As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
All those dupes in NE of Scotland will be bemused today, shafted yet again by the Tories , you have to wonder when the penny will drop for the dummies. Farmers should be assuming the position , they will be next in line.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
The EU sell 4bn a year of our fish, so the industry could be five times as large if we actually, you know, kept our own property.
The fishing industry certainly are spoilt - they have whole departments of civil servants mobilised to sell them out.
The onshore jobs that used to come with the fish are actually far more numerous than the fishermen themselves. But yet another problem is that we have as a nation got out of the way of eating fish in large quantities. We now prefer meat. Would we really go back if the fish were being landed here?
I think we might, actually.
There's a much greater diversity of fish on restaurants menus now than i remember when I was growing up, and cooked in more interesting and flavoursome ways.
You mean filet-o-fish with or without tartare sauce?
Yuk.
Brexiter advocating increased consumption of fish sneers at what must be huge element of fish consumption, albeit by proles.
As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
All those dupes in NE of Scotland will be bemused today, shafted yet again by the Tories , you have to wonder when the penny will drop for the dummies. Farmers should be assuming the position , they will be next in line.
By the next Scottish Parliament elections in May 2021 and the next general election in 2022 we will be fully out of the EU, the transition period will have ended and we will have control over fishing waters again
You started this conversation with “that’s deeply pathetic, even for you”
Pretty unpleasant from the off.
The firm I worked for billed Mylan $50m for its advice and the financing it provided.
I did not get paid for my work on the project as it was fairly tangential. I did get a salary from my employer (something I believe to be customary).
That clear enough for you?
You once accused me of 'favouring utilitarian architecture' . Believe me, there is not much of a bigger insult you could pay me. Massively deeply unpleasant.
But yes, it's clear you are a liar. If you meant the company, use 'we' or similar instead of 'me'/'I'.
I used 'deeply pathetic' in that post because I remembered there was a certain (ahem) difference between what you said then and now. And I was right.
I won't insult you beyond calling you a liar, because you come across as an interesting and pleasant chap.
“Deeply pathetic” related to a post in which I explained the difference between Trump and Obama as being “goodies” and “baddies”
Sorry, yes, you are right, it was that post.
But the basic point of that post still stands - it was deeply unpleasant IMO. There is no evidence the Clinton campaign misused data in the same way as CA has, and to say the difference is only 'goodies' and 'baddies' is crass. In my mind that's not explaining, but deeply unpleasant smearing.
"Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation."
Forgive my ignorance but McDonnell did say it was cost-free for the government. How does compensation cost nothing?
Could we try it on the EU?
We're currently renting. We're planning to buy. If the mortgage cost is less than the rent - then we are saving money, but also the person who we bought the house from is being compensated.
What the fishermen want now is effectively to be given the right to fish that their fathers sold back which is fair enough. After all these quotas are simply man made permits and they were never guaranteed to last forever. There are some practical issues of whether there are enough boats left to fish the UK waters but no doubt more could be built/acquired over time. On one view this will be a bit of a windfall for these communities but on the other they have been royally shafted by people who didn't care about them very much.
I don't think a continuation of the status quo for a year or two is going to be the end of the world for these communities but they do expect their gold back. The number of Scottish Tory MPs who have promised it to them exceeds May's majority even with the DUP. She needs to be very careful about this.
Do I remember someone saying we could have our cake and eat it?
Tbh I think that there is a great deal of fantasy about this. These industries and communities have already been destroyed as have their traditions. Fishing is a brutally hard way to earn a living. The current generation have neither the skills nor the inclination to undertake that work in large numbers. The infrastructure needed to process the fish no longer exists to any material extent. But the emotional ties of a tough trade are strong. Look at how the mining communities felt about coal.
I think thats right. It seems likely that the ultimate outcome of this is that the fishing rights would just get consolidated in to a few small, largely mechanised/automated companies; using massive trawlers that find the fish by computers. This happened in Iceland through the 1980's, ultimately it led to the decimation of the rural fishing industry, and the consolidation of the wealth (eg the fishing rights) led to a few very rich families, who then became a very powerful lobby group.
How are you going to force people to fish in way that is essentially uneconomic and uncompetitive? It defies all logic.
You can't get the gold back in this regard without giving something else away.
I think that sounds very familiar to miners or those in manufacturing industry. Automation and use of technology will price out local artisans.
I believe that Marx described this phenomenon as the Alienation of Labour.
It's also the law of supply and demand. Supply of labour is unlimited (or at least plentiful), whilst demand for it with increased automation is falling.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
The EU sell 4bn a year of our fish, so the industry could be five times as large if we actually, you know, kept our own property.
The fishing industry certainly are spoilt - they have whole departments of civil servants mobilised to sell them out.
The onshore jobs that used to come with the fish are actually far more numerous than the fishermen themselves. But yet another problem is that we have as a nation got out of the way of eating fish in large quantities. We now prefer meat. Would we really go back if the fish were being landed here?
