There are many things we cannot know about this, and uncertainties, and skepticism is a healthy trait,
The government and press has mainly focused on the chemical side of things, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were sources of intelligence that corroborate Russian involvement. But we obviously aren't going to reveal something like Putin's desk has a bug planted in it.
There are many things we cannot know about this, and uncertainties, and skepticism is a healthy trait,
The government and press has mainly focused on the chemical side of things, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were sources of intelligence that corroborate Russian involvement. But we obviously aren't going to reveal something like Putin's desk has a bug planted in it.
I was very surprised boris said it was directly order by putin. That is a specific claim and not one that can be gained from analysis of samples and general intelligence of movement of known agents.
That is quite different from knowledge that putin has ordered secret service to deal with traitors and let them get on with it.
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
Not true. There are several other options other than direct conversions from the Tories.
Not by the looks of my Facebook feed...stupid amount of people arguing nonsense like how would our scientists know what this nerve agent is, if it has never been made outside of Russia.
That's such a stupid argument. You'd never be able to discover anything if that was the case.
It is Alex jones level of conspiracy theory.
I bet you thought those who advocated Iraq had no WMDs were nutters though at the time of Blair's illegal war.
Bit different this time. A chemical attack has taken place and Porton Down identify it as a military grade nerve gas only produced by Russia.
The other reported act is that the National Security Advisors did not give Corbyn access to the full detail given to Theresa May as he is seen as a risk to National security.
As far as Boris is concerned I think he is acting with TM's authority as they both must know the details of the nerve agent origin
Of the type developed in Russia
This is desperate stuff by Corbyn's supporters. He called it wrong, has been found out, and ironically strengthened Theresa May.
I don't know that most Corbyn fans are going down the route of, in essence, saying that they think Russia was not behind it (which is quite clearly what Mr Murray is saying) - since I think his official line is Russia probably did do it, but let us slow down from being too accusatory and overreacting (a line which also makes no sense, since as pointed out plenty of times yesterday which I shall not therefore go into detail on, we have not overreacted, merely reacted).
FU what hard science. Why does the Government keep using the same phrase "of the type developed in Russia" even in the response to Murray on 5 live saying that's all they can say they issued a response using the exact same phrase. This Murray guy could be a nutter as you say but Why don't they say it was made in or sent by or any other phrase??? It makes him look plausible.
John - you are making yourself look very stupid - take a break
Not by the looks of my Facebook feed...stupid amount of people arguing nonsense like how would our scientists know what this nerve agent is, if it has never been made outside of Russia.
That's such a stupid argument. You'd never be able to discover anything if that was the case.
It is Alex jones level of conspiracy theory.
I bet you thought those who advocated Iraq had no WMDs were nutters though at the time of Blair's illegal war.
Bit different this time. A chemical attack has taken place and Porton Down identify it as a military grade nerve gas only produced by Russia.
The other reported act is that the National Security Advisors did not give Corbyn access to the full detail given to Theresa May as he is seen as a risk to National security.
As far as Boris is concerned I think he is acting with TM's authority as they both must know the details of the nerve agent origin
Of the type developed in Russia
You should add prison planet to list of alternative news websites you visit. You will like it over there.
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
Not true. There are several other options other than direct conversions from the Tories.
Non voters from last time no doubt - but are you saying he is not repelling Middle England just now
Not by the looks of my Facebook feed...stupid amount of people arguing nonsense like how would our scientists know what this nerve agent is, if it has never been made outside of Russia.
That's such a stupid argument. You'd never be able to discover anything if that was the case.
It is Alex jones level of conspiracy theory.
I bet you thought those who advocated Iraq had no WMDs were nutters though at the time of Blair's illegal war.
Bit different this time. A chemical attack has taken place and Porton Down identify it as a military grade nerve gas only produced by Russia.
The other reported act is that the National Security Advisors did not give Corbyn access to the full detail given to Theresa May as he is seen as a risk to National security.
As far as Boris is concerned I think he is acting with TM's authority as they both must know the details of the nerve agent origin
Of the type developed in Russia
This is desperate stuff by Corbyn's supporters. He called it wrong, has been found out, and ironically strengthened Theresa May.
Also the IRA, Hamas etc could be described as a long time ago but this is now and in real time for Corbyn and momentum, and it will follow them all the way to the next election
We heard all that with the Islamist attacks in Manchester and London Bridge during the campaign. Yet the Corbyn surge continued.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
Do you really want the Government to reveal such sensitive details to the public?? Are you that naive?
Why do they need to. Why can't they say this nerve agent used in Salisbury was made by Russia or I need anything that points a direct finger.
Anyone listening to Murray on 5 live and accusing the Government of not being able to same more than of a type developed in Russia for 15 mins
Then at the end Nolan reads a response from the Government that uses the exact same phrase just fuels a fire why not snuff it out by saying it came from or was made in?
Don't see how that compromises anyone. Just completely nullifies Murray's arguement
Not by the looks of my Facebook feed...stupid amount of people arguing nonsense like how would our scientists know what this nerve agent is, if it has never been made outside of Russia.
That's such a stupid argument. You'd never be able to discover anything if that was the case.
It is Alex jones level of conspiracy theory.
I bet you thought those who advocated Iraq had no WMDs were nutters though at the time of Blair's illegal war.
Bit different this time. A chemical attack has taken place and Porton Down identify it as a military grade nerve gas only produced by Russia.
The other reported act is that the National Security Advisors did not give Corbyn access to the full detail given to Theresa May as he is seen as a risk to National security.
As far as Boris is concerned I think he is acting with TM's authority as they both must know the details of the nerve agent origin
Of the type developed in Russia
This is desperate stuff by Corbyn's supporters. He called it wrong, has been found out, and ironically strengthened Theresa May.
