I didn’t see any anti-Semitic comments on PB last night. If I had I would have called them out, believe me. Not everyone on the left is like Jeremy Corbyn!!
Cyclefree said she was sickened by posters on here waving ant semitism away.It sickens me she makes the accusation without in my knowledge any thing to back it up.Also people sit on their hands and never caller her out.
Can't speak for Cyclefree but while I feel she exagerrates about national figures she doesn't usually go personal about other posters - I don't think she quite intended to suggest Foxy or BJo were anti-semitic. If she did, of course it's bollocks, but I think it was probably more carelessly unspecific wording.
Marque Mark wries: "What appears to be worse is that the LibDems don't seem to have been using the time to come up with any sort of alternative offering to the voters"
- that seems in some ways more true of the Tories. The LibDems may be doing stuff that isn't reported, who knows, but apart from the environment and the occasional nod to housing, I've not noticed Ministers doing anything in particular except Brexit and Moscow retaliation. That seems quite a serious snag - in 2022, people are really going to want something new. They all know what Labour wants in general terms - fund the NHS and schools better, nationalise some stuff, squeeze the rich. They may or may not feel that's appealing, but anyway it's a change of direction. The Tory mantra seems to be "Vote for us 'cos we're delivering Brexit and we're not that evil Corbyn." In 2022, people will shrug off both halves of that.
I didn’t see any anti-Semitic comments on PB last night. If I had I would have called them out, believe me. Not everyone on the left is like Jeremy Corbyn!!
Cyclefree said she was sickened by posters on here waving ant semitism away.It sickens me she makes the accusation without in my knowledge any thing to back it up.Also people sit on their hands and never caller her out.
Can't speak for Cyclefree but while I feel she exagerrates about national figures she doesn't usually go personal about other posters - I don't think she quite intended to suggest Foxy or BJo were anti-semitic. If she did, of course it's bollocks, but I think it was probably more carelessly unspecific wording.
Marque Mark wries: "What appears to be worse is that the LibDems don't seem to have been using the time to come up with any sort of alternative offering to the voters"
- that seems in some ways more true of the Tories. The LibDems may be doing stuff that isn't reported, who knows, but apart from the environment and the occasional nod to housing, I've not noticed Ministers doing anything in particular except Brexit and Moscow retaliation. That seems quite a serious snag - in 2022, people are really going to want something new. They all know what Labour wants in general terms - fund the NHS and schools better, nationalise some stuff, squeeze the rich. They may or may not feel that's appealing, but anyway it's a change of direction. The Tory mantra seems to be "Vote for us 'cos we're delivering Brexit and we're not that evil Corbyn." In 2022, people will shrug off both halves of that.
In other words "tick tock" eh Nick. Whilst you are about, what's your view on the Owen Smith sacking?
Happy to be corrected but that isn't how it read to me.
BJO didn't think Corbyn had indicated anything by his post and JWisemann (though not 100% on this) argued that he couldn't tell the picture was anti-semitic.
That is very different from saying anti-semitism is okay.
Mr. Simon, indeed. If the unions see their influence lost to the likes of Momentum, I wonder if they'd support such a move.
However, Labour types still seem strangely affectionate towards what amounts to a brand. And they also seem keener to remember the distant memory, in relative terms, of the SDP rather than more recent examples like UKIP* and En Marche.
*Yes, UKIP were rubbish in the traditional sense of winning elections, but they did achieve their ultimate political goal and show a new party can break through. And a new party could have dozens of MPs already.
It should be remembered that the PS were already down to about 10% (plus or minus a bit, depending on who the candidate was) when Macron launched his bid. It's a different business launching a new centrist party split off from the centre-left when Labour's polling top-side of 40%.
But, why is Labour at 40% when socialist parties have been decimated in France, Germany and elsewhere all over Europe?
I know people say “FPTP” but I never find that a satisfactory answer.
But it is largely true. The *overall* left-of-centre vote in France and Germany wasn't too shabby but a lot has drifted from social Democrats to the more radical left. Indeed, far from being an exception, arguably, the capture of Labour by Corbyn and his Allies is completely in line with that trend.
Labour also benefits - for now - from the unusual weakness of the Lib Dems and new parties.
Hmm. Still not convinced.
Corbyn is a very left-wing politician and hugely polarising. He shouldn’t be on anything like 40% really, even under FPTP.
I think that's why Labour are doing to well. Look across Europe, the radical left are winning while the middle of the road left are getting badly beaten.
People on the left want something different just as people on the right wanted something different for so many years leading up to the referendum vote.
For all his faults, Corbyn is different.
