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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited March 2018

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of the second admonition.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    JackW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of your second admonition.
    I had to look up 'admonition'. Aside from that, no comment. ;)
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    kle4 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Are we really believing the bowlers had no knowledge of the ball tampering?

    Smith had said the leadership group discussed it. We're to believe that consists only of him and Warner?
    It is also surprising that Group didn't include the wicketkeeper, who would understand the bowling conditions best and is a very experienced player.

    Doesn't suggest the healthiest of team environments.
    I make no accusations, but when people are prepared to go to these lengths to win matches, is there any reason to suppose they're likely to tell the truth about it afterwards? Are they under oath, or something?
    When caught people confess to many things, including murder. But given the leadership group comments from before, if this is the extent of that group then Smith was trying to deflect from his own culpability by implying several more were involved, or the three lied now to save a few others.

    Either way, Smith doesn't come out of it well. So silly, when he's the best batsman in the world.
    If another of the team has bullying propensities, it's possible he may simply be too weak to cope with it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    I have to say, even if Lehman didn't know about this, it's difficult to see how he can continue. This suggests a team that's being appallingly mismanaged one way and another. The sheer amount of bullying implied on its own is frightening.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    +1
  • Options
    Who was the PBer that tipped Jeremy Hunt as Theresa May's successor at 100/1?

    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/978690466752487426
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    JackW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of your second admonition.
    I had to look up 'admonition'. Aside from that, no comment. ;)
    And I utterly missed the biblical reference ...
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    I ma no fan of Chakrabarti. However, I refer you to Terrence Rattigan's famous character Sir Robert Morton, when asked why he was ashamed of his emotions:

    'Because in my profession I must necessarily distrust them. To fight a case on emotional grounds is the surest way to lose it. Cold clear logic and buckets of it should be a lawyer's only weapon.'
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Aside from the cheating, the crass stupidity the Aussies showed in ball tampering in a test ground surrounded by TV and mobile phone cameras is gob smacking.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921

    Who was the PBer that tipped Jeremy Hunt as Theresa May's successor at 100/1?

    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/978690466752487426

    He is sailing troubled waters rather well.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664
    edited March 2018

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    That seems a little harsh. While there'd be nothing wrong with a bit of smiling or laughing even during some serious and weighty discussion, a more solemn demeanour doesn't seen untoward. She might be a very smiley and pleasant person at other times. And even if not, that's her business.

    The most I would say is she is not especially charismatic, though she has a decent level of presence in front of the camera, having had plenty of practice.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Ignoring anti semitism is a serious business. One can't simply ignore it with a smile.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Chukka Umunna stands out as a leadership contender for a New Lab-Lib Dem alliance.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    edited March 2018

    Aside from the cheating, the crass stupidity the Aussies showed in ball tampering in a test ground surrounded by TV and mobile phone cameras is gob smacking.

    A lawyer acquaintance of mine claimed that most policemen are thick; but that's fine, as they only need to be more intelligent than the criminals, who are mostly even more thick.

    In this case, they're utterly thick. Reputations have been destroyed.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664

    Who was the PBer that tipped Jeremy Hunt as Theresa May's successor at 100/1?

    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/978690466752487426

    If he can keep a lid on NHS problems, or god forbid solve some, the Tories have a much better chance and he would deserve to be among the most powerful.
  • Options
    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    So whilst Labour are talking about Corbyn's hat and a mural the Government is getting on with the Russia crisis, the Brexit Transition deal, and a series of NHS pay and investment initiatives.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    She has always had a sanctimonious air about her. Permanently tarnished her own reputation by her elevation to the Lords under those circumstances.

    She is the sort of person who might reasonably have been considered for a peerage (like her or not) but to have it happen under those circumstances means it will always appear as it if might have come with conditions.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    ydoethur said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    I ma no fan of Chakrabarti. However, I refer you to Terrence Rattigan's famous character Sir Robert Morton, when asked why he was ashamed of his emotions:

    'Because in my profession I must necessarily distrust them. To fight a case on emotional grounds is the surest way to lose it. Cold clear logic and buckets of it should be a lawyer's only weapon.'
    Perhaps, but wit, charm and humour are also deployable.

    She just seems a total mood-hoover to me. I don’t think I could bear to be in the same room as her.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    rcs1000 said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Ignoring anti semitism is a serious business. One can't simply ignore it with a smile.
    Good one.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    JackW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of your second admonition.
    I had to look up 'admonition'. Aside from that, no comment. ;)
    And I utterly missed the biblical reference ...
    Why? Were you perhaps tight as Andronicas?
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Aside from the cheating, the crass stupidity the Aussies showed in ball tampering in a test ground surrounded by TV and mobile phone cameras is gob smacking.

