Not all Labour supporters fit the profile of the truest believers, but there is a phenomenal capacity among the hardcore for projecting absolute virtue on to the leader and unalloyed wickedness on to his detractors. The most common defence of Corbyn is that his critics are “smearing” him – a formula that rejects even the possibility that he is at fault. In this political cosmology, it makes no more sense to ask why someone might think Corbyn unsuitable to be prime minister than to ask why Darth Vader wants to control the galaxy. The Force has a dark side and a light side. That’s all you need to know.
So its now Anti Semitic to meet with Jewish Socialists to celebrate Passover.
Jews who criticise Israel are Anti Semitic now are they.
Just proves Socialism rather than Anti Semitism is the problem.
As if we didn't already know that.
This is the fourth time a Corbynista in this thread has pushed this stupid strawman argument. Is it being sent out in Momentum talking points?
No, no-one says it is anti-Semitic to meet with Jewdas. It is, however, a clear signal that he's not serious about addressing the concerns of those worried about anti-Semitism.
Maybe this is the argument Jeremy wanted to have?
Every time I think I'm getting over it, the far left do something new to make me despair about how much these bastards have hijacked the great British Labour Party for the ends of their ugly cult.
Yes, that's the problem. I agree (amazingly) with Roger that perceived mild anti-Semitism per se won't swing many votes. A lot of Brits on left and right - if they care at all - find Israel's behaviour quite repugnant. They have yet to notice that outright anti-Semitism. i.e. hatred of Jews not just dislike of Netanyahu's government (cf the appalling recent murders in France) IS becoming a serious problem.
Eventually the Brits will maybe notice and then this could be a very damaging issue for Labour. Especially if Labour are consequently seen as siding with radical Islam which is VERY unpopular in the UK.
For now, the more pressing problem is the idea that Labour has been taken over by cranks, weirdos, obsessives and demented old fools (not least, one Jeremy Corbyn). It's the image of chaos, freakishness and eccentricity which is more damaging to the party. They all look a bit mad. Not least cause thousands of them are. Sure, the party has a huge membership, but half of them are borderline schizo and announce it loudly on Twitter. Not great.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Just as the Cons with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. We're stuck in shitty aspic for the foreseeable future.
Should we be voting for governments on the basis of the party leader personalities or on the party policies and ability to implement the policies?
It's Easter hols and I am taking my eldest daughter down to Devon to see her best friend. We're staying at Boringdon Hall which I thoroughly recommend. Nice restaurant, amazing spa, beautiful echt Elizabethan interior, ghosts.
Yes, that's the problem. I agree (amazingly) with Roger that perceived mild anti-Semitism per se won't swing many votes. A lot of Brits on left and right - if they care at all - find Israel's behaviour quite repugnant. They have yet to notice that outright anti-Semitism. i.e. hatred of Jews not just dislike of Netanyahu's government (cf the appalling recent murders in France) IS becoming a serious problem.
For now, the more pressing problem is the idea that Labour has been taken over by cranks, weirdos, obsessives and demented old fools (not least, one Jeremy Corbyn). It's the image of chaos, freakishness and eccentricity which is more damaging to the party. They all look a bit mad. Not least cause thousands of them are. Sure, the party has a huge membership, but half of them are borderline schizo and announce it loudly on Twitter. Not great.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Just as the Cons with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. We're stuck in shitty aspic for the foreseeable future.
A fair point. Nonetheless if an election were held now I think the Tories would win a slim OVERALL majority, and unless Corbyn goes I don't see that changing, indeed I think the prospective Tory majority gets a little bigger as the months pass, and he stays.
What is the Conservative offer to the country going to be at the next election? 2017 showed that Brexit isn't going to be enough and so far that's all the current government has been able to articulate.
I expect I could sketch out Labour's 2022 manifesto now in broad terms and it will be popular.
2022 will be long after official Brexit. By then the Tories will have adopted some policies, one presumes. My guess is it will be watery centrism, wrapped in patriotism. It will be enough to win, IF Labour are still led by Corbyn (or someone as sinister or worse, like McDonnell).
If Labour sensibly depose Corbyn and get a decent leader, and rid themselves of the loons, then all bets are off. The Tories could easily lose.
The Tories need a Blue Labour manifesto. Support for the aspiring working class, economic stability, controlled immigration. Corbyn is particularly exposed on the last two.
If the leader was a regular-seeming professional or ex-soldier, that would help.
The Tories already tried the Blue Labour thing in 2017.
I have run out of popcorn. I have overdosed on popcorn. Can the surrealistic madness of this last week keep going for another week?
Jezbollah should understand that although Jewdas are his friends, and that they are absolutely authentically Jewish, they are not exactly representative of the wider Jewish community who amazingly enough think this is another piss take.
Jeremy had two options yesterday. Put out a tasteful well crafted Passover statement and go to bed, or think "shits and giggs baby" and give the story another few days of legs.
I blame Milne. Shit amateur hour media management? That'll be the Milne.
Sweet and Salted popcorn please. Quickly...
As ever, summed up to perfection.
But can it really be that hard for the others (talking to you @TheJezziah) to see what seems to be so transparently obvious?
Edit: where I do disagree, however, is that this is an error by Milne - he knows exactly what he is doing.
He was invited by a local Jewish group to celebrate a religious event and he did so, he didn't make a song and dance of it*, the photograph was taken without his knowledge. It would have been rude not to go even if there was a risk the papers would have decided it was unacceptable.
He said it was in his personal capacity which makes me think it might not have been Milne, or at least not his suggestion he could have still cleared it. Assuming he isn't lying although I can't really see what difference personal capacity makes or not in this instance.
*I can't actually confirm or deny that the event itself involves singing and/or dancing.
I think we're heading for the formation of a new centrist party because there are enough people who despise both the Tories and Labour but who don't seem to find the LDs an attractive option for whatever reasons.
How could anyone find the perfidious LD's an attractive option.
What are the LDs unfaithful to?
They are lying toerags and will drop principles in a heartbeat, cannot ever be trusted.
Not all Labour supporters fit the profile of the truest believers, but there is a phenomenal capacity among the hardcore for projecting absolute virtue on to the leader and unalloyed wickedness on to his detractors. The most common defence of Corbyn is that his critics are “smearing” him – a formula that rejects even the possibility that he is at fault. In this political cosmology, it makes no more sense to ask why someone might think Corbyn unsuitable to be prime minister than to ask why Darth Vader wants to control the galaxy. The Force has a dark side and a light side. That’s all you need to know.
There is a strain of remainer thinking that has elevated the pro-European cause to a totem of abstract liberal virtue increasingly removed from the messy reality of EU institutions, treaties and competing interests. In this tribe, the whole Brexit concept is contaminated by what is remembered as a devious, dishonest and xenophobic campaign. Someone who believes above all that the referendum result expressed mass credulity and racism will find it hard also to accept that it was a valid democratic verdict.
Why is Sky News correspondent claiming that it’s unfair to compare London an New York murder rates because the NY rate is on the way down? That’s the whole bloody point!
I think we're heading for the formation of a new centrist party because there are enough people who despise both the Tories and Labour but who don't seem to find the LDs an attractive option for whatever reasons.
The new centrist party would then have to merge with the LDs because of lack of infrastructure. Why not go straight to the LDs?
LDs need to go straight to the new centrist party. Their brand is shot to hell.
Yes, that's the problem. I agree (amazingly) with Roger that perceived mild anti-Semitism per se won't swing many votes. A lot of Brits on left and right - if they care at all - find Israel's behaviour quite repugnant. They have yet to notice that outright anti-Semitism. i.e. hatred of Jews not just dislike of Netanyahu's government (cf the appalling recent murders in France) IS becoming a serious problem.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Just as the Cons with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. We're stuck in shitty aspic for the foreseeable future.
A fair point. Nonetheless if an election were held now I think the Tories would win a slim OVERALL majority, and unless Corbyn goes I don't see that changing, indeed I think the prospective Tory majority gets a little bigger as the months pass, and he stays.
What is the Conservative offer to the country going to be at the next election? 2017 showed that Brexit isn't going to be enough and so far that's all the current government has been able to articulate.
