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    TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,708
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    It does appear that Theresa has turned the corner on election disaster.

    She's planning another walking holiday in Wales this Easter.
    LOL! No new election but I think we can say Theresa is there until NYD 2021 now.

    She won't be allowed to fight another election though so I think 2021 is when she "departs" - Gives her five years as PM which isn't too shabby given it looked like she might be one of the shortest ever sitting PM's in 2017....
    It's also (quite bizarrely) going to be one of the longest tenures (certainly the longest tenure post 1945) of a PM who has never won* an election. Usually PMs who don't win elections only last a few year (Home - 1, Brown and Callaghan - 3).

    *By won I mean gained an overall majority.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,046
    edited March 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    Edit: I have changed this to a link to take account of the many maiden aunts that apparently infest PB.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
  • Options

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Elliot said:

    Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).

    Trying to link it to the leave campaign is not persuasive. Corbyn was loving murals and attending pro-Iran events, marching with Stalin banners and the like long before that. Not to mention his friends from Hamas.

    Mr. P, some questions to MPs (and PMs) are bloody stupid.

    Mr. Divvie, a while ago I saw an edition of Live at the Apollo, with Reginald D. Hunter. Generally, I rather like him. However, it was shortly after Josef Fritzl[sp] hit the news (he was an Austrian who kept his daughter for decades in a secret basement, repeatedly raping her and fathering a child upon her). Hunter made some jokes about that, respecting Fritzl's ability to make a basement and keep it hidden for so long.

    I found the jokes to be in very poor taste. Rape jokes in general are not something I like. But disapproving of comedy is not just cause to try and criminalise comedians. There is an off-switch. I can change the channel. Nobody kidnaps you and forces you to watch a comedy routine you dislike.

    It's a cumulative thing, little by little the decency window moved.

    Do you think Gove and Boris will be able to criticise Corbyn for demonising a religion after campaigning with posters like this.

    image
    The focus here is that Syria and Iraq are current warzones, not that they are Muslim. Otherwise you could point out the EU already borders Muslim Albania.
    So why not focus on warzones like say Ukraine?

    Perhaps you can direct me to Vote Leave's posters about Ukraine?
    Because the war in Ukraine is a small one located in the south east corner, far from Romania's borders. The wars in Syria and Iraq are much larger and were happening on Turkey's border.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,980
    edited March 2018
    Mr. Eagles, in our current strange world of politics, if Trump actually presided over the nuclear disarmament of North Korea and/or a significant improvement in North-South relations it would be bloody weird.

    Edited extra bit: ahem, meant to start 'even in our current...'
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,832



    You asked me for an explanation of my position and I have given you one in considerable detail. It appears that you have no response to it.

    Actually I asked you a series of questions - and you chose to not to answer them.

    I have plenty of responses to you - but none that would actually do any good in terms of furthering the conversation.

    You have an absolute fixed view on those two posters. Nothing anyone has said to you has stopped you from repeating your lines about xenophobia over and over and over again.

    Nothing I or anyone else can do or say can change your position. I don't think that is because we are not persuasive enough or don't have strong enough arguments. You appear unwilling to listen - so what is the point?

    I have bitten my cyber tongue many times over the past months watching your contributions get more and more shrill. Recently I gave in and started responding - which was a mistake as no good has (or will) come from trying to engage with you on here. I shall not bother you further. I wish you would decide to stop bothering others with your endless repetition of a position we all know you hold.
    I realise that those who have pandered to xenophobia would rather not be reminded of that fact now that the work is done. Unfortunately, the damage is enduring and will continue to get worse until those who perpetrated it address what they have done.

    It is particularly germane in a week where anti-Semitism elsewhere in politics is under discussion. Leavers have no authority to raise concerns about the matter.

    It is one of the many ways in which Brexit is damaging the fabric of British politics.
    It's Jewish organisations and Labour Party members who are making the running on this issue, not Leavers.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,884

    Mr. Sandpit, aye, Boyle can be a ****. But he's known to be a ****. And he doesn't run round your house, put a gun to your head, and make you buy a ticket to his next show.

    For that matter, the Bible and Quran contain homophobic verses. But you don't have to read them.

    The outtake reel from Mock The Week is one of the funniest things I’ve ever watched. They used to record about three times as much material as they needed, because they knew they’d have to drop so much of it for TV. A great programme to attend the recording, like with HIGNFY as you get all the stuff they could never broadcast. There’s a good reason that half a dozen comics on a panel show is such a popular format, it’s cheap and quick to make, and the biggest problem is editing it all down - which is a nice problem to have for the producers.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    Who ever thought you would see an Aussie cricket captain cry in public? They are supposed to be hard as nails.

    https://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2018/03/29/smith-tearful-as-he-takes-full-responsibility-for-ball-tamperi/

    Hard not to feel some sympathy for Steve Smith who clearly knows he made a big error which has hit him hard but I think Don Bradman would be turning in his grave

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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).

