is of the right, therefore a liar, and probably a zionist. Or something.

    [left leaning??]
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. B, but where do they stand relative to Mercedes?

    If that breakdown is accurate then Red Bull will do well in Australia. Especially if the early forecast comes true and it's wet.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited March 2018
    Freggles said:

    At the same time, she's a pretty useless campaigner, who often gets the tone wrong and who has made a series of unforced political errors, including the humdinger of GE2017. So a better PM than she is public-facing politician or manager of her party.

    Whereas Corbyn is a much better campaigner than manager (either of his party, or, presumably, anything else...)
    So May as PM for 4 years with no further general election campaign and Corbyn as leader of the opposition without yet having any actual power and responsibility over the country hsving secured his position in the last campaign suits them both quite well
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    He's complaining that the government has been accurate?

    Its a chemical compound of course you can't tell where its been manufactured.....not like a radioisotope where there's a good chance you can narrow down its source......but why not throw in the Jews Israel for good measure.....they've got previous for murdering former Russian spies, surely?
    I don't think that's entirely correct. It's unlikely to be 100% pure, so you might find traces of precursors that give a clue as to how it was produced, which would indicate that certain facilities with known equipments and supplies are more likely than others.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    And you know the stuff it spouts is not true because?

    I'm not about to trust Order Order as gospel, but there is a marked difference between partisan spin and conspiracy theory nonsense. Assessing source to a degree is reasonable, it is the height of absurdity to pluck any random purported fact and go 'well, you don't know that isn't true, do you?'

    The first I have ever heard of Murray is today, so I go in with no preconceptions, and he seems to be focusing on a single set of words which may or may not be particularly significant, but even if it is he has extrapolated it out to a massive conspiracy (he at points seems to want us to trust toe OPCW as having seen Russian facilities, but later suggests they are untrustworthy as we are seeking to get them to pre agree a line, with the implication they will do so - therefore he has already decided to dismiss what they announce, if it is not what he likes) as well as what appears to be inconsequential details about Israel. Relying on forumulating such a conspiratorial conclusion mostly off the back of interpreting a few words strikes me as putting a lot of eggs in that basket. It is also funny how he presents his position as until this week near universal among experts, and yet apparently most of them have fallen prey to the propaganda I guess.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....
    You know its not true do you?

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    Never actually heard of this chap but i see he describes himself as a Historian and human rights activist. Former British Ambassador.

    How do you know he as a nutter please?
    It is well know about Murray, go do your research.

    As for order order, right wing spin sure, below the line is cesspit but he is read across the political spectrum in westminster because his is scoops are overwhelming true.
    Murray is a well known nutter!!

    Was he a nutter when he was British Ambassador or just developed nuttiness
    Well it is worth wondering if he went over to the dark side before or after he left the FCO. His actions while in post were...interesting!

    I see the Arsenal are off to CSKA Moscow. Should be entertaining. Perhaps Jezza may like to go and support his team, either of them :)

    I note LCFC loanee Ahmed Musa scored to get CSKA Moscow through.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    Craig Murray was strongly supported by Daniel Hannan when he was dismissed. Just saying...
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    Sean_F said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
    They retained their other two seats last night
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491
    edited March 2018

    Mr. B, but where do they stand relative to Mercedes?

    If that breakdown is accurate then Red Bull will do well in Australia. Especially if the early forecast comes true and it's wet.

    Slower, Mr.D.
    If Chandhok's observations are accurate, the Mercedes is both nimble and fast.

    Australia tends to be a speed track, so I'm not sure how it favours Red Bull over Ferrari.
    (Rain, of course, would be an equaliser.)
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    It's a natural Conservative ward, I believe.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910
    kle4 said:

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    And you know the stuff it spouts is not true because?

    I'm not about to trust Order Order as gospel, but there is a marked difference between partisan spin and conspiracy theory nonsense. Assessing source to a degree is reasonable, it is the height of absurdity to pluck any random purported fact and go 'well, you don't know that isn't true, do you?'

    The first I have ever heard of Murray is today, so I go in with no preconceptions, and he seems to be focusing on a single set of words which may or may not be particularly significant, but even if it is he has extrapolated it out to a massive conspiracy (he at points seems to want us to trust toe OPCW as having seen Russian facilities, but later suggests they are untrustworthy as we are seeking to get them to pre agree a line, with the implication they will do so - therefore he has already decided to dismiss what they announce, if it is not what he likes) as well as what appears to be inconsequential details about Israel. Relying on forumulating such a conspiratorial conclusion mostly off the back of interpreting a few words strikes me as putting a lot of eggs in that basket. It is also funny how he presents his position as until this week near universal among experts, and yet apparently most of them have fallen prey to the propaganda I guess.
    Have to love the way he chucks in Israel halfway down the page.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491
    The pineapple wars continue, the vile fruit now offending the Koreans:
    https://slate.com/technology/2018/03/in-defense-of-twitter-backlashes-against-culinary-appropriation.html?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    When he isn't jacking off horses, your uncle subs for the DM.

    https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/974575730641244161

    Hahaha - brilliant on so many levels!

