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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The one way for LAB to close down it’s antisemitism crisis is

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    houndtang said:

    Labours travails would be almost funny if these clowns hadn't got - and continue to poll - a still unbelievable 40% of the vote last year.

    That's how bad the Tories are. They cannot be ensured of a majority even when faced with an institutionally anti-Semitic party nostalgic for the 1970s, led by a quasi-Marxist who backs any murderous regime or cause as long as it is anti-US, anti-UK or anti-Israel. God help us!!

    Nah, it shows how bad the people who would still vote Labour are.
    40% of the country are not bad, no more than the 40% voting Tory can all be bad.
    I’m still waiting for my baby to eat after voting Tory for the first time last year....
    Same here - shows the party doesn't keep its promises I suppose.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    DavidL said:

    Speaking of Bristol and daft far leftwingery:
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/980739661869015041

    I think that really does bring the mess that is Corbyn's Labour into sharp relief

    The fact that an MP is facing censure for having protested anti-Semitism is so not what Labour used to stand for.

    All of this can only be laid at Corbyn's door. He has set the mood music for the Party and the Party is now suffering as a result.

    The membership might still support him - but the voters will be less inclined to go to the polling stations to support a Party that is indulging in such in-fighting and presenting such an unpleasant face.
    So you are predicting Tory gains next month? Brave, very brave.
    If you didn't vote for Corbyn first time round, I am not certain that there is anything that he has said or done since last June to make people more likely to support him next time round. The exposure of the nasty side of contemporary Labour politics and the internal splits being played out in public is going to stop some people considering switching their votes to Labour.

    Also those who held their nose and voted for Labour last year might not yet have reason to switch to another party - but they do have a reason to stay at home.

    Will this play out in May? I have no idea. Will it impact Labour's electability at the next GE? I think that is a distinct possibility.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    edited April 2018
    Sean_F said:

    Well, quite.

    Off-topic: got a small amount to spend from a Christmas Waterstones card. If I had a thousand pounds I'd be able to buy all the things I want... as an aside, astounded by the absolute predominance of WWII in the Military History section. Must be 95% from the last century (in bestseller's).

    I am open to suggestions, incidentally, if anyone has particularly fantastic books they've enjoyed.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/rebel-prince/tom-bower/9780008291730
    Oh yes. The review in The Times was hilarious.

    Screaming "what is this plastic?" when sandwiches were produced covered in cellophane; hiring people to remove slugs by night from his garden; bringing his own lavatory seat when staying with other people; taking 43 pieces of luggage to a religious retreat. This is our future king.
    Do any other members of the Royal Family behave in such a manner ?

    I think my favourite was 'four gardeners who “lie flat, nose down on a trailer” to hand pluck weeds, because of the prince’s hatred of pesticides'.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282

    Mr. kle4, isn't Bristol a very Green city? If so, it'd suggest there's a strong pool of far left persons who may be swayed by daft ideas.

    Mr. Eagles, cheers for that answer (as you may've gathered, this isn't my area). Not a single BBC series amongst them...

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, buying the biography of a living person is not something I would do (except as a present for another).

    It is very useful to know about the man who will soon be ruling us.

    If he can betray his wife, what's to stop him from betraying us?
    Corbyn will never be PM.

    Oh, you meant Charles?
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    Mr. Eagly, incidentally, as I was enjoying my sandwiches it occurred to me your biography suggestion might have been serious (my first thought was that you were taking the piss). If so, I do apologise for calling you a scallywag.

    If not, then you retain your scallywag status.

    Mr. G, cheers, I'll give those a look.

    Mr. Twelve, astute thinking on Charles. On the BBC as subscription: nice idea, but I'll believe that when I see it.

    It was a serious suggestion, it is a riveting read.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Eagles, in that case I'm sorry I bit your head off. I thought you were deliberately suggesting something that was as far as possible from ancient history to be a scamp :p

    My living biography point stands, though. And I don't need convincing that Charles is less than ideal.
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    Do any other members of the Royal Family behave in such a manner ?

    I think my favourite was 'four gardeners who “lie flat, nose down on a trailer” to hand pluck weeds, because of the prince’s hatred of pesticides'.

    I mentioned last week that years ago my father and his colleagues met Prince Philip.

    Absolutely loved him, said he was brilliant company, immediately put everyone at ease.

    He's the antithesis of Prince Charles.

    From a longstanding White House butler.

    When reflecting on his fondest memory, Westray talks about a time in 1979 when Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip visited the White House. After dinner, Prince Philip went into the Red Room, next to the state dining room. Westray and his buddy were serving liquor. Westray says he was carrying the tray and glasses.

    "The prince was in there by himself, which was odd, because everybody else had gone down to the other end of the building," Westray says. "I said, 'Your Majesty, would you care for a cordial?' He says, 'I'll take one if you let me serve it.' What do you do? I didn't do all that because I had the stuff in my hand. And he says, 'If you let me pour it, I'll have one with you.'

    "... So he poured it, the one he wanted, and we took the same thing that he had. And we had our drink there together and had a little talk while we were there. He told us if we were ever over there in London to stop at Buckingham Palace and see him. Can you imagine the prince serving you? I enjoyed it. You know, we're not supposed to drink and carry on at that time. We're not guests. It was just the three of us in the room, so nobody knew what happened. And I drank my little cordial, we all drank, and had a little conversation. But that was one thing I'll never forget, having been served by royalty."


    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99418917
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    DavidL said:

    Mr. kle4, isn't Bristol a very Green city? If so, it'd suggest there's a strong pool of far left persons who may be swayed by daft ideas.

    Mr. Eagles, cheers for that answer (as you may've gathered, this isn't my area). Not a single BBC series amongst them...

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, buying the biography of a living person is not something I would do (except as a present for another).

    It is very useful to know about the man who will soon be ruling us.

    If he can betray his wife, what's to stop him from betraying us?
    Corbyn will never be PM.

    Oh, you meant Charles?
    Here's a thought.

    In a few years we might be living under King Charles III and Prime Minister Corbyn.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,936

    Silicon Valley and billions are back and both still good.

    My guilty pleasure, starring for one season Eddie izzard, the good wife, which now has a spin off the good fight. If you like suits, you will probably like this.

    I go to Silicon Valley quite a bit. The series gets it brilliantly. Billions is fantastic, too. In the last series they filmed a scene in my favourite New York restaurant - Keanes. I believe it's one of the Trumpmeister's favourites as well. Anyone going to New York should check it out and make sure to go to the bar, too. That is straight out of Mad Men, my favourite US series of all time. Brideshead Revisited wins for the UK.

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984

    Sean_F said:

    Well, quite.

    Off-topic: got a small amount to spend from a Christmas Waterstones card. If I had a thousand pounds I'd be able to buy all the things I want... as an aside, astounded by the absolute predominance of WWII in the Military History section. Must be 95% from the last century (in bestseller's).

    I am open to suggestions, incidentally, if anyone has particularly fantastic books they've enjoyed.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/rebel-prince/tom-bower/9780008291730
    Oh yes. The review in The Times was hilarious.

    Screaming "what is this plastic?" when sandwiches were produced covered in cellophane; hiring people to remove slugs by night from his garden; bringing his own lavatory seat when staying with other people; taking 43 pieces of luggage to a religious retreat. This is our future king.
    Do any other members of the Royal Family behave in such a manner ?

    I think my favourite was 'four gardeners who “lie flat, nose down on a trailer” to hand pluck weeds, because of the prince’s hatred of pesticides'.
    I suppose that the fact that Charles ‘biography' was first serialised in the Heil leads me doubt it’s complete veracity. And that’s from a republican. (Yeah, I recognise the illogicality of the nom de keyboard!)
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    Mr. kle4, isn't Bristol a very Green city? If so, it'd suggest there's a strong pool of far left persons who may be swayed by daft ideas.