    The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.

    Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
    Doesn't suit the Shadow Chancellor's line, either.

    It's the Board of Deputies of British Jews making the running here. You can suggest all you like that the Tories and the press secretly hate the jews as much as the average Labour party member does, but it seems probable to me that the BoD get genuinely quite tetchy about antisemitism.
    And that doesn't suit Jewish voice's line, who, can also get a bit tetchy about anti-semitism. You can suggest all you like that the media who have gone after Corbyn in lots of different ways would for some inexplicable reason not choose to press on this subject if they thought they were having some luck but considering everything else they pushed it isn't exactly a stretch.

    __________________________
    Mr. Jezziah, I don't recall any Jewish marches to express concern about the Labour Party and anti-Semitism when Miliband was leader. Or Brown. Or Blair.
    _________________________

    I don't recall the media making a big a splash about issues as they do under Corbyn even ones that actually happened before Corbyn make a bigger splash.

    -----------------------
    The anti-Jewish stuff has nothing to do with migration. Or, indeed, integration. It's about dressing up anti-Semitism in the clothing of criticising Israel, something the far left is rather fond of. Those with great influence under Corbyn's leadership are not helpful in this regard, and trying to link it to the referendum side you opposed (to which there is no link) rather than rightly condemning the softness of Corbyn on the issue is really rather odd.
    -----------------------

    Strange how there seem to be more of them in the Conservatives then... maybe we need to learn the Leave votes dog whistling tactics a bit better as you guys on the right seem to be dominating in that regard.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sean_F said:



    You asked me for an explanation of my position and I have given you one in considerable detail. It appears that you have no response to it.

    Actually I asked you a series of questions - and you chose to not to answer them.

    I have plenty of responses to you - but none that would actually do any good in terms of furthering the conversation.

    You have an absolute fixed view on those two posters. Nothing anyone has said to you has stopped you from repeating your lines about xenophobia over and over and over again.

    Nothing I or anyone else can do or say can change your position. I don't think that is because we are not persuasive enough or don't have strong enough arguments. You appear unwilling to listen - so what is the point?

    I have bitten my cyber tongue many times over the past months watching your contributions get more and more shrill. Recently I gave in and started responding - which was a mistake as no good has (or will) come from trying to engage with you on here. I shall not bother you further. I wish you would decide to stop bothering others with your endless repetition of a position we all know you hold.
    I realise that those who have pandered to xenophobia would rather not be reminded of that fact now that the work is done. Unfortunately, the damage is enduring and will continue to get worse until those who perpetrated it address what they have done.

    It is particularly germane in a week where anti-Semitism elsewhere in politics is under discussion. Leavers have no authority to raise concerns about the matter.

    It is one of the many ways in which Brexit is damaging the fabric of British politics.
    It's Jewish organisations and Labour Party members who are making the running on this issue, not Leavers.
    Honestly Meeks has lost the plot.

    It seems beyond comprehension to him that a leaver might actually, you know, oppose racism.
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    DanielDaniel Posts: 160
    Trump going to get that Nobel Peace Prize
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,986

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).

    The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.

    Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
    Doesn't suit the Shadow Chancellor's line, either.

    It's the Board of Deputies of British Jews making the running here. You can suggest all you like that the Tories and the press secretly hate the jews as much as the average Labour party member does, but it seems probable to me that the BoD get genuinely quite tetchy about antisemitism.
    And that doesn't suit Jewish voice's line, who, can also get a bit tetchy about anti-semitism. You can suggest all you like that the media who have gone after Corbyn in lots of different ways would for some inexplicable reason not choose to press on this subject if they thought they were having some luck but considering everything else they pushed it isn't exactly a stretch.

    __________________________
    Mr. Jezziah, I don't recall any Jewish marches to express concern about the Labour Party and anti-Semitism when Miliband was leader. Or Brown. Or Blair.
    _________________________

    I don't recall the media making a big a splash about issues as they do under Corbyn even ones that actually happened before Corbyn make a bigger splash.