    A lawyer acquaintance of mine claimed that most policemen are thick; but that's fine, as they only need to be more intelligent than the criminals, who are mostly even more thick.

    In this case, they're utterly thick. Reputations have been destroyed.
    The big question is will anything be found on previous video from other tests.. Its quite possible that there is other evidence. Why would they want to cheat against SA who aren't very good? Why were the Ozzie bowlers able to get the ball to swing violently when our bowlers couldn't get it to do little or nothing.. There are lots of unanswered questions..
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, even if Lehman didn't know about this, it's difficult to see how he can continue. This suggests a team that's being appallingly mismanaged one way and another. The sheer amount of bullying implied on its own is frightening.

    Well CA say he is safe and will continue..
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    edited March 2018

    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
    That is easily disproved by going to Google Images. There are some of her smiling - for instance these:
    http://www.atlanticspeakerbureau.com/shami-chakrabarti/speaker
    http://blogs.essex.ac.uk/vc/files/2017/07/shami-in-robes-and-chair-graduation-2017-200x300.jpg

    I need to be careful now, as the following could be misconstrued (or perhaps seen in the manner I meant): the problem might be that it's not a 'nice' smile, and she realises it. That's not her fault. I've known plenty of men with smiles that make them look like wrong 'uns, who are in reality good blokes.

    There is enough to damn her on without commenting on expressions.

    edit: likewise, I've known people I see as 'ugly' in thought and/or looks whose smiles given them a much better countenance.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, even if Lehman didn't know about this, it's difficult to see how he can continue. This suggests a team that's being appallingly mismanaged one way and another. The sheer amount of bullying implied on its own is frightening.

    Well CA say he is safe and will continue..
    His contract is up shortly. I think very soon he will find a reason to be off work until it expires.

    Hopefully somebody of unimpeachable integrity would replace him. Langer and Gillespie are the names I'm hearing - either would do nicely.
  • Options
    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
    I always liked Hazel Blears’ irrepressible chirpiness. I wonder what she’s doing now.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    ydoethur said:

    JackW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of your second admonition.
    I had to look up 'admonition'. Aside from that, no comment. ;)
    And I utterly missed the biblical reference ...
    Why? Were you perhaps tight as Andronicas?
    I'm a pleb. Don't bring coffee into it:
    https://www.andronicas.com/
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    Aside from the cheating, the crass stupidity the Aussies showed in ball tampering in a test ground surrounded by TV and mobile phone cameras is gob smacking.

    A lawyer acquaintance of mine claimed that most policemen are thick; but that's fine, as they only need to be more intelligent than the criminals, who are mostly even more thick.

    In this case, they're utterly thick. Reputations have been destroyed.
    The big question is will anything be found on previous video from other tests.. Its quite possible that there is other evidence. Why would they want to cheat against SA who aren't very good? Why were the Ozzie bowlers able to get the ball to swing violently when our bowlers couldn't get it to do little or nothing.. There are lots of unanswered questions..
    They can't be considered. Complaints about ball tampering need to be lodged very quickly - usually by the end of the day's play. All other considerations aside proving an offence after any lapse of time would be hard.

    What's really bizarre is how easy it is to change the condition of the ball perfectly legally or at the very least without being noticed - and then they go and do something like this with a hundred cameras on them, at a time when they are so widely loathed people are looking for a reason to trip them up!

    'Insanity' just doesn't do it justice...
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    ydoethur said:

    I have to say, even if Lehman didn't know about this, it's difficult to see how he can continue. This suggests a team that's being appallingly mismanaged one way and another. The sheer amount of bullying implied on its own is frightening.

    Well CA say he is safe and will continue..
    Cambridge Analytica are getting too involved in humanity.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280

    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
    That is easily disproved by going to Google Images. There are some of her smiling - for instance these:
    http://www.atlanticspeakerbureau.com/shami-chakrabarti/speaker
    http://blogs.essex.ac.uk/vc/files/2017/07/shami-in-robes-and-chair-graduation-2017-200x300.jpg

    I need to be careful now, as the following could be misconstrued (or perhaps seen in the manner I meant): the problem might be that it's not a 'nice' smile, and she realises it. That's not her fault. I've known plenty of men with smiles that make them look like wrong 'uns, who are in reality good blokes.

    There is enough to damn her on without commenting on expressions.
    One of those barely qualifies, but the other is a start.

    Expressions are important. Personally, I find I can’t listen, yet alone connect, with someone who doesn’t show some level of warmth or levity.