    (I haven't lowered myself to buy it, so this is just hearsay, but one of the comments to Mance's twitter notes that the DM still has "Newspaper of the Year" in it's masthead. Not that they're sore or anything.)
    Latest circulation figures show the Mail has lost its crown to...the Metro!

    Interesting to see that the FT outsells the Guardian. And the Evening Standard is 6th most widely read in the country.

    All papers continue to lose (physical) circulation numbers, although the free ones are broadly static.
    The Mail is now available on line at £9.99 per month with copy released nightly at 11.00pm. My newsagent said he was seeing a large number of cancellations of deliveries when I cancelled mine and went on line. By the way I would not be too fussed to continue with it but my wife loves the puzzles
    You can get The Guardian on-line for free - just saying. :smile:
    Mail is still free on-line - I use it mainly to keep up with the kardashians :)
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....
    You know its not true do you?

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    Never actually heard of this chap but i see he describes himself as a Historian and human rights activist. Former British Ambassador.

    How do you know he as a nutter please?
    It is well know about Murray, go do your research.

    As for order order, right wing spin sure, below the line is cesspit but he is read across the political spectrum in westminster because his scoops are overwhelming true. I also post links from guardian etc ie reputable sources
    Overwhelmingly true made me chuckle.
    Guido is read because his scoops are damaging and often hard to disprove.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    edited March 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    And you know the stuff it spouts is not true because?

    I'm not about to trust Order Order as gospel, but there is a marked difference between partisan spin and conspiracy theory nonsense. Assessing source to a degree is reasonable, it is the height of absurdity to pluck any random purported fact and go 'well, you don't know that isn't true, do you?'

    The first I have ever heard of Murray is today, so I go in with no preconceptions, and he seems to be focusing on a single set of words which may or may not be particularly significant, but even if it is he has extrapolated it out to a massive conspiracy (he at points seems to want us to trust toe OPCW as having seen Russian facilities, but later suggests they are untrustworthy as we are seeking to get them to pre agree a line, with the implication they will do so - therefore he has already decided to dismiss what they announce, if it is not what he likes) as well as what appears to be inconsequential details about Israel. Relying on forumulating such a conspiratorial conclusion mostly off the back of interpreting a few words strikes me as putting a lot of eggs in that basket. It is also funny how he presents his position as until this week near universal among experts, and yet apparently most of them have fallen prey to the propaganda I guess.
    Have to love the way he chucks in Israel halfway down the page.
    Yes indeed. Ok, let's say they can manufacture this stuff too - what possible reason would they have for being behind it? Not everyone believes the Russian state would want to do it, but it is at least somewhat plausible to suspect them (former traitor, they don't care if people know they did it so long as it cannot be proven 100%, they have done it before) even if it turns out it was somebody rogue or something. (Murray apparently argues that if it looks like Russians, it's because Israel wants to damage Russia)
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    Theresa May's ratings and image as PM have been a roller-coaster ride. She went from being absurdly over-praised in late 2016 and early 2017, to being unfairly vilified during and after the GE2017 campaign. What we are seeing now is a reversion to something like a sensible mean: clearly she's a decent woman working very hard for Britain in the extremely difficult circumstances of Brexit, and someone whom you can rely on in crises like the current one. At the same time, she's a pretty useless campaigner, who often gets the tone wrong and who has made a series of unforced political errors, including the humdinger of GE2017. So a better PM than she is public-facing politician or manager of her party.

    Although one hesitates to make any firm predictions in the current environment, I think Tory MPs broadly accept this analysis, and I continue to think that by far the most likely outcome is that she will retire with honour before the next election, having done her duty (very important to her) by delivering Brexit and stepping in to fill the post-Cameron void. The party will be able to thank her for her good work, and move on to someone younger and better at actually winning elections.

    For that matter, would she really want to put herself through the ordeal of any election campaign, knowing how disastrously she performed last time and having no-one to blame but herself? Obviously we can't look into her mind, and my only personal knowledge of her is one conversation with her, but I'd think not.

    +!001
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    edited March 2018

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which is why Europe needs to get fracking. Starting yesterday.

    Leaving aside the politics, Russian gas is the cheapest and most consistent supply of gas to Europe. Russia nowadays will undercut any competitive price. The infrastructure was paid for long ago, it's simply the extraction and a minimal transportation cost now. There are alternatives to Russian gas, mainly as LPG, but they are less abundant and more expensive. Doing without Russian gas entirely is difficult for the EU. Nevertheless sanctions force Russia to reduce its prices, so there is a significant cost to those sanctions.

