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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The commentators blaming TMay for the Windrush affair are righ

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited April 17 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The commentators blaming TMay for the Windrush affair are right – she not ARudd but should be carrying the can

The Windrush scandal is Theresa May’s creation, borne of an innate inability to equate ‘immigrant’ with ‘person’. It’s a hefty accusation, I know, but it makes sense of almost everything she’s done since 2010. Lying about a cat; Go Home vans; subsuming Ukip; EU citizens as cards.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Amber Rudd must go for this.

    That is my impartial view and nothing to do with me tipping Rudd as next out of the cabinet at 33/1
  • Primus inter pares ?
  • I agree with Charlie Falconer.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,224

    Primus inter pares ?

    No - I was first but I just decided not to comment
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890

    I agree with Charlie Falconer.

    Did such things not happen when Charlie Falconer was in office?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 2,837

    Primus inter pares ?

    No - I was first but I just decided not to comment
    A policy that many politicians would be wise to adopt.
  • I also fear that Michael Crick is right.

    Long before Brexit the Home Office couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    From a parallel dimension:
    I think it likely she'll survive this year, but not see the next election. This is just one more significant weak spot.

    Replacing her means another leader taking the inevitable hit from the deal leaving the EU. I suspect the PCP will want to hold on until next year before changing their leader.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,224
    philiph said:

    Primus inter pares ?

    No - I was first but I just decided not to comment
    A policy that many politicians would be wise to adopt.
    Indeed!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 42,750
    Has her Salisbury boost fizzled out? Survation at the weekend had the Tories slashing the Labour lead to 0 and the 2 parties tied and Survation is supposedly the 'gold standard' pollster.

    May has also confirmed the government will ensure no one from the Windrush generation will be deported which all bar the most militant BNP or UKIP voter will agree with
  • I guess this is what happens when you view (three million) people as bargaining chips and not human beings.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,828

    Amber Rudd must go for this.

    That is my impartial view and nothing to do with me tipping Rudd as next out of the cabinet at 33/1

    If people have been imprisoned unlawfully that would make it a justice issue.

    Gauke must go!
  • hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,552
    tlg86 said:

    Amber Rudd must go for this.

    That is my impartial view and nothing to do with me tipping Rudd as next out of the cabinet at 33/1

    If people have been imprisoned unlawfully that would make it a justice issue.

    Gauke must go!
    Nokes must go too!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Eagles, good job of conflating two wildly different situations, and ignoring that May wanted an early reciprocal agreement on the matter of EU/British citizens living in the other land, and the EU/Merkel said no.

    That said, I agree Rudd must go. And Mordaunt must replace her.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676
    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.
  • tlg86 said:

    Amber Rudd must go for this.

    That is my impartial view and nothing to do with me tipping Rudd as next out of the cabinet at 33/1

    If people have been imprisoned unlawfully that would make it a justice issue.

    Gauke must go!
    Nah, deportations are the responsibility of the Home Office.

    That said I would win £610 if Gauke goes, so I won’t complain.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 8,576

    Amber Rudd must go for this.

    That is my impartial view and nothing to do with me tipping Rudd as next out of the cabinet at 33/1

    Amber Rudd (now 6/1 with shadsy) is safe while she is a human shield for her predecessor. The one to keep an eye on is Jeremy Hunt (16/1). We know from the reshuffle that Theresa May wanted to move him, and although he seems to have got away with blaming his accountant, Labour is said to have complained to the standards commissioner which means the issue may return. I expect Seamus will be trawling through Hansard looking for anything that can be spun as a conflict of interest.
  • Mr. Eagles, good job of conflating two wildly different situations, and ignoring that May wanted an early reciprocal agreement on the matter of EU/British citizens living in the other land, and the EU/Merkel said no.

    That said, I agree Rudd must go. And Mordaunt must replace her.

    Nah. We should have been the better party.

    It speaks to a mentality.

    Even the EU are taking the piss/trolling us.

  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 906
    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    So the electorate is to blame? Glad we’ve cleared that up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594

    Amber Rudd must go for this.

    That is my impartial view and nothing to do with me tipping Rudd as next out of the cabinet at 33/1

    Couldn’t agree more!

    She’s 6/1 next out now.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Eagles, to be expected. They also took the piss when they renamed the Constitution the Lisbon Treaty, and when they offered Cameron sod all in negotiation only to discover that the British aren't as pro-EU as they'd hoped.

