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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » You can’t fault Corbyn’s ambition in going to Trafford to laun

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited March 22 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » You can’t fault Corbyn’s ambition in going to Trafford to launch Labour local election campaign

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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,114
    edited March 22
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Lq7HWWYxfhvh-9FH655q0ClnwHrY508bImlQbJKS28E/edit?usp=sharing here is Trafford - essentially Labour have to take up to Altrincham in order to gain control, whereas the Tories need to hold both Daveyholmes.

    If the result is somewhere between these (Or 3rd parties make gains) then it is NOC.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,114
    I think Labour needs to win Trafford if it is to be "heading toward government" in 2022.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    It won't matter in London, but I suspect Corbyn's comments over Salisbury might damage Labour's local election chances in places like Trafford.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    edited March 22
    While Corbyn is clearly being ambitious there is a risk that in going for traditionally Tory councils like Trafford, Wandsworth, Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster etc if the Tories hold on they can use those flagship councils to tell the story of the night.

    Given Labour had a 2% lead in the 2014 Locals anyway unlike the 2017 general election when they started 7% behind and with current polls putting them neck and neck with the Tories that is a risk.
  • I’m on the 11/1.

    I suspect it’ll be close but no cigar.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,743
    There's a bomb scare at CA's offices.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,956

    In terms of NEV share, I'd expect the Conservatives and Labour to finish within one or two per cent of each other.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    "Expect to hear a lot more than usual about this year’s local elections for the simple fact that the London boroughs are voting and this tends to alert the London based media into realising that elections are actually taking place. The only problem is that they will focus on the London boroughs and perhaps not give the same attention to what’s happening outside."

    Brexit in a nutshell?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 8,584

    It won't matter in London, but I suspect Corbyn's comments over Salisbury might damage Labour's local election chances in places like Trafford.

    I doubt Salisbury will make a difference unless the government actually does anything. Most things that people think ought to matter, turn out not to.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    Betting on local elections is a difficult one. In metropolitan areas, like London, the Corbynite base will be pumped up and fully charged.

    Elsewhere, I expect turnout to be lower and for this to hit Labour's share disproportionately more than the Conservatives: the oldies always turnout, whereas the Hard-Working Families(TM) and thirty-somethings will probably have better things to do.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    Sean_F said:


    In terms of NEV share, I'd expect the Conservatives and Labour to finish within one or two per cent of each other.

    If Labour lead by less than 2%, the 2 main parties are tied or the Tories have a lead that would be a swing to the Tories since 2014 and could see the Tories make net gains from Labour
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,413
    Corbyn to Trafford is like Burnley FC to Old Trafford and winning 5:0 ....

    There's a thought .... :smile:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,188

    It won't matter in London, but I suspect Corbyn's comments over Salisbury might damage Labour's local election chances in places like Trafford.

    I seriously doubt that. Corbyn is teflon.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,114
    Newcastle Under Lyme will be an interesting council to watch.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    MaxPB said:

    It won't matter in London, but I suspect Corbyn's comments over Salisbury might damage Labour's local election chances in places like Trafford.

    I seriously doubt that. Corbyn is teflon.
    The polls already show a small movement.

    Corbyn isn’t invincible. Tories shouldn’t venerate or fear him too much. He’s a politician with his strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824

    MaxPB said:

    It won't matter in London, but I suspect Corbyn's comments over Salisbury might damage Labour's local election chances in places like Trafford.

    I seriously doubt that. Corbyn is teflon.
    The polls already show a small movement.

    Corbyn isn’t invincible. Tories shouldn’t venerate or fear him too much. He’s a politician with his strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else.
    Well he did fail to beat May yes
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,114
    Doubt it'll make any overall difference but there might be some general decent anti-incumbent swings with the bumped up council tax bills landing on people's mats.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,385
    Labour could lose seats in Leeds. All seats up for grabs, so split-ticket voting could cost Labour in wards where we currently hold all 3 seats.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938

    The polls already show a small movement.

