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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON, the LDs and SNP net gain of one each while LAB finish all

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited March 23 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » CON, the LDs and SNP net gain of one each while LAB finish all square. This week’s local elections

Penicuik on Midlothian (Lab defence) First Preference Votes: SNP 1,663 (35% unchanged on last time), Con 1,433 (30% +4% on last time), Lab 1,310 (28% +2% on last time), Green 344 (7% +1% on last time) (No Lib Dem candidate this time -7%) SNP lead on the first count of 230 on a swing of 2% from SNP to Con Estimated Lib Dem split: 57% to Con, 29% to Lab, 14% to Green No candidate elected on first count, Green candidate eliminated Second count: Green Transfers Con 1,496 +36, Lab 1,414 +104, SNP 1,803 +140 No candidate elected on second count, Lab candidate eleminated Third count: Lab transfers Con 1,788 +319, SNP 2,237 +434 SNP GAIN from Labour on the third count

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Comments

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    1 banana
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    2 banana
  • 3 banana, 4.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    Ridgeway on Chiltern swing nailed on to be reproduced nationwide come May.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,984
    Mr Z going bananas.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    The rumble over the passports is still going on? This is laying it on the thickest, from what I've seen.

    Conservative peer Lord Naseby said it would have a major adverse effect on "the whole of British industry, and the British people as they face Brexit

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43512378
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,984
    Jeremy Corbyn sacks Labour's Owen Smith over referendum call
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43521321
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,828
    Hurrah for the drawing of lots.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765

    Jeremy Corbyn sacks Labour's Owen Smith over referendum call
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43521321

    Leader sacks subordinate advocating non-party policy?
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 5,984
    kle4 said:

    Jeremy Corbyn sacks Labour's Owen Smith over referendum call
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43521321

    Leader sacks subordinate advocating non-party policy?

    @OwenSmith_MP
    Just been sacked by @jeremycorbyn for my long held views on the damage #Brexit will do to the Good Friday Agreement & the economy of the entire U.K. Those views are shared by Labour members & supporters and I will continue to speak up for them, and in the interest of our country.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,969
    Remainers for Corbyn having a bad night :)
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 621
    Don't see how Corbyn can ever support a second referendum now. Labour people who thought he might slowly be moving in that direction must be disappointed.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    TGOHF said:

    Remainers for Corbyn having a bad night :)

    Too bad there's nowhere else for remainers to go. Unless...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    Dow Jones and Nasdaq plummeting like a pair of paralyzed falcons, again. Facebook in the shit + China trade war = perfect storm.

    On Cambridge Analytica, with so much jiggery pokery going on I'm surprised the timing has been Get search warrant -> announce grant of search warrant -> search, rather than get search warrant by private and secret application -> search (for which there is a perfectly good procedure - called an Anton Piller order when I were a lad).
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 152
    TGOHF said:

    Remainers for Corbyn having a bad night :)

    At some point his coalition of voters has to crumble. It really does. The question is just whether it lasts long enough to give him a taste of power.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 621
    ab195 said:

    TGOHF said:

    Remainers for Corbyn having a bad night :)

    At some point his coalition of voters has to crumble. It really does. The question is just whether it lasts long enough to give him a taste of power.
    Nah. The moderates just don't have it in them. They'll just take their medicine and fall into line.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,462
    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 22,620
    kle4 said:

    The rumble over the passports is still going on? This is laying it on the thickest, from what I've seen.

    Conservative peer Lord Naseby said it would have a major adverse effect on "the whole of British industry, and the British people as they face Brexit

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43512378

    This is going to be my last rant on this.

    Why do we care about the legal domicile of the parent company?

    De La Rue PLC might be a British company, but its biggest shareholder, with 10% of the firm is Brandes who are a Southern California firm, with a customer base that is largely American. The largest shareholder of Gemalto with 8.5%, on the other hand, is the Quebec State pension fund. It's perfectly possible for a firm to have a UK domicile but be owned largely by American hedge funds, or an Italian listing, and to be owned by British pensioners.

    Ahhh, but it's where the work's done, this is £500m leaving the British economy.

    Whoever gets the contract, a chunk of it will be going overseas, even if all the printing happened in the UK. The wood will have come from Scandinavia, and therefore (in all likelihood) the paper will be made there. The RFID chip that records your identity? Well, it's going to come out of a semiconductor fabrication plant that's... not in the UK.

    The actual printing process is going to be a fairly small part of the £500m.

    And whoever prints them is going to need to have at least one UK printing press, because there is a requirement to do turnaround in a couple of hours for those with urgent needs.

    So, in the case of Gemalto getting the contract, they will spend the same money (abroad) on paper and the RFID chip as De La Rue, and they will also need to have at least one printing press in the UK. And if De La Rue gets it, there's no guarantee that slow turnaround passports will not be printed in Malta.