    A little less piss-taking and a little more thinking would go down well.
  • Amber Rudd must go for this.

    That is my impartial view and nothing to do with me tipping Rudd as next out of the cabinet at 33/1

    Amber Rudd (now 6/1 with shadsy) is safe while she is a human shield for her predecessor. The one to keep an eye on is Jeremy Hunt (16/1). We know from the reshuffle that Theresa May wanted to move him, and although he seems to have got away with blaming his accountant, Labour is said to have complained to the standards commissioner which means the issue may return. I expect Seamus will be trawling through Hansard looking for anything that can be spun as a conflict of interest.
    Hunt is safe. He reported correctly to the Parliamentary authorities.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 1,593
    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.
    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.
    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Indeed, most of the consequences from the Brexit vote have so far been unintended. That is being charitable to the Conservatives, of course.
  • TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Nah, it's just numpty people in positions of power that they aren't fit to be in. I voted leave, and thought that government were supposed to be able to handle the big stuff. I was wrong.
    Given what I know now, would I change my vote? Probably, but not because I think leaving was wrong, just that the government charged with completing the task aren't competent to fulfill that task. .
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    So the electorate is to blame? Glad we’ve cleared that up.
    The electorate is always to blame.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 5,237
    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Exactly. Rudd told the Commons yesterday that the Home Office had become too focussed on policy, but the problem is that this is the policy, the policy is to demand extremely high levels of paperwork as proof and require 100% compliance in order to minimise the number of people allowed to stay.

    Much as I'd be happy to see Rudd and May go for being responsible for implementing this policy the British people really need to be honest with themselves about what they want most. Do they want to be reasonable and nice to people who have become part of their local community, or do they want to cut the numbers down as far as possible?

    There is no massive reservoir of undesirable immigrants that everyone can feel good about kicking out of the country in order to square the circle.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    So the electorate is to blame? Glad we’ve cleared that up.
    The electorate is always to blame.
    The bastards.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Nah, it's just numpty people in positions of power that they aren't fit to be in. I voted leave, and thought that government were supposed to be able to handle the big stuff. I was wrong.
    Given what I know now, would I change my vote? Probably, but not because I think leaving was wrong, just that the government charged with completing the task aren't competent to fulfill that task. .
    Yep. And prior to 2010, or 1997, or 1989, or... the people in power were supremely able.

    We know the kind of people who govern us. And we should vote accordingly.
  • TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Nah, it's just numpty people in positions of power that they aren't fit to be in. I voted leave, and thought that government were supposed to be able to handle the big stuff. I was wrong.
    Given what I know now, would I change my vote? Probably, but not because I think leaving was wrong, just that the government charged with completing the task aren't competent to fulfill that task. .
    To be fair I don’t think there’s any government that could deliver what Vote Leave promised.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    Twitter

    Severin [email protected]

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    So the electorate is to blame? Glad we’ve cleared that up.
    The electorate is always to blame.
    The bastards.
    Even Socrates had problems creating the Republic and there wasn’t even an electorate to answer to when he was doing it.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416

    I also fear that Michael Crick is right.

    Long before Brexit the Home Office couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.

    Are any government departments competent ?
  • I also fear that Michael Crick is right.

    Long before Brexit the Home Office couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.

    Are any government departments competent ?
    Yup.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Nah, it's just numpty people in positions of power that they aren't fit to be in. I voted leave, and thought that government were supposed to be able to handle the big stuff. I was wrong.
    Given what I know now, would I change my vote? Probably, but not because I think leaving was wrong, just that the government charged with completing the task aren't competent to fulfill that task. .
    Yep. And prior to 2010, or 1997, or 1989, or... the people in power were supremely able.

    We know the kind of people who govern us. And we should vote accordingly.
    I think it's healthy to have a bit of distrust in our politicians, but the last 10 years or so has really done them no favours.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    The Guardian makes the point (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/immigration-law-key-clause-protecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014) that 'all longstanding Commonwealth residents were protected from enforced removal by a specific exemption in the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act – a clause removed in the updated 2014 legislation.”

    Allegedly the relevant Bill went through with little or no debate. The relevant ministers were, of course T May and, as Minister for Immigration, J. Brokenshire
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 11,503
    HYUFD said:

    Has her Salisbury boost fizzled out? Survation at the weekend had the Tories slashing the Labour lead to 0 and the 2 parties tied and Survation is supposedly the 'gold standard' pollster.