I expect I could sketch out Labour's 2022 manifesto now in broad terms and it will be popular.
2022 will be long after official Brexit. By then the Tories will have adopted some policies, one presumes. My guess is it will be watery centrism, wrapped in patriotism. It will be enough to win, IF Labour are still led by Corbyn (or someone as sinister or worse, like McDonnell).
If Labour sensibly depose Corbyn and get a decent leader, and rid themselves of the loons, then all bets are off. The Tories could easily lose.
The Tories need a Blue Labour manifesto. Support for the aspiring working class, economic stability, controlled immigration. Corbyn is particularly exposed on the last two.
If the leader was a regular-seeming professional or ex-soldier, that would help.
The Tories already tried the Blue Labour thing in 2017.
And it was doing very well until they tried to fund social care properly.
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/981092462197465088 Centrists desperately looking for their saviour. That they haven’t moved past it being David Miliband (who has been the touted centrist saviour since 2009) says it all.
British politics needs a saviour this Easter week. Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters think he’s the messiah, but instead of turning water into wine he has swum in the sewer of antisemitism for so long that his party stinks. Theresa May is fulfilling her duty towards Brexit with the saintly devotion of a vicar’s daughter but you can almost see the stigmata of sacrifice on her hands and feet as she enacts a policy she fears will make the country poorer and less safe. Sir Vince Cable, the prophet who predicted the economic crash, looks lost in the wilderness as Liberal Democrat leader.
The centrist mainstream seems dead and buried under a culture of intolerance but it would soon be resurrected if somebody emerged with the strength to roll the stone away from the mouth of the grave.
It's Easter hols and I am taking my eldest daughter down to Devon to see her best friend. We're staying at Boringdon Hall which I thoroughly recommend. Nice restaurant, amazing spa, beautiful echt Elizabethan interior, ghosts.
And all the many delights of Plymouth. No, really. It's a much underrated city. One of the most underrated cities in Europe, in my frankly expert opinion. Sure, parts of it were bombed to fuck in the war, and replaced with Britain's most hideous housing, but there's also amazing history, a medieval core, the RWV Yards (Versailles by the water), nuclear subs, brothels, Devonport, the Cremyll Ferry, the Mayflower, the Hoe, the seafood. And surrounded by gorgeous riverine and moorland countryside.
It's a truly fascinating place.
Add in the Aquarium. And the Fireworks Championship in August...
What is happening in Khan's London with all these murders? He seems to get away with being challanged on this.
In the first three months of last year there were 21 homicides in London, this year there have been 43.
Khan's continued popularity, in the face of this horrible surge in violence (and it's not just the murders, it's the acid attacks, burglaries etc) is astonishing. I think, electorally, he's a cartoon character who has run off a cliff. If this surge doesn't cease, eventually he will look down and whoooooosh.
Maybe, maybe not. We will know Khan is in trouble if he tries to blame Tory police cuts: remember Corbyn silencing the PM (and former axe-wielding Home Secretary) over that. In fact, I'd not be surprised to see a joint mayor/government initiative simply because there is so much blame to go round.
I like Sadiq but he needs to be careful to focus on policing, given some of his reforms. Banning recruits from the home counties, reducing stop and search, allowing people with criminal records to apply etc. He would do better to focus on the social causes of crime and argue for a cooperative, bipartisan approach to solving the problem.
Or a twin track approach: prevention based on the Scottish model (as you suggest) and Elliot Ness attacks on the gang leaders, and keep the focus on BAME victims to get community support (as Diane Abbott has done iirc).
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/981092462197465088 Centrists desperately looking for their saviour. That they haven’t moved past it being David Miliband (who has been the touted centrist saviour since 2009) says it all.
It is odd when Umunna is so much more talented.
Although this does reveal the problem for the moderates. With the Corbyn takeover of selections, they won't get any new talent coming through, as they will be blocked due to ideological impurity.
Is it not about time someone defined `anti-Semitism?` The handful of times I have walked past an Anti-Israel rally I felt the rally`s stank of Anti-Semitism.To read Jewdas claim that they proudly walked on Pro- Palestinian rallies suggests to me that they have built a myopic anti-capitalist bubble around themselves.
This is the international definition which has been adopted by the UK government and various other governments - https://antisemitism.uk/definition/
Interesting but you can see by the spuriousness of the definitions what a hodge-podge it is. 'Saying the Jews killed Christ'. Who gives a f*ck....'Comparing Israeli policies to that of the Nazis' Ridiculous! People compare the policies of Theresa May to the Nazis!.....'Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to the state of Israel than their own'. It's all over the Jewish prayer book. You'd have to prosecute every Jew reading the Haggadah this Passover.
There are currently 250,000 Jews in the UK. Roughly 30% are marrying 'out' (It's double in the US). Within five or six generations there will only be the Ultra Orthodox still in existence and at that time anti Semitism will be much easier to define
I think we're heading for the formation of a new centrist party because there are enough people who despise both the Tories and Labour but who don't seem to find the LDs an attractive option for whatever reasons.
How could anyone find the perfidious LD's an attractive option.
@Elliot Well, it wasn’t just that - it was the whole manifesto which went down terribly, and encourage more people to coalesce around Labour. Tories problem isn’t that there’s no demand for Blue Labour, but that they’ve likely already reached the maximum amount of people that they can attract with such an offer. Just as they are loads of Blue Labour types, there are also those who it doesn’t do much for - which is why Labour ended up getting nearly 40% last year.
Why is Sky News correspondent claiming that it’s unfair to compare London an New York murder rates because the NY rate is on the way down? That’s the whole bloody point!
It's very fair to compare them because they have practically the same population, 8.6 million.
So its now Anti Semitic to meet with Jewish Socialists to celebrate Passover.
Jews who criticise Israel are Anti Semitic now are they.
Just proves Socialism rather than Anti Semitism is the problem.
As if we didn't already know that.
.
Eventually the Brits will maybe notice and then this could be a very damaging issue for Labour. Especially if Labour are consequently seen as siding with radical Islam which is VERY unpopular in the UK.
For now, the more pressing problem is the idea that Labour has been taken over by cranks, weirdos, obsessives and demented old fools (not least, one Jeremy Corbyn). It's the image of chaos, freakishness and eccentricity which is more damaging to the party. They all look a bit mad. Not least cause thousands of them are. Sure, the party has a huge membership, but half of them are borderline schizo and announce it loudly on Twitter. Not great.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Only party in hock to radical Islam is the Tories, historical sponsors of jihadis across Eurasia and Africa and perpetually in hock to the source of 99% of global fundamentalist Islam and terrorism, the headchopping totalitarians in Riyadh. The only party with an officially anti-global-Wahabi-jihad policy is Labour.
Tell that to Corbyn's friends in Hamas and Hezbollah. Or his allies like Raed Salah.
More guilt by association. When will you realise this doesn't fly? Being at the same events and sharing one or two concerns (in this case violent Israeli colonialism) does not equal support for the groups or their methods. Of course, Hamas, unpleasant organisation as it is (and setup with the help of the Israeli security services in the first place) is solely concerned with fighting Israel and is not responsible for any global terrorism, and Hezbollah have just spent the last three years helping destroy the Islamic State and al-Qaeda in Syria. Again they are a local concern which poses no threat to the rest of the planet, and their military activities are mainly aimed at sunni jihadis, which are.
In no way a comparison with the huge support and succour the Tories have given to the genuine global threat of genocidal Wahabi jihadism.
Why is Sky News correspondent claiming that it’s unfair to compare London an New York murder rates because the NY rate is on the way down? That’s the whole bloody point!
The point is that it's not so much that London's murder rates are unprecedented (aside from a few years at the beginning of this decade, they're not) but that New York's murder rates are now unprecedentedly low, having dropped off a cliff. Yes, there has been a rise in London's murder rates but that's far less noteworthy.
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/981092462197465088 Centrists desperately looking for their saviour. That they haven’t moved past it being David Miliband (who has been the touted centrist saviour since 2009) says it all.