    This case is a simple one. De La Rue took the piss with their bid. The fact that their headquarters are in the UK does not excuse a price 20% higher. (Bear in mind that they will have the same paper, leather, plastic, ink and RFID costs as Gemalto. These firms prices should have been within 2-4% of each other. And De La Rue should have been cheaper given it already has the production lines in place, and has made the capital expenditure.) Gemalto should be given the contract to demonstrate that the British government does not accept substandard bids, even from British firms.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,462
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Ridgeway on Chiltern swing nailed on to be reproduced nationwide come May.

    Ridgeway ought to be a nailed-on Labour seat if you look at the demographics.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 13,413
    I fear there will be tears before bedtime for the little Dutch mascot girl at the Netherlands v England football match ....

    Of course she may have been indicating a 2:2 draw ....
  • dyingswandyingswan Posts: 148
    At last.Clarity for all Labour Remainers in London. Corbyn is a Brexiteer. Always was. Still is. Do you get it yet?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,019
    edited March 23
    On the results given in the lead, the Tories are square, NOT up one...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,014
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    The rumble over the passports is still going on? This is laying it on the thickest, from what I've seen.

    Conservative peer Lord Naseby said it would have a major adverse effect on "the whole of British industry, and the British people as they face Brexit

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43512378

    This is going to be my last rant on this.

    Why do we care about the legal domicile of the parent company?

    De La Rue PLC might be a British company, but its biggest shareholder, with 10% of the firm is Brandes who are a Southern California firm, with a customer base that is largely American. The largest shareholder of Gemalto with 8.5%, on the other hand, is the Quebec State pension fund. It's perfectly possible for a firm to have a UK domicile but be owned largely by American hedge funds, or an Italian listing, and to be owned by British pensioners.

    Ahhh, but it's where the work's done, this is £500m leaving the British economy.

    Whoever gets the contract, a chunk of it will be going overseas, even if all the printing happened in the UK. The wood will have come from Scandinavia, and therefore (in all likelihood) the paper will be made there. The RFID chip that records your identity? Well, it's going to come out of a semiconductor fabrication plant that's... not in the UK.

    The actual printing process is going to be a fairly small part of the £500m.

    And whoever prints them is going to need to have at least one UK printing press, because there is a requirement to do turnaround in a couple of hours for those with urgent needs.

    So, in the case of Gemalto getting the contract, they will spend the same money (abroad) on paper and the RFID chip as De La Rue, and they will also need to have at least one printing press in the UK. And if De La Rue gets it, there's no guarantee that slow turnaround passports will not be printed in Malta.

    This case is a simple one. De La Rue took the piss with their bid. The fact that their headquarters are in the UK does not excuse a price 20% higher. (Bear in mind that they will have the same paper, leather, plastic, ink and RFID costs as Gemalto. These firms prices should have been within 2-4% of each other. And De La Rue should have been cheaper given it already has the production lines in place, and has made the capital expenditure.) Gemalto should be given the contract to demonstrate that the British government does not accept substandard bids, even from British firms.
    +1

    And from a political point of view, dare Labour to suggest it should be given to DLR and then use it as an example of how willing they are to spend taxpayers money unnecessarily.

  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 621
    dyingswan said:

    At last.Clarity for all Labour Remainers in London. Corbyn is a Brexiteer. Always was. Still is. Do you get it yet?

    Apparently not.
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 621
    Dan Jarvis, Owen Smith, Murals, just another happy day in the Labour Party. No doubt BJO will be along soon to explain how marvellous it all is.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021
    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,422
    Twitter is great .... the response to this tweet is to ask for proof that Corbyn looked at the picture.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,969
    dyingswan said:

    At last.Clarity for all Labour Remainers in London. Corbyn is a Brexiteer. Always was. Still is. Do you get it yet?

    Do Labour voters love the EU more than they hate Jews ?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938
    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,977
    TGOHF said:

    dyingswan said:

    At last.Clarity for all Labour Remainers in London. Corbyn is a Brexiteer. Always was. Still is. Do you get it yet?

    Do Labour voters love the EU more than they hate Jews ?
    Do Tory Brexiteers hate the EU more than they hate being useful idiots for the hard left?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 22,462
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.

    The Tories missed out on control of Northumberland council last May when they lost a drawing by lots to the Liberal Democrats in the South Blyth council seat.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765

    Twitter is great .... the response to this tweet is to ask for proof that Corbyn looked at the picture.

    Well of course whatever the truth of his actions the key is not whether his explanation is plausible, but if it is plausible enough for enough of his supporters to believe, and is it plausible enough for opponents of his who know they cannot defeat him to justify doing nothing.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 17,969

    TGOHF said:

    dyingswan said:

    At last.Clarity for all Labour Remainers in London. Corbyn is a Brexiteer. Always was. Still is. Do you get it yet?

