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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The commentators blaming TMay for the Windrush affair are righ

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  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    Uncle Vince And Syria

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic

    LibDems not being as moral as they purport to be ?

    I'm shocked :wink:
    Isn't the correct title:

    Great Uncle Vince?

    Somehow that fits his image so much better than the insubstantial Uncle Vince
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    There is no scandal.

    The Tories were elected to bring down immigration and the Brexit vote reminded them that the country was serious about it.

    If anyone thought there wouldn’t be intended and unintended consequences as a result they hadn’t been paying attention.

    Wasn’t the law in question before the Brexit referendum?
    Yep. But Brexit did nothing to make the government think it had got it wrong.

    Again, a great article by Free Movement posted yesterday (apols can’t remember who by) on it all.
    Is it the law that is wrong? There is nothing inherently wrong with taking steps to ensure that illegal immigration is made harder and that those who facilitate it are punished.

    What has been wrong is not taking steps - legislative and administrative - to regularise the position of those who were already here lawfully.
    There must come a point - and I would suggest that point is long past after 45 years - where whether someone has been here lawfully at all times, it is inhuman to expect them now to leave the country, them having made their life here.
    But the point is that these people were here lawfully so there should never have been an issue about whether or not they could remain. If it is true that there was little discussion of this law as it passed through Parliament, then that us a real failure of Parliamentary scrutiny.

    On your general point, I broadly agree - subject to caveats. For instance, terrorists or those who have committed very serious crimes should not be permitted to benefit from the law’s delays (someone like Abu Qatada, say).
  • The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    This conservative does and has been vocal about it
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    It's a climate, one that the referendum campaign has powerfully reinforced.
    Reinforced, yes. But not one that it started. Brexit happened in part because of the pre-existing climate, itself a reaction to peoples’ concerns. The referendum was not Year Zero in this respect.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Sandpit said:

    a government who are only interested in constitutional games rather than health, education and policing.

    Which is completely different from the Westminster government's flat footed pursuit of the Brexit Snark.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Liberal Democrats proclaim their belief in free movement from the EU, but are the biggest NIMBYs when they are campaigning in local elections. Bring 'em in, but do not house them anywhere near me seems to be their mantra.
  • Adam Boulton is struggling because he is having to report wages are rising above inflation for the first time in years. Why is it not good news to him - nothing to do with it not fitting his narrative then
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    Will the people affected who happen to be seriously ill get the urgent NHS treatment the need and a profuse apology? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Will those who have already been deported be brought back, ideally in first or business class? I'd say they also deserve at least £50-100k. The govt.'s behaviour would have amounted to unlawful detention if not abduction.

    Abduction is what the Russians were accusing us of doing to one of their citizens. FFS.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697

    Adam Boulton is struggling because he is having to report wages are rising above inflation for the first time in years. Why is it not good news to him - nothing to do with it not fitting his narrative then

    ;)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    edited April 2018
    Sandpit said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin Carrell@severincarrell

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


    I wonder if Ken Macintosh will last the term of the parliament as presiding officer.
    I think that Sturgeon is far less likely to last this Parliamentary term.
    She about to get severely shot down in flames by the Supreme Court, for her bill that’s quite clearly unconstitutional.

    From my friends in Scotland, the impression I get is that the day to day running of the place is being seriously neglected, by a government who are only interested in constitutional games rather than health, education and policing.
    Were your friends able to give you the comparable figures for A&E waiting times in Scotland and England, or, say, the murder clear up rates and violent crime reduction stats? Always good to see the solid evidence that informs 'impressions'.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Adam Boulton is struggling because he is having to report wages are rising above inflation for the first time in years. Why is it not good news to him - nothing to do with it not fitting his narrative then

    I don't like Adam Boulton.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    Will the people affected who happen to be seriously ill get the urgent NHS treatment the need and a profuse apology? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Will those who have already been deported be brought back, ideally in first or business class? I'd say they also deserve at least £50-100k. The govt.'s behaviour would have amounted to unlawful detention if not abduction.

    Abduction is what the Russians were accusing us of doing to one of their citizens. FFS.
    There should certainly be generous compensation for anyone who has suffered as a result.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    Labour "moderates", such as Yvette Cooper and Chris Leslie, refused to oppose Theresa May's Immigration Bill which led to the #WindrushGeneration scandal.

    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were among just 7 Labour MPs who rebelled and voted against it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    To be fair to Vince Cable (why?) dual-use rules can be utterly messy, at least in my limited experience. It'd be interesting to know more about what the chemicals were and what the claimed usage was.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    Will the people affected who happen to be seriously ill get the urgent NHS treatment the need and a profuse apology? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Will those who have already been deported be brought back, ideally in first or business class? I'd say they also deserve at least £50-100k. The govt.'s behaviour would have amounted to unlawful detention if not abduction.