    Strange that didn't get much publicity around here... ;)
  • The Guardian makes the point (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/immigration-law-key-clause-protecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014) that 'all longstanding Commonwealth residents were protected from enforced removal by a specific exemption in the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act – a clause removed in the updated 2014 legislation.”

    Allegedly the relevant Bill went through with little or no debate. The relevant ministers were, of course T May and, as Minister for Immigration, J. Brokenshire

    Can't a one sentence amendment rectify this reinstating the exemption?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Topping, do you mean Solon? He was the Athenian lawgiver (their equivalent of Lycurgus). Or, if you're referring to the book, that was written by Plato (Socrates' student).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    edited April 17

    I also fear that Michael Crick is right.

    Long before Brexit the Home Office couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.

    The Home Office has never been fit for purpose, hence the old joke about it being a ministerial graveyard. Splitting Justice off should have helped the workload a little, but it’s still a massive and cumbersome department.

    Given the complexities in dealing with immigration now and in the near future, it might be sensible to actually spin off that section with a Cabinet level minister too, maybe to replace the DExEU department when that winds down?

    It’s worth remembering that, after Jack Straw, Labour got through five Home Secretaries in nine years between 2001 and 2010.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 1,782
    Sandpit said:


    It’s worth remembering that, after Jack Straw, Labour got through five Home Secretaries in nine years between 2001 and 2010.

    That feels like a lost golden age of good governance at the moment.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108

    The Guardian makes the point (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/immigration-law-key-clause-protecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014) that 'all longstanding Commonwealth residents were protected from enforced removal by a specific exemption in the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act – a clause removed in the updated 2014 legislation.”

    Allegedly the relevant Bill went through with little or no debate. The relevant ministers were, of course T May and, as Minister for Immigration, J. Brokenshire

    2014, you say? The Coalition years? So this Windrush problem could have been stopped by the LibDems....

    What bastards.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,117

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Nah, it's just numpty people in positions of power that they aren't fit to be in. I voted leave, and thought that government were supposed to be able to handle the big stuff. I was wrong.
    Given what I know now, would I change my vote? Probably, but not because I think leaving was wrong, just that the government charged with completing the task aren't competent to fulfill that task. .
    Ah the myth of Brexit betrayal grows. Never the fault of those who voted for it, always someone else's fault.
    Brexit voters appear to be those people psychologically disposed blame others. First it was the EU and foreigners, now's it's their own leaders and Remainers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    FPT:
    HYUFD said:


    As I said until we get to a majority renting, which outside London we are nowhere near, that will not be a major problem for the Tories. It is only once a majority rent that an entrenched Labour majority emerges as the Capital now has. Plus of course many will inherit to enable home ownership if their parents own even if their salary is not high enough to get a deposit and buy themselves and their parents do not have enough liquid assets to assist

    Sorry but is gaining your parents house when you're 60 odd yourself and heading for retirement really ideal. People need their own homes in their 30s generally when they're raising a family.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 10,212
    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Wasn’t the law in question before the Brexit referendum?
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,178

    The Guardian makes the point (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/immigration-law-key-clause-protecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014) that 'all longstanding Commonwealth residents were protected from enforced removal by a specific exemption in the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act – a clause removed in the updated 2014 legislation.”

    Allegedly the relevant Bill went through with little or no debate. The relevant ministers were, of course T May and, as Minister for Immigration, J. Brokenshire

    2014, you say? The Coalition years? So this Windrush problem could have been stopped by the LibDems....

    What bastards.
    Lol
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,224
    TOPPING said:

    Yep. And prior to 2010, or 1997, or 1989, or... the people in power were supremely able.

    We know the kind of people who govern us. And we should vote accordingly.

    How are we meant to do that when the choices for either of the two options are equally odious?
  • It's not good but it's pretty de rigeur to take a pop at governing parties, especially when you're authoring for pb.com. National sport.

    Maybe sometimes we should stop being so miserable and take a step back. TM's proving a bloody good PM.

    Post about the soaring pound anyone? No? Thought not.https://news.sky.com/story/pound-climbs-to-highest-level-since-brexit-vote-11334489
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077
    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..
  • JonathanD said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Nah, it's just numpty people in positions of power that they aren't fit to be in. I voted leave, and thought that government were supposed to be able to handle the big stuff. I was wrong.
    Given what I know now, would I change my vote? Probably, but not because I think leaving was wrong, just that the government charged with completing the task aren't competent to fulfill that task. .
    Ah the myth of Brexit betrayal grows. Never the fault of those who voted for it, always someone else's fault.
    Brexit voters appear to be those people psychologically disposed blame others. First it was the EU and foreigners, now's it's their own leaders and Remainers.
    Cling to that blanket. I hope it gets you through it.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416

    I also fear that Michael Crick is right.