    Do Labour voters love the EU more than they hate Jews ?
    Do Tory Brexiteers hate the EU more than they hate being useful idiots for the hard left?
    Didn’t really work that one William - have another go.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 11,505
    TGOHF said:

    Remainers for Corbyn having a bad night :)

    Wonder what Dr Palmer thinks? :D
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    stodge said:



    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    I've often wondered the same, several different methods seem to be used, but is there a place where the courts have drawn the line? Could the returning officer say that to decide how to break the tie he wants the candidates to arm wrestle?

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.

    Euro today - 1.15 - 16th June 2016 - 1.22 equals circa 6% down or 7 cents

    Facts are important
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938


    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece

    There's been plenty of bluster, bravado and big talk from the Government but I've yet to see much evidence of a serious response.

    The tit-for-tat expulsion of diplomats is par for the course but what about some serious sanction on the oligarch friends of Putin ? At least Trump has tried but the EU and the UK have so far been more about words than action.

    The time taken to do anything will allow some individuals to ensure the impact of any measures is limited at best and in truth more for domestic political consumption.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    kle4 said:

    stodge said:



    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    I've often wondered the same, several different methods seem to be used, but is there a place where the courts have drawn the line? Could the returning officer say that to decide how to break the tie he wants the candidates to arm wrestle?

    I believe the only stipulation is that it has to be by lot. So arm wrestling is out.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    edited March 23
    stodge said:


    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece

    There's been plenty of bluster, bravado and big talk from the Government but I've yet to see much evidence of a serious response.
    That may well be so, which rather makes those getting concerned about a government overreaction, and painting talking against the supposed overreaction as the height of good sense, as not making a great deal of sense, unfortunately. As you say, time taken will probably blunt much substantive response, but then it seems to have been recognised that options are limited.

    Frankly, Corbyn's biggest issue has not been what his official position is, now anyway, but that some have been praising what they think his position is, ie that he doubts the government conclusion, and we all know people get judged by who backs them, sometimes fairly, sometimes not. If he does doubt the conclusion, that is not his official stance, but makes his calls for caution as if there has been much beyond harsh words, rather silly.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    stodge said:


    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece

    There's been plenty of bluster, bravado and big talk from the Government but I've yet to see much evidence of a serious response.

    The tit-for-tat expulsion of diplomats is par for the course but what about some serious sanction on the oligarch friends of Putin ? At least Trump has tried but the EU and the UK have so far been more about words than action.

    The time taken to do anything will allow some individuals to ensure the impact of any measures is limited at best and in truth more for domestic political consumption.
    Tonight England health advised anyone in the pub or restaurant on the sunday and monday should hand back clothing to the local authority and receive compensation as any residual nerve agent could impregnate the skin

    And you try to play this down in the hope that it will all go away - it will not and it will go on for months
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,977
    stodge said:

    The tit-for-tat expulsion of diplomats is par for the course but what about some serious sanction on the oligarch friends of Putin ? At least Trump has tried but the EU and the UK have so far been more about words than action.

    “Trump has tried”? Are you serious?

    I was interested to see that Dominic Cummings published a document today which mentions the phenomenon of Kippery Lib Dems. It could have been written about you.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 8,545

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    It’s only 830 and we're already past the Friday night lager shed on PB .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    Ishmael_Z said:

    kle4 said:

    stodge said:



    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    I've often wondered the same, several different methods seem to be used, but is there a place where the courts have drawn the line? Could the returning officer say that to decide how to break the tie he wants the candidates to arm wrestle?

    I believe the only stipulation is that it has to be by lot. So arm wrestling is out.
    So anything where the outcome is suitably random I suppose? There have to be some very interesting scenarios that could cover, and returning officers should be encouraged to use them.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    It’s only 830 and we're already past the Friday night lager shed on PB .
    Well the football is boring
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,836
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.

    FWIW Caz have just deployed 25% on a cash reserve my foundation had into equities...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.

    FWIW Caz have just deployed 25% on a cash reserve my foundation had into equities...
    Brave.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Not the public perception nor the majority of his MP's
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,801

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    Speaking as no great lover of Corbyn, yes.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    kle4 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    kle4 said:

    stodge said:



    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    I've often wondered the same, several different methods seem to be used, but is there a place where the courts have drawn the line? Could the returning officer say that to decide how to break the tie he wants the candidates to arm wrestle?

    I believe the only stipulation is that it has to be by lot. So arm wrestling is out.
    So anything where the outcome is suitably random I suppose? There have to be some very interesting scenarios that could cover, and returning officers should be encouraged to use them.
    Roulette with only one number allocated to each candidate, if you wanted to spin it out (see what I did there?), or first to throw heads 10 times in a row.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Not the public perception nor the majority of his MP's
    Nope, not the spin of the haters, just his own words and opinions:

    "Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights.

    However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent."
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Not the public perception nor the majority of his MP's
    Nope, not the spin of the haters, just his own words and opinions:

    "Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights.