Also the IRA, Hamas etc could be described as a long time ago but this is now and in real time for Corbyn and momentum, and it will follow them all the way to the next election
We heard all that with the Islamist attacks in Manchester and London Bridge during the campaign. Yet the Corbyn surge continued.
His connection with Russia and his anti west attitudes have been put on full view even to the point he is considered a risk to National security and was apparently excluded from the information provided to TM, and no doubt Boris as foreign secretary
I was very surprised boris said it was directly order by putin. That is a specific claim and not one that can be gained from analysis of samples and general intelligence of movement of known agents.
We don't know why Boris said what he said, but the actions of the UK government suggest they are very confident it was an attack sanctioned by the Russian state, not merely using an agent produced in Russia. A chemical analysis won't tell you that, so something beyond having a motive is likely pointing towards the Kremlin.
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
Not true. There are several other options other than direct conversions from the Tories.
Non voters from last time no doubt - but are you saying he is not repelling Middle England just now
in Harborough and Huntington, quintisential true blue Shire Middle England there were very big gains of 20% ish to take Labour to 30% in 2017. I see no evidence of shifts since. Corbyn is not as unpopular in Middle England as you may imagine, perhaps because of the circles in which you mix.
There is the possibility of better Labour turnout, depressed Tory turnout, demographic change, better tactical voting against the Tories, further squeezing of third parties and former kippers in particular. Tories should not be complacent, and neither should be Labour. At present it is a dead heat.
Not by the looks of my Facebook feed...stupid amount of people arguing nonsense like how would our scientists know what this nerve agent is, if it has never been made outside of Russia.
That's such a stupid argument. You'd never be able to discover anything if that was the case.
It is Alex jones level of conspiracy theory.
I bet you thought those who advocated Iraq had no WMDs were nutters though at the time of Blair's illegal war.
Bit different this time. A chemical attack has taken place and Porton Down identify it as a military grade nerve gas only produced by Russia.
The other reported act is that the National Security Advisors did not give Corbyn access to the full detail given to Theresa May as he is seen as a risk to National security.
As far as Boris is concerned I think he is acting with TM's authority as they both must know the details of the nerve agent origin
Of the type developed in Russia
This is desperate stuff by Corbyn's supporters. He called it wrong, has been found out, and ironically strengthened Theresa May.
Also the IRA, Hamas etc could be described as a long time ago but this is now and in real time for Corbyn and momentum, and it will follow them all the way to the next election
We heard all that with the Islamist attacks in Manchester and London Bridge during the campaign. Yet the Corbyn surge continued.
This is a very different type of event. It is an attack by a member of the UN Security Council and the G8 on a UK resident using chemical agents. That is why it is resonating more.
The problem of a radicalised minority is very different to an attack by a nation state.
OK today's poll showed Labour holding steady. The YouGov from the same period showed a drop of 4 points. It is too early to be certain what the direction of travel really is.
However it is beyond question that the internal struggles within the PLP have come to the fore for the first time in a long time. Shadow ministers have been refusing to follow the Corbyn line.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
I was very surprised boris said it was directly order by putin. That is a specific claim and not one that can be gained from analysis of samples and general intelligence of movement of known agents.
We don't know why Boris said what he said, but the actions of the UK government suggest they are very confident it was an attack sanctioned by the Russian state, not merely using an agent produced in Russia. A chemical analysis won't tell you that, so something beyond having a motive is likely pointing towards the Kremlin.
Sure. I just thought it was interesting and it clearly wasn’t a boris being boris as the government were happy with the statement.
I was very surprised boris said it was directly order by putin. That is a specific claim and not one that can be gained from analysis of samples and general intelligence of movement of known agents.
We don't know why Boris said what he said, but the actions of the UK government suggest they are very confident it was an attack sanctioned by the Russian state, not merely using an agent produced in Russia. A chemical analysis won't tell you that, so something beyond having a motive is likely pointing towards the Kremlin.
May and Boris are very forceful and the US, Germany and France are all on board. They must know Putins hands are on it and next week we will see how the rest of the world responds
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
Do you really want the Government to reveal such sensitive details to the public?? Are you that naive?
Why do they need to. Why can't they say this nerve agent used in Salisbury was made by Russia or I need anything that points a direct finger.
Anyone listening to Murray on 5 live and accusing the Government of not being able to same more than of a type developed in Russia for 15 mins
Then at the end Nolan reads a response from the Government that uses the exact same phrase just fuels a fire why not snuff it out by saying it came from or was made in?
Don't see how that compromises anyone. Just completely nullifies Murray's arguement
You are fixating on language. Language that has been carefully chosen.
Murray is not a trustworthy commentator - no matter how the BBC present him. Your obsession with the language is baffling .
Not by the looks of my Facebook feed...stupid amount of people arguing nonsense like how would our scientists know what this nerve agent is, if it has never been made outside of Russia.
That's such a stupid argument. You'd never be able to discover anything if that was the case.
It is Alex jones level of conspiracy theory.
I bet you thought those who advocated Iraq had no WMDs were nutters though at the time of Blair's illegal war.
Bit different this time. A chemical attack has taken place and Porton Down identify it as a military grade nerve gas only produced by Russia.
The other reported act is that the National Security Advisors did not give Corbyn access to the full detail given to Theresa May as he is seen as a risk to National security.
As far as Boris is concerned I think he is acting with TM's authority as they both must know the details of the nerve agent origin
Of the type developed in Russia
This is desperate stuff by Corbyn's supporters. He called it wrong, has been found out, and ironically strengthened Theresa May.