    Long before Brexit the Home Office couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.

    Are any government departments competent ?
    Yup.
    Which ones ?

    Home, Treasury, Foreign and Defence aren't.

    Health possibly.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 4,224

    It's not good but it's pretty de rigeur to take a pop at governing parties, especially when you're authoring for pb.com. National sport.

    Maybe sometimes we should stop being so miserable and take a step back. TM's proving a bloody good PM.

    Post about the soaring pound anyone? No? Thought not.https://news.sky.com/story/pound-climbs-to-highest-level-since-brexit-vote-11334489

    You are Theresa May and I claim my €5.79
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940
    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin [email protected]

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip [email protected]
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip [email protected]
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip [email protected]
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,828

    I also fear that Michael Crick is right.

    Long before Brexit the Home Office couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.

    Are any government departments competent ?
    Yup.
    Which ones ?

    Home, Treasury, Foreign and Defence aren't.

    Health possibly.
    Certainly not transport.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416
    Pulpstar said:

    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..

    Indeed.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,117
    Cross over:

    "Latest estimates show that average weekly earnings for employees in Great Britain in real terms (that is, adjusted for price inflation) increased by 0.2% excluding bonuses, and by 0.1% including bonuses, compared with a year earlier."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/april2018
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 11,503
    Pound almost back to where it was before the Brexit vote and now the pay squeeze has officially ended

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

    Good news all round I say? :D
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,828
    Pulpstar said:

    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..

    I wonder if a number of these people have significant gaps in their NI records. Not that that excuses their treatment.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 11,795
    Sandpit said:


    The Home Office has never been fit for purpose, hence the old joke about it being a ministerial graveyard.

    Does that mean Tessy's a zombie?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416
    Unemployment falls but earnings growth remains at 2.8% last month and productivity seems to be declining again.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/april2018

    And does anyone know whay an interest rate rise is so widely predicted in May ? CPI and HPI are both nowhere neat their peaks during the last eight years, the economy and wages growth are only crawling along and sterling has significantly risen during the last year.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 21,890

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Nah, it's just numpty people in positions of power that they aren't fit to be in. I voted leave, and thought that government were supposed to be able to handle the big stuff. I was wrong.
    Given what I know now, would I change my vote? Probably, but not because I think leaving was wrong, just that the government charged with completing the task aren't competent to fulfill that task. .
    The government aren't very good, but when was that not so? There was no golden age when mistakes were never made.

    At the moment, I'm pretty content with Brexit.
  • I also fear that Michael Crick is right.

    Long before Brexit the Home Office couldn’t organise a pregnancy on a council estate.

    Are any government departments competent ?
    Yup.
    Which ones ?

    Home, Treasury, Foreign and Defence aren't.

    Health possibly.
    Greg Clark’s Business Department.

    In my day job I’ve had contact with BEIS, Treasury, Brexit, and International Trade.

    Only BEIS and their Secretary of State seem clued up, the Treasury are a bit scared, they know what happens with a WTO/Hard Brexit, but at least aren’t in denial like Fox and Davis.

    It might be that he and his department look good compared to the other two.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 43,720
    Mr. Gin, not good news for exporters. Or for those who delight at the prospect of our doom following us for the sin of leaving the EU.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,584
    I am furious over Windrush and Rudd must be under threat as she is the one holding the ball. Seems lot of effort being put in to right the wrongs but it should not have happened.

    However, the idea TM is under threat is just wishful thinking especially after yesterdays 7 hour marathon in the HOC. She is in as strong a position as she has been and is going nowhere.

    What happens for GE 2022 is another matter and I would expect a new leader is probable and likely to be female
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 7,596
    JonathanD said:

    Cross over:

    "Latest estimates show that average weekly earnings for employees in Great Britain in real terms (that is, adjusted for price inflation) increased by 0.2% excluding bonuses, and by 0.1% including bonuses, compared with a year earlier."

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/april2018

    So unemployment down, economic inactivity down (slightly), and employment up. Pay rising.

    Two thirds of new jobs full time.