    -----------------------
    The anti-Jewish stuff has nothing to do with migration. Or, indeed, integration. It's about dressing up anti-Semitism in the clothing of criticising Israel, something the far left is rather fond of. Those with great influence under Corbyn's leadership are not helpful in this regard, and trying to link it to the referendum side you opposed (to which there is no link) rather than rightly condemning the softness of Corbyn on the issue is really rather odd.
    -----------------------

    Strange how there seem to be more of them in the Conservatives then... maybe we need to learn the Leave votes dog whistling tactics a bit better as you guys on the right seem to be dominating in that regard.
    Can you please start using the quotes button? You make some interesting points, but you're making it harder than necessary to follow them...
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,884
    Bloody hell, well done Donald Trump. I guess sometimes there’s an advantage to having an unpredictable idiot in charge to call the bluff of another unpredictable idiot.
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    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:



    You asked me for an explanation of my position and I have given you one in considerable detail. It appears that you have no response to it.

    Actually I asked you a series of questions - and you chose to not to answer them.

    I have plenty of responses to you - but none that would actually do any good in terms of furthering the conversation.

    You have an absolute fixed view on those two posters. Nothing anyone has said to you has stopped you from repeating your lines about xenophobia over and over and over again.

    Nothing I or anyone else can do or say can change your position. I don't think that is because we are not persuasive enough or don't have strong enough arguments. You appear unwilling to listen - so what is the point?

    I have bitten my cyber tongue many times over the past months watching your contributions get more and more shrill. Recently I gave in and started responding - which was a mistake as no good has (or will) come from trying to engage with you on here. I shall not bother you further. I wish you would decide to stop bothering others with your endless repetition of a position we all know you hold.
    I realise that those who have pandered to xenophobia would rather not be reminded of that fact now that the work is done. Unfortunately, the damage is enduring and will continue to get worse until those who perpetrated it address what they have done.

    It is particularly germane in a week where anti-Semitism elsewhere in politics is under discussion. Leavers have no authority to raise concerns about the matter.

    It is one of the many ways in which Brexit is damaging the fabric of British politics.
    It's Jewish organisations and Labour Party members who are making the running on this issue, not Leavers.
    Honestly Meeks has lost the plot.

    It seems beyond comprehension to him that a leaver might actually, you know, oppose racism.
    Can you direct me to your post(s) criticising Farage for his nasty comments about the influence of the Jewish lobby? Comments which were condemned by Jewish organisations?
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    HYUFD said:

    Who ever thought you would see an Aussie cricket captain cry in public? They are supposed to be hard as nails.

    https://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2018/03/29/smith-tearful-as-he-takes-full-responsibility-for-ball-tamperi/

    Hard not to feel some sympathy for Steve Smith who clearly knows he made a big error which has hit him hard but I think Don Bradman would be turning in his grave

    Kim Hughes broke down when he relinquished the captaincy in 1984 - he couldn't even finish reading his prepared statement - so it's not unprecedented. though the circumstances couldn't have been more different.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,046

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Thank you, and apologies Josias. The bits in ----- are other peoples words. I'll work around the quote system for multiple quotes next times instead.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Watching the Steve Smith press conference was painful.

    I hope they reduce his ban to say six months.


    Why did Steve Smith make the judgement that it was a good idea to use sandpaper on a cricket ball in a test match? Also to get another player to do it rather than do it himself?

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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Daniel said:

    Trump going to get that Nobel Peace Prize
    That would be absolutely hilarious.
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    HYUFD said:

    Who ever thought you would see an Aussie cricket captain cry in public? They are supposed to be hard as nails.

    https://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2018/03/29/smith-tearful-as-he-takes-full-responsibility-for-ball-tamperi/

    Hard not to feel some sympathy for Steve Smith who clearly knows he made a big error which has hit him hard but I think Don Bradman would be turning in his grave

    You don't know much about cricket do you.

    Kim Hughes cried like a disgraced televangelist back in the 80s.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    Daniel said:

    Trump going to get that Nobel Peace Prize

    Well if Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness can... ;)
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).

    The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.

    Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
    You think putting that woman in charge of disciplinary matters showed anything other than contempt for those "rules"

    Explain to me why Labour is quietly letting back in those suspended for anti Semitic behaviour

    In some cases even giving them jobs

    Even if these rules are "tougher" - actions,or lack of them speak louder.

    Again your own mp's are disgusted (yet again) with the sewer that your party is descending into.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,808



    To be clear, my comments are aimed at those who post on PB, a specialist website that is aimed at those who have a particularly strong interest in politics and who in many cases actively participate in it.

    The referendum campaign climaxed with a pair of xenophobic posters, one from Vote Leave and one from Leave.EU, both of which were aimed at frightening voters with the untrue vision of millions of Muslims descending on Britain. They successfully persuaded the British public narrowly to vote for Leave as a consequence.

    This xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters. Indeed, they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign. This xenophobia did not cause these sophisticated Leave voters to have any qualms.

    So I'm afraid I regard the current professed horror that they now demonstrate about anti-Semitism as gross hypocrisy.

