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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How Labour need to stop worrying and learn to love the bomb

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  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    tlg86 said:

    TGOHF said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Another Oxford educated lawyer, they really are thick as mince, especially when it comes to presenting evidence to boost their case. Cf Blair and Gauke.
    If those criticising him had read economics, they’d be well aware that increasing demand while keeping supply constant leads to an increase in price.
    Certainly true for rents, perhaps less true for prices.
    Eh ?

    You think no immigrants have bought houses ? Or that those who have become new landlords by renting out to new immigrants haven't pushed up house prices by buying for themselves and for their tennants ?

    That anyone thinks Raab is incorrect shows the ignorance of economics in this country.

    I didn't say that it didn't have an effect, just that there's a multitude of factors.

    But the higher rents have certainly generated a sense that you have to get on the housing ladder as quickly as you can because it's actually cheaper in the short term and not just the long term. And, of course, higher rents makes saving for a deposit that much harder.
    http://ponyonthetories.blogspot.co.uk/2017/11/housing.html

    My blogpost on housing. Check the last graph for more or less proof of this.

    Thankfully I'm happily moved now and (hopefully) out the game for at least another 45 or so years now.
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    Wing-nut in chief..... in a cravat?

    https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/983222981995380736


    Amongst his supporters agreeing with this, one of the comments seems unfortunate..

    https://twitter.com/AbdulMahdiLab/status/983236051367092224

    David Cameron helped Chris Williamson lose his seat, Mrs May helped him win back his seat.

    The more I think about it that might be the worst thing Mrs May has ever done, worse than sacking George Osborne, making Gavin Williamson SecDef, appointing Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill her Chiefs of Staff, and losing Dave’s majority.
    I think you might just be right.... who knows how long it would have taken him to stop pretending to still be an MP after losing in 2015.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Sandpit said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Another Oxford educated lawyer, they really are thick as mince, especially when it comes to presenting evidence to boost their case. Cf Blair and Gauke.
    If those criticising him had read economics, they’d be well aware that increasing demand while keeping supply constant leads to an increase in price.
    Does anyone know how much house prices rose over the last 25 years?

    Plus didn’t Robert recently post some figures showing some of the biggest rises in house prices in the UK happened when there was virtually no immigration to the UK?
    About 220%, but with a lot of regional variation.
    image
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,820
    A different type of Labour leader could certainly eviscerate the Conservatives' record on defence and security issues, but Labour don't have that type of leader.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited April 2018

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So is today the day that the Home Secretary and her predecessor resign from the government and accept responsibility for their actions and the resultant increase in violent crime and murder?

    The above is my submission to the 'Questions to which the answer is "No"' file.

    Will Khan be resigning too then after London saw a higher murder rate than New York last month for the first time on his watch as Mayor?
    Its down to Police Cuts.

    Have you not read the Home Office report.

    Either Rudd has and she lied her ass off

    Or she hasnt in which case she should have

    I think the former is most likely
    Not entirely true, as TSE says the forces with the biggest rise in violent crime are not those with the biggest fall in police officers.

    More stop and search and dealing with minor crime first and a 'broken windows' policy is all part of the solution
    It’s difficult to know which is worse, that Rudd says she’s never read her own dept’s analysis on violent crime or knew its conclusions POLICE CUTS ‘LIKELY’ CONTRIBUTED TO SERIOUS RISE IN VIOLENT CRIME & covered it up.Incompetence or willingness to mislead
    The report does not say police cuts was the main cause of rising violent crime
  • Options
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Another Oxford educated lawyer, they really are thick as mince, especially when it comes to presenting evidence to boost their case. Cf Blair and Gauke.
    If those criticising him had read economics, they’d be well aware that increasing demand while keeping supply constant leads to an increase in price.
    Does anyone know how much house prices rose over the last 25 years?

    Plus didn’t Robert recently post some figures showing some of the biggest rises in house prices in the UK happened when there was virtually no immigration to the UK?
    About 220%, but with a lot of regional variation.
    image
    Cheers. So out of the 220% only 20% can be attributed to immigration.

    I wonder why Raab didn’t focus on the other 200%?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Excellent piece but the final paragraph overestimates Corbyn's humanity: I am certain that any serviceman no matter how working class or how damaged is a capitalist lackey/USA running dog/oppressor of our noble Irish brethren. See also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99jclQAOT7I
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Interesting. There's certainly a gut felling that fewer visible police on the street will lead to more crime, but is there hard evidence? I know there's anecdotes that putting cardboard policemen at the entrances to supermarkets reduces shoplifting, but is there any facts here?

    if so, then surely more stop and search for knives and guns would also be effective? Yes, I know this politics and generally fact-free but I just thought I'd ask.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. CD13, have vague memories of hearing that shops with a policeman sticker (life-size, I think) in the window actively deters criminals. It may simply be reminding them that they're doing illegal stuff and the store's employees are clued up.

