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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn accused of being a coward for leaving the chamber at th

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn accused of being a coward for leaving the chamber at the start of the antisemitism debate

I simply don't understand why Jeremy Corbyn has left the chamber for this debate on antisemitism. I had him down as all sorts of things. I never had him down as a coward.

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Comments

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    1
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,164
    Second
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Douglas!
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    I can't quite believe that he admitted there is a problem last week and then seems to also dismiss it at every opportunity. It strikes me he only said it because he thought that it was what people needed to hear. His actions seem to betray his true opinion
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    Dare I suggest that he simply needed to use the loo? A stressful debate; he's not a young man.

    Good evening, everyone.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,001
    edited April 2018
    AnneJGP said:

    Dare I suggest that he simply needed to use the loo? A stressful debate; he's not a young man.

    Good evening, everyone.

    Are you suggesting he was p....d off
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    AnneJGP said:

    Dare I suggest that he simply needed to use the loo? A stressful debate; he's not a young man.

    Good evening, everyone.

    Bon soir, madame. Yes, that's one of the sillier criticisms. It's extremely common for MPs to follow a debate standing behind the Speaker's chair - essentially if you need to stretch your legs (the benches are not particularly comfortable) it's one of the only two places you can stand while following the debate (the other one is by the entrance). You can see lots of MPs doing it at every PMQs when there are no seats left.
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Frank Field on Facebook
    After nearly 40 years of comradeship and nearly 30 sharing a bench I thought I knew everything about #JeremyCorbyn But even I underestimated his limitless courage and coolness under ferocious fire, not all of it from behind him either #ProudOfCorbyn

    Only kidding actually George Galloway
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    AnneJGP said:

    Dare I suggest that he simply needed to use the loo? A stressful debate; he's not a young man.

    Good evening, everyone.

    Bon soir, madame. Yes, that's one of the sillier criticisms. It's extremely common for MPs to follow a debate standing behind the Speaker's chair - essentially if you need to stretch your legs (the benches are not particularly comfortable) it's one of the only two places you can stand while following the debate (the other one is by the entrance). You can see lots of MPs doing it at every PMQs when there are no seats left.
    I don't care how many times he has to go to the loo. When is he going to do something about the state of your party and its harbouring of rabid anti-semites?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited April 2018
    I assumed he was putting the kettle on to make tea for the aggrieved and aggressors to drink while they calmly kissed and made up
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    As of this afternoon, my theory is that he just outright believes the full Marxist schtick. There's the struggle towards the Revolution, of which Syria/Salisbury/Russia are key ingredients, and there's everything else. Everything else simply doesn't matter, because it is just the sort of shit that arises out of the inherent contradictions of capitalism. Hence his lack of reaction to the Windrush stuff: it is just routine top-hatted capitalists oppressing workers, and we know that is what top-hatted capitalists do to workers: it isn't interesting.

    The other point is that he is very thick. He possibly thinks antisemitism is a necessary part of the dialectic progression: semitism, antisemitism, synsemitism.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    There are plenty of reasons to criticise Corbyn , but his opponents do seem to overdo it sometimes to their own detriment. Dilutes and undermines the serious parts of their critique .
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Frank Field on Facebook
    After nearly 40 years of comradeship and nearly 30 sharing a bench I thought I knew everything about #JeremyCorbyn But even I underestimated his limitless courage and coolness under ferocious fire, not all of it from behind him either #ProudOfCorbyn

    Only kidding actually George Galloway

    You had me
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    edited April 2018

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
  • The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    No 10 on BBC popular stories
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Windrush, I'd expect. I see a curious parallel between the two. They're both deeply implicated in shaming episodes - and both leaders should resign, but they won't. It's lamentable.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    More than being Putin's puppet?
  • The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Windrush, I'd expect. I see a curious parallel between the two. They're both deeply implicated in shaming episodes - and both leaders should resign, but they won't. It's lamentable.
    The difference is TM has publicly apologised on camera in front of the Caribbean leaders and is taking action to deal with it.

    Corbyn has done neither
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    edited April 2018
    It is the second item on Radio 4 The World Tonight
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,393

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Jezza like trump has emboldened extremists, antisemites and conspiracy theory nutters.
  • The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Not on BBC at ten news
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Ishmael_Z said:

    As of this afternoon, my theory is that he just outright believes the full Marxist schtick. There's the struggle towards the Revolution, of which Syria/Salisbury/Russia are key ingredients, and there's everything else. Everything else simply doesn't matter, because it is just the sort of shit that arises out of the inherent contradictions of capitalism. Hence his lack of reaction to the Windrush stuff: it is just routine top-hatted capitalists oppressing workers, and we know that is what top-hatted capitalists do to workers: it isn't interesting.