    The particular posters successfully persuaded the British people - though immigration was a specific issue in the campaign, one that a large majority of remainers and leavers on here identified as something to be addressed in order to adequately respect the result, the assertion that those specific poster campaigns took Leave over the line rather than the many other elements of the campaign is at best unproven, at worst invention.

    The xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters who did not have any qualms - you have spearheaded this line and are probably keeping more of a score on who has and has not expressed qualms and who has been wholly defensive of those posters than I, but I recall many Leavers on here being critical.

    Indeed they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign - yes, they got the result they wanted, but if they are of the, likely correct, opinion that the xenophobic posters were not the driver of the result and didn't like them, what more do they have to personally renounce.

    The difference between most on here being party members, whilst many fewer were directly associated with the individual Leave campaigns, means many Leave sophisticates genuinely have nothing to self-reflect on in regards to the conduct of the national Leave campaign itself.

    I can see how lumping all leavers into this bucket and demanding daily apology from each of them is getting you precisely nowhere. Even ''all PB sophisticates' is much too broad a net to cast.

    And the pity is more in that, your views on how Brexit should be dealt with at this stage, as well as those you held before the referendum, almost entirely reflect my own.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    GIN1138 said:


    Daniel said:

    Trump going to get that Nobel Peace Prize

    Well if Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness can... ;)
    Cough Obama cough
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    The use of German, so that the expression is the exact one used in Auschwitz, doesn't, how shall we say, exactly help their case.
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    GIN1138 said:


    Daniel said:

    Trump going to get that Nobel Peace Prize

    Well if Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness can... ;)
    Fakest of fake news.

    Adams nor McGuinness ever won the Nobel Peace Prize.

    John Hume and David Trimble did.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,387
    edited March 2018

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    If PB focussed on every time IDS said something stupid we'd be talking about nothing else.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,545
    Daniel said:

    Trump going to get that Nobel Peace Prize
    I think the credit belongs rather more to the South Korean leader... but since Kissinger got it, I guess even Trump is possible.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,986

    Thank you, and apologies Josias. The bits in ----- are other peoples words. I'll work around the quote system for multiple quotes next times instead.

    Thanks. Most of the time it's obvious which post is from someone else and which is from you, but sometimes it looks as though you are saying things I wouldn't expect you to say. ;)
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814

    GIN1138 said:


    Daniel said:

    Trump going to get that Nobel Peace Prize

    Well if Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness can... ;)
    Fakest of fake news.

    Adams nor McGuinness ever won the Nobel Peace Prize.


    There's still time... ;)
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:



    You asked me for an explanation of my position and I have given you one in considerable detail. It appears that you have no response to it.

    Actually I asked you a series of questions - and you chose to not to answer them.

    I have plenty of responses to you - but none that would actually do any good in terms of furthering the conversation.

    You have an absolute fixed view on those two posters. Nothing anyone has said to you has stopped you from repeating your lines about xenophobia over and over and over again.

    Nothing I or anyone else can do or say can change your position. I don't think that is because we are not persuasive enough or don't have strong enough arguments. You appear unwilling to listen - so what is the point?

    I have bitten my cyber tongue many times over the past months watching your contributions get more and more shrill. Recently I gave in and started responding - which was a mistake as no good has (or will) come from trying to engage with you on here. I shall not bother you further. I wish you would decide to stop bothering others with your endless repetition of a position we all know you hold.
    I realise that those who have pandered to xenophobia would rather not be reminded of that fact now that the work is done. Unfortunately, the damage is enduring and will continue to get worse until those who perpetrated it address what they have done.

    It is particularly germane in a week where anti-Semitism elsewhere in politics is under discussion. Leavers have no authority to raise concerns about the matter.

    It is one of the many ways in which Brexit is damaging the fabric of British politics.
    It's Jewish organisations and Labour Party members who are making the running on this issue, not Leavers.
    Honestly Meeks has lost the plot.

    It seems beyond comprehension to him that a leaver might actually, you know, oppose racism.
    Can you direct me to your post(s) criticising Farage for his nasty comments about the influence of the Jewish lobby? Comments which were condemned by Jewish organisations?
    I'm sure you can check for me - whilst your at it Roger once accused me of posting non stop support for the Zionist entity known as Israel - perhaps you can find them for me too

    or, is it possible I may have missed them or they were in a period when I wasn't reading this site?



  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Watching the Steve Smith press conference was painful.

    I hope they reduce his ban to say six months.


    Why did Steve Smith make the judgement that it was a good idea to use sandpaper on a cricket ball in a test match? Also to get another player to do it rather than do it himself?

