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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » That Survation 7% LAB lead poll looks very much the outlier –

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    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    Absolutely right.
    I guess someone was always going to undercut De La Rue.

    The whole mechanism of passports seems bizarre to me. You would think that when they check my passport when I leave on Eurostar they would put my number on a database and then tick me off when I come back. If someone tries to come back who has never gone then they would be a good one to look at more closely. Is that too niaive ?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    +1 and their CEO is doing themselves few favours now...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    +1 and their CEO is doing themselves few favours now...
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    Gutted to see the rain in Auckland. This England team is going to be robbed of a historic victory.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,985
    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Didn't he lead the fight against pornography?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    edited March 2018
    rkrkrk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Trump won't make it to a second term now. The appointment of Bolton is just such a collosal about turn from his entire campaign on foreign policy. Uuge

    I can't imagine Bolton and Trump lasting long given their different positions.
    But what is the relevance to Trump making it to a second term?
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/555020/ The Atlantic writes the article I would on it. Trump went pretty hard on this during his campaign..
    He's done what he said he would more or less on trade but his foreign policy is a total 180 from the campaign. (Or the appointment of Bolton means it feels like it could well head that way)
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    rcs1000 said:

    Gutted to see the rain in Auckland. This England team is going to be robbed of a historic victory.

    Three more days of rain please!!
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Gutted to see the rain in Auckland. This England team is going to be robbed of a historic victory.

    Three more days of rain please!!

    Late March seems a strange time to be playing test matches in NZ. It’s like playing them in late September in England.

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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610
    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    https://twitter.com/AndrewWeed11/status/977007274534277121?s=19

    Here is why the appointment will cost Trump votes
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610
    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!

    As our old friend Tim points out on Twitter - the real benefits of a private education are enjoyed by the the less intelligent offspring of our moneyed elite, as we can see so spectacularly by the many examples now in positions of political power and influence.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    Absolutely right.
    I guess someone was always going to undercut De La Rue.

    The whole mechanism of passports seems bizarre to me. You would think that when they check my passport when I leave on Eurostar they would put my number on a database and then tick me off when I come back. If someone tries to come back who has never gone then they would be a good one to look at more closely. Is that too niaive ?
    IANAE on such matters, but that seems a sane way of doing things, and not too onerous.

    There will always be edge cases though: when I sailed on a tall ship from Southampton to Dublin, my passport was not checked on leaving or entry. I then flew back, and my passport was checked. That would have shown me entering after not having left. AFAICR no comment was made.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    Absolutely right.
    I guess someone was always going to undercut De La Rue.

    The whole mechanism of passports seems bizarre to me. You would think that when they check my passport when I leave on Eurostar they would put my number on a database and then tick me off when I come back. If someone tries to come back who has never gone then they would be a good one to look at more closely. Is that too niaive ?
    IANAE on such matters, but that seems a sane way of doing things, and not too onerous.

    There will always be edge cases though: when I sailed on a tall ship from Southampton to Dublin, my passport was not checked on leaving or entry. I then flew back, and my passport was checked. That would have shown me entering after not having left. AFAICR no comment was made.
    You'd have thought checking passports would be a good way to count/verify immigration numbers...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    The reason France doesn't put their passports out to International tender is their manufacture is Nationalised, unlike ours.

    Obvious solution for the Brexit Ultras to get British passports printed here. Nationalise De La Rue.

    I am sure Bone, Cash, Redwood and Rees-Mogg would be up for that...
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,715

    dixiedean said:

    Central & Walton (Aylesbury Valey) result:

    LDEM: 40.9% (+18.1)
    CON: 31.5% (-1.1)
    LAB: 19.8% (+0.9)
    GRN: 4.5% (-4.0)
    IND: 3.3% (+3.3)

    Liberal Democrat GAIN from Conservative.

    No UKIP (-17.2) as prev.

    Yellow Kippers.....
    From the Indy May 2014 :
    The “political earthquake” predicted by Nigel Farage looked set to come to fruition as Ukip took more than 150 seats from Labour and the Conservatives in a remarkable performance in the local elections.
    The party made significant gains in Essex, where it gained 11 seats in Basildon to ensure it went from Tory to no overall control. It also secured five in Thurrock to rob Labour of overall control.