    The other point is that he is very thick. He possibly thinks antisemitism is a necessary part of the dialectic progression: semitism, antisemitism, synsemitism.

    You are projecting again.
  • The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Not on BBC at ten news
    2nd item on ITV news
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited April 2018
    Jonathan said:

    There are plenty of reasons to criticise Corbyn , but his opponents do seem to overdo it sometimes to their own detriment. Dilutes and undermines the serious parts of their critique .


    Corbyn's opponents 'overdo' it because they cannot believe what he is saying and doing, and when they think he cannot get any worse: he does.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Not on BBC at ten news
    2nd item on ITV news
    :+1:

    No sign on BBC as far as I can tell from first few minutes. I have turned over.
  • Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    With respect you are missing the point. The debate today was shocking with not only labour mps in distress but it had both my wife and I shedding tears. My wife is not into politics but I had the debate on live and she sat down beside me in horror. We have never witnessed anything as shameful in the HOC.

    Labour members need to step up to the plate and deal with this - it is not going away
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Not on BBC at ten news
    What the hell are the Beeb playing at? I shall be writing a letter of complaint tomorrow.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    edited April 2018
    Jonathan said:

    There are plenty of reasons to criticise Corbyn , but his opponents do seem to overdo it sometimes to their own detriment. Dilutes and undermines the serious parts of their critique .

    They are his opponents on this issue because he is so unwilling to do anything effective. He won’t even stand up and speak in a Parliamentary debate, him the great passionate campaigner who never turns down an opportunity to go speak to any audience anywhere.

    Does it not occur to you that people like Luciana Berger and Ruth Smeeth and others are so passionate and desperate because they have been asking him to do something and he does the bare minimum, giving every impression of having been forced into it and undermines his statements by his actions? Ruth Smeeth asked him to speak out against the anti-semitic abuse she was receiving from Labour supporters and members a year or so ago and he refused to.

    If he is being criticised in somewhat strident tones by some, he has only himself to blame.

    He had a golden opportunity during this debate to speak out clearly and forcefully, to send a message, to set the tone, to lead by example. He chose not to. It is shameful of him and his behaviour shames the Labour party.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Not on BBC at ten news
    What the hell are the Beeb playing at? I shall be writing a letter of complaint tomorrow.

    Will you cancel your subscription as well?

  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    With respect you are missing the point. The debate today was shocking with not only labour mps in distress but it had both my wife and I shedding tears. My wife is not into politics but I had the debate on live and she sat down beside me in horror. We have never witnessed anything as shameful in the HOC.

    Labour members need to step up to the plate and deal with this - it is not going away
    I have been out all day - what has happened?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,784

    AnneJGP said:

    Dare I suggest that he simply needed to use the loo? A stressful debate; he's not a young man.

    Good evening, everyone.

    Bon soir, madame. Yes, that's one of the sillier criticisms. It's extremely common for MPs to follow a debate standing behind the Speaker's chair - essentially if you need to stretch your legs (the benches are not particularly comfortable) it's one of the only two places you can stand while following the debate (the other one is by the entrance). You can see lots of MPs doing it at every PMQs when there are no seats left.
    I'm sorry, but he does have a clue. He has a very good clue. He knows exactly how to use the symbolism of indifference and his use of it is utterly consistent.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    With respect you are missing the point. The debate today was shocking with not only labour mps in distress but it had both my wife and I shedding tears. My wife is not into politics but I had the debate on live and she sat down beside me in horror. We have never witnessed anything as shameful in the HOC.

    Labour members need to step up to the plate and deal with this - it is not going away
    Well said. It's appalling, just appalling, and no one in Corbyn's inner circle in Labour gives a toss as far as I can see.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    FPT
    Ishmael_Z said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Can anyone sum up what happened with Diane Abbott in the Commons this afternoon?

    She blethered on about how she had a lot of Haredi jews in her constituency and refused to give way to a lot of angry MPs who wanted her to address the more general issues. Then said, I think, that website owners (or facebook? google?) should have real names and addresses for everybody. Looked thoroughly ill and confused.
    Thank you. :)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    I some how doubt if it was another minority group that were recalling horrific stories of abuse, jezza would be quite so relaxed about it.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,920
    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    There are plenty of reasons to criticise Corbyn , but his opponents do seem to overdo it sometimes to their own detriment. Dilutes and undermines the serious parts of their critique .