    However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent."
    Still not the public's perception or his mps

    And the football is boring
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021
    England desperately in need of a decent creative midfielder, and an alternative to Harry Kane. This setup has no cutting edge.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Its arguing against a position - that there have been hasty judgements that might lead to a new cold war - that does not exist. It's not the outright doubting of the likely culpability that some of his opponents - and supporters - think, but it is manufacturing a position for no reason, since the government hasn't overreacted, and as stodge points out, some would suggest not really done all that much as of yet. So why does he think there have been hasty judgements that might lead to a new cold war, which is his implication? Stern talk is the very opposite of an overreaction if we believe Russia actively attacked us or was so criminally negligent. Does he think harsh language is an overreaction to that? Who could possibly think even a dumb statement from a minister to the Russians, who use dumb, sarcastic statements all the time in their diplomacy, will lead to a new cold war? The russians would have been more conciliatory if we accused them of premeditated murder or culpability in assassination in a more polite fashion? Corbyn believes that?

    I don't think he is that stupid, frankly.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Not the public perception nor the majority of his MP's
    Nope, not the spin of the haters, just his own words and opinions:

    "Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights.

    However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent."
    Still not the public's perception or his mps

    And the football is boring
    I think Jezza is used to being misrepresented by his opponents, it is nothing new.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,836
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.

    FWIW Caz have just deployed 25% on a cash reserve my foundation had into equities...
    Brave.
    75% still in cash (we went all cash in December)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Not the public perception nor the majority of his MP's
    Nope, not the spin of the haters, just his own words and opinions:

    "Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights.

    However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent."
    Still not the public's perception or his mps

    And the football is boring
    I think Jezza is used to being misrepresented by his opponents, it is nothing new.
    No it isn't, but his actual position is actually pretty silly for different reasons.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,836
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Not the public perception nor the majority of his MP's
    Nope, not the spin of the haters, just his own words and opinions:

    "Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights.

    However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent."
    I thought you believed important stuff should be said in Parliament not in the media?
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,046
    dyingswan said:

    At last.Clarity for all Labour Remainers in London. Corbyn is a Brexiteer. Always was. Still is. Do you get it yet?

    Yes - but he wants to stay in a customs union but not the customs union and he wants all the benefits of the single market but not be subject to its state aid rules and anything else which might subvert socialism.

    As they might say in inner London momentum circles - he wants to have his avocado toast and eat it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used
    I think that you
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Its arguing against a position - that there have been hasty judgements that might lead to a new cold war - that does not exist. It's not the outright doubting of the likely culpability that some of his opponents - and supporters - think, but it is manufacturing a position for no reason, since the government hasn't overreacted, and as stodge points out, some would suggest not really done all that much as of yet. So why does he think there have been hasty judgements that might lead to a new cold war, which is his implication? Stern talk is the very opposite of an overreaction if we believe Russia actively attacked us or was so criminally negligent. Does he think harsh language is an overreaction to that? Who could possibly think even a dumb statement from a minister to the Russians, who use dumb, sarcastic statements all the time in their diplomacy, will lead to a new cold war? The russians would have been more conciliatory if we accused them of premeditated murder or culpability in assassination in a more polite fashion? Corbyn believes that?

    I don't think he is that stupid, frankly.
    Considering the media has been asking for a fortnight "is this the start of a new Cold War?" it is perfectly reasonable to say that is not the road that we should travel, and that maintaining dialogue matters while applying sanctions that hurt the Putin oligarchs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.
    Surely those are not the only options? Yes people get caricatured by their opponents, and political ideological terms like left and right are not as well defined as people act like they are, but does that mean we should accept people are whatever they claim? As imperfect as labels are, and certainly when used by opponents, they have some merit. Plenty of people don't self identify as racists, but their actions speak otherwise.

    For what it is worthy I don't think Corbyn is a communist.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021
    Charles said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?

    Not the public perception nor the majority of his MP's
    Nope, not the spin of the haters, just his own words and opinions:

    "Labour is of course no supporter of the Putin regime, its conservative authoritarianism, abuse of human rights or political and economic corruption. And we pay tribute to Russia’s many campaigners for social justice and human rights, including for LGBT rights.

    However, that does not mean we should resign ourselves to a “new cold war” of escalating arms spending, proxy conflicts across the globe and a McCarthyite intolerance of dissent."
    I thought you believed important stuff should be said in Parliament not in the media?
    They each have their role, but a written position tends to be better crafted.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 22,620
    Charles said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.

    FWIW Caz have just deployed 25% on a cash reserve my foundation had into equities...
    Brave.
    75% still in cash (we went all cash in December)
    In fiat currencies?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used on the streets of Salisbury with the EU 100% backing UK, EU Russian Ambassador recalled, and individual EU countries to announce more measures next week

    I think your politics are deliberately trying to downplay this outrageous attack on us to deflect from your dear leader, the marxist communist Corbyn with his communist office acting as Russia Today's mouth piece
    I think that you are certainly over egging Jezzas position, which is slightly different in tone, but actually very little different to the governments. Ludicrous Tory hyperbole is counterproductive in damaging Jezza.
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.
    Surely those are not the only options? Yes people get caricatured by their opponents, and political ideological terms like left and right are not as well defined as people act like they are, but does that mean we should accept people are whatever they claim? As imperfect as labels are, and certainly when used by opponents, they have some merit. Plenty of people don't self identify as racists, but their actions speak otherwise.