    Mr. Eagles, cheers for that answer (as you may've gathered, this isn't my area). Not a single BBC series amongst them...

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, buying the biography of a living person is not something I would do (except as a present for another).

    It is very useful to know about the man who will soon be ruling us.

    If he can betray his wife, what's to stop him from betraying us?
    You are Justin124 and I claim my £5.
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    Mr. Eagles, in that case I'm sorry I bit your head off. I thought you were deliberately suggesting something that was as far as possible from ancient history to be a scamp :p

    My living biography point stands, though. And I don't need convincing that Charles is less than ideal.

    I like Tom Bower's biographies, plus I've always found it useful to read things out of my usual comfort zone.

    Plus this is a really good book, and fantastically well received.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076


    Do any other members of the Royal Family behave in such a manner ?

    I think my favourite was 'four gardeners who “lie flat, nose down on a trailer” to hand pluck weeds, because of the prince’s hatred of pesticides'.

    I mentioned last week that years ago my father and his colleagues met Prince Philip.

    Absolutely loved him, said he was brilliant company, immediately put everyone at ease.

    He's the antithesis of Prince Charles.

    From a longstanding White House butler.

    When reflecting on his fondest memory, Westray talks about a time in 1979 when Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip visited the White House. After dinner, Prince Philip went into the Red Room, next to the state dining room. Westray and his buddy were serving liquor. Westray says he was carrying the tray and glasses.

    "The prince was in there by himself, which was odd, because everybody else had gone down to the other end of the building," Westray says. "I said, 'Your Majesty, would you care for a cordial?' He says, 'I'll take one if you let me serve it.' What do you do? I didn't do all that because I had the stuff in my hand. And he says, 'If you let me pour it, I'll have one with you.'

    "... So he poured it, the one he wanted, and we took the same thing that he had. And we had our drink there together and had a little talk while we were there. He told us if we were ever over there in London to stop at Buckingham Palace and see him. Can you imagine the prince serving you? I enjoyed it. You know, we're not supposed to drink and carry on at that time. We're not guests. It was just the three of us in the room, so nobody knew what happened. And I drank my little cordial, we all drank, and had a little conversation. But that was one thing I'll never forget, having been served by royalty."


    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99418917
    I've never understood the antipathy towards Prince Philip - he's always seemed like a bloke representative of his upbringing and time.

    Whereas Charles has always had an aura of otherworldly weirdness about him.
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    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    Good Girls Revolt on Prime also a nostalgic look back at office life; in this case a 1970s New York magazine publisher... trigger warning though, it’s theme is sex discrimination - sobering thought that one is old enough to remember smoke filled meeting rooms, typewriters and having ones own secretary who took shorthand and made tea...
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081

    Mortimer said:

    Shows to binge watch

    Lucifer, Suits, Billions, Westworld, Man in the High Castle, Pretty Little Liars, Britannia, The Good Doctor, Babylon Berlin, The Blacklist.

    Note, Westworld has to be watched without distraction, there are such little nuances you might miss.

    Is babylon Berlin available to stream? I keep hearing it mentioned!
    Its excellent! Brings Weimar Germany vividly to life - and stunning production values - lets hope they go beyond two series.
    We agree on something.

    Apart from all the other good stuff, I like the way they kept away from the Nazis until the end of series 2.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Eagles, I occasionally do that. I've read a very good biography of Tesla by Marc Seifer, and that's very nearly current events.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745


    Do any other members of the Royal Family behave in such a manner ?

    I think my favourite was 'four gardeners who “lie flat, nose down on a trailer” to hand pluck weeds, because of the prince’s hatred of pesticides'.

    I mentioned last week that years ago my father and his colleagues met Prince Philip.

    Absolutely loved him, said he was brilliant company, immediately put everyone at ease.

    He's the antithesis of Prince Charles.

    From a longstanding White House butler.

    When reflecting on his fondest memory, Westray talks about a time in 1979 when Queen Elizabeth II and Prince Philip visited the White House. After dinner, Prince Philip went into the Red Room, next to the state dining room. Westray and his buddy were serving liquor. Westray says he was carrying the tray and glasses.

    "The prince was in there by himself, which was odd, because everybody else had gone down to the other end of the building," Westray says. "I said, 'Your Majesty, would you care for a cordial?' He says, 'I'll take one if you let me serve it.' What do you do? I didn't do all that because I had the stuff in my hand. And he says, 'If you let me pour it, I'll have one with you.'

    "... So he poured it, the one he wanted, and we took the same thing that he had. And we had our drink there together and had a little talk while we were there. He told us if we were ever over there in London to stop at Buckingham Palace and see him. Can you imagine the prince serving you? I enjoyed it. You know, we're not supposed to drink and carry on at that time. We're not guests. It was just the three of us in the room, so nobody knew what happened. And I drank my little cordial, we all drank, and had a little conversation. But that was one thing I'll never forget, having been served by royalty."


    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99418917
    I've never understood the antipathy towards Prince Philip - he's always seemed like a bloke representative of his upbringing and time.

    Whereas Charles has always had an aura of otherworldly weirdness about him.
    I've always thought people were reasonably happy with Philip - as you say, a man of his time particularly when it comes to blunt comments, but generally liked as charismatic.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    Yorkcity said:

    malcolmg said:

    I don't suppose the 70th anniversary of Israel's founding, next month - and the protests, remembrances, celebrations etc going along with it, both here and in the Middle East - is likely to help.

    Interesting has been the low-key reaction in the UK to what has been happening in Gaza over the weekend. I wonder if people feel intimidated by the current Corbyn saga
    Just crap media we have in this country, they are selective in their reporting. Much more important than Corbyn cannot make out people in a mural compared to real crimes.
    Totally agree.The terrible fire in Russia in a shopping complex, was hardly covered .Just one example.
    That was shocking. 61 dead, many of them children in the cinema.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948
    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Well, quite.

    Off-topic: got a small amount to spend from a Christmas Waterstones card. If I had a thousand pounds I'd be able to buy all the things I want... as an aside, astounded by the absolute predominance of WWII in the Military History section. Must be 95% from the last century (in bestseller's).

    I am open to suggestions, incidentally, if anyone has particularly fantastic books they've enjoyed.

    MD , my favourite ever book is Kidnapped and its follow up Catriona. From history types , The Civil War: A Narrative By Shelby Foote , a Trilogy is brilliant and Wellington: The Iron Duke by Richard Holmes is also excellent.
    A very personal one is Mountain and flood: The history of the 52nd (Lowland) Division, 1939-1946 by George Blake. My father fought in this division as member of the 4/5th Royal Scots Fusiliers. They spent 2 years doing mountain training but never got to fight in the mountains.
    I absolutely adored Kidnapped as a child. We went on a family holiday and my late Dad used to read us a chapter every night. I could not wait to get to bed! This generation has so much more with the internet and social media but they miss a lot too. I look back on those times with great fondness.
    For sure David, I used to read books constantly , far superior to any of the stuff they have nowadays, fired the imagination. I still read Kidnapped every so many years. I have always promised myself a first edition , so will indulge myself this year. Treasure Island was another one that was great as a child.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Mr. Eagles, I occasionally do that. I've read a very good biography of Tesla by Marc Seifer, and that's very nearly current events.

    ...I've read Atomic Robo, a comic book about an action hero scientist robot built by Tesla, that's almost the same thing, right? I'm cultured!
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Eddie Izzard's appointment to the NEC will give an opportunity for those posting anti-semitic messages online to post transphobic messages instead.

    Real progress.

    Izzard is an utter joke.

    makes sense for Labour to promote him
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Mr. Eagles, are those all Netflix?