    Abduction is what the Russians were accusing us of doing to one of their citizens. FFS.
    There should certainly be generous compensation for anyone who has suffered as a result.
    Without question
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Labour "moderates", such as Yvette Cooper and Chris Leslie, refused to oppose Theresa May's Immigration Bill which led to the #WindrushGeneration scandal.

    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were among just 7 Labour MPs who rebelled and voted against it.

    The more salient point is whether anyone raised the issue of those who were here lawfully who might be affected. It is not necessary to take no steps against illegal immigration to do right by those who are here lawfully.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited April 2018
    This law change did come in during the coalition - the question is whether there was proper consultation. TMay had a terrible reputation during that period for not consulting.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    Will the people affected who happen to be seriously ill get the urgent NHS treatment the need and a profuse apology? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Will those who have already been deported be brought back, ideally in first or business class? I'd say they also deserve at least £50-100k. The govt.'s behaviour would have amounted to unlawful detention if not abduction.

    Abduction is what the Russians were accusing us of doing to one of their citizens. FFS.
    The government claim as of 10 a.m. was that *nobody* has actually been deported as a result of this cock-up (which is not to say they haven't been threatened, refused medical treatment, lost pensions etc.)

    Except that they said nobody has been "sent abroad," which is new to me and presumably meant to sound cuddlier than deporting people.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    This conservative does and has been vocal about it
    Ditto.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959

    The Liberal Democrats proclaim their belief in free movement from the EU, but are the biggest NIMBYs when they are campaigning in local elections. Bring 'em in, but do not house them anywhere near me seems to be their mantra.

    It was how they campaigned in the General Election down here in the SW. Green-belt nimbyism, going for the Kipper vote. For some reason, Brexit was not such a big font on their literature....
  • May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    Rudd is in Office and must be under threat.but the government isn't despite your wishful thinking
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279

    Sandpit said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin Carrell@severincarrell

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


    I wonder if Ken Macintosh will last the term of the parliament as presiding officer.
    I think that Sturgeon is far less likely to last this Parliamentary term.
    She about to get severely shot down in flames by the Supreme Court, for her bill that’s quite clearly unconstitutional.

    From my friends in Scotland, the impression I get is that the day to day running of the place is being seriously neglected, by a government who are only interested in constitutional games rather than health, education and policing.
    Were your friends able to give you the comparable figures for A&E waiting times in Scotland and England, or, say, the murder clear up rates and violent crime reduction stats? Always good to see the solid evidence that informs 'impressions'.
    A&E waiting times barely scratch the surface of the current crisis in the Scottish NHS under the stewardship of the SNP government at Holyrood, and it's a crisis entirely of their own making. Also worth noting that Nicola Sturgeon was Health Minister in Salmond's first term as FM.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    Will the people affected who happen to be seriously ill get the urgent NHS treatment the need and a profuse apology? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Will those who have already been deported be brought back, ideally in first or business class? I'd say they also deserve at least £50-100k. The govt.'s behaviour would have amounted to unlawful detention if not abduction.

    Abduction is what the Russians were accusing us of doing to one of their citizens. FFS.
    The government claim as of 10 a.m. was that *nobody* has actually been deported as a result of this cock-up (which is not to say they haven't been threatened, refused medical treatment, lost pensions etc.)

    Except that they said nobody has been "sent abroad," which is new to me and presumably meant to sound cuddlier than deporting people.
    No-one has actually been deported owing to Labour anti-semitism either, which is what Guido chooses to lead on this morning. Thank heaven there is no racial slant to targeting Windrush. It is to the credit of pb Tories they have been quick to call foul on this, as pb socialists called out Corbyn.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,232
    'My sense is that Mrs. May is pushing her luck at the moment: agreeing to the Syria attacks without recalling parliament, her handling of immigration while Home Secretary and of course the divides within her party over Brexit. Her Salisbury boost in the polls has fizzled out.'

