Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You don't find the tweet disgusting then?
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You don't find the tweet disgusting then?
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
Several of my soft-left Labour friends are getting REALLY queasy about Corbyn’s anti-semitism. It’s going to need a significant change for them to actively vote Labour.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You don't find the tweet disgusting then?
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
But not this particular tweet
Apologies everyone - bit back at the troll
I find that tweet disgusting. And I find the rampant hypocrisy of pb's Leavers, who were entirely happy to pander to xenophobia when it suited them but who now claim to need sal volatile when it doesn't serve their interests, if anything more disgusting.
Please tell me that this woman is just too stupid to understand that phrase.
You'd hope so, can't say I knew the phrase but after a few people complained about it my mind did jump to concentration camps before I checked. Pretty messed up.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You don't find the tweet disgusting then?
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
But not this particular tweet
Apologies everyone - bit back at the troll
I find that tweet disgusting. And I find the rampant hypocrisy of pb's Leavers, who were entirely happy to pander to xenophobia when it suited them but who now claim to need sal volatile when it doesn't serve their interests, if anything more disgusting.
Gosh, more disgusting than a direct reference to the greatest atrocity of the 20th century. I'm amazed
On Israel, Israel proper ie the state which was created by the UN is a fully functioning democracy with Arab Israeli citizens, representation in the Knesset etc.
The big problem are the lands occupied since 1967, land which should have formed the basis of the Palestinian state which the UN also agreed to form at the same time as Israel but which the Arabs rejected and which the Jordanians seized. (Incidentally, why does no-one ever criticise the Jordanians for not giving that land which the Palestinians were entitled to to them so that they could create their state?) Israel is an occupier, is seizing land for settlemnts, treating Palestinians badly, there is no democracy and it is a situation which shames Israel and is making a permanent peace and two-state solution very very difficult indeed.
It is not now helped by having organisations like Hamas which have no interest in a two-state solution, want to destroy Israel and expel or kill all Jews. Understandable that Israel reacts in the way that it does to a a group with genocidal aims. Understandable too the despair of Palestinians who see the chances of a homeland slipping away, even if they have rather more responsibility for their fate than they would like to admit. But the answer is not to foment hatred of Jews nor hatred of Palestinians, which is what the extremists do (and these are the people Corbyn supports).
I do not know what the answer is but I doubt Britain can play any sort of role, given its history. I also doubt that someone like Corbyn who has never sought to understand Israel’s position or concerns and who has supported a group like Hamas whose charter calls for the elimination of Israel and the killing of all Jews can act as honest broker.
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
Hypocrisy!
In the days of apartheid and anti-apartheid, people used to refuse to eat South African apples and drink SA wine because of the fractions of pennies that would contribute to the SA government. You, on the other hand, claim to spend much of your leisure time in property you own in Hungary, contributing - at a guess - at least £1000s a year in direct and indirect taxes to the Orban regime. Orban is not far off Hitler in the anti-Semitism stakes - definitely way ahead of Mussolini and in a different league from apartheid - and that's before we get to his forthright views on muslims, middle easterners, Africans, asylum seekers and indeed foreigners of all kinds. I am therefore puzzled as to why you have appointed yourself name-caller-in-chief over antisemitism and xenophobia issues. You can either equate people with antisemites for having the audacity to win a referendum against you, or you can continue with your voluntary major sponsorship of the Soros-baiting industry, like a pound shop Unity Mitford, but not both.
You will wish to play the "oooh, an internet stalker obsessed with my private life" card at this stage, but consider this: my sole source for your ownership of Hungarian property is the claims you have made on this website; how else would I know? As an index of the extent of my incuriosity about you, I understand from comments on here that your name is your real one and that you work at an (identified) professional firm in London, but I have never taken the minimal trouble needed to google to see whether that is true, because why would I care?
Your beliefs seem to be predicated on the fundamental principles that A. what is good for Meeks is good absolutely - nothing else explains the mismatch between believing in keeping the UK in the EU, but detaching London from the UK, or moaning about xenophobia but sleeping soundly as wannabe immigrants to Hungary shiver in their shipping containers - and B. anyone who disagrees with you about anything is not just wrong, but also necessarily evil. You have no idea how silly it makes you look. Other people answered a difficult question to the best of their ability by putting a cross in a box; you boast of sponsoring the most racist, anti-semitic, anti-Islamic, foreigner-hating regime in the world. Who's the xenophobe? Who is the hypocrite?
You can pretend if you like that this is merely an ad hoc, tit for tat point. It isn't: I find your attitude of "I'm an Englishman abroad with a UK passport in my pocket, what the natives get up to is no concern of mine" to be morally repulsive (and hilariously UKIPish, by the way). I am not your conscience, though, and you can do what you like; but I do wish this incessant high-pitched whine would cease. It's like trying to get to sleep with a mosquito in the room.
Mr. Sandpit, presumably they believe they can make up the ground quickly, and don't want Honda to do likewise.
If that's the case, the request actually reveals a lot about the state of play now and (potentially) in the immediate future. If you look at qualifying in Oz, the Renault-powered Red Bulls were very similar to the Ferraris (Hamilton was over the hills and far away, though it remains to be seen if that was purely an engine mode or an utterly fantastic lap).
Please tell me that this woman is just too stupid to understand that phrase.
You'd hope so, can't say I knew the phrase but after a few people complained about it my mind did jump to concentration camps before I checked. Pretty messed up.
I assume the implication is that the person who made the picture wants us to think that the DWP/Government are Nazis and make a link between people working for benefits and the concentration camps. On the assumption that our friends on the left are behind this, cannot they see that this drip drip is poisoning people against them?
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You don't find the tweet disgusting then?
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
But not this particular tweet
Apologies everyone - bit back at the troll
I find that tweet disgusting. And I find the rampant hypocrisy of pb's Leavers, who were entirely happy to pander to xenophobia when it suited them but who now claim to need sal volatile when it doesn't serve their interests, if anything more disgusting.
Gosh, more disgusting than a direct reference to the greatest atrocity of the 20th century. I'm amazed
One reference in one tweet is pretty disgusting.