I think we might, actually.
There's a much greater diversity of fish on restaurants menus now than i remember when I was growing up, and cooked in more interesting and flavoursome ways.
You mean filet-o-fish with or without tartare sauce?
Yuk.
Brexiter advocating increased consumption of fish sneers at what must be huge element of fish consumption, albeit by proles.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
The EU sell 4bn a year of our fish, so the industry could be five times as large if we actually, you know, kept our own property.
The fishing industry certainly are spoilt - they have whole departments of civil servants mobilised to sell them out.
The onshore jobs that used to come with the fish are actually far more numerous than the fishermen themselves. But yet another problem is that we have as a nation got out of the way of eating fish in large quantities. We now prefer meat. Would we really go back if the fish were being landed here?
I think we might, actually.
There's a much greater diversity of fish on restaurants menus now than i remember when I was growing up, and cooked in more interesting and flavoursome ways.
You mean filet-o-fish with or without tartare sauce?
Yuk.
Brexiter advocating increased consumption of fish sneers at what must be huge element of fish consumption, albeit by proles.
Shocked, I tell you.
Not one of your better trolling efforts.
Yet your comment was very telling. In theory advocating something but disliking it in practice.
The Data Protection Act will of course be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation in May and that will still effectively be implemented by the government post Brexit
Yes, but look at the penalties available - could easily shut a smaller company, but probably just the cost of doing business for a Facebook. Similar consideration apply to how onerous the legislation is (though, if you're really small, then it's not as much of an issue.)
And we've seen how proactive the enforcement is for existing regulations when it comes to the Facebooks of this world...
(edit - and there ought to be more of a distinction between companies for whom data is their entire business, and those for whom it is more incidental.)
As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
All those dupes in NE of Scotland will be bemused today, shafted yet again by the Tories , you have to wonder when the penny will drop for the dummies. Farmers should be assuming the position , they will be next in line.
By the next Scottish Parliament elections in May 2021 and the next general election in 2022 we will be fully out of the EU, the transition period will have ended and we will have control over fishing waters again
We won’t. The EU will be able to get access as part of the FTA, and as now they will have us over a barrel.
"Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation."
Forgive my ignorance but McDonnell did say it was cost-free for the government. How does compensation cost nothing?
Could we try it on the EU?
In the case of the railways, they could renationalise the TOCs without compensation when the franchises come up for renewal. That'd be a lengthy process time-wise, but cheap.
However they don't really address the ROSCOs (rolling stock companies), which do own their stock, and would have to be brought out if you want a truly nationalised system. And that would be expensive - you'd have to buy all the trains.
They may want to leave the ROSCOs as they are, but I can foresee conflict happening very quickly in that case - I'm unsure ROSCOs and a nationalised company will fit well together.
If they renationalise the railways, they should renationalise the lot.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
The EU sell 4bn a year of our fish, so the industry could be five times as large if we actually, you know, kept our own property.
The fishing industry certainly are spoilt - they have whole departments of civil servants mobilised to sell them out.
The onshore jobs that used to come with the fish are actually far more numerous than the fishermen themselves. But yet another problem is that we have as a nation got out of the way of eating fish in large quantities. We now prefer meat. Would we really go back if the fish were being landed here?
It's the onshore jobs that are most at risk from Brexit. 13% duty on processed fish if we are outside the CFP. That's why Norway sends its salmon to Scotland to be smoked. We're in the EU (for now).
"Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation."
Forgive my ignorance but McDonnell did say it was cost-free for the government. How does compensation cost nothing?
Could we try it on the EU?
We're currently renting. We're planning to buy. If the mortgage cost is less than the rent - then we are saving money, but also the person who we bought the house from is being compensated.
You're also borrowing a huge amount of money which you weren't before.
The Data Protection Act will of course be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation in May and that will still effectively be implemented by the government post Brexit
Yes, but look at the penalties available - could easily shut a smaller company, but probably just the cost of doing business for a Facebook. Similar consideration apply to how onerous the legislation is (though, if you're really small, then it's not as much of an issue.)
And we've seen how proactive the enforcement is for existing regulations when it comes to the Facebooks of this world...
(edit - and there ought to be more of a distinction between companies for whom data is their entire business, and those for whom it is more incidental.)
No. I have read and heard what the ICO and Information Commissioner and lawyers say and all agree fines will be levied commensurate to the seriousness of the breach and the size of the organisation. The maximum fine will only be levied on companies with billion pound turnovers like Facebook and for major security breaches
"Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation."
Forgive my ignorance but McDonnell did say it was cost-free for the government. How does compensation cost nothing?
Could we try it on the EU?
We're currently renting. We're planning to buy. If the mortgage cost is less than the rent - then we are saving money, but also the person who we bought the house from is being compensated.
You're also borrowing a huge amount of money which you weren't before.