    I agree that we appear to be seeing a return to the Bad Old Theresa on show before the election fiasco - lofty, blinkered and convinced of her own righteousness. But she should be fine: the Tories won't want to rock the boat with a new leader lest he or she implodes spectacularly and lets Jezza in. Best to stick with the known option and hope that Jezza will have lost much of his campaigning alchemy next time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    fitalass said:

    Sandpit said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    fitalass said:

    Twitter

    Severin Carrell@severincarrell

    BREAKING: @GOVUK applies to @UKSupremeCourt to challenge Scottish and Welsh #Brexit bills

    Twitter

    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    UK government confirms the Scottish and Welsh Brexit bills are being referred to the Supreme Court. Attorney General Jeremy Wright says legislation "risks creating serious legal uncertainty for individuals and businesses as we leave the EU"


    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    UKgov seeking ruling in Supreme Court as to whether devolved Brexit bills are "constitutional and properly within devolved legislative powers"


    Philip Sim@BBCPhilipSim
    Holyrood PO Ken Macintosh has argued Scottish Brexit bill isn't within @ScotParl's competence because it makes provision for exercise of powers parliament doesn't yet hold. However Lord Advocate James Wolffe contends that it is "carefully framed" not to cut across EU law


    I wonder if Ken Macintosh will last the term of the parliament as presiding officer.
    I think that Sturgeon is far less likely to last this Parliamentary term.
    She about to get severely shot down in flames by the Supreme Court, for her bill that’s quite clearly unconstitutional.

    From my friends in Scotland, the impression I get is that the day to day running of the place is being seriously neglected, by a government who are only interested in constitutional games rather than health, education and policing.
    Were your friends able to give you the comparable figures for A&E waiting times in Scotland and England, or, say, the murder clear up rates and violent crime reduction stats? Always good to see the solid evidence that informs 'impressions'.
    A&E waiting times barely scratch the surface of the current crisis in the Scottish NHS under the stewardship of the SNP government at Holyrood, and it's a crisis entirely of their own making. Also worth noting that Nicola Sturgeon was Health Minister in Salmond's first term as FM.
    Oh good, a Tory suggesting that politicians should bear retrospective responsibility for ministerial departments which they previously ran.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,718
    Presumably ‘Albert Thompson’ (it’s a pseudonym), the guy who was refused prostate cancer treatment without forking out £54k up front will very shortly get a letter from Amber Rudd and rock up for treatment.
    If so, what’s going to happen to the £30k already collected? Prostate Cancer Research would be my chose, as a donor and sufferer.
  • Presumably ‘Albert Thompson’ (it’s a pseudonym), the guy who was refused prostate cancer treatment without forking out £54k up front will very shortly get a letter from Amber Rudd and rock up for treatment.
    If so, what’s going to happen to the £30k already collected? Prostate Cancer Research would be my chose, as a donor and sufferer.

    Excellent suggestion
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Labour "moderates", such as Yvette Cooper and Chris Leslie, refused to oppose Theresa May's Immigration Bill which led to the #WindrushGeneration scandal.

    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were among just 7 Labour MPs who rebelled and voted against it.

    Do you have a link for that please?
  • Lecturer on Media and Communication at University of Winchester...

    https://twitter.com/SChrles/status/986181147968393216
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    The Windrush affair is not a bureaucratic bungle. It is a thought-through policy being rigidly enforced by officials acting in accordance with instructions both on policy and implementation given from ministerial level.

    It is part of the new normal, the post-referendum world we live in where pandering to xenophobia is something that wins elections. Many of those that claim to deplore the consequences have played a major part in creating that world.

    Of course heads should roll over this. And of course heads won't roll because when it comes down to it Conservatives simply don't care enough about it.

    Was it not a law introduced by the coalition government? So part of the context which led to Brexit rather than just a consequence of it?
    Will the people affected who happen to be seriously ill get the urgent NHS treatment the need and a profuse apology? https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/10/denied-free-nhs-cancer-care-left-die-home-office-commonwealth?CMP=share_btn_tw

    Will those who have already been deported be brought back, ideally in first or business class? I'd say they also deserve at least £50-100k. The govt.'s behaviour would have amounted to unlawful detention if not abduction.

    Abduction is what the Russians were accusing us of doing to one of their citizens. FFS.
    The government claim as of 10 a.m. was that *nobody* has actually been deported as a result of this cock-up (which is not to say they haven't been threatened, refused medical treatment, lost pensions etc.)

    Except that they said nobody has been "sent abroad," which is new to me and presumably meant to sound cuddlier than deporting people.
    The weasel words may hide the fact that they've been removed from their home, detained against their will but not yet bundled onto a plane against their will. It's still a serious offence to treat people like that.
  • The thing about Chris Williamsov is we know he's the Icarus of the rabid left...it's just a matter of time before his wing-nuts fall off entirely but in the meantime, what a ride.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/986179720797741056
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Pulpstar said:

    NI records are all electronically stored for everyone in the country so far as I can work out. It seems to be a major IT database that actually works!, I accessed it the other day so the Gov't should be able to work out themselves if someone has been here x number of years before going to the expense of sticking them on a flight to Jamaica or w/e..

