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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A new furrow. The changing nature of work and what that might

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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    Scott_P said:
    During my morning commute that's the only front page I expect to see.
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    Scott_P said:
    Called it the other day, Stephen Parkinson is toast.

    To think people said 'nothing will change'
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    edited March 2018
    AnneJGP said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    Good to see Corbyn doing his bit to get the Leave campaign's expenditure off the front pages. He'll stop at nothing to make sure Brexit goes ahead.

    twitter.com/hendopolis/status/978004182413299712
    Haven't they already been investigated, twice?
    Third time is always the charm.
    I thought I'd read that for the funds under investigation, the receiving party had checked with the Electoral Commission that it was OK to take it.

    If that really was the case, it really seems as though the rules are being retro-fitted to put them in the wrong.
    It's ok to donate money to an independent campaign organisation. It's not ok to spend money on behalf of another organisation or direct them on how to spend it and call it a donation.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,268
    Anyone believe I am going to wake up tomorrow morning with England still batting? Anyone at all?
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    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Gavin Williamson "hits the roof" after finding out that Brexit means being frozen out of Galileo.

    God! How mediocre this Brexit.

    Is there really a risk the US will turn off GPS for the UK? Seems like a giant vanity project to me.
    I believe the risk is that when the world goes to defcon insane the US encrypts GPS and is choosy about to whom if anyone, except its own forces, it gives a

    The modern way that the US blocks GPS usage involves (effectively) the US jamming it themselves for limited geographical areas.
    Of course we don't know for sure if the functionality has actually been disabled/removed.
    IANAE, but AFAIAA it is much more complex than that, with two sets of signals - one civvie and one military. The civvie one has always been available; the military one has not.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_signals#Precision_code

    Though GPS has got even more complex with the later class satellites.

    And they do still have the ability to screw with GPS signals - every so often there are notices that GPS signals will be degraded around training areas through jammers.

    E.g.: https://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2012/03/07/military-exercises-will-zap-gps-signals-in-three-areas
    Selective availability was the old system, that has supposedly been disabled. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_analysis_for_the_Global_Positioning_System#Selective_availability

    I think you can jam any radio signal, that's not a feature of the GPS network.
    To *effectively* jam GPS takes a bit more than mis-tuning a walkie talkie. Hence quite a bit of money was spent on the selective denial system.

    The military code was encrypted - not to hide it from the enemy, but for 2 other reasons. The first was digital signature - the encryption ensures that faking a signal is hard. The second was that if you have the encryption key, it become possible to get a lock when the signal is lower strength than the jamming.
    The closest thing to an identified source in the FT story is "allies of Gavin Williamson," who I am now convinced has a firm strategy of being an arsehole like IDS only more so, in the hope it gets him where it got IDS. This is a non-story which will go away but leave a faint trace of a memory in the brains of Col. & Mrs Tory-Bigot of Gavin standing up for Blighty, again.
    He is a pratt - and I am a member
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    Scott_P said:
    Called it the other day, Stephen Parkinson is toast.

    To think people said 'nothing will change'
    It looks like Dominic Cummings is trying to pull Robbie Gibb under the £350m a week bus as well.
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    DavidL said:

    Anyone believe I am going to wake up tomorrow morning with England still batting? Anyone at all?

    Yorkshire's Jonny Bairstow will save us.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited March 2018
    So it seems the prospect of taking to the streets to protest against Jezza's Labour will see him take notice and try and pre-empt it..... . guess that makes sense it would...

    Secondly, I presume Baroness C is going to resign?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
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    So it seems the prospect of taking to the streets to protest against Jezza's Labour will see him take notice and try and pre-empt it..... . guess that makes sense it would...

    Secondly, I presume Baroness C is going to resign?