Also the IRA, Hamas etc could be described as a long time ago but this is now and in real time for Corbyn and momentum, and it will follow them all the way to the next election
We heard all that with the Islamist attacks in Manchester and London Bridge during the campaign. Yet the Corbyn surge continued.
This is a very different type of event. It is an attack by a member of the UN Security Council and the G8 on a UK resident using chemical agents. That is why it is resonating more.
The problem of a radicalised minority is very different to an attack by a nation state.
OK today's poll showed Labour holding steady. The YouGov from the same period showed a drop of 4 points. It is too early to be certain what the direction of travel really is.
However it is beyond question that the internal struggles within the PLP have come to the fore for the first time in a long time. Shadow ministers have been refusing to follow the Corbyn line.
I recall the posts on PB here how the Islamist attacks were going to destroy Corbyn politically. I dont see why this should be different.
So you don't have an answer to why of a type developed in Russia is the only phrase they use? The only one the UK uses France uses and US uses. You are 100% certain of a type developed by Russia means Russia actually did this and Murray doesn't have a point about the use of this phrase??
No he doesn't. That he, and you, are relying so heavily on it, and that he spins an entire conspiracy from it, shows how weak relying on it is. He, and you, are analysing that phrase so precisely, then you appear to be ignoring that the rest of his logic relies on a whole lot more assumptions, with no motivational basis, than the government, and opposition's, position.
That MPs agree something doesn't make it true, we all know this, but dear Mr Murray, and you, seem to be placing a far higher evidentiary bar on what the government must absolutely prove beyond a reasonable doubt than on alternate theories, and acting as though picking apart a phrase is a smoking gun.
Here's a question: If the government are lying about this, which is the basis of Mr Murray's contention, and they have managed to get allies on board for that lie, why the f*** would they hold themselves to a standard of not changing the phrase to fool those oh so clever people like Mr Murray from picking up on it? Why not just alter the phrase?
Is not the more likely possibility to use of a phrase to be that it is a sound, cautious phrase given the stated nature of how these things are created, rather than that the government is peddling a lie which they could have solved by use of changing the grammar?
Edit:
Short version - a theory which relies on the government, and all its allies, being caught out in a massive lie because they are too stupid to change a mere phrase, when they are already willing to perpetuate a huge lie about attempted murder, is 'highly likely' to be implausible.
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
Not true. There are several other options other than direct conversions from the Tories.
Non voters from last time no doubt - but are you saying he is not repelling Middle England just now
in Harborough and Huntington, quintisential true blue Shire Middle England there were very big gains of 20% ish to take Labour to 30% in 2017. I see no evidence of shifts since. Corbyn is not as unpopular in Middle England as you may imagine, perhaps because of the circles in which you mix.
There is the possibility of better Labour turnout, depressed Tory turnout, demographic change, better tactical voting against the Tories, further squeezing of third parties and former kippers in particular. Tories should not be complacent, and neither should be Labour. At present it is a dead heat.
100% for your loyalty but I thought you were a lib dem
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
Do you really want the Government to reveal such sensitive details to the public?? Are you that naive?
Why do they need to. Why can't they say this nerve agent used in Salisbury was made by Russia or I need anything that points a direct finger.
Anyone listening to Murray on 5 live and accusing the Government of not being able to same more than of a type developed in Russia for 15 mins
Then at the end Nolan reads a response from the Government that uses the exact same phrase just fuels a fire why not snuff it out by saying it came from or was made in?
Don't see how that compromises anyone. Just completely nullifies Murray's arguement
You are fixating on language. Language that has been carefully chosen.
Murray is not a trustworthy commentator - no matter how the BBC present him. Your obsession with the language is baffling .
I am very surprised the bbc are having him on especially given he works for wikileaks. You would have thought after assange / trump / Russian hacking they would be staying well clear.
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
Not true. There are several other options other than direct conversions from the Tories.
Non voters from last time no doubt - but are you saying he is not repelling Middle England just now
in Harborough and Huntington, quintisential true blue Shire Middle England there were very big gains of 20% ish to take Labour to 30% in 2017. I see no evidence of shifts since. Corbyn is not as unpopular in Middle England as you may imagine, perhaps because of the circles in which you mix.
There is the possibility of better Labour turnout, depressed Tory turnout, demographic change, better tactical voting against the Tories, further squeezing of third parties and former kippers in particular. Tories should not be complacent, and neither should be Labour. At present it is a dead heat.
100% for your loyalty but I thought you were a lib dem
A red liberal rather than a blue liberal, or even the lesser spotted LD centrist?
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
IMO the route to winning for either side is differential turnout. The two blocs of voters are pretty evenly matched and both perceive the gap as too big to cross: there are now a lot of voters who literally cannot imagine voting for the other side. However, there are quie a few Tories who don't really feel the party has earned another 5 years to 2027, and I can see significant abstentions there. Conversely there are Labour voters who don't like Corbyn and some of those won't vote. Can we be confident who will be keener in 2022? I don't think so, do you?
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
Do you really want the Government to reveal such sensitive details to the public?? Are you that naive?
Why do they need to. Why can't they say this nerve agent used in Salisbury was made by Russia or I need anything that points a direct finger.
Anyone listening to Murray on 5 live and accusing the Government of not being able to same more than of a type developed in Russia for 15 mins
Then at the end Nolan reads a response from the Government that uses the exact same phrase just fuels a fire why not snuff it out by saying it came from or was made in?
Don't see how that compromises anyone. Just completely nullifies Murray's arguement
You are fixating on language. Language that has been carefully chosen.
Murray is not a trustworthy commentator - no matter how the BBC present him. Your obsession with the language is baffling .
Fair enough you are probably right.
Maybe I am becoming obsessed by this bloke I had never heard of till yesterday.