    Precisely, a 30-second check should be able to resolve for this for many people.

    It won't cover all cases (women who stayed at home bringing up families may not be covered, others will have gaps for other reasons), but it would greatly reduce the number of cases where more checks are needed if the government simply accepted the NI record as by definition conclusive evidence.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited April 2018

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979

    To be fair to Vince Cable (why?) dual-use rules can be utterly messy, at least in my limited experience. It'd be interesting to know more about what the chemicals were and what the claimed usage was.

    Sodium chloride is the precursor to chlorine which seems to have been the toxic chemical used in this case. Sodium chloride has dual uses.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Labour "moderates", such as Yvette Cooper and Chris Leslie, refused to oppose Theresa May's Immigration Bill which led to the #WindrushGeneration scandal.

    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were among just 7 Labour MPs who rebelled and voted against it.

    Do you have a link for that please?
    maybe bottom of this webpage.

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm140130/debtext/140130-0004.htm#14013062003170
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    .
    Barnesian said:

    To be fair to Vince Cable (why?) dual-use rules can be utterly messy, at least in my limited experience. It'd be interesting to know more about what the chemicals were and what the claimed usage was.

    Sodium chloride is the precursor to chlorine which seems to have been the toxic chemical used in this case. Sodium chloride has dual uses.
    Probably in combination with some of that nasty dihydrogen monoxide.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765
    Cyclefree said:

    Labour "moderates", such as Yvette Cooper and Chris Leslie, refused to oppose Theresa May's Immigration Bill which led to the #WindrushGeneration scandal.

    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were among just 7 Labour MPs who rebelled and voted against it.

    The more salient point is whether anyone raised the issue of those who were here lawfully who might be affected. It is not necessary to take no steps against illegal immigration to do right by those who are here lawfully.

    I would have thought it was possible to crack down on people who are here illegally, without having to throw out people who have lived here lawfully, for decades. It really doesn't follow that if you support the former, the latter logically follows.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    Esther's idea of being nice would be put an ill dog out its misery by battering it to death with a baseball bat.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Labour "moderates", such as Yvette Cooper and Chris Leslie, refused to oppose Theresa May's Immigration Bill which led to the #WindrushGeneration scandal.

    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were among just 7 Labour MPs who rebelled and voted against it.

    Is this it at the bottom of the page?

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm140130/debtext/140130-0004.htm#14013062003170
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    Yeah well they ended up forming governments and that's the system we're stuck with.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    The Liberal Democrats proclaim their belief in free movement from the EU, but are the biggest NIMBYs when they are campaigning in local elections. Bring 'em in, but do not house them anywhere near me seems to be their mantra.

    It was how they campaigned in the General Election down here in the SW. Green-belt nimbyism, going for the Kipper vote. For some reason, Brexit was not such a big font on their literature....
    To coin a phrase, they are the nasty party.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,765

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    While that is so, the Coalition had a clear majority of both seats and votes, and the Coalition chose to implement legislation to make life tougher for illegal immigrants (for the avoidance of doubt, I think the Coalition was right to do so).
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    edited April 2018
    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    The thing about Chris Williamsov is we know he's the Icarus of the rabid left...it's just a matter of time before his wing-nuts fall off entirely but in the meantime, what a ride.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/986179720797741056

    Poor Danny boy. He has not recovered from David Miliband losing the Labour leadership election.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Labour "moderates", such as Yvette Cooper and Chris Leslie, refused to oppose Theresa May's Immigration Bill which led to the #WindrushGeneration scandal.

    Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott were among just 7 Labour MPs who rebelled and voted against it.

    The more salient point is whether anyone raised the issue of those who were here lawfully who might be affected. It is not necessary to take no steps against illegal immigration to do right by those who are here lawfully.

    I would have thought it was possible to crack down on people who are here illegally, without having to throw out people who have lived here lawfully, for decades. It really doesn't follow that if you support the former, the latter logically follows.
    The problem is that when you are dealing with ongoing cuts, staff turnover, agency staff, no continuity...set against constant policy changes.....even the best of us would struggle to manage a piss up in a brewery never mind something as complex as immigration....
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The Scottish homicide rate has fallen 47% since 2007.

    https://beta.gov.scot/publications/homicide-scotland-2016-17-9781788512367/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Tyson, I did once have someone who (genuinely, not unkindly) suggested I might be on the autism spectrum. Whilst I do have one or two of the quirks, my capacity to lie and also to be tremendously witty and modest suggest it's unlikely.

    However, those on the spectrum do get better treatment generally here than elsewhere, due to the legacy of a fondness for eccentrics.