It is odd when Umunna is so much more talented.
Although this does reveal the problem for the moderates. With the Corbyn takeover of selections, they won't get any new talent coming through, as they will be blocked due to ideological impurity.
Unless they create a new party with the Lib Dems.
Centrists problem is that even now what they’ve got to offer isn’t that great, and they’ve had three GEs now to produce some decent prospective leaders. As you say, now Corbyn’s got control of the party, they have no chance now to get a fourth opportunity to get some talent coming through.
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
Interesting that in 1983 some of the biggest swings from Labour to the SDP were in New Towns like Stevenage, Milton Keynes, Harlow, Basildon. At that time it didn't seem difficult to get people to consider voting for a new centrist party. You'd think people would be more open to it today than in 1983 but perhaps not. Maybe voters are more tribal today than they were then.
It's Easter hols and I am taking my eldest daughter down to Devon to see her best friend. We're staying at Boringdon Hall which I thoroughly recommend. Nice restaurant, amazing spa, beautiful echt Elizabethan interior, ghosts.
Enjoy your time down here. Sun is out. Hideously wet though. Only seems to have stopped raining to snow since October.
Still, it's Devon and bloody gorgeous.
Did you see my question about Gidleigh? I'm doing a Times piece there in a coupla weeks. You said the food is now awful. I'm hosting my dear old dad and his wife for dinner there and hence actually paying (the horror!) for some of my food.
What's the best tactic? Anything good? Is it now all terrible? It's a lot of money to pay for a bollocks dinner.
So you didn't see my reply?! Go a la carte. The food was just so disappointing compared to Michael Wignall. I have friends who stayed, were very disappointed. Even breakfast was poor.
Apparently there's a new fish place in Brixham which is getting great word of mouth. And what was the Carved Angel in Dartmouth has just opened after umpteen poor reincarnations. Again, said to be good. Will be checking out both in short order and will report back. (That said, best pop-up restaurant in south Devon is the Good Lady Wifi's....)
Recently chatted online to Michael Wignall. The good news is he's getting his new project together. Looking forward to that, although likely to be Yorkshire/Lincs, so a bit of a journey....
I have run out of popcorn. I have overdosed on popcorn. Can the surrealistic madness of this last week keep going for another week?
Jezbollah should understand that although Jewdas are his friends, and that they are absolutely authentically Jewish, they are not exactly representative of the wider Jewish community who amazingly enough think this is another piss take.
Jeremy had two options yesterday. Put out a tasteful well crafted Passover statement and go to bed, or think "shits and giggs baby" and give the story another few days of legs.
I blame Milne. Shit amateur hour media management? That'll be the Milne.
Sweet and Salted popcorn please. Quickly...
As ever, summed up to perfection.
But can it really be that hard for the others (talking to you @TheJezziah) to see what seems to be so transparently obvious?
Edit: where I do disagree, however, is that this is an error by Milne - he knows exactly what he is doing.
He was invited by a local Jewish group to celebrate a religious event and he did so, he didn't make a song and dance of it*, the photograph was taken without his knowledge. It would have been rude not to go even if there was a risk the papers would have decided it was unacceptable.
He said it was in his personal capacity which makes me think it might not have been Milne, or at least not his suggestion he could have still cleared it. Assuming he isn't lying although I can't really see what difference personal capacity makes or not in this instance.
*I can't actually confirm or deny that the event itself involves singing and/or dancing.
He did it in a personal capacity, he says. 95% of media commentators and many on here say it was "baiting" the mainstream Jewish community. A cursory glance by him or his advisors might have chosen not to go. He was saying to the people who turned up outside Parliament, to many British Jews, to many within his own Party, to filthy anti-semites, that it is legitimate to dismiss concerns about anti-semitism.
But so what? Your boy is golden, untouchable. This is all part of his schtick. He unquestioningly promotes the underdog and little guy and in this case it was the poor put-upon left wing Jews, and more broadly it is the Palestinians. And according to some, you perhaps, he seems to be blissfully unaware of the consequences of such behaviour.
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
So its now Anti Semitic to meet with Jewish Socialists to celebrate Passover.
Jews who criticise Israel are Anti Semitic now are they.
Just proves Socialism rather than Anti Semitism is the problem.
As if we didn't already know that.
This is the fourth time a Corbynista in this thread has pushed this stupid strawman argument. Is it being sent out in Momentum talking points?
No, no-one says it is anti-Semitic to meet with Jewdas. It is, however, a clear signal that he's not serious about addressing the concerns of those worried about anti-Semitism.
Maybe this is the argument Jeremy wanted to have?
Every time I think I'm getting over it, the far left do something new to make me despair about how much these bastards have hijacked the great British Labour Party for the ends of their ugly cult.
Yes, that's the problem. I agree (amazingly) with Roger that perceived mild anti-Semitism per se wt.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Only party in hock to radical Islam is the Tories, historical sponsors of jihadis across Eurasia and Africa and perpetually in hock to the source of 99% of global fundamentalist Islam and terrorism, the headchopping totalitarians in Riyadh. The only party with an officially anti-global-Wahabi-jihad policy is Labour.
What a total bucket of shit. Labour, the party of Lutfur Rahman. The party of gender segregated meetings and open door immigration. The party of Telford, Rotherham and Rochdale.
Puke.
Right. OK. A party with some corrupt time-servers in local government (mostly anti-corbyn and holdovers from the slow rot of the Blair years, by the way) is the same as one in hock to (and arming & funding) the very heart of the fundamentalist, toxic perversions of Wahabi Islam and its tentacles of genocidal global jihad.
Why is Sky News correspondent claiming that it’s unfair to compare London an New York murder rates because the NY rate is on the way down? That’s the whole bloody point!
It's very fair to compare them because they have practically the same population, 8.6 million.
Also London and the UK has extremely rigorous gun laws, while NYC is surrounded by states where you can buy guns in supermarkets. It's as if you could buy guns in Surrey and just drive into Wandsworth.
And yet still London has more murders. Quite an achievement. Well done Sadiq.
So its now Anti Semitic to meet with Jewish Socialists to celebrate Passover.
Jews who criticise Israel are Anti Semitic now are they.
Just proves Socialism rather than Anti Semitism is the problem.
As if we didn't already know that.
This is the fourth time a Corbynista in this thread has pushed this stupid strawman argument. Is it being sent out in Momentum talking points?
No, no-one says it is anti-Semitic to meet with Jewdas. It is, however, a clear signal that he's not serious about addressing the concerns of those worried about anti-Semitism.
Maybe this is the argument Jeremy wanted to have?
Every time I think I'm getting over it, the far left do something new to make me despair about how much these bastards have hijacked the great British Labour Party for the ends of their ugly cult.
Yes, that's the problem. I agree (amazingly) with Roger that perceived mild anti-Semitism per se wt.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Only party in hock to radical Islam is the Tories, historical sponsors of jihadis across Eurasia and Africa and perpetually in hock to the source of 99% of global fundamentalist Islam and terrorism, the headchopping totalitarians in Riyadh. The only party with an officially anti-global-Wahabi-jihad policy is Labour.
What a total bucket of shit. Labour, the party of Lutfur Rahman. The party of gender segregated meetings and open door immigration. The party of Telford, Rotherham and Rochdale.
Puke.
Right. OK. A party with some corrupt time-servers in local government (mostly anti-corbyn and holdovers from the slow rot of the Blair years, by the way) is the same as one in hock to (and arming & funding) the very heart of the fundamentalist, toxic perversions of Wahabi Islam and its tentacles of genocidal global jihad.
Is it not about time someone defined `anti-Semitism?` The handful of times I have walked past an Anti-Israel rally I felt the rally`s stank of Anti-Semitism.To read Jewdas claim that they proudly walked on Pro- Palestinian rallies suggests to me that they have built a myopic anti-capitalist bubble around themselves.
This is the international definition which has been adopted by the UK government and various other governments - https://antisemitism.uk/definition/
Political horse manure, great at making up useless slogans but never actually do anything about it, lots of hot air and bluster with fake concern as usual. Only interested in making political points out of it.