    It must be the case that less searching increases the temptation to carry a weapon (if only for self-defence). The downside, getting caught, is diminished, and if others are tooling up then being the only pacifist in the village may make you feel less safe.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So is today the day that the Home Secretary and her predecessor resign from the government and accept responsibility for their actions and the resultant increase in violent crime and murder?

    The above is my submission to the 'Questions to which the answer is "No"' file.

    Will Khan be resigning too then after London saw a higher murder rate than New York last month for the first time on his watch as Mayor?
    Its down to Police Cuts.

    Have you not read the Home Office report.

    Either Rudd has and she lied her ass off

    Or she hasnt in which case she should have

    I think the former is most likely
    Not entirely true, as TSE says the forces with the biggest rise in violent crime are not those with the biggest fall in police officers.

    More stop and search and dealing with minor crime first and a 'broken windows' policy is all part of the solution
    It’s difficult to know which is worse, that Rudd says she’s never read her own dept’s analysis on violent crime or knew its conclusions POLICE CUTS ‘LIKELY’ CONTRIBUTED TO SERIOUS RISE IN VIOLENT CRIME & covered it up.Incompetence or willingness to mislead
    The report does not say police cuts was the main cause of rising violent crime
    Rudd said it was not a factor though
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.

    Absolutely. Interest rates being on the floor is hugely exacerbating the problem. It’s also exacerbating the perception of the problem, as young people compare “cheap” mortgage payments to “expensive” rent payments. Also remember that interest rates have been on the floor for 9 years already, so most people under 30 know nothing else.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.

    If there wasn't the increased "supply" of tenants from increased immigration that would not have been a good investment though. Direct or indirectly, immigration has driven up prices.

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,189
    TGOHF said:

    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.

    If there wasn't the increased "supply" of tenants from increased immigration that would not have been a good investment though. Direct or indirectly, immigration has driven up prices.

    That, I think, is a very fair point.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited April 2018
    CD13 said:

    Interesting. There's certainly a gut felling that fewer visible police on the street will lead to more crime, but is there hard evidence? I know there's anecdotes that putting cardboard policemen at the entrances to supermarkets reduces shoplifting, but is there any facts here?

    if so, then surely more stop and search for knives and guns would also be effective? Yes, I know this politics and generally fact-free but I just thought I'd ask.

    The problem with stop and search is that the vast majority find nothing so just increases any alienation already felt by those stopped. The IRA used to say the British Army was its best recruiting sergeant. Unsuccessful searches prove the gangs are right.

    But suppose that some new technology emerges so that only those carrying knives are stopped and searched (actually, is that possible? Some sort of AI-assisted metal detector?) so that only those actually carrying knives are stopped -- well, even that might not change things very much.

    Look at the incentives faced by the knife-carrier contemplating leaving his knife at home. The chances of being stopped and searched are still remote, but the penalty for facing an armed opponent is death.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    I'm looking to buy in south London.

    I can expect to pay ~£850pcm for a one bed flat in rent.

    The alternative is looking to buy. I could get a 2 bed flat for £350,000, which at five year fixed is £750pcm in interest (and £750pcm in capital repayment) which is cheaper than the rent on a place half the size.

    Of course, I do require £40k up front and ~£65k p.a. income for the mortgage. I am one of the fortunate few, insofar as soon I will be able to afford it (d.v.). But that's about peak performance for many couples.

  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    tlg86 said:

    TGOHF said:

    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.

    If there wasn't the increased "supply" of tenants from increased immigration that would not have been a good investment though. Direct or indirectly, immigration has driven up prices.

    That, I think, is a very fair point.
    The google maps view of east London 'gardens' is always good for a laugh and gives some idea of where the "extra" people in the UK are fitted.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    TGOHF said:

    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.

    If there wasn't the increased "supply" of tenants from increased immigration that would not have been a good investment though. Direct or indirectly, immigration has driven up prices.

    That, I think, is a very fair point.
    The google maps view of east London 'gardens' is always good for a laugh and gives some idea of where the "extra" people in the UK are fitted.
    Plus all the living rooms that aren't in what should be two-bed flats right across London.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
    In Kensington and Chelsea the average flat price is £1.6 million

    http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices-in-Kensington-And-Chelsea.html
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,993



    There needs to be a culture change, where a tour in procurement immediately after a command or combat tour is seen as the final leavening before promotion, with an intervening training course in acquisition and programme management skills. Maybe that would help.