    Corbyn isn’t invincible. Tories shouldn’t venerate or fear him too much. He’s a politician with his strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else.

    This time last year everyone thought May was invulnerable. Remind me how that worked out.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938
    HYUFD said:

    While Corbyn is clearly being ambitious there is a risk that in going for traditionally Tory councils like Trafford, Wandsworth, Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster etc if the Tories hold on they can use those flagship councils to tell the story of the night.

    Given Labour had a 2% lead in the 2014 Locals anyway unlike the 2017 general election when they started 7% behind and with current polls putting them neck and neck with the Tories that is a risk.

    Classic pro-Conservative spin worthy of Kenneth Baker from 1990. "CON hold Wandsworth" equals a good night for the Conservatives - let's see.

    If 1990 was a good example of results being spun as being contrary to the reality, I'll offer 1999 when, despite having gained more than 1,300 seats, the main story was the Conservatives losing Romsey to the LDs.

    It happens - expectation triumphs perspiration most of the time.

    As to Corbyn starting in Trafford, why not ? The 2017 GE wasn't brilliant for Labour in the North and for all that London may be improving for Corbyn, the North and Midlands aren't and Labour need to get these seats back to win in 2022.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,332



    Corbyn isn’t invincible. Tories shouldn’t venerate or fear him too much. He’s a politician with his strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else.

    Corbyn didn't even win last time - never mind invincible!
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,188
    The local elections will be a good test of whether the new voting patterns we saw at the last general election were a one-off or are being entrenched. Trafford is just the sort of area where Labour did disproportionately well last year. I got on the 12/1 on Labour taking Trafford, which I do regard as value.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    stodge said:

    The polls already show a small movement.

    Corbyn isn’t invincible. Tories shouldn’t venerate or fear him too much. He’s a politician with his strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else.

    This time last year everyone thought May was invulnerable. Remind me how that worked out.

    May is still PM?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,609
    Pulpstar said:

    Doubt it'll make any overall difference but there might be some general decent anti-incumbent swings with the bumped up council tax bills landing on people's mats.

    Has pretty much everyone’s council tax bill gone up 6% this year?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    edited March 22
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    While Corbyn is clearly being ambitious there is a risk that in going for traditionally Tory councils like Trafford, Wandsworth, Kensington and Chelsea, Westminster etc if the Tories hold on they can use those flagship councils to tell the story of the night.

    Given Labour had a 2% lead in the 2014 Locals anyway unlike the 2017 general election when they started 7% behind and with current polls putting them neck and neck with the Tories that is a risk.

    Classic pro-Conservative spin worthy of Kenneth Baker from 1990. "CON hold Wandsworth" equals a good night for the Conservatives - let's see.

    If 1990 was a good example of results being spun as being contrary to the reality, I'll offer 1999 when, despite having gained more than 1,300 seats, the main story was the Conservatives losing Romsey to the LDs.

    It happens - expectation triumphs perspiration most of the time.

    As to Corbyn starting in Trafford, why not ? The 2017 GE wasn't brilliant for Labour in the North and for all that London may be improving for Corbyn, the North and Midlands aren't and Labour need to get these seats back to win in 2022.
    Though there are no parliamentary by elections due on May 3rd.

    Labour won 2/3 of the parliamentary seats at the general election in Trafford so so I agree it is certainly worth a shot from Corbyn's perspective.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938
    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,956

    The local elections will be a good test of whether the new voting patterns we saw at the last general election were a one-off or are being entrenched. Trafford is just the sort of area where Labour did disproportionately well last year. I got on the 12/1 on Labour taking Trafford, which I do regard as value.

    The odds for Barnet, OTOH, are daft. Labour are now 1/7.
  • Torby_FennelTorby_Fennel Posts: 294
    Sandpit said:


    Has pretty much everyone’s council tax bill gone up 6% this year?