Not by the looks of my Facebook feed...stupid amount of people arguing nonsense like how would our scientists know what this nerve agent is, if it has never been made outside of Russia.
That's such a stupid argument. You'd never be able to discover anything if that was the case.
It is Alex jones level of conspiracy theory.
I bet you thought those who advocated Iraq had no WMDs were nutters though at the time of Blair's illegal war.
Bit different this time. A chemic
As far as Boris is concerned I think he is acting with TM's authority as they both must know the details of the nerve agent origin
Of the type developed in Russia
This is desperate stuff by Corbyn's supporters. He called it wrong, has been found out, and ironically strengthened Theresa May.
Also the IRA, Hamas etc could be described as a long time ago but this is now and in real time for Corbyn and momentum, and it will follow them all the way to the next election
We heard all that with the Islamist attacks in Manchester and London Bridge during the campaign. Yet the Corbyn surge continued.
This is a very different type of event. It is an attack by a member of the UN Security Council and the G8 on a UK resident using chemical agents. That is why it is resonating more.
The problem of a radicalised minority is very different to an attack by a nation state.
OK today's poll showed Labour holding steady. The YouGov from the same period showed a drop of 4 points. It is too early to be certain what the direction of travel really is.
However it is beyond question that the internal struggles within the PLP have come to the fore for the first time in a long time. Shadow ministers have been refusing to follow the Corbyn line.
I recall the posts on PB here how the Islamist attacks were going to destroy Corbyn politically. I dont see why this should be different.
It won't be. As much as mock his MPs it is still a hit for them to cause him trouble again, and he's had negative press about it there's no question, but it'll blow over in a week, and given how far we are from an election no one will remember who didn't already care/.
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
IMO the route to winning for either side is differential turnout. The two blocs of voters are pretty evenly matched and both perceive the gap as too big to cross: there are now a lot of voters who literally cannot imagine voting for the other side. However, there are quie a few Tories who don't really feel the party has earned another 5 years to 2027, and I can see significant abstentions there. Conversely there are Labour voters who don't like Corbyn and some of those won't vote. Can we be confident who will be keener in 2022? I don't think so, do you?
Again I agree entirely with you Nick.
Indeed over the last few weeks I have been saying the result of the next election is impossible to call
So you don't have an answer to why of a type developed in Russia is the only phrase they use? The only one the UK uses France uses and US uses. You are 100% certain of a type developed by Russia means Russia actually did this and Murray doesn't have a point about the use of this phrase??
No he doesn't. That he, and you, are relying so heavily on it, and that he spins an entire conspiracy from it, shows how weak relying on it is. He, and you, are analysing that phrase so precisely, then you appear to be ignoring that the rest of his logic relies on a whole lot more assumptions, with no motivational basis, than the government, and opposition's, position.
That MPs agree something doesn't make it true, we all know this, but dear Mr Murray, and you, seem to be placing a far higher evidentiary bar on what the government must absolutely prove beyond a reasonable doubt than on alternate theories, and acting as though picking apart a phrase is a smoking gun.
Here's a question: If the government are lying about this, which is the basis of Mr Murray's contention, and they have managed to get allies on board for that lie, why the f*** would they hold themselves to a standard of not changing the phrase to fool those oh so clever people like Mr Murray from picking up on it? Why not just alter the phrase?
Is not the more likely possibility to use of a phrase to be that it is a sound, cautious phrase given the stated nature of how these things are created, rather than that the government is peddling a lie which they could have solved by use of changing the grammar?
Edit:
Short version - a theory which relies on the government, and all its allies, being caught out in a massive lie because they are too stupid to change a mere phrase, when they are already willing to perpetuate a huge lie about attempted murder, is 'highly likely' to be implausible.
Tick VG.
That does make sense.
This Murray bloke who came out of nowhere yesterday then turns up on 5 live is good at bulldhitting if that's what he's doing. He has definitely got in my head.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
Do you really want the Government to reveal such sensitive details to the public?? Are you that naive?
Why do they need to. Why can't they say this nerve agent used in Salisbury was made by Russia or I need anything that points a direct finger.
Anyone listening to Murray on 5 live and accusing the Government of not being able to same more than of a type developed in Russia for 15 mins
Then at the end Nolan reads a response from the Government that uses the exact same phrase just fuels a fire why not snuff it out by saying it came from or was made in?
Don't see how that compromises anyone. Just completely nullifies Murray's arguement
You are fixating on language. Language that has been carefully chosen.
Murray is not a trustworthy commentator - no matter how the BBC present him. Your obsession with the language is baffling .
Fair enough you are probably right.
Maybe I am becoming obsessed by this bloke I had never heard of till yesterday.
Let's see how this develops.
Off to bed now.
You coming Big G
Such sensible words BJO and we all need to hope TM has called this right for many reasons.
And yes, time to listen to some classical music and drift into sleep.
Have a good restful sleep
Sure we will be sparing again shortly but in a nice way.
For the first time since the general election May’s net approval rating (-9%) is better than Corbyn’s (-10%).
More than two-fifths of voters (43%) say May has the best interests of the country at heart compared with 39% who say Corbyn has. Thirty-two percent say the prime minister is able to stand up for Britain’s interests against 28% who believe Corbyn is.
Still pretty high numbers for Agent Cob given his public pro Russian position
I think May is having a good week because her stock in trade of sober statements is what is seen to be needed, rather than the flashier talents needed in elections. Also, the Tories are taking a breather from knifing each other in public. But people who like Corbyn aren't greatly deterred by another round of red scare allegations, as these figures show.