    So quite a few UIKIP votes up for grabs this time, it should make the elections quite interesting.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,298
    Is it just me or is Gareth Southgate beginning to look like a younger Jeremy Corbyn?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!

    As our old friend Tim points out on Twitter - the real benefits of a private education are enjoyed by the the less intelligent offspring of our moneyed elite, as we can see so spectacularly by the many examples now in positions of political power and influence.

    I know what you're getting at but
    This is only true for a tiny subset of private schools I think.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    TOPPING said:

    Is it just me or is Gareth Southgate beginning to look like a younger Jeremy Corbyn?

    It's difficult to tell without their hats on ....
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,983
    Pulpstar said:

    rkrkrk said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    Absolutely right.
    I guess someone was always going to undercut De La Rue.

    The whole mechanism of passports seems bizarre to me. You would think that when they check my passport when I leave on Eurostar they would put my number on a database and then tick me off when I come back. If someone tries to come back who has never gone then they would be a good one to look at more closely. Is that too niaive ?
    IANAE on such matters, but that seems a sane way of doing things, and not too onerous.

    There will always be edge cases though: when I sailed on a tall ship from Southampton to Dublin, my passport was not checked on leaving or entry. I then flew back, and my passport was checked. That would have shown me entering after not having left. AFAICR no comment was made.
    You'd have thought checking passports would be a good way to count/verify immigration numbers...
    I have family members with dual British-Thai nationality. They enter Britain with their (British passport-holding) father and Thailand with their (Thai passport-holding) mother.
    Saves on queueing.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    MikeL said:

    "EU and six other countries exempted from US metals tariffs"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43505804

    Never seen the BBC classify the EU as a country before
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    How many of the leading lights on the passport issue, have recently been making a big fuss about the ability of the UK to negotiate Free Trade agreements in the transition period. Or are they completely separate strands. The whole point of free trade is "we take your goods, you take ours". Decisions like this help greatly in the prospect of securing agreements, you would have thought.

    O/T May does appear to have had something of a diplomatic triumph in Brussels.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    Maybe they can come back to HMG with a (much) lower offer? :p
    You have one chance to be honest.
    There’s always a second chance

    (I once had Dan Vasella increase an offer for a business 6 times after the final bid deadline)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Good morning, everyone.

    Indeed, outliers aren't necessarily wrong. Polling consensus in the UK has got both the last two general elections wrong.

    F1: first and second practice done. Looks close, but could be sandbagging. Rain still a factor to consider for both qualifying and race day. Will be perusing the market and writing my first in-season article of the year this morning.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Charles said:

    MikeL said:

    "EU and six other countries exempted from US metals tariffs"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43505804

    Never seen the BBC classify the EU as a country before
    The (countries that make up the) EU and six other countries.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    MPs to get case study in obesity crisis:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/977071099027521538
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Didn't he lead the fight against pornography?
    He chaired a committee on it. But would be surprised if he was on the Mary Whitehouse end (I don’t know but always had the impr soon he was a proper liberal)
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,932

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    +1 and their CEO is doing themselves few favours now...
    It does however encapsulate the state the UK ( aka England ) is in at present, donkeys for politicians , greedy rogues running businesses and both lots robbing the public blind. Rudderless and circling the drain.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    There was definitely an entrance exam to my secondary school, and my prep school gave us dhitloads of common entrance exams so a bit surprised about this
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    This isn’t Brexit - the Mail always writes stories about HMG buying from non U.K. firms. And then they call for lower taxes
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. G, could be worse. At least King John isn't in charge. When he was it was more of a case of being on fire and hurtling towards earth at an alarming rate of knots.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?

    He did indeed.

    The problem with grammar schools is that parents can buy their kids into them through the use of tutors - that also favours the less bright kids of the well-off.

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Charles said:

    MikeL said:

    "EU and six other countries exempted from US metals tariffs"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43505804

    Never seen the BBC classify the EU as a country before
    The Eurozone needs to become a country sooner rather than later if it isn't to collapse.