Why is Sky News correspondent claiming that it’s unfair to compare London an New York murder rates because the NY rate is on the way down? That’s the whole bloody point!
It's very fair to compare them because they have practically the same population, 8.6 million.
NYC spend $5.6bn pa on its police force. The Mets budget is £3.24bn which, at current exchange rates, is approximately $1bn less a year. I suspect that in fact significantly understates the difference because the Met provides a number of services to the UK that in the US would be picked up by the FBI.
There is no question that the police were and remain one of our more inefficient public services but this level of resource difference is something that Khan can easily point to as a cause.
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
For the sake of the site, I won't repeat the rumours here, but you can Google.
He was invited by a local Jewish group to celebrate a religious event and he did so, he didn't make a song and dance of it*, the photograph was taken without his knowledge. It would have been rude not to go even if there was a risk the papers would have decided it was unacceptable.
He said it was in his personal capacity which makes me think it might not have been Milne, or at least not his suggestion he could have still cleared it. Assuming he isn't lying although I can't really see what difference personal capacity makes or not in this instance.
*I can't actually confirm or deny that the event itself involves singing and/or dancing.
He did it in a personal capacity, he says. 95% of media commentators and many on here say it was "baiting" the mainstream Jewish community. (1) A cursory glance by him or his advisors might have chosen not to go. (2) He was saying to the people who turned up outside Parliament, to many British J ews, to many within his own Party, to filthy anti-semites, that it is legitimate to dismiss concerns about anti-semitism.
But so what? Your boy is golden, untouchable. This is all part of his schtick. He unquestioningly promotes the underdog and little guy and in this case it was the poor put-upon left wing Jews, and more broadly it is the Palestinians. And according to some, you perhaps, he seems to be blissfully unaware of the consequences of such behaviour.
95% and many on here say a lot of things about Corbyn. (1)
Only to your mind. (2)
So what indeed, quite frankly who cares what regularly xenophobic right wing newspapers judge to be the good or bad Jewish groups, as far as I am concerned, they are the bad papers. Yes it must be annoying for the right wing newspapers that despite a campaign lasting years now all they have done reinforced his position. Thank god, I've been waiting all my life for a potential PM that wasn't enslaved to our crazy right wing newspapers, it seems to drive them ballistic, good, they have been holding our democracy back for years. The best they can hope for is holding Labour back until Corbyn's successor, who will be left wing.
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/981092462197465088 Centrists desperately looking for their saviour. That they haven’t moved past it being David Miliband (who has been the touted centrist saviour since 2009) says it all.
It is odd when Umunna is so much more talented.
Although this does reveal the problem for the moderates. With the Corbyn takeover of selections, they won't get any new talent coming through, as they will be blocked due to ideological impurity.
Unless they create a new party with the Lib Dems.
Centrists problem is that even now what they’ve got to offer isn’t that great, and they’ve had three GEs now to produce some decent prospective leaders. As you say, now Corbyn’s got control of the party, they have no chance now to get a fourth opportunity to get some talent coming through.
As time goes on the current moderate Labour MPs will decrease in number and as noted no new moderates will come through. The time for Labour moderates to act is running out. They probably have the numbers to make a big difference to our politics now, but they need the courage to do it.
Two Jewish comedians David Baddiel and David Schneider, who have regularly written on the issue of antisemitism and the Labour party, both tweeted that MPs and others should not immediately dismiss Jewdas.
“They are just Jews who disagree with other Jews. Which means: Jews ... To make out that it’s somehow antisemitic for him to spend Seder with them just because they’re far left is balls,” Baddiel wrote on Twitter.
Schneider tweeted: “‘Boo! Corbyn needs to get out and meet some Jews!’ (Corbyn spends Passover with some Jews at Jewdas) ‘Boo! Not those Jews!’” .From Guardian Anti -semitism row.
So its now Anti Semitic to meet with Jewish Socialists to celebrate Passover.
Jews who criticise Israel are Anti Semitic now are they.
Just proves Socialism rather than Anti Semitism is the problem.
As if we didn't already know that.
This is the fourth time a Corbynista in this thread has pushed this stupid strawman argument. Is it being sent out in Momentum talking points?
No, no-one says it is anti-Semitic to meet with Jewdas. It is, however, a clear signal that he's not serious about addressing the concerns of those worried about anti-Semitism.
Maybe this is the argument Jeremy wanted to have?
Every time I think I'm getting over it, the far left do something new to make me despair about how much these bastards have hijacked the great British Labour Party for the ends of their ugly cult.
Yes, that's the problem. I agree (amazingly) with Roger that perceived mild anti-Semitism per se wt.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Only party in hock to radical Islam is the Tories, historical sponsors of jihadis across Eurasia and Africa and perpetually in hock to the source of 99% of global fundamentalist Islam and terrorism, the headchopping totalitarians in Riyadh. The only party with an officially anti-global-Wahabi-jihad policy is Labour.
What a total bucket of shit. Labour, the party of Lutfur Rahman. The party of gender segregated meetings and open door immigration. The party of Telford, Rotherham and Rochdale.
Puke.
Right. OK. A party with some corrupt time-servers in local government (mostly anti-corbyn and holdovers from the slow rot of the Blair years, by the way) is the same as one in hock to (and arming & funding) the very heart of the fundamentalist, toxic perversions of Wahabi Islam and its tentacles of genocidal global jihad.
How are we funding the oil rich Saudis exactly?
We've offered a generous amount of financial assistance to their jihadi excursions abroad over the years.
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
If you are correct in your hypothesis, which sounds entirely credible, might the blame not lie with Umunna rather than the press?
I'd like to bet that the majority of people in provincial Britain (which is most of it) don't know anyone who is visibly Jewish, wouldn't know an anti-Semitic trope if it came up and bit them on the bum, and are thoroughly bemused by the whole issue which is one they didn't realise existed.
You would lose your bet. There are plenty of Jewish people outside London and most people would know what anti-Semitism looks like because it is a key plank of the school curriculum and has been for thirty years.
A more realistic question would be, how much will those who are already committed to Corbyn care? After all, the Tories' supporters in the media went big on Corbyn's past last year, and though so far as I can see they didn't make a single thing up - indeed they downplayed one or two things, presumably fearing costly if futile libel actions - it was dismissed as 'fake news' and 'media smears.'
My instinct is that those who support his policies - the ones where he promised free nationalisation of utilities, free tuition fees, free new roads and railways and lower taxes - are not going to be bothered about the fact that he doesn't care how racist he and his supporters appear.
According to the census there are slightly less than 100000 Jewish people outside a chunk of North London. Out of 50 mill plus. How many of those an average Briton would meet and say that's a Jewish person I do not know. Half maybe? The thing about Jewish people is they don't really stand out as being distinct from the vast majority of the population - they are "one of us" to almost everybody.
I did a little experiment with my own children - all of whom are outstanding students who have done RE and history to GSCE. Asked them what a blood libel was.. not sure there was more than a flicker of recognition.
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
For the sake of the site, I won't repeat the rumours here, but you can Google.
I'm still none the wiser. Is the rumour that he is still an admirer of Tony Blair?
95% and many on here say a lot of things about Corbyn. (1)
Only to your mind. (2)
So what indeed, quite frankly who cares what regularly xenophobic right wing newspapers judge to be the good or bad Jewish groups, as far as I am concerned, they are the bad papers. Yes it must be annoying for the right wing newspapers that despite a campaign lasting years now all they have done reinforced his position. Thank god, I've been waiting all my life for a potential PM that wasn't enslaved to our crazy right wing newspapers, it seems to drive them ballistic, good, they have been holding our democracy back for years. The best they can hope for is holding Labour back until Corbyn's successor, who will be left wing.
Yet again you are wilfully not understanding the context. Labour MPs say there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party, Momentum tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And The Jezziah (THE Jezziah, that is) tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party.
So - three impeccable may I be so bold as to say non-right wing sources tell us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And in this context, Jeremy Corbyn wilfully/idiotically/cluelessly exacerbates the situation.
And you? The Jezziah of PB? It is all the fault of the right wing press.