Thereis a sizeable minorty of people who will be prepared to back anyone - literally anyone - who is best placed to lead a Tory; who will automatically beleive the opposite is something is said by a Tory. We think Labour are testing this theory to destruction with Jeremy Corbyn - but based on the comments appearing on my facebook timeline, I suspect if Vladimir Putin or Alex Salmond or Martin McGuinness were best placed to beat the Conmservative Party there would be many who would vote for them.
So Dominic Cummings is calling for another referendum on Europe. Bring it on!
On the ECHR....not on the EU....that one's won....
He says, "bear in mind most people probably think we’re already leaving it because of the 2016 referendum, so imagine how mad they’ll be when they realise we’re still in it."
I'm not sure admitting that people didn't know what they were voting for is a helpful message for him...
Poor guy. At least when I ‘came out*’ to my Pakistani heritage parents it was at time and manner of my own choosing.
Mr Sanni is understood to be preparing to accuse Vote Leave of breaking electoral law. His lawyers said last night that Mr Parkinson’s statement to the media had disclosed their client’s sexuality and had forced Mr Sanni “to come out to his mother and family tonight, and members of his family in Pakistan are being forced to take urgent protective measures to ensure their safety”.
Marque Mark wries: "What appears to be worse is that the LibDems don't seem to have been using the time to come up with any sort of alternative offering to the voters"
- that seems in some ways more true of the Tories. The LibDems may be doing stuff that isn't reported, who knows, but apart from the environment and the occasional nod to housing, I've not noticed Ministers doing anything in particular except Brexit and Moscow retaliation. That seems quite a serious snag - in 2022, people are really going to want something new. They all know what Labour wants in general terms - fund the NHS and schools better, nationalise some stuff, squeeze the rich. They may or may not feel that's appealing, but anyway it's a change of direction. The Tory mantra seems to be "Vote for us 'cos we're delivering Brexit and we're not that evil Corbyn." In 2022, people will shrug off both halves of that.
To be fair, the Government has rather more in its diary than the LibDems!
Come the next eelction, the Tories are going to have to defend the Brexit they deliver. This is the biggest shift in our position with the world since we dismantled Empire. Of course it is all-consuming for Govt. Now, many here seem to have moved from "Brexit can't be delivered" to "Brexit will be a shit-storm when it is delivered". For some of them, that will be their position regardless of any objective outcome. But as far as the voters are concerned, they gave an instruction to leave the EU - and then in the 2017 election, reaffirmed that by casting 86% of the votes for parties that said that is what they would do. A "Goldilocks" Brexit should do the job for many.
Certainly the Tories need to come out of Brexit having some ideas for how that new status can be best exploited. But it is not the immediate priority, if the election isn't to be until 2021/22.
(As an aside, I'm not sure Labour people referring to "Tory Brexit" is entirely wise. For one thing, Brexit was only on offer from the Tories - Labour refused to give people a say. And if Brexit turns out not half bad....)
In another 14 years I predict most posters will be AI bots proving interesting facts, provocative arguments, trolling, and all the other stuff we do - with a few humans still left on the site getting psycho-therapeutic relief.
Lol. Many years ago when I was at MIT I was told that students in one working group used to skip lectures and just leave a tape recorder so they could catch up later. One day someone looked in and found the room entirely deserted, because the lecturer had left a tape recorder to deliver his talk as well. Probably apocryphal, but a nice image...
I suspect there may be one or two AI bots already among us.
Poor guy. At least when I ‘came out*’ to my Pakistani heritage parents it was at time and manner of my own choosing.
Mr Sanni is understood to be preparing to accuse Vote Leave of breaking electoral law. His lawyers said last night that Mr Parkinson’s statement to the media had disclosed their client’s sexuality and had forced Mr Sanni “to come out to his mother and family tonight, and members of his family in Pakistan are being forced to take urgent protective measures to ensure their safety”.
In another 14 years I predict most posters will be AI bots proving interesting facts, provocative arguments, trolling, and all the other stuff we do - with a few humans still left on the site getting psycho-therapeutic relief.
Lol. Many years ago when I was at MIT I was told that students in one working group used to skip lectures and just leave a tape recorder so they could catch up later. One day someone looked in and found the room entirely deserted, because the lecturer had left a tape recorder to deliver his talk as well. Probably apocryphal, but a nice image...
I suspect there may be one or two AI bots already among us.
In another 14 years I predict most posters will be AI bots proving interesting facts, provocative arguments, trolling, and all the other stuff we do - with a few humans still left on the site getting psycho-therapeutic relief.
