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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,441

    Hat-gate rolls on. The anti-BBC right are getting the chance to peer into the Looking Glass. Some might pause to consider that the way Corbynistas are coming across now over Jezza’s hat is how they come across when they cry conspiracy over the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation. But they won’t, of course.

    As Jimmy Saville and other scandals show, the people who put the BBC on a pedestal and absolve and deflect it of any criticism frequently look very silly. ;)

    Everyone criticises the BBC. Only the loons of the left and right claim it is biased.

    (Snip)
    Of course the BBC are biased. I'm biased; you're biased, and organisations are biased one way or another. This can be by design or accident, and can infect culture

    The keys are in recognising that bias, and understanding whether that bias *matters*.

    The BBC claim that their output is unbiased over the full output. That means individual programs or interviews can display a bias, but that will be countered elsewhere in the output. As they say this, then they must have studies and figures that show it is the case, and processes to ensure it. AFAIAA they've never released any such information, which makes me suspect the claim is b/s.
    It must be true because Farming Today is so anti-Brexit as to be ridiculous.

    But it is quite amusing. They had a 10 minute rant a few weeks back followed by live vox pops from 3 farmers who supported Brexit...

    She then turned to a 4th. “You’re going to lose money because of Brexit. Doesn’t that make you angry?” A. “Not really. I’d rather have more money but Brexit is the right thing to do. And if i’d wanted to be rich I wouldn’t have become a farmer anyway”
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,441

    Hat-gate rolls on. The anti-BBC right are getting the chance to peer into the Looking Glass. Some might pause to consider that the way Corbynistas are coming across now over Jezza’s hat is how they come across when they cry conspiracy over the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation. But they won’t, of course.

    As Jimmy Saville and other scandals show, the people who put the BBC on a pedestal and absolve and deflect it of any criticism frequently look very silly. ;)

    Everyone criticises the BBC. Only the loons of the left and right claim it is biased.

    (Snip)
    Of course the BBC are biased. I'm biased; you're biased, and organisations are biased one way or another. This can be by design or accident, and can infect culture

    The keys are in recognising that bias, and understanding whether that bias *matters*.

    The BBC claim that their output is unbiased over the full output. That means individual programs or interviews can display a bias, but that will be countered elsewhere in the output. As they say this, then they must have studies and figures that show it is the case, and processes to ensure it. AFAIAA they've never released any such information, which makes me suspect the claim is b/s.
    It must be true because Farming Today is so anti-Brexit as to be ridiculous.

    But it is quite amusing. They had a 10 minute rant a few weeks back followed by live vox pops from 3 farmers who supported Brexit...

    She then turned to a 4th. “You’re going to lose money because of Brexit. Doesn’t that make you angry?” A. “Not really. I’d rather have more money but Brexit is the right thing to do. And if i’d wanted to be rich I wouldn’t have become a farmer anyway”
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,434
    Charles said:

    Hat-gate rolls on. The anti-BBC right are getting the chance to peer into the Looking Glass. Some might pause to consider that the way Corbynistas are coming across now over Jezza’s hat is how they come across when they cry conspiracy over the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation. But they won’t, of course.

    As Jimmy Saville and other scandals show, the people who put the BBC on a pedestal and absolve and deflect it of any criticism frequently look very silly. ;)

    Everyone criticises the BBC. Only the loons of the left and right claim it is biased.

    (Snip)
    Of course the BBC are biased. I'm biased; you're biased, and organisations are biased one way or another. This can be by design or accident, and can infect culture

    The keys are in recognising that bias, and understanding whether that bias *matters*.

    The BBC claim that their output is unbiased over the full output. That means individual programs or interviews can display a bias, but that will be countered elsewhere in the output. As they say this, then they must have studies and figures that show it is the case, and processes to ensure it. AFAIAA they've never released any such information, which makes me suspect the claim is b/s.
    It must be true because Farming Today is so anti-Brexit as to be ridiculous.

    But it is quite amusing. They had a 10 minute rant a few weeks back followed by live vox pops from 3 farmers who supported Brexit...

    She then turned to a 4th. “You’re going to lose money because of Brexit. Doesn’t that make you angry?” A. “Not really. I’d rather have more money but Brexit is the right thing to do. And if i’d wanted to be rich I wouldn’t have become a farmer anyway”
    :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,867

    The afternoon thread features a discussion about AV and voting systems.