    There's also a serious risk of over-diagnosing generally, as well as over-pathologising so every damned personal quirk becomes medicalised, a condition of some variety.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    I'd disagree. In 2010 the Lib Dems and Tories formed the Gov't, together they had a mandate. In 2017 the parties forming the Gov't (And a majority of seats) are the DUP + Tories.

    If Corbyn wins via Labour + Uncle Tom Cobley in 2022 he will have a mandate.

    Confidence of the commons is the crucial test, not gaining a majority.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited April 2018
    tyson said:

    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......

    It also strengthens Boris: after this foul-up with TMay's fingerprints all over it, she can hardly use his ill-chosen comments about Obama against him, which was possible after the Labour anti-semitism row.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    Rudd is in Office and must be under threat.but the government isn't despite your wishful thinking
    I'm not saying this should bring down the government - just a change of PM and Home Sec.

    Let BoJo or the Moggster take over.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    I'd disagree. In 2010 the Lib Dems and Tories formed the Gov't, together they had a mandate. In 2017 the parties forming the Gov't (And a majority of seats) are the DUP + Tories.

    If Corbyn wins via Labour + Uncle Tom Cobley in 2022 he will have a mandate.

    Confidence of the commons is the crucial test, not gaining a majority.
    Yes but there can be no mandate for what was fudged together in the coalition negotiations, as Nick Clegg acknowledged in 2010.
  • May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    Rudd is in Office and must be under threat.but the government isn't despite your wishful thinking
    I'm not saying this should bring down the government - just a change of PM and Home Sec.

    Let BoJo or the Moggster take over.
    Neither will win the leadership IMO
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Theresa May meeting with leaders of the Caribbean countries today. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    tyson said:

    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......

    As a mathematician and political obsessive, I'm definitely on the spectrum, and I think you are right about many PBers.

    I've just done a course on autism to understand it better.

    https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/autism

    Corbyn has his obsessions, as you say, but he displays empathy in his relationships.

    May has more features of autism which presents as behavioural difference in communication, social interactions and patterns of behaviour which include:

    literal interpretation of information (rather than contextual interpretation)
    an eye for details (rather than for the ‘big picture’)
    concrete things and facts (rather than abstract things and vague ideas)
    following the rules (rather than ‘living between the rules’)
    absolutes (rather than ‘relativism’)
    calculations (rather than intuitive feelings)

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    I'd disagree. In 2010 the Lib Dems and Tories formed the Gov't, together they had a mandate. In 2017 the parties forming the Gov't (And a majority of seats) are the DUP + Tories.

    If Corbyn wins via Labour + Uncle Tom Cobley in 2022 he will have a mandate.

    Confidence of the commons is the crucial test, not gaining a majority.
    Yes but there can be no mandate for what was fudged together in the coalition negotiations, as Nick Clegg acknowledged in 2010.
    I think it is incumbent upon the incumbent to try to action as much of the manifesto as possible. Nick Clegg thought so too but was over-ruled by the majority coalition party. Such again is a feature or bug of our system.

    And of course, poor thing, he has never been forgiven for getting into power under such circumstances, and with such constraints, since.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    When did any UK party last win over 50% of the votes at a general election - what, itcould be argued, is necessary to claim a mandate?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Adam Boulton is struggling because he is having to report wages are rising above inflation for the first time in years. Why is it not good news to him - nothing to do with it not fitting his narrative then


    Apparently it is only a year since wages were last rising above inflation.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    On topic - I'd imagine Mr Brady hasn't had as few letters in his drawer since last summer.

    May is safe as long as losses in the council elections are sub 200.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    Pulpstar said:

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    I'd disagree. In 2010 the Lib Dems and Tories formed the Gov't, together they had a mandate. In 2017 the parties forming the Gov't (And a majority of seats) are the DUP + Tories.

    If Corbyn wins via Labour + Uncle Tom Cobley in 2022 he will have a mandate.

    Confidence of the commons is the crucial test, not gaining a majority.
    They had a mandate to govern but no mandate to implement what happened to be in one of the party's manifesto, which is what we were talking about.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    Mr. Tyson, I did once have someone who (genuinely, not unkindly) suggested I might be on the autism spectrum. Whilst I do have one or two of the quirks, my capacity to lie and also to be tremendously witty and modest suggest it's unlikely.

    However, those on the spectrum do get better treatment generally here than elsewhere, due to the legacy of a fondness for eccentrics.

    There's also a serious risk of over-diagnosing generally, as well as over-pathologising so every damned personal quirk becomes medicalised, a condition of some variety.

    Many men are on the spectrum somewhere...some of my very close friends who are witty, humorous, warm etc.... are very, very spectrumy, some have an insight and some don't. Without a bit of asbergers in our genes nothing would have been invented...we'd all be living in the wild beating each other over heads with clubs.