    I do wonder if the BBC is going towards a funding crisis. Still suspect they'll try and get the licence fee to cover any device that can watch TV, rather than just ye olde television and radio, otherwise the licence fee base will surely diminish over time.

    Hmm. What if a TV set was created that couldn't receive TV signals (ie Freeview) but *was* internet-connected and could stream through the internet. Would such a device be liable for the licence fee?

    I am seated before such a device now, in that I don't see what it would consist of other than a monitor and some speakers.

    I have just realised I am paying the licence fee to watch the first 15 minutes of pmqs when I remember it is on. I could presumably stream it for free via 5 live. This is not an efficient use of resources, and come renewal time I will bin it and watch whatever is watchable via Amazon Prime.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282

    DavidL said:

    Mr. kle4, isn't Bristol a very Green city? If so, it'd suggest there's a strong pool of far left persons who may be swayed by daft ideas.

    Mr. Eagles, cheers for that answer (as you may've gathered, this isn't my area). Not a single BBC series amongst them...

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, buying the biography of a living person is not something I would do (except as a present for another).

    It is very useful to know about the man who will soon be ruling us.

    If he can betray his wife, what's to stop him from betraying us?
    Corbyn will never be PM.

    Oh, you meant Charles?
    Here's a thought.

    In a few years we might be living under King Charles III and Prime Minister Corbyn.
    It's not a particularly good thought, is it? But thanks for sharing.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948
    Floater said:

    Eddie Izzard's appointment to the NEC will give an opportunity for those posting anti-semitic messages online to post transphobic messages instead.

    Real progress.

    Izzard is an utter joke.

    makes sense for Labour to promote him
    It just highlights the estate labour is in , if someone had made it up for a TV Series people would have thought it crap. Just imagine Izzard as a cabinet minister.
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    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Mr. kle4, isn't Bristol a very Green city? If so, it'd suggest there's a strong pool of far left persons who may be swayed by daft ideas.

    Mr. Eagles, cheers for that answer (as you may've gathered, this isn't my area). Not a single BBC series amongst them...

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, buying the biography of a living person is not something I would do (except as a present for another).

    It is very useful to know about the man who will soon be ruling us.

    If he can betray his wife, what's to stop him from betraying us?
    Corbyn will never be PM.

    Oh, you meant Charles?
    Here's a thought.

    In a few years we might be living under King Charles III and Prime Minister Corbyn.
    It's not a particularly good thought, is it? But thanks for sharing.
    If I wanted to be utterly pessimistic I could have said

    In a few years we might be living under King Charles III and Prime Minister Corbyn overseeing a bad Brexit and the break up of the United Kingdom.
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    28 years of hurt ends and my phone dies when I'm away from home...

    HOORAR!!

    Burnley to finish above Arsenal and Chelsea???

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    Pardew gone.... little late in the day.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT, box sets, I'd recommend Gomorrah.

    FPT, serial killers, I met Limbs in the Loch murderer, Ian Beggs, at the Young Conservatives' Conference in 1987. It turned out he'd committed his first killing, a couple of days previously.

    I was the Crown Junior in the trial of Angus Sinclair for the murder and rape of Mary Gallacher. We didn't talk much.
    Some cases must be appalling for Judges, barristers, and jurors to have to sit through.
    I did a 12 week jury service stint once on the case of an alleged serial rapist and murderer.

    The very first witness we heard was a rape survivor - utterly harrowing.

    He was found guilty on all charges

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Mr. kle4, isn't Bristol a very Green city? If so, it'd suggest there's a strong pool of far left persons who may be swayed by daft ideas.

    Mr. Eagles, cheers for that answer (as you may've gathered, this isn't my area). Not a single BBC series amongst them...

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, buying the biography of a living person is not something I would do (except as a present for another).

    It is very useful to know about the man who will soon be ruling us.

    If he can betray his wife, what's to stop him from betraying us?
    Corbyn will never be PM.

    Oh, you meant Charles?
    Here's a thought.

    In a few years we might be living under King Charles III and Prime Minister Corbyn.
    It's not a particularly good thought, is it? But thanks for sharing.
    If I wanted to be utterly pessimistic I could have said

    In a few years we might be living under King Charles III and Prime Minister Corbyn overseeing a bad Brexit and the break up of the United Kingdom.
    Pretty confident 3 out of 4 of those is not going to happen.
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    28 years of hurt ends and my phone dies when I'm away from home...

    HOORAR!!

    Burnley to finish above Arsenal and Chelsea???

    Profitable day, would have been even more profitable if the referee had sent off a Spurs, two at least deserved red cards.

    Given the referee performances this weekend, especially from Andre Marriner and Neil Swarbrick, is anyone else shocked that for the first time in 80 years no Englishman will be a referee at the world cup?
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    MetatronMetatron Posts: 193
    Removing Corbyn as Labour leader is not going to remove the elephant in the room that few will discuss and that is the degree of anti-Semitism among the British Islamic community.
    The establishment are clearly more concerned about being called `islamaphobic` than addressing it and the politicians will be aware of how many more consistituencies are influenced by the Islamic vote than the Jewish vote
    Jewish students are being bullied at Univerisities.The students bullying them will be going on to influential positions in public institions.The establishment will turn a blind eye.
    The BBC has become a propaganda media outlet for Islam.
    Wonder what % of British Jewish will be looking to emigrate from Britain in the near future?
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Meanwhile in Bristol:

    "Bristol West MP Thangam Debbonaire has said she is ‘just sad’ after she faced being summoned by her own party members to ‘explain herself’ as Labour’s bitter civil war over antisemitism arrived in the city."

    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-mp-faces-censure-motion-1406909

    They are fecked aren't they?

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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    tlg86 said:

    houndtang said:

    Labours travails would be almost funny if these clowns hadn't got - and continue to poll - a still unbelievable 40% of the vote last year.

    That's how bad the Tories are. They cannot be ensured of a majority even when faced with an institutionally anti-Semitic party nostalgic for the 1970s, led by a quasi-Marxist who backs any murderous regime or cause as long as it is anti-US, anti-UK or anti-Israel. God help us!!

    Nah, it shows how bad the people who would still vote Labour are.

    In which case we're still buggered as they are nearly half the country. But I am a bit more generous than you. I think a lot of voters see a Tory party led by incompetents who have no interest in anything except personal advancement, who merrily dogwhistle to get the votes of racists, xenophobes and bigots, who are nostalgic for a time that has gone and will never come again and who have no idea how to tackle the country's problems. They choose to vote against such a party.
    In that case - why would those people not vote for the Lib Dems? Or the Greens?
    The Lib Dems lost seats to Labour last time as well.

    To me it's obvious - the people voting Labour don't believe Corbyn is anti-semitic or that he supports murderous regimes.

    The alternative is that 40% of the country likes anti-semitism and murderous dictatorships.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. kle4, is that by the chap who did 8-Bit Theater?

    Mr. Scrapheap, my camera stopped working without warning just before I was going to take a few pictures of my brother's newborn son. [I'm not big on taking pictures, though I did have a few years of snapping birds from around here, but was less than amused at the timing].
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    Alan Pardew leaves West Brom
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,081
    edited April 2018
    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Well, quite.

    Off-topic: got a small amount to spend from a Christmas Waterstones card. If I had a thousand pounds I'd be able to buy all the things I want... as an aside, astounded by the absolute predominance of WWII in the Military History section. Must be 95% from the last century (in bestseller's).

    I am open to suggestions, incidentally, if anyone has particularly fantastic books they've enjoyed.