    Here in Lincoln it's a 4.74% increase overall.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Doubt it'll make any overall difference but there might be some general decent anti-incumbent swings with the bumped up council tax bills landing on people's mats.

    Has pretty much everyone’s council tax bill gone up 6% this year?
    Though much of that going on social care and more police
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 2,669
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938
    HYUFD said:


    Though there are no parliamentary by elections due on May 3rd.

    Labour won 2/3 of the parliamentary seats at the general election in Trafford afford so I agree it is certainly worth a shot from Corbyn's perspective.

    The point is one of emphasis and expectation management. IF you are going to claim a good night for the Conservatives because they hold Trafford, Wandsworth and Westminster while perhaps losing the likes of Kingston, Richmond and Barnet (hypothetically) that's fine but it wouldn't be a good night in reality.

    Labour don't have to win Wandsworth and/or Westminster to have a good evening and the reverse spin we're already seeing from some Conservatives that it will be a bad night if they don't take the flagship boroughs is part of that.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,609
    edited March 22

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Not a fan of PR in general, but much less of a fan of a one-party state. Larger multi-member wards would be a good starting point, and would hopefully encourage good candidates from the minor parties in any area - especially since in the event of a by-election they’d almost certainly lose the seat.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    edited March 22

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Barking and Dagenham and Knowsley are also entirely Labour councils.

    As far as I am aware there is no Tory council without at least 1 opposition councillor?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    Though there are no parliamentary by elections due on May 3rd.

    Labour won 2/3 of the parliamentary seats at the general election in Trafford afford so I agree it is certainly worth a shot from Corbyn's perspective.

    The point is one of emphasis and expectation management. IF you are going to claim a good night for the Conservatives because they hold Trafford, Wandsworth and Westminster while perhaps losing the likes of Kingston, Richmond and Barnet (hypothetically) that's fine but it wouldn't be a good night in reality.

    Labour don't have to win Wandsworth and/or Westminster to have a good evening and the reverse spin we're already seeing from some Conservatives that it will be a bad night if they don't take the flagship boroughs is part of that.

    In terms of the battle against Labour it would be a good night and if the Tories held Barnet too a great night for the blues. Kingston and Richmond are both LD not Labour targets.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,606



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
    Though even Surrey CC has 9 LDs, 9 Residents Association, 1 Green and 1 Labour councillor so is not just a sea of blue even if a big Tory majority

    https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,281
    I feel like the header for the last thread essentially states the obvious. Labour can’t win by relying on non-voters. Given how Momentum/Labour have continued to campaign long after the GE has ended, this doesn’t indicate that they intending to rely on non-voters.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,532
    stodge said:

    The polls already show a small movement.

    Corbyn isn’t invincible. Tories shouldn’t venerate or fear him too much. He’s a politician with his strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else.

    This time last year everyone thought May was invulnerable. Remind me how that worked out.

    Oh, it applies both ways - absolutely.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 2,669
    edited March 22
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Not a fan of PR in general, but much less of a fan of a one-party state. Larger multi-member wards would be a good starting point, and would hopefully encourage good candidates from the minor parties in any area - especially since in the event of a by-election they’d almost certainly lose the seat.
    Here in Hackney, we are saved from an all party state by the Orthodox Jews of Stamford Hill. In disputatious fashion, however, they divide their vote between Conservative and Lib Dem! :)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,426



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
    But not knifing each other as vigorously as the Labour councillors in Newham!
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,640
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Barking and Dagenham and Knowsley are also entirely Labour councils.

    As far as I am aware there is no Tory council without at least 1 opposition councillor?
    Oxford feels very much like a one party state. There are a few LDs and a couple of Greens on the City Council but Labour have been in power for too long here. No opposition. No proper scrutiny.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,188
    I have to say that Islington's Labour councillors have done nothing to deserve their near-monopoly of representation.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,956
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Barking and Dagenham and Knowsley are also entirely Labour councils.