    It's not just your interest in F1...the sci fi and fantasy side is a bit of a giveaway. Nicky P likes sci fi and role playing games....do we need to say more, and he is a lovely fella.

    Spectrumy and pompous are bad combinations...that is often because spectrumy people are very intelligent and cannot deal with fools easily....
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    The Liberal Democrats proclaim their belief in free movement from the EU, but are the biggest NIMBYs when they are campaigning in local elections. Bring 'em in, but do not house them anywhere near me seems to be their mantra.

    +1
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,881
    Over in the US the Dems lead in the generic congressional ballot seems to be declining slightly. I've traded out of my position that Dems would retake the House for a reasonable profit.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Is the present Home Office , institutionally racist ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Theresa May meeting with leaders of the Caribbean countries today. Oh, to be a fly on the wall.

    Since Esther won't be there, at least the fly can be reasonably confident of not having its wings pulled off.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    Finally, someone in Western Europe has noticed the big problems in EU east zone:

    "The European Union risks being torn apart by a “civil war” between its liberal and authoritarian democracies, Emmanuel Macron, the president of France has warned."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/17/macron-warns-european-civil-war-growing-east-west-divide/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    tyson said:

    Mr. Tyson, I did once have someone who (genuinely, not unkindly) suggested I might be on the autism spectrum. Whilst I do have one or two of the quirks, my capacity to lie and also to be tremendously witty and modest suggest it's unlikely.

    However, those on the spectrum do get better treatment generally here than elsewhere, due to the legacy of a fondness for eccentrics.

    There's also a serious risk of over-diagnosing generally, as well as over-pathologising so every damned personal quirk becomes medicalised, a condition of some variety.

    Many men are on the spectrum somewhere...some of my very close friends who are witty, humorous, warm etc.... are very, very spectrumy, some have an insight and some don't. Without a bit of asbergers in our genes nothing would have been invented...we'd all be living in the wild beating each other over heads with clubs.


    It's not just your interest in F1...the sci fi and fantasy side is a bit of a giveaway. Nicky P likes sci fi and role playing games....do we need to say more, and he is a lovely fella.

    Spectrumy and pompous are bad combinations...that is often because spectrumy people are very intelligent and cannot deal with fools easily....
    What on earth are you talking about?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    In 2013, the coalition stopped legal aid for divorce, child contact, welfare benefits, employment, clinical negligence, domestic abuse and housing law (homelessness) except in very limited circumstances.

    The Liberal Democrats must have known about this if they had a passing accquanitance with a newspaper or the Today programme on Radio 4.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22936684
  • Adam Boulton is struggling because he is having to report wages are rising above inflation for the first time in years. Why is it not good news to him - nothing to do with it not fitting his narrative then


    Apparently it is only a year since wages were last rising above inflation.
    Since the the 6th April the NLW has risen by 4.4% and the personal tax allowance has risen to £11,850.

    This should feed into higher wage rates over inflation and a much better narrative for the government
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. Tyson, lots of psych conditions have stark gender splits (psychopaths are very much more likely to be male). Not sure how it stands for the autism spectrum.

    I think the sci-fi/fantasy aspect is irrelevant. If you look at the biggest film franchises in history (Harry Potter, Star Wars, and James Bond), two out of three are SFF. It's just very popular.

    And, as we know, all wise men like F1.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    tyson said:

    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......

    What was the unintended consequence here? Surely the law, the manifesto and not least the Prime Minister's slow reaction all suggest that deporting these people was indeed the intention and the only unintended bit was the political damage.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    Finally, someone in Western Europe has noticed the big problems in EU east zone:

    "The European Union risks being torn apart by a “civil war” between its liberal and authoritarian democracies, Emmanuel Macron, the president of France has warned."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/17/macron-warns-european-civil-war-growing-east-west-divide/


    He's a very adept politician that Macron bloke...from managing Trump to now filling the vacuum in mainstream Europe that is being vacated by populism....

  • Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.

    The Windrush scandal is dreadful and it is being addressed but it should not have happened.

    Syria will be a positive for TM and an added benefit is Corbyn's exposure to the accusation that his foreign policy is subject to a Russian veto. That will cost him in an election
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    edited April 2018

    tyson said:

    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......

    What was the unintended consequence here? Surely the law, the manifesto and not least the Prime Minister's slow reaction all suggest that deporting these people was indeed the intention and the only unintended bit was the political damage.
    Naughty.

    The intention was to ensure that people who had no right to live here could not receive the benefits of citizenship. Fair enough.