    MD , my favourite ever book is Kidnapped and its follow up Catriona. From history types , The Civil War: A Narrative By Shelby Foote , a Trilogy is brilliant and Wellington: The Iron Duke by Richard Holmes is also excellent.
    A very personal one is Mountain and flood: The history of the 52nd (Lowland) Division, 1939-1946 by George Blake. My father fought in this division as member of the 4/5th Royal Scots Fusiliers. They spent 2 years doing mountain training but never got to fight in the mountains.
    I absolutely adored Kidnapped as a child. We went on a family holiday and my late Dad used to read us a chapter every night. I could not wait to get to bed! This generation has so much more with the internet and social media but they miss a lot too. I look back on those times with great fondness.
    For sure David, I used to read books constantly , far superior to any of the stuff they have nowadays, fired the imagination. I still read Kidnapped every so many years. I have always promised myself a first edition , so will indulge myself this year. Treasure Island was another one that was great as a child.
    I read them as a kid then went through a Tusitala edition of his collected works (32 volumes from memory) when I worked in a secondhand bookshop, lots of good stuff there; The Master of Ballantrae was a favourite from that period. I'll buy a set at some point and do it all over again.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282

    28 years of hurt ends and my phone dies when I'm away from home...

    HOORAR!!

    Burnley to finish above Arsenal and Chelsea???

    Profitable day, would have been even more profitable if the referee had sent off a Spurs, two at least deserved red cards.

    Given the referee performances this weekend, especially from Andre Marriner and Neil Swarbrick, is anyone else shocked that for the first time in 80 years no Englishman will be a referee at the world cup?
    Any football referee would look good compared to that interfering prat that was in the ring on Saturday night.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Mr. kle4, is that by the chap who did 8-Bit Theater?

    Yes it is - I think it is now continuing as a webcomic (and so with less high quality art and colouring) but I've got the first few volumes and it is a fun ride.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Speaking of Bristol and daft far leftwingery:
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/980739661869015041

    The motion has not yet been carried.

    The test is if it is approved.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Floater said:

    Meanwhile in Bristol:

    "Bristol West MP Thangam Debbonaire has said she is ‘just sad’ after she faced being summoned by her own party members to ‘explain herself’ as Labour’s bitter civil war over antisemitism arrived in the city."

    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-mp-faces-censure-motion-1406909

    They are fecked aren't they?

    No. They are at 40% in the polls and, at worst, in with a shout of winning the next election.
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    You know how many times I watched election night 2015...... I think a certain R5L match commentary from yesterday may break my PB.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,590
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    If you take Jeremy Corbyn at his word, then the leader of Britain’s Labour Party is no anti-Semite. It’s just that, like the Wild West preacher who keeps accidentally wandering into Fannie Porter’s house of ill repute, Corbyn has an odd knack for stumbling into the arms of the Hebraically disinclined.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite.html

    Looking for lost souls perhaps?

    Is Hebraically actually a word?
    My OED says it is a word, an adverb.
    Never come across it before. Like the ending of that piece though:

    "The election of Donald Trump has caused waves of justified fear about the unique threat he poses to civil liberties in the free world. Yet Jeremy Corbyn may be the next prime minister of Britain, much to the delight of progressives on both sides of the Atlantic. What happens now will be a test for the global left: If it is willing to let Corbyn off the hook, it can have no honest case against Trump. No claim to moral respect, either."
    Just what is 'the global left' ?
    FWIW, I might loosely describe myself as a 'progressive' (I'd certainly vote Democrat in the US), and I have only contempt for both men.
    I'd vote democrat too, but I don't really know what progressive means, or if it means the same thing on both sides of the Atlantic. There was a party called the progressive Conservatives in Canada for crying out loud.

    My general impression is that progressive is a euphemisn for 'good' since you might conservatives here being relatively liberal in the usa, so people on left or right over here should be wary if assuming the left or right over there are their brethren.

    Mr. Eagles, just the kind of nonsense I should expect from a scallywag such as yourself. Good day, sir!

    Mr. F, ah, yes, I remember you et al. suggesting that before. I'll have a browse (if there's a short story collection I might be able to get that and another book).

    Edited extra bit: The Last Wish seems to fit the bill. (Annoyingly, but for anyone else who might want it, it's under £3 (paperback) on Amazon).

    David Reich's Who We Are And How We Go Here ought to appeal to your interest in very old history, Mr.D.
    It's also excellent.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Speaking of Bristol and daft far leftwingery:
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/980739661869015041

    The motion has not yet been carried.

    The test is if it is approved.
    There's also the second motion, less focused on Debbonaire, but still more worried about the party being damaged than any actual substance of accusation.
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    Alan Pardew leaves West Brom

    If they are quick Mark Hughes might be available in a few days and that might allow him to claim a unique hat-trick!!!!
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    If you take Jeremy Corbyn at his word, then the leader of Britain’s Labour Party is no anti-Semite. It’s just that, like the Wild West preacher who keeps accidentally wandering into Fannie Porter’s house of ill repute, Corbyn has an odd knack for stumbling into the arms of the Hebraically disinclined.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite.html

    Looking for lost souls perhaps?

    Is Hebraically actually a word?
    My OED says it is a word, an adverb.
    Never come across it before. Like the ending of that piece though:

    "The election of Donald Trump has caused waves of justified fear about the unique threat he poses to civil liberties in the free world. Yet Jeremy Corbyn may be the next prime minister of Britain, much to the delight of progressives on both sides of the Atlantic. What happens now will be a test for the global left: If it is willing to let Corbyn off the hook, it can have no honest case against Trump. No claim to moral respect, either."
    Just what is 'the global left' ?
    FWIW, I might loosely describe myself as a 'progressive' (I'd certainly vote Democrat in the US), and I have only contempt for both men.
    I'd vote democrat too, but I don't really know what progressive means, or if it means the same thing on both sides of the Atlantic. There was a party called the progressive Conservatives in Canada for crying out loud.

    My general impression is that progressive is a euphemisn for 'good' since you might conservatives here being relatively liberal in the usa, so people on left or right over here should be wary if assuming the left or right over there are their brethren.

    Mr. Eagles, just the kind of nonsense I should expect from a scallywag such as yourself. Good day, sir!

    Mr. F, ah, yes, I remember you et al. suggesting that before. I'll have a browse (if there's a short story collection I might be able to get that and another book).

    Edited extra bit: The Last Wish seems to fit the bill. (Annoyingly, but for anyone else who might want it, it's under £3 (paperback) on Amazon).

    David Reich's Who We Are And How We Go Here ought to appeal to your interest in very old history, Mr.D.
    It's also excellent.
    I like that those are separate points. It matches your interests. Also, it happens to be good. :)
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    Speaking of Bristol and daft far leftwingery:
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/980739661869015041

    The motion has not yet been carried.

    The test is if it is approved.
    The mere fact it has been proposed means the motion has now hit the fan...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,666

    Mortimer said:

    Shows to binge watch

    Lucifer, Suits, Billions, Westworld, Man in the High Castle, Pretty Little Liars, Britannia, The Good Doctor, Babylon Berlin, The Blacklist.

    Note, Westworld has to be watched without distraction, there are such little nuances you might miss.

    Is babylon Berlin available to stream? I keep hearing it mentioned!
    Its excellent! Brings Weimar Germany vividly to life - and stunning production values - lets hope they go beyond two series.
    We agree on something.

    Apart from all the other good stuff, I like the way they kept away from the Nazis until the end of series 2.
    Yes - it would be very easy to lay on 'foresight' with a trowel - but its making the point that Weimar was chaotic and violent from both Left and Right
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited April 2018
    Mr. kle4, I have really vague memories of seeing it when I was reading the excellent 8-Bit Theater. Damned good stuff.

    Mr. Evershed, good point.

    Currently wrestling with trying to get free delivery, which may be impossible [free for £20 plus but my card is for exactly £20... I could exceed the limit, of course. But that means paying]. The agony of shopping for books :p

    Edited extra bit: Mr. B, cheers for the suggestion. It'd consume all the funds on the card, though.