    The three year tours are one of the biggest issues with procurement and program management. The first year is spent working out what the fuck is going on, the second year is the only productive period and third is spent trying to get posted as the defence attache to Canberra.

    The US, who are by no means perfect at procurement but a hell of a lot better than the UK, post officers to procurement efforts on different terms. They stay in position with the project until it complete and own the result. There is much more continuity of management and it's seen as a career maker for aspirant talent rather than a boring detour on the way to something more interesting.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Ace, there's something awry with the quote. It seems perfectly sensible*, but I didn't say it.

    *Some scurrilous curs would assert that that should've been your first clue it wasn't me.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    TGOHF said:

    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.

    If there wasn't the increased "supply" of tenants from increased immigration that would not have been a good investment though. Direct or indirectly, immigration has driven up prices.

    Yes and no. It is not just supply and demand. Housing benefits effectively place a floor under rents. Though intended to help tenants, they also subsidise landlords.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    TGOHF said:

    House price inflation has been significantly impacted by interest rates on deposits for cash being negligible for such a long period. Wealthy people have put their money in a second property. The value of that property has gone up, so more have piled in - even in those places where immigration isn't a factor.

    If there wasn't the increased "supply" of tenants from increased immigration that would not have been a good investment though. Direct or indirectly, immigration has driven up prices.

    Would have happened anyway. The increased "supply" of tenants just made it a no-brainer as a safe haven for otherwise unproductive cash.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    edited April 2018

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    So is today the day that the Home Secretary and her predecessor resign from the government and accept responsibility for their actions and the resultant increase in violent crime and murder?

    The above is my submission to the 'Questions to which the answer is "No"' file.

    Will Khan be resigning too then after London saw a higher murder rate than New York last month for the first time on his watch as Mayor?
    Its down to Police Cuts.

    Have you not read the Home Office report.

    Either Rudd has and she lied her ass off

    Or she hasnt in which case she should have

    I think the former is most likely
    Not entirely true, as TSE says the forces with the biggest rise in violent crime are not those with the biggest fall in police officers.

    More stop and search and dealing with minor crime first and a 'broken windows' policy is all part of the solution
    It’s difficult to know which is worse, that Rudd says she’s never read her own dept’s analysis on violent crime or knew its conclusions POLICE CUTS ‘LIKELY’ CONTRIBUTED TO SERIOUS RISE IN VIOLENT CRIME & covered it up.Incompetence or willingness to mislead
    The report does not say police cuts was the main cause of rising violent crime
    Rudd said it was not a factor though
    Incorrect, she acknowledged that it was a factor but also, rightly because that seems to be what the report said also, said that there were other factors. As I remember it, the leaked report, as stated, didn't say it was the primary factor. But perhaps you can correct me if you have a copy of said leaked report in front of you?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    Anazina said:
    How many of them, like me, would be happy with a referendum on a Noel Edmunds basis?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    Mr. Mark, Grieve's 'meaningful vote' makes it a possibility, though I agree it's unlikely.

    The man in question saying he had no idea what would happen if a negotiated deal were voted down does not speak well of him.
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    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807
    JWisemann said:

    Pretty angry right now that the corrupt and discredited transatlantic security establishment seems determined to push us to the brink of nuclear war to protect our jihadi army in Syria. They need to accept they lost and we should have never supported genocidal salafist jihadis in the first place, and move on.

    Sorry to hear you are pretty angry... I was interest to read your contention on the last thread that Russia has been warning about a false flag action in Douma; why, it’s almost as if they knew it was going to happen.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Rudd vs Raab. Is it possible to produce a consistent defence of both ministers? One who exaggerated a single causal factor while the other denied one.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Rexel56 said:

    JWisemann said:

    Pretty angry right now that the corrupt and discredited transatlantic security establishment seems determined to push us to the brink of nuclear war to protect our jihadi army in Syria. They need to accept they lost and we should have never supported genocidal salafist jihadis in the first place, and move on.

    Sorry to hear you are pretty angry... I was interest to read your contention on the last thread that Russia has been warning about a false flag action in Douma; why, it’s almost as if they knew it was going to happen.
    If Russia is behind it then not sending in British gunboats seems like a sound policy. Let's leave this one to the Americans and not worry too much if the government's current position on the need to gather evidence sounds alarmingly Corbynite.
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    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
    You can get a luxury 2 bed apartment directly overlooking the sea and coast for about £325,000 here
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105

    Mr. Mark, Grieve's 'meaningful vote' makes it a possibility, though I agree it's unlikely.