    Why not just slap a 100% tax on Russian gas? It'd enable it to keep flowing while encouraging users to source alternative supplies. Of course, Russia might respond by turning the taps off but that would hardly help their reputation for being the reliable supplier that W Europe is looking for.
    Instead of relying on Russian gas we can buy more LNG from Qatar. Can't see any problems there.
    We would be competing with Asian countries on the spot markets for that LNG. I think spot prices for LNG is four times higher currently than that of piped Russian gas, which is available in effectively unlimited quantities.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-lng/asia-spot-prices-climb-to-three-year-high-on-winter-demand-idUSKBN1F825V
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,846

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    And you had the nerve to call out Plato for her "cut and pastes"!
    Did I?

    I dont recall doing that I liked Ms Plato
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    felix said:

    When he isn't jacking off horses, your uncle subs for the DM.

    https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/974575730641244161

    Hahaha - brilliant on so many levels!

    (I haven't lowered myself to buy it, so this is just hearsay, but one of the comments to Mance's twitter notes that the DM still has "Newspaper of the Year" in it's masthead. Not that they're sore or anything.)
    Latest circulation figures show the Mail has lost its crown to...the Metro!

    Interesting to see that the FT outsells the Guardian. And the Evening Standard is 6th most widely read in the country.

    All papers continue to lose (physical) circulation numbers, although the free ones are broadly static.
    The Mail is now available on line at £9.99 per month with copy released nightly at 11.00pm. My newsagent said he was seeing a large number of cancellations of deliveries when I cancelled mine and went on line. By the way I would not be too fussed to continue with it but my wife loves the puzzles
    You can get The Guardian on-line for free - just saying. :smile:
    Mail is still free on-line - I use it mainly to keep up with the kardashians :)
    Yes it is - it is the newspaper itself that is also on line at £9.99 per month released at 11.00 pm each night
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578

    Sean_F said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
    They retained their other two seats last night
    Very safe wards though.

    Interesting that the kippers are not moving exclusively to Con:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/974621936419573761?s=19
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. B, it's not that fast. Not a Monaco by a long shot, either.
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    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
    They retained their other two seats last night
    Very safe wards though.

    Interesting that the kippers are not moving exclusively to Con:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/974621936419573761?s=19
    I am not at all sure they ever have
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018
    rkrkrk said:

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....
    You know its not true do you?

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    Never actually heard of this chap but i see he describes himself as a Historian and human rights activist. Former British Ambassador.

    How do you know he as a nutter please?
    It is well know about Murray, go do your research.

    As for order order, right wing spin sure, below the line is cesspit but he is read across the political spectrum in westminster because his scoops are overwhelming true. I also post links from guardian etc ie reputable sources
    Overwhelmingly true made me chuckle.
    Guido is read because his scoops are damaging and often hard to disprove.
    I take a lot of the tittle tattle with a pinch of salt and obviously he is right wing leave supporting, but when he goes for somebody it isn’t just hard to disprove, he normally has them done up like a kipper. Mcbride, huhne, antisemitic twattering etc.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,846

    Sean_F said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
    They retained their other two seats last night
    Thought they gained the Redcar ward? Was it not Independent?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which is why Europe needs to get fracking. Starting yesterday.

    Leaving aside the politics, Russian gas is the cheapest and most consistent supply of gas to Europe. Russia nowadays will undercut any competitive price. The infrastructure was paid for long ago, it's simply the extraction and a minimal transportation cost now. There are alternatives to Russian gas, mainly as LPG, but they are less abundant and more expensive. Doing without Russian gas entirely is difficult for the EU. Nevertheless sanctions force Russia to reduce its prices, so there is a significant cost to those sanctions.

    Why not just slap a 100% tax on Russian gas? It'd enable it to keep flowing while encouraging users to source alternative supplies. Of course, Russia might respond by turning the taps off but that would hardly help their reputation for being the reliable supplier that W Europe is looking for.
    Instead of relying on Russian gas we can buy more LNG from Qatar. Can't see any problems there.
    We would be competing with Asian countries on the spot markets for that LNG. I think spot prices for LNG is four times higher currently than that of piped Russian gas, which is available in effectively unlimited quantities.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-global-lng/asia-spot-prices-climb-to-three-year-high-on-winter-demand-idUSKBN1F825V
    Buy it from Australia, where LNG production is surging to become the number one exporter shortly:

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/06/australia-gas-exports-surge-new-projects-on-tap
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    Sean_F said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
    They retained their other two seats last night
    Thought they gained the Redcar ward? Was it not Independent?
    Yes they did as well
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    felix said:

    When he isn't jacking off horses, your uncle subs for the DM.

    https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/974575730641244161

    Hahaha - brilliant on so many levels!

    (I haven't lowered myself to buy it, so this is just hearsay, but one of the comments to Mance's twitter notes that the DM still has "Newspaper of the Year" in it's masthead. Not that they're sore or anything.)
    Latest circulation figures show the Mail has lost its crown to...the Metro!

    Interesting to see that the FT outsells the Guardian. And the Evening Standard is 6th most widely read in the country.