    Cheers all round...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    Unemployment falls but earnings growth remains at 2.8% last month and productivity seems to be declining again.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/april2018

    And does anyone know why an interest rate rise is so widely predicted in May ? CPI and HPI are both nowhere neat their peaks during the last eight years, the economy and wages growth are only crawling along and sterling has significantly risen during the last year.

    I think a rate rise in May is priced in. Better to get a small one out the way now to be honest, even though I'd like them to be as low as possible.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676

    TOPPING said:

    Yep. And prior to 2010, or 1997, or 1989, or... the people in power were supremely able.

    We know the kind of people who govern us. And we should vote accordingly.

    How are we meant to do that when the choices for either of the two options are equally odious?
    You know what they say about democracy...
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416
    GIN1138 said:

    Pound almost back to where it was before the Brexit vote and now the pay squeeze has officially ended

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

    Good news all round I say? :D

    Rising sterling is bad for Britain.

    A country which has had 241 consecutive months of trade deficit does not benefit from making its exports more expensive and its imported consumer tat cheaper.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,077

    GIN1138 said:

    Pound almost back to where it was before the Brexit vote and now the pay squeeze has officially ended

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

    Good news all round I say? :D

    Rising sterling is bad for Britain.

    A country which has had 241 consecutive months of trade deficit does not benefit from making its exports more expensive and its imported consumer tat cheaper.
    The pound at 1.4 to the € was very painful.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Wasn’t the law in question before the Brexit referendum?
    Yep. But Brexit did nothing to make the government think it had got it wrong.

    Again, a great article by Free Movement posted yesterday (apols can’t remember who by) on it all.
  • tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..

    I wonder if a number of these people have significant gaps in their NI records. Not that that excuses their treatment.
    The gaps may not even be their fault.
    Approx 6 years ago when an employer of mine went bust.
    I discovered a 2 year gap in my NI contributions due to the fact that my employer had not paid the contributions.
    Fortunately I had pay slips and P60's showing that deductions had been made and got my contributions credited.
    If it hadn't have been that I was trying to sign on, I would never have known about it.
    If I had had NI gaps from an employer of 15-20 years ago, I would have been stuffed.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 11,503

    GIN1138 said:

    Pound almost back to where it was before the Brexit vote and now the pay squeeze has officially ended

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

    Good news all round I say? :D

    Rising sterling is bad for Britain.


    We've been told repeatedly that the fall in sterling since 23rd June 2016 is bad? Now it's rising that's bad too?

    In the end I suspect its a case of swings and roundabouts - You'll always have winner and losers whether the pound is up or down...
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 2,904

    The Guardian makes the point (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/immigration-law-key-clause-protecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014) that 'all longstanding Commonwealth residents were protected from enforced removal by a specific exemption in the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act – a clause removed in the updated 2014 legislation.”

    Allegedly the relevant Bill went through with little or no debate. The relevant ministers were, of course T May and, as Minister for Immigration, J. Brokenshire

    2014, you say? The Coalition years? So this Windrush problem could have been stopped by the LibDems....

    What bastards.
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  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 2,904
    Uncle Vince And Syria

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..

    I wonder if a number of these people have significant gaps in their NI records. Not that that excuses their treatment.
    I have a feeling there’s a lot more to these stories than we currently know. The HS pledged yesterday to take a look and I’m sure she’ll return to the Commons shortly with a report.

    The Guardian have a poor record of their reporting of these stories, and there don’t seem to be any other independent sources at the moment.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 13,676

    GIN1138 said:

    Pound almost back to where it was before the Brexit vote and now the pay squeeze has officially ended

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

    Good news all round I say? :D

    Rising sterling is bad for Britain.

    A country which has had 241 consecutive months of trade deficit does not benefit from making its exports more expensive and its imported consumer tat cheaper.
    That pesky electorate again buying cheap tat instead of something more reassuringly expensive.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364

    The Guardian makes the point (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/immigration-law-key-clause-protecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014) that 'all longstanding Commonwealth residents were protected from enforced removal by a specific exemption in the 1999 Immigration and Asylum Act – a clause removed in the updated 2014 legislation.”

    Allegedly the relevant Bill went through with little or no debate. The relevant ministers were, of course T May and, as Minister for Immigration, J. Brokenshire

    2014, you say? The Coalition years? So this Windrush problem could have been stopped by the LibDems....