Being willing to pander to xenophobia to change the course of a national election of historic importance, and then claiming to be upset by one tweet, is still more disgusting.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You don't find the tweet disgusting then?
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
But not this particular tweet
Apologies everyone - bit back at the troll
I find that tweet disgusting. And I find the rampant hypocrisy of pb's Leavers, who were entirely happy to pander to xenophobia when it suited them but who now claim to need sal volatile when it doesn't serve their interests, if anything more disgusting.
Gosh, more disgusting than a direct reference to the greatest atrocity of the 20th century. I'm amazed
One reference in one tweet is pretty disgusting.
Being willing to pander to xenophobia to change the course of a national election of historic importance, and then claiming to be upset by one tweet, is still more disgusting.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You don't find the tweet disgusting then?
I find lots of things disgusting. But the hypocrisy of many of pb's posters on this subject is staggering.
But not this particular tweet
Apologies everyone - bit back at the troll
I find that tweet disgusting. And I find the rampant hypocrisy of pb's Leavers, who were entirely happy to pander to xenophobia when it suited them but who now claim to need sal volatile when it doesn't serve their interests, if anything more disgusting.
Gosh, more disgusting than a direct reference to the greatest atrocity of the 20th century. I'm amazed
One reference in one tweet is pretty disgusting.
Being willing to pander to xenophobia to change the course of a national election of historic importance, and then claiming to be upset by one tweet, is still more disgusting.
You know nothing about me that enables you to make that statement.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You are making a mistaken assumption that all the people complaining about anti-semitism within Labour are Leavers. They are not. Some of them (me, SO) have been raising such concerns ever since Corbyn was a candidate for leader, precisely because of what we knew about his back story. You are also wrongly assuming that none of them are concerned by the nastiness of the two posters you have repeatedly highlighted. (I wrote a whole thread header on the topic.)
Finally, it is perfectly legitimate to have concerns about illegal immigration into Europe, specifically from Muslim countries because of the well attested problems there have been with such immigration and concerns about integration and, ironically enough, the reimportation of anti-semitic views. This is a concern which was raised some considerable time ago - long before the referendum - by the EU itself, and which has been repeated more recently by people such as Angela Merkel and some of her ministers.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
Unfortunately, this is the consequence of the Corbyn left's refusal to take anti-Semitism seriously. It gives free rein to people who have been dog-whistling to xenophobes, bigots and racists for years to take the high ground. Thus, not only is Corbyn's failure to confront anti-Semitism utterly immoral, it is also a big political mistake. He is what he has always been: the right's get out of jail free card.
The Arbeit Macht Frei tweet is crude and tasteless, but I'm not sure if it can be described as antisemitic.
Was the Count Dankula brouhaha much discussed on here? Perhaps the newly formed PB Committee on Antisemitic Activities can pass judgment on whether an individual being prosecuted for hate speech because he trained his pug to do a Nazi salute on hearing 'gas the Jews' & then put film of it on Youtube was a vile assault on free speech, or a proportionate response to a wee racist prick.
Thwere are some really, REALLY, silly b@%&*rs about.
Her entire feed is full of fellow travellers. Sick
What's happening now is that the lid is being lifted on the echo chamber on the far left who filled each other's twitter feeds and timelines with at best silly and at worst deeply offensive snarky comments and pictures - things which went largely unchallenged because (1) they were among friends, and friends don't snitch, and (2) they agreed with the themes and inferences anyway.
Please tell me that this woman is just too stupid to understand that phrase.
You'd hope so, can't say I knew the phrase but after a few people complained about it my mind did jump to concentration camps before I checked. Pretty messed up.
I assume the implication is that the person who made the picture wants us to think that the DWP/Government are Nazis and make a link between people working for benefits and the concentration camps. On the assumption that our friends on the left are behind this, cannot they see that this drip drip is poisoning people against them?
I think that is right. Five years ago, when nobody thought about Labour anti-Semitism and that ghastly tory MP was filmed in Nazi uniform in the Alps, I would have interpreted that as the Jews = the many, the people whose side Labour is on, and the few = the evil tory government. An astonishing reversal.
Mr. Divvie, we chatted a little about it and the subsequent Pie video yesterday.
He wanted to annoy his girlfriend by training her dog to do something horrendous (the antithesis of being cute and lovely). The Nazis also punished someone (a circus owner, I believe) who trained animals to do the Nazi salute, although he wasn't taking the piss.
Also, nobody that I've seen is calling for this individual to be imprisoned. Disapproving of something doesn't mean you want the individual in question to be deemed a criminal.
Please tell me that this woman is just too stupid to understand that phrase.
You'd hope so, can't say I knew the phrase but after a few people complained about it my mind did jump to concentration camps before I checked. Pretty messed up.
Whoever mocked that picture up didn't write the phrase in German by accident. I can't see how it could be made without it being a direct reference to the Holocaust.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
Unfortunately, this is the consequence of the Corbyn left's refusal to take anti-Semitism seriously. It gives free rein to people who have been dog-whistling to xenophobes, bigots and racists for years to take the high ground. Thus, not only is Corbyn's failure to confront anti-Semitism utterly immoral, it is also a big political mistake. He is what he has always been: the right's get out of jail free card.
The Corbyn left and UKIP are two cheeks of the same arse in my view.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Mr. Sandpit, presumably they believe they can make up the ground quickly, and don't want Honda to do likewise.
If that's the case, the request actually reveals a lot about the state of play now and (potentially) in the immediate future. If you look at qualifying in Oz, the Renault-powered Red Bulls were very similar to the Ferraris (Hamilton was over the hills and far away, though it remains to be seen if that was purely an engine mode or an utterly fantastic lap).
More likely is that they’re spending a fortune on developing the engine to keep it competitive, and know that the three other engine makers have more resources to keep up that rate of development. I recall that the Mercedes engine factory at Brixworth has something like 500 people working there to build a couple of dozen race engines this year!