    All papers continue to lose (physical) circulation numbers, although the free ones are broadly static.
    The Mail is now available on line at £9.99 per month with copy released nightly at 11.00pm. My newsagent said he was seeing a large number of cancellations of deliveries when I cancelled mine and went on line. By the way I would not be too fussed to continue with it but my wife loves the puzzles
    You can get The Guardian on-line for free - just saying. :smile:
    Mail is still free on-line - I use it mainly to keep up with the kardashians :)
    Yes it is - it is the newspaper itself that is also on line at £9.99 per month released at 11.00 pm each night
    Why pay £120 a year for something that is already free?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018
    Boris on the bbc - “We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his (Putin) decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”

    That is a very big claim. I am surprised they have made such a direct claim as it is a bigger than the Russian state had him polished off, where that still slows for an agent overstepping the mark etc.

    It being boris I wonder if he was supposed to say that? Or if he has done a boris
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,578

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
    They retained their other two seats last night
    Very safe wards though.

    Interesting that the kippers are not moving exclusively to Con:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/974621936419573761?s=19
    I am not at all sure they ever have
    Con only gaining a third of kippers on the NE coast suggests that a Brexit boost may well be a mirage.

    The May Locals will be interesting in such volatile times.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2018

    Foxy said:

    Sean_F said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    Notwithstanding last week, the Conservatives have had quite a good run in local by-elections, this year, for a government. They've won 29 out of 59, a net loss of two.
    They retained their other two seats last night
    Very safe wards though.

    Interesting that the kippers are not moving exclusively to Con:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/974621936419573761?s=19
    I am not at all sure they ever have
    If the bit in the brackets is the change since last time, how was IND in the lead previously? Am I having a special moment here? I get CON on 25% and the IND in the low 20%s.

    It also looks like UKIP broke for LDEM, which is a bit mental.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,846
    Another nutter making similar claims to that Murray nutter.

    Good job we have our very own FU on nutter watch

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce
  • Options
    Jonathan said:

    felix said:

    When he isn't jacking off horses, your uncle subs for the DM.

    https://twitter.com/henrymance/status/974575730641244161

    Hahaha - brilliant on so many levels!

    (I haven't lowered myself to buy it, so this is just hearsay, but one of the comments to Mance's twitter notes that the DM still has "Newspaper of the Year" in it's masthead. Not that they're sore or anything.)
    Latest circulation figures show the Mail has lost its crown to...the Metro!

    Interesting to see that the FT outsells the Guardian. And the Evening Standard is 6th most widely read in the country.

    All papers continue to lose (physical) circulation numbers, although the free ones are broadly static.
    The Mail is now available on line at £9.99 per month with copy released nightly at 11.00pm. My newsagent said he was seeing a large number of cancellations of deliveries when I cancelled mine and went on line. By the way I would not be too fussed to continue with it but my wife loves the puzzles
    You can get The Guardian on-line for free - just saying. :smile:
    Mail is still free on-line - I use it mainly to keep up with the kardashians :)
    Yes it is - it is the newspaper itself that is also on line at £9.99 per month released at 11.00 pm each night
    Why pay £120 a year for something that is already free?
    You are confusing mail on line with the actual newspaper. They are not the same and it is half the cost of receiving it through the letter box each day.

    This recent move to the newspaper itself on line must account for a drop in circulation of the hard copies
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Thinking about it a bit more, it does seem quite likely that after the Litvinenko murder the goverment would develop a nuclear and chemical tracing programme just in case Russia tried it again. Perhaps Russia didn't consider the Dstl having the ability to make a fast determination as to the source of radiological and chemical attacks.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,597
    Freggles said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    It's a natural Conservative ward, I believe.
    I was just thinking that there can't be too many redundant steelworkers living in that ward.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,846

    Boris on the bbc - “We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his (Putin) decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”

    Talking of nutters!!!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018

    Another nutter making similar claims to that Murray nutter.

    Good job we have our very own FU on nutter watch

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce

    You post so much fake news on here these days somebody has to provide checks and balances.

    Didn’t this guy get sacked by the guardian?
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Boris on the bbc - “We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his (Putin) decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”

    That is a very big claim. I am surprised they have made such a direct claim as it is a bigger than the Russian state had him polished off, where that still slows for an agent overstepping the mark etc.

    It being boris I wonder if he was supposed to say that? Or if he has done a boris

    I'm fairly sure I heard him say something much like that on Wednesday morning.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Boris on the bbc - “We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his (Putin) decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”

    That is a very big claim. I am surprised they have made such a direct claim as it is a bigger than the Russian state had him polished off, where that still slows for an agent overstepping the mark etc.

    It being boris I wonder if he was supposed to say that? Or if he has done a boris

    @samanthaTVnews: #Breaking the #Kremlin says @BorisJohnson allegation that #Putin was involved in the nerve agent attack on #Skripal is "shocking and unforgiveable"
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited March 2018

    Another nutter making similar claims to that Murray nutter.