Lol. Many years ago when I was at MIT I was told that students in one working group used to skip lectures and just leave a tape recorder so they could catch up later. One day someone looked in and found the room entirely deserted, because the lecturer had left a tape recorder to deliver his talk as well. Probably apocryphal, but a nice image...
I suspect there may be one or two AI bots already among us.
Poor guy. At least when I ‘came out*’ to my Pakistani heritage parents it was at time and manner of my own choosing.
Mr Sanni is understood to be preparing to accuse Vote Leave of breaking electoral law. His lawyers said last night that Mr Parkinson’s statement to the media had disclosed their client’s sexuality and had forced Mr Sanni “to come out to his mother and family tonight, and members of his family in Pakistan are being forced to take urgent protective measures to ensure their safety”.
Poor guy. At least when I ‘came out*’ to my Pakistani heritage parents it was at time and manner of my own choosing.
Mr Sanni is understood to be preparing to accuse Vote Leave of breaking electoral law. His lawyers said last night that Mr Parkinson’s statement to the media had disclosed their client’s sexuality and had forced Mr Sanni “to come out to his mother and family tonight, and members of his family in Pakistan are being forced to take urgent protective measures to ensure their safety”.
*Well when I told I wasn’t going to have an arranged marriage and was planning on marrying an infidel.
"...Especially when he was at the Pride party with the PM..." Has Mrs May come out, too ?? Or is that logic just a bit faulty ?
What a lot of people fail to appreciate is that someone might be "out" in one circle of friends - absolutely common knowledge that they're living with a partner, even - while being far less open with some other circles of people, and possibly entirely in the closet with their employer, religious fraternity or their own family. That can be a tricky act to juggle (unfortunately for David Laws, or example) but is made worse when people make the mistake of assuming someone they feel they know very well within one sphere who is "publicly out" is therefore "universally out".
This applies more widely than LGBT* issues of course - anything concerning relationships, mental or physical health, religious/political beliefs or the lack of them, often involve "circles of knowledge" whereby people hope to maintain privacy in one corner of their life even if they are open in another. One of the reasons I don't like gossip is that I don't want to be the person who accidentally blabs.
I didn’t see any anti-Semitic comments on PB last night. If I had I would have called them out, believe me. Not everyone on the left is like Jeremy Corbyn!!
Cyclefree said she was sickened by posters on here waving ant semitism away.It sickens me she makes the accusation without in my knowledge any thing to back it up.Also people sit on their hands and never caller her out.
Can't speak for Cyclefree but while I feel she exagerrates about national figures she doesn't usually go personal about other posters - I don't think she quite intended to suggest Foxy or BJo were anti-semitic. If she did, of course it's bollocks, but I think it was probably more carelessly unspecific wording.
Marque Mark wries: "What appears to be worse is that the LibDems don't seem to have been using the time to come up with any sort of alternative offering to the voters"
- that seems in some ways more true of the Tories. The LibDems may be doing stuff that isn't reported, who knows, but apart from the environment and the occasional nod to housing, I've not noticed Ministers doing anything in particular except Brexit and Moscow retaliation. That seems quite a serious snag - in 2022, people are really going to want something new. They all know what Labour wants in general terms - fund the NHS and schools better, nationalise some stuff, squeeze the rich. They may or may not feel that's appealing, but anyway it's a change of direction. The Tory mantra seems to be "Vote for us 'cos we're delivering Brexit and we're not that evil Corbyn." In 2022, people will shrug off both halves of that.
Over 40% are still not shrugging off that.
Also had a productive morning campaigning with IDS in Chingford for the Waltham Forest local elections in May, Momentum were also out so good to get a strong Tory canvass to match them
In another 14 years I predict most posters will be AI bots proving interesting facts, provocative arguments, trolling, and all the other stuff we do - with a few humans still left on the site getting psycho-therapeutic relief.
Lol. Many years ago when I was at MIT I was told that students in one working group used to skip lectures and just leave a tape recorder so they could catch up later. One day someone looked in and found the room entirely deserted, because the lecturer had left a tape recorder to deliver his talk as well. Probably apocryphal, but a nice image...
I suspect there may be one or two AI bots already among us.
For the sake of the programmers, what gave me away? It was the inhuman syntax, wasn't it, or the time I had a 130 word sentence which contained 3 separate parenthetical insertions?
In another 14 years I predict most posters will be AI bots proving interesting facts, provocative arguments, trolling, and all the other stuff we do - with a few humans still left on the site getting psycho-therapeutic relief.