    Thank you, Mr Eagles. This is a great moment for PB, when the long threatened promised AV THREAD breaks upon our eager screens...

    And at least I will have nothing to distract me from either nursing my cold or marking the 45 exam scripts I have left.

    Please hold your resolve no matter what second preferences are expressed!

    (If anyone wishes to note the irony of me criticising someone else for sarcasm, then feel free to aim at the large target I have painted on myself...)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,616

    As I said a while back, given the current odds Laura Pidcock is a very good bet for next Labour leader.

    ha ha ha - serious mp's for serious times

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 42,483
    Mr. Doethur, PB had astroturfers before it was cool ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 9,867
    Charles said:

    Hat-gate rolls on. The anti-BBC right are getting the chance to peer into the Looking Glass. Some might pause to consider that the way Corbynistas are coming across now over Jezza’s hat is how they come across when they cry conspiracy over the Brussels Broadcasting Corporation. But they won’t, of course.

    As Jimmy Saville and other scandals show, the people who put the BBC on a pedestal and absolve and deflect it of any criticism frequently look very silly. ;)

    Everyone criticises the BBC. Only the loons of the left and right claim it is biased.

    (Snip)
    Of course the BBC are biased. I'm biased; you're biased, and organisations are biased one way or another. This can be by design or accident, and can infect culture

    The keys are in recognising that bias, and understanding whether that bias *matters*.

    The BBC claim that their output is unbiased over the full output. That means individual programs or interviews can display a bias, but that will be countered elsewhere in the output. As they say this, then they must have studies and figures that show it is the case, and processes to ensure it. AFAIAA they've never released any such information, which makes me suspect the claim is b/s.
    It must be true because Farming Today is so anti-Brexit as to be ridiculous.

    But it is quite amusing. They had a 10 minute rant a few weeks back followed by live vox pops from 3 farmers who supported Brexit...

    She then turned to a 4th. “You’re going to lose money because of Brexit. Doesn’t that make you angry?” A. “Not really. I’d rather have more money but Brexit is the right thing to do. And if i’d wanted to be rich I wouldn’t have become a farmer anyway”
    Final thought before departure.

    Pope John XXIII once said, 'There are three ways a man may ruin himself; gambling, women and farming. My father chose the most boring of the three.'

    Have a good afternoon everyone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,611
    Pulpstar said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    I think McDonnell will talk Corbyn round on this - he is his closest ally.
    That's going to require some spectacular pivots on here...

    "As we said all along, Russia - banged to rights. Them and their Tory paymasters in Isr....."
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,694
    Floater said:

    As I said a while back, given the current odds Laura Pidcock is a very good bet for next Labour leader.

    ha ha ha - serious mp's for serious times
    Shhh, some of us are enjoying being on the other side of their Betfair ramping!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 9,725

    Pulpstar said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    I think McDonnell will talk Corbyn round on this - he is his closest ally.
    That's going to require some spectacular pivots on here...

    "As we said all along, Russia - banged to rights. Them and their Tory paymasters in Isr....."
    Who are you quoting in your quotation marks?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,244

    The afternoon thread features a discussion about AV and voting systems.

    Shame! putting it up when I am at the FA Cup QF doing my bit for Anglo-Russian relations by singing "You're going home in a Salisbury Ambulance!" and similar light hearted banter ;)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,611

    Pulpstar said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    I think McDonnell will talk Corbyn round on this - he is his closest ally.
    That's going to require some spectacular pivots on here...

    "As we said all along, Russia - banged to rights. Them and their Tory paymasters in Isr....."
    Who are you quoting in your quotation marks?