    What bastards.
    Was Norman Baker at the HO in those days? And anything to do with immigration. If so, another nail in the coffin of my long-term LibDemmery.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,422

    I am furious over Windrush and Rudd must be under threat as she is the one holding the ball. Seems lot of effort being put in to right the wrongs but it should not have happened.

    However, the idea TM is under threat is just wishful thinking especially after yesterdays 7 hour marathon in the HOC. She is in as strong a position as she has been and is going nowhere.

    What happens for GE 2022 is another matter and I would expect a new leader is probable and likely to be female

    T Crouch?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pound almost back to where it was before the Brexit vote and now the pay squeeze has officially ended

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

    Good news all round I say? :D

    Rising sterling is bad for Britain.


    We've been told repeatedly that the fall in sterling since 23rd June 2016 is bad? Now it's rising that's bad too?

    In the end I suspect its a case of swings and roundabouts - You'll always have winner and losers whether the pound is up or down...
    The fall in sterling was good as it helped to somewhat rebalance the economy.

    And yes you have winners and losers to every economic change.

    Britain's problem is that we have far, far more people who benefit from cheaper imported consumer tat and cheaper foreign holidays than those who benefit from cheaper exports.

    All funded by the magic money trees and flogging off the UK's assets.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 2,904
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin [email protected]

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip [email protected]
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip [email protected]
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip [email protected]
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


    I wonder if Ken Macintosh will last the term of the parliament as presiding officer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    edited April 17
    Pulpstar said:

    Unemployment falls but earnings growth remains at 2.8% last month and productivity seems to be declining again.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/bulletins/uklabourmarket/april2018

    And does anyone know why an interest rate rise is so widely predicted in May ? CPI and HPI are both nowhere neat their peaks during the last eight years, the economy and wages growth are only crawling along and sterling has significantly risen during the last year.

    I think a rate rise in May is priced in. Better to get a small one out the way now to be honest, even though I'd like them to be as low as possible.
    Interest rates being on the floor are the cause of a lot of the economic problems, and also leave no room to move when the next recession happens. Getting them up in the 2-3% range should really be a priority, given we now have pretty much full employment and rising wages.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416
    TOPPING said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Pound almost back to where it was before the Brexit vote and now the pay squeeze has officially ended

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43794707

    Good news all round I say? :D

    Rising sterling is bad for Britain.

    A country which has had 241 consecutive months of trade deficit does not benefit from making its exports more expensive and its imported consumer tat cheaper.
    That pesky electorate again buying cheap tat instead of something more reassuringly expensive.
    241 consecutive months of trade deficit and a cumulative current account deficit of half a trillion during the last five years.

    Do you think this can go on for ever ?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 3,940

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin [email protected]

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip [email protected]
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip [email protected]
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip [email protected]
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


    I wonder if Ken Macintosh will last the term of the parliament as presiding officer.
    I think that Sturgeon is far less likely to last this Parliamentary term.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,416

    Uncle Vince And Syria

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    LibDems not being as moral as they purport to be ?

    I'm shocked :wink:
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 2,904
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 2,904
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin [email protected]

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip [email protected]
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip [email protected]
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip [email protected]
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


    I wonder if Ken Macintosh will last the term of the parliament as presiding officer.
    I think that Sturgeon is far less likely to last this Parliamentary term.
    Why? Own volition or pushed out?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148
    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 8,828

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..

    I wonder if a number of these people have significant gaps in their NI records. Not that that excuses their treatment.
    The gaps may not even be their fault.
    Approx 6 years ago when an employer of mine went bust.
    I discovered a 2 year gap in my NI contributions due to the fact that my employer had not paid the contributions.
    Fortunately I had pay slips and P60's showing that deductions had been made and got my contributions credited.
    If it hadn't have been that I was trying to sign on, I would never have known about it.
    If I had had NI gaps from an employer of 15-20 years ago, I would have been stuffed.

    A criminal offence surely? Did anyone get prosecuted for not paying your NI?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 10,212
    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Wasn’t the law in question before the Brexit referendum?
    Yep. But Brexit did nothing to make the government think it had got it wrong.

    Again, a great article by Free Movement posted yesterday (apols can’t remember who by) on it all.
    Is it the law that is wrong? There is nothing inherently wrong with taking steps to ensure that illegal immigration is made harder and that those who facilitate it are punished.

