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  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    Good bit of victimblaming. Is it fine to burgle houses with open windows or unlocked doors?
    If the NHS do not take patient's data security seriously, they get fined.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23286231

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/13/nhs_fined_stolen_data/

    I notice in the last one, the NHS bleated just like you. "We are the victim", bleat, bleat.

    Sorry, but if you hold a position of responsibility, if you hold records, if you hold data, you have responsibilities too.

    If there was confidential information on Harman's computer, it is HER responsibility to ensure it is secure and not susceptible to hacking.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,019

    Evening all - just catching up. I take it we're running a book on when Southam leaves the Labour Party in disgust again. Where do I find the prices?

    Naughty ;-)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    It really isn't. It might be decided it was so juvenile and so long ago it is not in the public interest to charge the perpetrator, but come on. Plus it was only a personal website, not exactly unforgivable for someone to be a bit dumb with their password. Heck, Harman herself may not have known it, I doubt she edited the thing herself. But it hardly matters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    murali_s said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    A top contender for most idiotic post of the year.
    If that is the most idiotic post of the year then we are in for a very smart year, in fairness.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/08/thequeenshould-win-nobel-peace-prize-say-ministers-commonwealth/

    The Queen should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for her six decades' service to the Commonwealth, senior political figures and ministers say.

    People have gotten the prize for less, without question, but seems like a non-starter to me. Maybe some sort of lifetime achievement recognition?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,037
    RobD said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    The most heinous of crimes. Surprised we abolished the death penalty for it, to be honest. :smiley:
    Indeed, especially if the perpetrator is a Tory (that should be a crime in itself).

    Night night x
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Guess away.

    I doubt the CPS or the police or Ms Harman can be bothered, but the good news is: you can! The list of offences which can't be the subject of a private prosecution is short, and hacking websites is not, afaik, on it. So: you gonna bring a private prosecution, if no one else does? I do hope so. Because "pompous blowhard" is an ugly expression, and I'd hate to have to use it.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    The Tory government’s military and financial support for the very worst kind of jihadi extremists in Syria (and Libya and Afghanistan looking further back of course) will be a shameful stain on our nation’s history for a long time to come. The fact that these jihadis, bedfellows of ISIS and al-Qaeda, are about to be wiped out, in a major net positive for the world, has the corrupt and discredited transatlantic security establishment reeling and angry.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    Good bit of victimblaming. Is it fine to burgle houses with open windows or unlocked doors?
    If the NHS do not take patient's data security seriously, they get fined.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23286231

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/13/nhs_fined_stolen_data/

    I notice in the last one, the NHS bleated just like you. "We are the victim", bleat, bleat.

    Sorry, but if you hold a position of responsibility, if you hold records, if you hold data, you have responsibilities too.

    If there was confidential information on Harman's computer, it is HER responsibility to ensure it is secure and not susceptible to hacking.
    In both the cases that you cite, NHS computers were sold on by contractors. Rather different to deliberately hacking into a computer.

    I suppose that you blame the victims of Murdoch's phone hacking for similar reasons to your logic above?

    I dare not ask what you think scantily clad women deserve....
  • murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    kle4 said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    It really isn't. It might be decided it was so juvenile and so long ago it is not in the public interest to charge the perpetrator, but come on. Plus it was only a personal website, not exactly unforgivable for someone to be a bit dumb with their password. Heck, Harman herself may not have known it, I doubt she edited the thing herself. But it hardly matters.
    You're probably right that this incident isn't a big deal either way.

    But, I think my original point is correct. If a doctor, or an army general, or a teacher, or a public examiner or even a banker or financial services provider was hacked, & personal records or confidential information was put at risk, then they would receive scant sympathy.

    If they had been deemed to be negligent (for example by choosing an easily crackable password), they'd be facing disciplinary/legal action.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    Good bit of victimblaming. Is it fine to burgle houses with open windows or unlocked doors?
    If the NHS do not take patient's data security seriously, they get fined.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23286231

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/13/nhs_fined_stolen_data/

    I notice in the last one, the NHS bleated just like you. "We are the victim", bleat, bleat.

    Sorry, but if you hold a position of responsibility, if you hold records, if you hold data, you have responsibilities too.

    If there was confidential information on Harman's computer, it is HER responsibility to ensure it is secure and not susceptible to hacking.
    In both the cases that you cite, NHS computers were sold on by contractors. Rather different to deliberately hacking into a computer.

    I suppose that you blame the victims of Murdoch's phone hacking for similar reasons to your logic above?