    The Line.....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,611
    Floater said:

    As I said a while back, given the current odds Laura Pidcock is a very good bet for next Labour leader.

    ha ha ha - serious mp's for serious times

    As I've said - you should either have a vote or a Twitter account - not both.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 8,502

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,463
    ydoethur said:

    calum said:
    The ten least corrupt nations:

    1. New Zealand
    2. Denmark
    3. Finland/Norway/Switzerland (joint)
    4. Singapore/Sweden (joint)
    5. United Kingdom/Canada/Luxembourg/ Netherlands
    6. Germany
    7. Australia/Hong Kong/ Iceland (joint)
    8. US, Austria, Belgium,
    9. Ireland
    10. Japan

    And the most corrupt:

    1. Somalia
    2. South Sudan
    3. Syria
    4. Afghanistan
    5. Yemen/Sudan (joint)
    6. North Korea/Equatorial Guinea/Guinea Bissau/ Libya (joint)
    7. Iraq/Venezuela (joint)
    8. Angola/Turkmenistan (joint)
    9. Eritrea/Chad (joint)
    10. DRC/Congo/Cambodia/Tajikistan (joint)

    At risk of pedantry, those are not lists of ten. If there are joint numbers, then the next one down is not one forward but more. So, at present, your lists give the 20 'least' corrupt and 20 'most' corrupt, not ten. But the list has very little credibility. After all, it even includes Somalia which has no government!
    Like all these lists, or depends what the metrics are.
    In the case, I suspect they are looking at what is more or less measurable - whether you have to pay bribes when interacting with public officials (police; local government; customs etc); whether elections (if held) are free and fair etc
    Corruption exists in all places - this is looking at whether or not it is endemic in the ordinary experience of most people.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 724
    edited March 18

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
    Maybe Corbyn should pull back on this cracking down on the oligarchs stuff then...

    I can't see McDonnell plotting against Corbyn, in pretty much his own words the idea behind him being chancellor was a united team at the top as they had seen the battles for example of Blair and Brown.

    As for next Labour leader my guesses at the moment would be Rayner, Pidcock or Thornberry. It could be quite a few years though so plenty of time for that to change.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,463
    edited March 18
    ydoethur said:



    The Russian Ambassador to the EU suggested this morning that Porton Down is only 8 miles from Salisbury which has the ability to produce the nerve agent.

    If that's all he suggested that would have the virtue of being true, unless the 8 miles part is a vile calumny?
    He inference was - we did it
    In the noble cause of pedantry, you inferred that that was his implication.
    TUD, I protest! I'm meant to be the pedant in these parts.
    I’m not convinced you can mean to be a pedant; one either is, or isn’t.
    But yes, your claim is as good as anyone’s here.
    :smile:
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,087
    ydoethur said:

    Mr. Eye, that's no counter to Mr. kle4's entirely correct point. Being morally imperfect doesn't make the UK as bad as a state that participates in murdering political opponents in other countries with chemical weapons.

    I shouldn't bother. As we saw above, OchEye is a slightly more articulate version of Wisemann. If the facts don't fit the ideology the facts must be wrong (or, when they're clearly right, quietly ignored). He(?) also gets pretty unpleasant when challenged in my experience.

    In fact a very typical member of the hard left - convinced of their own self-righteousness and without a scrap of self-awareness.

    Edit - and bang on cue, Ocheye puts up another post that is presumably meant to be sarcastic but is actually rather amusing showing all those traits in full abandon.
    Ah, the good Doctor, speaks. Tis a pity that politics these days has swung so far to the right, that anyone with views to the left of Attilla the Hun (not a Rangers fan i understand) is considered a card carrying commie. Fortunately, it looks like the pendulum is returning back to a normal position. It may go too far, but that is the price of forcing the swing too high in the first place.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 2,244

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
    Good point! Those troll banks are wanted.

    Corbyn and McDonnell are not going to fall out over this.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,487
    And now Ladies and Gentleman, we have "fake memos" says Trump:

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 5,463

    And now Ladies and Gentleman, we have "fake memos" says Trump:

    Tweets the self declared liar....
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,180

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
    Maybe Corbyn should pull back on this cracking down on the oligarchs stuff then...

    .
    Why? Putin, like most dictators, never did. You promise to crack down on the corrupt billionaires and, once in power, be punitive to those that don't ally with the regime while leaving your supporters untouched.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 17,694
    Nigelb said:

    And now Ladies and Gentleman, we have "fake memos" says Trump:

    Tweets the self declared liar....
    As fake as a porn star’s breasts.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 724
    edited March 18
    Elliot said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
    Maybe Corbyn should pull back on this cracking down on the oligarchs stuff then...