Lewis Hamilton is increasingly reminding me of Ayrton Senna with his qualifying laps, he found nearly a second from nowhere on his last run in Q3, and there were a few races last season where he was more than half a second faster than everyone else. Astonishingly talented driver over a single lap.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
I don't know whether this was posted earlier in the week, but it's very thoughtful about why antisemitism is seen so differently to "other forms of racism" on the far left - it plays into a misguided general analysis that capitalism is conspiratorial and inherently exploitative. This is the same analysis that explains far-right antisemitism, but they add in "bog-standard" ethnic racism as well, though this can also be characterised as support for the native working class.
But, Postone suggested, it is only Jews who are suspected of secretly controlling the world. A mural of Mexican migrants or black people counting money on the backs of the oppressed would make no sense to a racist. But the portrayal of Jews at the table could escape Corbyn’s scrutiny because this representation of how power works resonates with the logic of his worldview: his understanding of capitalism as a “rigged system”.
And when the analysis moves to the international level, the same applies again with respect to Israel. It's "a racism that punches upward, rather than down".
However I do think the piece is far too generous to Corbyn. I can't foresee him "leading from the front" on this at all.
Mr. Divvie, we chatted a little about it and the subsequent Pie video yesterday.
He wanted to annoy his girlfriend by training her dog to do something horrendous (the antithesis of being cute and lovely). The Nazis also punished someone (a circus owner, I believe) who trained animals to do the Nazi salute, although he wasn't taking the piss.
Also, nobody that I've seen is calling for this individual to be imprisoned. Disapproving of something doesn't mean you want the individual in question to be deemed a criminal.
I wonder when 'I just filmed myself in a white pointy hood shouting "n***ers are subhuman" to annoy my girlfriend' will be used as a defence?
Kevin Schofield - @PolhomeEditor: Senior Labour sources pointing out that Christine Shawcroft is not standing for re-election to the party's NEC in June. Also making the point that as it's an elected position, Jeremy Corbyn cannot order her removal.
The Arbeit Macht Frei tweet is crude and tasteless, but I'm not sure if it can be described as antisemitic.
Was the Count Dankula brouhaha much discussed on here? Perhaps the newly formed PB Committee on Antisemitic Activities can pass judgment on whether an individual being prosecuted for hate speech because he trained his pug to do a Nazi salute on hearing 'gas the Jews' & then put film of it on Youtube was a vile assault on free speech, or a proportionate response to a wee racist prick.
Given that allegations of antisemitism have been in the news for weeks, all this woman’s done is kept the story running for a little longer. How would anyone think that picture was in any way appropriate?
Please tell me that this woman is just too stupid to understand that phrase.
You'd hope so, can't say I knew the phrase but after a few people complained about it my mind did jump to concentration camps before I checked. Pretty messed up.
I assume the implication is that the person who made the picture wants us to think that the DWP/Government are Nazis and make a link between people working for benefits and the concentration camps. On the assumption that our friends on the left are behind this, cannot they see that this drip drip is poisoning people against them?
Yeah that is my looking for the good in her guess for what she thought she was doing, spectacularly misjudged at best. Quick scan of some of her messages on Twitter makes her seem pretty hardheaded and in this case completely tone deaf.
_____________________________________ It is not now helped by having organisations like Hamas which have no interest in a two-state solution, want to destroy Israel and expel or kill all Jews. Understandable that Israel reacts in the way that it does to a a group with genocidal aims. Understandable too the despair of Palestinians who see the chances of a homeland slipping away, even if they have rather more responsibility for their fate than they would like to admit. ____________________________________
The chance was already pretty much gone before Hamas came in, unless the Israeli's decide they want peace and a functioning Palestinian state then it really doesn't make a blind bit of difference what the Palestinians do, it makes a convenient excuse though. Given that Israel does far more killing and land grabbing than Hamas, despite the much nicer words we got from them I'm not sure it is much of a defence.
The logic of saying we cannot support the Palestinians whilst they are racist, whilst the cause of their racism is largely the occupation and war seems a sort of circular way of supporting Israel. As long as the Israeli's mistreat the Palestinians the Palestinians will hold racist views you have another convenient excuse for the Israelis to keep the war going, which in turn promotes even more racism and so on and so forth.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
Do you in any way accept that those who voted to Leave in the referendum did so for a variety of reasons?
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
Kevin Schofield - @PolhomeEditor: Senior Labour sources pointing out that Christine Shawcroft is not standing for re-election to the party's NEC in June. Also making the point that as it's an elected position, Jeremy Corbyn cannot order her removal.
But he could have put out a strongly worded statement encouraging her to consider her position and asking her to step down for the good of the Party.
But he didn't.
He continues to sit round the NEC table with a woman who excuses anti-semites.
Difficult I know, but can you without using the medium of tweetery explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.
Difficult I know, but can you without using the medium of tweetery explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
Because it is the context of a Labour local government leader tweeting it after Jewish organisations have criticised anti-Semitism in the Labour Party.
Joe Murphy - @JoeMurphyLondon: The UK #Brexit tour that Theresa May is NOT doing today: Fraserburgh to meet the fishermen; Gateshead to tour the passport factory; Armagh, to visit border crossings; Dover, to plan the new lorry parks
Difficult I know, but can you without using the medium of tweetery explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.
This is not unique to the hard left, from a (Obviously deleted) Mail piece:
"The German slogan 'Arbeit Macht Frei' is somewhat tainted by its connection with Nazi concentration camps, but its essential message, 'work sets you free' still has something serious to commend it.
There is dignity to be gained from any job, no matter how menial, and for young people at the start of their careers, there are valuable lessons to be learned from any form of employment, whether that is on the factory floor, on a supermarket till or in the contemporary hard labour camp of a merchant bank or law office"
I don't know whether this was posted earlier in the week, but it's very thoughtful about why antisemitism is seen so differently to "other forms of racism" on the far left - it plays into a misguided general analysis that capitalism is conspiratorial and inherently exploitative. This is the same analysis that explains far-right antisemitism, but they add in "bog-standard" ethnic racism as well, though this can also be characterised as support for the native working class.