    They are his opponents on this issue because he is so unwilling to do anything effective. He won’t even stand up and speak in a Parliamentary debate, him the great passionate campaigner who never turns down an opportunity to go speak to any audience anywhere.

    Does it not occur to you that people like Luciana Berger and Ruth Smeeth and others are so passionate and desperate because they have been asking him to do something and he does the bare minimum, giving every impression of having been forced into it and undermines his statements by his actions? Ruth Smeeth asked him to speak out against the anti-semitic abuse she was receiving from Labour supporters and members a year or so ago and he refused to.

    If he is being criticised in somewhat strident tones by some, he has only himself to blame.

    He had a golden opportunity during this debate to speak out clearly and forcefully, to send a message, to set the tone, to lead by example. He chose not to. It is shameful of him and his behaviour shames the Labour party.
    Well said
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    edited April 2018
    removed, otiose.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Except Danny that wasn't what he was criticised for.

    Labour has a dirty, disgusting problem and it needs action
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Because everyone goes to the politics page right
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Not on BBC at ten news
    What the hell are the Beeb playing at? I shall be writing a letter of complaint tomorrow.
    Perhaps they are making up for going way too far in the other direction with their coverage of the Jewdas Seder? Coverage which, incidentally, included a flat-out inaccuracy (they claimed incorrectly on the 6 o'clock news that Jewdas had dismissed all of the antisemitism claims as a "smear campaign against Corbyn").

    There were certainly a lot of Labour people saying they would be complaining over that affair.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Jonathan said:

    There are plenty of reasons to criticise Corbyn , but his opponents do seem to overdo it sometimes to their own detriment. Dilutes and undermines the serious parts of their critique .

    They are his opponents on this issue because he is so unwilling to do anything effective. He won’t even stand up and speak in a Parliamentary debate, him the great passionate campaigner who never turns down an opportunity to go speak to any audience anywhere.

    Does it not occur to you that people like Luciana Berger and Ruth Smeeth and others are so passionate and desperate because they have been asking him to do something and he does the bare minimum, giving every impression of having been forced into it and undermines his statements by his actions? Ruth Smeeth asked him to speak out against the anti-semitic abuse she was receiving from Labour supporters and members a year or so ago and he refused to.

    If he is being criticised in somewhat strident tones by some, he has only himself to blame.

    He had a golden opportunity during this debate to speak out clearly and forcefully, to send a message, to set the tone, to lead by example. He chose not to. It is shameful of him and his behaviour shames the Labour party.
    Well said
    If he refuses to speak out, as he has, repeatedly, then one can only assume he agrees with the perpetrators.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    edited April 2018
    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Don’t be obtuse.

    The fact that he has not bothered to speak, the great passionate campaigner, militant fighter against racism, he called himself recently, in a Parliamentary debate on this very topic is a rather more telling criticism.

    Not that he is an anti-semite but that he simply does not understand the importance of showing real moral and politicsl leadership on a subject which is causing distress to an ethnic minority and to a significant number of his own MPs and some decent Labour supporters, as well as others.

    Far easier to pretend that it’s all about him and misdirected and non-existent, eh!

    When did the Labour party turn into a narcissistic Corbyn fan club?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    Yep, compounded for me is otherwise sensible posters on here ducking and diving and avoiding the problem that Labour have.

    Utterly depressed tonight

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Anazina said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    With respect you are missing the point. The debate today was shocking with not only labour mps in distress but it had both my wife and I shedding tears. My wife is not into politics but I had the debate on live and she sat down beside me in horror. We have never witnessed anything as shameful in the HOC.

    Labour members need to step up to the plate and deal with this - it is not going away
    I have been out all day - what has happened?
    Try ITV, you wont find anything on the BBC.

    More seriously, here: https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/986328782599540737
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    Floater said:

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    Yep, compounded for me is otherwise sensible posters on here ducking and diving and avoiding the problem that Labour have.

    Utterly depressed tonight

    This is it in a nutshell. The Labour party is broken and destroyed as a force for moral good:

    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/986341847885893632
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    Floater said:

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    Yep, compounded for me is otherwise sensible posters on here ducking and diving and avoiding the problem that Labour have.

    Utterly depressed tonight

    Even more depressing is that Labour MPs sitting behind Corbyn on the green benches are endorsing him for PM when they know what a Corbyn led Government will be like. They'll share the responsibility if it happens.
  • Anazina said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    With respect you are missing the point. The debate today was shocking with not only labour mps in distress but it had both my wife and I shedding tears. My wife is not into politics but I had the debate on live and she sat down beside me in horror. We have never witnessed anything as shameful in the HOC.