    Good job we have our very own FU on nutter watch

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce

    From the same chap "Facebook will infiltrate elections and rule the world in 10 years"
    https://www.insurgeintelligence.com/deep-state/2017/12/23/facebook-a-danger-to-democracy

    Also "Brace for the oil, food and financial crash of 2018. 80% of the world’s oil has peaked, and the resulting oil crunch will flatten the economy"
    https://www.insurgeintelligence.com/energy/2017/12/02/brace-for-the-oil-food-and-financial-crash-of-2018

    Either mad or a clickbait artist.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491

    Mr. B, it's not that fast. Not a Monaco by a long shot, either.

    I think, if you check the average lap speed, you'll find it's top quartile.
    (Of course, that's not the only determining factor, but it's a useful metric.)
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,846
    Off to watch Cheltenham hoping to have my first ever 4 winning days Festival.

    Day 1 +£160
    Day 2 +£477
    Day 3 +187
    Day 4 ???? being conservative

    With a small C of course

    See you later
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,017

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    And you had the nerve to call out Plato for her "cut and pastes"!
    Did I?

    I dont recall doing that I liked Ms Plato
    Perhaps MM thought 'it overwhelmingly likely' that you had a go at Plato. Same thing innit.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018
    Anorak said:

    Another nutter making similar claims to that Murray nutter.

    Good job we have our very own FU on nutter watch

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce

    From the same chap "Facebook will infiltrate elections and rule the world in 10 years"
    https://www.insurgeintelligence.com/deep-state/2017/12/23/facebook-a-danger-to-democracy

    Also "Brace for the oil, food and financial crash of 2018. 80% of the world’s oil has peaked, and the resulting oil crunch will flatten the economy"
    https://www.insurgeintelligence.com/energy/2017/12/02/brace-for-the-oil-food-and-financial-crash-of-2018

    Either mad or a clickbait artist.
    Another one of BJO reputatable sources...sadly predictable these days.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    edited March 2018

    Another nutter making similar claims to that Murray nutter.

    Good job we have our very own FU on nutter watch

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce

    Which among other things suggests Israel, the USA or we ourselves are responsible for this through losing control of the agent, all of which relies on ignoring who the target was, and Russian culpability in another high profile assassination using complex materials in the UK (which it says Murray actually accepts).

    It is surely the culmination of various factors, including the nature of the chemical, which has led to Russia being a subject, you cannot just say 'Oh america has the chemical too, maybe they lost control of it to...somebody...who would attack the guyfor...reasons'. The preponderance of the evidence (inasmuch as we are told about it), potential motivations and the method, do not make it unreasonable to suspect Russia, and simply pointing the finger at anyone else who may have chemical weapons is not exactly compelling argument against such weight. I for one do not rule out anything, but focusing on one (albeit important) reasons suspicion has fallen on Russia and ignoring the other reason it makes sense, well, doesn't make much sense to me.

    And in any case we have not overreacted despite our belief in what we think Russia has done, so the defence of mealy louthed statements warning us not to overreact are in themselves premature and silly.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    kle4 said:

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    Oh god, you are now on an even nuttier site than squawkbox....

    Still you post loads of stuff from Order Order which is king of nuttiness.

    And you know the stuff it spouts is not true because?

    I'm not about to trust Order Order as gospel, but there is a marked difference between partisan spin and conspiracy theory nonsense. Assessing source to a degree is reasonable, it is the height of absurdity to pluck any random purported fact and go 'well, you don't know that isn't true, do you?'

    The first I have ever heard of Murray is today, so I go in with no preconceptions, and he seems to be focusing on a single set of words which may or may not be particularly significant, but even if it is he has extrapolated it out to a massive conspiracy (he at points seems to want us to trust toe OPCW as having seen Russian facilities, but later suggests they are untrustworthy as we are seeking to get them to pre agree a line, with the implication they will do so - therefore he has already decided to dismiss what they announce, if it is not what he likes) as well as what appears to be inconsequential details about Israel. Relying on forumulating such a conspiratorial conclusion mostly off the back of interpreting a few words strikes me as putting a lot of eggs in that basket. It is also funny how he presents his position as until this week near universal among experts, and yet apparently most of them have fallen prey to the propaganda I guess.
    Have to love the way he chucks in Israel halfway down the page.
    Yes indeed. Ok, let's say they can manufacture this stuff too - what possible reason would they have for being behind it? Not everyone believes the Russian state would want to do it, but it is at least somewhat plausible to suspect them (former traitor, they don't care if people know they did it so long as it cannot be proven 100%, they have done it before) even if it turns out it was somebody rogue or something. (Murray apparently argues that if it looks like Russians, it's because Israel wants to damage Russia)
    The only other rational explanation for me is that it was instigated by a faction in the Kremlin without Putin's approval, or even prior knowledge - which is slightly unlikely, but by no means inconceivable.
    That would still be effectively state action, though.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. B, genuinely surprised by that.

    Mr. P, cheers for that.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited March 2018
    Nigelb said:

    The only other rational explanation for me is that it was instigated by a faction in the Kremlin without Putin's approval, or even prior knowledge - which is slightly unlikely, but by no means inconceivable.
    That would still be effectively state action, though.