    For what it is worthy I don't think Corbyn is a communist.
    In such circumstances, I do not call them racist, but do call them out for their actions. I am not keen on labelling people, as such labels are by their nature constricting rather than illuminating. Calling someone a racist does not alter their views, but dissecting their statements might.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    I know people cannot be expected to recall every utterance they have ever made, but on such a live issue you'd think they'd remember if they are about to directly contradict themselves.
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    Corbyn's Russian response probably costing them the seat in Thurrock.

    Presumably more popular in Worksop and Leek!

    In Thurrock there was a bigger gain by Lab than Con, so I think Tories obsession with this is rather over egged.
    Conservative obsession with a military grade nerve agent used
    I think that you
    Corbyn is a Russian loving marxist communist as is most of his office. Do you deny this
    I dont think he is either Communist or Marxist, or particularly A Russophile.
    Well you are entitled to your opinion but are you saying Milne is not
    I don't apply such labels to other people. I allow them to self identify rather than be caricatured by their opponents.

    This is Jezzas response to the Salisbury attack. Not much difference is there?



    I don't think he is that stupid, frankly.
    Considering the media has been asking for a fortnight "is this the start of a new Cold War?" it is perfectly reasonable to say that is not the road that we should travel, and that maintaining dialogue matters while applying sanctions that hurt the Putin oligarchs.
    We judge things purely on what people selling papers are doing now, rather than what the government response has actually been? Does parliament not matter anymore? The media can ask if it is a new cold war all it wants, if the government is not making hasty judgements which are leading to such, the media view is irrelevant. The media are not the ones who will be deciding what to do about this, and so far government has not rushed to judgement.

    It seems clear that he just wants to maintain a distinction between himself and the government, even when his official position is not that far from it at all, and he overdoes it unnecessarily.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021
    Will England ever score another goal? Maguire looking good :)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938


    Tonight England health advised anyone in the pub or restaurant on the sunday and monday should hand back clothing to the local authority and receive compensation as any residual nerve agent could impregnate the skin

    And you try to play this down in the hope that it will all go away - it will not and it will go on for months

    I've criticised the Government's response to the Russian attack as being more bravado and bluster than substance and this is the best you've got...

    The truth is May has played this for domestic political advantage and consumption. There is a lot more she and the EU (it has to be said) could have done in the immediate aftermath when (presumably) it was clear it was a Russian State-sponsored action.

    The targeting of personal financial sanctions against the oligarch friends of Putin in the UK and especially London would have sent a far more powerful message than the expulsion of 23 diplomats.

    It may yet happen but the more astute oligarchs will have had plenty of time to move financial resources elsewhere so the impact of any no doubt much-trumpeted and much-lauded response will be minimised.

    The brutal truth is we have blustered and talked big but acted small so far.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,153
    edited March 23
    It is very strange how Corbyn makes people who are normally sane and articulate go quite bananas.

    The emotion is so strong that it is clearly not a normal rational evaluation but something quite deep. I suspect it is the fact that he is a clever politician and a strong leader that is leading his party to success that really freaks them out. They desperately thrash around trying to derail him, without success. It must be very frustrating.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    Foxy said:


    In such circumstances, I do not call them racist, but do call them out for their actions. I am not keen on labelling people, as such labels are by their nature constricting rather than illuminating. Calling someone a racist does not alter their views, but dissecting their statements might.

    I don't quite follow - you allow people to self identify, but if someone says they are a communist, and you 'dissect their statement' to illuminate things, you are not allowing them to self identify, you are claiming you know best and in effect telling them their own label is incorrect, even if you don't give them a new one.

    And you'd probably be right, most of us will support a view that feels like it is one 'our side' should back, but might change our minds when we find out the other lot are behind it.

    But if you call out someone's self identified label as wrong by their actions, what difference does that make from giving them a label of your choosing? In the reaction that is - a racist identifying as a non-racist called out by you as wrong will react the same as if they were called a racist.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    Will England ever score another goal? Maguire looking good :)

    Linguard of course
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:


    In such circumstances, I do not call them racist, but do call them out for their actions. I am not keen on labelling people, as such labels are by their nature constricting rather than illuminating. Calling someone a racist does not alter their views, but dissecting their statements might.

    I don't quite follow - you allow people to self identify, but if someone says they are a communist, and you 'dissect their statement' to illuminate things, you are not allowing them to self identify, you are claiming you know best and in effect telling them their own label is incorrect, even if you don't give them a new one.