    I dare not ask what you think scantily clad women deserve....
    Ah, smearing your opponent ... and so early in the game! Well done, Doctor.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited April 2018
    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    Good bit of victimblaming. Is it fine to burgle houses with open windows or unlocked doors?
    If the NHS do not take patient's data security seriously, they get fined.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23286231

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/13/nhs_fined_stolen_data/

    I notice in the last one, the NHS bleated just like you. "We are the victim", bleat, bleat.

    Sorry, but if you hold a position of responsibility, if you hold records, if you hold data, you have responsibilities too.

    If there was confidential information on Harman's computer, it is HER responsibility to ensure it is secure and not susceptible to hacking.
    In both the cases that you cite, NHS computers were sold on by contractors. Rather different to deliberately hacking into a computer.

    I suppose that you blame the victims of Murdoch's phone hacking for similar reasons to your logic above?

    I dare not ask what you think scantily clad women deserve....
    They computers were sold on, and **hacked**.

    The NHS said "Oh, we are the victims, bleat, bleat"

    The Information Commissioner said "Here's your 375k fine." (Of course, as it is the NHS, the taxpayer paid)

  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082

    murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
    Do you completely discount that this could have been a false flag? We are talking about extremist al-Qaeda type jihadists in Douma, who parade women and children through the streets in cages because they are the wrong sect. You think it completely implausible they would stage and publicise fake attacks in order to give their sponsors (shamefully, prominently including the US and UK, in what will be a long lasting stain on our history) an excuse to try and help them before they are finally defeated for good? You'd have to be a bit thick, surely?

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    Good bit of victimblaming. Is it fine to burgle houses with open windows or unlocked doors?
    If the NHS do not take patient's data security seriously, they get fined.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23286231

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/13/nhs_fined_stolen_data/

    I notice in the last one, the NHS bleated just like you. "We are the victim", bleat, bleat.

    Sorry, but if you hold a position of responsibility, if you hold records, if you hold data, you have responsibilities too.

    If there was confidential information on Harman's computer, it is HER responsibility to ensure it is secure and not susceptible to hacking.
    In both the cases that you cite, NHS computers were sold on by contractors. Rather different to deliberately hacking into a computer.

    I suppose that you blame the victims of Murdoch's phone hacking for similar reasons to your logic above?

    I dare not ask what you think scantily clad women deserve....
    They computers were sold on, and **hacked**.

    The NHS said "Oh, we are the victims, bleat, bleat"

    The Information Commissioner said "Here's your 375k fine." (Of course, as it is the NHS, the taxpayer paid)

    Then Carol Beer goes "COMPUTER SAYS NO!"
  • JWisemann said:

    murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
    Do you completely discount that this could have been a false flag? We are talking about extremist al-Qaeda type jihadists in Douma, who parade women and children through the streets in cages because they are the wrong sect. You think it completely implausible they would stage and publicise fake attacks in order to give their sponsors (shamefully, prominently including the US and UK, in what will be a long lasting stain on our history) an excuse to try and help them before they are finally defeated for good? You'd have to be a bit thick, surely?

    Answer is yes and no I am not a bit thick
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    JWisemann said:

    murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
    Do you completely discount that this could have been a false flag??

    There's a difference between not completely discounting a possibility, and implying or directly stating that something is a false flag every single time anything happens, ever. Swallowing everything one is told is certainly not wisdom, but neither is swallowing every alternate hypothesis, often self contradictory, of every single claim that is made.

    Good night

  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    JWisemann said:

    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
    Isn't Yokel, how should I put it, informed in such matters? That's the impression I got.
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082

    JWisemann said:

    murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
    Do you completely discount that this could have been a false flag? We are talking about extremist al-Qaeda type jihadists in Douma, who parade women and children through the streets in cages because they are the wrong sect. You think it completely implausible they would stage and publicise fake attacks in order to give their sponsors (shamefully, prominently including the US and UK, in what will be a long lasting stain on our history) an excuse to try and help them before they are finally defeated for good? You'd have to be a bit thick, surely?

    Answer is yes and no I am not a bit thick
    Reasoning? Same as the Skripal poisoning, there is zero motive for the officially accused to have done it and plenty of motive from other parties. The Russians have been warning about a false flag in Douma for weeks. Its an almost exact replica of what happened this time last year, when the jihadis were getting heavily defeated in northern Hama.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 48,922
    RobD said:

    JWisemann said:

    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
    Isn't Yokel, how should I put it, informed in such matters? That's the impression I got.
    Informed by whom?
  • JWisemann said:

    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
    Nothing in this is a joke - maybe does not suit your narrative.