I think we're heading for the formation of a new centrist party because there are enough people who despise both the Tories and Labour but who don't seem to find the LDs an attractive option for whatever reasons.
The new centrist party would then have to merge with the LDs because of lack of infrastructure. Why not go straight to the LDs?
LD's will not recover from their treachery in the coalition
So its now Anti Semitic to meet with Jewish Socialists to celebrate Passover.
Jews who criticise Israel are Anti Semitic now are they.
Just proves Socialism rather than Anti Semitism is the problem.
As if we didn't already know that.
This is the fourth time a Corbynista in this thread has pushed this stupid strawman argument. Is it being sent out in Momentum talking points?
No, no-one says it is anti-Semitic to meet with Jewdas. It is, however, a clear signal that he's not serious about addressing the concerns of those worried about anti-Semitism.
Maybe this is the argument Jeremy wanted to have?
Every time I think I'm getting over it, the far left do something new to make me despair about how much these bastards have hijacked the great British Labour Party for the ends of their ugly cult.
Yes, that's the problem. I agree (amazingly) with Roger that perceived mild anti-Semitism per se wt.
By contrast the boring, autistic Theresa May looks, at least, semi competent and moderately sane, likewise her party. Hence perhaps the recent boost in Tory polling, and the fall in support for Corbyn.
Labour with a decent leader should and would be 10-20 points ahead. JCWNBPM.
Only party in hock to radical Islam is the Tories, historical sponsors of jihadis across Eurasia and Africa and perpetually in hock to the source of 99% of global fundamentalist Islam and terrorism, the headchopping totalitarians in Riyadh. The only party with an officially anti-global-Wahabi-jihad policy is Labour.
What a total bucket of shit. Labour, the party of Lutfur Rahman. The party of gender segregated meetings and open door immigration. The party of Telford, Rotherham and Rochdale.
Puke.
Right. OK. A party with some corrupt time-servers in local government (mostly anti-corbyn and holdovers from the slow rot of the Blair years, by the way) is the same as one in hock to (and arming & funding) the very heart of the fundamentalist, toxic perversions of Wahabi Islam and its tentacles of genocidal global jihad.
How are we funding the oil rich Saudis exactly?
We've offered a generous amount of financial assistance to their jihadi excursions abroad over the years.
Huh? Where did we give financial assistance to Saudi operations?
I think we're heading for the formation of a new centrist party because there are enough people who despise both the Tories and Labour but who don't seem to find the LDs an attractive option for whatever reasons.
The new centrist party would then have to merge with the LDs because of lack of infrastructure. Why not go straight to the LDs?
LD's will not recover from their treachery in the coalition
Yep political party takes opportunity to fulfil its raison d'etre by forming a government, with all the compromises that being a junior partner entails.
95% and many on here say a lot of things about Corbyn. (1)
Only to your mind. (2)
So what indeed, quite frankly who cares what regularly xenophobic right wing newspapers judge to be the good or bad Jewish groups, as far as I am concerned, they are the bad papers. Yes it must be annoying for the right wing newspapers that despite a campaign lasting years now all they have done reinforced his position. Thank god, I've been waiting all my life for a potential PM that wasn't enslaved to our crazy right wing newspapers, it seems to drive them ballistic, good, they have been holding our democracy back for years. The best they can hope for is holding Labour back until Corbyn's successor, who will be left wing.
Yet again you are wilfully not understanding the context. Labour MPs say there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party, Momentum tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And The Jezziah (THE Jezziah, that is) tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party.
So - three impeccable may I be so bold as to say non-right wing sources tell us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And in this context, Jeremy Corbyn wilfully/idiotically/cluelessly exacerbates the situation.
And you? The Jezziah of PB? It is all the fault of the right wing press.
One of us is not getting it.
So now you just have to find the quote of me saying this is no anti semitism in the Labour party... I have pointed out many times this isn't true.
One of us is making stuff up.
As we have already discussed with the emboldening slider that everything please the anti-semites on one side or the other, the excuse you can back just your side using it only really applies if you claim one group is more important than the other rather than decisions being based on doing the right thing.
Does anyone have a list of good/approved Jewish groups and bad/unapproved Jewish groups?
I imagine there's a fairly clear divide between those who fight to combat anti-Semitism and those that ignore it when it could damage a political leader they like.
Is it not about time someone defined `anti-Semitism?` The handful of times I have walked past an Anti-Israel rally I felt the rally`s stank of Anti-Semitism.To read Jewdas claim that they proudly walked on Pro- Palestinian rallies suggests to me that they have built a myopic anti-capitalist bubble around themselves.
This is the international definition which has been adopted by the UK government and various other governments - https://antisemitism.uk/definition/
Interesting but you can see by the spuriousness of the definitions what a hodge-podge it is. 'Saying the Jews killed Christ'. Who gives a f*ck....'Comparing Israeli policies to that of the Nazis' Ridiculous! People compare the policies of Theresa May to the Nazis!.....'Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to the state of Israel than their own'. It's all over the Jewish prayer book. You'd have to prosecute every Jew reading the Haggadah this Passover.
There are currently 250,000 Jews in the UK. Roughly 30% are marrying 'out' (It's double in the US). Within five or six generations there will only be the Ultra Orthodox still in existence and at that time anti Semitism will be much easier to define
So you know better than all the experts and all the governments who have looked at this, do you?.... OK.
I'd like to bet that the majority of people in provincial Britain (which is most of it) don't know anyone who is visibly Jewish, wouldn't know an anti-Semitic trope if it came up and bit them on the bum, and are thoroughly bemused by the whole issue which is one they didn't realise existed.
You would lose your bet. There are plenty of Jewish people outside London and most people would know what anti-Semitism looks like because it is a key plank of the school curriculum and has been for thirty years.
A more realistic question would be, how much will those who are already committed to Corbyn care? After all, the Tories' supporters in the media went big on Corbyn's past last year, and though so far as I can see they didn't make a single thing up - indeed they downplayed one or two things, presumably fearing costly if futile libel actions - it was dismissed as 'fake news' and 'media smears.'
My instinct is that those who support his policies - the ones where he promised free nationalisation of utilities, free tuition fees, free new roads and railways and lower taxes - are not going to be bothered about the fact that he doesn't care how racist he and his supporters appear.
According to the census there are slightly less than 100000 Jewish people outside a chunk of North London. Out of 50 mill plus. How many of those an average Briton would meet and say that's a Jewish person I do not know. Half maybe? The thing about Jewish people is they don't really stand out as being distinct from the vast majority of the population - they are "one of us" to almost everybody.
I did a little experiment with my own children - all of whom are outstanding students who have done RE and history to GSCE. Asked them what a blood libel was.. not sure there was more than a flicker of recognition.
I have a few jewish distant relatives, but otherwise i don't think i properly met a jewish person until university.
95% and many on here say a lot of things about Corbyn. (1)
Only to your mind. (2)
So what indeed, quite frankly who cares what regularly xenophobic right wing newspapers judge to be the good or bad Jewish groups, as far as I am concerned, they are the bad papers. Yes it must be annoying for the right wing newspapers that despite a campaign lasting years now all they have done reinforced his position. Thank god, I've been waiting all my life for a potential PM that wasn't enslaved to our crazy right wing newspapers, it seems to drive them ballistic, good, they have been holding our democracy back for years. The best they can hope for is holding Labour back until Corbyn's successor, who will be left wing.
Yet again you are wilfully not understanding the context. Labour MPs say there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party, Momentum tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And The Jezziah (THE Jezziah, that is) tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party.
So - three impeccable may I be so bold as to say non-right wing sources tell us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And in this context, Jeremy Corbyn wilfully/idiotically/cluelessly exacerbates the situation.
And you? The Jezziah of PB? It is all the fault of the right wing press.
One of us is not getting it.
So now you just have to find the quote of me saying this is no anti semitism in the Labour party... I have pointed out many times this isn't true.
One of us is making stuff up.
As we have already discussed with the emboldening slider that everything please the anti-semites on one side or the other, the excuse you can back just your side using it only really applies if you claim one group is more important than the other rather than decisions being based on doing the right thing.