    And you'd probably be right, most of us will support a view that feels like it is one 'our side' should back, but might change our minds when we find out the other lot are behind it.

    But if you call out someone's self identified label as wrong by their actions, what difference does that make from giving them a label of your choosing? In the reaction that is - a racist identifying as a non-racist called out by you as wrong will react the same as if they were called a racist.
    No, I have no objection to people self applying labels, just on others doing it. What they mean by their label is a differnt matter. I identify as a Christian, but have considerable differences in what I mean by that to some other self identified Christians here. Ultimately we are all in a minority of one.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    stodge said:


    Tonight England health advised anyone in the pub or restaurant on the sunday and monday should hand back clothing to the local authority and receive compensation as any residual nerve agent could impregnate the skin

    And you try to play this down in the hope that it will all go away - it will not and it will go on for months

    I've criticised the Government's response to the Russian attack as being more bravado and bluster than substance and this is the best you've got...

    The truth is May has played this for domestic political advantage and consumption. There is a lot more she and the EU (it has to be said) could have done in the immediate aftermath when (presumably) it was clear it was a Russian State-sponsored action.

    The targeting of personal financial sanctions against the oligarch friends of Putin in the UK and especially London would have sent a far more powerful message than the expulsion of 23 diplomats.

    It may yet happen but the more astute oligarchs will have had plenty of time to move financial resources elsewhere so the impact of any no doubt much-trumpeted and much-lauded response will be minimised.

    The brutal truth is we have blustered and talked big but acted small so far.
    Public opinion is on May's side and once the OPCW report is made public much stronger action will follow both here and in the EU. Furthermore it will go to the UN
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021

    Foxy said:

    Will England ever score another goal? Maguire looking good :)

    Linguard of course
    Another former Leicester player, but Maguire started the move :)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938


    “Trump has tried”? Are you serious?

    I was interested to see that Dominic Cummings published a document today which mentions the phenomenon of Kippery Lib Dems. It could have been written about you.

    Well, the one way worse than being written about is not being written about. If you provide me with a link I'll have a look.

    Shouldn't really read your own publicity.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Barnesian said:

    It is very strange how Corbyn makes people who are normally sane and articulate go quite bananas.

    The emotion is so strong that it is clearly not a normal rational evaluation but something quite deep. I suspect it is the fact that he is a clever politician and a strong leader that is leading his party to success that really freaks them out. They desperately thrash around trying to derail him, without success. It must be very frustrating.

    I am not the least frustrated by Corbyn. Without him in place the government would be in a lot more trouble. Long may he continue in office
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 19,836
    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    In truth, something for everyone in the week's local by-election results and little to be gleaned at a national level.

    I've never been at a count where the result has been tied - is there a single method to decide used everywhere ? I've heard the drawing of lots or the toss of a coin being used but I suppose it's up to the discretion of the returning officer.

    It's a horrible way to lose.

    The DJIA has lost in excess of 2,000 points since February 26th when it was 25,709. I make that close to correction territory (10%). The FTSE has lost 870 points since its high in January of 7792.6 so more than 10% given up and the index is where it was in August 2016 so all the "Trump Bump" erased.

    Sterling still a few cents below the pre 23/6/16 level but against the Euro still 14 cents below the pre-Referendum numbers.

    FWIW Caz have just deployed 25% on a cash reserve my foundation had into equities...
    Brave.
    75% still in cash (we went all cash in December)
    In fiat currencies?
    I don’t do bitcoin!
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,191
    Foxy said:

    Will England ever score another goal? Maguire looking good :)

    He made one mistake in the first half that nearly led to a dutch goal.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,021

    stodge said:


    Tonight England health advised anyone in the pub or restaurant on the sunday and monday should hand back clothing to the local authority and receive compensation as any residual nerve agent could impregnate the skin

    And you try to play this down in the hope that it will all go away - it will not and it will go on for months

    I've criticised the Government's response to the Russian attack as being more bravado and bluster than substance and this is the best you've got...

    The truth is May has played this for domestic political advantage and consumption. There is a lot more she and the EU (it has to be said) could have done in the immediate aftermath when (presumably) it was clear it was a Russian State-sponsored action.

    The targeting of personal financial sanctions against the oligarch friends of Putin in the UK and especially London would have sent a far more powerful message than the expulsion of 23 diplomats.

    It may yet happen but the more astute oligarchs will have had plenty of time to move financial resources elsewhere so the impact of any no doubt much-trumpeted and much-lauded response will be minimised.

    The brutal truth is we have blustered and talked big but acted small so far.
    Public opinion is on May's side and once the OPCW report is made public much stronger action will follow both here and in the EU. Furthermore it will go to the UN
    So you are saying the same as Jezza? stronger action should follow, if external independent investigation confirms?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,153
    edited March 23

    Barnesian said:

    It is very strange how Corbyn makes people who are normally sane and articulate go quite bananas.