    Labour members need to step up to the plate and deal with this - it is not going away
    I have been out all day - what has happened?
    Theresa May set today before Easter for a debate on anti Semitism and it provided a stage for labour mp after labour mp to talk of their own personal abuse with contributions by Luciana Berger, Ruth Smeeth, John Mann and others resulting in sobbing and rounds of applause from across the house. Corbyn sat through some of it chunterring before leaving and returning towards the end. Dianne Abbott responded and causing anger from the house over her lack of empathy, indeed she does not look at all well or she was just out of her depth again

    I would suggest you watch Luciana Berger and Ruth Smeeth's contrbutions to see why my wife and I shed tears.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    edited April 2018
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Floater said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Except Danny that wasn't what he was criticised for.
    Eh? The thread header literally is criticising him for "leaving the chamber" (aka: standing behind the Speaker's Chair rather than sitting down).
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,393
    Floater said:

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Because everyone goes to the politics page right
    Seems the obvious place to go to find out about a House of Commons debate.
  • chloechloe Posts: 308

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    Yep, compounded for me is otherwise sensible posters on here ducking and diving and avoiding the problem that Labour have.

    Utterly depressed tonight

    Even more depressing is that Labour MPs sitting behind Corbyn on the green benches are endorsing him for PM when they know what a Corbyn led Government will be like. They'll share the responsibility if it happens.
    Feck me - I will volunteer for any party that promises to keep those scum away from power.

    Never worked for or belonged to any political party before - but these are dangerous times and the Labour party are becoming dangerous
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Floater said:

    The BBC news better lead tonight on the shocking, shameful, frankly f-ing awful scenes we have seen today in Parliament over anti-semites.

    But I wont hold my breath.

    Struggled to find it on BBC news webstite so doubt it will be the headline
    Go to the Politics page. Prominent there.
    Because everyone goes to the politics page right
    Seems the obvious place to go to find out about a House of Commons debate.
    Yes of course Sandy......

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Danny565 said:

    Floater said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Except Danny that wasn't what he was criticised for.
    Eh? The thread header literally is criticising him for "leaving the chamber" (aka: standing behind the Speaker's Chair rather than sitting down).
    "wrong kind of jews"

    You have been told countless times but keep repeating the lie.

  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    I don't have time to see if anyone else has brought this up, but take a look at

    https://labourlist.org/2018/04/richard-angell-if-corbyn-wants-to-rid-labour-of-antisemitism-he-could-clean-up-twitter/

    Then have a look at the comments. Bloody hell. Heads in sands. Fingers in ears. La-di-da-di-da. Can't hear you. Oh and aren't the Board of Deputies of British Jews all white so doesn't that mean actually they're the racist ones? And they have "backgrounds in finance and banking"? And why are traitor Labour MPs mentioning abuse in the Labour party when this would be a great opportunity to attack Tory anti-Semitism - oh that's because they're all right-wing "Labour" Jew traitors who would prefer the Tories to be in government than for the Left to be in charge of Labour. And besides it's been funded and conspired by right-wing smearers to drone out people who voice pro-Palestine opinions. Some extreme Jews in Israel have said anti-black things so definitely it's the Jews who are the Real Racists. Anyway I'm fed up with Jewish whining.

    Gooooood grief. What a bloody cess-pit.

    If anyone hasn't done so, have a listen to at least the Smeeth, Berger and Mann speeches. Very powerful stuff. And potentially a long and up-hill battle ahead of them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    Floater said:

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    Yep, compounded for me is otherwise sensible posters on here ducking and diving and avoiding the problem that Labour have.

    Utterly depressed tonight

    Even more depressing is that Labour MPs sitting behind Corbyn on the green benches are endorsing him for PM when they know what a Corbyn led Government will be like. They'll share the responsibility if it happens.
    Yes, thrice yes.
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    edited April 2018
    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Again with the gaslighting. Were his Passover antics the most egregious example of Labour antisemitism? Plainly not, compared to his invitations to blood-libellers and references to honoured friends who happen to want to 'exterminate the Zionists'.

    But the notion that when accused of harbouring racism and prejudice against a group as a whole, you can refuse to meet the representative bodies of the vast majority of that group, and then go to a

    If a Conservative Politician accused of hating Muslims refused to meet any mainstream Muslim groups and excused himself by going for dinner with Salman Rushdie, Maajid Nawaz, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, oh and by the way at the dinner the names of prominent UK muslim leaders are read out and booed, the left would be screaming "off with his head".