You said that right wing newspapers have conflated this issue (you mention "right wing newspapers" three times in your first paragraph) with their choice of good or bad Jewish groups as though it is only the RWNs who have done so.
Ignoring the fact that left wing entities (Lab MPs, Mo, JC) have said there is anti-semitism and IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT that Jeremy Corbyn, by further continuing to embolden anti-semites, either made an error of judgement, or didn't.
Can sense the palpable panic that the whole anti-semitism smear campaign has jumped the shark a few weeks too early for the locals. Maybe PB Tories should stop believing their own side's hype for once.
A fair point. Nonetheless if an election were held now I think the Tories would win a slim OVERALL majority, and unless Corbyn goes I don't see that changing, indeed I think the prospective Tory majority gets a little bigger as the months pass, and he stays.
Please don't tell May that! Without getting all Brenda from Bristol about politics, I don't think I could stand it five years running...
What do we want? Annual Parliaments! When do we want them? Every year on the third Thursday in May!
Can sense the palpable panic that the whole anti-semitism smear campaign has jumped the shark a few weeks too early for the locals. Maybe PB Tories should stop believing their own side's hype for once.
Did Momentum, several Labour MPs, and Jeremy Corbyn himself all jump the shark with the PB Tories?
Can sense the palpable panic that the whole anti-semitism smear campaign has jumped the shark a few weeks too early for the locals. Maybe PB Tories should stop believing their own side's hype for once.
Did Momentum, several Labour MPs, and Jeremy Corbyn himself all jump the shark with the PB Tories?
Why is Sky News correspondent claiming that it’s unfair to compare London an New York murder rates because the NY rate is on the way down? That’s the whole bloody point!
The point is that it's not so much that London's murder rates are unprecedented (aside from a few years at the beginning of this decade, they're not) but that New York's murder rates are now unprecedentedly low, having dropped off a cliff. Yes, there has been a rise in London's murder rates but that's far less noteworthy.
Why did New York city's murder rates fall so low? Largely through the 'broken windows' and stop and search policies of Mayor Rudy Giuliani and police chief Bill Bratton in the 1990s
Interesting that in 1983 some of the biggest swings from Labour to the SDP were in New Towns like Stevenage, Milton Keynes, Harlow, Basildon. At that time it didn't seem difficult to get people to consider voting for a new centrist party. You'd think people would be more open to it today than in 1983 but perhaps not. Maybe voters are more tribal today than they were then.
In 1983 Old Labour's worldview and approach had recently been seen to fail in Government. So if you rejected Thatcher's Conservatism as well, a new party made logical sense.
Corbynism hasn't been seen to fail yet. (Apart from all the historical and international versions of it, naturally).
Can sense the palpable panic that the whole anti-semitism smear campaign has jumped the shark a few weeks too early for the locals. Maybe PB Tories should stop believing their own side's hype for once.
Did Momentum, several Labour MPs, and Jeremy Corbyn himself all jump the shark with the PB Tories?
I find it best not to feed this particular one.
Gah! I know but it is the lack of logic that is killing.
Jeremy Corbyn Supporters: there is no problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn: there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party Jeremy Corbyn Supporters: RIGHT WING SMEAR!
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
For the sake of the site, I won't repeat the rumours here, but you can Google.
The rumours such as they are aren't fatal to a future Umunna leadership bid in my view even if they are true
Corbyn, Momentum, and others in labour admit they have an anti semitic problem in their party.
So how has this evolved to it being a right wing conspiracy when it is clear it is a full on internal civil war in labour.
And the audio with the video is disgusting and is not being played by the media. My wife heard it and could not believe what was being said and the singing as well. She was horrified that this is alive and well in politics today
ON a similar note, amazing how the BBC repeatedly uses stories from Guido as the basis of headline news stories. One only has to imagine a world in which the BBC regularly picked up their stories from Skwawkbox in order to muse on how hard right the current affairs dept at the BBC is these days. Totally taken over by pro-government operatives.
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
Good to see you are now a neoremainer!
Chuka was a DJ in Manchester in the nineties. Draw your own conclusions! *
* Not that such a back story should exclude anyone from political office. It would be far better if more politicians had actually had a life.
Is it not about time someone defined `anti-Semitism?` The handful of times I have walked past an Anti-Israel rally I felt the rally`s stank of Anti-Semitism.To read Jewdas claim that they proudly walked on Pro- Palestinian rallies suggests to me that they have built a myopic anti-capitalist bubble around themselves.
This is the international definition which has been adopted by the UK government and various other governments - https://antisemitism.uk/definition/
Interesting but you can see by the spuriousness of the definitions what a hodge-podge it is. 'Saying the Jews killed Christ'. Who gives a f*ck....'Comparing Israeli policies to that of the Nazis' Ridiculous! People compare the policies of Theresa May to the Nazis!.....'Accusing Jewish people of being more loyal to the state of Israel than their own'. It's all over the Jewish prayer book. You'd have to prosecute every Jew reading the Haggadah this Passover.
There are currently 250,000 Jews in the UK. Roughly 30% are marrying 'out' (It's double in the US). Within five or six generations there will only be the Ultra Orthodox still in existence and at that time anti Semitism will be much easier to define
So you know better than all the experts and all the governments who have looked at this, do you?.... OK.
Well I suggest you try prosecuting anyone for comparing the Netanyahu government to the Nazis when their Justice Minister has called for all the Palestinians to be exterminated. But perhaps she was just angry......
Can sense the palpable panic that the whole anti-semitism smear campaign has jumped the shark a few weeks too early for the locals. Maybe PB Tories should stop believing their own side's hype for once.
Interesting that in 1983 some of the biggest swings from Labour to the SDP were in New Towns like Stevenage, Milton Keynes, Harlow, Basildon. At that time it didn't seem difficult to get people to consider voting for a new centrist party. You'd think people would be more open to it today than in 1983 but perhaps not. Maybe voters are more tribal today than they were then.
In 1983 Old Labour's worldview and approach had recently been seen to fail in Government. So if you rejected Thatcher's Conservatism as well, a new party made logical sense.
Corbynism hasn't been seen to fail yet. (Apart from all the historical and international versions of it, naturally).
Basically he is talking about a return to the progressive taxation and public / private balance of the Thatcher era, do you hate Thatcher then?
ON a similar note, amazing how the BBC repeatedly uses stories from Guido as the basis of headline news stories. One only has to imagine a world in which the BBC regularly picked up their stories from Skwawkbox in order to muse on how hard right the current affairs dept at the BBC is these days. Totally taken over by pro-government operatives.
The audio video provided by Guido was leaked to him from within the meeting and was appalling. You can attempt to shoot the messenger but the audio - video exists
My suspicion is that the real nature of Jezza's and the hard-left's anti-Semitism (to whatever extent) is thus: Jezza is instinctively anti-Western (evidence available ad nauseum) and Jewish people are mainly perceived as being on our side. It's nothing personal..
95% and many on here say a lot of things about Corbyn. (1)
Only to your mind. (2)
So what indeed, quite frankly who cares what regularly xenophobic right wing newspapers judge to be the good or bad Jewish groups, as far as I am concerned, they are the bad papers. Yes it must be annoying for the right wing newspapers that despite a campaign lasting years now all they have done reinforced his position. Thank god, I've been waiting all my life for a potential PM that wasn't enslaved to our crazy right wing newspapers, it seems to drive them ballistic, good, they have been holding our democracy back for years. The best they can hope for is holding Labour back until Corbyn's successor, who will be left wing.
Yet again you are wilfully not understanding the context. Labour MPs say there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party, Momentum tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And The Jezziah (THE Jezziah, that is) tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party.
So - three impeccable may I be so bold as to say non-right wing sources tell us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And in this context, Jeremy Corbyn wilfully/idiotically/cluelessly exacerbates the situation.
And you? The Jezziah of PB? It is all the fault of the right wing press.
One of us is not getting it.
So now you just have to find the quote of me saying this is no anti semitism in the Labour party... I have pointed out many times this isn't true.
One of us is making stuff up.