Lol. Many years ago when I was at MIT I was told that students in one working group used to skip lectures and just leave a tape recorder so they could catch up later. One day someone looked in and found the room entirely deserted, because the lecturer had left a tape recorder to deliver his talk as well. Probably apocryphal, but a nice image...
I suspect there may be one or two AI bots already among us.
I followed up with "What do you think of pizza with pineapple?".
A little way to go yet.
She told me that she ’like(d) the ones under the sea’ when I asked about pineapple and pizza.
Oh well!!!
Did she give you a sly smile? She's supposed to have emotional intelligence.
Sort of. And slightly cocked her head to one side when I asked “What about Donad Trump’ and she replied 'I have never seen it.’ Which might or might not say something about Evies proclivities.
Also had a productive morning campaigning with IDS in Chingford for the Waltham Forest local elections in May, Momentum were also out so good to get a strong Tory canvass to match them
Did you get any insights into how he feels about the way Brexit is going?
Also had a productive morning campaigning with IDS in Chingford for the Waltham Forest local elections in May, Momentum were also out so good to get a strong Tory canvass to match them
Did you get any insights into how he feels about the way Brexit is going?
No, was focused on the local polls, did not discuss Brexit at all nor was it really raised on the doorstep. Though surprisingly did still find 1 or 2 Kippers
Cummings blog is brilliant, but this part of it is nonsense. The ECHR are a court, they interpret human rights laws, they don't create them. If Cummings want to have a referendum on getting rid of human rights laws, then I doubt that there would be the support he assumes there is. I doubt people would really be interested in it.
If Cummings want to have a referendum on getting rid of human rights laws, then I doubt that there would be the support he assumes there is. I doubt people would really be interested in it.
He's just desperate to strike fear into his opponents' hearts and thinks talking about a referendum on the ECHR will make people afraid to cross him. It's all a bit pathetic really.
If Cummings want to have a referendum on getting rid of human rights laws, then I doubt that there would be the support he assumes there is. I doubt people would really be interested in it.
He's just desperate to strike fear into his opponents' hearts and thinks talking about a referendum on the ECHR will make people afraid to cross him. It's all a bit pathetic really.
Reading a number of the Cambridge Analytica reports ignoring the Guardian nonsense, it appears they were basically a bunch of snake oil salesmen who took Ted Cruz for one as a fool.
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
Reading a number of the Cambridge Analytica reports ignoring the Guardian nonsense, it appears they were basically a bunch of snake oil salesmen who took Ted Cruz for one as a fool.
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
But there again, the story is in the Guardian.
You can be sure there will be a huge splash in The Observer.
The BBC will run with it 24/7 for days, Marr will have newspaper reviewers covering little else, etc etc etc....
Remainers drinking the EU Kool Aid again - you can’t have human rights without the ECHR ? What piffle.
The question is not whether one can have human rights outwith the ECHR, the question is what is the motive in wanting to withdraw from it. My guess would be to go after the Muslims or whatever is the most outgroup these days. No doubt somebody will think of a more... genteel way of putting it, then slap it on the side of a bus. It'll be something like "THEY are out there! THEY want to hurt you! Vote LEAVE and stop THEM!".
Reading a number of the Cambridge Analytica reports ignoring the Guardian nonsense, it appears they were basically a bunch of snake oil salesmen who took Ted Cruz for one as a fool.
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
But there again, the story is in the Guardian.
Suspect you may be right about the snake oil. I think they ‘somewhat'oversold their capabilites. However, i also suspect there’s some fire behind all that smoke. To mix metaphors.
Mr. Simon, indeed. If the unions see their influence lost to the likes of Momentum, I wonder if they'd support such a move.
However, Labour types still seem strangely affectionate towards what amounts to a brand. And they also seem keener to remember the distant memory, in relative terms, of the SDP rather than more recent examples like UKIP* and En Marche.
*Yes, UKIP were rubbish in the traditional sense of winning elections, but they did achieve their ultimate political goal and show a new party can break through. And a new party could have dozens of MPs already.
It should be remembered that the PS were already down to about 10% (plus or minus a bit, depending on who the candidate was) when Macron launched his bid. It's a different business launching a new centrist party split off from the centre-left when Labour's polling top-side of 40%.
But, why is Labour at 40% when socialist parties have been decimated in France, Germany and elsewhere all over Europe?
I know people say “FPTP” but I never find that a satisfactory answer.
Corbyn Labour offered hope to people otherwise disengaged with politics with different thinking on student debt and housing and the whole 'fairness' agenda.
I don't think there's any chance that a Labour party led by Yvette Cooper or Angela Eagle of Owen Smith would be at 40%.