    There’s always a time to be serious but, in her case, that’s all the time and it does come across as insincere and sanctimonious.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited March 2018
    I can’t believe anyone would be seriously concerned about something as trival as not smiling publicly.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    I've known plenty of men with smiles that make them look like wrong 'uns, who are in reality good blokes.

    I think Gavin Williamson falls into that bracket. Well, the bit about the smile making him look like a wrong 'un. Not sure what he's really like!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    edited March 2018

    ydoethur said:

    JackW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of your second admonition.
    I had to look up 'admonition'. Aside from that, no comment. ;)
    And I utterly missed the biblical reference ...
    Why? Were you perhaps tight as Andronicas?
    I'm a pleb. Don't bring coffee into it:
    https://www.andronicas.com/
    Mr Jessop, I was trying to make an obscure pun on the biblical reference in question, the name of one the Bard's plays, and a suggestion as to why you may have missed it.

    Dark-coloured cat's piss sold at premium prices does not otherwise come into it.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,924

    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
    Many moons ago, I heard her on Desert Island Discs. I remember two things about it: Firstly, she had the Kaiser Chief's I Predict a Riot. Secondly, she said that she was incapable of spending time alone, and that was what scared her about the island.

    For the record, I would not have chose I Predict a Riot and - by and large - I prefer my own company. I also smile from time to time.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    edited March 2018

    I can’t believe anyone would be seriously concerned about something as trival as not smiling publicly.

    John O'Farrell described how in the 1980s at Exeter one of his housemates decided smiling was right wing, so he went everywhere pretending to be utterly miserable.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664
    edited March 2018
    tlg86 said:

    I've known plenty of men with smiles that make them look like wrong 'uns, who are in reality good blokes.

    I think Gavin Williamson falls into that bracket. Well, the bit about the smile making him look like a wrong 'un. Not sure what he's really like!
    I've always been amused by the thought of actors who always play villains in general, wholesome situations, like Christopher Lee reading children a bedtime story. If you always see certain people playing villains, I can imagine that being weird for people who are acquaintances.
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    I can’t believe anyone would be seriously concerned about something as trival as not smiling.

    In 2008/09 focus groups for all the parties picked up voters disliking Gordon Brown for not smiling/when he does smile it looks forced.

    This video really was something else

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vor03-uUeuM
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    RoyalBlue said:

    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
    I always liked Hazel Blears’ irrepressible chirpiness. I wonder what she’s doing now.
    I loved that about Hazel Blears.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    edited March 2018
    Kevin Pietersen's view, expressed with his usual reserve and subtlety:
    http://www.twitter.com/KP24/status/978692309771579394
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158
    TOPPING said:

    AnneJGP said:

    TOPPING said:



    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

    Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. :( I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

    Those who voted for a Leave campaign which included those posters implicitly agreed with, and contributed to the direction of the country towards a more xenophobic attitude. They said: yes, this is fine, this is the kind of country I want to be in. They endorsed that xenophobic, hateful campaign and they were prepared to do this because they had some nebulous idea of sovereignty (which we always were, btw).

    That I imagine is why Alastair won't let it go, and quite right that he shouldn't, IMO.
    Nobody voted for a campaign. It wasn't a BGT show.

    It was a decision on whether or not to Remain In or Leave the EU. That was what was on the ballot paper, and that's what people voted on.
    Doesn't wash I'm afraid. The single most influential person, the person without whom there would have been no referendum, the person without whom we would still be in the EU (and great credit to him for all of that)...stood in front of one of those posters and thereby endorsed it.

    And those who voted Leave agreed with him and effectively said: yes - this is the sort of country we want and we will vote for it.
    Presumably any Leave voters who used their postal votes and voted before that poster came out are exempt from your criticism?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664
    More important than smiling or general charisma is knowing whether you could trust a politician to put up a bookcase

    https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/voters-fancy-nick-clegg-but-want-nigel-farage-to-put-up-thei?utm_term=.jlWKQmMlo#.dh9K6Vorb

    How Farage topped that scenario is beyond me.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)
  • Options


    I am pro-Brexit......

    .

    I can see though that it might make it easier for you to deal with it by throwing shit at people's motives so you can bask in the glow that people you agree with are good and those you disagree with are evil. I imagine that people with lower intellects might use such a technique too rather than examining the myriad of reasons that went into people's decisions.....

    Solzhenitsyn put it well:

    “If only if it were so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere committing insidious deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

    .
    An elegant reply but I do feel you are suffering what can only be described as a bereavement and are taking the matter as an absolute affront to your person. It's clear that at present you feel the need to lash out somewhat however the bitter division you mention was also there before the vote but was ignored largely and now it has made itself undeniable intelligent people like yourself (whilst perhaps now feeling like many brexiters before the referendum was confirmed) can, whilst still looking for a "way back" perhaps also use part of your very good brain to think "even if I hate this I love this country (as evidenced by my upset about a bitter division damaging the country) and so I will find ways to make the best of this for the country".