    As far as I am aware there is no Tory council without at least 1 opposition councillor?
    There is no council with 100% Tory representation, although several come very close:-

    Bournemouth 52/54
    East Herts 49/50
    Windsor & Maidenhead 53/57
    Hambleton 28/29
    Mid Sussex 53/54
    New Forest 58/60
    S. Bucks. 27/28.

    Usually, even the most solid Conservative areas will have a few independents and residents.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Barking and Dagenham and Knowsley are also entirely Labour councils.

    As far as I am aware there is no Tory council without at least 1 opposition councillor?
    Oxford feels very much like a one party state. There are a few LDs and a couple of Greens on the City Council but Labour have been in power for too long here. No opposition. No proper scrutiny.
    I have no problem with PR or AV or STV for local elections personally.

    Scottish local elections are already held under STV hence the Tories even elected a councillor in one of the poorest parts of Glasgow last year
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938
    edited March 22
    HYUFD said:


    In terms of the battle against Labour it would be a good night and if the Tories held Barnet too a great night for the blues. Kingston and Richmond are both LD not Labour targets.

    Fair enough. IF the Conservatives only lose two Boroughs (Kingston and Barnet let's say) I'd consider that reasonable for the party. To lose Richmond as well would be unfortunate but possible.

    It's possible but unlikely the Conservatives will gain control of Havering IF they can get UKIP votes en bloc. Assuming Bromley and Bexley are safe, that leaves K&C, Wandsworth, Westminster and Hillingdon.

    To lose one of those four would be unfortunate, to lose two disappointing, to lose three disastrous and to lose all four cataclysmic.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,759
    Just out today

    Hey, kids. Just released Sir Edric and the Plague today. If you're into fantasy and/or comedy, do give it a look. Previous books with Sir Edric have been highly rated, though sales could be better.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07BN2W1L7
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    edited March 22
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Barking and Dagenham and Knowsley are also entirely Labour councils.

    As far as I am aware there is no Tory council without at least 1 opposition councillor?
    There is no council with 100% Tory representation, although several come very close:-

    Bournemouth 52/54
    East Herts 49/50
    Windsor & Maidenhead 53/57
    Hambleton 28/29
    Mid Sussex 53/54
    New Forest 58/60
    S. Bucks. 27/28.

    Usually, even the most solid Conservative areas will have a few independents and residents.
    Yes even if they won't vote Labour safe Tory areas will sometimes vote for the Residents Association, Independents or LDs. While safe Labour areas if they won't vote Tory are more reluctant to vote for 3rd party alternatives
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,385
    HYUFD said:



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
    Though even Surrey CC has 9 LDs, 9 Residents Association, 1 Green and 1 Labour councillor so is not just a sea of blue even if a big Tory majority

    https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
    "Residents Association" = Tories

    See also:

    "Ratepayers" = Tories
    "Independent" = Tory
    "Ourarea Independents" = Tories
    "Local Farmer" = Tory on the Parish Council receiving a taxpayer subsidy to drive a 4x4
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938


    But not knifing each other as vigorously as the Labour councillors in Newham!

    Well, those closest to Sir Robin Wales (and one Councillor in particular) haven't taken his deselection that well. The problem was he had been there for 23 years.

    As Conservatives can attest, it doesn't matter how electorally successful you are as leader, there comes a point when people want or need a change. Perhaps Sir Robin could have retired but he chose not to - Margaret Thatcher could have retired in 1989 after a decade in office, she chose not to.

    In politics, the longer you stay in power, the more likely it is you will be removed if not by the electorate then by your own side.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:


    In terms of the battle against Labour it would be a good night and if the Tories held Barnet too a great night for the blues. Kingston and Richmond are both LD not Labour targets.

    Fair enough. IF the Conservatives only lose two Boroughs (Kingston and Barnet let's say) I'd consider that reasonable for the party. To lose Richmond as well would be unfortunate but possible.

    It's possible but unlikely the Conservatives will gain control of Havering IF they can get UKIP votes en bloc. Assuming Bromley and Bexley are safe, that leaves K&C, Wandsworth, Westminster and Hillingdon.