    .
    Why? Putin, like most dictators, never did. You promise to crack down on the corrupt billionaires and, once in power, be punitive to those that don't ally with the regime while leaving your supporters untouched.
    I can understand the tactical argument for the Tories to continue opposing anything that can harm the oligarchs, I was pointing out from a tactics POV why Corbyn should follow their lead. Surely that would make you happy, after all Corbyn is evil and Tories are good so if he changes to their policy surely that must be slightly better...

    Next I think he should change his mind on Saudi arm sales to prove he really loves freedom and democracy...
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,180

    Elliot said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
    Maybe Corbyn should pull back on this cracking down on the oligarchs stuff then...

    .
    Why? Putin, like most dictators, never did. You promise to crack down on the corrupt billionaires and, once in power, be punitive to those that don't ally with the regime while leaving your supporters untouched.
    I can understand the tactical argument for the Tories to continue opposing anything that can harm the oligarchs, I was pointing out from a tactics POV why Corbyn should follow their lead. Surely that would make you happy, after all Corbyn is evil and Tories are good so if he changes to their policy surely that must be slightly better...

    Next I think he should change his mind on Saudi arm sales to prove he really loves freedom and democracy...
    Corbyn hates the Saudis because they are allied with America. Nothing to do with freedom and democracy. He would oppose the pro-genocide Hamas if he believed in those things.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 724
    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
    Maybe Corbyn should pull back on this cracking down on the oligarchs stuff then...

    .
    Why? Putin, like most dictators, never did. You promise to crack down on the corrupt billionaires and, once in power, be punitive to those that don't ally with the regime while leaving your supporters untouched.
    I can understand the tactical argument for the Tories to continue opposing anything that can harm the oligarchs, I was pointing out from a tactics POV why Corbyn should follow their lead. Surely that would make you happy, after all Corbyn is evil and Tories are good so if he changes to their policy surely that must be slightly better...

    Next I think he should change his mind on Saudi arm sales to prove he really loves freedom and democracy...
    Corbyn hates the Saudis because they are allied with America. Nothing to do with freedom and democracy. He would oppose the pro-genocide Hamas if he believed in those things.
    Hamas actually got elected and probably only because the Palestinians have been fighting for freedom for so long... terrible example...

    Or actually great example of exactly your world view. Yeah lets sell stuff to the Saudis who cares who they slaughter with it but oh no, the Palestinians who are constantly having their land stolen and have been forced into poverty are fighting back (and the Israelis have killed far more Palestinians than the other way around) this is the true evil in the world!!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,339
    edited March 18
    Scott_P said:
    I thought it was hidden in his daughter's suitcase. Or does no one actually know yet?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 43,733
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,427

    Scott_P said:
    I thought it was hidden in his daughter's suitcase. Or does no one actually know yet?
    I suspect at least one guy does ;)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 18,485
    Scott_P said:
    Is this more leaking of UK confidential material by the Americans?
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,387
    I'm just going to leave this here.


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,487

    Scott_P said:
    Is this more leaking of UK confidential material by the Americans?
    Could just have been one of these fake memos.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,487

    Scott_P said:
    I thought it was hidden in his daughter's suitcase. Or does no one actually know yet?
    I suspect at least one guy does ;)
    Could have been both. To make sure.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 14,487
    There'll be less viewers once the Russian embassy is cleared of staff.

    That just leaves Seamus Milne's media team really.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,036
    Totally and wildly O/T but for some reason, while we were in Thailand, my wife and I recorded the C4 series 'The Biggest Little Railway in the World', a description of how a group of (I thought) quintessentially English eccentrics who set out to set a new world record, to build the longest model railway in history stretching 71 miles across Scotland from Fort William to Inverness.

    It is utterly and completely bonkers, and as a result hilarious. I say English because the only accent-identifiable Scot I've seen so far was someone who piped the engine into one of the stations.

    Any PB'er who can find it, I urge them to watch it.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,180

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.

    If you're trying to win above all else then it seems prudent to keep on good terms with the Russians. The evidence from Trump and Brexit is that they're a useful ally if you're trying to win an election.
    Maybe Corbyn should pull back on this cracking down on the oligarchs stuff then...