But you own an asset against it, as opposed to throwing money away on renting
As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
All those dupes in NE of Scotland will be bemused today, shafted yet again by the Tories , you have to wonder when the penny will drop for the dummies. Farmers should be assuming the position , they will be next in line.
By the next Scottish Parliament elections in May 2021 and the next general election in 2022 we will be fully out of the EU, the transition period will have ended and we will have control over fishing waters again
We won’t. The EU will be able to get access as part of the FTA, and as now they will have us over a barrel.
We will. A Canada style FTA which is the only thing Tory MPs and the DUP will allow May to get through Parliament, does not require EU control of British fishing waters, does not require free movement and does not require the UK to be a member of the single market and customs union
Fisheries was one of the few 2013-2014 Reviews of the Balance of Competences between the United Kingdom and the European Union that expressed major concerns:
"Respondents to the call for evidence overwhelmingly considered that the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) had failed in the past to achieve key objectives, namely to successfully maintain fish stocks or provide an economically sustainable basis for the industry. Over the last ten years these failings have opened this policy up to significant debate on how well the UK’s national interest is served by the EU’s management of fisheries. "
The CFP is much improved and works reasonably well now. Even the worst form of CFP was better better than how we managed fish stocks before joining the EU (we didn't). I think we should and will work with the CFP, even if we are not formally members of it.
As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
All those dupes in NE of Scotland will be bemused today, shafted yet again by the Tories , you have to wonder when the penny will drop for the dummies. Farmers should be assuming the position , they will be next in line.
By the next Scottish Parliament elections in May 2021 and the next general election in 2022 we will be fully out of the EU, the transition period will have ended and we will have control over fishing waters again
We won’t. The EU will be able to get access as part of the FTA, and as now they will have us over a barrel.
We will. A Canada style FTA which is the only thing Tory MPs and the DUP will allow May to get through Parliament, does not require EU control of British fishing waters, does not require free movement and does not require the UK to be a member of the single market and customs union
We’ll be desperate for a deal and vote through whatever the EU offers us (with Labour support if necessary) Expect significant concessions on fish, free movement and many other areas.
As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
All those dupes in NE of Scotland will be bemused today, shafted yet again by the Tories , you have to wonder when the penny will drop for the dummies. Farmers should be assuming the position , they will be next in line.
By the next Scottish Parliament elections in May 2021 and the next general election in 2022 we will be fully out of the EU, the transition period will have ended and we will have control over fishing waters again
We won’t. The EU will be able to get access as part of the FTA, and as now they will have us over a barrel.
We will. A Canada style FTA which is the only thing Tory MPs and the DUP will allow May to get through Parliament, does not require EU control of British fishing waters, does not require free movement and does not require the UK to be a member of the single market and customs union
We’ll be desperate for a deal and vote through whatever the EU offers us (with Labour support if necessary) Expect significant concessions on fish, free movement and many other areas.
Nope, Tory backbenchers will vote down such a deal as will the DUP and indeed a few Labour Leavers.
Free movement ending even Corbyn accepts as he does leaving the EEA
I don't know much about the industry and you clearly do but I don't get this. Someone sells you their house. You live in it and organise your life around it. N years later, his children say they want it back, at no charge. You say "fair enough"? Unless the permits were indeed time-limited, why is it fair?
Hmmm... Someone [the State] sells you their [rail, water, telecoms, etc industry] . You organise your [pension] around it. N years later, [a Labour Chancellor] says they want it back, at no charge. You say "fair enough"? Why is it fair?
It wouldn't be. Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation.
Just magic money certificates.... Good luck with that!
What the fishermen want now is effectively to be given the right to fish that their fathers sold back which is fair enough. After all these quotas are simply man made permits and they were never guaranteed to last forever. There are some practical issues of whether there are enough boats left to fish the UK waters but no doubt more could be built/acquired over time. On one view this will be a bit of a windfall for these communities but on the other they have been royally shafted by people who didn't care about them very much.
I don't think a continuation of the status quo for a year or two is going to be the end of the world for these communities but they do expect their gold back. The number of Scottish Tory MPs who have promised it to them exceeds May's majority even with the DUP. She needs to be very careful about this.
Do I remember someone saying we could have our cake and eat it?
Tbh I think that there is a great deal of fantasy about this. These industries and communities have already been destroyed as have their traditions. Fishing is a brutally hard way to earn a living. The current generation have neither the skills nor the inclination to undertake that work in large numbers. The infrastructure needed to process the fish no longer exists to any material extent. But the emotional ties of a tough trade are strong. Look at how the mining communities felt about coal.
I think thats right. It seems likely
How are you going to force people to fish in way that is essentially uneconomic and uncompetitive? It defies all logic.
You can't get the gold back in this regard without giving something else away.
I think that sounds very familiar to miners or those in manufacturing industry. Automation and use of technology will price out local artisans.
I believe that Marx described this phenomenon as the Alienation of Labour.
It's also the law of supply and demand. Supply of labour is unlimited (or at least plentiful), whilst demand for it with increased automation is falling.