    I really do believe there are many Remainers who if they spent less time railing about Brexit would be able to contribute positively to the future rather than leaving it to Dr Fox et al but it requires an element of positivity on their part which I hope will come sooner rather than later..... Sometimes in life you have to say "well I wouldn't want to be in this situation in the first place but now we are here how do I make the best of it".
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    tlg86 said:

    I've known plenty of men with smiles that make them look like wrong 'uns, who are in reality good blokes.

    I think Gavin Williamson falls into that bracket. Well, the bit about the smile making him look like a wrong 'un. Not sure what he's really like!
    Yeah, there is that.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    rcs1000 said:

    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
    Many moons ago, I heard her on Desert Island Discs. I remember two things about it: Firstly, she had the Kaiser Chief's I Predict a Riot. Secondly, she said that she was incapable of spending time alone, and that was what scared her about the island.

    For the record, I would not have chose I Predict a Riot and - by and large - I prefer my own company. I also smile from time to time.
    Are you allowed a luxury item? Would a computer with a broad connection to PB be acceptable?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited March 2018


    I am pro-Brexit......

    .

    I can see though that it might make it easier for you to deal with it by throwing shit at people's motives so you can bask in the glow that people you agree with are good and those you disagree with are evil. I imagine that people with lower intellects might use such a technique too rather than examining the myriad of reasons that went into people's decisions.....

    Solzhenitsyn put it well:

    “If only if it were so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere committing insidious deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?”

    .
    An elegant reply but I do feel you are suffering what can only be described as a bereavement and are taking the matter as an absolute affront to your person. It's clear that at present you feel the need to lash out somewhat however the bitter division you mention was also there before the vote but was ignored largely and now it has made itself undeniable intelligent people like yourself (whilst perhaps now feeling like many brexiters before the referendum was confirmed) can, whilst still looking for a "way back" perhaps also use part of your very good brain to think "even if I hate this I love this country (as evidenced by my upset about a bitter division damaging the country) and so I will find ways to make the best of this for the country".

    I really do believe there are many Remainers who if they spent less time railing about Brexit would be able to contribute positively to the future rather than leaving it to Dr Fox et al but it requires an element of positivity on their part which I hope will come sooner rather than later..... Sometimes in life you have to say "well I wouldn't want to be in this situation in the first place but now we are here how do I make the best of it".
    The best of it can only be made when Leave advocates come to recognise the disfigurement they have done to British politics. There can be no progress till then.

    The country is in for a long period of decline.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    She smiled and giggled her way through HIGNFY and came across as borderline insane. She was trying too hard to be humorous and it was awful.

    I have no respect for her, knowing a fair amount about her which I am unable to share publicly.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    JackW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of your second admonition.
    I had to look up 'admonition'. Aside from that, no comment. ;)
    And I utterly missed the biblical reference ...
    Why? Were you perhaps tight as Andronicas?
    I'm a pleb. Don't bring coffee into it:
    https://www.andronicas.com/
    Mr Jessop, I was trying to make an obscure pun on the biblical reference in question, the name of one the Bard's plays, and a suggestion as to why you may have missed it.

    Dark-coloured cat's piss sold at premium prices does not otherwise come into it.
    I repeat: I am a pleb. ;)
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    ydoethur said:

    I can’t believe anyone would be seriously concerned about something as trival as not smiling publicly.

    John O'Farrell described how in the 1980s at Exeter one of his housemates decided smiling was right wing, so he went everywhere pretending to be utterly miserable.
    LOL - some people really are a bit weird. Wonder why anyone would think smiling was something specifically right wing.

    I can’t believe anyone would be seriously concerned about something as trival as not smiling.

    In 2008/09 focus groups for all the parties picked up voters disliking Gordon Brown for not smiling/when he does smile it looks forced.

    This video really was something else

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vor03-uUeuM
    Poor Gordon Brown. That video reminds me of when I read somewhere that they tried to apply things Tony Blair did to Gordon Brown’s election campaign and how it didn’t really work.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    JackW said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    David Miliband is a good administrator. But there is a reason he was a poor Foreign Secretary, unable to displace Brown and lost to his brother. He is simply not a leader. He doesn't have the imagination, drive, or clarity of thought needed. Moreover, he is a pretty uninspiring speaker.