    .
    Why? Putin, like most dictators, never did. You promise to crack down on the corrupt billionaires and, once in power, be punitive to those that don't ally with the regime while leaving your supporters untouched.
    I can understand the tactical argument for the Tories to continue opposing anything that can harm the oligarchs, I was pointing out from a tactics POV why Corbyn should follow their lead. Surely that would make you happy, after all Corbyn is evil and Tories are good so if he changes to their policy surely that must be slightly better...

    Next I think he should change his mind on Saudi arm sales to prove he really loves freedom and democracy...
    Corbyn hates the Saudis because they are allied with America. Nothing to do with freedom and democracy. He would oppose the pro-genocide Hamas if he believed in those things.
    Hamas actually got elected and probably only because the Palestinians have been fighting for freedom for so long... terrible example...

    Or actually great example of exactly your world view. Yeah lets sell stuff to the Saudis who cares who they slaughter with it but oh no, the Palestinians who are constantly having their land stolen and have been forced into poverty are fighting back (and the Israelis have killed far more Palestinians than the other way around) this is the true evil in the world!!
    You have just revealed how pathetic the Corbynista mindset is. I have never advocated selling arms to the Saudis and yet you still use it as justification to excuse support of a genocidal terrorist group. Mugabe was elected too but was still a monster. You are a zealot who can't defend Corbyn's terrible apologism for Putin's gangster regime so you distract by attacking strawmen.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,616
    felix said:

    RobD said:

    As I said a while back, given the current odds Laura Pidcock is a very good bet for next Labour leader.

    How exactly was it photoshopped to make more Russian? There is hardly any difference between the two images, apart from the shadow on his forehead being more saturated.
    I love the irony of Owen Jones campaign this week for his hero Corbyn . Surely he must know how despised he and his type are by the true believers .
    Owen Jones was not always a fan

    He said bad things about the Jeziah in the past.

    True believers will never forgive and forget.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,075
    I didn't see John McDonnell on Peston. Can someone please tell me what kind of hat he was wearing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 17,611
    edited March 18

    I didn't see John McDonnell on Peston. Can someone please tell me what kind of hat he was wearing.

    Black beret? (Over the black balaclava...)
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,093
    Seeing that shameless gobby tub of lard lose his seat was the best moment of GE2017.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 734
    edited March 18
    Floater said:

    Owen Jones was not always a fan

    He said bad things about the Jeziah in the past.

    True believers will never forgive and forget.


    He's just playing to the choir. Like with Trump, that requires a certain degree of conspiracy-loon posting.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 724
    edited March 18
    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.


    I can understand the tactical argument for the Tories to continue opposing anything that can harm the oligarchs, I was pointing out from a tactics POV why Corbyn should follow their lead. Surely that would make you happy, after all Corbyn is evil and Tories are good so if he changes to their policy surely that must be slightly better...

    Next I think he should change his mind on Saudi arm sales to prove he really loves freedom and democracy...
    Corbyn hates the Saudis because they are allied with America. Nothing to do with freedom and democracy. He would oppose the pro-genocide Hamas if he believed in those things.
    Hamas actually got elected and probably only because the Palestinians have been fighting for freedom for so long... terrible example...

    Or actually great example of exactly your world view. Yeah lets sell stuff to the Saudis who cares who they slaughter with it but oh no, the Palestinians who are constantly having their land stolen and have been forced into poverty are fighting back (and the Israelis have killed far more Palestinians than the other way around) this is the true evil in the world!!
    You have just revealed how pathetic the Corbynista mindset is. I have never advocated selling arms to the Saudis and yet you still use it as justification to excuse support of a genocidal terrorist group. Mugabe was elected too but was still a monster. You are a zealot who can't defend Corbyn's terrible apologism for Putin's gangster regime so you distract by attacking strawmen.
    I'm pathetic, have you read your own posts?

    I was pointing out the policies of a party you happily support but don't seem to criticise, at least not as much as Corbyn. If you think the Tories foreign policy is horrible and wrong its news to me, I must have missed it in between all the Corbyn is evil posts...

    If Hamas are genocidal than what does that make the Israeli's who kill far more than them?

    Let me guess no answer but another quick topic change to Corbyn is evil because of x or y.