As we have already discussed with the emboldening slider that everything please the anti-semites on one side or the other, the excuse you can back just your side using it only really applies if you claim one group is more important than the other rather than decisions being based on doing the right thing.
You said that right wing newspapers have conflated this issue (you mention "right wing newspapers" three times in your first paragraph) with their choice of good or bad Jewish groups as though it is only the RWNs who have done so.
Ignoring the fact that left wing entities (Lab MPs, Mo, JC) have said there is anti-semitism and IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT that Jeremy Corbyn, by further continuing to embolden anti-semites, either made an error of judgement, or didn't.
But you are again conflating all the issues of the past few weeks into one.
The fact that a small number of Labour members post antisemitic stuff and deny the Holocaust is a problem. The fact those members aren't chucked out is a problem. I would say Corbyn's comments about that mural are a problem. The fact he had Passover dinner with Jewish people is not a problem, and it's laughable to claim it is.
Interesting that in 1983 some of the biggest swings from Labour to the SDP were in New Towns like Stevenage, Milton Keynes, Harlow, Basildon. At that time it didn't seem difficult to get people to consider voting for a new centrist party. You'd think people would be more open to it today than in 1983 but perhaps not. Maybe voters are more tribal today than they were then.
In 1983 Old Labour's worldview and approach had recently been seen to fail in Government. So if you rejected Thatcher's Conservatism as well, a new party made logical sense.
Corbynism hasn't been seen to fail yet. (Apart from all the historical and international versions of it, naturally).
Basically he is talking about a return to the progressive taxation and public / private balance of the Thatcher era, do you hate Thatcher then?
No he isn't. He wants to raise the top rate of income tax to 50%, Thatcher cut it to 50%.
He also wants to renationalise the likes of British Gas and the electricity companies which Thatcher privatised and he will also restore most of the powers of the unions Thatcher restricted
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
For the sake of the site, I won't repeat the rumours here, but you can Google.
The rumours such as they are aren't fatal to a future Umunna leadership bid in my view even if they are true
That he may or may not secretly be a sweet transvestite from Transexual Transylvania* wouldn't matter if it was true (*and it isn't) as it's 2018 and it's acceptable to go the full baby-eating Bishop of Bath and Wells with no-one batting an eyebrow.
What would sink him is the true Crime and Misdemeanor of disagreeing with his Self-righteousness Jezbollah the First.
95% and many on here say a lot of things about Corbyn. (1)
Only to your mind. (2)
So what indeed, quite franng.
Yet again you are wilfully not understanding the context. Labour MPs say there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party, Momentum tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And The Jezziah (THE Jezziah, that is) tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party.
So - three impeccable may I be so bold as to say non-right wing sources tell us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And in this context, Jeremy Corbyn wilfully/idiotically/cluelessly exacerbates the situation.
And you? The Jezziah of PB? It is all the fault of the right wing press.
One of us is not getting it.
So now you just have to find the quote of me saying this is no anti semitism in the Labour party... I have pointed out many times this isn't true.
One of us is making stuff up.
As we have already discussed with the emboldening slider that everything please the anti-semites on one side or the other, the excuse you can back just your side using it only really applies if you claim one group is more important than the other rather than decisions being based on doing the right thing.
You said that right wing newspapers have conflated this issue (you mention "right wing newspapers" three times in your first paragraph) with their choice of good or bad Jewish groups as though it is only the RWNs who have done so.
Ignoring the fact that left wing entities (Lab MPs, Mo, JC) have said there is anti-semitism and IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT that Jeremy Corbyn, by further continuing to embolden anti-semites, either made an error of judgement, or didn't.
But you are again conflating all the issues of the past few weeks into one.
The fact that a small number of Labour members post antisemitic stuff and deny the Holocaust is a problem. The fact those members aren't chucked out is a problem. I would say Corbyn's comments about that mural are a problem. The fact he had Passover dinner with Jewish people is not a problem, and it's laughable to claim it is.
I won't reply in too much detail as I need to go to the gym and hit something (not a bag with @TheJezziah's face on it!! ).
But his trip to Jewdas flew in the face of and arguably exacerbated all those issues of the past few weeks. As ever, @RochdalePioneers nailed it. Why not just avoid any potential issue or offence or exacerbation and not go?
Yet again you are wilfully not understanding the context. Labour MPs say there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party, Momentum tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And The Jezziah (THE Jezziah, that is) tells us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party.
So - three impeccable may I be so bold as to say non-right wing sources tell us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And in this context, Jeremy Corbyn wilfully/idiotically/cluelessly exacerbates the situation.
And you? The Jezziah of PB? It is all the fault of the right wing press.
One of us is not getting it.
So now you just have to find the quote of me saying this is no anti semitism in the Labour party... I have pointed out many times this isn't true.
One of us is making stuff up.
As we have already discussed with the emboldening slider that everything please the anti-semites on one side or the other, the excuse you can back just your side using it only really applies if you claim one group is more important than the other rather than decisions being based on doing the right thing.
You said that right wing newspapers have conflated this issue (you mention "right wing newspapers" three times in your first paragraph) with their choice of good or bad Jewish groups as though it is only the RWNs who have done so.
Ignoring the fact that left wing entities (Lab MPs, Mo, JC) have said there is anti-semitism and IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT that Jeremy Corbyn, by further continuing to embolden anti-semites, either made an error of judgement, or didn't.
Okay this is rapidly getting boring.
We have discussed the embodiment slider quite a bit now you seem to not care when it is slid against Muslims, only embodiment against Jewish people seems to bother you. Why is this?
I keep pointing to the right thing as the correct decision but you seem determined to only concentrate on attacking one side on the slider.
I think he did the right thing in terms of a local group offered him to come and celebrate a religious event with them, it would have been rude to say no, even if the Press wouldn't like it. Not that he actually tried to get the press involved.
I have said that there is anti-semitism within Labour.
My right wing news paragraph was basically a response to your Golden boy comment, nothing more, basically the fact that heavily skewed right newspapers no longer get to pick Labour leaders is great new. I understand those who aren't fans of democracy and feel their views should be represented instead aren't pleased. Tough.
I'd love to know what the press had on Umunna. He was fired up for a leadership contest he had a good chance of winning. He had a radical (but not bonkers) platform for policy renewal, and then 3 days in he pulls the plug and goes to ground for a year.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
For the sake of the site, I won't repeat the rumours here, but you can Google.
The rumours such as they are aren't fatal to a future Umunna leadership bid in my view even if they are true
That he may or may not secretly be a sweet transvestite from Transexual Transylvania* wouldn't matter if it was true (*and it isn't) as it's 2018 and it's acceptable to go the full baby-eating Bishop of Bath and Wells with no-one batting an eyebrow.
What would sink him is the true Crime and Misdemeanor of disagreeing with his Self-righteousness Jezbollah the First.
As he is never going to win the votes of most social conservatives no.
Umunna's success will be inversely correlated to Corbyn's though agreed, if Corbyn loses the next general election Umunna has a shot
Hmm. I get the feeling that this latest 'Jewdas' revelation has only served to muddy the waters. The gripe now seems to be not that Jezza is anti-semitic but that he's not as slavishly pro-Israel/IDF as someone one like Guido would like. While this may still play well amongst Guido's fellow travellers, for Jezza's more mainstream critics it may only blunt their attacks.
Interesting that in 1983 some of the biggest swings from Labour to the SDP were in New Towns like Stevenage, Milton Keynes, Harlow, Basildon. At that time it didn't seem difficult to get people to consider voting for a new centrist party. You'd think people would be more open to it today than in 1983 but perhaps not. Maybe voters are more tribal today than they were then.
I think everyone is drawing the wrong conclusion from the SDP story. They didn't succeed, but boy did they come close. Slightly better targeting of their resources and having a single leader might well have made a huge difference. There's no law of nature involved here. If a breakaway party does form, I'll be getting a bet in on it as soon as possible while the odds are long.
I think we're heading for the formation of a new centrist party because there are enough people who despise both the Tories and Labour but who don't seem to find the LDs an attractive option for whatever reasons.