    The man in question saying he had no idea what would happen if a negotiated deal were voted down does not speak well of him.

    After Cameron and Osborne, who have left the field of battle, Grieve has been the most damaged by the Referendum.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Anazina said:
    Less than 50% do and irrelevant anyway while the Tories and Corbyn Labour oppose a second EU referendum
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Surely the interesting development is that it has been leaked.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Why would Syria be involved in directing KGB assassins? It makes no sense.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
    Emphasises, does it not, the gulf between some at least City salaries and ‘others”?

    My teacher grandson and his fiancee have bought....are buying on a mortgage, having had some help with the deposit......a two bed former council house in SE Essex for (IIRC) £260k. Which they can just afford, assuming there isn’t a significant rise in the cost of mortgages too soon. They both know they could do better elsewhere, but there are good family reasons why they want to stay in that area.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Why would Syria be involved in directing KGB assassins? It makes no sense.
    Plenty of Russkies in Syria as we know, and presumably they didn’t fly straight back to Moscow to make it more difficult to work out who was responsible.

    Last time the Bear f’ed up on British soil, they left a radioactive trail pointing straight back at the perps.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    The only sense in which he's blundered is in daring to oppose one of the liberal elite's most cherished beliefs which is that immigration hasn't driven up house prices.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Why would Syria be involved in directing KGB assassins? It makes no sense.
    1. From Syria doesn't necessarily mean Syrians. 2. It wouldn't be the first time Russia has acted with another state to poison someone.
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    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,300

    Mr. Mark, Grieve's 'meaningful vote' makes it a possibility, though I agree it's unlikely.

    The man in question saying he had no idea what would happen if a negotiated deal were voted down does not speak well of him.

    After Cameron and Osborne, who have left the field of battle, Grieve has been the most damaged by the Referendum.
    Twaddle. Grieve is a hero and a champion for democracy and the rule of law.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Why would Syria be involved in directing KGB assassins? It makes no sense.
    Plenty of Russkies in Syria as we know, and presumably they didn’t fly straight back to Moscow to make it more difficult to work out who was responsible.

    Last time the Bear f’ed up on British soil, they left a radioactive trail pointing straight back at the perps.
    Or, the Russians wanted it to be intercepted (or at least didn't care) and were testing whether MI6 were listening.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    edited April 2018
    Anazina said:
    They have only got this result by failing to make clear on the first question that a vote to reject the deal would mean Britain stays in the EU on current terms, which isn’t even in the British government’s gift. They separated the two questions on accept/reject the deal and EU membership to get the result they want.

    It’s highly disengenuous.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Mr. Mark, Grieve's 'meaningful vote' makes it a possibility, though I agree it's unlikely.

    The man in question saying he had no idea what would happen if a negotiated deal were voted down does not speak well of him.

    After Cameron and Osborne, who have left the field of battle, Grieve has been the most damaged by the Referendum.
    Twaddle. Grieve is a hero and a champion for democracy and the rule of law.
    And yet he's lost the sod on which to stand
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    AndyJS said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    The only sense in which he's blundered is in daring to oppose one of the liberal elite's most cherished beliefs which is that immigration hasn't driven up house prices.
    TBH I thought immigration had helped housebuilding by providing a great deal of labour at reduced prices.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    AndyJS said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    The only sense in which he's blundered is in daring to oppose one of the liberal elite's most cherished beliefs which is that immigration hasn't driven up house prices.
    TBH I thought immigration had helped housebuilding by providing a great deal of labour at reduced prices.
    They are not mutually contradictory!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    edited April 2018
    O/t, but a slightly different take on elderly people and conservative voting. It’s from Third Age Matters, the magazine of the U3a.
    People in affluent areas, or who see themselves as affluent tend to vote Conservative.
    Women tend, or at least tended, to vote Conservative.
    People in affluent areas tend to live longer than those in less affluent ones.
    Women live longer that men.
    Hence in the the population over 65 there is an inherent skew towards Conservative voting.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    AndyJS said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    The only sense in which he's blundered is in daring to oppose one of the liberal elite's most cherished beliefs which is that immigration hasn't driven up house prices.
    TBH I thought immigration had helped housebuilding by providing a great deal of labour at reduced prices.
    They are not mutually contradictory!
    LOL. Not entirely!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Why would Syria be involved in directing KGB assassins? It makes no sense.
    Plenty of Russkies in Syria as we know, and presumably they didn’t fly straight back to Moscow to make it more difficult to work out who was responsible.