    Michael Howard's idea of a two speed Europe never went anywhere, but actually it's the only viable option in the longer term.

    The problem is that those drunken Fascists on the EC cannot see it. They still believe in full federation for the entire EEA, which is about as realistic as Corbyn's defence of Putin. Unfortunately they are still clinging to this delusion even after Brexit, which you would have thought would have been their Kronstadt moment.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology. ..
    As I've pointed out before, the statistics for grammar schools are essentially the statistics for Kent, which accounts for a very large percentage of them. And no one, not even May in her running through fields of corn nuttiest, is proposing the replication of the Kent system elsewhere.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    ”It is unknown whether school type boosts either university or career chances,” it says in the sub heading, and that's the whole point - not whether you get GCSE results which are 1% better but whether you get career earnings which are 100% better on the same grades.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    The odds might go down so from that angle it may be worth it, in terms of becoming next Labour leader though I'd imagine those who haven't been quite as vocally against the leader and some of the new members would probably do better. I'd expect it to be a woman though.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    An article on an impeccably conservative website pointing out just how dangerous an ideologue Bolton is:
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/why-a-john-bolton-appointment-is-scarier-than-you-think-mcmaster-trump/
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
    What had Cameron "done" in 2005?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andrew said:


    Do we know what they're paid for the current contract and how that varies from the new contract bids ?

    £400m in 2009, which is about £510m in today's money.

    Apparently the French firm whose name I forget bid £490m this time, De la Rue bid £610m.

    De La Rue took the piss, assuming that the British government would want a British contractor.

    And you know what, if they'd bid £525m, that would be one thing. But they didn't. The bid 20% higher (in real terms), for a contract where they'd already made the capital expenditure, and which should have been cheaper in real terms.

    They behaved poorly and the government was right to take the contract from them.

    (And this is important: we want British firms to win contracts, sure. But we want them to win them by bidding a good price, not by assuming that the will win by default. The signal sent: that the British tax payer will not be taken advantage of, is the right one.)
    +1 and their CEO is doing themselves few favours now...
    Rudderless and circling the drain.
    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/976817838425083904
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,586
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
    She appeals to those who put a premium on combative feistiness.
    Which I'm guessing doesn't include you ? (me either)
    :smile:

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    There was definitely an entrance exam to my secondary school, and my prep school gave us dhitloads of common entrance exams so a bit surprised about this
    Of all the private schools in Staffordshire, only one - Stafford Grammar - is selective. The others will take anyone who will pay. I think this is largely due to pupil numbers (there was a private school in Brewood actually went bust a couple of years ago due to a falling roll and was bought out by a local businessman) but nevertheless that is the way it is.

    The amusing irony is Stafford Grammar invariably comes near the bottom of the league tables every year. In fact last year I think its VA was negative.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    The passports contracts is a distraction. We'll soon have chips implanted, like our pets.... There'll be all sorts of incentives to sign up. Cheaper credit cards (less risk it's not you using the card), quicker queues at airports, it could hold your recent medical history if you are taken ill, it could enable only you to use your phone, your computer, access your security at home...access your driverless car....

    Of course, you could still have a blue chip or a burgundy chip, to your political taste.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    alex. said:

    Charles said:

    MikeL said:

    "EU and six other countries exempted from US metals tariffs"

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43505804

    Never seen the BBC classify the EU as a country before
    The (countries that make up the) EU and six other countries.
    They didn’t say that though. Your wording is totally different (and correct)
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Charles said:

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    This isn’t Brexit - the Mail always writes stories about HMG buying from non U.K. firms. And then they call for lower taxes

    It’s the politics of Brexit. And it’s with us for years to come. Betrayal is a powerful and enduring slogan. It also sells the newspapers that elderly Brexiteers tend to buy.

  • Options
    Watching Theresa May at the EU she seems to be much more confident and well liked by her fellow leaders. She obviously succeeded in the unity shown by the EU leaders and their strong statement.

    Post Brexit I can see a close relationship slowly getting closer and possible re joining sometime in the future, but it is certain Juncker will have gone, and it will not be for some considerable time
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.

    She has absolutely no chance whatsoever. Jon Lansman will decide who the next Labour leader will be. Laura Pidcock is my guess.