But, Postone suggested, it is only Jews who are suspected of secretly controlling the world. A mural of Mexican migrants or black people counting money on the backs of the oppressed would make no sense to a racist. But the portrayal of Jews at the table could escape Corbyn’s scrutiny because this representation of how power works resonates with the logic of his worldview: his understanding of capitalism as a “rigged system”.
And when the analysis moves to the international level, the same applies again with respect to Israel. It's "a racism that punches upward, rather than down".
However I do think the piece is far too generous to Corbyn. I can't foresee him "leading from the front" on this at all.
but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
Can you explain why you think it isn't?
Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?
Difficult I know, but can you without using the medium of tweetery explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
Do you in any way accept that those who voted to Leave in the referendum did so for a variety of reasons?
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
To be clear, my comments are aimed at those who post on PB, a specialist website that is aimed at those who have a particularly strong interest in politics and who in many cases actively participate in it.
The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.
This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.
So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.
Difficult I know, but can you without using the medium of tweetery explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.
If you wanted to be generous to her you'd describe it as extremely insulting. We make references to worse things quite often to over exaggerate but the Holocaust shouldn't be used so lightly.
Difficult I know, but can you without using the medium of tweetery explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.
So it's homophobic, anti Roma, anti Slav and anti disabled as well? Golly, they were really going for it.
but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
Can you explain why you think it isn't?
Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?
Your turn.
You aren’t usually this dim. Do yourself a favour and back away.
From a Labour POV, or at least from mine, I'm relatively happy to stay close to the Conservatives in the polls for the time being.
After several good weeks for Labour in which the Tory vote barely shifted we've had a good couple of weeks for the Tories in which Labours vote has barely shifted. Which is partially why I think the idea of Labour having a new leader and surging ahead 15-20 points in the polls in unrealistic.
If the polls look something like they have done over the past couple of months just before we get into the election campaigning period I'll be fairly optimistic about Labours chances. There won't be the same kind of swings we saw in the last campaign but with a strong campaign, which isn't an unrealistic expectation of Labour, we could advance enough to take it.
A big part of the next election will probably be decided on how many voters each party holds onto from the last election.
I'd rather be close in the polls, too. The idea that your boy might win will be a powerful motivator to moderates and Tories alike
Moderates see a choice between two sets of nutjobs. The Conservatives have spent the last 18 months telling them that they are traitors and saboteurs. Good luck in seeking their votes.
If it was in your power to stop Brexit would you do so?
If I were an MP and there were a vote on abandoning Brexit tomorrow and it was apparent the vote would be tight, I would vote to continue with Brexit. The damage of ignoring the referendum vote at a time when the public had not demonstrably decisively changed its collective mind would be even greater than the damage Brexit is causing. The choice is between alternate disasters, and the disaster of ignoring public opinion is even worse than that of implementing a terrible decision.
Besides, it would be in all likelihood ineffective: Britain’s psychodrama with the EU has some way yet to play out. Britain is in no fit state to continue to play a part in the EU as it goes through its civil war on the subject.
My answer might be different in the future, depending on the circumstances at the time.
Which is a perfectly respectable view.
There are some, however, like Adonis perhaps, who seem determined to stop it by any means. Although emotive, there is a case for arguing that they are seeking to sabotage Brexit.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
Do you in any way accept that those who voted to Leave in the referendum did so for a variety of reasons?
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
To be clear, my comments are aimed at those who post on PB, a specialist website that is aimed at those who have a particularly strong interest in politics and who in many cases actively participate in it.
The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.
This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.
So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.
Even if we take at face value your take on those posters, how on Earth is voting the same way as "xenophobes" more shameful than paying taxes to an autocratic, racist government?
Difficult I know, but can you without using the medium of tweetery explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.
This is not unique to the hard left, from a (Obviously deleted) Mail piece:
"The German slogan 'Arbeit Macht Frei' is somewhat tainted by its connection with Nazi concentration camps, but its essential message, 'work sets you free' still has something serious to commend it.
There is dignity to be gained from any job, no matter how menial, and for young people at the start of their careers, there are valuable lessons to be learned from any form of employment, whether that is on the factory floor, on a supermarket till or in the contemporary hard labour camp of a merchant bank or law office"
Correct.
(Incidentally, the Mail is also missing the point that the Nazi "labour" camps were always going to pick something euphemistic above the gates.)
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
Do you in any way accept that those who voted to Leave in the referendum did so for a variety of reasons?
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
To be clear, my comments are aimed at those who post on PB, a specialist website that is aimed at those who have a particularly strong interest in politics and who in many cases actively participate in it.
The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.
This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.
So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.
There is no point in trying to reason with someone who is so caught up in their own narrative that they don't want to engage.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
Do you in any way accept that those who voted to Leave in the referendum did so for a variety of reasons?
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
To be clear, my comments are aimed at those who post on PB, a specialist website that is aimed at those who have a particularly strong interest in politics and who in many cases actively participate in it.
The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.
This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.
So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.
There is no point in trying to reason with someone who is so caught up in their own narrative that they don't want to engage.
You asked me for an explanation of my position and I have given you one in considerable detail. It appears that you have no response to it.
but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
Can you explain why you think it isn't?
Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?
Your turn.
You aren’t usually this dim. Do yourself a favour and back away.
You're a great one for giving unsolicited advice, ain't you? One hopes your generosity stretches to other areas of your life, though the available evidence isn't encouraging.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
Trying to link it to the leave campaign is not persuasive. Corbyn was loving murals and attending pro-Iran events, marching with Stalin banners and the like long before that. Not to mention his friends from Hamas.
Mr. P, some questions to MPs (and PMs) are bloody stupid.
Mr. Divvie, a while ago I saw an edition of Live at the Apollo, with Reginald D. Hunter. Generally, I rather like him. However, it was shortly after Josef Fritzl[sp] hit the news (he was an Austrian who kept his daughter for decades in a secret basement, repeatedly raping her and fathering a child upon her). Hunter made some jokes about that, respecting Fritzl's ability to make a basement and keep it hidden for so long.
I found the jokes to be in very poor taste. Rape jokes in general are not something I like. But disapproving of comedy is not just cause to try and criminalise comedians. There is an off-switch. I can change the channel. Nobody kidnaps you and forces you to watch a comedy routine you dislike.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
Do you in any way accept that those who voted to Leave in the referendum did so for a variety of reasons?