    Last time the Bear f’ed up on British soil, they left a radioactive trail pointing straight back at the perps.
    Or, the Russians wanted it to be intercepted (or at least didn't care) and were testing whether MI6 were listening.
    Possibly, although I’m not sure they understand what exactly GCHQ do all day.

    I still don’t think they knew we’d work out what exactly was the chemical weapon, ignoring the fact that the identity of the primary victim gave a bloody big clue as to who might have been responsible.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    RoyalBlue said:

    Anazina said:
    They have only got this result by failing to make clear on the first question that a vote to reject the deal would mean Britain stays in the EU on current terms, which isn’t even in the British government’s gift. They separated the two questions on accept/reject the deal and EU membership to get the result they want.

    It’s highly disengenuous.
    According to 'RoyalBlue' – an anonymous bloke on the internet.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,039

    Mr. Mark, Grieve's 'meaningful vote' makes it a possibility, though I agree it's unlikely.

    The man in question saying he had no idea what would happen if a negotiated deal were voted down does not speak well of him.

    After Cameron and Osborne, who have left the field of battle, Grieve has been the most damaged by the Referendum.
    Twaddle. Grieve is a hero and a champion for democracy and the rule of law.
    And yet he's lost the sod on which to stand
    I can think of a few sods that need to be stood upon..
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Why would Syria be involved in directing KGB assassins? It makes no sense.
    Plenty of Russkies in Syria as we know, and presumably they didn’t fly straight back to Moscow to make it more difficult to work out who was responsible.

    Last time the Bear f’ed up on British soil, they left a radioactive trail pointing straight back at the perps.
    Or, the Russians wanted it to be intercepted (or at least didn't care) and were testing whether MI6 were listening.
    Possibly, although I’m not sure they understand what exactly GCHQ do all day.

    I still don’t think they knew we’d work out what exactly was the chemical weapon, ignoring the fact that the identity of the primary victim gave a bloody big clue as to who might have been responsible.
    Maybe not the exact agent. But the idea of using a nerve agent of any sort, against a dissident, on UK soil, and then a half-hearted attempt to divert blame does all point to a desire to ensure that even if not formally identified as the culprit then at least other dissidents might believe them to be.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think they knew we’d work out what exactly was the chemical weapon, ignoring the fact that the identity of the primary victim gave a bloody big clue as to who might have been responsible.

    If Skripal had died alone in his home I do wonder if the government might have reacted differently.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,538
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Did you see that one of the Russian scientists who developed the agents (not a defector & still resident in Russia) also blames Putin:
    https://www.ft.com/content/3c279804-3b44-11e8-b7e0-52972418fec4
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    A very interesting article, thanks Dura Ace.

    However, I fear your suggestions won't go anywhere. Labour under Corbyn, especially with Seumas Milne pulling most of the strings, hasn't got the slightest interest in defence; if anything, they side with those against whom we are trying to defend ourselves.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,868

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
    You can get a luxury 2 bed apartment directly overlooking the sea and coast for about £325,000 here
    Mansion here for that. I have a nice modern 4 bedroom detached , 21/2 bath, near countryside, not huge but reasonably good size , and it is probably not much over 210K and has not gone up significantly since I bought 10 years ago.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    edited April 2018

    Mr. Mark, Grieve's 'meaningful vote' makes it a possibility, though I agree it's unlikely.

    The man in question saying he had no idea what would happen if a negotiated deal were voted down does not speak well of him.

    After Cameron and Osborne, who have left the field of battle, Grieve has been the most damaged by the Referendum.
    Twaddle. Grieve is a hero and a champion for democracy and the rule of law.
    In his own mind....

    EDIT and in the mind of those who would never, ever vote for him...
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    glw said:

    Sandpit said:

    I still don’t think they knew we’d work out what exactly was the chemical weapon, ignoring the fact that the identity of the primary victim gave a bloody big clue as to who might have been responsible.

    If Skripal had died alone in his home I do wonder if the government might have reacted differently.
    That’s an interesting counterfactual. If no-one else was affected (ambulance staff, mortuary workers) it may well have been just another unexplained death to add to the long list of Russia’s enemies who passed away in the UK, with little public comment.

    That others were seriously injured, including a policeman, and that the event played out in public spaces have certainly made the story much bigger than it would otherwise have been.

    The Russian reaction also makes it quite clear who was behind it - otherwise they’d have gone bonkers about their own innocent female victim.
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    Dan Hodges is making an interesting comparison about Jezza's waffle vs protest...