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!

    As our old friend Tim points out on Twitter - the real benefits of a private education are enjoyed by the the less intelligent offspring of our moneyed elite, as we can see so spectacularly by the many examples now in positions of political power and influence.

    I know what you're getting at but
    This is only true for a tiny subset of private schools I think.
    I think that the benefit that parents pay for in private education are often not academic, and indeed much the same reason why grammar schools are prized, are more to do with the social element of education.

    I see this when assessing applications for Medical School. There is not currently a shortage of applicants with the requisite academic grades, though the competition is much less than it once was. What we see is the quality of extracurricular activities and also time spent on interview training. The privately schooled have had the connections to gain work experience, to have travelled, to have become socialised to a world where people wear suits and have the social graces and mores. This is also true of Grammar Schools as @ydoethur suggests.

    It is how most of Britain's professions and other "conspiracies against the general public" remain self replicating oligarchies. True of Medicine, sport, Law, Journalism, media, politics, pretty much everywhere. A lot of the diversity that we see is superficial, posh women like Harman, and posh BME Britons. The British establishment is adept at changing just enough to survive and thrive, without changing its fundamentals.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
    What had Cameron "done" in 2005?
    Spent some time on the opposition front bench at least
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.

    She has absolutely no chance whatsoever. Jon Lansman will decide who the next Labour leader will be. Laura Pidcock is my guess.

    Surely Theresa May couldn't be that lucky?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,653

    Charles said:

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    This isn’t Brexit - the Mail always writes stories about HMG buying from non U.K. firms. And then they call for lower taxes

    Betrayal is a powerful and enduring slogan. It also sells the newspapers that elderly Brexiteers tend to buy.
    And is trotted out routinely by Remainers on behalf of the young accusing the old.....
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
    She appeals to those who put a premium on combative feistiness.
    Which I'm guessing doesn't include you ? (me either)
    :smile:

    I quite like combative feistiness. When it is supported by sound analysis.

    Otherwise it’s just barracking :wink: wink:
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    This isn’t Brexit - the Mail always writes stories about HMG buying from non U.K. firms. And then they call for lower taxes

    It’s the politics of Brexit. And it’s with us for years to come. Betrayal is a powerful and enduring slogan. It also sells the newspapers that elderly Brexiteers tend to buy.

    They would have written this story even if we had voted to Remain.

    Not everything is about Brexit...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
    She appeals to those who put a premium on combative feistiness.
    Which I'm guessing doesn't include you ? (me either)
    :smile:

    I quite like combative feistiness. When it is supported by sound analysis.

    Otherwise it’s just catty :wink:
    To the best of my knowledge she is the only Solicitor General to be convicted of a felony while in office.

    She was also the person who totally buggered up Labour's response to the BSE crisis because she had no clue what she was talking about and had done no preparation at all. If you are outsmarted by Steven Dorrell on the floor of the House, you really are a bit of a loser.

    Why she thinks she would make a good Speaker I do not know.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Hmm. Only about half Ladbrokes' markets are up, so may be a delay to any tips/betting thoughts appearing.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610

    The passports contracts is a distraction. We'll soon have chips implanted, like our pets.... There'll be all sorts of incentives to sign up. Cheaper credit cards (less risk it's not you using the card), quicker queues at airports, it could hold your recent medical history if you are taken ill, it could enable only you to use your phone, your computer, access your security at home...access your driverless car....

    Of course, you could still have a blue chip or a burgundy chip, to your political taste.

    As foretold in the Book of Revalations 13:16-7:

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Doethur, come on. You've just described her repeatedly overestimating herself, yet say you don't know why she thinks she'd be a good Speaker.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
    She appeals to those who put a premium on combative feistiness.
    Which I'm guessing doesn't include you ? (me either)
    :smile:

    I quite like combative feistiness. When it is supported by sound analysis.

    Otherwise it’s just catty :wink:
    To the best of my knowledge she is the only Solicitor General to be convicted of a felony while in office.

    She was also the person who totally buggered up Labour's response to the BSE crisis because she had no clue what she was talking about and had done no preparation at all. If you are outsmarted by Steven Dorrell on the floor of the House, you really are a bit of a loser.