    To lose one of those four would be unfortunate, to lose two disappointing, to lose three disastrous and to lose all four cataclysmic.

    The loss of those 2 or 3 councils is the most likely result in London so if the Tories held 1 or 2 of them it would be a better than expected result for them certainly.

    If they lose any of the other councils Labour would have more room to cheer and if all 4 of the possible outside chances went it would be a great night for Corbyn in the capital
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 948

    HYUFD said:



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
    Though even Surrey CC has 9 LDs, 9 Residents Association, 1 Green and 1 Labour councillor so is not just a sea of blue even if a big Tory majority

    https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
    "Residents Association" = Tories

    See also:

    "Ratepayers" = Tories
    "Independent" = Tory
    "Ourarea Independents" = Tories
    "Local Farmer" = Tory on the Parish Council receiving a taxpayer subsidy to drive a 4x4
    "Ourarea First" = too argumentative for any party to put up with them, usually more tribal than any party hack.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,824

    HYUFD said:



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
    Though even Surrey CC has 9 LDs, 9 Residents Association, 1 Green and 1 Labour councillor so is not just a sea of blue even if a big Tory majority

    https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
    "Residents Association" = Tories

    See also:

    "Ratepayers" = Tories
    "Independent" = Tory
    "Ourarea Independents" = Tories
    "Local Farmer" = Tory on the Parish Council receiving a taxpayer subsidy to drive a 4x4
    Residents Association candidates in my experience cover everyone from Marxists to ex National Front
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,977
    It seems the EU is going to be excluded from Trump’s sanctions.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,956

    HYUFD said:



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
    Though even Surrey CC has 9 LDs, 9 Residents Association, 1 Green and 1 Labour councillor so is not just a sea of blue even if a big Tory majority

    https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
    "Residents Association" = Tories

    See also:

    "Ratepayers" = Tories
    "Independent" = Tory
    "Ourarea Independents" = Tories
    "Local Farmer" = Tory on the Parish Council receiving a taxpayer subsidy to drive a 4x4
    Independents in most of rural England are usually Tories by another name, but not so in Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Cornwall, or urban areas.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,956
    tpfkar said:

    HYUFD said:



    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.

    Agreed (and argued for it in Parliament, to little avail). I'm now in Surrey, where almost the only visible political action is Tories publicly squabbling with each other.
    Though even Surrey CC has 9 LDs, 9 Residents Association, 1 Green and 1 Labour councillor so is not just a sea of blue even if a big Tory majority

    https://mycouncil.surreycc.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
    "Residents Association" = Tories

    See also:

    "Ratepayers" = Tories
    "Independent" = Tory
    "Ourarea Independents" = Tories
    "Local Farmer" = Tory on the Parish Council receiving a taxpayer subsidy to drive a 4x4
    "Ourarea First" = too argumentative for any party to put up with them, usually more tribal than any party hack.
    Back in 1995, some rural Conservatives who realised that the hammer was about to fall on them, held their seats by cunningly redesignating themselves as "Horticulturalist" "Local Famer" "Businessman" or else Independents.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,640
    I am very much in.favour of local residents and independent groups playing a larger role in local.government. Take the party politics out of it and focus on listening to those you represent and serving your local community. Too many party hacks enjoying the payments for my liking these days
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,462
    edited March 22

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    There are about 10 London councils where Labour could win 100% of the seats, including Lewisham, Southwark, Lambeth, Hackney, Islington, Newham, Barking&Dagenham, Camden.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 866
    Cricket-wise, UAE have pulled off an upset, beating Zimbabwe by 3 runs, and knocking them out of contention for the World Cup. If tomorrow's match between Ireland and Afghanistan has a result, the winner will leapfrog over Zimbabwe to the second qualifying position. If it has no result, Ireland (with equal number of wins and fractionally superior net run rate) will take the second position.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 948
    looks from twitter that Tissue Price has been busy in Leek West for the council by-election today.