    Might want to look in the mirror before you accuse others of zealotry, you comes across as a mix of unhinged and furious, which isn't a healthy combination.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,182
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain why the Corbynistas are so upset that he's been pictures wearing a hat?

    I feel like I've missed something here.

    Many thanks for asking that. I've just started reading through the comments and I'm feeling exactly like that.

    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,894

    The biggest single recipient of Russian "dirty" money is of course the British taxpayer.

    They pay SDLT, stamp duty, and capital gains. They keep lawyers and accountants in jobs.

    But for as long as "someone else" benefits from Russian corruption, nothing will be done.

    Russian wealth won off the backs of the dirt poor will be instead paying down Britain's debts.

    very little will be wasted on tax, it will be in British tax havens.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,180

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    McDonnell is so much smarter than Corbyn and understands just how damaging his leader’s foreign policy are for Labour. McDonnell wants to win above all else. Corbyn is less interested in that. Labour would be a greater danger to the Tories if McDonnell were in charge.


    I can understand the tactical argument for the Tories to continue opposing anything that can harm the oligarchs, I was pointing out from a tactics POV why Corbyn should follow their lead. Surely that would make you happy, after all Corbyn is evil and Tories are good so if he changes to their policy surely that must be slightly better...

    Next I think he should change his mind on Saudi arm sales to prove he really loves freedom and democracy...
    .
    Hamas actually got elected and probably only because the Palestinians have been fighting for freedom for so long... terrible example...
    You have just revealed how pathetic the Corbynista mindset is. I have never advocated selling arms to the Saudis and yet you still use it as justification to excuse support of a genocidal terrorist group. Mugabe was elected too but was still a monster. You are a zealot who can't defend Corbyn's terrible apologism for Putin's gangster regime so you distract by attacking strawmen.
    I'm pathetic, have you read your own posts?

    I was pointing out the policies of a party you happily support but don't seem to criticise, at least not as much as Corbyn. If you think the Tories foreign policy is horrible and wrong its news to me, I must have missed it in between all the Corbyn is evil posts...

    If Hamas are genocidal than what does that make the Israeli's who kill far more than them?

    Let me guess no answer but another quick topic change to Corbyn is evil because of x or y.

    Might want to look in the mirror before you accuse others of zealotry, you comes across as a mix of unhinged and furious, which isn't a healthy combination.
    I have been a Labour man for decades. I voted Tory at the last election because they are a much lesser evil than Corbyn. I have a lot of issues with their foreign policy, but it does not come close to providing cover for a regime harming UK civilians with chemical attacks on our soil.

    There is no "if" about Hamas' genocidal beliefs. It is in their founding charter. Israel is an ugly apartheid regime, but they are not genocidal. The difference in death tolls is due capabilities only. If Hamas had the whip hand the carnage would be on another scale.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,449
    edited March 18
    And yet the media (including it seems Brillo) are obsessed by Eck & his show. I wonder why?
  • NEW THREAD

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,894
    kle4 said:

    OchEye said:

    The biggest single recipient of Russian "dirty" money is of course the British taxpayer.

    They pay SDLT, stamp duty, and capital gains. They keep lawyers and accountants in jobs.

    But for as long as "someone else" benefits from Russian corruption, nothing will be done.

    Russian wealth won off the backs of the dirt poor will be instead paying down Britain's debts.

    There goes the Great British reputation for honesty, legality and truth that we have been so keen to uphold and shine like a beacon to the rest of the planet.. Instead, we are just as much a gangster economy as the Russians. Don't it make you proud!
    'Just as much as'. That we are not whiter than white does not mean we must be exactly the same, that is false equivalence.
    If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it follows it is a Duck
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 18,894

    Scott_P said:
    I thought it was hidden in his daughter's suitcase. Or does no one actually know yet?
    I suspect at least one guy does ;)
    Bit sexist , it could have been a gal that was responsible.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 724
    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    .
    I'm pathetic, have you read your own posts?

    I was pointing out the policies of a party you happily support but don't seem to criticise, at least not as much as Corbyn. If you think the Tories foreign policy is horrible and wrong its news to me, I must have missed it in between all the Corbyn is evil posts...

    If Hamas are genocidal than what does that make the Israeli's who kill far more than them?