    Mandelson is not a man I like, but there is no doubting his shrewdness. He believed 'David doesn't have the lead in his pencil' and given Mandelson knew (unusually for a senior politician) that was also true of himself, I think his judgement demands serious consideration.

    The Liberal Democrats need somebody with flair, vigour, charisma, popularity, not somebody dealing with dull administrative processes. Sounds funny and even counter-intuitive, but what they really need is somebody like Boris Johnson - somebody who may be useless and incompetent but is always news one way or another.
    What is Lembit doing these days?
    Living off the income of a number of rental houses, boozing and whoring (allegedly).
    I've known people life worse lives.
    Me thinks your comment may have been conducted within the scope of your second admonition.
    I had to look up 'admonition'. Aside from that, no comment. ;)
    And I utterly missed the biblical reference ...
    Why? Were you perhaps tight as Andronicas?
    I'm a pleb. Don't bring coffee into it:
    https://www.andronicas.com/
    Mr Jessop, I was trying to make an obscure pun on the biblical reference in question, the name of one the Bard's plays, and a suggestion as to why you may have missed it.

    Dark-coloured cat's piss sold at premium prices does not otherwise come into it.
    I repeat: I am a pleb. ;)
    I would hardly say that I have had two coats and everything handsome about me, yet still I can quote Shakespeare.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664

    ydoethur said:

    I can’t believe anyone would be seriously concerned about something as trival as not smiling publicly.

    John O'Farrell described how in the 1980s at Exeter one of his housemates decided smiling was right wing, so he went everywhere pretending to be utterly miserable.
    LOL - some people really are a bit weird. Wonder why anyone would think smiling was something specifically right wing.

    Baring teeth is a predatory response, just before you sink them into some soft, and probably left wing, prey. Well known.

    But I struggle to believe anyone could think smiling was left or right wing. I can understand why people think only one side is good or bad, however preposterous that is, but smiling? Come on.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    edited March 2018

    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Ken Dodd got off his tax evasion charge when the evidence was absolutely open and shut, so your second point kind of falls...
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited March 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Aside from the cheating, the crass stupidity the Aussies showed in ball tampering in a test ground surrounded by TV and mobile phone cameras is gob smacking.

    A lawyer acquaintance of mine claimed that most policemen are thick; but that's fine, as they only need to be more intelligent than the criminals, who are mostly even more thick.

    In this case, they're utterly thick. Reputations have been destroyed.
    The big question is will anything be found on previous video from other tests.. Its quite possible that there is other evidence. Why would they want to cheat against SA who aren't very good? Why were the Ozzie bowlers able to get the ball to swing violently when our bowlers couldn't get it to do little or nothing.. There are lots of unanswered questions..
    They can't be considered. Complaints about ball tampering need to be lodged very quickly - usually by the end of the day's play. All other considerations aside proving an offence after any lapse of time would be hard.

    What's really bizarre is how easy it is to change the condition of the ball perfectly legally or at the very least without being noticed - and then they go and do something like this with a hundred cameras on them, at a time when they are so widely loathed people are looking for a reason to trip them up!

    'Insanity' just doesn't do it justice...
    can't be considered , yes that's true in terms of punishment, but we need to know exactly how long they have been doing it.... some Autralian "victories" need to be erased from the records....
    Blank pages in Wisden..
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    Cyclefree said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    She smiled and giggled her way through HIGNFY and came across as borderline insane. She was trying too hard to be humorous and it was awful.

    I have no respect for her, knowing a fair amount about her which I am unable to share publicly.
    Really? I never saw that. I must research it.

    You are really teasing the nosey side of my personality with your final sentence.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Danny565 said:


    Isn't it rather counter-productive, from your perspective, to argue that as much as 48% of Brits were "EU fanatics" who were voting for a "single country called Europe"?

    If you follow what I have said you will see I think the whole claim is rubbish. I am just using Meeks' and Topping's own logic against them to show them how idiotic their claims are.

    I do not believe most Remain voters should be tarred as federalists by association just as I do not believe most Leave voters should be tarred as xenophobes by association. But that is the logic of Meeks and Topping.
    It's just bollocks, it would mean you could sabotage any political campaign by getting someone sufficiently odious to support it.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,280
    tlg86 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Elliot said:

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    Women are damned as being too flirty or non-serious if they smile too much and for being joyless if they don't.
    It has precisely nothing to do with her being a woman.

    I have literally never seen her smile once. Ever. I can’t think of a single other woman in public life who’s like that.

    I find it such a turn-off my eyes roll now whenever she appears on screen.
    Many moons ago, I heard her on Desert Island Discs. I remember two things about it: Firstly, she had the Kaiser Chief's I Predict a Riot. Secondly, she said that she was incapable of spending time alone, and that was what scared her about the island.