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/982606236800741376

    https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/983101179310768128
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881
    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    As opposed to the “democrats” who wish not to see the result of the largest democratic exercise in British history implemented.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
    You can get a luxury 2 bed apartment directly overlooking the sea and coast for about £325,000 here
    Mansion here for that. I have a nice modern 4 bedroom detached , 21/2 bath, near countryside, not huge but reasonably good size , and it is probably not much over 210K and has not gone up significantly since I bought 10 years ago.
    How do you have 0.5 of a bathroom?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Sandpit said:
    Like the Freudian slip in the spelling of the word ‘junket’!
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
    You can get a luxury 2 bed apartment directly overlooking the sea and coast for about £325,000 here
    Mansion here for that. I have a nice modern 4 bedroom detached , 21/2 bath, near countryside, not huge but reasonably good size , and it is probably not much over 210K and has not gone up significantly since I bought 10 years ago.
    How do you have 0.5 of a bathroom?
    Room with just a washbasin and toilet ?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    Pulpstar said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One of the Tories great leadership hopes, may have blundered:

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/983255173651812352

    Raab was right, immigration with lack of transition controls in 2004 certainly contributed to higher house prices added to by the downward pressure on wages for those on lower wages.

    However lack of housebuilding, banks lending too much etc all added to the problem
    No-one who lives in Mid and N Essex, I’m sure, thinks there’s a lack of housebuilding. However, as I commented the other day, when new-build one-beds are advetised at £300k+ there’s a lack of affordability. And while land prices unquestionably play a part, there does seem to be a difference in costs and returns somewhere.
    I have got a new built 1 bed for under £300k in South Essex so there is still plenty of more affordable housing around but it is getting it built and past LD and Residents Association opposition that is the problem.
    The mind boggles at how 1 bed flats around 300k can possibly be called "affordable" but hey ho...
    The average flat price in Essex is £219 000 but plenty of commuters who work in the City will pay more than £300 000 for a flat

    https://m.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/essex/
    Bloody Hell a flat can cost £300k
    You can get a luxury 2 bed apartment directly overlooking the sea and coast for about £325,000 here
    Mansion here for that. I have a nice modern 4 bedroom detached , 21/2 bath, near countryside, not huge but reasonably good size , and it is probably not much over 210K and has not gone up significantly since I bought 10 years ago.
    How do you have 0.5 of a bathroom?
    Room with just a washbasin and toilet ?
    Ensuite, surely
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    King Cole, two proper bathrooms (ie with showers/baths) and one with just a lavatory and sink?

    That said, halves can be a daft way of putting it. Like a one and a half-basin sink. Although it does remind me of the old maths question:
    It takes one man eight hours to dig one hole. How long does it take two men to dig half a hole?

    [Answer = it is not possible to dig half a hole].
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    Rexel56Rexel56 Posts: 807

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting development if true. Message intercepted between Syria and Moscow on the day of the Salisbury attacks: “The package has been delivered, two people have made a successful egress”
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5593803/RAF-spooks-intercepted-Russian-message-Skripals-posioned.html

    Why would Syria be involved in directing KGB assassins? It makes no sense.
    If the nerve agent involved had been produced or stored in a facility in Syria set up by the Russians it might explain the intercepted message and why Porton Down cannot state exactly where it was produced..
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    Thank you for a very interesting article.

    I agree that focus on the people in the forces and veterans is needed. This is something that any decent party should offer, not as part of some anti-austerity drive or to make a class point.

    One question: what about cyber warfare? Is that not something worthy of focus and intelligent investment?
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    I am not trying anything. I am merely reporting the news of a poll, I thought that was the point of politicalbetting.com ?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,917
    edited April 2018

    King Cole, two proper bathrooms (ie with showers/baths) and one with just a lavatory and sink?

    That said, halves can be a daft way of putting it. Like a one and a half-basin sink. Although it does remind me of the old maths question:
    It takes one man eight hours to dig one hole. How long does it take two men to dig half a hole?

    [Answer = it is not possible to dig half a hole].

    According to US definitions (Which look very sensible actually), a "full" bathroom consists of shower, bath, washbasin and toilet.
    Each element therefore makes up a 1/4 of a 'bathroom'; my house for instance would be described as 1 3/4 bathrooms according to the US standards (1 bathroom, 1 shower-room both with sinks and toilets)

    https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/what-is-a-half-bath/
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    Why on earth should it be restricted to those who voted Leave? What an absurd suggestion.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,976
    edited April 2018
    Mr. Pulpstar, that implies you could have a quarter bathroom. What kind of depraved soul would want a bathroom that consisted of a lavatory without a washbasin.