    The emotion is so strong that it is clearly not a normal rational evaluation but something quite deep. I suspect it is the fact that he is a clever politician and a strong leader that is leading his party to success that really freaks them out. They desperately thrash around trying to derail him, without success. It must be very frustrating.

    I am not the least frustrated by Corbyn. Without him in place the government would be in a lot more trouble. Long may he continue in office
    So why are you attacking him?

    EDIT: If Rees-Mogg became Tory leader, I wouldn't attack him. I wouldn't need to. I'd just quietly smile.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 3,938


    Public opinion is on May's side and once the OPCW report is made public much stronger action will follow both here and in the EU. Furthermore it will go to the UN

    Public opinion is a fickle animal as most Conservatives should know.

    I don't doubt the OPCW will nail the blame at Moscow's door and perhaps it will finally provide a credible sequence of events and timeline or will anything critical be swept under a national security carpet ? Let's see.

    I'm also sceptical that other countries will entertain much more than verbal condemnation of Putin - we'll see but the time to mane a meaningful economic impact on Putin's wealthy allies has, I think, come and gone.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Will England ever score another goal? Maguire looking good :)

    Linguard of course
    Another former Leicester player, but Maguire started the move :)
    Maguire is on United's radar I believe
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Foxy said:

    stodge said:


    Tonight England health advised anyone in the pub or restaurant on the sunday and monday should hand back clothing to the local authority and receive compensation as any residual nerve agent could impregnate the skin

    And you try to play this down in the hope that it will all go away - it will not and it will go on for months

    I've criticised the Government's response to the Russian attack as being more bravado and bluster than substance and this is the best you've got...

    The truth is May has played this for domestic political advantage and consumption. There is a lot more she and the EU (it has to be said) could have done in the immediate aftermath when (presumably) it was clear it was a Russian State-sponsored action.

    The targeting of personal financial sanctions against the oligarch friends of Putin in the UK and especially London would have sent a far more powerful message than the expulsion of 23 diplomats.

    It may yet happen but the more astute oligarchs will have had plenty of time to move financial resources elsewhere so the impact of any no doubt much-trumpeted and much-lauded response will be minimised.

    The brutal truth is we have blustered and talked big but acted small so far.
    Public opinion is on May's side and once the OPCW report is made public much stronger action will follow both here and in the EU. Furthermore it will go to the UN
    So you are saying the same as Jezza? stronger action should follow, if external independent investigation confirms?
    His response in the HOC was so misjudged and inappropriate that anything else is just trying to mitigate his inepitude
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765
    edited March 23
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:


    In such circumstances, I do not call them racist, but do call them out for their actions. I am not keen on labelling people, as such labels are by their nature constricting rather than illuminating. Calling someone a racist does not alter their views, but dissecting their statements might.

    I don't quite follow - you allow people to self identify, but if someone says they are a communist, and you 'dissect their statement' to illuminate things, you are not allowing them to self identify, you are claiming you know best and in effect telling them their own label is incorrect, even if you don't give them a new one.

    And you'd probably be right, most of us will support a view that feels like it is one 'our side' should back, but might change our minds when we find out the other lot are behind it.

    But if you call out someone's self identified label as wrong by their actions, what difference does that make from giving them a label of your choosing? In the reaction that is - a racist identifying as a non-racist called out by you as wrong will react the same as if they were called a racist.
    No, I have no objection to people self applying labels, just on others doing it. What they mean by their label is a differnt matter. I identify as a Christian, but have considerable differences in what I mean by that to some other self identified Christians here. Ultimately we are all in a minority of one.
    I feel like I'm going in circles here, but I am very confused: what point is there in 'accepting' a self applying label if by your actions you show someone you don't really accept it as you call them out for their actions? 'I'm not a racist', 'well, you've acted in a manner which shows some racism and I must call you out on that' 'how dare you call me a racist' 'I didn't, you may call yourself a non-racist as much as you like, you do you'.

    Feels like it would be simpler to accept the use of labels, while just not going overboard with entirely defining people by them, since its bloody inconvenient otherwise. Have you ever called someone a Brexiter, a label which to some has negative connotations and others positive ones, without knowing if they self identify as such?(as a helpful post the other day showed, there's a whole range of potential terms which, some serious some not, have different meanings, like neo-brexiter, brexitloon etc) It's not like calling some a Tory or LD, since at least people clearly belong to a party and therefore consent to such a label.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    It is very strange how Corbyn makes people who are normally sane and articulate go quite bananas.

    The emotion is so strong that it is clearly not a normal rational evaluation but something quite deep. I suspect it is the fact that he is a clever politician and a strong leader that is leading his party to success that really freaks them out. They desperately thrash around trying to derail him, without success. It must be very frustrating.

    I am not the least frustrated by Corbyn. Without him in place the government would be in a lot more trouble. Long may he continue in office
    So why are you attacking him?