    The unintended consequence was that proving the right to live here turned out to be problematic for a subset of people with a right to live here which, it seems, no one foresaw.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Wage growth by sector.

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    Mr. City, I think the UK's migration bureaucracy is more likely to be institutionally incompetent than racist. I remember reading here of terrible and obviously stupid mistakes made regarding Americans who had every right to work here yet, upon a quick holiday back home, returned to Blighty only to find their status under question.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Yesterdays debate on Syria was led, proposed and summed up by Labour MP Alison McGovern.

    She did an excellent job, was confident, and had cross party support - just let down by Labour MP abstentions at the vote.

    I suggest Alison McGovern as a future Labour leader once/if their Left Wing is tamed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018

    The thing about Chris Williamsov is we know he's the Icarus of the rabid left...it's just a matter of time before his wing-nuts fall off entirely but in the meantime, what a ride.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/986179720797741056

    I notice that Shami Chakrabarti has said that the recommendations made in her (not at all white-wash of) report in antisemitism still haven't been implemented.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,004
    edited April 2018

    Yesterdays debate on Syria was led, proposed and summed up by Labour MP Alison McGovern.

    She did an excellent job, was confident, and had cross party support - just let down by Labour MP abstentions at the vote.

    I suggest Alison McGovern as a future Labour leader once/if their Left Wing is tamed.

    She really impressed me
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.

    The Windrush scandal is dreadful and it is being addressed but it should not have happened.

    Syria will be a positive for TM and an added benefit is Corbyn's exposure to the accusation that his foreign policy is subject to a Russian veto. That will cost him in an election
    If Donald trump withdraws his support from action against Syria or Russia, she will be more exposed than a nude swimmer as the tide goes out.
  • Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.

    The Windrush scandal is dreadful and it is being addressed but it should not have happened.

    Syria will be a positive for TM and an added benefit is Corbyn's exposure to the accusation that his foreign policy is subject to a Russian veto. That will cost him in an election
    If Donald trump withdraws his support from action against Syria or Russia, she will be more exposed than a nude swimmer as the tide goes out.
    Methinks that is your political prejudice which of course you are entitled to
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Theresa May slashed police numbers and it bit her in the arse during the election campaign after the terror attack in Manchester. Now, her withdrawal of protection from deportation for the Windrush generation has come back to haunt her. I fear this war in Syria is not going to end well either.

    The Windrush scandal is dreadful and it is being addressed but it should not have happened.

    Syria will be a positive for TM and an added benefit is Corbyn's exposure to the accusation that his foreign policy is subject to a Russian veto. That will cost him in an election
    Corbyn outsourcing his foreign policy to the UN and thus subject to Russian veto.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    The Scottish homicide rate has fallen 47% since 2007.

    https://beta.gov.scot/publications/homicide-scotland-2016-17-9781788512367/

    As an aside, that site is hosted on Amazon. I doubt there is a single American government, state government or dog warden web site hosted by a Scottish provider. That's how America supports its own companies and turns them into world-beaters. Scotland and Britain, not so much.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    The thing about Chris Williamsov is we know he's the Icarus of the rabid left...it's just a matter of time before his wing-nuts fall off entirely but in the meantime, what a ride.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/986179720797741056

    I notice that Shami Chakrabarti has said that the recommendations made in her (not at all white-wash of) report in antisemitism still haven't been implemented.
    https://labourlist.org/2018/04/richard-angell-if-corbyn-wants-to-rid-labour-of-antisemitism-he-could-clean-up-twitter/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited April 2018

    TOPPING said:

    May and Rudd should both go, and go now.

    Just when people might be forgetting that the Tories are the Nasty Party, they kindly give us a stark reminder.

    Poor Esther, her efforts at being Nasty yesterday were completely overshadowed.

    The people voted in the Conservatives, who thereby received a mandate to reduce immigration as per their manifesto commitment. I am not particularly proud of the fact that, although I was one of those people, I didn't give serious enough thought to the consequences of such a policy.

    Now they are being criticised for bringing the policy in whereas it was the one they were elected on. (The other side of that coin is, of course, that they are criticised for not bringing down non-EU immigration.)
    Cameron at GE2010 and May at GE2017 both failed to win majorities and therefore had no mandate.
    When did any UK party last win over 50% of the votes at a general election - what, itcould be argued, is necessary to claim a mandate?
    Baldwin in 1931 got 55% and that was the last time a party got over 50%.