    ICYMI

    https://twitter.com/SunBets/status/977860157848899585
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    edited March 2018
    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.
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    DavidL said:

    Anyone believe I am going to wake up tomorrow morning with England still batting? Anyone at all?

    well the clocks have gone forward an hour so there's a slightly better chance but then again they play until 9.30am now
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited March 2018
    Stuart Broad as much as said so earlier, right or not.
    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    And as has been made repeatedly clear, leaving can mean almost anything from no deal to brexit in name only, so frankly while we might be unreasonable to try to remain in specific projects and organisations post brexit, saying we voted to leave specific ones or suffering technical and contractual issues because of the brexit vote is as meaningless as saying 'brexit means brexit', since it has been made clear by leavers and remainers (the one in fear, the other in hope) that our leaving could have few practical consequences, depending on what price we are willing to pay (not merely in euros, there are some things we won't end up with because their political price is too high).
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017043168587777

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017044842106880
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    So it seems the prospect of taking to the streets to protest against Jezza's Labour will see him take notice and try and pre-empt it..... . guess that makes sense it would...

    Secondly, I presume Baroness C is going to resign?

    ICYMI

    https://twitter.com/SunBets/status/977860157848899585
    missed what?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017043168587777

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017044842106880
    lol, they are worried about the programme being "irretrievably compromised" by the UK being a member after Brexit, yet China is okay? Righto.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    If we are kicked out, I assume we can net our contributions to it against other liabilities?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
    Well, you obviously didn't. Or were the accessions of China, Israel, Ukraine, India and Morocco to Galileo fictitious, like the Turkey/EU accession talks?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited March 2018
    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017043168587777

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017044842106880
    lol, they are worried about the programme being "irretrievably compromised" by the UK being a member after Brexit, yet China is okay? Righto.
    It's the sort of thing which argues in favour of their negotiating ruthlessness, which they are entitled to, but rather does the lie about how rational and reasonable their reasoning is on such things.
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    Another Brexit bonus, for France.

    The issue is highly charged politically since French companies are expected be the main beneficiaries if the UK were excluded from the next round of tendering for sensitive contracts.

    https://www.ft.com/content/80dd2f68-3031-11e8-b5bf-23cb17fd1498
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,286
    edited March 2018
    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017043168587777

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017044842106880
    The key word is current transition. The transition has not been agreed and there are 50 billion reason why these problems will be addressed
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    So it seems the prospect of taking to the streets to protest against Jezza's Labour will see him take notice and try and pre-empt it..... . guess that makes sense it would...

    Secondly, I presume Baroness C is going to resign?

    ICYMI

    https://twitter.com/SunBets/status/977860157848899585
    missed what?
    The tweet about Dele Alli being a bigger cheat than the Aussie cricket team.
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    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017043168587777

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017044842106880
    lol, they are worried about the programme being "irretrievably compromised" by the UK being a member after Brexit, yet China is okay? Righto.
    It is about certains parts of the system.

    The European Commission wrote to the UK in January to explain that it would be inappropriate to divulge highly sensitive information about post-2019 PRS plans to a departing member state.

    “If the commission shared this information with the UK (which will become a third country) it would irretrievably compromise the integrity of certain elements of these systems for many years after the withdrawal of the UK,” the commission said, according to an official who had seen the letter.

    Only EU members can currently access the encrypted PRS system.
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    So it seems the prospect of taking to the streets to protest against Jezza's Labour will see him take notice and try and pre-empt it..... . guess that makes sense it would...

    Secondly, I presume Baroness C is going to resign?

    ICYMI

    https://twitter.com/SunBets/status/977860157848899585
    missed what?
    The tweet about Dele Alli being a bigger cheat than the Aussie cricket team.
    Bunkum, twaddle and pish. Cammo being proved right once again about twitter.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    RobD said:

    Scott_P said:

    RobD said:

    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017043168587777

    https://twitter.com/SophiaBesch/status/978017044842106880
    lol, they are worried about the programme being "irretrievably compromised" by the UK being a member after Brexit, yet China is okay? Righto.
    It is about certains parts of the system.

    The European Commission wrote to the UK in January to explain that it would be inappropriate to divulge highly sensitive information about post-2019 PRS plans to a departing member state.

    “If the commission shared this information with the UK (which will become a third country) it would irretrievably compromise the integrity of certain elements of these systems for many years after the withdrawal of the UK,” the commission said, according to an official who had seen the letter.

    Only EU members can currently access the encrypted PRS system.
    The old data sharing system is coming to an end, and we're going to need a new one.