    Why she thinks she would make a good Speaker I do not know.
    We were talking about Jess

    (As an aside, Harriet Harman is the only person my mother has ever punched)
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    This isn’t Brexit - the Mail always writes stories about HMG buying from non U.K. firms. And then they call for lower taxes

    It’s the politics of Brexit. And it’s with us for years to come. Betrayal is a powerful and enduring slogan. It also sells the newspapers that elderly Brexiteers tend to buy.

    They would have written this story even if we had voted to Remain.

    Not everything is about Brexit...

    Blue passports is all about Brexit. Ask the Prime Minister.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931

    Charles said:

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    This isn’t Brexit - the Mail always writes stories about HMG buying from non U.K. firms. And then they call for lower taxes

    Betrayal is a powerful and enduring slogan. It also sells the newspapers that elderly Brexiteers tend to buy.
    And is trotted out routinely by Remainers on behalf of the young accusing the old.....

    As I say, it is an immensely powerful political slogan.

  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Diane Abbott, Harriet Harman and many more Labour luvvies are fully on board.... but maybe not when it comes to their children.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    edited March 2018
    It's rare I find myself agreeing with Sophie in ' t Veld!

    This offer must be grasped before it is withdrawn. Juncker has been an utter disaster for the EU and indeed Europe as a whole on every level. Cameron was quite right to try and block him and it's a real shame the Germans didn't listen.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    There was definitely an entrance exam to my secondary school, and my prep school gave us dhitloads of common entrance exams so a bit surprised about this
    Of all the private schools in Staffordshire, only one - Stafford Grammar - is selective. The others will take anyone who will pay. I think this is largely due to pupil numbers (there was a private school in Brewood actually went bust a couple of years ago due to a falling roll and was bought out by a local businessman) but nevertheless that is the way it is.

    The amusing irony is Stafford Grammar invariably comes near the bottom of the league tables every year. In fact last year I think its VA was negative.
    Isn't my old school, Denstone College, selective? AFAIAA you still need to sit entrance exams?

    Or is 'selective' defined differently?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.
    Lots of people talk about Jess Phillips as great stuff but it’s completely passed me by. I see the occadional loud mouthed and not particularly insightful comment.

    What’s she actually done that makes her a good candidate?
    She appeals to those who put a premium on combative feistiness.
    Which I'm guessing doesn't include you ? (me either)
    :smile:

    I quite like combative feistiness. When it is supported by sound analysis.

    Otherwise it’s just catty :wink:
    To the best of my knowledge she is the only Solicitor General to be convicted of a felony while in office.

    She was also the person who totally buggered up Labour's response to the BSE crisis because she had no clue what she was talking about and had done no preparation at all. If you are outsmarted by Steven Dorrell on the floor of the House, you really are a bit of a loser.

    Why she thinks she would make a good Speaker I do not know.
    We were talking about Jess

    (As an aside, Harriet Harman is the only person my mother has ever punched)
    Ah.

    May I apologise to Jess Phillips?

    Mr Dancer, that is a shrewd point. I had not thought of this.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    Also true that wrt grammar schools there is a considerable added value in performnace scores which the tables tend not to measure.
  • Options

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    This isn’t Brexit - the Mail always writes stories about HMG buying from non U.K. firms. And then they call for lower taxes

    It’s the politics of Brexit. And it’s with us for years to come. Betrayal is a powerful and enduring slogan. It also sells the newspapers that elderly Brexiteers tend to buy.

    They would have written this story even if we had voted to Remain.

    Not everything is about Brexit...

    Blue passports is all about Brexit. Ask the Prime Minister.
    Just done a you gov on the passport
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Pulpstar said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Trump won't make it to a second term now. The appointment of Bolton is just such a collosal about turn from his entire campaign on foreign policy. Uuge

    I can't imagine Bolton and Trump lasting long given their different positions.
    But what is the relevance to Trump making it to a second term?
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/555020/ The Atlantic writes the article I would on it. Trump went pretty hard on this during his campaign..
    He's done what he said he would more or less on trade but his foreign policy is a total 180 from the campaign. (Or the appointment of Bolton means it feels like it could well head that way)
    I reckon Trump could get his supporters on board with a war if he wanted to.
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited March 2018

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.