    1. Smith thought he'd get away with cheating.
    2. Smith wasn't prepared to do the dirty work himself.
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Floater said:

    Mr. Eagles, Corbyn becoming leader pre-dates the referendum. The softness on anti-Semitism is a feature of Corbyn's leadership (which he now claims he's going to be tough on, so we'll see about that).

    The rules have only actually got tougher on anti-semitism since Corbyn came in, doesn't suit the official Conservative line I realise.

    Considering dog whistles were a part of the leave campaign whereas it has been the media trying to make big news of the accusations against Corbyn I'm not sure Corbyn can really be equated Leave in the Brexit referendum.
    You think putting that woman in charge of disciplinary matters showed anything other than contempt for those "rules"

    Explain to me why Labour is quietly letting back in those suspended for anti Semitic behaviour

    In some cases even giving them jobs

    Even if these rules are "tougher" - actions,or lack of them speak louder.

    Again your own mp's are disgusted (yet again) with the sewer that your party is descending into.
    'That woman' was not necessarily widely know to have made that comment at the time and without seeing what she exactly she was talking about I doubt she is some anti-semite or an apologist for them though the idea serves a purpose.

    I guess because they have served their suspension. I could for example ask the same about Anne Marie Morris....

    I guess her getting the job back means the Conservative party hates Black people...

    Our MPs have been disgusted about a lot of things for a long time, hard not to feel cynical about some motives.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,975

    HYUFD said:

    Who ever thought you would see an Aussie cricket captain cry in public? They are supposed to be hard as nails.

    https://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2018/03/29/smith-tearful-as-he-takes-full-responsibility-for-ball-tamperi/

    Hard not to feel some sympathy for Steve Smith who clearly knows he made a big error which has hit him hard but I think Don Bradman would be turning in his grave

    You don't know much about cricket do you.

    Kim Hughes cried like a disgraced televangelist back in the 80s.
    Got the impression from the interview that Smith’s dad had had ‘a word’ with him and that had hit him harder than anything CA could say.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    HYUFD said:

    Who ever thought you would see an Aussie cricket captain cry in public? They are supposed to be hard as nails.

    https://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2018/03/29/smith-tearful-as-he-takes-full-responsibility-for-ball-tamperi/

    Hard not to feel some sympathy for Steve Smith who clearly knows he made a big error which has hit him hard but I think Don Bradman would be turning in his grave

    Kim Hughes broke down when he relinquished the captaincy in 1984 - he couldn't even finish reading his prepared statement - so it's not unprecedented. though the circumstances couldn't have been more different.
    Hughes at least went after a defeat rather than cheating but it is very rare certainly, I think the culture of Aussie machismo is slowly breaking down. Sydney and Melbourne are now full of metrosexuals
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,884
    edited March 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    If the last lady to do an investigation for Corbyn got paid a peerage, then you should obviously ask for one too!

    Congratulations on the GIR profile :+1:
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited March 2018
    Congratulations Cyclefree!

    Choosing to rise above the mild jibes in brackets... ;)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,980
    Congrats, Miss Cyclefree :)
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    edited March 2018

    Congratulations Cyclefree!

    Choosing to rise above the mild jibes in brackets... ;)

    All done in the most affectionate taste!

    And thank you.
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    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    Congratulations.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,832
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    I wouldn't take a peerage that wasn't hereditary.

    An Order of Merit or Companion of Honour is much more distinguished.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    JackW said:

    Watching the Steve Smith press conference was painful.

    I hope they reduce his ban to say six months.


    Why did Steve Smith make the judgement that it was a good idea to use sandpaper on a cricket ball in a test match? Also to get another player to do it rather than do it himself?

    1. Smith thought he'd get away with cheating.
    2. Smith wasn't prepared to do the dirty work himself.

    Smith caught out and hit for six at the same time.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,545
    There's some talk of the Mueller enquiry heating up early next week, for anyone still following these things. In the meantime, some serious questions about the quality of Trump's legal representation:

    https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/03/jay-sekulow-michael-cohen-and-the-rest-of-trumps-legal-team-are-no-match-for-robert-mueller.html?
    All these defections and brush-offs leave Trump with his personal lawyer, Jay Sekulow—an attorney with no background in criminal law—working full time on the Russia probe. On Wednesday, Reuters reported that one of the attorneys helping Sekulow is Andrew Ekonomou, a little-known former prosecutor with a doctorate in medieval history. Ekonomou, who helped Sekulow represent Jews for Jesus in a case that came before the Supreme Court in 1987, told Reuters that while he hasn’t worked on anything all that big recently, he “prosecutes a lot of murders for the DA” in Brunswick, Georgia.

    And that’s about the extent of the legal firepower Trump has in his standoff with Mueller. Donald Trump wants his own personal Roy Cohn. In reality, he can’t even hire a Lionel Hutz.