    For the record, I would not have chose I Predict a Riot and - by and large - I prefer my own company. I also smile from time to time.
    Are you allowed a luxury item? Would a computer with a broad connection to PB be acceptable?
    I’d bring a poster about Turkey’s accession to the EU.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    ydoethur said:


    I would hardly say that I have had two coats and everything handsome about me, yet still I can quote Shakespeare.

    I can go one better than that: Mrs J and I quote Shakespeare to each other, with socks:

    "Socks! Socks! wherefore art thou socks?’"
    "Is this a sock I see before me, the cuff towards my ankle?"
    "Some socks are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust in them."
    "A sock can die but once."
    "Socks are the soul of wit."
    "Off with his socks!"
    "Shall I compare thee to a sock?"
    "All that glitters are not socks."
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    I can’t believe anyone would be seriously concerned about something as trival as not smiling publicly.

    John O'Farrell described how in the 1980s at Exeter one of his housemates decided smiling was right wing, so he went everywhere pretending to be utterly miserable.
    LOL - some people really are a bit weird. Wonder why anyone would think smiling was something specifically right wing.

    Baring teeth is a predatory response, just before you sink them into some soft, and probably left wing, prey. Well known.

    But I struggle to believe anyone could think smiling was left or right wing. I can understand why people think only one side is good or bad, however preposterous that is, but smiling? Come on.
    Tories must have been pretty happy in the 80s, with Thatcher winning all the time and lefties pretty unhappy as well a result. Maybe he put 2 and 2 together and came up with 5?
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,955

    Who was the PBer that tipped Jeremy Hunt as Theresa May's successor at 100/1?

    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/978690466752487426

    The money went to the NHS because that is by far and away the department the voters want most money spent on. Hunt just happens to be Secretary of State for Health so will obviously try and take some of the credit but had he been Secretary of State for Agriculture or Culture still I doubt he would be getting as much money
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    AnneJGP said:

    TOPPING said:



    I see today that 18 months ago you voted for a xenophobic campaign. You have enabled the contamination of British politics in order to pursue a matter of second order importance. Britain will not develop in a positive direction until Leavers confront their own choice and stop hiding behind what they claim to have wanted. What they claim to have wanted was not on offer.

    Please stop this... it's getting a bit embarrassing to read now. :( I bow to nobody in my horror and disappointment at the referendum result but the truth is that both campaigns were terrible. The vast majority of people who voted on both sides were not and are not bad people. If they were then all of us would have to condemn and insult members of our own families and circle of friends in order to be consistent. I see no malice in my loved ones who voted against what I believe to be the national interest and therefore no reason to assume bad intentions in people I don't know either.

    Those who voted for a Leave campaign which included those posters implicitly agreed with, and contributed to the direction of the country towards a more xenophobic attitude. They said: yes, this is fine, this is the kind of country I want to be in. They endorsed that xenophobic, hateful campaign and they were prepared to do this because they had some nebulous idea of sovereignty (which we always were, btw).

    That I imagine is why Alastair won't let it go, and quite right that he shouldn't, IMO.
    Nobody voted for a campaign. It wasn't a BGT show.

    It was a decision on whether or not to Remain In or Leave the EU. That was what was on the ballot paper, and that's what people voted on.
    Doesn't wash I'm afraid. The single most influential person, the person without whom there would have been no referendum, the person without whom we would still be in the EU (and great credit to him for all of that)...stood in front of one of those posters and thereby endorsed it.

    And those who voted Leave agreed with him and effectively said: yes - this is the sort of country we want and we will vote for it.
    Presumably any Leave voters who used their postal votes and voted before that poster came out are exempt from your criticism?
    Most likely, the majority of voters just weighed up the pros and cons, and voted accordingly.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    Aside from the cheating, the crass stupidity the Aussies showed in ball tampering in a test ground surrounded by TV and mobile phone cameras is gob smacking.

    A lawyer acquaintance of mine claimed that most policemen are thick; but that's fine, as they only need to be more intelligent than the criminals, who are mostly even more thick.

    In this case, they're utterly thick. Reputations have been destroyed.
    The big question is will anything be found on previous video from other tests.. Its quite possible that there is other evidence. Why would they want to cheat against SA who aren't very good? Why were the Ozzie bowlers able to get the ball to swing violently when our bowlers couldn't get it to do little or nothing.. There are lots of unanswered questions..
    They can't be considered. Complaints about ball tampering need to be lodged very quickly - usually by the end of the day's play. All other considerations aside proving an offence after any lapse of time would be hard.