    She has absolutely no chance whatsoever. Jon Lansman will decide who the next Labour leader will be. Laura Pidcock is my guess.

    I don't think it would be quite as simple as a Momentum pick but between a few left wing candidates, with the AV voting system they might back more than one candidate. I would imagine there would be more than one candidate running sympathetic to them at least.

    The problem with Jess is part of the profile she has built has been from attacking Corbyn. Given his popularity within the party it seems unlikely they would vote her. Not impossible admittedly but it seems unlikely.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,328

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    I’m going to say it one more time: stop saying loons.

    Multiple people have rebuked you countless times for this, and yet you still persist.

    Stop it.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    Foxy said:

    The passports contracts is a distraction. We'll soon have chips implanted, like our pets.... There'll be all sorts of incentives to sign up. Cheaper credit cards (less risk it's not you using the card), quicker queues at airports, it could hold your recent medical history if you are taken ill, it could enable only you to use your phone, your computer, access your security at home...access your driverless car....

    Of course, you could still have a blue chip or a burgundy chip, to your political taste.

    As foretold in the Book of Revalations 13:16-7:

    16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

    17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    I can see the marketing campaign now "Get chipped: it's a revelation...."
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    You have to admire their persistence, I guess. But all sides know there’s going to be a deal and that the EU will define its parameters.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    There was definitely an entrance exam to my secondary school, and my prep school gave us dhitloads of common entrance exams so a bit surprised about this
    Of all the private schools in Staffordshire, only one - Stafford Grammar - is selective. The others will take anyone who will pay. I think this is largely due to pupil numbers (there was a private school in Brewood actually went bust a couple of years ago due to a falling roll and was bought out by a local businessman) but nevertheless that is the way it is.

    The amusing irony is Stafford Grammar invariably comes near the bottom of the league tables every year. In fact last year I think its VA was negative.
    Isn't my old school, Denstone College, selective? AFAIAA you still need to sit entrance exams?

    Or is 'selective' defined differently?
    As I understand it the entrance exams are to determine the level of fees rather than the offer itself. I could be wrong, however that is normal for the group Denstone is in.

    I suppose that depends on how you define 'selective.' I would say, only offering places to hand picked students. Others might say, varying conditions on a case by case basis.

    I think @Foxy has a point. However, my experience of comprehensive schooling as a pupil and a teacher is that actually it's very difficult for the ablest to do well, if only because many of them (I am not going to say all) have a very anti-intellectual atmosphere. And I am not just talking about the children either. I cherish the school in Exeter who turned me down for a job because 'he's clearly far too bright to be a teacher.'

    Have a good morning everyone.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?

    He did indeed.

    The problem with grammar schools is that parents can buy their kids into them through the use of tutors - that also favours the less bright kids of the well-off.

    The problem with all schools is that having wealthy and pushy parents gives their offspring untold advantages - twas ever thus and short of something akin to a 'Brave New world' politics twill always be so.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.

    She has absolutely no chance whatsoever. Jon Lansman will decide who the next Labour leader will be. Laura Pidcock is my guess.

    The MPs and the membership will decide - and I'd argue Jon Lansman has limited influence with both. Momentum has a membership of 37,000 out of 570,000.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,115
    edited March 2018

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    I’m going to say it one more time: stop saying loons.

    Multiple people have rebuked you countless times for this, and yet you still persist.

    Stop it.
    It's a classy bird, your loon:

    http://www.audubon.org/field-guide/bird/common-loon

    (Although, we Brits call them divers....)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,926

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    There was definitely an entrance exam to my secondary school, and my prep school gave us dhitloads of common entrance exams so a bit surprised about this
    Of all the private schools in Staffordshire, only one - Stafford Grammar - is selective. The others will take anyone who will pay. I think this is largely due to pupil numbers (there was a private school in Brewood actually went bust a couple of years ago due to a falling roll and was bought out by a local businessman) but nevertheless that is the way it is.