    The behaviour of the Russian government since the attack proves beyond almost any reasonable doubt that it was done with Putin's knowledge and approval.

    Of course that hasn't stopped Seumas Milne going back to his old job of writing Guardian articles in support of Russian dictators, even though the most recent one is written under Corbyn's name.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    Negotiators on each side pushing their negotiating positions hard? Well, it is technically news in that is a thing that happens.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491
    edited March 2018

    Interesting piece could backfire on Ms indecisive who decided to be decisive on Russia if true.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2018/03/of-a-type-developed-by-liars/

    And you had the nerve to call out Plato for her "cut and pastes"!
    Did I?

    I dont recall doing that I liked Ms Plato
    Perhaps MM thought 'it overwhelmingly likely' that you had a go at Plato. Same thing innit.
    I'm not sure that "I don't recall doing that; I liked the Skripals" was quite Putin's account of things....
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717
    Scott_P said:

    Boris on the bbc - “We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his (Putin) decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”

    That is a very big claim. I am surprised they have made such a direct claim as it is a bigger than the Russian state had him polished off, where that still slows for an agent overstepping the mark etc.

    It being boris I wonder if he was supposed to say that? Or if he has done a boris

    @samanthaTVnews: #Breaking the #Kremlin says @BorisJohnson allegation that #Putin was involved in the nerve agent attack on #Skripal is "shocking and unforgiveable"
    Oh they'll have loved it. He loves when the West accuses him of things, and he can posture back at them.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018

    Nigelb said:

    The only other rational explanation for me is that it was instigated by a faction in the Kremlin without Putin's approval, or even prior knowledge - which is slightly unlikely, but by no means inconceivable.
    That would still be effectively state action, though.

    The behaviour of the Russian government since the attack proves beyond almost any reasonable doubt that it was done with Putin's knowledge and approval.
    If true, rather than putin say asking for security services to find and neutralise “traitors” to send a message. I wonder why this particular guy.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,846

    Another nutter making similar claims to that Murray nutter.

    Good job we have our very own FU on nutter watch

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce

    You post so much fake news on here these days somebody has to provide checks and balances.

    Didn’t this guy get sacked by the guardian?
    Its great to have my own "overwhelmingly likely" fact checker though.

    When is a fact not a fact when its overwhelmingly likely or are you the overwhelmingly true chap I get a bit mixed up.

    Anyway I fancy our duke if going is heavy.
  • Options

    Off to watch Cheltenham hoping to have my first ever 4 winning days Festival.

    Day 1 +£160
    Day 2 +£477
    Day 3 +187
    Day 4 ???? being conservative

    With a small C of course

    See you later

    Good luck
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,709
    Freggles said:

    Conservatives gain Redcar from Independent

    It's a natural Conservative ward, I believe.
    UKIP vote splitting between Con and LibDem?

    CON: 32.7% (+7.1)
    LDEM: 26.3% (+12.3)
    LAB: 22.3% (+4.0)
    IND: 18.7% (-3.6)

    Conservative GAIN from Independent.
    No UKIP (-19.8) as prev.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491
    Scott_P said:

    Boris on the bbc - “We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his (Putin) decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”

    That is a very big claim. I am surprised they have made such a direct claim as it is a bigger than the Russian state had him polished off, where that still slows for an agent overstepping the mark etc.

    It being boris I wonder if he was supposed to say that? Or if he has done a boris

    @samanthaTVnews: #Breaking the #Kremlin says @BorisJohnson allegation that #Putin was involved in the nerve agent attack on #Skripal is "shocking and unforgiveable"
    'Cos they've never done anything remotely like that before ...?
    Shocking.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Scott_P said:

    Boris on the bbc - “We think it overwhelmingly likely that it was his (Putin) decision to direct the use of a nerve agent on the streets of the UK.”

    That is a very big claim. I am surprised they have made such a direct claim as it is a bigger than the Russian state had him polished off, where that still slows for an agent overstepping the mark etc.

    It being boris I wonder if he was supposed to say that? Or if he has done a boris

    @samanthaTVnews: #Breaking the #Kremlin says @BorisJohnson allegation that #Putin was involved in the nerve agent attack on #Skripal is "shocking and unforgiveable"
    Awww diddums. Poor ickle Putin is shocked.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited March 2018

    Another nutter making similar claims to that Murray nutter.

    Good job we have our very own FU on nutter watch

    https://medium.com/insurge-intelligence/the-british-governments-russia-nerve-agent-claims-are-bullshit-a69b4ee484ce

    You post so much fake news on here these days somebody has to provide checks and balances.

    Didn’t this guy get sacked by the guardian?
    Its great to have my own "overwhelmingly likely" fact checker though.

    When is a fact not a fact when its overwhelmingly likely or are you the overwhelmingly true chap I get a bit mixed up.

    Anyway I fancy our duke if going is heavy.
    You are being caught time and time again posting fake news and links to articles to extremely dubious individuals. Perhaps try sourcing from reputable outlets and staying off the conspiracy / fake news sites.