    It's barely a step up from the Palestine Solidarity lot parading Neturei Karta at their demos, frankly.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    Yep, compounded for me is otherwise sensible posters on here ducking and diving and avoiding the problem that Labour have.

    Utterly depressed tonight

    Even more depressing is that Labour MPs sitting behind Corbyn on the green benches are endorsing him for PM when they know what a Corbyn led Government will be like. They'll share the responsibility if it happens.
    Feck me - I will volunteer for any party that promises to keep those scum away from power.

    Never worked for or belonged to any political party before - but these are dangerous times and the Labour party are becoming dangerous
    I think you would make a good Lib Dem candidate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    BBC News. 25 mins in. Finally mentions the debate.

    25 mins in!!!!!!
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    chloe said:

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
    Could be his six questions at PMQs .
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Yorkcity said:

    Floater said:

    Floater said:

    Quite possibly the most shaming day in the entire history of the Labour party frankly.

    Fucking awful and depressing.

    Yep, compounded for me is otherwise sensible posters on here ducking and diving and avoiding the problem that Labour have.

    Utterly depressed tonight

    Even more depressing is that Labour MPs sitting behind Corbyn on the green benches are endorsing him for PM when they know what a Corbyn led Government will be like. They'll share the responsibility if it happens.
    Feck me - I will volunteer for any party that promises to keep those scum away from power.

    Never worked for or belonged to any political party before - but these are dangerous times and the Labour party are becoming dangerous
    I think you would make a good Lib Dem candidate.
    Martin Goss here would be a perfect Mp - already a councillor and works tirelessly for his community.

    I honestly don't know how he finds the time as he has a day job.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    I don't have time to see if anyone else has brought this up, but take a look at

    https://labourlist.org/2018/04/richard-angell-if-corbyn-wants-to-rid-labour-of-antisemitism-he-could-clean-up-twitter/

    Then have a look at the comments. Bloody hell. Heads in sands. Fingers in ears. La-di-da-di-da. Can't hear you. Oh and aren't the Board of Deputies of British Jews all white so doesn't that mean actually they're the racist ones? And they have "backgrounds in finance and banking"? And why are traitor Labour MPs mentioning abuse in the Labour party when this would be a great opportunity to attack Tory anti-Semitism - oh that's because they're all right-wing "Labour" Jew traitors who would prefer the Tories to be in government than for the Left to be in charge of Labour. And besides it's been funded and conspired by right-wing smearers to drone out people who voice pro-Palestine opinions. Some extreme Jews in Israel have said anti-black things so definitely it's the Jews who are the Real Racists. Anyway I'm fed up with Jewish whining.

    Gooooood grief. What a bloody cess-pit.

    If anyone hasn't done so, have a listen to at least the Smeeth, Berger and Mann speeches. Very powerful stuff. And potentially a long and up-hill battle ahead of them.

    Wilson's words ring hollow tonight:

    “The Labour party is a moral crusade or it is nothing.”
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jeremy Corbyn is evidently doing what he regards to be the bare minimum on the subject. I expect he’ll get away with that too.

    Race has re-entered politics with a vengeance after the EU referendum. Sadly, none of the Leavers on here who so stridently condemn Jeremy Corbyn have yet found themselves able to accept that the Leave campaign pandered to xenophobia. They should concentrate on getting their own house in order before luxuriating in condemning opponents.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    I some how doubt if it was another minority group that were recalling horrific stories of abuse, jezza would be quite so relaxed about it.

    You mean like when he sacked Sarah Champion for her comments relating to the abuse of young girls In Rotherham ?
  • Yorkcity said:

    chloe said:

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
    Could be his six questions at PMQs .
    Doubt it - The PM response will be I have publicly apologised and am dealing with it and no one will be deported unlike the way you have allowed anti semitic views to take hold in your party
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    It's the lead in the Telegraph too.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    Arrrgh who the hell can I vote for now?! Are all the parties trying to make me feel dirty if I dare even countenance voting for them? I can't think of anybody I could easily forgive myself voting for.*

    * No "easy option" of voting Lib Dem or Green as a "none of the above", conscience-absolving wasted vote either. I currently hold those parties in absolute contempt over Brexit. In one EU election where I was not satisfied by Labour's line on the EU (but didn't want to feel I was supporting the more racist fringe of UKIP) I have been known to vote for an anti-EU left bloc full of proper Communists. And I hate Communism, it's a system of government that has killed tens of millions of people. But I still somehow feel less guilty about having voted for them, than I can imagine doing about anyone who's going to appear on my ballot paper in a few days.