    Anyway may I wish you and all posters a peaceful nights rest

    Good night
  • JWisemannJWisemann Posts: 1,082
    RobD said:

    JWisemann said:

    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
    Isn't Yokel, how should I put it, informed in such matters? That's the impression I got.
    Thats the impression he likes to give, but when you actually know something about the subject, as I do about Syria, you find out he is just parroting some crap he read in some nutty Neocon journal or something. Charlatan.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    JWisemann said:

    JWisemann said:

    murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
    Do you completely discount that this could have been a false flag? We are talking about extremist al-Qaeda type jihadists in Douma, who parade women and children through the streets in cages because they are the wrong sect. You think it completely implausible they would stage and publicise fake attacks in order to give their sponsors (shamefully, prominently including the US and UK, in what will be a long lasting stain on our history) an excuse to try and help them before they are finally defeated for good? You'd have to be a bit thick, surely?

    Answer is yes and no I am not a bit thick
    Reasoning? Same as the Skripal poisoning, there is zero motive for the officially accused to have done it and plenty of motive from other parties. The Russians have been warning about a false flag in Douma for weeks. Its an almost exact replica of what happened this time last year, when the jihadis were getting heavily defeated in northern Hama.
    Among other things, the Russians have been murdering exiles/emigres/{whatever you want to call them} for nearly 100 years - why is it unbelievable that they have done it again?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    JWisemann said:

    JWisemann said:

    murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
    Do you completely discount that this could have been a false flag? We are talking about extremist al-Qaeda type jihadists in Douma, who parade women and children through the streets in cages because they are the wrong sect. You think it completely implausible they would stage and publicise fake attacks in order to give their sponsors (shamefully, prominently including the US and UK, in what will be a long lasting stain on our history) an excuse to try and help them before they are finally defeated for good? You'd have to be a bit thick, surely?

    Answer is yes and no I am not a bit thick
    Reasoning? Same as the Skripal poisoning, there is zero motive for the officially accused to have done it and plenty of motive from other parties. The Russians have been warning about a false flag in Douma for weeks. Its an almost exact replica of what happened this time last year, when the jihadis were getting heavily defeated in northern Hama.
    Among other things, the Russians have been murdering exiles/emigres/{whatever you want to call them} for nearly 100 years - why is it unbelievable that they have done it again?
    And I’d like to know who else has motive to kill some Russian ex-spies.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    JWisemann said:

    RobD said:

    JWisemann said:

    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
    Isn't Yokel, how should I put it, informed in such matters? That's the impression I got.
    Thats the impression he likes to give, but when you actually know something about the subject, as I do about Syria, you find out he is just parroting some crap he read in some nutty Neocon journal or something. Charlatan.
    What are your bona fides on Syria? What expertise do you have?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    JWisemann said:

    RobD said:

    JWisemann said:

    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
    Isn't Yokel, how should I put it, informed in such matters? That's the impression I got.
    Thats the impression he likes to give, but when you actually know something about the subject, as I do about Syria, you find out he is just parroting some crap he read in some nutty Neocon journal or something. Charlatan.
    Your knowledge is from the Russian side. So hardly impartial, comrade....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    JWisemann said:

    Y0kel said:

    Skripal murder attempt

    Just reposting two of the points made the other day in my biblically long post about this as more news is on its way out about why the UK genuinely believes its Russia.

    '5. This Novichok variant only ever had one active manufacturer. Russia. No other country has declared or indeed been subject to heavily weighed circumstantial or other evidence backed suspicion or confirmation by any verification body of having this Novichok variant in a production program.

    6. The original Novichok formulas have been developed since their existence was revealed, by one state as part of an active and again undeclared production and test program: Russia. '

    Syria: There appears to be limited US material sitting in the Med for an extensive missile strike similar to the one that was launched last year around this time. There are sea and subsea resources that could fire off a few dozen cruise missiles

    That of course assumes IF the US launches that it'll come from the Med.

    The Russians, despite the boasts about their prowess, can't cover every angle and you will not see a US craft in Syria airspace if the US just spend their days with stand off weapons. Anyway as long as their personnel don't get hit they probably will swallow it. Throw up an AD shield, possibly but maybe then only on a part of the country. Retaliate? The likelihood is small and ironically gets smaller the heavier the US go in. Bear in mind too that Assad himself barely has a military that he controls, a huge number of largely outside controlled proxies or Syrian personality militias are the best forces he has. The airforce and some command stuff is high on the make a point, limit risk list. Go and strike his proxy forces, it gets more messy.