The new centrist party would then have to merge with the LDs because of lack of infrastructure. Why not go straight to the LDs?
LD's will not recover from their treachery in the coalition
Yep political party takes opportunity to fulfil its raison d'etre by forming a government, with all the compromises that being a junior partner entails.
Comments
Not all Labour supporters fit the profile of the truest believers, but there is a phenomenal capacity among the hardcore for projecting absolute virtue on to the leader and unalloyed wickedness on to his detractors. The most common defence of Corbyn is that his critics are “smearing” him – a formula that rejects even the possibility that he is at fault. In this political cosmology, it makes no more sense to ask why someone might think Corbyn unsuitable to be prime minister than to ask why Darth Vader wants to control the galaxy. The Force has a dark side and a light side. That’s all you need to know.
He also captures May well.....
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/03/i-see-no-sign-that-this-politics-of-devotion-is-doing-us-any-good?CMP=twt_gu
Still, it's Devon and bloody gorgeous.
He said it was in his personal capacity which makes me think it might not have been Milne, or at least not his suggestion he could have still cleared it. Assuming he isn't lying although I can't really see what difference personal capacity makes or not in this instance.
*I can't actually confirm or deny that the event itself involves singing and/or dancing.
Remind you of anyone?
Centrists desperately looking for their saviour. That they haven’t moved past it being David Miliband (who has been the touted centrist saviour since 2009) says it all.
The centrist mainstream seems dead and buried under a culture of intolerance but it would soon be resurrected if somebody emerged with the strength to roll the stone away from the mouth of the grave.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/there-s-a-hole-in-the-centre-made-for-a-saviour-t0z5rg7sv
Although this does reveal the problem for the moderates. With the Corbyn takeover of selections, they won't get any new talent coming through, as they will be blocked due to ideological impurity.
Unless they create a new party with the Lib Dems.
There are currently 250,000 Jews in the UK. Roughly 30% are marrying 'out' (It's double in the US). Within five or six generations there will only be the Ultra Orthodox still in existence and at that time anti Semitism will be much easier to define
Consistency?
The other hand?
Well, it wasn’t just that - it was the whole manifesto which went down terribly, and encourage more people to coalesce around Labour. Tories problem isn’t that there’s no demand for Blue Labour, but that they’ve likely already reached the maximum amount of people that they can attract with such an offer. Just as they are loads of Blue Labour types, there are also those who it doesn’t do much for - which is why Labour ended up getting nearly 40% last year.
In no way a comparison with the huge support and succour the Tories have given to the genuine global threat of genocidal Wahabi jihadism.
We would have not just seen off the bonkers fringe, wedwhave narrowly won the referendum as well. Thanks very much newspapers
Apparently there's a new fish place in Brixham which is getting great word of mouth. And what was the Carved Angel in Dartmouth has just opened after umpteen poor reincarnations. Again, said to be good. Will be checking out both in short order and will report back. (That said, best pop-up restaurant in south Devon is the Good Lady Wifi's....)
Recently chatted online to Michael Wignall. The good news is he's getting his new project together. Looking forward to that, although likely to be Yorkshire/Lincs, so a bit of a journey....
But so what? Your boy is golden, untouchable. This is all part of his schtick. He unquestioningly promotes the underdog and little guy and in this case it was the poor put-upon left wing Jews, and more broadly it is the Palestinians. And according to some, you perhaps, he seems to be blissfully unaware of the consequences of such behaviour.
Didn’t you back Leave?
It'll be just like old times.
There is no question that the police were and remain one of our more inefficient public services but this level of resource difference is something that Khan can easily point to as a cause.
Only to your mind. (2)
So what indeed, quite frankly who cares what regularly xenophobic right wing newspapers judge to be the good or bad Jewish groups, as far as I am concerned, they are the bad papers. Yes it must be annoying for the right wing newspapers that despite a campaign lasting years now all they have done reinforced his position. Thank god, I've been waiting all my life for a potential PM that wasn't enslaved to our crazy right wing newspapers, it seems to drive them ballistic, good, they have been holding our democracy back for years. The best they can hope for is holding Labour back until Corbyn's successor, who will be left wing.
The time for Labour moderates to act is running out. They probably have the numbers to make a big difference to our politics now, but they need the courage to do it.
https://order-order.com/2018/04/03/jewish-groups-condemn-mocking-disrespectful-corbyn/
“They are just Jews who disagree with other Jews. Which means: Jews ... To make out that it’s somehow antisemitic for him to spend Seder with them just because they’re far left is balls,” Baddiel wrote on Twitter.
Schneider tweeted: “‘Boo! Corbyn needs to get out and meet some Jews!’ (Corbyn spends Passover with some Jews at Jewdas) ‘Boo! Not those Jews!’” .From Guardian Anti -semitism row.
I did a little experiment with my own children - all of whom are outstanding students who have done RE and history to GSCE. Asked them what a blood libel was.. not sure there was more than a flicker of recognition.
So - three impeccable may I be so bold as to say non-right wing sources tell us there is an anti-semitism problem within the Labour Party. And in this context, Jeremy Corbyn wilfully/idiotically/cluelessly exacerbates the situation.
And you? The Jezziah of PB? It is all the fault of the right wing press.
One of us is not getting it.
Bastards.
One of us is making stuff up.
As we have already discussed with the emboldening slider that everything please the anti-semites on one side or the other, the excuse you can back just your side using it only really applies if you claim one group is more important than the other rather than decisions being based on doing the right thing.
My evening.standard #Labour #antisemitism #sketch #cartoon #illustration https://www.instagram.com/p/BhGvDVqhfqe/
Ignoring the fact that left wing entities (Lab MPs, Mo, JC) have said there is anti-semitism and IT IS IN THIS CONTEXT that Jeremy Corbyn, by further continuing to embolden anti-semites, either made an error of judgement, or didn't.
Corbynism hasn't been seen to fail yet. (Apart from all the historical and international versions of it, naturally).
Jeremy Corbyn Supporters: there is no problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party
Jeremy Corbyn: there is a problem with anti-semitism within the Labour Party
Jeremy Corbyn Supporters: RIGHT WING SMEAR!
So how has this evolved to it being a right wing conspiracy when it is clear it is a full on internal civil war in labour.
And the audio with the video is disgusting and is not being played by the media. My wife heard it and could not believe what was being said and the singing as well. She was horrified that this is alive and well in politics today
Chuka was a DJ in Manchester in the nineties. Draw your own conclusions! *
* Not that such a back story should exclude anyone from political office. It would be far better if more politicians had actually had a life.
NEW THREAD
The fact that a small number of Labour members post antisemitic stuff and deny the Holocaust is a problem. The fact those members aren't chucked out is a problem. I would say Corbyn's comments about that mural are a problem. The fact he had Passover dinner with Jewish people is not a problem, and it's laughable to claim it is.
He also wants to renationalise the likes of British Gas and the electricity companies which Thatcher privatised and he will also restore most of the powers of the unions Thatcher restricted
What would sink him is the true Crime and Misdemeanor of disagreeing with his Self-righteousness Jezbollah the First.
But his trip to Jewdas flew in the face of and arguably exacerbated all those issues of the past few weeks. As ever, @RochdalePioneers nailed it. Why not just avoid any potential issue or offence or exacerbation and not go?
We have discussed the embodiment slider quite a bit now you seem to not care when it is slid against Muslims, only embodiment against Jewish people seems to bother you. Why is this?
I keep pointing to the right thing as the correct decision but you seem determined to only concentrate on attacking one side on the slider.
I think he did the right thing in terms of a local group offered him to come and celebrate a religious event with them, it would have been rude to say no, even if the Press wouldn't like it. Not that he actually tried to get the press involved.
I have said that there is anti-semitism within Labour.
My right wing news paragraph was basically a response to your Golden boy comment, nothing more, basically the fact that heavily skewed right newspapers no longer get to pick Labour leaders is great new. I understand those who aren't fans of democracy and feel their views should be represented instead aren't pleased. Tough.
Umunna's success will be inversely correlated to Corbyn's though agreed, if Corbyn loses the next general election Umunna has a shot