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,640
    AndyJS said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    There are about 10 London councils where Labour could win 100% of the seats, including Lewisham, Southwark, Lambeth, Hackney, Islington, Newham, Barking&Dagenham, Camden.
    Then you will have the internal factions coming to the fore. Momentum v the normals (or at least less extreme).
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,462
    edited March 22

    AndyJS said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    There are about 10 London councils where Labour could win 100% of the seats, including Lewisham, Southwark, Lambeth, Hackney, Islington, Newham, Barking&Dagenham, Camden.
    Then you will have the internal factions coming to the fore. Momentum v the normals (or at least less extreme).
    That's true. Not sure what will happen in Haringey. Labour could win all the seats but there could be a backlash against that potential outcome in some of the more middle-class areas that usually elect LDs and they could hang on against the trend.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,609

    I am very much in.favour of local residents and independent groups playing a larger role in local.government. Take the party politics out of it and focus on listening to those you represent and serving your local community. Too many party hacks enjoying the payments for my liking these days

    :+1:

    Agree completely, local politics would benefit from a more co-operative approach to many issues. The ‘one-party state’ councils spend their time arguing with each other rather over functional politics than looking at what’s best for their constituents.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 866

    Cricket-wise, UAE have pulled off an upset, beating Zimbabwe by 3 runs, and knocking them out of contention for the World Cup. If tomorrow's match between Ireland and Afghanistan has a result, the winner will leapfrog over Zimbabwe to the second qualifying position. If it has no result, Ireland (with equal number of wins and fractionally superior net run rate) will take the second position.

    Sorry - actually, thanks to the wonders of NRR, Zimbabwe could still qualify - but ONLY if tomorrow's game is a tie. Both Ireland and Afghanistan should have their NRR drop during a tie, allowing Zimbabwe through. That really would be a freak result, though.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,385

    I am very much in.favour of local residents and independent groups playing a larger role in local.government. Take the party politics out of it and focus on listening to those you represent and serving your local community. Too many party hacks enjoying the payments for my liking these days

    I disagree. When I see a candidate without a political affiliation, my first thought is 'what are you trying to hide?'.

    As for so-called independents who form a faction or slate of candidates, they are just a party by another name.
  • Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure it's been well reported on here but the big local political news in Newham has been the fall of Sir Robin Wales:

    http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/seasonal/election/breaking-councillor-rokhsana-fiaz-beats-sir-robin-wales-to-become-newham-labour-s-next-mayoral-candidate-1-5438468-1-5438468

    His de-selection was more clear cut than I had expected and indeed Councillor Fiaz seems to be flavour of the month locally and seen as a breath of fresh air. Those who enjoyed advancement under Wales are likely to be out on their proverbials in the post-election carve-up of Portfolio holder posts.

    Between a third and a half of the current Labour Group are not going to be on the new Council. A number of older Councillors have retired - to my knowledge seven or eight have not been re-selected but there are one or two former Councillors who, presumably with Wales gone, feel able to come back into the fray.

    None of this matters very much - it's hard to see Councillor Rokhsana Fiaz not winning the Mayoral election on the first round and Labour NOT winning all 60 seats. It will be interesting to see how many candidates other parties can muster - LAB and CON will have full slates but the LDs, Greens and others have to pick their fights more carefully.

    It’s horrendous to have one party take all seats. See also Islington - with one Green doing the entire job of “Opposition”.

    We desperately need proportional representation at a local level.
    Barking and Dagenham and Knowsley are also entirely Labour councils.

    As far as I am aware there is no Tory council without at least 1 opposition councillor?
    There is no council with 100% Tory representation, although several come very close:-

    Bournemouth 52/54
    East Herts 49/50
    Windsor & Maidenhead 53/57
    Hambleton 28/29
    Mid Sussex 53/54
    New Forest 58/60
    S. Bucks. 27/28.