    I've never not voted. Always thought the memory of those people who fought to win me my ballot deserved it. But this is an absolute shower all round. What I would give for a Residents' Association!!!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/986357299387293696

    Is he back in Labour? I've lost track.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Danny565 said:

    Floater said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Except Danny that wasn't what he was criticised for.
    Eh? The thread header literally is criticising him for "leaving the chamber" (aka: standing behind the Speaker's Chair rather than sitting down).
    Tom Peck (of the tweets in the header, and a parliamentary sketch writer familiar with the conventions of the HoC) says a."he left the chamber," b. he then returned for a "lengthy, curious spell standing with his hands in his pockets behind the Speakers chair," then c. returned to the front bench. Your attempt to conflate a. and b. with "aka" is transparently dishonest (unless you have been misled by Dr Palmer at his most exuberantly Panglossian). Corbyn left the Chamber because he's a coward. He is also incontrovertibly tolerant of all forms of anti-semitism in his own party: you can't get round the fact that Livingstone has not been expelled from the party. Whether he is himself in his heart of hearts anti-semitic is unknowable by you or me (although the fact that you are peddling the almost infallible anti-semite-indicator "some of his best friends are Jewish is pretty telling), and irrelevant.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited April 2018

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Again with the gaslighting. Were his Passover antics the most egregious example of Labour antisemitism? Plainly not, compared to his invitations to blood-libellers and references to honoured friends who happen to want to 'exterminate the Zionists'.

    But the notion that when accused of harbouring racism and prejudice against a group as a whole, you can refuse to meet the representative bodies of the vast majority of that group, and then go to a
    https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/977988107156017152

    The Passover seder was of course after 25th March.

    Bit difficult to criticse him for not meeting people who didn't want to meet him so he meet a different group.

    Well I say difficult but when did carefully constructed propaganda designed to create a narrative need to be true....

    Onto which I should point out the people jailed for Luciana Berger have been neo-nazi's (at least the ones I've found) who started a campaign against her before Corbyn even became leader. One of the people jailed in one of his abusive tweets called her a communist something.

    I assume this is still Corbyn's fault though, as I guess the idea behind the debate was people would talk about their experiences with anti-semitism, some people would call out Corbyn and then the two could be linked in some people's minds even when they are not.

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    No, he’s a buttress of the church: he supports it from the outside.
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Again with the gaslighting. Were his Passover antics the most egregious example of Labour antisemitism? Plainly not, compared to his invitations to blood-libellers and references to honoured friends who happen to want to 'exterminate the Zionists'.

    But the notion that when accused of harbouring racism and prejudice against a group as a whole, you can refuse to meet the representative bodies of the vast majority of that group, and then go to a
    https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/977988107156017152

    The Passover seder was of course after 25th March.

    Bit difficult to refuse to meet him, then criticise him for meeting someone else.

    Well I say difficult but when did carefully constructed propaganda designed to create a narrative need to be true....

    Onto which I should point out the people jailed for Luciana Berger have been neo-nazi's (at least the ones I've found) who started a campaign against her before Corbyn even became leader. One of the people jailed in one of his abusive tweets called her a communist something.

    I assume this is still Corbyn's fault though, as I guess the idea behind the debate was people would talk about their experiences with anti-semitism, some people would call out Corbyn and then the two could be linked in some people's minds even when they are not.

    "Neo-Nazis" or "Defenders of the Absolute Boy"? It's getting kinda hard to tell the difference.

    One of the “senior academics” who signed a letter in @guardian supporting @jeremycorbyn on #LabourAntisemtism is, in fact, an antisemite who shares Neo Nazi propaganda. She’s also admin of @uklabour Facebook Forum https://t.co/N1UGjkVtDG

    — #LabourAntisemitism (@GnasherJew) April 17, 2018

  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    Even more depressing is that Labour MPs sitting behind Corbyn on the green benches are endorsing him for PM when they know what a Corbyn led Government will be like. They'll share the responsibility if it happens.

    I know I keep making comparisons between Corbyn and Trump, but the reason I do it is because it's blindingly obvious that a similar thing is happening here if you look at it with the politics removed.

    Here's a GOP Congressman saying he's never heard Trump lie. He must be deaf as a post.

    http://www.newsweek.com/gop-lawmaker-jim-jordan-donald-trump-never-lied-889057

    You can easily imagine a similar ridiculous denial regarding some aspect of Corbyn's character coming from a loyal Labour MP.