    Not sure what's difficult or controversial about that: it does not speak to the likelihood one will be agreed.
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    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
    Well, you obviously didn't. Or were the accessions of China, Israel, Ukraine, India and Morocco to Galileo fictitious, like the Turkey/EU accession talks?
    Indeed. We would have the same "access" as the countries you list. But not the same access as EU member states or the access we had before.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
    They'll be added to the deselection list by the Cult.
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    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    I do think it's instructive what it is that leads him to react.... it wasn't his own MPs, it wasn't the Jewish Chronicle asking him about the mural comment in 2015, it wasn't after the whitewash report by his anointed Baroness, it wasn't after his chum with the Hitler issues etc etc.

    People taking to the streets or the prospect of it - he get's that and indeed it's what he's done for most of his career - it probably hurts that just for once he can't turn up and do his normal stump pitch at it.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
    They'll be added to the deselection list by the Cult.
    Labour would be better off with the Cure than the Cult.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Scott_P said:
    Absolutely. Protesting the failures of your own leader, while staying within his party when you know efforts to remove him are futile, is pathetic.
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    ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
    They'll be added to the deselection list by the Cult.
    Labour would be better off with the Cure than the Cult.
    I very rarely find myself on your side of the fence; this is one of those rare occasions
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    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
    They'll be added to the deselection list by the Cult.
    Labour would be better off with the Cure than the Cult.
    I very rarely find myself on your side of the fence; this is one of those rare occasions
    There are the occasions I agree with William too
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
    Well, you obviously didn't. Or were the accessions of China, Israel, Ukraine, India and Morocco to Galileo fictitious, like the Turkey/EU accession talks?
    Indeed. We would have the same "access" as the countries you list. But not the same access as EU member states or the access we had before.
    Sure. I must say though that it looks a bit silly and pretendy for the EU to have military grade gps when it doesn't have a military. I suppose it is important for the Maltese Defence Force to know exactly where it is at all times.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited March 2018
    RoyalBlue said:

    Scott_P said:
    Absolutely. Protesting the failures of your own leader, while staying within his party when you know efforts to remove him are futile, is pathetic.
    Any word from John Woodcock on all this I wonder? He actually did say he would not countenance voting to place Corbyn in Downing Street, prior to the GE, although he was obviously wrong about how Labour would do under Corbyn generally. I note there was a swing to the Tories in his constituency, but not enough to unseat him. But he took a bold move in being so clear where he stood at least.

    But yet, the Labour MPs doing nothing no longer engender sympathy. I get they don't have the means to defeat him, but the stuff they moan about (mostly) anonymously to the press outside crunch times is more than mere minor policy disagreement.

    But in fairness there were a handful of Tory MPs who clearly wanted to be UKIP but lacked the balls.
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    Ishmael_Z said:

    The closest thing to an identified source in the FT story is "allies of Gavin Williamson," who I am now convinced has a firm strategy of being an arsehole like IDS only more so, in the hope it gets him where it got IDS.

    "The lightweight man is here to stay, and he's turning up the cringe factor."
    I heard his comment about Russia shutting up and going away. My immediate impression was that his voice was untenable for the communication age.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
    I'd expect him to change his mind on meeting with them.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710
    Ishmael_Z said:

    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
    Well, you obviously didn't. Or were the accessions of China, Israel, Ukraine, India and Morocco to Galileo fictitious, like the Turkey/EU accession talks?
    Indeed. We would have the same "access" as the countries you list. But not the same access as EU member states or the access we had before.
    Sure. I must say though that it looks a bit silly and pretendy for the EU to have military grade gps when it doesn't have a military. I suppose it is important for the Maltese Defence Force to know exactly where it is at all times.
    Why not? They will be doing stuff on the Mediterranean. Rescuing refugees etc.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
    They'll be added to the deselection list by the Cult.
    Labour would be better off with the Cure than the Cult.
    I very rarely find myself on your side of the fence; this is one of those rare occasions
    :lol:

    But, seriously, in case anyone has missed this. It is blistering. Indeed, should be possibly be career finishing:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/978014010032508929
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Ishmael_Z said:

    The closest thing to an identified source in the FT story is "allies of Gavin Williamson," who I am now convinced has a firm strategy of being an arsehole like IDS only more so, in the hope it gets him where it got IDS.