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
To be clear, my comments are aimed at those who post on PB, a specialist website that is aimed at those who have a particularly strong interest in politics and who in many cases actively participate in it.
The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.
This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.
So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.
Do you think any voter who might have been persuaded by a racist campaign were ever in any danger of not voting for Leave?
Watching the Steve Smith press conference was painful.
I hope they reduce his ban to say six months.
Crying when caught looks it to me. As an ex colleague said to me once, stereotypes are there for a reason, and Steve Smith/David Warner have certainly done their bit to reinforce them.
"The slogan is known for appearing on the entrance of Auschwitz and other Nazi concentration camps." Anybody with an interest in politics will have known that.
Another morning of all the pbers who were willing to frighten people with visions of hordes of Muslims invading Britain if it stayed in the EU pretending to be upset about anti-Semitism.
You really are making yourself look an idiot.
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Leavers have been rolling around in the gutter. They cannot now mount a high horse.
Do you in any way accept that those who voted to Leave in the referendum did so for a variety of reasons?
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
To be clear, my comments are aimed at those who post on PB, a specialist website that is aimed at those who have a particularly strong interest in politics and who in many cases actively participate in it.
The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.
This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.
So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.
Do you think any voter who might have been persuaded by a racist campaign were ever in any danger of not voting for Leave?
Odd phrasing, but leaving that to one side, the short answer is yes. Many of them may well not have voted and many of them might well have been wholly uninterested in the abstract sovereignty that so exercises those at the top of the Leave campaigns. But some of these people might well have been scared enough or angry enough to vote for Leave when they otherwise wouldn't have done.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.
Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
Trying to link it to the leave campaign is not persuasive. Corbyn was loving murals and attending pro-Iran events, marching with Stalin banners and the like long before that. Not to mention his friends from Hamas.
Mr. P, some questions to MPs (and PMs) are bloody stupid.
Mr. Divvie, a while ago I saw an edition of Live at the Apollo, with Reginald D. Hunter. Generally, I rather like him. However, it was shortly after Josef Fritzl[sp] hit the news (he was an Austrian who kept his daughter for decades in a secret basement, repeatedly raping her and fathering a child upon her). Hunter made some jokes about that, respecting Fritzl's ability to make a basement and keep it hidden for so long.
I found the jokes to be in very poor taste. Rape jokes in general are not something I like. But disapproving of comedy is not just cause to try and criminalise comedians. There is an off-switch. I can change the channel. Nobody kidnaps you and forces you to watch a comedy routine you dislike.
It's a cumulative thing, little by little the decency window moved.
Do you think Gove and Boris will be able to criticise Corbyn for demonising a religion after campaigning with posters like this.
You asked me for an explanation of my position and I have given you one in considerable detail. It appears that you have no response to it.
Actually I asked you a series of questions - and you chose to not to answer them.
I have plenty of responses to you - but none that would actually do any good in terms of furthering the conversation.
You have an absolute fixed view on those two posters. Nothing anyone has said to you has stopped you from repeating your lines about xenophobia over and over and over again.
Nothing I or anyone else can do or say can change your position. I don't think that is because we are not persuasive enough or don't have strong enough arguments. You appear unwilling to listen - so what is the point?
I have bitten my cyber tongue many times over the past months watching your contributions get more and more shrill. Recently I gave in and started responding - which was a mistake as no good has (or will) come from trying to engage with you on here. I shall not bother you further. I wish you would decide to stop bothering others with your endless repetition of a position we all know you hold.
Watching the Steve Smith press conference was painful.
I hope they reduce his ban to say six months.
Why - he has trashed his, his team mates, and his Country's reputation forever to be called cheaters.
It is a personal crisis for one of the World's best batsman but he is lucky he was only banned for one year
Quite. He’s a grown man, with a duty to take responsibility for his actions. Furthermore he must have know than what Bancroft was doing was wrong. He also picked on the least experienced member of the team to be the patsy.
I strongly suspect there’s more to come out; as Mr Urqhuat has pointed out upthread at least some of the other bowlers must have known something was happening to the ball.
but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?
Can you explain why you think it isn't?
Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?
Your turn.
In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
Trying to link it to the leave campaign is not persuasive. Corbyn was loving murals and attending pro-Iran events, marching with Stalin banners and the like long before that. Not to mention his friends from Hamas.
Mr. P, some questions to MPs (and PMs) are bloody stupid.
Mr. Divvie, a while ago I saw an edition of Live at the Apollo, with Reginald D. Hunter. Generally, I rather like him. However, it was shortly after Josef Fritzl[sp] hit the news (he was an Austrian who kept his daughter for decades in a secret basement, repeatedly raping her and fathering a child upon her). Hunter made some jokes about that, respecting Fritzl's ability to make a basement and keep it hidden for so long.
I found the jokes to be in very poor taste. Rape jokes in general are not something I like. But disapproving of comedy is not just cause to try and criminalise comedians. There is an off-switch. I can change the channel. Nobody kidnaps you and forces you to watch a comedy routine you dislike.
I always laugh at those who complain about comedians, especially those who are well known for edgy routines and engaging with the audience. The idea that someone pays their money to see Frankie Boyle or Jimmy Carr on stage only to come out offended is ridiculous. TV is slightly different, but again there’s always an off button and offensive material is usually flagged up in advance.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.
Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
Doesn't suit the Shadow Chancellor's line, either.
It's the Board of Deputies of British Jews making the running here. You can suggest all you like that the Tories and the press secretly hate the jews as much as the average Labour party member does, but it seems probable to me that the BoD get genuinely quite tetchy about antisemitism.
Mr. Jezziah, I don't recall any Jewish marches to express concern about the Labour Party and anti-Semitism when Miliband was leader. Or Brown. Or Blair.
Mr. Eagles, people who raise genuine concerns about migration and integration might be less worried if authorities didn't turn a blind eye to rape gangs because they were Pakistani Muslims and the authorities didn't want to appear 'culturally insensitive'.