Fair comment as so often Nick, but Corbyn cannot get into power by the people who like him. He has to gain conservative voters especially in middle England and right now he is repelling them
Not true. There are several other options other than direct conversions from the Tories.
Non voters from last time no doubt - but are you saying he is not repelling Middle England just now
in Harborough and Huntington, quintisential true blue Shire Middle England there were very big gains of 20% ish to take Labour to 30% in 2017. I see no evidence of shifts since. Corbyn is not as unpopular in Middle England as you may imagine, perhaps because of the circles in which you mix.
There is the possibility of better Labour turnout, depressed Tory turnout, demographic change, better tactical voting against the Tories, further squeezing of third parties and former kippers in particular. Tories should not be complacent, and neither should be Labour. At present it is a dead heat.
100% for your loyalty but I thought you were a lib dem
I am. I used to be in Labour and supported Kendall in the leadership. I think Cable is a waste of space, but while I disagree with Corbyn on several economic issues I do agree on a number of social issues.
Some of the stuff stacking up in the NHS is going to be big later in the year. RTT waiting time targets have effectively been abandoned, staffing gaps are gaping in all rotas, my own hospital Trust has stopped all General Anaesthetic admissions that need a bed for 3 months now, without end in sight.
So you don't have an answer to why of a type developed in Russia is the only phrase they use? The only one the UK uses France uses and US uses. You are 100% certain of a type developed by Russia means Russia actually did this and Murray doesn't have a point about the use of this phrase??
No he doesn't. That he, and you, are relying so heavily on it, and that he spins an entire conspiracy from it, shows how weak relying on it is. He, and you, are analysing that phrase so precisely, then you appear to be ignoring that the rest of his logic relies on a whole lot more assumptions, with no motivational basis, than the government, and opposition's, position.
That MPs agree something doesn't make it true, we all know this, but dear Mr Murray, and you, seem to be placing a far higher evidentiary bar on what the government must absolutely prove beyond a reasonable doubt than on alternate theories, and acting as though picking apart a phrase is a smoking gun.
Here's a question: If the government are lying about this, which is the basis of Mr Murray's contention, and they have managed to get allies on board for that lie, why the f*** would they hold themselves to a standard of not changing the phrase to fool those oh so clever people like Mr Murray from picking up on it? Why not just alter the phrase?
Is not the more likely possibility to use of a phrase to be that it is a sound, cautious phrase given the stated nature of how these things are created, rather than that the government is peddling a lie which they could have solved by use of changing the grammar?
Edit:
Short version - a theory which relies on the government, and all its allies, being caught out in a massive lie because they are too stupid to change a mere phrase, when they are already willing to perpetuate a huge lie about attempted murder, is 'highly likely' to be implausible.
Tick VG.
That does make sense.
This Murray bloke who came out of nowhere yesterday then turns up on 5 live is good at bulldhitting if that's what he's doing. He has definitely got in my head.
He hasn't come out of nowhere. He has a long history. Do yourself a favour and go and look him up and the list of dodgy / false claims and conspiracy theories he has made.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Because when your entire case rests on government using a careful phrase therefore there must be a massive conspiracy about a reckless act of attempted murder - eg assuming they are willing to lie about murder, but not switch a few words around in Microsoft Word - it is just plain silly.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
100% for your loyalty but I thought you were a lib dem
I am. I used to be in Labour and supported Kendall in the leadership. I think Cable is a waste of space, but while I disagree with Corbyn on several economic issues I do agree on a number of social issues.
Some of the stuff stacking up in the NHS is going to be big later in the year. RTT waiting time targets have effectively been abandoned, staffing gaps are gaping in all rotas, my own hospital Trust has stopped all General Anaesthetic admissions that need a bed for 3 months now, without end in sight.
Of course the NHS is a huge issue and I fully expect that by the autumn the government will have provided a credible source of adequate long term funding and in the meantime the pay freeze will go.
Indeed some of labour's social ideas are acceptable to me , it is just Corbyn and the hard left are not
I am not one for shroud waving, but it took us years of hard work to get waiting lists down, it is extremely demoralising to see them going back up so quickly.
The problem is much more than money though, the problem of recruitment and retention of staff is becoming massive. If we had the money to open the 2-3 medical wards and dozen intensive care beds that we need, we could not staff them. There simply are not the qualified people out there, and the fifty-somethings like me are all looking to the exits. We do not want to be acting down to cover the vacancies in the junior rota.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Because when your entire case rests on government using a careful phrase therefore there must be a massive conspiracy about a reckless act of attempted murder - eg assuming they are willing to lie about murder, but not switch a few words around in Microsoft Word - it is just plain silly.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
Craig Murray is an interesting character. The stories around his time at the FCO and in Uzbekistan at the time of the War on Terror are a mixture of legitimate human rights concerns and rather odd sexual shenanigans.
On the Salisbury poisonings he has gpne over to the Dark Side. There simply no means or motive for the poisoning apart from it being ordereed high up in Russia.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Because when your entire case rests on government using a careful phrase therefore there must be a massive conspiracy about a reckless act of attempted murder - eg assuming they are willing to lie about murder, but not switch a few words around in Microsoft Word - it is just plain silly.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
Craig Murray is an interesting character. The stories around his time at the FCO and in Uzbekistan at the time of the War on Terror are a mixture of legitimate human rights concerns and rather odd sexual shenanigans.
On the Salisbury poisonings he has gpne over to the Dark Side. There simply no means or motive for the poisoning apart from it being ordereed high up in Russia.