    "The lightweight man is here to stay, and he's turning up the cringe factor."
    I heard his comment about Russia shutting up and going away. My immediate impression was that his voice was untenable for the communication age.
    It does lack impressiveness. It may be harsh, although the content of his utterances rarely seem to inspire either, but such things can have an effect. Although worrying about it too much is probably wrong too - remember the Israeli party leader who had himself dubbed in a video because apparently a poll showed his voice was an issue? (Yes he did the dub to make a point, but it still shows taking such a concern too seriously I should think)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Scott_P said:
    'I've seen something amazing, but I cannot tell you anything about it'. Thanks for the update
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    I do think it's instructive what it is that leads him to react.... it wasn't his own MPs, it wasn't the Jewish Chronicle asking him about the mural comment in 2015, it wasn't after the whitewash report by his anointed Baroness, it wasn't after his chum with the Hitler issues etc etc.

    People taking to the streets or the prospect of it - he get's that and indeed it's what he's done for most of his career - it probably hurts that just for once he can't turn up and do his normal stump pitch at it.
    Good point. For maybe the first time in his life, he is the "Establishment"/"Imperialist" that the streets are protesting about.

    Must really hurt.

    Perhaps he will consider more time at his allotment?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
    Well, you obviously didn't. Or were the accessions of China, Israel, Ukraine, India and Morocco to Galileo fictitious, like the Turkey/EU accession talks?
    Indeed. We would have the same "access" as the countries you list. But not the same access as EU member states or the access we had before.
    Sure. I must say though that it looks a bit silly and pretendy for the EU to have military grade gps when it doesn't have a military. I suppose it is important for the Maltese Defence Force to know exactly where it is at all times.
    Why not? They will be doing stuff on the Mediterranean. Rescuing refugees etc.
    There are a number of active missions further afield.
    image
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    'I've seen something amazing, but I cannot tell you anything about it'. Thanks for the update
    Nauseatingly, I think we can guess at what the "frank" bit might involve.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.

    What matters is how the Donald reacts, given how hard he tried to stop it being aired at all
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    https://twitter.com/ChukaUmunna/status/978024809828372480

    No Chuka, I am afraid you have become a personality cult. And you need to do something. Something very difficult and radical...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Corbyn finally reacts. How many hours must McD have spent trying to persuade him to admit there is a problem?

    But he is refusing to meet his MPs tomorrow some of whom are joining the demonstration on behalf of the Jewish community
    They'll be added to the deselection list by the Cult.
    Labour would be better off with the Cure than the Cult.
    I very rarely find myself on your side of the fence; this is one of those rare occasions
    :lol:

    But, seriously, in case anyone has missed this. It is blistering. Indeed, should be possibly be career finishing:

    https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/978014010032508929
    Particularly for those who would say Corbyn ie neither anti-semitic nor succours those who are, the ending is critical - 'Rightly or wrongly, those who push this offensive material regard Jeremy Corbyn as their figurehead....[he] is the only person with the standing to demand that all of this stops'

    Hopefully it will (and in any other places it is occurring). As seen in the link from last september the last time this row erupted in a big way, some have prevented any action by saying the claims themselves are not true, and that is part of anti-corbyn smears and the like. With Corbyn saying there is a problem (of some kind), that line should no longer fly, inasmuch as it ever did.
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    edited March 2018

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Ah, twitter - very first reply to PolHome editor's tweeting of the letter from the Board of Deputies of British Jews

    Sooner rather than later Jews in UK realise they don't have the monopoly on victim status and stop politicising their past to score brownie points, the better. Other minorities have suffered worse. Voy, voy, infamy, infamy, they've all got it in for me. Sue or be damned.