    I've no doubt that in the long term the GOP will bitterly regret getting into bed with Trump. The same will apply to the Labour Party if they don't have the sense to stop Corbyn and co. before it is too late.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Yorkcity said:

    chloe said:

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
    Could be his six questions at PMQs .
    Doubt it - The PM response will be I have publicly apologised and am dealing with it and no one will be deported unlike the way you have allowed anti semitic views to take hold in your party
    Given what’s already reported to have happened, I think many in the Windrush generation are going to have to see words put into practice before they feel the situation is resolved.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2018
    edit
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049
    edited April 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Don’t be obtuse.

    The fact that he has not bothered to speak, the great passionate campaigner, militant fighter against racism, he called himself recently, in a Parliamentary debate on this very topic is a rather more telling criticism.

    Not that he is an anti-semite but that he simply does not understand the importance of showing real moral and politicsl leadership on a subject which is causing distress to an ethnic minority and to a significant number of his own MPs and some decent Labour supporters, as well as others.

    Far easier to pretend that it’s all about him and misdirected and non-existent, eh!

    When did the Labour party turn into a narcissistic Corbyn fan club?
    When Corbyn stood to be leader...and the likes of Margaret Becket, Jo Cox, Sadiq Khan helped provide his ideological grouping a platform through some misguided means of having some kind of debate...

    As happened with Cameron over Brexit and the Republicans with the Tea Party...you show these ideologues a titillating taste of a bone, and they whack your arm off, and then your'e fucked......
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Jeremy Corbyn is evidently doing what he regards to be the bare minimum on the subject. I expect he’ll get away with that too.

    Race has re-entered politics with a vengeance after the EU referendum. Sadly, none of the Leavers on here who so stridently condemn Jeremy Corbyn have yet found themselves able to accept that the Leave campaign pandered to xenophobia. They should concentrate on getting their own house in order before luxuriating in condemning opponents.

    Excuse me but:-

    1. Not all the people on here condemning Corbyn are Leavers and some have condemned the way the Leave campaign spoke about immigration and the language used by our politicians since the referendum; and

    2. Problems with anti-semitism in Labour and Corbyn’s attitude to it predated the referendum. Corbyn was criticised precisely because of his history and background when he was a candidate for leader because of the concern that he would drag the Labour party down to his level.

    June 2016 was not some sort of Year Zero for racist/xenophobic attitudes.
  • Yorkcity said:

    chloe said:

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
    Could be his six questions at PMQs .
    Doubt it - The PM response will be I have publicly apologised and am dealing with it and no one will be deported unlike the way you have allowed anti semitic views to take hold in your party
    Given what’s already reported to have happened, I think many in the Windrush generation are going to have to see words put into practice before they feel the situation is resolved.
    Absolutely agree and you will see I have been furious over this issue and Amber Rudd should have dealt with it when it landed on her desk some months ago. I am confident this will be dealt now while I have no confidence in Corbyn dealing with his problems
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Jeremy Corbyn has a problem with the Jews. Thats not new.


  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited April 2018

    Danny565 said:





    "Neo-Nazis" or "Defenders of the Absolute Boy"? It's getting kinda hard to tell the difference.

    One of the “senior academics” who signed a letter in @guardian supporting @jeremycorbyn on #LabourAntisemtism is, in fact, an antisemite who shares Neo Nazi propaganda. She’s also admin of @uklabour Facebook Forum https://t.co/N1UGjkVtDG

    — #LabourAntisemitism (@GnasherJew) April 17, 2018



    "Neo-nazi's" or "Brexiteers"? It's getting kinda hard to tell the difference*.

    (link of person who liked Brexit but said racist stuff goes here)

    *Said to make a point, I don't think leave voters are racist.

  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Don’t be obtuse.

    The fact that he has not bothered to speak, the great passionate campaigner, militant fighter against racism, he called himself recently, in a Parliamentary debate on this very topic is a rather more telling criticism.

    Not that he is an anti-semite but that he simply does not understand the importance of showing real moral and politicsl leadership on a subject which is causing distress to an ethnic minority and to a significant number of his own MPs and some decent Labour supporters, as well as others.

    Far easier to pretend that it’s all about him and misdirected and non-existent, eh!

    When did the Labour party turn into a narcissistic Corbyn fan club?
    When Corbyn stood to be leader...and the likes of Margaret Becket, Jo Cox, Sadiq Khan helped provide his ideological grouping a platform through some misguided means of having some kind of debate...