    Edited extra bit: corrected punctuation. Also, don't forget to check my wonderful post-race ramble: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/bahrain-post-race-analysis.html
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    Why on earth should it be restricted to those who voted Leave? What an absurd suggestion.
    No more absurd than wanting "Best of Three". At least my position has the merit of asking those who voted Leave what type of Leave they want. Those who voted Remain have foregone their opportunity for a voice in that.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    Mr. Pulpstar, that implies you could have a quarter bathroom. What kind of depraved soul would want a bathroom that consisted of a lavatory without a washbasin.

    Edited extra bit: corrected punctuation. Also, don't forget to check my wonderful post-race ramble: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2018/04/bahrain-post-race-analysis.html

    One could have a washbasin without a toilet.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,039
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    Why on earth should it be restricted to those who voted Leave? What an absurd suggestion.
    You must never forget that this is the Brexiters' ball and no one else gets to play with it.

    Except when the ball gets a puncture, or the opposition fans start booing, or the (foreign) referee makes a dodgy decision. Then we must all rally round Leavechester Rovers.
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814
    On housing, the land issue is also key.
    A big chunk of the cost of the new-build houses is the land price (bigger as a proportion than before, and especially so in the areas of highest price).
    The price of land with permission to build has accelerated faster even than house prices, which signals that the issue is at least partly with the planning/regulatory/permissions area, especially when you look at the level of uplift in prices when land switches from, say, paddock land to housing land.
    Construction companies, with the increase in demand, find themselves bidding up land prices. As soon as they've acquired it, they have to sell the house at a certain (high) price, or incur a loss on the land. If there's a crash, they literally can't afford to build - holding the land and waiting for prices to go back up is the rational outcome; building and selling at a loss solidifies the loss and makes it appear in cashflow.

    The proposal which periodically surfaces of having authorities (or companies) able to buy land at the pre-uplift value (or even giving a fraction of the uplift value to the landowner - who has usually done nothing to earn the windfall) can make a big difference, and I believe this is done in other countries.

    A root and branch reform of the planning system with presumption to build, abolition of the archaic and unhelpful green belt legislation, and land value tax on the unimproved value of land plus permissions would alpmst certainly help an awful lot - but would very probably be politically "controversial" or even "courageous" in the extreme.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    Dan Hodges is making an interesting comparison about Jezza's waffle vs protest...

    twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/982606236800741376

    twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/983101179310768128

    Jezza, the useful idiot of dictators worldwide...
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814
    Dura_Ace said:



    There needs to be a culture change, where a tour in procurement immediately after a command or combat tour is seen as the final leavening before promotion, with an intervening training course in acquisition and programme management skills. Maybe that would help.

    The three year tours are one of the biggest issues with procurement and program management. The first year is spent working out what the fuck is going on, the second year is the only productive period and third is spent trying to get posted as the defence attache to Canberra.

    The US, who are by no means perfect at procurement but a hell of a lot better than the UK, post officers to procurement efforts on different terms. They stay in position with the project until it complete and own the result. There is much more continuity of management and it's seen as a career maker for aspirant talent rather than a boring detour on the way to something more interesting.
    It would be very good, but especially if it means you stay with a project until complete, it really would look like a diversion on the way up. If you're posted in to a project that may take eight years, unless you can get promoted in place, your chances of top rank are gone the moment the Desk Officer tells you of where you're going.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592

    O/t, but a slightly different take on elderly people and conservative voting. It’s from Third Age Matters, the magazine of the U3a.
    People in affluent areas, or who see themselves as affluent tend to vote Conservative.
    Women tend, or at least tended, to vote Conservative.
    People in affluent areas tend to live longer than those in less affluent ones.
    Women live longer that men.
    Hence in the the population over 65 there is an inherent skew towards Conservative voting.

    Yes, that is part of the explanation, though women voting Conservative is perhaps only a historical phenomenon, and the next generation much more Labour inclined.

    The Social Class aspect is also significant in that life expectancy in well off demographics is about 10 years longer than the most deprived, with longer good health of 17 years or so. The elderly are both more female and more affluent in origin.

    This does have some significance if current trends continue. Social Class patterns of voting have significantly altered recently, as gender patterns have too. If the Tories are reliant on Brexity C2DE white males, while Labour on ABC1 Females, then the age profile of party voters is going to push in one direction.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    edited April 2018
    Good article.

    Couple of issues, tho.

    First, given the already questionable perception of Lab wrt patriotism, national pride, and so forth, I can't see an "East of Skeggie Only" policy which explicitly rules out ME adventures as playing well, even though it is nothing if not realistic. Witness Lab's post-Iraq 2005 GE result; people might think a retreat (!) from the global stage is either the tip of the iceberg or a cover for a more pacifist-orientated defence policy, and Lab voters have shown they don't all approve of that.