    Leaning towards getting The Last Wish (Witcher book), a Norse myths book, and Mortimer's Guide to Restoration Britain, although that is over the limit. Hmm. Either have to chuck the Norse book or pay.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,666
    I wonder how deeply buried next week's Observer retraction clarification will be buried?

    https://order-order.com/2018/04/02/yesterdays-cadwalladr-claims-untrue-too/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
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    Mr. kle4, I have really vague memories of seeing it when I was reading the excellent 8-Bit Theater. Damned good stuff.

    Mr. Evershed, good point.

    Currently wrestling with trying to get free delivery, which may be impossible [free for £20 plus but my card is for exactly £20... I could exceed the limit, of course. But that means paying]. The agony of shopping for books :p

    Can't you use your gift card in store?
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    Alan Pardew leaves West Brom

    If they are quick Mark Hughes might be available in a few days and that might allow him to claim a unique hat-trick!!!!
    I reckon Sparky might be in a shout for the Spurs job this summer as Poch does one and goes to Chelsea/PSG/Real.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,936
    rkrkrk said:

    tlg86 said:

    houndtang said:

    Labours travails would be almost funny if these clowns hadn't got - and continue to poll - a still unbelievable 40% of the vote last year.

    That's how bad the Tories are. They cannot be ensured of a majority even when faced with an institutionally anti-Semitic party nostalgic for the 1970s, led by a quasi-Marxist who backs any murderous regime or cause as long as it is anti-US, anti-UK or anti-Israel. God help us!!

    Nah, it shows how bad the people who would still vote Labour are.

    In which case we're still buggered as they are nearly half the country. But I am a bit more generous than you. I think a lot of voters see a Tory party led by incompetents who have no interest in anything except personal advancement, who merrily dogwhistle to get the votes of racists, xenophobes and bigots, who are nostalgic for a time that has gone and will never come again and who have no idea how to tackle the country's problems. They choose to vote against such a party.
    In that case - why would those people not vote for the Lib Dems? Or the Greens?
    The Lib Dems lost seats to Labour last time as well.

    To me it's obvious - the people voting Labour don't believe Corbyn is anti-semitic or that he supports murderous regimes.

    The alternative is that 40% of the country likes anti-semitism and murderous dictatorships.

    If your priority is to prevent a Tory government Labour is your only choice in almost all of England and much of Wales. I don’t believe Corbyn is anti-Semitic. It’s more that he has never repudiated the anti-Semites he has actively campaigned with for decades and now that he is in charge they are swarming into the Labour party, emboldened and gunning for power. Most voters don’t see this because, quite understandably, they are not paying attention. Enough do, though, to ensure Labour will never win with him as leader.

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    Anyone else think Poch is overrated.

    Never won a trophy, and heck even Juande Ramos won a trophy as Spurs manager.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948

    malcolmg said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Well, quite.

    Off-topic: got a small amount to spend from a Christmas Waterstones card. If I had a thousand pounds I'd be able to buy all the things I want... as an aside, astounded by the absolute predominance of WWII in the Military History section. Must be 95% from the last century (in bestseller's).

    I am open to suggestions, incidentally, if anyone has particularly fantastic books they've enjoyed.

    MD , my favourite ever book is Kidnapped and its follow up Catriona. From history types , The Civil War: A Narrative By Shelby Foote , a Trilogy is brilliant and Wellington: The Iron Duke by Richard Holmes is also excellent.
    A very personal one is Mountain and flood: The history of the 52nd (Lowland) Division, 1939-1946 by George Blake. My father fought in this division as member of the 4/5th Royal Scots Fusiliers. They spent 2 years doing mountain training but never got to fight in the mountains.
    I absolutely adored Kidnapped as a child. We went on a family holiday and my late Dad used to read us a chapter every night. I could not wait to get to bed! This generation has so much more with the internet and social media but they miss a lot too. I look back on those times with great fondness.
    For sure David, I used to read books constantly , far superior to any of the stuff they have nowadays, fired the imagination. I still read Kidnapped every so many years. I have always promised myself a first edition , so will indulge myself this year. Treasure Island was another one that was great as a child.
    I read them as a kid then went through a Tusitala edition of his collected works (32 volumes from memory) when I worked in a secondhand bookshop, lots of good stuff there; The Master of Ballantrae was a favourite from that period. I'll buy a set at some point and do it all over again.
    I have master of Ballantrae but not read it. I need to stop spending time on computer and get back to reading books, been very poor recently. Just reading Korean war at moment and have a trio of books on the Jacobite Risings recommended by Jack waiting.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745
    edited April 2018

    Anyone else think Poch is overrated.

    Never won a trophy, and heck even Juande Ramos won a trophy as Spurs manager.

    He's turned them into a team that has come pretty close to winning the league, and regular champions league contenders, without, as far as I know, too much money. He's seems good, be interesting to see what would happen if he has a few more years.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    28 years of hurt ends and my phone dies when I'm away from home...

    HOORAR!!

    Burnley to finish above Arsenal and Chelsea???

    Profitable day, would have been even more profitable if the referee had sent off a Spurs, two at least deserved red cards.

    Given the referee performances this weekend, especially from Andre Marriner and Neil Swarbrick, is anyone else shocked that for the first time in 80 years no Englishman will be a referee at the world cup?
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/04/01/tottenham-would-have-reduced-nine-men-var/
    Former ref Keith Hackett said there would have been two red cards if VAR was in play.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Rexel56 said:

    Good Girls Revolt on Prime also a nostalgic look back at office life; in this case a 1970s New York magazine publisher... trigger warning though, it’s theme is sex discrimination - sobering thought that one is old enough to remember smoke filled meeting rooms, typewriters and having ones own secretary who took shorthand and made tea...

    I loved that series
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited April 2018
    Mr. Eagles, yes, but a bus there and back is (I think) a little over a fiver now, so it's a false economy compared to postage (it's the main reason I don't shop in person. I'd like to support actual brick-and-mortar stores, but there's literally one book shop (I use the term very loosely) within walking distance of my house, and it's a small WH Smith with less than stellar range.

    Edited extra bit: aren't you all thrilled by Morris Dancer's gritty quibbles over a fiver for bus fare or £3.75 for P&P? Keeping it real, after Mr. T's salubrious sojourns and six figure book deals ;)
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948

    Alan Pardew leaves West Brom

    Shows the state of Premier league in that he constantly gets new jobs , despite being consistently proven to be unable to manage anything. He just goes from club to club.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948

    Mr. kle4, I have really vague memories of seeing it when I was reading the excellent 8-Bit Theater. Damned good stuff.

    Mr. Evershed, good point.

    Currently wrestling with trying to get free delivery, which may be impossible [free for £20 plus but my card is for exactly £20... I could exceed the limit, of course. But that means paying]. The agony of shopping for books :p

    Edited extra bit: Mr. B, cheers for the suggestion. It'd consume all the funds on the card, though.

    Leaning towards getting The Last Wish (Witcher book), a Norse myths book, and Mortimer's Guide to Restoration Britain, although that is over the limit. Hmm. Either have to chuck the Norse book or pay.

    splash out , you know it is worth it
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Mr. Eagles, my main concrete concern is the rumoured desire of Charles to change Defender of the Faith to Defender of Faith, which is utterly idiotic and unnecessary.

    Indeed you are right.

    Both titles are absurd and should be dropped entirely.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948

    Mr. Eagles, yes, but a bus there and back is (I think) a little over a fiver now, so it's a false economy compared to postage (it's the main reason I don't shop in person. I'd like to support actual brick-and-mortar stores, but there's literally one book shop (I use the term very loosely) within walking distance of my house, and it's a small WH Smith with less than stellar range.