    Usually, even the most solid Conservative areas will have a few independents and residents.
    Windsor and Maidenhead is down to 48 Con now as a number of councillors quit over the council leader's remarks about begging.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,827
    If I am reading this correctly in 2014 Labour got 31% and the Tories 29% of the nev. Of course back then there were a couple of other parties called UKIP and Lib Dem that have now largely disappeared. If we get anything close to national polling Labour are going to be up 8% and the Tories up 13% with a swing to the Tories from Labour of 2.5%.

    This suggests to me that where all those votes are accumulated is going to be key and more than a tad unpredictable. Labour shouldn’t be taking seats directly off the Tories but it is quite possible they will in some regions, the most obvious being London. But for every swing there really ought to be a roundabout.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,609

    Cricket-wise, UAE have pulled off an upset, beating Zimbabwe by 3 runs, and knocking them out of contention for the World Cup. If tomorrow's match between Ireland and Afghanistan has a result, the winner will leapfrog over Zimbabwe to the second qualifying position. If it has no result, Ireland (with equal number of wins and fractionally superior net run rate) will take the second position.

    Yes, awesome result for UAE cricket today, the result of huge efforts put in over the past couple of years. Not that I’m biased or anything...
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,640

    I am very much in.favour of local residents and independent groups playing a larger role in local.government. Take the party politics out of it and focus on listening to those you represent and serving your local community. Too many party hacks enjoying the payments for my liking these days

    I disagree. When I see a candidate without a political affiliation, my first thought is 'what are you trying to hide?'.

    As for so-called independents who form a faction or slate of candidates, they are just a party by another name.
    But they aren't beholden to any existing party hierarchy. They can't be dictated to by a central office. They have to fight harder for votes because they can't rely on a party machine or tribal loyalty.

    For me, greater independence of thought is a good thing. You vote for a candidate who has a greater pressure to actually represent a ward not just be lobby fodder
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,827

    Cricket-wise, UAE have pulled off an upset, beating Zimbabwe by 3 runs, and knocking them out of contention for the World Cup. If tomorrow's match between Ireland and Afghanistan has a result, the winner will leapfrog over Zimbabwe to the second qualifying position. If it has no result, Ireland (with equal number of wins and fractionally superior net run rate) will take the second position.

    Sorry - actually, thanks to the wonders of NRR, Zimbabwe could still qualify - but ONLY if tomorrow's game is a tie. Both Ireland and Afghanistan should have their NRR drop during a tie, allowing Zimbabwe through. That really would be a freak result, though.
    I hope that the Indian bookmakers haven’t latched onto that. They could make a killing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,151
    Trump going for $50 billion from China.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43494001
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 20,827

    Trump going for $50 billion from China.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43494001

    A surprisingly modest number if he is seeking to recoup what China has stolen in IP.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 6,535

    Just out today

    Hey, kids. Just released Sir Edric and the Plague today. If you're into fantasy and/or comedy, do give it a look. Previous books with Sir Edric have been highly rated, though sales could be better.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07BN2W1L7

    Hoorah! I have squandered yet more of the kids inheritance; don't spend it all at once.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,426
    That was the over-enthusiasm referred to. It fell apart within the hour.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,151

    That was the over-enthusiasm referred to. It fell apart within the hour.
    Vince Cable. Making Theresa May look half-way decent since 2017.....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,426

    That was the over-enthusiasm referred to. It fell apart within the hour.
    Vince Cable. Making Theresa May look half-way decent since 2017.....
    It's making Tim Farron look half-way decent which is the most remarkable of his achievements.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,462
    edited March 22
    The Tories won 51/54 seats in Bournemouth in 2015 with just 36.8% of the popular vote.
    http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2015/99/

    Labour won 53/54 seats in Lewisham in 2014 with 43.2%.
    http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/results/2014/27/
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,977
    A smart move by Cable. He wants to make it look like all the European sandal wearers are chucking us out of the EU so that the British public rebels against them by insisting we'll stay as long as we want.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,426

    A smart move by Cable. He wants to make it look like all the European sandal wearers are chucking us out of the EU so that the British public rebels against them by insisting we'll stay as long as we want.