    Though Eden and Macmillan came close in 1955 and 1959 with 49%
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,933
    F1: still Red Bull at 17 on Betfair (15.5 on Ladbrokes Exchange) for the Constructors'. Whilst they are probably the outsider of the top three, that does look too long to me.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    tyson said:

    @Barnesian

    From before, TMay might be many things, but she's not autistic. Burnham would testify to that through the work with the Hillsborough associations. Corbyn is much more on the spectrum...his interest in drainpipe and train timetables, say no more....On that matter, 90% of the pbCOM commentariat are well up the spectrum...from those obsessively posting on all things F1 to the folk who get off on different Brexit options....And yes, those of you here who are aged 12 and over and obsess over any of...Dr Who, Star Wars, James Bond...yes you are all on the spectrum.

    Windrush is one of those policy fuckups that gets mashed by the law of unintended consequences.

    That said, it is a political gift to TMay's opponents......

    What was the unintended consequence here? Surely the law, the manifesto and not least the Prime Minister's slow reaction all suggest that deporting these people was indeed the intention and the only unintended bit was the political damage.
    Immigration is usually said to be a civil matter. Why can't being here at least six years without objection give you the right to remain indefinitely? In case of a challenge, provide the written evidence and let a judge decide. But as you imply, that sort of justice doesn't seem to be on offer.

    Meanwhile, the UK continues selling citizenship. If you have a spare £5-10M or so, you may still become a legal immigrant. Surely such a nasty party can only be at 40% in the polls by facing an inept opposition which doesn't draw attention to the nastiest policies.

    Or, given the deafening silence, maybe some of this was Labour policy before 2010 ... another PBer may know.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    The thing about Chris Williamsov is we know he's the Icarus of the rabid left...it's just a matter of time before his wing-nuts fall off entirely but in the meantime, what a ride.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/986179720797741056

    I notice that Shami Chakrabarti has said that the recommendations made in her (not at all white-wash of) report in antisemitism still haven't been implemented.
    We are getting very close to a point where 'methinks the lady doth protest too much' which would be a shame but its's starting to look bogus.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749

    Yesterdays debate on Syria was led, proposed and summed up by Labour MP Alison McGovern.

    She did an excellent job, was confident, and had cross party support - just let down by Labour MP abstentions at the vote.

    I suggest Alison McGovern as a future Labour leader once/if their Left Wing is tamed.

    Err, didn't she abstain herself, and criticise the SNP for voting for her motion? They're not called the Labstainers for nothing.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Theresa May has apologised to leaders of the Caribbean after the Windrush fiasco. LBC Radio
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018

    The Scottish homicide rate has fallen 47% since 2007.

    https://beta.gov.scot/publications/homicide-scotland-2016-17-9781788512367/

    As an aside, that site is hosted on Amazon. I doubt there is a single American government, state government or dog warden web site hosted by a Scottish provider. That's how America supports its own companies and turns them into world-beaters. Scotland and Britain, not so much.
    Are there any Scottish providers that have the sort of tech offered by the likes of AWS? To be perfectly honest, you have to have a really good reason not to use them these days when it comes to web services.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    @Topping


    I'm trying to say that there is an evolutionary reason for many of our mental health conditions. So for the autistic spectrum....you have high achieving, very intelligent brains who would be diagnosed with some kind of asbergers syndrome. People like Zuckerberg, Gates....certainly most of the high achievers in science, technology are asbergery.

    Once human beings collectivised, there was a role for psychopaths as they were drawn to leadership.

    Similarly, ADHD and creativity are linked together. Stephen Fry has learned to embrace his bi-polar disorder because of the creativity it inspires in him during his high moments.

    Morris Dancer took my post a little personally. As he rightly points out mental health conditions are labelled and stigmatised. This is of course wrong...... these very same mental health conditions are part of our genetic makeup and have been responsible for the development and evolution of the human race.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Mr Ethical
    ‏Verified account @nw_nicholas
    1h1 hour ago

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group is the second largest shareholder in Lockheed Martin, who's share rocketed after Syria attack

    https://twitter.com/nw_nicholas/status/986175356473348097

    Theresa May's husband's company, Capital Group, with $1.7tn AUM, is the second largest shareholder in thousands of companies. And the largest shareholder likely in thousands more, and the third largest shareholder in...

    What are you saying Lockheed Martin's ethical crime is?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    rkrkrk said:

    Over in the US the Dems lead in the generic congressional ballot seems to be declining slightly. I've traded out of my position that Dems would retake the House for a reasonable profit.

    The latest RCP poll average gives the Democrats a lead of 6.2%, the last time the Democrats took the House in 2006 they had a lead of 8% and won a majority of 21 seats though gerrymandering May be an issue

    https://realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2018_generic_congressional_vote-6185.html
  • Skripals poison in liquid form and it does not disappear and can be present in various sites in Salisbury
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