    Edited extra bit: aren't you all thrilled by Morris Dancer's gritty quibbles over a fiver for bus fare or £3.75 for P&P? Keeping it real, after Mr. T's salubrious sojourns and six figure book deals ;)

    surely they could order books for you MD
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    Alan Pardew leaves West Brom

    about time.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    Eddie Izzard's appointment to the NEC will give an opportunity for those posting anti-semitic messages online to post transphobic messages instead.

    Real progress.

    Izzard is an utter joke.

    makes sense for Labour to promote him
    It just highlights the estate labour is in , if someone had made it up for a TV Series people would have thought it crap. Just imagine Izzard as a cabinet minister.
    It does indeed Malc

    Hope you are keeping well.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    ydoethur said:

    Speaking of Bristol and daft far leftwingery:
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/980739661869015041

    The motion has not yet been carried.

    The test is if it is approved.
    The mere fact it has been proposed means the motion has now hit the fan...
    If Debbonaire gets censured for attending a march against antisemitism, that might just be what’s required for the PLP to think seriously about their options.

    Corbyn, of course, will continue to insist that it’s nothing to do with him and that PLPs are free to act as they see fit.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,984
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    If you take Jeremy Corbyn at his word, then the leader of Britain’s Labour Party is no anti-Semite. It’s just that, like the Wild West preacher who keeps accidentally wandering into Fannie Porter’s house of ill repute, Corbyn has an odd knack for stumbling into the arms of the Hebraically disinclined.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite.html

    Looking for lost souls perhaps?

    Is Hebraically actually a word?
    My OED says it is a word, an adverb.
    Never come across it before. Like the ending of that piece though:

    "The election of Donald Trump has caused waves of justified fear about the unique threat he poses to civil liberties in the free world. Yet Jeremy Corbyn may be the next prime minister of Britain, much to the delight of progressives on both sides of the Atlantic. What happens now will be a test for the global left: If it is willing to let Corbyn off the hook, it can have no honest case against Trump. No claim to moral respect, either."
    Just what is 'the global left' ?
    FWIW, I might loosely describe myself as a 'progressive' (I'd certainly vote Democrat in the US), and I have only contempt for both men.
    I'd vote democrat too, but I don't really know what progressive means, or if it means the same thing on both sides of the Atlantic. There was a party called the progressive Conservatives in Canada for crying out loud.

    My general impression is that progressive is a euphemisn for 'good' since you might conservatives here being relatively liberal in the usa, so people on left or right over here should be wary if assuming the left or right over there are their brethren.

    Mr. Eagles, just the kind of nonsense I should expect from a scallywag such as yourself. Good day, sir!

    Mr. F, ah, yes, I remember you et al. suggesting that before. I'll have a browse (if there's a short story collection I might be able to get that and another book).

    Edited extra bit: The Last Wish seems to fit the bill. (Annoyingly, but for anyone else who might want it, it's under £3 (paperback) on Amazon).

    David Reich's Who We Are And How We Go Here ought to appeal to your interest in very old history, Mr.D.
    It's also excellent.
    I like that those are separate points. It matches your interests. Also, it happens to be good. :)
    Review of Reich’s book in the Guardian on Saturday has inspired me to seek it out. Such books demonstrate the small mindedness of xenophobia and racism.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    28 years of hurt ends and my phone dies when I'm away from home...

    HOORAR!!

    Burnley to finish above Arsenal and Chelsea???

    Profitable day, would have been even more profitable if the referee had sent off a Spurs, two at least deserved red cards.

    Given the referee performances this weekend, especially from Andre Marriner and Neil Swarbrick, is anyone else shocked that for the first time in 80 years no Englishman will be a referee at the world cup?
    That's not the reason why we haven't got a ref at the World Cup. It's because FIFA is a prizes for everyone type of organisation. Here's the list of refs:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_officials

    How many of those have experience of using VAR?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. G, if that second Haas screw-up hadn't happened, I'd be keener to do so. If, as I suspect, it would also have led to Raikkonen getting fastest lap (he was second to Ricciardo who only got it because of the safety car closing up the field) and a 15 winner. *sighs*

    Does indicate how big a role luck plays in F1. I was down two stakes, could've been up almost 17. Not that I've been thinking about it. ....

    Damn you, cross-threaded wheel nuts!

    Looking ahead to Bahrain, I'm not sure who I think will be fastest. The nature of the last race makes it quite difficult to tell.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948
    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    Eddie Izzard's appointment to the NEC will give an opportunity for those posting anti-semitic messages online to post transphobic messages instead.

    Real progress.

    Izzard is an utter joke.

    makes sense for Labour to promote him
    It just highlights the estate labour is in , if someone had made it up for a TV Series people would have thought it crap. Just imagine Izzard as a cabinet minister.
    It does indeed Malc

    Hope you are keeping well.
    Floater , yes thanks, I am very well and hope you are too. Weather not so hot , grey and very windy but at least cosy inside and enjoying the holiday weekend.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    Meanwhile in Bristol:

    "Bristol West MP Thangam Debbonaire has said she is ‘just sad’ after she faced being summoned by her own party members to ‘explain herself’ as Labour’s bitter civil war over antisemitism arrived in the city."

    https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/bristol-mp-faces-censure-motion-1406909

    They are fecked aren't they?

    No. They are at 40% in the polls and, at worst, in with a shout of winning the next election.
    I meant morally.

    I do appreciate that to some people they will vote for their party irrespective of what it does or does not do.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,282

    Alan Pardew leaves West Brom

    about time.
    Strange appointment. Tony Pulis's powers of levitation were much underestimated but even he could not take the strain forever.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Mr. Eagles, my main concrete concern is the rumoured desire of Charles to change Defender of the Faith to Defender of Faith, which is utterly idiotic and unnecessary.

    It might seem idiotic and unnecessary. But the test is that you just have to believe in it.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    If your priority is to prevent a Tory government Labour is your only choice in almost all of England and much of Wales. I don’t believe Corbyn is anti-Semitic. It’s more that he has never repudiated the anti-Semites he has actively campaigned with for decades and now that he is in charge they are swarming into the Labour party, emboldened and gunning for power. Most voters don’t see this because, quite understandably, they are not paying attention. Enough do, though, to ensure Labour will never win with him as leader.

    I would have agreed with you on Corbyn's anti-semitism or lack thereof until recently even after he lied about his work with Paul Eisen. After all, he is not very intelligent and he is quite capable of making mistakes through naivety as much as malice.

    That defence comes to pieces over his comment on that mural. He clearly, deliberately supported the right of an anti-Semite to freedom of expression (which is allowed)on the basis that the Jews went round suppressing it (which is clearly prejudiced bollocks).

    He has a problem. It may not be serious, or even deliberate - it may be like Johnson's reflexive and unthinking racism in his journalism - but it's there. And that means he cannot with any moral authority criticise anyone else with racist views, including the very large number crawling it if the woodwork in Labour.

    The thread header is right - he has to go if Labour are to deal with the problem. But if he won't go for lying over his links to the Iranian government, or his support for the IRA or Hamas, or his wilful blindness to child sexual abuse in Islington, he won't go over this.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,590
    .

    Mr. kle4, I have really vague memories of seeing it when I was reading the excellent 8-Bit Theater. Damned good stuff.

    Mr. Evershed, good point.

    Currently wrestling with trying to get free delivery, which may be impossible [free for £20 plus but my card is for exactly £20... I could exceed the limit, of course. But that means paying]. The agony of shopping for books :p

    Edited extra bit: Mr. B, cheers for the suggestion. It'd consume all the funds on the card, though...