King Cole, no problem, I'll just print some more. Everyone will be a millionaire, and I'll give everyone an above average pay rise. Hooray!
[I wish to stress that I'm being facetious and that the Morris Dancer Party remains committed to sensible policies, such as a trebuchet-based judicial system].
Reading a number of the Cambridge Analytica reports ignoring the Guardian nonsense, it appears they were basically a bunch of snake oil salesmen who took Ted Cruz for one as a fool.
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
But there again, the story is in the Guardian.
Suspect you may be right about the snake oil. I think they ‘somewhat'oversold their capabilites. However, i also suspect there’s some fire behind all that smoke. To mix metaphors.
2 games in play here.
There is now awareness of what all those app permission's mean now.
Facebook not very smart when selling data although almost certainly not breaking any laws.
Ultimately the value exchange will change. Consumers will get paid for their data in return for allowing themselves to be targeted.
Some aspects of this are already around. Have a look at turking for a start.
Remainers drinking the EU Kool Aid again - you can’t have human rights without the ECHR ? What piffle.
The question is not whether one can have human rights outwith the ECHR, the question is what is the motive in wanting to withdraw from it.
Well can I suggest like Brexit it isn’t about something better , worse or different for a laugh - it’s about being able to vote in and out those who make the laws.
Remainers drinking the EU Kool Aid again - you can’t have human rights without the ECHR ? What piffle.
The question is not whether one can have human rights outwith the ECHR, the question is what is the motive in wanting to withdraw from it.
Well can I suggest like Brexit it isn’t about something better , worse or different for a laugh - it’s about being able to vote in and out those who make the laws.
Reading a number of the Cambridge Analytica reports ignoring the Guardian nonsense, it appears they were basically a bunch of snake oil salesmen who took Ted Cruz for one as a fool.
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
But there again, the story is in the Guardian.
You can be sure there will be a huge splash in The Observer.
The BBC will run with it 24/7 for days, Marr will have newspaper reviewers covering little else, etc etc etc....
Net effect on Brexit? Nil....
I think probably so too. Trump's campaign and both sides of Brexit were pretty pisspoor campaigns from the organisational perspective. The idea that there was some svengali pupeteer behind it all is not tenable. What we are seeing is post hoc analysis, particularly by the losing sides.
That is not to say that the Cambridge Analytica case is not an important one. The use and abuse of Big Data by companies that want to get in side our heads, to get inside our wallets is an important issue that needs some explicit ground rules.
The interference in elections in much more fragile democracies in developing countriesis not to be ignored either. The potential of CA inspired hate campaigns here is societal division, there it is civil violence or even genocide.
Remainers drinking the EU Kool Aid again - you can’t have human rights without the ECHR ? What piffle.
The question is not whether one can have human rights outwith the ECHR, the question is what is the motive in wanting to withdraw from it. My guess would be to go after the Muslims or whatever is the most outgroup these days. No doubt somebody will think of a more... genteel way of putting it, then slap it on the side of a bus. It'll be something like "THEY are out there! THEY want to hurt you! Vote LEAVE and stop THEM!".
King Cole, no problem, I'll just print some more. Everyone will be a millionaire, and I'll give everyone an above average pay rise. Hooray!
[I wish to stress that I'm being facetious and that the Morris Dancer Party remains committed to sensible policies, such as a trebuchet-based judicial system].
Speaking of trebuchets, is your new book available yet?
Reading a number of the Cambridge Analytica reports ignoring the Guardian nonsense, it appears they were basically a bunch of snake oil salesmen who took Ted Cruz for one as a fool.
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
But there again, the story is in the Guardian.
You can be sure there will be a huge splash in The Observer.
The BBC will run with it 24/7 for days, Marr will have newspaper reviewers covering little else, etc etc etc....
Net effect on Brexit? Nil....
I think probably so too. Trump's campaign and both sides of Brexit were pretty pisspoor campaigns from the organisational perspective. The idea that there was some svengali pupeteer behind it all is not tenable. What we are seeing is post hoc analysis, particularly by the losing sides.
That is not to say that the Cambridge Analytica case is not an important one. The use and abuse of Big Data by companies that want to get in side our heads, to get inside our wallets is an important issue that needs some explicit ground rules.
The interference in elections in much more fragile democracies in developing countriesis not to be ignored either. The potential of CA inspired hate campaigns here is societal division, there it is civil violence or even genocide.
Remainers drinking the EU Kool Aid again - you can’t have human rights without the ECHR ? What piffle.
The question is not whether one can have human rights outwith the ECHR, the question is what is the motive in wanting to withdraw from it.