    The ongoing and increasingly worrying problem for Trump is that he has lived for so long in the world of rich-man business-mogul law that his conception of lawyers and lawyering is badly skewed. He genuinely believes that attorneys like Michael Cohen—who is now embroiled in a wrestling match with a pugnacious Stormy Daniels and her lawyer—and Marc Kasowitz—who has represented Trump in litigation ranging from his divorce and bankruptcy proceedings to the Trump University lawsuit—can handle any type of legal proceeding….



    If you want a laugh at how legal arguments are handled in the US, take a look (around 8:45 into the video) at Stormy Daniels’ lawyer tell Michael Cohen’s attorney that his client is a thug… and repeat it a dozen or so times after being threatened with another lawsuit:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AlLw09I_Sk
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,975
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    Congrats. Being recognised by your peers is really something to celebrate.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @Cyclefree

    PWoPBR - Power Woman of Political Betting Rocks
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    Well done - many congratulations
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,986
    Congrats Ms Free.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    Well done, challenging SeanT and Nick Palmer and JackW in the PB Hall of Fame
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,283
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    Many congrats!
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,814
    Well done @Cyclefree :D
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,046
    I see the great leader received a Pyongyangesque reception in Ayr.

    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/979292569313128448
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    Congratulations

  • Options

    I see the great leader received a Pyongyangesque reception in Ayr.

    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/979292569313128448

    For those of us whose first language is English what did the random Scottish man say ?
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Is this fir Treeza May coming doon
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,046
    edited March 2018

    I see the great leader received a Pyongyangesque reception in Ayr.

    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/979292569313128448

    For those of us whose first language is English what did the random Scottish man say ?
    'Is this where Theresa May is coming down'.


    I think.
  • Options

    I see the great leader received a Pyongyangesque reception in Ayr.

    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/979292569313128448

    For those of us whose first language is English what did the random Scottish man say ?
    'Is this where Theresa May is coming down'.


    I think.
    Cheers.
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    I see the great leader received a Pyongyangesque reception in Ayr.

    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/979292569313128448

    For those of us whose first language is English what did the random Scottish man say ?
    Is this the Theresa May thingamajig
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2018

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    The use of German, so that the expression is the exact one used in Auschwitz, doesn't, how shall we say, exactly help their case.
    Yes, they're comparing the welfare regime to Nazism. Which is incredibly hyperbolic, and insensitive, but how is it "antisemitic" or a slur against Jewish people?
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    If PB focussed on every time IDS said something stupid we'd be talking about nothing else.
    It wasn't stupid, just infelicitous language. Work is of course empowering and every effort should be made to help people into / back into it.

    The unfortunate echoes of "arbecht macht frei" were of course picked up, highlighted, and memed by the same people who are currently disgracing themselves and the Labour Party on Twitter. No-one should be surprised.
  • Options
    calum said:

    I see the great leader received a Pyongyangesque reception in Ayr.

    https://twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/979292569313128448

    For those of us whose first language is English what did the random Scottish man say ?
    Is this the Theresa May thingamajig
    Ta
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    Congrats Cyclefree! One of the nicest things about this site is seeing people's projects and ambitions progressing.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Danny565 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    The use of German, so that the expression is the exact one used in Auschwitz, doesn't, how shall we say, exactly help their case.
    Yes, they're comparing the welfare regime to Nazism. Which is incredibly hyperbolic, and insensitive, but how is it "antisemitic" or a slur against Jewish people?


    It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.

  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    I wouldn't take a peerage that wasn't hereditary.

    An Order of Merit or Companion of Honour is much more distinguished.
    It's probably as well you didn't suggest the Garter (ooh Missus!)

    Congratulations @cyclefree
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,046
    Danny565 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    The use of German, so that the expression is the exact one used in Auschwitz, doesn't, how shall we say, exactly help their case.
    Yes, they're comparing the welfare regime to Nazism. Which is incredibly hyperbolic, and insensitive, but how is it "antisemitic" or a slur against Jewish people?
    Christ, don't set them off.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2018

    Danny565 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    The use of German, so that the expression is the exact one used in Auschwitz, doesn't, how shall we say, exactly help their case.
    Yes, they're comparing the welfare regime to Nazism. Which is incredibly hyperbolic, and insensitive, but how is it "antisemitic" or a slur against Jewish people?


    It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.

    And I wouldn't disagree with it. But again, it being insensitive and a huge exaggeration is not antisemitic.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2018

    Work is of course empowering and every effort should be made to help people into / back into it.

    Do you honestly believe there's anyone, including people who oppose the government's welfare cuts and sanctions regime, who disagrees with this sentence?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_P said:

    but can you explain why that tweet is antisemitic?