And you wonder why wages haven't increased much?
Except that wage growh has happened elsewhere. Shrinking real wages is a UK penomenon:
In my own health sector, we have a 10% unfillable vacancy rate, yet declining real terms wages for a decade. This is not supply and demand, it is government policy.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
The EU sell 4bn a year of our fish, so the industry could be five times as large if we actually, you know, kept our own property.
The fishing industry certainly are spoilt - they have whole departments of civil servants mobilised to sell them out.
The onshore jobs that used to come with the fish are actually far more numerous than the fishermen themselves. But yet another problem is that we have as a nation got out of the way of eating fish in large quantities. We now prefer meat. Would we really go back if the fish were being landed here?
I think we might, actually.
There's a much greater diversity of fish on restaurants menus now than i remember when I was growing up, and cooked in more interesting and flavoursome ways.
You mean filet-o-fish with or without tartare sauce?
Yuk.
Brexiter advocating increased consumption of fish sneers at what must be huge element of fish consumption, albeit by proles.
Shocked, I tell you.
Not one of your better trolling efforts.
Yet your comment was very telling. In theory advocating something but disliking it in practice.
Not really. I like fish. I'd like to see more fish and types of fish more widely enjoyed at lower prices. I don't like McDonald's Fillet-o-fish. I do like fish and chips.
Anything else is in your mind, probably because you sensed a chance to have a dig at Brexiters.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
Fisheries was one of the few 2013-2014 Reviews of the Balance of Competences between the United Kingdom and the European Union that expressed major concerns:
"Respondents to the call for evidence overwhelmingly considered that the Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) had failed in the past to achieve key objectives, namely to successfully maintain fish stocks or provide an economically sustainable basis for the industry. Over the last ten years these failings have opened this policy up to significant debate on how well the UK’s national interest is served by the EU’s management of fisheries. "
The CFP is much improved and works reasonably well now. Even the worst form of CFP was better better than how we managed fish stocks before joining the EU (we didn't). I think we should and will work with the CFP, even if we are not formally members of it.
I strongly disagree with that. The CFP is flawed, unfair and unsustainable. A lot on fisheries was given away originally by Ted Heath - deliberately - in 1972 to sweeten the pill for our accession, so some of your assertions are simply incorrect.
I expect Gove will focus on marine conversation, give the UK greater sovereignty over fish stocks in our inshore waters (particularly 0-12 mile range), and more broadly draft a "blue" Brexit approach to sustainability in UK 200-mile waters, but, of course, there will be an international element to managing fishing stocks and there has to be: fish swim and move about.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet? The glass half full approach would be to say, yippee, this doesn't just revitalise British fishing, but British shipbuilding too.
Been wondering about fishermen and the CFP. What is the structure of the fishing industry? Is it like many other ‘industries’ my own included where what were once small businesses have now been swallowed up into conglomerates. The traditional fishing boat, I understand was a sort of co-operative, with the skipper owning the boat and taking the lions share of any sales with a declining share of that take being allocated down the scale. If, of course the skippers are now renting, or ‘managing' their boats, could be that whoever sold the quotas spent their time in a warm office in Aberdeen, Grimsby or Lowestoft while the actual fishermen were working for wages out at sea.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet? The glass half full approach would be to say, yippee, this doesn't just revitalise British fishing, but British shipbuilding too.
But you would pretty much be starting from gound zero. And the investment required is going to need to know that the UK waters are for UK trawlers.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet? The glass half full approach would be to say, yippee, this doesn't just revitalise British fishing, but British shipbuilding too.
I’m not an expert on this at all, but I do know that places like Grimsby have few to no realistic hopes of economic revival. Fishing and fish processing is surely the only thing they (could) have.
This means that, despite the very small impact on the economy, we actively ought to reinvest in our fishing industry to turn places like Grimsby around.
If that means rebuilding a trawler fleet, why not? I should have thought its Dunkirkian overtones were perfectly aligned with the zeitgeist.
That guy's a bit of a crank so beware. He embellishes his brief role in the Portuguese government and his main conviction is that he is smarter than everyone else.
That guy's a bit of a crank so beware. He embellishes his brief role in the Portuguese government and his main conviction is that he is smarter than everyone else.
He’s doing a great job promoting his book, though. I have a copy but find the prose a bit clunky.
"Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation."
Forgive my ignorance but McDonnell did say it was cost-free for the government. How does compensation cost nothing?
Could we try it on the EU?
We're currently renting. We're planning to buy. If the mortgage cost is less than the rent - then we are saving money, but also the person who we bought the house from is being compensated.
You're also borrowing a huge amount of money which you weren't before.
But you own an asset against it, as opposed to throwing money away on renting
This is what has got the UK into so much trouble. The expectation of a constantly rising housing market.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
The Data Protection Act will of course be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation in May and that will still effectively be implemented by the government post Brexit
Yes, but look at the penalties available - could easily shut a smaller company, but probably just the cost of doing business for a Facebook. Similar consideration apply to how onerous the legislation is (though, if you're really small, then it's not as much of an issue.)