    Thank god we don' judge the worth of our society, or world society, by the crap on social media, notwithstanding all the good things it can bring

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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Here they are, the quintessential Cult member, expressing their views on Chukka and protests at Corbyn:

    https://twitter.com/fezzthoughts/status/978028902357635072

    Will Britain really put this man in Downing Street? I fear it might...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    I know many Tories have commented on all this Labour stuff, including Cabinet ministers, but has May, or is she keeping right out of it?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,286
    edited March 2018
    Rhubarb said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
    Remind me - what did Bill Clinton get up to in the oval office - didn't seem to do him any harm

    Edit

    I am not excusing Trump,- he is a disaster
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Here they are, the quintessential Cult member, expressing their views on Chukka and protests at Corbyn:

    https://twitter.com/fezzthoughts/status/978028902357635072

    Will Britain really put this man in Downing Street? I fear it might...

    He is the British Trump.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
    Well, you obviously didn't. Or were the accessions of China, Israel, Ukraine, India and Morocco to Galileo fictitious, like the Turkey/EU accession talks?
    Indeed. We would have the same "access" as the countries you list. But not the same access as EU member states or the access we had before.
    Sure. I must say though that it looks a bit silly and pretendy for the EU to have military grade gps when it doesn't have a military. I suppose it is important for the Maltese Defence Force to know exactly where it is at all times.
    Why not? They will be doing stuff on the Mediterranean. Rescuing refugees etc.
    For which normal civilian GPS will be entirely adequate.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    Rhubarb said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
    Tiny hands...tiny....gloves?
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    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359

    Rhubarb said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
    Remind me - what did Bill Clinton get up to in the oval office - didn't seem to do him any harm
    Exactly. Rich-man-plays-away is priced in (and may even be admired among certain elements of his voter base). Creepy bastard or impotent isn't.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Rhubarb said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
    Remind me - what did Bill Clinton get up to in the oval office - didn't seem to do him any harm

    Edit

    I am not excusing Trump,- he is a disaster
    The other difference is Trump has cheated on his previous wives, this was prior to becoming POTUS and he wasn't running on a ticket of back to basics social values.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Rhubarb said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
    Tiny hands...tiny....gloves?
    As we memorably were told in a party presidential candidate debate, he assures us there's no such issue. Prime television, that was. I bet he had to be talked out of whipping it out (sorry for the image).
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.
    I'm sure we can. However we voted to Leave it. Therefore we need to negotiate our re-admission. We can't merely pretend we just carry on as before.
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    kle4 said:

    I know many Tories have commented on all this Labour stuff, including Cabinet ministers, but has May, or is she keeping right out of it?

    She did refer to it at the last PMQ 's
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    kle4 said:

    I know many Tories have commented on all this Labour stuff, including Cabinet ministers, but has May, or is she keeping right out of it?

    She did refer to it at the last PMQ 's
    when the enemy is making a mistake, stand back etc.
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    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.
    I'm sure we can. However we voted to Leave it. Therefore we need to negotiate our re-admission. We can't merely pretend we just carry on as before.
    Agree with you Dixie and after last week the willingness to cooperate will hopefully continue. Fingers crossed
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,962
    edited March 2018
    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.
    I'm sure we can. However we voted to Leave it. Therefore we need to negotiate our re-admission. We can't merely pretend we just carry on as before.
    Agreed, but given the UK has contributed significantly into the current program and is actively involved in the construction of additional satellites, I can't imagine why they'd not welcome the UK's continued involvement. Apart from a punishment for leaving, of course.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    I know many Tories have commented on all this Labour stuff, including Cabinet ministers, but has May, or is she keeping right out of it?

    She did refer to it at the last PMQ 's
    Obviously the main concern is that antisemitism is rooted out of wherever it is found and frankly who cares the impact on either side's poll ratings or impact in constituencies, but taking a look at this politically, how hard will the Tories go on this I wonder? Getting enthusiastic over Labour divisions, on any issues, generally seems to undermine those causing the divisions since they don't want to give the Tories joy, but this is a more serious matter on which those MPs speaking out can more easily defend why. On the other hand keeping mostly out of it seems far safer.