This isn't the first time he has argued against Russian involvement. Him working for wikileaks I am sure has nothing to do with it.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
make sure you have your tinfoil hat on at all times
Meanwhile Corbynista fans, conspiracy nuts and other useful idiots try their hardest to deny that Russia is a threat to us, repeat Russian excuses and diversionary stories and claim that it is a smear to suggest that Corbyn, a man who has appointed as Labour’s spokesman a man who admires Stalin and who has spoken at rallies in support of Putin (once sharing a stage with him), a man (Corbyn) who has repeatedly spoken at rallies in front of flags of Marx and Lenin, a man who did not celebrate the passing of Soviet Russia but moaned that it would no longer be available for the anti-imperialist cause, seemingly oblivious to the millions of Eastern Europeans and East Germans celebrating their freedom from Soviet/Russian imperialism, has sympathy for Russia.
And they want this man to be in charge of the security of the nation and its citizens.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Because when your entire case rests on government using a careful phrase therefore there must be a massive conspiracy about a reckless act of attempted murder - eg assuming they are willing to lie about murder, but not switch a few words around in Microsoft Word - it is just plain silly.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
Craig Murray is an interesting character. The stories around his time at the FCO and in Uzbekistan at the time of the War on Terror are a mixture of legitimate human rights concerns and rather odd sexual shenanigans.
On the Salisbury poisonings he has gpne over to the Dark Side. There simply no means or motive for the poisoning apart from it being ordereed high up in Russia.
Yeah. People who are adamant that it isn't Russia might want to elaborate as to who has reason to knock of a Russian ex-spy and convicted traitor (in Russia's eyes)
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Because when your entire case rests on government using a careful phrase therefore there must be a massive conspiracy about a reckless act of attempted murder - eg assuming they are willing to lie about murder, but not switch a few words around in Microsoft Word - it is just plain silly.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
Craig Murray is an interesting character. The stories around his time at the FCO and in Uzbekistan at the time of the War on Terror are a mixture of legitimate human rights concerns and rather odd sexual shenanigans.
On the Salisbury poisonings he has gpne over to the Dark Side. There simply no means or motive for the poisoning apart from it being ordereed high up in Russia.
Yeah. People who are adamant that it isn't Russia might want to elaborate as to who has reason to knock of a Russian ex-spy and convicted traitor (in Russia's eyes)
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Because when your entire case rests on government using a careful phrase therefore there must be a massive conspiracy about a reckless act of attempted murder - eg assuming they are willing to lie about murder, but not switch a few words around in Microsoft Word - it is just plain silly.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
Craig Murray is an interesting character. The stories around his time at the FCO and in Uzbekistan at the time of the War on Terror are a mixture of legitimate human rights concerns and rather odd sexual shenanigans.
On the Salisbury poisonings he has gpne over to the Dark Side. There simply no means or motive for the poisoning apart from it being ordereed high up in Russia.
Yeah. People who are adamant that it isn't Russia might want to elaborate as to who has reason to knock of a Russian ex-spy and convicted traitor (in Russia's eyes)
"In late February, Moustafa, an engineering student based in Nottingham, UK, was brutally beaten by 10 British women of African descent. The incident stirred condemnation of both the Egyptian Foreign Ministry and the British Embassy in Cairo. UK Police said there was no information to suggest the attack was motivated by racial hate, but authorities will "continue to keep an open mind.""
It was quite incredible that Abbott told journos to f##k off when asked about Russia...she isn't some z-list celeb being doorstepped outside a nightclub at 3am, she is a leading politician and is expected to respond to major events.
The most incredible part being that it didn't happen?
I realise the journalist makes it appear that way but if you follow the twitter conversation somebody asks 'told by who' and the journalist replies 'a man in front of us in the audience' (first and second reply) of course almost everyone misses the clarification and the original misleading words are what people see, a good days work I guess.
It was quite incredible that Abbott told journos to f##k off when asked about Russia...she isn't some z-list celeb being doorstepped outside a nightclub at 3am, she is a leading politician and is expected to respond to major events.
The most incredible part being that it didn't happen?
I realise the journalist makes it appear that way but if you follow the twitter conversation somebody asks 'told by who' and the journalist replies 'a man in front of us in the audience' (first and second reply) of course almost everyone misses the clarification and the original misleading words are what people see, a good days work I guess.
Fair enough, stand corrected (I just saw that tweet posted here and as you say it is rather misleading)...but did she put the rude individual in their place and did she answer the questions ?
I don't recall her making any statements on this matter.
It was quite incredible that Abbott told journos to f##k off when asked about Russia...she isn't some z-list celeb being doorstepped outside a nightclub at 3am, she is a leading politician and is expected to respond to major events.
The most incredible part being that it didn't happen?
I realise the journalist makes it appear that way but if you follow the twitter conversation somebody asks 'told by who' and the journalist replies 'a man in front of us in the audience' (first and second reply) of course almost everyone misses the clarification and the original misleading words are what people see, a good days work I guess.
Fair enough, stand corrected (I just saw that tweet posted here and as you say it is rather misleading)...but did she put the rude individual in their place and did she answer the questions ?
I don't recall her making any statements on this matter.
My reply was a little abrupt it is mainly the journalist I am annoyed at not you, also someone else mentioned it you are just unlucky I got to yours first
The second tweet did also say something about talking to the person who told them to piss off.
She (Abbott) didn't answer on questions on Russia from her, or anyone else I imagine, though in fairness the 'event' (not sure what to call it) was about something else and it was the moderator who decided to not allow the question. It could be because it wasn't related to the event they were at but to be honest I'm guessing at this point. If you google Dianne Abbot Russia there does seem to be a few things she has done or said, or at least an interview and an article on Labourlist regarding it.
It was quite incredible that Abbott told journos to f##k off when asked about Russia...she isn't some z-list celeb being doorstepped outside a nightclub at 3am, she is a leading politician and is expected to respond to major events.