And we've seen how proactive the enforcement is for existing regulations when it comes to the Facebooks of this world...
(edit - and there ought to be more of a distinction between companies for whom data is their entire business, and those for whom it is more incidental.)
No. I have read and heard what the ICO and Information Commissioner and lawyers say and all agree fines will be levied commensurate to the seriousness of the breach and the size of the organisation. The maximum fine will only be levied on companies with billion pound turnovers like Facebook and for major security breaches
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
Perhaps we could get Spanish immigrants to do it. Still quite high unemployment there.
The Data Protection Act will of course be replaced by the General Data Protection Regulation in May and that will still effectively be implemented by the government post Brexit
Yes, but look at the penalties available - could easily shut a smaller company, but probably just the cost of doing business for a Facebook. Similar consideration apply to how onerous the legislation is (though, if you're really small, then it's not as much of an issue.)
And we've seen how proactive the enforcement is for existing regulations when it comes to the Facebooks of this world...
(edit - and there ought to be more of a distinction between companies for whom data is their entire business, and those for whom it is more incidental.)
No. I have read and heard what the ICO and Information Commissioner and lawyers say and all agree fines will be levied commensurate to the seriousness of the breach and the size of the organisation. The maximum fine will only be levied on companies with billion pound turnovers like Facebook and for major security breaches
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
"Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation."
Forgive my ignorance but McDonnell did say it was cost-free for the government. How does compensation cost nothing?
Could we try it on the EU?
It costs nothing because you pay back the cost of buying the asset with the revenue from owning the asset. This does sort-of work, especially if the markets carry on wanting to lend the government money for free.
Where it falls down is if you try to hold that thought in your head at the same time as the justification for doing it, which is supposed to be to stop these evil private corporations from running the services to maximize profit at the expense of the unfortunate citizenry. Obviously once you stop doing that, you lose the revenue that was supposed to pay for the asset.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
Perhaps we could get Spanish immigrants to do it. Still quite high unemployment there.
I was going to suggest that in my original post....
Alternatively, we can turn Fraserburgh and Grimsby into research hubs for unmanned fishing boat research. Those towns would benefit from some decent coffee shops that would arrive with the influx of techies.
What the fishermen want now is effectively to be given the right to fish that their fathers sold back which is fair enough. After all these quotas are simply man made permits and they were never guaranteed to last forever. There are some practical issues of whether there are enough boats left to fish the UK waters but no doubt more could be built/acquired over time. On one view this will be a bit of a windfall for these communities but on the other they have been royally shafted by people who didn't care about them very much.
I don't think a continuation of the status quo for a year or two is going to be the end of the world for these communities but they do expect their gold back. The number of Scottish Tory MPs who have promised it to them exceeds May's majority even with the DUP. She needs to be very careful about this.
Do I remember someone saying we could have our cake and eat it?
Tbh I think that there is a great deal of fantasy strong. Look at how the mining communities felt about coal.
I think thats right. It seems likely
How are you going to force people to fish in way that is essentially uneconomic and uncompetitive? It defies all logic.
You can't get the gold back in this regard without giving something else away.
I think that sounds very familiar to miners or those in manufacturing industry. Automation and use of technology will price out local artisans.
I believe that Marx described this phenomenon as the Alienation of Labour.
It's also the law of supply and demand. Supply of labour is unlimited (or at least plentiful), whilst demand for it with increased automation is falling.
And you wonder why wages haven't increased much?
Except that wage growh has happened elsewhere. Shrinking real wages is a UK penomenon:
In my own health sector, we have a 10% unfillable vacancy rate, yet declining real terms wages for a decade. This is not supply and demand, it is government policy.
The biggest wage growth came in Poland as so many of them moved West and here especially and sent money back while domestic workers in UK with no transition controls on free movement in 2004 saw wages fall.
GPs are of course amongst the highest paid professionals, many on 6 figures. Nurses will get a pay rise oncr ahreed with unions
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
Maritime safety regulations are far more stringent now (SOLAS V) which would make deep sea fishing a more expensive proposition. I don't think it's going to be feasible for a proliferation of owner/operators and we're more likely to see commercial fleets owned by large corporations.
And, yes, it's a fucking terrible job. I was once on a boarding party that went aboard one on the Dogger Bank in February and I wanted to shoot the crew and fire the trawler just out of pity. Below deck was like being in a dark, wildly pitching tiny caravan that stank of fish guts, WD40 and spunk.
What the fishermen want now is effectively to be given the right to fish that their fathers sold back which is fair enough. After all these quotas are simply man made permits and they were never guaranteed to last forever. There are some practical issues of whether there are enough boats left to fish the UK waters but no doubt more could be built/acquired over time. On one view this will be a bit of a windfall for these communities but on the other they have been royally shafted by people who didn't care about them very much.