    Who knows, maybe the meetings Corbyn is intending to have with Jewish groups in the coming weeks and months (first item on the agenda, what was the point of the Chakrabarti report?) will actually yield some positive returns, which would be for the best all around.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Rhubarb said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
    Remind me - what did Bill Clinton get up to in the oval office - didn't seem to do him any harm

    Edit

    I am not excusing Trump,- he is a disaster
    Clinton was impeached over it, which massively harmed his legislative focus and achievements.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Here they are, the quintessential Cult member, expressing their views on Chukka and protests at Corbyn:

    https://twitter.com/fezzthoughts/status/978028902357635072

    Will Britain really put this man in Downing Street? I fear it might...

    He is the British Trump.
    And Labour MPs complicit in not speaking out are the British Republicans.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    Nothing is going to change inside the Labour party. I am pleased, though, that the far-left’s embrace of anti-Semites and Jew-baiters is now getting a much wider airing. And I’m pleased that it’s discomfiting Corbyn and his mates. It’s the least they deserve. The tragedy, of course, is that all this will just cement the Tories in power for years to come. But that’s what putting the far left in control always does. They are the best friends the Tories have.
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    Well time to call it a night. I think we all know tomorrows agenda by the media.

    Corbyn 's problems and Trump's (maybe)

    Have a restful night one and all
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.
    I'm sure we can. However we voted to Leave it. Therefore we need to negotiate our re-admission. We can't merely pretend we just carry on as before.
    Agree with you Dixie and after last week the willingness to cooperate will hopefully continue. Fingers crossed
    Well yes. We do seem to be moving forward in a better spirit. To keep it going both sides need to remember it was our choice. EU needs to see we are not an enemy or an adversary. Equally we need to understand we have no right to select which bits we like and then complain when we are not automatically entitled to the benefits.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    Nothing is going to change inside the Labour party. I am pleased, though, that the far-left’s embrace of anti-Semites and Jew-baiters is now getting a much wider airing. And I’m pleased that it’s discomfiting Corbyn and his mates. It’s the least they deserve. The tragedy, of course, is that all this will just cement the Tories in power for years to come. But that’s what putting the far left in control always does. They are the best friends the Tories have.

    Unfortunately, I'm not as convinced that the public, especially the under 45s, won't roll the dice and put Corbyn and clowns in No. 10.
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    ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,505
    edited March 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    FF43 said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    dixiedean said:

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.

    And "everyone knew what they were voting for"
    Well, you obviously didn't. Or were the accessions of China, Israel, Ukraine, India and Morocco to Galileo fictitious, like the Turkey/EU accession talks?
    Indeed. We would have the same "access" as the countries you list. But not the same access as EU member states or the access we had before.
    Sure. I must say though that it looks a bit silly and pretendy for the EU to have military grade gps when it doesn't have a military. I suppose it is important for the Maltese Defence Force to know exactly where it is at all times.
    Quite important for us too

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-invade-spain-2002-accidentally-royal-marine-lord-west-gibraltar-first-sea-lord-beach-a7665716.html
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Scott_P said:
    No swing on BF.

    Given that making it to 2020 has an active market and a very tight spread (1.34 v 1.35) I have laid off my otherwise green position.

    If the market is unmoved by say, next week, it will cost me much less to buy back than I might stand to win.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Elliot said:

    Here they are, the quintessential Cult member, expressing their views on Chukka and protests at Corbyn:

    https://twitter.com/fezzthoughts/status/978028902357635072

    Will Britain really put this man in Downing Street? I fear it might...

    He is the British Trump.
    And Labour MPs complicit in not speaking out are the British Republicans.
    :+1:

    Although, looking at twitter tonight, there is a hell of a lot of 'stop just tweeting, and actually do something' directed at moderate Labour.

    Tipping point?

    Almost certainly not.
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    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.
    I'm sure we can. However we voted to Leave it. Therefore we need to negotiate our re-admission. We can't merely pretend we just carry on as before.
    Agree with you Dixie and after last week the willingness to cooperate will hopefully continue. Fingers crossed
    Well yes. We do seem to be moving forward in a better spirit. To keep it going both sides need to remember it was our choice. EU needs to see we are not an enemy or an adversary. Equally we need to understand we have no right to select which bits we like and then complain when we are not automatically entitled to the benefits.
    We are on the same page

    Have a good night
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Elliot said:

    Here they are, the quintessential Cult member, expressing their views on Chukka and protests at Corbyn:

    https://twitter.com/fezzthoughts/status/978028902357635072

    Will Britain really put this man in Downing Street? I fear it might...