    Probably worth waiting a bit until it paperbacks/starts getting discounted - which is my usual practice, but I made an exception in this case.
    Bookmark it, though; I think you'll enjoy it.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,590
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    If you take Jeremy Corbyn at his word, then the leader of Britain’s Labour Party is no anti-Semite. It’s just that, like the Wild West preacher who keeps accidentally wandering into Fannie Porter’s house of ill repute, Corbyn has an odd knack for stumbling into the arms of the Hebraically disinclined.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite.html

    Looking for lost souls perhaps?

    Is Hebraically actually a word?
    My OED says it is a word, an adverb.
    Never come across it before. Like the ending of that piece though:

    "The election of Donald Trump has caused waves of justified fear about the unique threat he poses to civil liberties in the free world. Yet Jeremy Corbyn may be the next prime minister of Britain, much to the delight of progressives on both sides of the Atlantic. What happens now will be a test for the global left: If it is willing to let Corbyn off the hook, it can have no honest case against Trump. No claim to moral respect, either."
    Just what is 'the global left' ?
    FWIW, I might loosely describe myself as a 'progressive' (I'd certainly vote Democrat in the US), and I have only contempt for both men.
    I'd vote democrat too, but I don't really know what progressive means, or if it means the same thing on both sides of the Atlantic. There was a party called the progressive Conservatives in Canada for crying out loud.

    My general impression is that progressive is a euphemisn for 'good' since you might conservatives here being relatively liberal in the usa, so people on left or right over here should be wary if assuming the left or right over there are their brethren.

    Mr. Eagles, just the kind of nonsense I should expect from a scallywag such as yourself. Good day, sir!

    Mr. F, ah, yes, I remember you et al. suggesting that before. I'll have a browse (if there's a short story collection I might be able to get that and another book).

    Edited extra bit: The Last Wish seems to fit the bill. (Annoyingly, but for anyone else who might want it, it's under £3 (paperback) on Amazon).

    David Reich's Who We Are And How We Go Here ought to appeal to your interest in very old history, Mr.D.
    It's also excellent.
    I like that those are separate points. It matches your interests. Also, it happens to be good. :)
    Something a lot of recommendations fail to get....
    :smile:
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232
    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    Eddie Izzard's appointment to the NEC will give an opportunity for those posting anti-semitic messages online to post transphobic messages instead.

    Real progress.

    Izzard is an utter joke.

    makes sense for Labour to promote him
    It just highlights the estate labour is in , if someone had made it up for a TV Series people would have thought it crap. Just imagine Izzard as a cabinet minister.
    It does indeed Malc

    Hope you are keeping well.
    Floater , yes thanks, I am very well and hope you are too. Weather not so hot , grey and very windy but at least cosy inside and enjoying the holiday weekend.
    I do hope the turnip harvest is not affected. Being hit by a beetroot just isn't the same...
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. B, a sound suggestion. When I got Contamine's and Allmand's book on the Hundred Years War, I saved a significant sum going second hand (it may astound you to learn that that Contamine rather over-estimated the value of heavy cavalry against archers. Not the first time a Frenchman has made such a mistake).
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,948
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    malcolmg said:

    Floater said:

    Eddie Izzard's appointment to the NEC will give an opportunity for those posting anti-semitic messages online to post transphobic messages instead.

    Real progress.

    Izzard is an utter joke.

    makes sense for Labour to promote him
    It just highlights the estate labour is in , if someone had made it up for a TV Series people would have thought it crap. Just imagine Izzard as a cabinet minister.
    It does indeed Malc

    Hope you are keeping well.
    Floater , yes thanks, I am very well and hope you are too. Weather not so hot , grey and very windy but at least cosy inside and enjoying the holiday weekend.
    I do hope the turnip harvest is not affected. Being hit by a beetroot just isn't the same...
    LOL ........... superb ydoethur
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. Doethur, you could always hire an enormo-haddock. They're always ready to thrash someone around the head and neck.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,590
    Anazina said:

    Mr. Eagles, my main concrete concern is the rumoured desire of Charles to change Defender of the Faith to Defender of Faith, which is utterly idiotic and unnecessary.

    Indeed you are right.

    Both titles are absurd and should be dropped entirely.
    He might more fairly be titled Inadvertant Encourager of Scepticism.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. B, that reminds me of the end of Blackadder III.

    Dying prince: "I hope men say of me that I did duty by my country."
    Blackadder: "I think that's rather unlikely, sir. Perhaps you'd better hope for something a bit more realistic."
    Dying prince: "Such as?"
    Blackadder: "You hope that men will think of you as a bit of a thicky?"
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Mr. Eagles, yes, but a bus there and back is (I think) a little over a fiver now, so it's a false economy compared to postage (it's the main reason I don't shop in person. I'd like to support actual brick-and-mortar stores, but there's literally one book shop (I use the term very loosely) within walking distance of my house, and it's a small WH Smith with less than stellar range.

    Edited extra bit: aren't you all thrilled by Morris Dancer's gritty quibbles over a fiver for bus fare or £3.75 for P&P? Keeping it real, after Mr. T's salubrious sojourns and six figure book deals ;)

    www.hive.co.uk allows you to buy books online and support local bookstores.
    They also pay their taxes and are often competitive with the likes of Amazon on price.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Sean_F said:

    Well, quite.

    Off-topic: got a small amount to spend from a Christmas Waterstones card. If I had a thousand pounds I'd be able to buy all the things I want... as an aside, astounded by the absolute predominance of WWII in the Military History section. Must be 95% from the last century (in bestseller's).

    I am open to suggestions, incidentally, if anyone has particularly fantastic books they've enjoyed.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/rebel-prince/tom-bower/9780008291730
    Oh yes. The review in The Times was hilarious.

    Screaming "what is this plastic?" when sandwiches were produced covered in cellophane; hiring people to remove slugs by night from his garden; bringing his own lavatory seat when staying with other people; taking 43 pieces of luggage to a religious retreat. This is our future king.
    Do any other members of the Royal Family behave in such a manner ?

    I think my favourite was 'four gardeners who “lie flat, nose down on a trailer” to hand pluck weeds, because of the prince’s hatred of pesticides'.
    Why would you weed like that? Most do it on their hands and knees with a small basket.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    tlg86 said:

    28 years of hurt ends and my phone dies when I'm away from home...

    HOORAR!!

    Burnley to finish above Arsenal and Chelsea???

    Profitable day, would have been even more profitable if the referee had sent off a Spurs, two at least deserved red cards.

    Given the referee performances this weekend, especially from Andre Marriner and Neil Swarbrick, is anyone else shocked that for the first time in 80 years no Englishman will be a referee at the world cup?
    That's not the reason why we haven't got a ref at the World Cup. It's because FIFA is a prizes for everyone type of organisation. Here's the list of refs:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_FIFA_World_Cup_officials

    How many of those have experience of using VAR?
    Clattenburg would have been selected by FIFA (according to ref who was on the wireless the other day), but he took the oil money and isn't an active ref anymore.
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    Anyone else think Poch is overrated.

    Never won a trophy, and heck even Juande Ramos won a trophy as Spurs manager.

    Don't panic, we're not above Liverpool.


    Yet.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,666
    I'm not sure this works the way the authors intend. Pointing out a long list of Tory councillors suspended because of racism doesn't paint the Tories in a worse light than Labour....

    https://evolvepolitics.com/a-massive-36-tweet-thread-exposing-the-extraordinary-scale-of-tory-racism-and-abuse-is-going-viral-for-very-obvious-reasons/
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    DavidL said:

    Mr. kle4, isn't Bristol a very Green city? If so, it'd suggest there's a strong pool of far left persons who may be swayed by daft ideas.

    Mr. Eagles, cheers for that answer (as you may've gathered, this isn't my area). Not a single BBC series amongst them...

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Eagles, buying the biography of a living person is not something I would do (except as a present for another).