Well can I suggest like Brexit it isn’t about something better , worse or different for a laugh - it’s about being able to vote in and out those who make the laws.
I'd argue it's qualitatively different. I don't believe the legislature of a country - any country - should have carte blanche to do what it likes to its citizens. There have been enough examples throughout history to demonstrate how horribly wrong that can go, and arguing that the UK is sufficiently different to make safeguards unnecessary is not credible given UK history. People do matter, there are limits, and blithely going "well it's just to vote who makes the laws" is playing with fire.
There's an annoying habit of adding quotes from plays or films to bolster an argument, which I try to avoid . Nevertheless I am having great difficulty restraining myself from inserting the quote from "A Man For All Seasons" here...
Reading a number of the Cambridge Analytica reports ignoring the Guardian nonsense, it appears they were basically a bunch of snake oil salesmen who took Ted Cruz for one as a fool.
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
But there again, the story is in the Guardian.
Suspect you may be right about the snake oil. I think they ‘somewhat'oversold their capabilites. However, i also suspect there’s some fire behind all that smoke. To mix metaphors.
2 games in play here.
There is now awareness of what all those app permission's mean now.
Facebook not very smart when selling data although almost certainly not breaking any laws.
Ultimately the value exchange will change. Consumers will get paid for their data in return for allowing themselves to be targeted.
Some aspects of this are already around. Have a look at turking for a start.
Agree about Facebook. It's typical of new developments isn't it. Someone invents something, then someone else realises there are opportunities which the inventor never dreamed of. Interesting you suggest getting paid for data, because when I get phone calls from people purporting to be conducting surveys I always ask how much I will be paid. They always ring off.
Mr. Richard, aye. He offered that hope through the medium of being innumerate.
I could offer to give everyone a million pounds if I became PM. I'd just order the Bank of England to print the money. What could possibly go wrong?
But that is the nature of Populism. Railing against the powers that be on behalf of ordinary people, and promising the moon on a stick. It has worked for right wing Populists like the Leavers, and there is every reason for Left wing Populism to be as powerful a trend. Indeed we have seen it already, with Sanders in the USA, with Melenchon, the Greens and Die Linke in Germany, 5 star in Italy, Syriza in Greece and Corbynism too.
There has been a lot of analysis over recent years of the drivers of Right wing Nationalist Poulism, much less so of its Left wing twin. It is the nature of Populism to disintegrate or to compromise when it achieves power, in a flurry of recrimination. At that point will the voters want sane moderates, or will they reach for the snake oil of the opposite populism? I think the latter more likely.
Dr. Foxy, people have been expressing discontent with the EU and our level of integration with it for decades. Just denouncing it as populism rather disregards the genuine and long-held concerns people had, and may, I fear, be used as an excuse by those who are pro-EU to avoid having to bother with engaging with said concerns or, in some cases, even treating them as valid.
If such concerns had been treated more seriously ahead of time, we would have voted to remain.
Looking at twitter, I fear that there were actually people out there who thought that Corbyn was going to lead some kind of stop Brexit campaign. Anyone who believed that presumably knows absolutely nothing about Jeremy Corbyn. Or indeed, the fact that the polling shows that stopping Brexit is not really a vote winning position, even if it’s something I might like that’s the reality of it. I also get the impression that many Remainers on twitter aren’t aware of the extent their views are that of a minority. The party which has the position of many Remainers on twitter is polling at 6-7% in the polls. Which kind of says a lot.
Dr. Foxy, people have been expressing discontent with the EU and our level of integration with it for decades. Just denouncing it as populism rather disregards the genuine and long-held concerns people had, and may, I fear, be used as an excuse by those who are pro-EU to avoid having to bother with engaging with said concerns or, in some cases, even treating them as valid.
If such concerns had been treated more seriously ahead of time, we would have voted to remain.
King Cole, and thanks for asking
Brexitism is just one example of right wing Populism. Trumpism, Le Pen, Orban, even Putin all drink from the same cup. Most political movements have movements have their origins in some degree of percieved greivance. Those wanting to counter the Left wing Populists like Corbyn should not be blind to the grievances that cause followers to flock to him
Dr. Foxy, people have been expressing discontent with the EU and our level of integration with it for decades. Just denouncing it as populism rather disregards the genuine and long-held concerns people had, and may, I fear, be used as an excuse by those who are pro-EU to avoid having to bother with engaging with said concerns or, in some cases, even treating them as valid.
If such concerns had been treated more seriously ahead of time, we would have voted to remain.