    Let me guess no answer but another quick topic change to Corbyn is evil because of x or y.

    Might want to look in the mirror before you accuse others of zealotry, you comes across as a mix of unhinged and furious, which isn't a healthy combination.
    I have been a Labour man for decades. I voted Tory at the last election because they are a much lesser evil than Corbyn. I have a lot of issues with their foreign policy, but it does not come close to providing cover for a regime harming UK civilians with chemical attacks on our soil.

    There is no "if" about Hamas' genocidal beliefs. It is in their founding charter. Israel is an ugly apartheid regime, but they are not genocidal. The difference in death tolls is due capabilities only. If Hamas had the whip hand the carnage would be on another scale.

    The Tories are far better friends of the Russians that is why they haven't been as enthusiastic to push for tougher measures like Corbyn.

    Actions > words.

    The Israeli's have offered lovely words as they have killed Palestinians, taken their land and crushed their economy.. it doesn't mean much to me.

    Actions > words.

    It hardly seems surprising the crushed and desperate have slowly become more extreme as time has gone on and things have got worse, ignoring them or condemning them isn't going to help anyone but the Israeli's as it is the approach we have taken... and it hasn't helped anyone but the Israeli's.

    Now don't get me wrong, if you support Israeli expansion and/or don't care for the Palestinians then ignoring them or condemning them whilst letting the Israeli's get away without much action/condemnation for far worse is the correct play.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,180

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    Elliot said:

    .
    I'm pathetic, have you read your own posts?

    I was pointing out the policies of a party you happily support but don't seem to criticise, at least not as much as Corbyn. If you think the Tories foreign policy is horrible and wrong its news to me, I must have missed it in between all the Corbyn is evil posts...

    If Hamas are genocidal than what does that make the Israeli's who kill far more than them?

    Let me guess no answer but another quick topic change to Corbyn is evil because of x or y.

    Might want to look in the mirror before you accuse others of zealotry, you comes across as a mix of unhinged and furious, which isn't a healthy combination.
    I have been a Labour man for decades. I voted Tory at the last election because they are a much lesser evil than Corbyn. I have a lot of issues with their foreign policy, but it does not come close to providing cover for a regime harming UK civilians with chemical attacks on our soil.

    There is no "if" about Hamas' genocidal beliefs. It is in their founding charter. Israel is an ugly apartheid regime, but they are not genocidal. The difference in death tolls is due capabilities only. If Hamas had the whip hand the carnage would be on another scale.

    The Tories are far better friends of the Russians that is why they haven't been as enthusiastic to push for tougher measures like Corbyn.

    Actions > words.

    The Israeli's have offered lovely words as they have killed Palestinians, taken their land and crushed their economy.. it doesn't mean much to me.

    Actions > words.

    It hardly seems surprising the crushed and desperate have slowly become more extreme as time has gone on and things have got worse, ignoring them or condemning them isn't going to help anyone but the Israeli's as it is the approach we have taken... and it hasn't helped anyone but the Israeli's.

    Now don't get me wrong, if you support Israeli expansion and/or don't care for the Palestinians then ignoring them or condemning them whilst letting the Israeli's get away without much action/condemnation for far worse is the correct play.
    "Tougher measures". Corbyn won't even oppose Labour MPs going on Russia Today.

    As for Israel, they are flippant about collateral damage but they don't deliberately blow up civilians.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 724
    They deliberately do the actions that cause the reactions that lead to them killing more civilians. Professing high and mighty ideals means very little when it comes down to the practicalities of what Israel is doing.

    TBH going on Russia Today is less helpful to Putin than the failure of the Tories to support Corbyn's tougher measures. Guess they didn't want to upset their wealthy friends.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 5,616
    ydoethur said:

    Call me Mr Suspicious, but I don't think Andrew Rawnsley is impressed by Corbyn's performance:

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/18/jeremy-corbyn-sergei-skripal-attack-putin

    Palmer would call him a maybe
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 1,934
    There has never been a time when the leaderships of the two main parties are as inept and unfit to govern as they are now. The desperate need that the country has for a party of pragmatic moderates who will be primarily focused on what is in the country's economic interests and its national security provides the force to overcome the obstacles which have been already enumerated. Let's hope so.
This discussion has been closed.