    It is very useful to know about the man who will soon be ruling us.

    If he can betray his wife, what's to stop him from betraying us?
    Corbyn will never be PM.

    Oh, you meant Charles?
    Here's a thought.

    In a few years we might be living under King Charles III and Prime Minister Corbyn.
    George VII
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,612

    Speaking of Bristol and daft far leftwingery:
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/980739661869015041

    The motion has not yet been carried.

    The test is if it is approved.
    For the motion to reach CLP it must have been approved at Branch. Now there may only have been 4 people at the branch meeting where it was approved, but this gives an indication of where Bristol activists are coming from.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758


    Charles has always had an aura of otherworldly weirdness about him.

    I love you too, @another_richard
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896
    edited April 2018

    I wonder how deeply buried next week's Observer retraction clarification will be buried?

    https://order-order.com/2018/04/02/yesterdays-cadwalladr-claims-untrue-too/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    They’re losing all sense of journalistic integrity in their determination to push this story, not double sourcing and not verifying basic facts, so desperate are they to find any way to overturn the referendum.

    Cadwalladr apologising to Guido this morning for getting facts wrong is hillarious.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,232

    Speaking of Bristol and daft far leftwingery:
    https://twitter.com/JBickertonUK/status/980739661869015041

    The motion has not yet been carried.

    The test is if it is approved.
    For the motion to reach CLP it must have been approved at Branch. Now there may only have been 4 people at the branch meeting where it was approved, but this gives an indication of where Bristol activists are coming from.
    Mostly Clifton in my experience.

    The people of Bradley Stoke and Fishponds are too poor to afford Corbyn's policies, and the ones in St George's don't vote.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited April 2018
    Mr. rkrkrk, cheers, never heard of them before (did see a recent tweet about the new Independent Bookstore Alliance, which sounds like a positive development).

    Mr. Sandpit, I think the Observer was behind the fake news that happened when Twitter wet itself over Conservatives apparently not thinking animals were sentient, due to some significantly poor reporting.

    Edited extra bit: ordered those books, incidentally, so this epic adventure of modern day browsing has ended.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,076
    Charles said:

    Sean_F said:

    Well, quite.

    Off-topic: got a small amount to spend from a Christmas Waterstones card. If I had a thousand pounds I'd be able to buy all the things I want... as an aside, astounded by the absolute predominance of WWII in the Military History section. Must be 95% from the last century (in bestseller's).

    I am open to suggestions, incidentally, if anyone has particularly fantastic books they've enjoyed.

    https://www.waterstones.com/book/rebel-prince/tom-bower/9780008291730
    Oh yes. The review in The Times was hilarious.

    Screaming "what is this plastic?" when sandwiches were produced covered in cellophane; hiring people to remove slugs by night from his garden; bringing his own lavatory seat when staying with other people; taking 43 pieces of luggage to a religious retreat. This is our future king.
    Do any other members of the Royal Family behave in such a manner ?

    I think my favourite was 'four gardeners who “lie flat, nose down on a trailer” to hand pluck weeds, because of the prince’s hatred of pesticides'.
    Why would you weed like that? Most do it on their hands and knees with a small basket.
    Perhaps the proles are not permitted to walk on Charles's lawn.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,896

    I'm not sure this works the way the authors intend. Pointing out a long list of Tory councillors suspended because of racism doesn't paint the Tories in a worse light than Labour....

    https://evolvepolitics.com/a-massive-36-tweet-thread-exposing-the-extraordinary-scale-of-tory-racism-and-abuse-is-going-viral-for-very-obvious-reasons/

    Those “very obvious reasons” being that they’re desperate to detract from their own party’s problems?

    All organisations have issues with idiots joining them, the key test is how they react to it. Every party needs to make sure their council candidates for May’s election get externally vetted ASAP, unless they enjoy being on the front pages.
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    Anyone else think Poch is overrated.

    Never won a trophy, and heck even Juande Ramos won a trophy as Spurs manager.

    Don't panic, we're not above Liverpool.


    Yet.
    ICYMI last night.

    Check out the replies under this thread.

    https://twitter.com/chrisapplegate/status/980494516103901184

    My two faves

    https://twitter.com/_dogden/status/980505295947526144
    https://twitter.com/Ianiesta8/status/980513611222343682
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,590

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    If you take Jeremy Corbyn at his word, then the leader of Britain’s Labour Party is no anti-Semite. It’s just that, like the Wild West preacher who keeps accidentally wandering into Fannie Porter’s house of ill repute, Corbyn has an odd knack for stumbling into the arms of the Hebraically disinclined.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/29/opinion/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite.html

    Looking for lost souls perhaps?

    Is Hebraically actually a word?
    My OED says it is a word, an adverb.
    Never come across it before. Like the ending of that piece though:

    "The election of Donald Trump has caused waves of justified fear about the unique threat he poses to civil liberties in the free world. Yet Jeremy Corbyn may be the next prime minister of Britain, much to the delight of progressives on both sides of the Atlantic. What happens now will be a test for the global left: If it is willing to let Corbyn off the hook, it can have no honest case against Trump. No claim to moral respect, either."
    Interesting point.
    Presumably the copy editor has now been sacked. Colon followed by capital letter. O tempora, o mores. In the NYT of all places.
    They'll never outdo the New Yorker for crimes against the English language.

    https://twitter.com/mikecolton/status/884843351479992321?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-correct-punctuation-of-donald-trump-jrs-name

    Edit - This is the New Yorker defending their crime.

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-correct-punctuation-of-donald-trump-jrs-name
    And yet you overlooked the obvious howler in the thread header.

    I though the New Yorker thing was just a novel emoji...
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,350
    ydoethur said:

    If your priority is to prevent a Tory government Labour is your only choice in almost all of England and much of Wales. I don’t believe Corbyn is anti-Semitic. It’s more that he has never repudiated the anti-Semites he has actively campaigned with for decades and now that he is in charge they are swarming into the Labour party, emboldened and gunning for power. Most voters don’t see this because, quite understandably, they are not paying attention. Enough do, though, to ensure Labour will never win with him as leader.

    I would have agreed with you on Corbyn's anti-semitism or lack thereof until recently even after he lied about his work with Paul Eisen. After all, he is not very intelligent and he is quite capable of making mistakes through naivety as much as malice.

    That defence comes to pieces over his comment on that mural. He clearly, deliberately supported the right of an anti-Semite to freedom of expression (which is allowed)on the basis that the Jews went round suppressing it (which is clearly prejudiced bollocks).

    He has a problem. It may not be serious, or even deliberate - it may be like Johnson's reflexive and unthinking racism in his journalism - but it's there. And that means he cannot with any moral authority criticise anyone else with racist views, including the very large number crawling it if the woodwork in Labour.

    The thread header is right - he has to go if Labour are to deal with the problem. But if he won't go for lying over his links to the Iranian government, or his support for the IRA or Hamas, or his wilful blindness to child sexual abuse in Islington, he won't go over this.
    It's right that he totally is the problem - whether or not it's wilful blindness or not - his past, and the excuses he's given for it sets an example as to what's acceptable that these racists are following - and what they can dismiss as a smear when called on it. It's the biggest disgrace in Labour's history, but God knows how it's brought to an end.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    edited April 2018
    Mr. Eagles, this is nice*:
    https://twitter.com/jnickelson15/status/980508790306074624

    Edited extra bit: ahem. *not very
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,745

    Mr. Eagles, this is nice*:
    https://twitter.com/jnickelson15/status/980508790306074624

    Edited extra bit: ahem. *not very

    A relative of mine swears they know that chap, and that he lives not 5 minutes from me.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,983
    Mr. kle4, well, if he's from Mordor your relative must live in Lancashire.
This discussion has been closed.