The most incredible part being that it didn't happen?
I realise the journalist makes it appear that way but if you follow the twitter conversation somebody asks 'told by who' and the journalist replies 'a man in front of us in the audience' (first and second reply) of course almost everyone misses the clarification and the original misleading words are what people see, a good days work I guess.
Fair enough, stand corrected (I just saw that tweet posted here and as you say it is rather misleading)...but did she put the rude individual in their place and did she answer the questions ?
I don't recall her making any statements on this matter.
My reply was a little abrupt it is mainly the journalist I am annoyed at not you, also someone else mentioned it you are just unlucky I got to yours first
The second tweet did also say something about talking to the person who told them to piss off.
She (Abbott) didn't answer on questions on Russia from her, or anyone else I imagine, though in fairness the 'event' (not sure what to call it) was about something else and it was the moderator who decided to not allow the question. It could be because it wasn't related to the event they were at but to be honest I'm guessing at this point. If you google Dianne Abbot Russia there does seem to be a few things she has done or said, or at least an interview and an article on Labourlist regarding it.
No offence taken. I stated something that isn't true (albeit not intentionally), no problem in being called out on that.
FYI, everybody should read that Guardian piece on Cambridge Analytics. Really interesting piece, although I slightly disagree on the "stealing" Facebook data angle, when I all this kind of data collection is widespread and you are opting in to some T&Cs *.
* there is a wider discussion on is this right etc, but to single out only Facebook and the way the company did this makes it seem like they are the only ones doing this, when I see so many sites / apps now doing similar things where it says sign in with google etc and it says google when then share a load of stuff with them.
FYI, everybody should read that Guardian piece on Cambridge Analytics. Really interesting piece, although I slightly disagree on the "stealing" Facebook data angle, when I all this kind of data collection is widespread and you are opting in to some T&Cs *.
* there is a wider discussion on is this right etc, but to single out only Facebook and the way the company did this makes it seem like they are the only ones doing this, when I see so many sites / apps now doing similar things where it says sign in with google etc and it says google when then share a load of stuff with them.
One thing for certain is that you’d be hearing nothing about Facebook data analysis now if the US election had gone the other way and the Democrats had made extensive use of the data.
FYI, everybody should read that Guardian piece on Cambridge Analytics. Really interesting piece, although I slightly disagree on the "stealing" Facebook data angle, when I all this kind of data collection is widespread and you are opting in to some T&Cs *.
* there is a wider discussion on is this right etc, but to single out only Facebook and the way the company did this makes it seem like they are the only ones doing this, when I see so many sites / apps now doing similar things where it says sign in with google etc and it says google when then share a load of stuff with them.
One thing for certain is that you’d be hearing nothing about Facebook data analysis now if the US election had gone the other way and the Democrats had made extensive use of the data.
Seriously can anyone find a Government quote that says anything more than of a type developed in Russia.
I drink vodka of a type developed in Russia (made in Warrington)
utterly pathetic
You can't find one then.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Because when your entire case rests on government using a careful phrase therefore there must be a massive conspiracy about a reckless act of attempted murder - eg assuming they are willing to lie about murder, but not switch a few words around in Microsoft Word - it is just plain silly.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
Craig Murray is an interesting character. The stories around his time at the FCO and in Uzbekistan at the time of the War on Terror are a mixture of legitimate human rights concerns and rather odd sexual shenanigans.
On the Salisbury poisonings he has gpne over to the Dark Side. There simply no means or motive for the poisoning apart from it being ordereed high up in Russia.
Yeah. People who are adamant that it isn't Russia might want to elaborate as to who has reason to knock of a Russian ex-spy and convicted traitor (in Russia's eyes)
Murray says when it looks like Russia Israel has motive to make them look bad. Of course.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/27/cambridge-analytica-boss-denies-working-brexit-campaign
That is quite different from knowledge that putin has ordered secret service to deal with traitors and let them get on with it.
Anyone listening to Murray on 5 live and accusing the Government of not being able to same more than of a type developed in Russia for 15 mins
Then at the end Nolan reads a response from the Government that uses the exact same phrase just fuels a fire why not snuff it out by saying it came from or was made in?
Don't see how that compromises anyone. Just completely nullifies Murray's arguement
There is the possibility of better Labour turnout, depressed Tory turnout, demographic change, better tactical voting against the Tories, further squeezing of third parties and former kippers in particular. Tories should not be complacent, and neither should be Labour. At present it is a dead heat.
The problem of a radicalised minority is very different to an attack by a nation state.
OK today's poll showed Labour holding steady. The YouGov from the same period showed a drop of 4 points. It is too early to be certain what the direction of travel really is.
However it is beyond question that the internal struggles within the PLP have come to the fore for the first time in a long time. Shadow ministers have been refusing to follow the Corbyn line.
Why is it pathetic some bloke gets 15 mins airtime on 5 Live saying they can't say more than of a type developed in Russia and then the govt response to 5 live says the same exact phrase
Murray is not a trustworthy commentator - no matter how the BBC present him. Your obsession with the language is baffling .
That MPs agree something doesn't make it true, we all know this, but dear Mr Murray, and you, seem to be placing a far higher evidentiary bar on what the government must absolutely prove beyond a reasonable doubt than on alternate theories, and acting as though picking apart a phrase is a smoking gun.
Here's a question: If the government are lying about this, which is the basis of Mr Murray's contention, and they have managed to get allies on board for that lie, why the f*** would they hold themselves to a standard of not changing the phrase to fool those oh so clever people like Mr Murray from picking up on it? Why not just alter the phrase?
Is not the more likely possibility to use of a phrase to be that it is a sound, cautious phrase given the stated nature of how these things are created, rather than that the government is peddling a lie which they could have solved by use of changing the grammar?