    What has been wrong is not taking steps - legislative and administrative - to regularise the position of those who were already here lawfully.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,015
    edited April 17
    Another day under-cover down at Brandon's Tory troll farm.I have to make 25 "fuck off Steptoe" comments and I get 3p and a sticker.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 11,364
    This medicine has been around for some time and this is the first case. It does however reduce libido, although reduction in ‘conventional’ libido doesn’t (AFAIK) mean a change in orientation.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,151

    I am furious over Windrush and Rudd must be under threat as she is the one holding the ball. Seems lot of effort being put in to right the wrongs but it should not have happened.

    However, the idea TM is under threat is just wishful thinking especially after yesterdays 7 hour marathon in the HOC. She is in as strong a position as she has been and is going nowhere.

    What happens for GE 2022 is another matter and I would expect a new leader is probable and likely to be female

    TM is obviously the one responsible for the Windrush shambles from her time as Home Secretary. But as she seems to be on the spectrum, lacking human empathy, it is unfair to blame her for her condition.

    I think a politician with autism would be OK as Secretary for Defence or even as COE but not as PM. I agree a new leader is probable. And it won't be Moggsy (though I sincerely hope it is!)
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Wasn’t the law in question before the Brexit referendum?
    Yep. But Brexit did nothing to make the government think it had got it wrong.

    Again, a great article by Free Movement posted yesterday (apols can’t remember who by) on it all.
    Is it the law that is wrong? There is nothing inherently wrong with taking steps to ensure that illegal immigration is made harder and that those who facilitate it are punished.

    What has been wrong is not taking steps - legislative and administrative - to regularise the position of those who were already here lawfully.
    There must come a point - and I would suggest that point is long past after 45 years - where whether someone has been here lawfully at all times, it is inhuman to expect them now to leave the country, them having made their life here.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 18,108

    Another day under-cover down at Brandon's Tory troll farm.I have to make 25 "fuck off Steptoe" comments and I get 3p and a sticker.

    And even the sticker says "Vote Corbyn, get Putin"......
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 10,212

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,148
    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    It's a climate, one that the referendum campaign has powerfully reinforced.
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..

    I wonder if a number of these people have significant gaps in their NI records. Not that that excuses their treatment.
    The gaps may not even be their fault.
    Approx 6 years ago when an employer of mine went bust.
    I discovered a 2 year gap in my NI contributions due to the fact that my employer had not paid the contributions.
    Fortunately I had pay slips and P60's showing that deductions had been made and got my contributions credited.
    If it hadn't have been that I was trying to sign on, I would never have known about it.
    If I had had NI gaps from an employer of 15-20 years ago, I would have been stuffed.

    A criminal offence surely? Did anyone get prosecuted for not paying your NI?
    Not that I know of.
    The PB brains trust was much help when I feared being lumbered with a bill for a few £k that I didn't have.
  • Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Wasn’t the law in question before the Brexit referendum?
    Yep. But Brexit did nothing to make the government think it had got it wrong.

    Again, a great article by Free Movement posted yesterday (apols can’t remember who by) on it all.
    Is it the law that is wrong? There is nothing inherently wrong with taking steps to ensure that illegal immigration is made harder and that those who facilitate it are punished.

    What has been wrong is not taking steps - legislative and administrative - to regularise the position of those who were already here lawfully.
    There must come a point - and I would suggest that point is long past after 45 years - where whether someone has been here lawfully at all times, it is inhuman to expect them now to leave the country, them having made their life here.
    I agree, as long as they don't have a serious criminal record.
    It's the HO's obsession with headline figures that drives this policy madness in going after soft targets and not the more difficult ones.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 14,584

    I am furious over Windrush and Rudd must be under threat as she is the one holding the ball. Seems lot of effort being put in to right the wrongs but it should not have happened.

    However, the idea TM is under threat is just wishful thinking especially after yesterdays 7 hour marathon in the HOC. She is in as strong a position as she has been and is going nowhere.

    What happens for GE 2022 is another matter and I would expect a new leader is probable and likely to be female

    T Crouch?
    I believe there could be several female candidates standing when the time comes
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 18,594
    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin [email protected]

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip [email protected]
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip [email protected]
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip [email protected]
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


    I wonder if Ken Macintosh will last the term of the parliament as presiding officer.
    I think that Sturgeon is far less likely to last this Parliamentary term.
    She about to get severely shot down in flames by the Supreme Court, for her bill that’s quite clearly unconstitutional.

    From my friends in Scotland, the impression I get is that the day to day running of the place is being seriously neglected, by a government who are only interested in constitutional games rather than health, education and policing.
This discussion has been closed.