The anti-Jewish stuff has nothing to do with migration. Or, indeed, integration. It's about dressing up anti-Semitism in the clothing of criticising Israel, something the far left is rather fond of. Those with great influence under Corbyn's leadership are not helpful in this regard, and trying to link it to the referendum side you opposed (to which there is no link) rather than rightly condemning the softness of Corbyn on the issue is really rather odd.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.
Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
BBC and Sky are not letting up on Corbyn or his leadership over his anti semitic issues
And it is all about his own MPs including David Lammy's deselection threat.
However, I understand the Government has tabled a debate on anti semitic issues in the HOC for 17th April.
Mr. Sandpit, aye, Boyle can be a ****. But he's known to be a ****. And he doesn't run round your house, put a gun to your head, and make you buy a ticket to his next show.
For that matter, the Bible and Quran contain homophobic verses. But you don't have to read them.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.
Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
Yet people are *still, today* posting photoshopped images comparing JobCentre to Auschtwitz, don’t see anything wrong with it and don’t have action taken against them by the party.
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
Trying to link it to the leave campaign is not persuasive. Corbyn was loving murals and attending pro-Iran events, marching with Stalin banners and the like long before that. Not to mention his friends from Hamas.
Mr. P, some questions to MPs (and PMs) are bloody stupid.
Mr. Divvie, a while ago I saw an edition of Live at the Apollo, with Reginald D. Hunter. Generally, I rather like him. However, it was shortly after Josef Fritzl[sp] hit the news (he was an Austrian who kept his daughter for decades in a secret basement, repeatedly raping her and fathering a child upon her). Hunter made some jokes about that, respecting Fritzl's ability to make a basement and keep it hidden for so long.
I found the jokes to be in very poor taste. Rape jokes in general are not something I like. But disapproving of comedy is not just cause to try and criminalise comedians. There is an off-switch. I can change the channel. Nobody kidnaps you and forces you to watch a comedy routine you dislike.
It's a cumulative thing, little by little the decency window moved.
Do you think Gove and Boris will be able to criticise Corbyn for demonising a religion after campaigning with posters like this.
The focus here is that Syria and Iraq are current warzones, not that they are Muslim. Otherwise you could point out the EU already borders Muslim Albania.
You asked me for an explanation of my position and I have given you one in considerable detail. It appears that you have no response to it.
Actually I asked you a series of questions - and you chose to not to answer them.
I have plenty of responses to you - but none that would actually do any good in terms of furthering the conversation.
You have an absolute fixed view on those two posters. Nothing anyone has said to you has stopped you from repeating your lines about xenophobia over and over and over again.
Nothing I or anyone else can do or say can change your position. I don't think that is because we are not persuasive enough or don't have strong enough arguments. You appear unwilling to listen - so what is the point?
I have bitten my cyber tongue many times over the past months watching your contributions get more and more shrill. Recently I gave in and started responding - which was a mistake as no good has (or will) come from trying to engage with you on here. I shall not bother you further. I wish you would decide to stop bothering others with your endless repetition of a position we all know you hold.
I realise that those who have pandered to xenophobia would rather not be reminded of that fact now that the work is done. Unfortunately, the damage is enduring and will continue to get worse until those who perpetrated it address what they have done.
It is particularly germane in a week where anti-Semitism elsewhere in politics is under discussion. Leavers have no authority to raise concerns about the matter.
It is one of the many ways in which Brexit is damaging the fabric of British politics.
Do you think any voter who might have been persuaded by a racist campaign were ever in any danger of not voting for Leave?
Odd phrasing, but leaving that to one side, the short answer is yes. Many of them may well not have voted and many of them might well have been wholly uninterested in the abstract sovereignty that so exercises those at the top of the Leave campaigns. But some of these people might well have been scared enough or angry enough to vote for Leave when they otherwise wouldn't have done.
Here's how it goes down on PB:
Before the 2015 GE we're told that the Tories need a 10pp to win a majority. When that turns out to be wrong, we're told that the Tories cheated.
Before the EU referendum, we're told that Leave can't win without reaching out beyond its base of Ukip voters. When Leave wins, we're told that they only won because they were racist (or cheated).
Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).
Trying to link it to the leave campaign is not persuasive. Corbyn was loving murals and attending pro-Iran events, marching with Stalin banners and the like long before that. Not to mention his friends from Hamas.
Mr. P, some questions to MPs (and PMs) are bloody stupid.
Mr. Divvie, a while ago I saw an edition of Live at the Apollo, with Reginald D. Hunter. Generally, I rather like him. However, it was shortly after Josef Fritzl[sp] hit the news (he was an Austrian who kept his daughter for decades in a secret basement, repeatedly raping her and fathering a child upon her). Hunter made some jokes about that, respecting Fritzl's ability to make a basement and keep it hidden for so long.
I found the jokes to be in very poor taste. Rape jokes in general are not something I like. But disapproving of comedy is not just cause to try and criminalise comedians. There is an off-switch. I can change the channel. Nobody kidnaps you and forces you to watch a comedy routine you dislike.
It's a cumulative thing, little by little the decency window moved.
Do you think Gove and Boris will be able to criticise Corbyn for demonising a religion after campaigning with posters like this.
The focus here is that Syria and Iraq are current warzones, not that they are Muslim. Otherwise you could point out the EU already borders Muslim Albania.
So why not focus on warzones like say Ukraine?
Perhaps you can direct me to Vote Leave's posters about Ukraine?
Comments
This is truly disgusting if it's as it's reported.
Sorry Shami - If someone goes it will be you
Apologies everyone - bit back at the troll
Or maybe my chums are just snowflakes?
The big problem are the lands occupied since 1967, land which should have formed the basis of the Palestinian state which the UN also agreed to form at the same time as Israel but which the Arabs rejected and which the Jordanians seized. (Incidentally, why does no-one ever criticise the Jordanians for not giving that land which the Palestinians were entitled to to them so that they could create their state?) Israel is an occupier, is seizing land for settlemnts, treating Palestinians badly, there is no democracy and it is a situation which shames Israel and is making a permanent peace and two-state solution very very difficult indeed.