King Cole, and thanks for asking
Mr D, I'm not sure about the genuiness or source of the discontent. It will be interesting, when the current tumult and shouting dies down, to see .... or read..... what a competent historian makes of public perception of the 40-odd years of Britains EU membership. I hope I shall still be around to read it!
King Cole, I think Labour's decision to just renege on the Lisbon referendum was a serious source of anger and distrust. It treated the manifesto promise with contempt, the electorate as fools, and may have raised the suspicion that unless we voted to leave then we'd never, ever get asked our view again.
I did hesitate far more than I expected in the voting booth. But democracy requires that we can hold to account those who govern us, and the EU cannot ever satisfy that. An associate membership with the economics and without the politics would've been fine. But it was never on the table.
Remainers drinking the EU Kool Aid again - you can’t have human rights without the ECHR ? What piffle.
The question is not whether one can have human rights outwith the ECHR, the question is what is the motive in wanting to withdraw from it.
Well can I suggest like Brexit it isn’t about something better , worse or different for a laugh - it’s about being able to vote in and out those who make the laws.
You can suggest it but it isn’t true.
One day these über Remainers might “get” why they lost. But it’s not here yet.
Looking at twitter, I fear that there were actually people out there who thought that Corbyn was going to lead some kind of stop Brexit campaign. Anyone who believed that presumably knows absolutely nothing about Jeremy Corbyn. Or indeed, the fact that the polling shows that stopping Brexit is not really a vote winning position, even if it’s something I might like that’s the reality of it. I also get the impression that many Remainers on twitter aren’t aware of the extent their views are that of a minority. The party which has the position of many Remainers on twitter is polling at 6-7% in the polls. Which kind of says a lot.
That is true, and because I do not want to have a second referendum or to stop Brexit, I have been drawn to Corbynism over Cableism. On other issues I am less convinced. I would much prefer a Corbynite peoples Brexit to a Tory bosses Brexit.
I shall in any case be voting for whichever party can best unseat the Tories. They deserve punishment for what they've done.
Dr. Foxy, people have been expressing discontent with the EU and our level of integration with it for decades. Just denouncing it as populism rather disregards the genuine and long-held concerns people had, and may, I fear, be used as an excuse by those who are pro-EU to avoid having to bother with engaging with said concerns or, in some cases, even treating them as valid.
If such concerns had been treated more seriously ahead of time, we would have voted to remain.
King Cole, and thanks for asking
Brexitism is just one example of right wing Populism. Trumpism, Le Pen, Orban, even Putin all drink from the same cup. Most political movements have movements have their origins in some degree of percieved greivance. Those wanting to counter the Left wing Populists like Corbyn should not be blind to the grievances that cause followers to flock to him
Yep. I firmly believe that the Iraq war and its aftermath was one of the causes of the resurgence of the radical left. It lead so many to walk away from left of centre, moderate, social democracy. The other big reason is dissatisfaction with the current economic settlement.
Comments
Marque Mark wries:
"What appears to be worse is that the LibDems don't seem to have been using the time to come up with any sort of alternative offering to the voters"
- that seems in some ways more true of the Tories. The LibDems may be doing stuff that isn't reported, who knows, but apart from the environment and the occasional nod to housing, I've not noticed Ministers doing anything in particular except Brexit and Moscow retaliation. That seems quite a serious snag - in 2022, people are really going to want something new. They all know what Labour wants in general terms - fund the NHS and schools better, nationalise some stuff, squeeze the rich. They may or may not feel that's appealing, but anyway it's a change of direction. The Tory mantra seems to be "Vote for us 'cos we're delivering Brexit and we're not that evil Corbyn." In 2022, people will shrug off both halves of that.
BJO didn't think Corbyn had indicated anything by his post and JWisemann (though not 100% on this) argued that he couldn't tell the picture was anti-semitic.
That is very different from saying anti-semitism is okay.
https://order-order.com/2018/03/24/corbyn-personally-supported-multiple-anti-semites/
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/977543272649363456
I'm not sure admitting that people didn't know what they were voting for is a helpful message for him...
Mr Sanni is understood to be preparing to accuse Vote Leave of breaking electoral law. His lawyers said last night that Mr Parkinson’s statement to the media had disclosed their client’s sexuality and had forced Mr Sanni “to come out to his mother and family tonight, and members of his family in Pakistan are being forced to take urgent protective measures to ensure their safety”.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/57442862-2ee9-11e8-908b-95a753c47952
*Well when I told I wasn’t going to have an arranged marriage and was planning on marrying an infidel.