    The amusing irony is Stafford Grammar invariably comes near the bottom of the league tables every year. In fact last year I think its VA was negative.
    Isn't my old school, Denstone College, selective? AFAIAA you still need to sit entrance exams?

    Or is 'selective' defined differently?
    Have you found the private school magic money tree yet :o
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,231
    felix said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    Also true that wrt grammar schools there is a considerable added value in performnace scores which the tables tend not to measure.
    No, I was referring to value added and so were the authors of the report.

    However, grammar schools, taking the ablest, do often have very little value left to add. An A* student gets an A*, value added 0. An E grade student gets a C, value added 2. That is perhaps another point to bear in mind.

    That said, straight a* students are pretty rare.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    German polling appears to show the SPD slightly recovering and the AFD slipping back, hough sill above their election result. All MOE though.

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.

    She has absolutely no chance whatsoever. Jon Lansman will decide who the next Labour leader will be. Laura Pidcock is my guess.

    I don't think it would be quite as simple as a Momentum pick but between a few left wing candidates, with the AV voting system they might back more than one candidate. I would imagine there would be more than one candidate running sympathetic to them at least.

    The problem with Jess is part of the profile she has built has been from attacking Corbyn. Given his popularity within the party it seems unlikely they would vote her. Not impossible admittedly but it seems unlikely.
    If you look on Twitter the Corbynites hate her, as they do all moderates.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    edited March 2018

    I thought it was only miserable, sour-faced Remoaners who were bothered about the passports ...

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5533937/Furious-backlash-post-Brexit-passports-overseas.html

    The reaction from the loons shows that Brexit will not walk softly and slowly into the long night on 30th March 2019. There will be a significant constituency for BETRAYAL!!!! for years to come - especially given the deal we are likely to end up with.

    I’m going to say it one more time: stop saying loons.

    Multiple people have rebuked you countless times for this, and yet you still persist.

    Stop it.

    No.

    Loons is very apt for Howl at the Moon, destructive Brexiteers - the ones who would sacrifice jobs and living standards to get the Leave they want. It sets them apart from the more pragmatic Brexit backers.

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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,610

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.

    She has absolutely no chance whatsoever. Jon Lansman will decide who the next Labour leader will be. Laura Pidcock is my guess.

    I don't think it would be quite as simple as a Momentum pick but between a few left wing candidates, with the AV voting system they might back more than one candidate. I would imagine there would be more than one candidate running sympathetic to them at least.

    The problem with Jess is part of the profile she has built has been from attacking Corbyn. Given his popularity within the party it seems unlikely they would vote her. Not impossible admittedly but it seems unlikely.
    Clearly Jess is no Corbynite, but she is hardly a rightwinger either. I do not think that Jezza will get to name his succesor, partly because Labour members do not like being controlled in who they vote for, but also because when Jezza leaves he will not be flavour of the month. All political careers end in failure, and failures do not get to anoint their successors.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Schools -- around here, there are many, many shops which have been turned into after-hours tuition centres. I've not seen them mentioned in any of the debates on schooling.
  • Options
    One of the Russians who developed the nerve agent has said on Sky this morning he is 99% certain they will not survive once the life support is switched off

    The remarkable thing about the interview was that he did not disguise himself on screen and was speaking from Russia
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,215
    rkrkrk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    rkrkrk said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think Trump won't make it to a second term now. The appointment of Bolton is just such a collosal about turn from his entire campaign on foreign policy. Uuge

    I can't imagine Bolton and Trump lasting long given their different positions.
    But what is the relevance to Trump making it to a second term?
    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/555020/ The Atlantic writes the article I would on it. Trump went pretty hard on this during his campaign..
    He's done what he said he would more or less on trade but his foreign policy is a total 180 from the campaign. (Or the appointment of Bolton means it feels like it could well head that way)
    I reckon Trump could get his supporters on board with a war if he wanted to.
    Morning all,

    Very sadly, I think the US may well be slipping towards war with Trump in charge.

    About to start "Destined for War" this weekend. I expect it to be sobering reading.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?

    He did indeed.

    The problem with grammar schools is that parents can buy their kids into them through the use of tutors - that also favours the less bright kids of the well-off.