    You have turned into the left wing version of Plato.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which is why Europe needs to get fracking. Starting yesterday.

    Leaving aside the politics, Russian gas is the cheapest and most consistent supply of gas to Europe. Russia nowadays will undercut any competitive price. The infrastructure was paid for long ago, it's simply the extraction and a minimal transportation cost now. There are alternatives to Russian gas, mainly as LPG, but they are less abundant and more expensive. Doing without Russian gas entirely is difficult for the EU. Nevertheless sanctions force Russia to reduce its prices, so there is a significant cost to those sanctions.

    Why not just slap a 100% tax on Russian gas? It'd enable it to keep flowing while encouraging users to source alternative supplies. Of course, Russia might respond by turning the taps off but that would hardly help their reputation for being the reliable supplier that W Europe is looking for.
    Instead of relying on Russian gas we can buy more LNG from Qatar. Can't see any problems there.
    Fewer problems. Qatar is not destabilising Eastern Europe and has no interest in doing so.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717

    Nigelb said:

    The only other rational explanation for me is that it was instigated by a faction in the Kremlin without Putin's approval, or even prior knowledge - which is slightly unlikely, but by no means inconceivable.
    That would still be effectively state action, though.

    The behaviour of the Russian government since the attack proves beyond almost any reasonable doubt that it was done with Putin's knowledge and approval.
    .
    Well I could believe it wasn't but that they'd react similarly on the basis of the accusations would still be against the russian state in effect. But be it official or unofficial we'll never know unfortunately. What is vital is that just because multiple theories exist, not all are as plausible as one another, particularly when considering who was attacked, and it is unreasonable to expect beyond reasonable doubt proof, but that does not mean we take as gospel all statements we ever hear, those are not the only two options here.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Herdson, isn't Qatar still being largely cut off by its immediate neighbours?
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,017
    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,717

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.

    It would certainly take a creative approach, given that comment.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCLBicker: And so begins another Friday in Washington.. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/974626367185870849
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908



    I take a lot of the tittle tattle with a pinch of salt and obviously he is right wing leave supporting, but when he goes for somebody it isn’t just hard to disprove, he normally has them done up like a kipper. Mcbride, huhne, antisemitic twattering etc.

    Did he have anything to do with Huhne? I thought that was Mail on Sunday.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCLBicker: And so begins another Friday in Washington.. twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/974626367185870849

    Will all the growns up be gone by Monday?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.

    Never mind Mussolini. This is what will get PBers hot under the collar:
    https://twitter.com/redlightvoices/status/974591211775373312
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    kle4 said:

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.

    It would certainly take a creative approach, given that comment.
    Well at least Musso's uniform didn't have skulls on it, so he couldn't have really been a baddie.
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    AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    kle4 said:

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.

    It would certainly take a creative approach, given that comment.
    "That whole thing with the uniforms" is comedy gold.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    rkrkrk said:



    I take a lot of the tittle tattle with a pinch of salt and obviously he is right wing leave supporting, but when he goes for somebody it isn’t just hard to disprove, he normally has them done up like a kipper. Mcbride, huhne, antisemitic twattering etc.

    Did he have anything to do with Huhne? I thought that was Mail on Sunday.
    Yes he did. He chased a number of leads that showed huhne had to be lying. Also remember he makes most of his money from selling stuff to the likes of the mail.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    FF43 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which is why Europe needs to get fracking. Starting yesterday.

    Leaving aside the politics, Russian gas is the cheapest and most consistent supply of gas to Europe. Russia nowadays will undercut any competitive price. The infrastructure was paid for long ago, it's simply the extraction and a minimal transportation cost now. There are alternatives to Russian gas, mainly as LPG, but they are less abundant and more expensive. Doing without Russian gas entirely is difficult for the EU. Nevertheless sanctions force Russia to reduce its prices, so there is a significant cost to those sanctions.

    Why not just slap a 100% tax on Russian gas? It'd enable it to keep flowing while encouraging users to source alternative supplies. Of course, Russia might respond by turning the taps off but that would hardly help their reputation for being the reliable supplier that W Europe is looking for.
    Instead of relying on Russian gas we can buy more LNG from Qatar. Can't see any problems there.
    The US is bringing several more LNG terminals on stream over the next couple of years. I'm sure Robert will know more.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited March 2018
    Anorak said:

    "That whole thing with the uniforms" is comedy gold.

    Someone noted this morning the only thing separating Trump from a tinpot dictator is the uniform and chest full of medal ribbons
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,297

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.

    Never mind Mussolini. This is what will get PBers hot under the collar:
    https://twitter.com/redlightvoices/status/974591211775373312
    Rees-Mogg needs to issue a statement saying he regrets his meeting with Bannon and that a research lapse meant he wasn't aware of his true views. Rees-Mogg got into trouble before when he addressed that dinner of a pro-apartheid group. Fraternizing with a Mussolini worshipper will cause people to ask further questions.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,491

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    ....

    How very SeanT...