I don't think a continuation of the status quo for a year or two is going to be the end of the world for these communities but they do expect their gold back. The number of Scottish Tory MPs who have promised it to them exceeds May's majority even with the DUP. She needs to be very careful about this.
Do I remember someone saying we could have our cake and eat it?
Tbh I think that there is a great deal of fantasy strong. Look at how the mining communities felt about coal.
I think thats right. It seems likely
How are you going to force people to fish in way that is essentially uneconomic and uncompetitive? It defies all logic.
You can't get the gold back in this regard without giving something else away.
I think that sounds very familiar to miners or those in manufacturing industry. Automation and use of technology will price out local artisans.
I believe that Marx described this phenomenon as the Alienation of Labour.
It's also the law of supply and demand. Supply of labour is unlimited (or at least plentiful), whilst demand for it with increased automation is falling.
And you wonder why wages haven't increased much?
Except that wage growh has happened elsewhere. Shrinking real wages is a UK penomenon:
In my own health sector, we have a 10% unfillable vacancy rate, yet declining real terms wages for a decade. This is not supply and demand, it is government policy.
The biggest wage growth came in Poland as so many of them moved West and here especially and sent money back while domestic workers in UK with no transition controls on free movement in 2004 saw wages fall.
GPs are of course amongst the highest paid professionals, many on 6 figures. Nurses will get a pay rise oncr ahreed with unions
Be careful about confusing gross with net when you refer to GP salaries. GP’s run small businesses, employing staff and with other overheads. Some assistance is given with those costs, of course.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
Perhaps we could get Spanish immigrants to do it. Still quite high unemployment there.
Let's get the mines open again while we're at it. Powering onwards and upwards along the value added path.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
Like veg picking round Boston (lincs).
Oddly enough, I was walking past Littleport last week and there were a couple of vehicles in fields with pickers in them - the long ones with curtain sides. I've no idea what they were picking by hand at this time of year? Or may they have been planting by hand?
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8xk9v3/watch-cambridge-analyticas-ceo-offer-to-entrap-political-opponents-with-sex-workers-video Nix speaks of setting up fake IDs, websites, and identities in target countries to gather information and blackmail material. Former Cambridge Analytica employees have admitted to The Guardian of working on tourist visas during Trump’s election campaign. Cambridge Analytica, Nix says, can subcontract—to Israeli spy firms, for example—and operate under different names for extra layers of obfuscation. Turnbull mentions an unnamed Eastern European country where the company “ghosted in,” and then disappeared after the job was done...
I knew Bertie (Nix) growing up. He was a prat, a wanker and a shyster. I’d be surprised if he was a crook.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
The EU sell 4bn a year of our fish, so the industry could be five times as large if we actually, you know, kept our own property.
The fishing industry certainly are spoilt - they have whole departments of civil servants mobilised to sell them out.
The onshore jobs that used to come with the fish are actually far more numerous than the fishermen themselves. But yet another problem is that we have as a nation got out of the way of eating fish in large quantities. We now prefer meat. Would we really go back if the fish were being landed here?
I think we might, actually.
There's a much greater diversity of fish on restaurants menus now than i remember when I was growing up, and cooked in more interesting and flavoursome ways.
You mean filet-o-fish with or without tartare sauce?
Yuk.
Brexiter advocating increased consumption of fish sneers at what must be huge element of fish consumption, albeit by proles.
Shocked, I tell you.
Not one of your better trolling efforts.
Yet your comment was very telling. In theory advocating something but disliking it in practice.
' In New Zealand and the United Kingdom Filet-O-Fish contains hoki instead of Alaska pollock. '
As Filet-O-Fish seem to contain fish imported from the opposite side of the planet then their consumption does nothing to help the UK fishing industry.
So CR's reaction was, inadvertently or not, the correct one.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
I suspect that the more exploitative fishermen and the Guardian would demand indentured immigrant labour from the third world.
“Jacob Rees-Mogg to fling fish from trawler on Thames in protest for fishermen 'betrayed' by May's Brexit deal”
Worthy of the The Daily Mash or The Onion. Perhaps Bob Geldof can organise a rival protest and retrieve the fish?
I'm not sure where the moral hierarchies lie in this sort of thing, but isn't there something gross about the wasting food and polluting a river just for a bit of grandstanding? Would throwing lamb carcasses into landfill as a protest be acceptable?
I also thought the evilness of the EU's fish discard policy was one of the great totems of the Brexit religion.
Seems to me the basic problem with fishing is that everyone - Brits or others - wants to catch more fish than is sustainable. In an ideal world we'd just close our waters to EVERYBODY until 2022, then decide on a limited basis where our domestic trawlers could fish.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
It would be a bad thing to recreate a British trawler fleet?.
You going to take on a job as a deep sea fisherman then? UK fishing collapsed largely because people stopped wanting to do it as it was dangerous, smelly and unsocial.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
Perhaps we could get Spanish immigrants to do it. Still quite high unemployment there.