    He is the British Trump.
    And Labour MPs complicit in not speaking out are the British Republicans.
    :+1:

    Although, looking at twitter tonight, there is a hell of a lot of 'stop just tweeting, and actually do something' directed at moderate Labour.

    Tipping point?

    Almost certainly not.
    We all know what tipping point is, and we know Labour MPs won't do it.

    We MIGHT get a few more front bench resignations.
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    RobD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Elliot said:

    If the EU freezes us out of Galileo, we should surely freeze them out of all our intelligence provision.

    We're not being "frozen out". We voted to Leave it.
    If China, Israel, the Ukraine, and Morocco can be members, I am not sure why the UK can't.
    I'm sure we can. However we voted to Leave it. Therefore we need to negotiate our re-admission. We can't merely pretend we just carry on as before.
    Agreed, but given the UK has contributed significantly into the current program and is actively involved in the construction of additional satellites, I can't imagine why they'd not welcome the UK's continued involvement. Apart from a punishment for leaving, of course.
    But it isn't a "punishment", That is loaded language. We voluntarily left. Therefore we need to ask to be re-admitted. And negotiate the terms.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    Elliot said:

    Here they are, the quintessential Cult member, expressing their views on Chukka and protests at Corbyn:

    https://twitter.com/fezzthoughts/status/978028902357635072

    Will Britain really put this man in Downing Street? I fear it might...

    He is the British Trump.
    And Labour MPs complicit in not speaking out are the British Republicans.
    :+1:

    Although, looking at twitter tonight, there is a hell of a lot of 'stop just tweeting, and actually do something' directed at moderate Labour.

    Tipping point?

    Almost certainly not.
    We all know what tipping point is, and we know Labour MPs won't do it.

    We MIGHT get a few more front bench resignations.
    Doubt it now, only the Cultist are 'serving' on Jezza's front bench surely?*

    * Apart from Starmer, who is doing it for national service reasons.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Scott_P said:
    What do these people expect Labour moderates to do, exactly? They already tried to trigger a leadership contest against Corbyn. They even tried to prevent him from running again. They lost on both counts. They got a result in June which cemented Corbyn’s power in Labour. Outside of the PLP Corbyn controls the Labour Party. Even if they were to trigger a split, it’s likely they’d be the biggest losers - moderate left of centre parties have been getting beaten throughout Europe these past couple of years and the Labour brand is a draw for many voters. Chris Leslie, John Woodcock and even Yvette Cooper are not Shirley Williams or Joy Jenkins. The Labour moderates, as that FT article makes clear, have already lost.

    Now looking back, they really needed to provide a compelling alternative to Corbynism, as opposed to simply arguing ‘Corbynism is bad.’ Both they and the Tories made the same mistake, and it’s only caused both groups problems.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,931
    JVL is a small group formed specifically to give Corbyn and the far left cover.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited March 2018
    Interesting, essentially calling the Board of Deputies Tory stooges. I would be curious if they are right about the following:

    We would hope that any organisation claiming to represent Jews would be calling them to account when, to cite two examples in the last two months, the Prime Minister‘s ex Chief of Staff uses a national newspaper to dredge up an antisemitic conspiracy theory, and Havering Conservative party issues a dogwhistle leaflet hoping to mobilise racism in their local election campaign. The Board of Deputies has been silent on both.

    All the same, it is running into a problem in that it essentially says this is all manufactured nonsense ('The Board of Deputies and those supporting them must be aware that this is an attempt to influence local elections and has nothing to do with the real and necessary task of challenging racism and anti-semitism at all levels of political life')...but Corbyn has said that there is a problem to be addressed.

    So they are in fact not only attacking the Board of Deputies (about whom I know nothing) but are attacking their own leader!

    edit eg the comment under that link

    We are seeing a recurrence of the false anti-semitism campaign in time for the elections. What is needed under the new General Secretary is a robust reaction to this attack, not conceding to it.