It is not now helped by having organisations like Hamas which have no interest in a two-state solution, want to destroy Israel and expel or kill all Jews. Understandable that Israel reacts in the way that it does to a a group with genocidal aims. Understandable too the despair of Palestinians who see the chances of a homeland slipping away, even if they have rather more responsibility for their fate than they would like to admit. But the answer is not to foment hatred of Jews nor hatred of Palestinians, which is what the extremists do (and these are the people Corbyn supports).
I do not know what the answer is but I doubt Britain can play any sort of role, given its history. I also doubt that someone like Corbyn who has never sought to understand Israel’s position or concerns and who has supported a group like Hamas whose charter calls for the elimination of Israel and the killing of all Jews can act as honest broker.
In the days of apartheid and anti-apartheid, people used to refuse to eat South African apples and drink SA wine because of the fractions of pennies that would contribute to the SA government. You, on the other hand, claim to spend much of your leisure time in property you own in Hungary, contributing - at a guess - at least £1000s a year in direct and indirect taxes to the Orban regime. Orban is not far off Hitler in the anti-Semitism stakes - definitely way ahead of Mussolini and in a different league from apartheid - and that's before we get to his forthright views on muslims, middle easterners, Africans, asylum seekers and indeed foreigners of all kinds. I am therefore puzzled as to why you have appointed yourself name-caller-in-chief over antisemitism and xenophobia issues. You can either equate people with antisemites for having the audacity to win a referendum against you, or you can continue with your voluntary major sponsorship of the Soros-baiting industry, like a pound shop Unity Mitford, but not both.
You will wish to play the "oooh, an internet stalker obsessed with my private life" card at this stage, but consider this: my sole source for your ownership of Hungarian property is the claims you have made on this website; how else would I know? As an index of the extent of my incuriosity about you, I understand from comments on here that your name is your real one and that you work at an (identified) professional firm in London, but I have never taken the minimal trouble needed to google to see whether that is true, because why would I care?
Your beliefs seem to be predicated on the fundamental principles that A. what is good for Meeks is good absolutely - nothing else explains the mismatch between believing in keeping the UK in the EU, but detaching London from the UK, or moaning about xenophobia but sleeping soundly as wannabe immigrants to Hungary shiver in their shipping containers - and B. anyone who disagrees with you about anything is not just wrong, but also necessarily evil. You have no idea how silly it makes you look. Other people answered a difficult question to the best of their ability by putting a cross in a box; you boast of sponsoring the most racist, anti-semitic, anti-Islamic, foreigner-hating regime in the world. Who's the xenophobe? Who is the hypocrite?
You can pretend if you like that this is merely an ad hoc, tit for tat point. It isn't: I find your attitude of "I'm an Englishman abroad with a UK passport in my pocket, what the natives get up to is no concern of mine" to be morally repulsive (and hilariously UKIPish, by the way). I am not your conscience, though, and you can do what you like; but I do wish this incessant high-pitched whine would cease. It's like trying to get to sleep with a mosquito in the room.
If that's the case, the request actually reveals a lot about the state of play now and (potentially) in the immediate future. If you look at qualifying in Oz, the Renault-powered Red Bulls were very similar to the Ferraris (Hamilton was over the hills and far away, though it remains to be seen if that was purely an engine mode or an utterly fantastic lap).
Being willing to pander to xenophobia to change the course of a national election of historic importance, and then claiming to be upset by one tweet, is still more disgusting.
"Conversation" over
Finally, it is perfectly legitimate to have concerns about illegal immigration into Europe, specifically from Muslim countries because of the well attested problems there have been with such immigration and concerns about integration and, ironically enough, the reimportation of anti-semitic views. This is a concern which was raised some considerable time ago - long before the referendum - by the EU itself, and which has been repeated more recently by people such as Angela Merkel and some of her ministers.
Was the Count Dankula brouhaha much discussed on here? Perhaps the newly formed PB Committee on Antisemitic Activities can pass judgment on whether an individual being prosecuted for hate speech because he trained his pug to do a Nazi salute on hearing 'gas the Jews' & then put film of it on Youtube was a vile assault on free speech, or a proportionate response to a wee racist prick.
He wanted to annoy his girlfriend by training her dog to do something horrendous (the antithesis of being cute and lovely). The Nazis also punished someone (a circus owner, I believe) who trained animals to do the Nazi salute, although he wasn't taking the piss.
Also, nobody that I've seen is calling for this individual to be imprisoned. Disapproving of something doesn't mean you want the individual in question to be deemed a criminal.
@Baddiel: *some gates* https://twitter.com/s_walker86/status/979285771759824896
https://twitter.com/robwattsf1/status/979293130599161861
Can I suggest you take a short break to compose yourself.
Lewis Hamilton is increasingly reminding me of Ayrton Senna with his qualifying laps, he found nearly a second from nowhere on his last run in Q3, and there were a few races last season where he was more than half a second faster than everyone else. Astonishingly talented driver over a single lap.
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/979291204528607232
But, Postone suggested, it is only Jews who are suspected of secretly controlling the world. A mural of Mexican migrants or black people counting money on the backs of the oppressed would make no sense to a racist. But the portrayal of Jews at the table could escape Corbyn’s scrutiny because this representation of how power works resonates with the logic of his worldview: his understanding of capitalism as a “rigged system”.
And when the analysis moves to the international level, the same applies again with respect to Israel. It's "a racism that punches upward, rather than down".
However I do think the piece is far too generous to Corbyn. I can't foresee him "leading from the front" on this at all.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/03/combat-left-anti-semitism-corbynism-must-change-way-it-sees-world
_____________________________________
It is not now helped by having organisations like Hamas which have no interest in a two-state solution, want to destroy Israel and expel or kill all Jews. Understandable that Israel reacts in the way that it does to a a group with genocidal aims. Understandable too the despair of Palestinians who see the chances of a homeland slipping away, even if they have rather more responsibility for their fate than they would like to admit.