Let's get the mines open again while we're at it. Powering onwards and upwards along the value added path.
Mining was actually a well paid job, at least in its final few decades.
As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
Yes, ridiculous that such floundering around could knock Mrs May off her perch....
Its a good step forward though apart from the fish.
and the concession on EU citizens during transition
Oh and the NI Border
But apart from that
Oh and the single market and customs union albeit while losing its role in any decision-making institutions.
and the fact that people like IDS say “There does seem to be a real concern … It appears that at least through the implementation period nothing will change and I think that will be a concern and the government clearly has to deal with that because a lot of MPs are very uneasy about that right now
But apart from that!!
BINO point in bothering at all soon!
LOL good one.
Hard BREXIT looking doomed Isay doooommmmeeeedd.
We will get all the "benefits" of a hard Brexit whilst paying much more to be outside the EU. Soft is best and soft Tory the bestest.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
If they were in the city rather than mainly in Scotland it would be a different story. Lying cheating toerag Tories you cannot trust them unless you are a rich city gent.
What the fishing saga tells us, as well as that with the NI border in the divorce agreement in December last year, is just how London centric HMG and the civil service are.
Financial services and new tech start-ups barely need a second mention, but they do seem to need to be reminded there are other parts of the UK a long way away. These also have MPs who, although they want to support the Government, might not necessarily see their interests being bottom of the list in quite the same way.
Certainly HMG and the civil service are London centric.
But the idea that the fishing industry is neglected by govt? It employs c. 10,000 people and is worth about 1 billion pounds. So a fraction of say the hairdresser industry or the pet food market.
Yet they generate national headlines, get Ministers going to Brussels to fight for their quotas, have divisions of civil servants mobilised to produce statistics and lobby for them.
The EU sell 4bn a year of our fish, so the industry could be five times as large if we actually, you know, kept our own property.
The fishing industry certainly are spoilt - they have whole departments of civil servants mobilised to sell them out.
The onshore jobs that used to come with the fish are actually far more numerous than the fishermen themselves. But yet another problem is that we have as a nation got out of the way of eating fish in large quantities. We now prefer meat. Would we really go back if the fish were being landed here?
I think we might, actually.
There's a much greater diversity of fish on restaurants menus now than i remember when I was growing up, and cooked in more interesting and flavoursome ways.
But its a delicious treat, not a staple. I remember seeing a contract by which the employer had to agree that he would not feed the employees on his estate salmon more than 5x a week! And this was before the tasteless farmed rubbish we have today.
Look at any supermarket. There are aisles of meat both in its original form and processed. And a fish counter. Its niche.
Yes, well, we have unsustainable fishing practices and quota systems to thank for that.
I'm actually very confident Michael Gove will come up with good proposal on this. He's very good at that. The White Paper/draft bill later this year will be interesting.
I suspect he simply hasn't got round to it yet, having hitherto focused very largely on the environment and agriculture.
Brexit carries a massive workload.
Gove is like all the Tories, more faces than the town clock.
On fishing the reality is that a generation of fishermen, many Scottish, were given the gold of fishing quotas. They, in large part, sold that gold and retired in some comfort. The people who bought the gold were largely foreign and mainly Spanish who bought up the right to fish in what had been British waters. This had devastating effects on north east Scottish communities (and no doubt other such communities elsewhere). Not only were there not the jobs for the potential fishermen of the next generation but the Spanish trawlers took their catch back to their home ports largely wiping out the fish processing jobs as well. It really isn't accurate to say that British fishermen sell their product to the EU (shell fishermen being an exception), they simply aren't British in the first place.
The UK government did try to stop this process which led to the Factortame case where the ECJ directed the HoL to overrule an Act of Parliament as being illegal. Trying to stop it was not compatible with the Single Market and that is why the children of that generation were so keen to leave it.
What the fishermen want now is effectively to be given the right to fish that their fathers sold back which is fair enough. After all these quotas are simply man made permits and they were never guaranteed to last forever. There are some practical issues of whether there are enough boats left to fish the UK waters but no doubt more could be built/acquired over time. On one view this will be a bit of a windfall for these communities but on the other they have been royally shafted by people who didn't care about them very much.
I don't think a continuation of the status quo for a year or two is going to be the end of the world for these communities but they do expect their gold back. The number of Scottish Tory MPs who have promised it to them exceeds May's majority even with the DUP. She needs to be very careful about this.
LOL, and the Scottish sockpuppets will do anything about it , come on David. As much chance of them voting in Scotland's interests as me being Gunga Din.
As I mentioned earlier, fishing has a place in the British psyche far beyond its economic importance. Rees-Mogg and these other rotters know exactly what they're doing: today was supposed to be Theresa's big EU triumph and they're making it all about fish and belittling it. What a nasty, disloyal, petulant bunch of spoilsports they really are.
All those dupes in NE of Scotland will be bemused today, shafted yet again by the Tories , you have to wonder when the penny will drop for the dummies. Farmers should be assuming the position , they will be next in line.