Come the next eelction, the Tories are going to have to defend the Brexit they deliver. This is the biggest shift in our position with the world since we dismantled Empire. Of course it is all-consuming for Govt. Now, many here seem to have moved from "Brexit can't be delivered" to "Brexit will be a shit-storm when it is delivered". For some of them, that will be their position regardless of any objective outcome. But as far as the voters are concerned, they gave an instruction to leave the EU - and then in the 2017 election, reaffirmed that by casting 86% of the votes for parties that said that is what they would do. A "Goldilocks" Brexit should do the job for many.
Certainly the Tories need to come out of Brexit having some ideas for how that new status can be best exploited. But it is not the immediate priority, if the election isn't to be until 2021/22.
(As an aside, I'm not sure Labour people referring to "Tory Brexit" is entirely wise. For one thing, Brexit was only on offer from the Tories - Labour refused to give people a say. And if Brexit turns out not half bad....)
Oh well!!!
....and occasionally has malfunctions, making you look like a supporter of anti-semites and holocaust deniers!
Has Mrs May come out, too ??
Or is that logic just a bit faulty ?
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/24/how-stormy-daniels-lawyer-michael-avenatti-is-outfoxing-trump-217702
60 Minutes this weekend might be entertaining...
I’ll stop going now as I might meet Theresa May face to face.
This applies more widely than LGBT* issues of course - anything concerning relationships, mental or physical health, religious/political beliefs or the lack of them, often involve "circles of knowledge" whereby people hope to maintain privacy in one corner of their life even if they are open in another. One of the reasons I don't like gossip is that I don't want to be the person who accidentally blabs.
Also had a productive morning campaigning with IDS in Chingford for the Waltham Forest local elections in May, Momentum were also out so good to get a strong Tory canvass to match them
Which might or might not say something about Evies proclivities.
The ECHR are a court, they interpret human rights laws, they don't create them.
If Cummings want to have a referendum on getting rid of human rights laws, then I doubt that there would be the support he assumes there is. I doubt people would really be interested in it.
https://twitter.com/OliverNorgrove/status/977568361017171968
Given how much hype and bullshit they sold, you'd have to be a complete idiot yourself to think they had an impact on a single vote.
But there again, the story is in the Guardian.
The BBC will run with it 24/7 for days, Marr will have newspaper reviewers covering little else, etc etc etc....
Net effect on Brexit? Nil....
Vote Leave. Take...ultimate power
To mix metaphors.
Pretty gloomy here, too. N Essex.
What next? BA Crufts?
I could offer to give everyone a million pounds if I became PM. I'd just order the Bank of England to print the money. What could possibly go wrong?
[I wish to stress that I'm being facetious and that the Morris Dancer Party remains committed to sensible policies, such as a trebuchet-based judicial system].
There is now awareness of what all those app permission's mean now.
Facebook not very smart when selling data although almost certainly not breaking any laws.
Ultimately the value exchange will change. Consumers will get paid for their data in return for allowing themselves to be targeted.
Some aspects of this are already around. Have a look at turking for a start.
That is not to say that the Cambridge Analytica case is not an important one. The use and abuse of Big Data by companies that want to get in side our heads, to get inside our wallets is an important issue that needs some explicit ground rules.
The interference in elections in much more fragile democracies in developing countriesis not to be ignored either. The potential of CA inspired hate campaigns here is societal division, there it is civil violence or even genocide.
There's an annoying habit of adding quotes from plays or films to bolster an argument, which I try to avoid . Nevertheless I am having great difficulty restraining myself from inserting the quote from "A Man For All Seasons" here...
What an amazing forum this is. Glad you commented. Thank you
Interesting you suggest getting paid for data, because when I get phone calls from people purporting to be conducting surveys I always ask how much I will be paid. They always ring off.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sir-Edric-Plague-Thaddeus-White-ebook/dp/B07BN2W1L7/
I have not buckled before the politically correct pro-elven lobby groups. Sir Edric retains his rightful contempt for the pointy-eared snollygosters.
There has been a lot of analysis over recent years of the drivers of Right wing Nationalist Poulism, much less so of its Left wing twin. It is the nature of Populism to disintegrate or to compromise when it achieves power, in a flurry of recrimination. At that point will the voters want sane moderates, or will they reach for the snake oil of the opposite populism? I think the latter more likely.
If such concerns had been treated more seriously ahead of time, we would have voted to remain.
King Cole, and thanks for asking
I hope I shall still be around to read it!
I did hesitate far more than I expected in the voting booth. But democracy requires that we can hold to account those who govern us, and the EU cannot ever satisfy that. An associate membership with the economics and without the politics would've been fine. But it was never on the table.
I shall in any case be voting for whichever party can best unseat the Tories. They deserve punishment for what they've done.
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