____________________________________
The chance was already pretty much gone before Hamas came in, unless the Israeli's decide they want peace and a functioning Palestinian state then it really doesn't make a blind bit of difference what the Palestinians do, it makes a convenient excuse though. Given that Israel does far more killing and land grabbing than Hamas, despite the much nicer words we got from them I'm not sure it is much of a defence.
The logic of saying we cannot support the Palestinians whilst they are racist, whilst the cause of their racism is largely the occupation and war seems a sort of circular way of supporting Israel. As long as the Israeli's mistreat the Palestinians the Palestinians will hold racist views you have another convenient excuse for the Israelis to keep the war going, which in turn promotes even more racism and so on and so forth.
Do you in any way accept that at least some of those reasons were (and indeed still are) legitimate?
Do you in any way accept that voting Leave in the referendum does not automatically mean that those voters actually liked or endorsed everything that was done in the name of the various Leave campaigns?
If not, why not. If so, please stop lumping all Leave voters into a group that you continue to harp on about ad nauseam,
But he didn't.
He continues to sit round the NEC table with a woman who excuses anti-semites.
I hope they reduce his ban to say six months.
This is what some of us have been worried about for a while now
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03/28/expose-hard-left-anti-zionists-anti-semites-really/
"The German slogan 'Arbeit Macht Frei' is somewhat tainted by its connection with Nazi concentration camps, but its essential message, 'work sets you free' still has something serious to commend it.
There is dignity to be gained from any job, no matter how menial, and for young people at the start of their careers, there are valuable lessons to be learned from any form of employment, whether that is on the factory floor, on a supermarket till or in the contemporary hard labour camp of a merchant bank or law office"
Your turn.
The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.
This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.
So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.
We did warn you that a virulent anti Muslim/immigration campaign would be the thin end of the wedge.
Why do you think Farage is more worried about the Jewish lobby than Russian interference in America?
There are some, however, like Adonis perhaps, who seem determined to stop it by any means. Although emotive, there is a case for arguing that they are seeking to sabotage Brexit.
It is a personal crisis for one of the World's best batsman but he is lucky he was only banned for one year
(Incidentally, the Mail is also missing the point that the Nazi "labour" camps were always going to pick something euphemistic above the gates.)
" a very powerful special interest group"
Who could they mean?
Trying to link it to the leave campaign is not persuasive. Corbyn was loving murals and attending pro-Iran events, marching with Stalin banners and the like long before that. Not to mention his friends from Hamas.
Mr. P, some questions to MPs (and PMs) are bloody stupid.
Mr. Divvie, a while ago I saw an edition of Live at the Apollo, with Reginald D. Hunter. Generally, I rather like him. However, it was shortly after Josef Fritzl[sp] hit the news (he was an Austrian who kept his daughter for decades in a secret basement, repeatedly raping her and fathering a child upon her). Hunter made some jokes about that, respecting Fritzl's ability to make a basement and keep it hidden for so long.
I found the jokes to be in very poor taste. Rape jokes in general are not something I like. But disapproving of comedy is not just cause to try and criminalise comedians. There is an off-switch. I can change the channel. Nobody kidnaps you and forces you to watch a comedy routine you dislike.
https://order-order.com/2018/03/29/guardian-app-harvests-your-and-your-friends-facebook-data/
As an ex colleague said to me once, stereotypes are there for a reason, and Steve Smith/David Warner have certainly done their bit to reinforce them.
Anybody with an interest in politics will have known that.
You accept democracy even if you don't agree with the decision. That is reasonable.
You like to tar all leavers with the same brush which is less reasonable, but I can't say I'm offended. A little bit of stereotyping is part of life.
And taking offence at such a thing would make me a snowflake. Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah!
Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
Do you think Gove and Boris will be able to criticise Corbyn for demonising a religion after campaigning with posters like this.
I have plenty of responses to you - but none that would actually do any good in terms of furthering the conversation.
You have an absolute fixed view on those two posters. Nothing anyone has said to you has stopped you from repeating your lines about xenophobia over and over and over again.
Nothing I or anyone else can do or say can change your position. I don't think that is because we are not persuasive enough or don't have strong enough arguments. You appear unwilling to listen - so what is the point?
I have bitten my cyber tongue many times over the past months watching your contributions get more and more shrill. Recently I gave in and started responding - which was a mistake as no good has (or will) come from trying to engage with you on here. I shall not bother you further. I wish you would decide to stop bothering others with your endless repetition of a position we all know you hold.
I strongly suspect there’s more to come out; as Mr Urqhuat has pointed out upthread at least some of the other bowlers must have known something was happening to the ball.
It's the Board of Deputies of British Jews making the running here. You can suggest all you like that the Tories and the press secretly hate the jews as much as the average Labour party member does, but it seems probable to me that the BoD get genuinely quite tetchy about antisemitism.
Mr. Eagles, people who raise genuine concerns about migration and integration might be less worried if authorities didn't turn a blind eye to rape gangs because they were Pakistani Muslims and the authorities didn't want to appear 'culturally insensitive'.
The anti-Jewish stuff has nothing to do with migration. Or, indeed, integration. It's about dressing up anti-Semitism in the clothing of criticising Israel, something the far left is rather fond of. Those with great influence under Corbyn's leadership are not helpful in this regard, and trying to link it to the referendum side you opposed (to which there is no link) rather than rightly condemning the softness of Corbyn on the issue is really rather odd.
And it is all about his own MPs including David Lammy's deselection threat.
However, I understand the Government has tabled a debate on anti semitic issues in the HOC for 17th April.
For that matter, the Bible and Quran contain homophobic verses. But you don't have to read them.
It is particularly germane in a week where anti-Semitism elsewhere in politics is under discussion. Leavers have no authority to raise concerns about the matter.
It is one of the many ways in which Brexit is damaging the fabric of British politics.
Before the 2015 GE we're told that the Tories need a 10pp to win a majority. When that turns out to be wrong, we're told that the Tories cheated.
Before the EU referendum, we're told that Leave can't win without reaching out beyond its base of Ukip voters. When Leave wins, we're told that they only won because they were racist (or cheated).
Perhaps you can direct me to Vote Leave's posters about Ukraine?