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. P, and that Trump won an election.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Mr. Herdson, isn't Qatar still being largely cut off by its immediate neighbours?

    Last I saw, yes, there was a little local difficulty there. to be honest, I'm not particularly fussed which Gulf state we buy LPG from other than Iran. They're all happy enough to sell oil. Obviously, we shouldn't get too dependent there either - governments can change. Iran was a good friend to the West once.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/george_osborne/status/974638588058054656

    The intelligence services must have evidence of this, otherwise boris doing a boris will be a step too far in such a serious situation.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,182
    Scott_P said:

    Anorak said:

    "That whole thing with the uniforms" is comedy gold.

    Someone noted this morning the only thing separating Trump from a tinpot dictator is the uniform and chest full of medal ribbons
    ...and the American constitution. Thank God.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,182

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCLBicker: And so begins another Friday in Washington.. twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/974626367185870849

    Will all the growns up be gone by Monday?
    We are doomed if Kelly is going.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,182
    Axios saying John Bolton may be back in office:

    https://www.axios.com/trumps-cabinet-of-peers-1521195768-fd995175-1c10-4911-9998-df4c32365247.html

    Get to your shelters...
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    Gas pipeline economics are that you have a big supply of gas at one end and a big demand at the other. Suppliers push as much gas as possible into the pipeline and can offer a relatively good price per MMBtu because they are interested in the total revenue. The customer has little interest in sourcing gas elsewhere because that becomes an additional cost.

    The only real alternatives to Russian sourced gas for Europe in terms of quantity and price is gas piped in from the shared Iran/Qatar gas field, Azerbaijan or Algeria. The first has to be piped via Iran and Turkey and the second via Turkey if it's to avoid Russia, which wants to stymie all alternatives to its supply. Azerbaijan, Algeria and to some extent Turkey and Iran are unreliable partners.

    If we want to isolate Russia we need to pick our enemies as that means doing a deal with Iran. It also means a marriage of interests with a very autocratic Turkey. Signing up both Algeria and Iran as alternatives to Russian gas does make strategic sense.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCLBicker: And so begins another Friday in Washington.. twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/974626367185870849

    Will all the growns up be gone by Monday?
    We are doomed if Kelly is going.
    thank god for those slave owning racist blokes from the old days....
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.

    Never mind Mussolini. This is what will get PBers hot under the collar:
    https://twitter.com/redlightvoices/status/974591211775373312

    Breitbart London was launched in February 2014
    Cameron's Bloomberg Speech, promising an In-Out referendum was given on 23 January 2013.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Some news from yesterday's (hopefully) man. I genuinely thought this was a piss take of Bannon when I first read it.

    https://twitter.com/Joannechocolat/status/974592396926312448

    How well I remember those halcyon days when various PBers were arguing Bannon wasn't a Fascist or racist.

    Never mind Mussolini. This is what will get PBers hot under the collar:
    https://twitter.com/redlightvoices/status/974591211775373312

    Breitbart London was launched in February 2014
    Cameron's Bloomberg Speech, promising an In-Out referendum was given on 23 January 2013.
    And Cameron's Bloomberg speech didn't mention immigration...
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    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/george_osborne/status/974638588058054656

    The intelligence services must have evidence of this, otherwise boris doing a boris will be a step too far in such a serious situation.
    Post-Iraq, who trusts a word that politicians say, especially the Blond Buffoon? Given a history of lies to the UK population, and concealment of chemical weapons tests by Porton Down, I'm not very surprised that even some PB users turn to Murray's blog as an antidote.

    I don't have access behind the FT paywall, but the coverage of the Washington Post and NY Times has been far closer to Corbyn's scepticism than to May's 'certainty'. Some PB fools confuse the words 'not proven', which is what I'd use, with 'innocent'.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Scott_P said:

    @BBCLBicker: And so begins another Friday in Washington.. twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/974626367185870849

    Will all the growns up be gone by Monday?
    We are doomed if Kelly is going.
    thank god for those slave owning racist blokes from the old days....
    At least if Trump decides to say invade North Korea on a whim, the Army will have less reason to do as he asks.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/george_osborne/status/974638588058054656

    The intelligence services must have evidence of this, otherwise boris doing a boris will be a step too far in such a serious situation.
    Post-Iraq, who trusts a word that politicians say, especially the Blond Buffoon? Given a history of lies to the UK population, and concealment of chemical weapons tests by Porton Down, I'm not very surprised that even some PB users turn to Murray's blog as an antidote.

    I don't have access behind the FT paywall, but the coverage of the Washington Post and NY Times has been far closer to Corbyn's scepticism than to May's 'certainty'. Some PB fools confuse the words 'not proven', which is what I'd use, with 'innocent'.
    I read the Washington Post and the New York Times every day and this isn't true at all. The demands of journalistic standards require them to caveat everything, but they do the same for Russian interference in Trump's election. Nothing like the shameless equivocation of Corbyn and Milne. The fact Corbyn overruled his deputy on appearing on the Kremlin's foreign propaganda arm says it all.
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