    Can you explain why you think it isn't?
    Because it makes no direct reference to Jews, neither positively or negatively. It makes a crude, inappropriate comparison to the Holocaust, but even on those puerile terms it inherently acknowledges that the Holocaust took place and was horrific, otherwise what's the point of the tweet?

    Your turn.
    In the context of the last week, posting quotes associated with the Holocaust in that way is, at best, tasteless trolling.
    I'd say at best just dumbness in the context of the last week. However the association of welfare reforms, universal credit and IDS with Arbeit Macht Frei meme has been around for ages (see below). As others have similarly noted with regard to edgy comedians, if someone looks at twitter and is shocked by tasteless trolling, they must have led a very sheltered life.

    https://tinyurl.com/ya5u6ld2
    Fake news. 'Work actually helps free people [from a cycle poverty and unemployment]' was what IDS said.
    Mebbes, I don't know. The clunking insight that work frees you from unemployment sounds just about stupid enough for IDS. My point was that I don't recall anyone branding that as antisemitic at the time (just tasteless, disgusting, inappropriate etc, etc, etc).
    The use of German, so that the expression is the exact one used in Auschwitz, doesn't, how shall we say, exactly help their case.
    Yes, they're comparing the welfare regime to Nazism. Which is incredibly hyperbolic, and insensitive, but how is it "antisemitic" or a slur against Jewish people?


    It suggests that the experience of ten million people, many of them Jews, being sent to their deaths is comparable to being asked to attend a job centre. That trivialises their experience.

    And I wouldn't disagree with it. But again, it being insensitive and a huge exaggeration is not antisemitic.
    No, I'd agree there: it's not. However, it does trivialise the Holocaust, so it's pretty borderline indirectly. But frankly, critics of the image would be better simply going with the gross bad taste and insensitivity of it.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,884
    Floater said:
    Bloody hell, who are these idiots, and for how many days does this story have to lead the news before people decide they can’t support Corbyn’s party?

    There have to be a number of MPs seriously considering resigning the whip by now, even if they don’t want to cross the floor?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    Scott_P said:
    Exactly. They will take anything can be the only conclusion.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    (Perhaps Corbyn should appoint me to carry out his investigation. I can actually do one. And I wouldn't ask for a peerage either. Far too vulgar. And given out like sweeties these day to any old riff raff.)

    I wouldn't take a peerage that wasn't hereditary.

    An Order of Merit or Companion of Honour is much more distinguished.
    I would. I might have to wait for a new prime minister though.

    CHs aren't particularly distinguished: they're a second-class OM. At least with a peerage, they're the highest honour of their type routinely given out.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, completely off topic, in a quite blatant trumpet-blowing exercise and in an effort to bring some sweetness and light to you all on Maundy Thursday (did you all remember?) I have been nominated as one of 100 Women in Investigations globally and will be profiled in the GIR forthcoming magazine and online.

    So there!

    Congratulations.
  • Options
    Floater said:
    Is twitter increasingly the modern equivalent of the tower of babel?
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited March 2018
    Pro_Rata said:


    The particular posters successfully persuaded the British people - though immigration was a specific issue in the campaign, one that a large majority of remainers and leavers on here identified as something to be addressed in order to adequately respect the result, the assertion that those specific poster campaigns took Leave over the line rather than the many other elements of the campaign is at best unproven, at worst invention.

    The xenophobia was entirely acceptable to these sophisticated voters who did not have any qualms - you have spearheaded this line and are probably keeping more of a score on who has and has not expressed qualms and who has been wholly defensive of those posters than I, but I recall many Leavers on here being critical.

    Indeed they were ecstatic at the success of the campaign - yes, they got the result they wanted, but if they are of the, likely correct, opinion that the xenophobic posters were not the driver of the result and didn't like them, what more do they have to personally renounce.

    The difference between most on here being party members, whilst many fewer were directly associated with the individual Leave campaigns, means many Leave sophisticates genuinely have nothing to self-reflect on in regards to the conduct of the national Leave campaign itself.

    I can see how lumping all leavers into this bucket and demanding daily apology from each of them is getting you precisely nowhere. Even ''all PB sophisticates' is much too broad a net to cast.

    And the pity is more in that, your views on how Brexit should be dealt with at this stage, as well as those you held before the referendum, almost entirely reflect my own.

    Two short points. First, I demand nothing of anyone. I'm not trying to persuade anyone. I merely note the consequences of alternative courses of action and give my own views. I'm not expecting scales to fall from anyone's eyes. The extreme levels to which Leavers go to rewrite history requires the point to be reiterated regularly.