    What's really bizarre is how easy it is to change the condition of the ball perfectly legally or at the very least without being noticed - and then they go and do something like this with a hundred cameras on them, at a time when they are so widely loathed people are looking for a reason to trip them up!

    'Insanity' just doesn't do it justice...
    can't be considered , yes that's true in terms of punishment, but we need to know exactly how long they have been doing it....
    I can tell you exactly how long professional cricketers have been ball tampering.

    Ever since there were professional cricketers in...The eighteenth century.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,955
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Ken Dodd got off his tax evasion charge when the evidence was absolutely open and shut, so your second point kind of falls...
    Ken Dodd was helped by having the silky smooth George Carman as his QC
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Ken Dodd got off his tax evasion charge when the evidence was absolutely open and shut, so your second point kind of falls...
    Isn't it the case that the revenue have a tough time getting convictions because jurors tend to sympathise with the accused?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Calm down, dear.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Off topic, the thing that annoys me the most about Baroness Shami Chakrabarti is that she never ever bloody smiles, or laughs.

    Why?

    How do you get through life being that earnest and/or miserable all the time?

    Does she think that for “serious” subjects she always has to be serious to get a hearing? Or does she simply have no joy in her soul?

    https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/978695261533941765
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664
    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Is this the Lady Nugee thing? The whole thing came up when May used it last year - particularly with Boris I wouldn't rule out sexism, but it's possible that they know she doesn't like being called that, so they do it simply to annoy her, regardless of sex.

    That said it is petty, and she has made clear she doesn't like being called it, so in the Commons they certainly shouldn't.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:


    I would hardly say that I have had two coats and everything handsome about me, yet still I can quote Shakespeare.

    I can go one better than that: Mrs J and I quote Shakespeare to each other, with socks:

    "Socks! Socks! wherefore art thou socks?’"
    "Is this a sock I see before me, the cuff towards my ankle?"
    "Some socks are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust in them."
    "A sock can die but once."
    "Socks are the soul of wit."
    "Off with his socks!"
    "Shall I compare thee to a sock?"
    "All that glitters are not socks."
    Upon the next occasion, remember who commended thy yellow stockings and wished to see thee cross-gartered.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Yes, I saw that earlier today though I didn’t think it would get a good reaction here so didn’t post it. It was very funny seeing Boris getting told off like that.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664
    edited March 2018

    ydoethur said:


    I would hardly say that I have had two coats and everything handsome about me, yet still I can quote Shakespeare.

    I can go one better than that: Mrs J and I quote Shakespeare to each other, with socks:

    "Socks! Socks! wherefore art thou socks?’"
    "Is this a sock I see before me, the cuff towards my ankle?"
    "Some socks are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust in them."
    "A sock can die but once."
    "Socks are the soul of wit."
    "Off with his socks!"
    "Shall I compare thee to a sock?"
    "All that glitters are not socks."
    I like to pretend class in paraphrasing the bible, John 4:8, when telling someone I've gone shopping - 'I've gone into town to buy food".
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Or put another way, senior parliamentarian currently under investigation for bullying female staff members exposes his own hypocrisy...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664
    Scott_P said:
    Well they need to, they won't be getting any more.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,921
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Ken Dodd got off his tax evasion charge when the evidence was absolutely open and shut, so your second point kind of falls...
    Wasn't it also the fact that he didn't flaunt the crime? He didn't live in a mansion or have a yacht; he was just someone who had come into money and didn't really know how to handle it?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Ken Dodd got off his tax evasion charge when the evidence was absolutely open and shut, so your second point kind of falls...
    Isn't it the case that the revenue have a tough time getting convictions because jurors tend to sympathise with the accused?
    It may be. But it has to be said it sounds as though Dodd did rather carve up Brian Leveson:

    'One of my problems was my accountant died suddenly.'
    'Did that really matter, Mr Dodd?'
    'Well, it mattered to him.'
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    kle4 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Is this the Lady Nugee thing? The whole thing came up when May used it last year - particularly with Boris I wouldn't rule out sexism, but it's possible that they know she doesn't like being called that, so they do it simply to annoy her, regardless of sex.

    That said it is petty, and she has made clear she doesn't like being called it, so in the Commons they certainly shouldn't.
    Yes just saw it on channel 4 news.Speaker said it was sexist and MPs were not to be called by their spouses names and he was not having it .Even from such high status persons.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Scott_P said:
    They might well be in breach of the law if they did otherwise. Charities have to apply their property towards their charitable objects.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,116

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Ken Dodd got off his tax evasion charge when the evidence was absolutely open and shut, so your second point kind of falls...
    Wasn't it also the fact that he didn't flaunt the crime? He didn't live in a mansion or have a yacht; he was just someone who had come into money and didn't really know how to handle it?
    I think the main error was to hold the trial in Liverpool, tbh. If they'd held it in say Reading, there wouldn't have been so much local sympathy.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,664
    Yorkcity said:

    kle4 said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Is this the Lady Nugee thing? The whole thing came up when May used it last year - particularly with Boris I wouldn't rule out sexism, but it's possible that they know she doesn't like being called that, so they do it simply to annoy her, regardless of sex.