    EDIT: If Rees-Mogg became Tory leader, I wouldn't attack him. I wouldn't need to. I'd just quietly smile.
    Because I fundamentally disagree with his politics
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,191
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    It is very strange how Corbyn makes people who are normally sane and articulate go quite bananas.

    The emotion is so strong that it is clearly not a normal rational evaluation but something quite deep. I suspect it is the fact that he is a clever politician and a strong leader that is leading his party to success that really freaks them out. They desperately thrash around trying to derail him, without success. It must be very frustrating.

    I am not the least frustrated by Corbyn. Without him in place the government would be in a lot more trouble. Long may he continue in office
    So why are you attacking him?

    EDIT: If Rees-Mogg became Tory leader, I wouldn't attack him. I wouldn't need to. I'd just quietly smile.
    No point attacking Vince,he's doing a great job.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 19,977
    stodge said:


    “Trump has tried”? Are you serious?

    I was interested to see that Dominic Cummings published a document today which mentions the phenomenon of Kippery Lib Dems. It could have been written about you.

    Well, the one way worse than being written about is not being written about. If you provide me with a link I'll have a look.

    Shouldn't really read your own publicity.
    It's a pitch that was made to Vote Leave about different target groups for potential Brexit voters.

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/vote-leave-campaign-pilot-memo-final.pdf
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,591
    stodge said:


    Public opinion is on May's side and once the OPCW report is made public much stronger action will follow both here and in the EU. Furthermore it will go to the UN

    Public opinion is a fickle animal as most Conservatives should know.

    I don't doubt the OPCW will nail the blame at Moscow's door and perhaps it will finally provide a credible sequence of events and timeline or will anything critical be swept under a national security carpet ? Let's see.

    I'm also sceptical that other countries will entertain much more than verbal condemnation of Putin - we'll see but the time to mane a meaningful economic impact on Putin's wealthy allies has, I think, come and gone.
    I do not think a couple of weeks will have had an impact on Putin's wealthy allies. You cannot sell property in two weeks and in any respect, anything that happens has to be lawful and may need legislation.

    EU countries have indicated they will take action from next week.

    This is a developing story
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    Barnesian said:

    It is very strange how Corbyn makes people who are normally sane and articulate go quite bananas.

    The emotion is so strong that it is clearly not a normal rational evaluation but something quite deep. I suspect it is the fact that he is a clever politician and a strong leader that is leading his party to success that really freaks them out. They desperately thrash around trying to derail him, without success. It must be very frustrating.

    Really? Who is doing this (with link)? My take on him is that he is a profoundly stupid man of a type very common on the Left, all the way from Scargill and Skinner down to the sort of students who like to go "on protests" generically (i.e. without reference to what the protest is a protest against), of interest only because of the mismatch between his abilities and his job. Not sure what you refer to when you say "leading his party to success."
  • glwglw Posts: 4,316
    Foxy said:

    Considering the media has been asking for a fortnight "is this the start of a new Cold War?" it is perfectly reasonable to say that is not the road that we should travel, and that maintaining dialogue matters while applying sanctions that hurt the Putin oligarchs.

    In recent years Russia has invaded two neighbouring countries (annexing part of one). They are propping up Assad. They supplied the missile and maybe the troops that shot down an airliner. Russia routinely assassinates opponents at home and abroad. Russia seems to be in violation of the CWC. Russia directly interfered in the US Presidential election. Russia has also announced that they intend to develop the maddest range of nuclear weapons yet seen.

    So if you ask "is this the start of a new Cold War?" The answer is almost certainly yes, because whatever we might want Russia seems to have already started it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 31,765

    stodge said:


    “Trump has tried”? Are you serious?

    I was interested to see that Dominic Cummings published a document today which mentions the phenomenon of Kippery Lib Dems. It could have been written about you.

    Well, the one way worse than being written about is not being written about. If you provide me with a link I'll have a look.

    Shouldn't really read your own publicity.
    It's a pitch that was made to Vote Leave about different target groups for potential Brexit voters.

    https://dominiccummings.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/vote-leave-campaign-pilot-memo-final.pdf
    One bit in bold caught my eye

    This is because we can trigger the underlying dispositional motivators that drive each psychographic audience

    It feels like the words of an alien experimenting on human subjects.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,556
    stodge said:


    Public opinion is on May's side and once the OPCW report is made public much stronger action will follow both here and in the EU. Furthermore it will go to the UN

    Public opinion is a fickle animal as most Conservatives should know.

    I don't doubt the OPCW will nail the blame at Moscow's door and perhaps it will finally provide a credible sequence of events and timeline or will anything critical be swept under a national security carpet ? Let's see.

    I'm also sceptical that other countries will entertain much more than verbal condemnation of Putin - we'll see but the time to mane a meaningful economic impact on Putin's wealthy allies has, I think, come and gone.
    You can do a lot to wealthy allies with visa restrictions; it is much less fun stealing billions from one shithole and offshore banking them in another, if you can't go and spend them in person in London and Paris.
This discussion has been closed.