    Secondly, the xenophobic posters were at the core of the campaign. Leave activists and voters evidently thought this an acceptable level of xenophobia to associate themselves with. But now they apparently wish to opine about anti-Semitism without being reminded of that.
  • Options
    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    HYUFD said:

    Who ever thought you would see an Aussie cricket captain cry in public? They are supposed to be hard as nails.

    https://www.aol.co.uk/sport/2018/03/29/smith-tearful-as-he-takes-full-responsibility-for-ball-tamperi/

    Hard not to feel some sympathy for Steve Smith who clearly knows he made a big error which has hit him hard but I think Don Bradman would be turning in his grave

    Kim Hughes broke down when he relinquished the captaincy in 1984 - he couldn't even finish reading his prepared statement - so it's not unprecedented. though the circumstances couldn't have been more different.
    Not really the tough Aussie swagmen of old as epitomised in Waltzing Matilda.

    Perhaps he needs to take a dip in a billabong to calm down.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    edited March 2018
    Floater said:
    It passed that point the moment Corbyn became leader. He has enough baggage of his own to make any "moderate" leave the party.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    Bloody hell, who are these idiots, and for how many days does this story have to lead the news before people decide they can’t support Corbyn’s party?

    There have to be a number of MPs seriously considering resigning the whip by now, even if they don’t want to cross the floor?
    I was avoiding it because Guido but you seem suitably outraged so I thought I would have a look...

    People swearing at people online, honestly?

    Not saying that isn't bad but quite frankly everyone would have to go and sit as independents if that was the limit.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    JackW said:

    Watching the Steve Smith press conference was painful.

    I hope they reduce his ban to say six months.


    Why did Steve Smith make the judgement that it was a good idea to use sandpaper on a cricket ball in a test match? Also to get another player to do it rather than do it himself?

    1. Smith thought he'd get away with cheating.
    2. Smith wasn't prepared to do the dirty work himself.
    1. As captain he would have got disproportionate credit from victory
    2. Some kid can take the risk of getting caught

    He was pursuing his own interests
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,884
    glw said:

    Floater said:
    It passed that point the moment Corbyn became leader. He has enough baggage of his own to make any "moderate" leave the party.
    But they haven’t, have they? He still has 261 MPs, two thirds of whom have already voted to challenge him once. Yet none of them choose to either challenge him again or resign the whip.
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Danny565 said:

    Work is of course empowering and every effort should be made to help people into / back into it.

    Do you honestly believe there's anyone, including people who oppose the government's welfare cuts and sanctions regime, who disagrees with this sentence?
    Fair enough, that does read a bit motherhood and apple pie. But clearly people draw different lines as to what "every effort" means in practice and I think many people give up too easily on hard cases and proclaim instead that they shouldn't have to work.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    Lehman gone
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    Scott_P said:
    At the point Momentum starts deselecting them
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    Bloody hell, who are these idiots, and for how many days does this story have to lead the news before people decide they can’t support Corbyn’s party?

    There have to be a number of MPs seriously considering resigning the whip by now, even if they don’t want to cross the floor?
    God knows who these idiots are. But the 'kinder, gentler' politics crap is now beginning to remind me of the famous Neil Young line, "We've got a kinder, gentler machine gun hand."
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,832
    Theresa May now leads by 38% to 27% as best PM, according to Yougov.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    At the point Momentum starts deselecting them
    Which is the only reason the Momentum mob haven't moved yet. They'll probably wait until only a few months out from GE.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Floater said:
    It passed that point the moment Corbyn became leader. He has enough baggage of his own to make any "moderate" leave the party.
    But they haven’t, have they? He still has 261 MPs, two thirds of whom have already voted to challenge him once. Yet none of them choose to either challenge him again or resign the whip.
    If they all jumped ship and formed 'Realist Labour' - they would immediately have a group that was large enough to become the official opposition. Corbyn and Rump Labour would lose the trappings and cash that goes with it. The Union money would soon follow.

    It would be messy - extremely so. But it is an option
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,204

    Sandpit said:

    glw said:

    Floater said:
    It passed that point the moment Corbyn became leader. He has enough baggage of his own to make any "moderate" leave the party.
    But they haven’t, have they? He still has 261 MPs, two thirds of whom have already voted to challenge him once. Yet none of them choose to either challenge him again or resign the whip.
    If they all jumped ship and formed 'Realist Labour' - they would immediately have a group that was large enough to become the official opposition. Corbyn and Rump Labour would lose the trappings and cash that goes with it. The Union money would soon follow.

    It would be messy - extremely so. But it is an option
    They haven't the guts and the tribalism is too deep.
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    Pulpstar said:

    Lehman gone

    i had horrendous flashbacks to 2008 there seeing that....... going for a lie down... now that was a stressful time!!
This discussion has been closed.