    The options are already on the table for the US, they don't have to generate anything new. There was internal debate only weeks back on whether to launch a strike after other reports about chemical weapons use. Its really just if and how heavy.

    Edit: that decision on go or no-go by the US is reportedly due this evening, unless they sleep on it.

    Absolute nonsense from top to bottom. Where to begin? This guy is a joke.
    Glass houses, Mr Wisemann...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    JWisemann said:

    murali_s said:

    Is Corbyn facing the perfect storm

    Failure to condemn Russia over nerve agent attack

    Failure to deal with Anti Semitism

    Failure to condemn Russia and Iran over gas attack killing many children in Syria.

    His association with Russia, Iran, Hamas and anti west forces now front centre and across the media

    How many Tory MPs are criticising a rogue nation like Israel for the systematic and planned murder of Palestinian children day in day out? When will the UK government take action against state terrorism? Weak and pathetic is the usual response! Meanwhile a pariah nation like Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.
    On Israel Palestine I am neutral. I have visited both Israel and Jericho/Bethlehem and see faults on both sides

    However, my post is directed at the current issues on chemical and nerve agent use by Russia or supported by Russia and the war goung on in labour over anti semitism.

    Sky news tonight was terrible for Corbyn's inability to address the issues
    Do you completely discount that this could have been a false flag? We are talking about extremist al-Qaeda type jihadists in Douma, who parade women and children through the streets in cages because they are the wrong sect. You think it completely implausible they would stage and publicise fake attacks in order to give their sponsors (shamefully, prominently including the US and UK, in what will be a long lasting stain on our history) an excuse to try and help them before they are finally defeated for good? You'd have to be a bit thick, surely?

    Yes, utterly implausible to the point of lurid fantasy.
    As for ‘a bit thick’.... again with the glass houses.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    JWisemann said:

    RobD said:



    Isn't Yokel, how should I put it, informed in such matters? That's the impression I got.

    Thats the impression he likes to give, but when you actually know something about the subject, as I do about Syria, you find out he is just parroting some crap he read in some nutty Neocon journal or something. Charlatan.
    My impression FWIW is that Yokel does have good sources close to intelligence, but his info is only as good as they are - for example, he asserted confidently that Assad was toast when he wasn't (because they hadn't anticipated the Russian intervention). Nobody's right all the time...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    A massive win for Trump if he can deliver this.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,136

    murali_s said:

    kle4 said:

    Harriet Harman outs herself as the hacking victim.
    https://twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/983078689788387328

    Interesting both that the admission was made, and that the person hacked has not made more of a stink about it. While the 'youthful exuberance' excuse is bollocks as she was apparently 28 at the time, it certainly was juvenile.
    Because Harman would have to admit her password was "PASSWORD" or something equally embarrassingly weak!
    Hacking is a serious offence. She should be prosecuted and the book be thrown at her (one would hope that the UK is not a banana republic). I am guessing the sentence for such a crime is a significant custodial sentence?
    Actually, being hacked is a serious offence. It shows that you are not taking computer security seriously. You have a dumb password, or you are careless, or you are naive. It is unforgiveable for someone in Harman's position.

    It is Harman who is the guilty person.
    Most breaches tend to be the result of somebody doing something dumb, but fundamentally, computers cannot be secured. Even if you're careful and sophisticated you'll still lose to bad luck, or a sufficiently determined adversary. And in any case, everyone does dumb stuff from time to time.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Somebody appears to be busy in the air over Lebanon towards the Syrian border. It should be noted its a very common Israeli air force tactic to come in via the Med, straight over Lebanon.

    Strike, reece or whatever. It is not civilian.

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Something is going on, but who it is, is unknown.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    Yes, but you might not realise that half of these people want a referendum so that they can reject the sellout deal that May is putting together, not because they all want to vote for a softer Brexit.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    Yes, but you might not realise that half of these people want a referendum so that they can reject the sellout deal that May is putting together, not because they all want to vote for a softer Brexit.
    Like Brexit in reverse, it doesn't matter why people vote against what's on offer, as long as they do.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Yes, but you might not realise that half of these people want a referendum so that they can reject the sellout deal that May is putting together, not because they all want to vote for a softer Brexit.
    Like Brexit in reverse, it doesn't matter why people vote against what's on offer, as long as they do.
    Yes it does, because it depends on the two choices on offer in the hypothetical referendum. People wanting a referendum where rejection means staying in the EU are clearly different from those wanting a referendum because they prefer a no deal Brexit to whatever is negotiated. And any referendum couldn’t fudge which one is on offer (hint: it would be the latter)

This discussion has been closed.