Edit:
Short version - a theory which relies on the government, and all its allies, being caught out in a massive lie because they are too stupid to change a mere phrase, when they are already willing to perpetuate a huge lie about attempted murder, is 'highly likely' to be implausible.
They didn't dispute it then
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/commons-committees/culture-media-and-sport/Arron-Banks-appendix.pdf
https://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/big-data-better-donald-trump/1383025
https://www.prweek.com/article/1373378/leaveeu-campaign-brings-us-voter-data-messaging-firm-cambridge-analytica
Maybe I am becoming obsessed by this bloke I had never heard of till yesterday.
Let's see how this develops.
Off to bed now.
You coming Big G
Indeed over the last few weeks I have been saying the result of the next election is impossible to call
That does make sense.
This Murray bloke who came out of nowhere yesterday then turns up on 5 live is good at bulldhitting if that's what he's doing. He has definitely got in my head.
And yes, time to listen to some classical music and drift into sleep.
Have a good restful sleep
Sure we will be sparing again shortly but in a nice way.
Good night
Some of the stuff stacking up in the NHS is going to be big later in the year. RTT waiting time targets have effectively been abandoned, staffing gaps are gaping in all rotas, my own hospital Trust has stopped all General Anaesthetic admissions that need a bed for 3 months now, without end in sight.
You genuinely think everyone is willing to lie about some truly massive things, but everyone drew the line at adopting a different phrase? That was the line they would not cross?
I think it is time for a good night's sleep for all of us. And to remember if our government is lying to us about this, we will find out - they are not competent or authoritarian enough to keep such a lie under wraps forever.
100% for your loyalty but I thought you were a lib dem
I am. I used to be in Labour and supported Kendall in the leadership. I think Cable is a waste of space, but while I disagree with Corbyn on several economic issues I do agree on a number of social issues.
Some of the stuff stacking up in the NHS is going to be big later in the year. RTT waiting time targets have effectively been abandoned, staffing gaps are gaping in all rotas, my own hospital Trust has stopped all General Anaesthetic admissions that need a bed for 3 months now, without end in sight.
Of course the NHS is a huge issue and I fully expect that by the autumn the government will have provided a credible source of adequate long term funding and in the meantime the pay freeze will go.
Indeed some of labour's social ideas are acceptable to me , it is just Corbyn and the hard left are not
I am not one for shroud waving, but it took us years of hard work to get waiting lists down, it is extremely demoralising to see them going back up so quickly.
The problem is much more than money though, the problem of recruitment and retention of staff is becoming massive. If we had the money to open the 2-3 medical wards and dozen intensive care beds that we need, we could not staff them. There simply are not the qualified people out there, and the fifty-somethings like me are all looking to the exits. We do not want to be acting down to cover the vacancies in the junior rota.
On the Salisbury poisonings he has gpne over to the Dark Side. There simply no means or motive for the poisoning apart from it being ordereed high up in Russia.
“When not if.....”
Meanwhile Corbynista fans, conspiracy nuts and other useful idiots try their hardest to deny that Russia is a threat to us, repeat Russian excuses and diversionary stories and claim that it is a smear to suggest that Corbyn, a man who has appointed as Labour’s spokesman a man who admires Stalin and who has spoken at rallies in support of Putin (once sharing a stage with him), a man (Corbyn) who has repeatedly spoken at rallies in front of flags of Marx and Lenin, a man who did not celebrate the passing of Soviet Russia but moaned that it would no longer be available for the anti-imperialist cause, seemingly oblivious to the millions of Eastern Europeans and East Germans celebrating their freedom from Soviet/Russian imperialism, has sympathy for Russia.
And they want this man to be in charge of the security of the nation and its citizens.
Dear oh dear.
We must not allow men like Max Mosley to do Putin’s work for him by weakening our own vigorous, free media any more - RUTH DAVIDSON
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/03/17/must-not-allow-men-like-max-mosley-do-putins-work-weakening/
https://twitter.com/jacob_rees_mogg/status/975160270715785226?s=21
Meanwhile Trump isn’t a fan of the FBI.
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/975163071361683456?s=21
"In late February, Moustafa, an engineering student based in Nottingham, UK, was brutally beaten by 10 British women of African descent. The incident stirred condemnation of both the Egyptian Foreign Ministry and the British Embassy in Cairo.
UK Police said there was no information to suggest the attack was motivated by racial hate, but authorities will "continue to keep an open mind.""
https://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/45518/Mariam-Moustafa-s-tragedy-Here-s-what-you-need-to
https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/974267747914928128
I realise the journalist makes it appear that way but if you follow the twitter conversation somebody asks 'told by who' and the journalist replies 'a man in front of us in the audience' (first and second reply) of course almost everyone misses the clarification and the original misleading words are what people see, a good days work I guess.
I don't recall her making any statements on this matter.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/data-war-whistleblower-christopher-wylie-faceook-nix-bannon-trump
Apparently this guy used to work for some party called the Lib Dems...
The second tweet did also say something about talking to the person who told them to piss off.
She (Abbott) didn't answer on questions on Russia from her, or anyone else I imagine, though in fairness the 'event' (not sure what to call it) was about something else and it was the moderator who decided to not allow the question. It could be because it wasn't related to the event they were at but to be honest I'm guessing at this point. If you google Dianne Abbot Russia there does seem to be a few things she has done or said, or at least an interview and an article on Labourlist regarding it.
* there is a wider discussion on is this right etc, but to single out only Facebook and the way the company did this makes it seem like they are the only ones doing this, when I see so many sites / apps now doing similar things where it says sign in with google etc and it says google when then share a load of stuff with them.