    The big barrier to social mobility is that no one is willing to see their own children fail in life.
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited March 2018
    A bit of a contrast to the TUCs unsourced wage growth data from the other day.

    https://twitter.com/rbrharrison/status/976860750957498368

    https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/status/976781180862369793
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    NEW THREAD

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,992
    edited March 2018

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?

    He did indeed.

    The problem with grammar schools is that parents can buy their kids into them through the use of tutors - that also favours the less bright kids of the well-off.

    As opposed to the best comprehensives where parents buy their way into them by buying a house in an expensive catchment area
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    rkrkrk said:

    Foxy said:

    Charles said:

    God I hate people who pretend to be ordinary working class outsiders.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/976915487715201026

    As the niece of the Earl of Longford age is a member of three oppressed minorities
    Rather a hagiography, but perhaps the betting point is that it sounds as if Jess Phillips is going to get Harriet's endorsement. Jess would be great as leader.

    She has absolutely no chance whatsoever. Jon Lansman will decide who the next Labour leader will be. Laura Pidcock is my guess.

    The MPs and the membership will decide - and I'd argue Jon Lansman has limited influence with both. Momentum has a membership of 37,000 out of 570,000.

    The database Lansman’s company owns contains the names of hundreds of thousands of Corbyn backers. Momentum owns the Momentum database.

  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:


    I don't think it would be quite as simple as a Momentum pick but between a few left wing candidates, with the AV voting system they might back more than one candidate. I would imagine there would be more than one candidate running sympathetic to them at least.

    The problem with Jess is part of the profile she has built has been from attacking Corbyn. Given his popularity within the party it seems unlikely they would vote her. Not impossible admittedly but it seems unlikely.
    Clearly Jess is no Corbynite, but she is hardly a rightwinger either. I do not think that Jezza will get to name his succesor, partly because Labour members do not like being controlled in who they vote for, but also because when Jezza leaves he will not be flavour of the month. All political careers end in failure, and failures do not get to anoint their successors.
    Well it does depend on what kind of timeline we are talking about, win or lose the election I don't see Corbyn hanging around for a long time. Maybe the rest of this parliament and a full term in government (should he win). I wouldn't expect him to get to handpick his successor either, which was sort of my point regarding Momentum but unless something happens to really discredit Corbyn or that approach or we have a very long time before the next leadership election I think a lot of those on the left of the party will not vote for her.

    I wouldn't say it would be her political positioning that is the problem, although I would fancy a quite left wing candidate. More her quite high profile confrontational approach to the leadership which would fade with time and doesn't make it impossible but puts her at a disadvantage.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,994
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    It is a very expensive way to add a tenth of a GCSE grade!
    Actually if you read it it is about selective schools, not private schools, although it does mention private selective schools. And it overlooks the minor detail that most private schools are not selective (except by wallet size) although I imagine most of them have bursary and scholarship schemes of one sort or another.

    Typical Daily Mail, can't even get the headline right. Surprised to see Joff and Foxy not thinking through the real implications, which are to shoot grammar schools' credibility, before going off on one.

    It is also worth pointing out however that the alterations that have been made are pretty subjective and I would be dubious about accepting the overall conclusions without doing more analysis on the methodology.

    WRT Tim, did he note Corbyn as a classic example of his point?
    There was definitely an entrance exam to my secondary school, and my prep school gave us dhitloads of common entrance exams so a bit surprised about this
    Of all the private schools in Staffordshire, only one - Stafford Grammar - is selective. The others will take anyone who will pay. I think this is largely due to pupil numbers (there was a private school in Brewood actually went bust a couple of years ago due to a falling roll and was bought out by a local businessman) but nevertheless that is the way it is.

    The amusing irony is Stafford Grammar invariably comes near the bottom of the league tables every year. In fact last year I think its VA was negative.
    Isn't my old school, Denstone College, selective? AFAIAA you still need to sit entrance exams?

    Or is 'selective' defined differently?
    Have you found the private school magic money tree yet :o
    Yeah, it's next to the Unicorns' paddock and the Leprechaun's house.
This discussion has been closed.