    LOL!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,151

    A smart move by Cable. He wants to make it look like all the European sandal wearers are chucking us out of the EU so that the British public rebels against them by insisting we'll stay as long as we want.

    Good to see you've finally given up on the idea of us Remaining and are just having a laugh at last.....
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,413

    That was the over-enthusiasm referred to. It fell apart within the hour.
    Vince Cable. Making Theresa May look half-way decent since 2017.....
    Damned with faint praise me thinks ....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,114

    A smart move by Cable. He wants to make it look like all the European sandal wearers are chucking us out of the EU so that the British public rebels against them by insisting we'll stay as long as we want.

    Incorrect..


  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,151
    JackW said:

    That was the over-enthusiasm referred to. It fell apart within the hour.
    Vince Cable. Making Theresa May look half-way decent since 2017.....
    Damned with faint praise me thinks ....
    Admittedly, not exactly requiring a Fosbury Flop to clear.....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,114
    I wonder if the Netherlands will consider a swap deal, Rutte for Cable :o
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,609
    The only possible second referendum is on the “Noel Edmunds” question.

    The idea that we shouldn’t leave because it’s too difficult only plays onto the hands of those who wanted us to leave on the first place.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,395

    That was the over-enthusiasm referred to. It fell apart within the hour.
    Vince Cable. Making Theresa May look half-way decent since 2017.....
    To be fair to the befuddled old chap, it's the most coverage the LibDems have got this year.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 2,664

    A smart move by Cable. He wants to make it look like all the European sandal wearers are chucking us out of the EU so that the British public rebels against them by insisting we'll stay as long as we want.

    Good to see you've finally given up on the idea of us Remaining and are just having a laugh at last.....
    Do you think that's physically possible?
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,636
    tpfkar said:

    looks from twitter that Tissue Price has been busy in Leek West for the council by-election today.

    Quite so. They're cautiously optimistic. And pace @Pulpstar earlier I'll be helping in Newcastle-under-Lyme for the main event.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,759
    Mr. M, cheers. Hope you enjoy it.

    Mr. Nabavi, darrr. He be a silly sod.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,114
    Sandpit said:

    The only possible second referendum is on the “Noel Edmunds” question.

    The idea that we shouldn’t leave because it’s too difficult only plays onto the hands of those who wanted us to leave on the first place.
    The case for a rethink on the EU has been put about in entirely the wrong manner. The arguments have seemed to revolve around

    a) Legal chicanery (Jo Maugham, Gina Miller, Liz Webster) (The Art 50 court case was a triumph for the supreme court judiciary in the end - but this was not the intent)
    b) Parliamentary chicanery (Attempting to amend the bill out of sight, unelected House of Lords blocking stuff)
    c) The whole "Its too hard" arguments - 'unsolveability of Ireland', Spain will veto Gibraltar, fisheries etc.

    The referendum was had, article 50 triggered. We have exchanged on the exit (We may well be entangled deeply within the rules of the EU for years afterwards, but this will be our agreement outwith the EU signed as a sovereign nation) and need to head out the door before a genuine positive case can be made for joining the EU again.
    I'm afraid alot of the publicly visible continuity remain campaign has been a nonsense.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,188
    I have to say, love him or hate him, Trump is at least doing something about China's clear and consistent abuses of the global trade system.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,413

    Mr. Nabavi, darrr. He be a silly sod.

    Very harsh on our Nabbers ....

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,151
    Anorak said:

    That was the over-enthusiasm referred to. It fell apart within the hour.
    Vince Cable. Making Theresa May look half-way decent since 2017.....
    To be fair to the befuddled old chap, it's the most coverage the LibDems have got this year.
    In a "point-and-laugh", that's what it takes to get noticed these days kinda way.



This discussion has been closed.