By the next Scottish Parliament elections in May 2021 and the next general election in 2022 we will be fully out of the EU, the transition period will have ended and we will have control over fishing waters again
LOL, yes EU control , sold down the river yet again
UK is Billy no mates , why would EU countries give a fig , they will make some sympathetic noises and do nothing. Tories will bluster a bit more and let it drop.
Comments
Shocked, I tell you.
"Labour is not proposing nationalisation without compensation."
Forgive my ignorance but McDonnell did say it was cost-free for the government. How does compensation cost nothing?
Could we try it on the EU?
But the basic point of that post still stands - it was deeply unpleasant IMO. There is no evidence the Clinton campaign misused data in the same way as CA has, and to say the difference is only 'goodies' and 'baddies' is crass. In my mind that's not explaining, but deeply unpleasant smearing.
If the mortgage cost is less than the rent - then we are saving money, but also the person who we bought the house from is being compensated.
And you wonder why wages haven't increased much?
No further comment necessary
And we've seen how proactive the enforcement is for existing regulations when it comes to the Facebooks of this world...
(edit - and there ought to be more of a distinction between companies for whom data is their entire business, and those for whom it is more incidental.)
However they don't really address the ROSCOs (rolling stock companies), which do own their stock, and would have to be brought out if you want a truly nationalised system. And that would be expensive - you'd have to buy all the trains.
They may want to leave the ROSCOs as they are, but I can foresee conflict happening very quickly in that case - I'm unsure ROSCOs and a nationalised company will fit well together.
If they renationalise the railways, they should renationalise the lot.
Worthy of the The Daily Mash or The Onion. Perhaps Bob Geldof can organise a rival protest and retrieve the fish?
Free movement ending even Corbyn accepts as he does leaving the EEA
Just magic money certificates.... Good luck with that!
https://goo.gl/images/w2BZE6
In my own health sector, we have a 10% unfillable vacancy rate, yet declining real terms wages for a decade. This is not supply and demand, it is government policy.
Anything else is in your mind, probably because you sensed a chance to have a dig at Brexiters.
https://twitter.com/macaesbruno/status/975877556577718282
Seems like Corbyn’s channeling our European “allies”.
Except, we don't have any trawlers. There are no UK trawlers operating out of Grimsby these days, for instance. And much of that which is landed in UK harbours is exporte dto France and Spain. Fishing has always been one of the less convincing aspects of Brexit, unless you want to recreate a British trawler fleet.
I expect Gove will focus on marine conversation, give the UK greater sovereignty over fish stocks in our inshore waters (particularly 0-12 mile range), and more broadly draft a "blue" Brexit approach to sustainability in UK 200-mile waters, but, of course, there will be an international element to managing fishing stocks and there has to be: fish swim and move about.
The traditional fishing boat, I understand was a sort of co-operative, with the skipper owning the boat and taking the lions share of any sales with a declining share of that take being allocated down the scale.
If, of course the skippers are now renting, or ‘managing' their boats, could be that whoever sold the quotas spent their time in a warm office in Aberdeen, Grimsby or Lowestoft while the actual fishermen were working for wages out at sea.
I really don’t know, but wonder.
This means that, despite the very small impact on the economy, we actively ought to reinvest in our fishing industry to turn places like Grimsby around.
If that means rebuilding a trawler fleet, why not? I should have thought its Dunkirkian overtones were perfectly aligned with the zeitgeist.
Despite the romantic attachment to it, there is not going to be a rush of people wanting to take up employment come Brexit.
Where it falls down is if you try to hold that thought in your head at the same time as the justification for doing it, which is supposed to be to stop these evil private corporations from running the services to maximize profit at the expense of the unfortunate citizenry. Obviously once you stop doing that, you lose the revenue that was supposed to pay for the asset.
Alternatively, we can turn Fraserburgh and Grimsby into research hubs for unmanned fishing boat research. Those towns would benefit from some decent coffee shops that would arrive with the influx of techies.
GPs are of course amongst the highest paid professionals, many on 6 figures. Nurses will get a pay rise oncr ahreed with unions
And, yes, it's a fucking terrible job. I was once on a boarding party that went aboard one on the Dogger Bank in February and I wanted to shoot the crew and fire the trawler just out of pity. Below deck was like being in a dark, wildly pitching tiny caravan that stank of fish guts, WD40 and spunk.
It still seems unlikely, but all other combinations are even more unlikely.
What they could conceivably do is agree a few short term policy agreements and commit to another election.
https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/975873165682503681
If they get it right, I've promised £100 to charity.
NEW THREAD
That explains a lot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filet-O-Fish
As Filet-O-Fish seem to contain fish imported from the opposite side of the planet then their consumption does nothing to help the UK fishing industry.
So CR's reaction was, inadvertently or not, the correct one.
I also thought the evilness of the EU's fish discard policy was one of the great totems of the Brexit religion.