    Secondly, as I've been out of it for several years, and as I remember it, there was always the wrong kit facing the wrong threat (soft-skinned rovers for no green vehicle moves in NI, or a few Challengers facing the 3rd Shock Army in BAOR), I am interested to know why previous defence decisions were poor, beyond all of them previously also being poor (remember MARILYN?).

    I just don't think the British Public, and not just the bowls clubs is ready for the admission that we are a peripheral supporting player these days. Much as it might be overwhelmingly obvious to the likes of you and me, we as a nation are not great at accepting cold hard truths in any policy area.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    Why on earth should it be restricted to those who voted Leave? What an absurd suggestion.
    You must never forget that this is the Brexiters' ball and no one else gets to play with it.

    Except when the ball gets a puncture, or the opposition fans start booing, or the (foreign) referee makes a dodgy decision. Then we must all rally round Leavechester Rovers.
    Ha ha! Yes, it does seem that way. What a fitting analogy.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    Why on earth should it be restricted to those who voted Leave? What an absurd suggestion.
    No more absurd than wanting "Best of Three". At least my position has the merit of asking those who voted Leave what type of Leave they want. Those who voted Remain have foregone their opportunity for a voice in that.
    What antidemocratic bilge you spout. By that thinking, if I don't vote for the government of the day I concede the right to have any say in how they are running the country? Say I vote Green or Ukip, I have no right to praise or criticise or try to influence how the Tory or Labour administration makes policy? What utter tripe. Go back to bed.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,538
    Dura_Ace said:



    There needs to be a culture change, where a tour in procurement immediately after a command or combat tour is seen as the final leavening before promotion, with an intervening training course in acquisition and programme management skills. Maybe that would help.

    The three year tours are one of the biggest issues with procurement and program management. The first year is spent working out what the fuck is going on, the second year is the only productive period and third is spent trying to get posted as the defence attache to Canberra.

    The US, who are by no means perfect at procurement but a hell of a lot better than the UK, post officers to procurement efforts on different terms. They stay in position with the project until it complete and own the result. There is much more continuity of management and it's seen as a career maker for aspirant talent rather than a boring detour on the way to something more interesting.
    Do you not like the idea of separating procurement out to a completely independent agency ?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    BREAKING The Home Office ‘Serious Violence Strategy’ - stretching to 114 pages - makes no mention of police resources or officer number cuts
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Pulpstar said:

    King Cole, two proper bathrooms (ie with showers/baths) and one with just a lavatory and sink?

    That said, halves can be a daft way of putting it. Like a one and a half-basin sink. Although it does remind me of the old maths question:
    It takes one man eight hours to dig one hole. How long does it take two men to dig half a hole?

    [Answer = it is not possible to dig half a hole].

    According to US definitions (Which look very sensible actually), a "full" bathroom consists of shower, bath, washbasin and toilet.
    Each element therefore makes up a 1/4 of a 'bathroom'; my house for instance would be described as 1 3/4 bathrooms according to the US standards (1 bathroom, 1 shower-room both with sinks and toilets)

    https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/what-is-a-half-bath/
    If it doesn't have bidet with full-strength undercarriage squirter than it shouldn't be considered a full-blown bathroom.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,592
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    I am not trying anything. I am merely reporting the news of a poll, I thought that was the point of politicalbetting.com ?
    The practical issue is that there simply isn't enough time for primary legislation for a second referendum on terms, or at least not without an A50 extension.

    It is conceivable that there could be one on an Association Agreement with the EU27, on the terms of any Trade plus deal, but even this is not likely to be ready until well past Transition ends. This would mean that such a deal would be a step back towards the EU after WTO terms for a period, unless Transition is itself extended.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    Word how the so-called 'democrats' of the brexiteer right are scared of the people. Are they afraid of the electorate changing their minds? It would seem so!
    We'll have another referendum - so long as it is restricted to those who voted Leave, deciding whether to accept the Leave deal negotiated, or Leave on WTO terms?

    Would that do you? Or are you still f*cking trying to get another chance to overturn the earlier vote? I think we can guess which....
    Why on earth should it be restricted to those who voted Leave? What an absurd suggestion.
    No more absurd than wanting "Best of Three". At least my position has the merit of asking those who voted Leave what type of Leave they want. Those who voted Remain have foregone their opportunity for a voice in that.
    What antidemocratic bilge you spout. By that thinking, if I don't vote for the government of the day I concede the right to have any say in how they are running the country? Say I vote Green or Ukip, I have no right to praise or criticise or try to influence how the Tory or Labour administration makes policy? What utter tripe. Go back to bed.
    Rattled?
This discussion has been closed.