    Well, commenter, sorry to say that Mr Corbyn has already conceded to there being an issue, so you're too late.

    Also, bit early for the elections isn't it?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,580
    Scott_P said:
    Ms Daniels appears quite smart and articulate, and has an extremely accomplished and media savvy lawyer:
    http://avenatti.com/bio/

    Will be interesting to see how Trump reacts to the interview...
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957

    Scott_P said:
    What do these people expect Labour moderates to do, exactly? They already tried to trigger a leadership contest against Corbyn. They even tried to prevent him from running again. They lost on both counts. They got a result in June which cemented Corbyn’s power in Labour. Outside of the PLP Corbyn controls the Labour Party. Even if they were to trigger a split, it’s likely they’d be the biggest losers - moderate left of centre parties have been getting beaten throughout Europe these past couple of years and the Labour brand is a draw for many voters. Chris Leslie, John Woodcock and even Yvette Cooper are not Shirley Williams or Joy Jenkins. The Labour moderates, as that FT article makes clear, have already lost.

    Now looking back, they really needed to provide a compelling alternative to Corbynism, as opposed to simply arguing ‘Corbynism is bad.’ Both they and the Tories made the same mistake, and it’s only caused both groups problems.
    Indeed. There is no great groundswell of voter demand for a "business as usual, but slightly nicer about it" party.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited March 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ms Daniels appears quite smart and articulate, and has an extremely accomplished and media savvy lawyer:
    http://avenatti.com/bio/

    Will be interesting to see how Trump reacts to the interview...
    Bloody basketball overrun is delaying start of 60 Minutes. Bah!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited March 2018

    Scott_P said:
    What do these people expect Labour moderates to do, exactly? They already tried to trigger a leadership contest against Corbyn. They even tried to prevent him from running again. They lost on both counts. They got a result in June which cemented Corbyn’s power in Labour. Outside of the PLP Corbyn controls the Labour Party. Even if they were to trigger a split, it’s likely they’d be the biggest losers - moderate left of centre parties have been getting beaten throughout Europe these past couple of years and the Labour brand is a draw for many voters. Chris Leslie, John Woodcock and even Yvette Cooper are not Shirley Williams or Joy Jenkins. The Labour moderates, as that FT article makes clear, have already lost.

    Now looking back, they really needed to provide a compelling alternative to Corbynism, as opposed to simply arguing ‘Corbynism is bad.’ Both they and the Tories made the same mistake, and it’s only caused both groups problems.
    You are quite right, and everyone knows Corbyn would win abother leadership content, so I presume what people want when they say 'disassociate yourself from his leadership' they must mean either resign the whip, which seems unlikely to be the wish, or to at the least publicly state something like 'I will continue to vote in accordance with party policy, to advance labour values for the benefit of everyone in this country which needs them so badly, but I make clear I cannot personally support the idea of Jeremy Corbyn being prime minister'.

    Reasonable? Perhaps not. Credible? Not really. But I presume people want the moderates to do something, or they've forgotten they have already lost.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    JVL is a small group formed specifically to give Corbyn and the far left cover.

    I'm shocked I tell you...
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    Elliot said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/maitlis/status/978032242504163329

    What exactly can she say on a prime time tv show that will be that exciting? I banged the Donald, the cheater.
    Unless it's 'He called me Ivanka' or 'He couldn't get it up and then cried' I doubt this is going to be the knockout blow to his reputation we want.
    Remind me - what did Bill Clinton get up to in the oval office - didn't seem to do him any harm

    Edit

    I am not excusing Trump,- he is a disaster
    Clinton was impeached over it, which massively harmed his legislative focus and achievements.
    Clinton was impeached for lying about it. Crucial point.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    rpjs said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:
    Ms Daniels appears quite smart and articulate, and has an extremely accomplished and media savvy lawyer:
    http://avenatti.com/bio/

    Will be interesting to see how Trump reacts to the interview...
    Bloody basketball overrun is delaying start of 60 Minutes. Bah!
    Great! Last second equalizer so it goes into "overtime". Magic.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    What a bleak day for British politics. But it is time to say 'Night all'.
This discussion has been closed.