    That said it is petty, and she has made clear she doesn't like being called it, so in the Commons they certainly shouldn't.
    Yes just saw it on channel 4 news.Speaker said it was sexist and MPs were not to be called by their spouses names and he was not having it .Even from such high status persons.
    Odd he didn't react so sternly the last time it happened. Perhaps he has had time to reflect on that incident, or the recent stories about him are rather weighing on him
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Sean_F said:

    Scott_P said:
    They might well be in breach of the law if they did otherwise. Charities have to apply their property towards their charitable objects.
    I'm not sure.

    I would have thought this was more about their best interests, and their might be a case to be made for handing it back in the long run.
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    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Beautiful people are more likely to be acquitted, overweight more likely.

    Male Jurors More Likely To Find Fat Women Guilty, According to Depressing Study

    https://tinyurl.com/GodBlessTheJurySystem

    I have a barrister friend who is convinced pretty defendants have it easy
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    Unfortunately I think it's very important in politics. Cameron just looked and sounded right in a way that Ed Miliband didn't. Nick Clegg looked right too. And the voice can be important. I think someone on here said that they thought Farage has a good voice.
    I agree, but that says more about the observer than the observed. To a certain extent the content matters more than the deliverer or delivery.

    (I await PB's multitude of lawyers to laugh. AIUI court cases often hinge on what people look and sound like over what they say - a defendant in jeans who speaks in monosyllables and constantly wipes his nose on his sleeve might come across less well than one in a suit who speaks in a posh accent. Though I'm willing to be corrected on this.).
    Ken Dodd got off his tax evasion charge when the evidence was absolutely open and shut, so your second point kind of falls...
    Isn't it the case that the revenue have a tough time getting convictions because jurors tend to sympathise with the accused?
    It may be. But it has to be said it sounds as though Dodd did rather carve up Brian Leveson:

    'One of my problems was my accountant died suddenly.'
    'Did that really matter, Mr Dodd?'
    'Well, it mattered to him.'
    I rather liked Neil Hamilton's response to George Carman.

    "Do you make a habit of refusing to listen to anything you find disagreeable?"

    "No. I'm listening to you."
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Sean_F said:

    Most likely, the majority of voters just weighed up the pros and cons, and voted accordingly.

    I think for some Remainers the idea that we might actually think that leaving the EU is a good idea is harder to believe than us all being dimwits who are swayed by a nasty poster.
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    Oh yes.

    This will stop us discussing Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/978611351806513153
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    I'm just wary of the idea that someone who 'looks' right - by looks or expression - might in some way be more 'correct' than someone who does not.

    I mean, just look at my profile pic! ;)

    You cannot make me
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    edited March 2018
    @Ishmael_Z
    It's just bollocks, it would mean you could sabotage any political campaign by getting someone sufficiently odious to support it.

    You mean like the Labour Party and Jeremy Corbyn?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Who was the PBer that tipped Jeremy Hunt as Theresa May's successor at 100/1?

    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/978690466752487426

    The real Question should be - How good is he at Campaigning ? Cameron was Quite good and Theresa May wasn't ,so how good is he ?
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    Who was the PBer that tipped Jeremy Hunt as Theresa May's successor at 100/1?

    https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/978690466752487426

    The real Question should be - How good is he at Campaigning ? Cameron was Quite good and Theresa May wasn't ,so how good is he ?
    David Cameron rates him.

    That's good enough for me.
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Yes, I saw that earlier today though I didn’t think it would get a good reaction here so didn’t post it. It was very funny seeing Boris getting told off like that.
    Agreed , also think you would be correct about the reaction.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    What channel is England / Italy on?
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    AndyJS said:

    What channel is England / Italy on?

    ITV1
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    MaxPB said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Boris makes sexist comment to Emily Thornberry in house of parliament.Speaker challenges him.

    Calm down, dear.
    She should have replied with "shut your rip you fat useless twonk, you are not talking to one of your amours"
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    Matt needs a knighthood

    image
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    AndyJS said:

    What channel is England / Italy on?

    ITV. Well and trully thumped in the anthems - GSTQ really is an utter dirge.
This discussion has been closed.