    As happened with Cameron over Brexit and the Republicans with the Tea Party...you show these ideologues a titillating taste of a bone, and they whack your arm off, and then your'e fucked......
    It was pure arrogance from centrists. Nominate Corbyn to give off a pretence of debate while assuming they already had the leadership won. As soon as Corbyn got nominated I had a bad feeling. Obviously it turned out that Labour really did have a debate, and that the membership were not massive Blairites but unsurprisingly more left wing than the PLP. Why the PLP didn’t think the membership would take the opportunity to elect someone like Corbyn I’ll never know.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    Yorkcity said:

    chloe said:

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
    Could be his six questions at PMQs .
    Doubt it - The PM response will be I have publicly apologised and am dealing with it and no one will be deported unlike the way you have allowed anti semitic views to take hold in your party
    Given what’s already reported to have happened, I think many in the Windrush generation are going to have to see words put into practice before they feel the situation is resolved.
    Absolutely agree and you will see I have been furious over this issue and Amber Rudd should have dealt with it when it landed on her desk some months ago. I am confident this will be dealt now while I have no confidence in Corbyn dealing with his problems
    I couldn't imagine Corbyn has ever managed a pissup in a brewery, let alone anything that relies on any kind of managerial acumen.... Yes...he has some qualities, but leadership, strategy, pragmatism, flexibility....a big fat zilch....
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005

    I don't have time to see if anyone else has brought this up, but take a look at

    https://labourlist.org/2018/04/richard-angell-if-corbyn-wants-to-rid-labour-of-antisemitism-he-could-clean-up-twitter/

    Then have a look at the comments. Bloody hell. Heads in sands. Fingers in ears. La-di-da-di-da. Can't hear you. Oh and aren't the Board of Deputies of British Jews all white so doesn't that mean actually they're the racist ones? And they have "backgrounds in finance and banking"? And why are traitor Labour MPs mentioning abuse in the Labour party when this would be a great opportunity to attack Tory anti-Semitism - oh that's because they're all right-wing "Labour" Jew traitors who would prefer the Tories to be in government than for the Left to be in charge of Labour. And besides it's been funded and conspired by right-wing smearers to drone out people who voice pro-Palestine opinions. Some extreme Jews in Israel have said anti-black things so definitely it's the Jews who are the Real Racists. Anyway I'm fed up with Jewish whining.

    Gooooood grief. What a bloody cess-pit.

    If anyone hasn't done so, have a listen to at least the Smeeth, Berger and Mann speeches. Very powerful stuff. And potentially a long and up-hill battle ahead of them.

    Wilson's words ring hollow tonight:

    “The Labour party is a moral crusade or it is nothing.”
    Why's that? It seems truer than ever. Whether it's crusading for the right thing is another matter.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Again with the gaslighting. Were his Passover antics the most egregious example of Labour antisemitism? Plainly not, compared to his invitations to blood-libellers and references to honoured friends who happen to want to 'exterminate the Zionists'.

    But the notion that when accused of harbouring racism and prejudice against a group as a whole, you can refuse to meet the representative bodies of the vast majority of that group, and then go to a
    https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/977988107156017152

    The Passover seder was of course after 25th March.

    Bit difficult to criticse him for not meeting people who didn't want to meet him so he meet a different group.

    Well I say difficult but when did carefully constructed propaganda designed to create a narrative need to be true....

    Onto which I should point out the people jailed for Luciana Berger have been neo-nazi's (at least the ones I've found) who started a campaign against her before Corbyn even became leader. One of the people jailed in one of his abusive tweets called her a communist something.

    I assume this is still Corbyn's fault though, as I guess the idea behind the debate was people would talk about their experiences with anti-semitism, some people would call out Corbyn and then the two could be linked in some people's minds even when they are not.

    Ms Berger made it clear that she had received abuse from far right groups and also from those on the far left. As did Ruth Smeeth. She specifically asked Corbyn to speak out against those who were using the “JC4PM” hashtag to launch anti-semitic abuse. He did not do so.

    That is what he is being criticised for. Are you happy with that? He was apparently OK with people claiming to be his supporters to spew out racist filth against a Labour MP and his response was ...... silence.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Danny565 said:

    Floater said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Except Danny that wasn't what he was criticised for.
    Eh? The thread header literally is criticising him for "leaving the chamber" (aka: standing behind the Speaker's Chair rather than sitting down).
    Tom Peck (of the tweets in the header, and a parliamentary sketch writer familiar with the conventions of the HoC) says a."he left the chamber," b. he then returned for a "lengthy, curious spell standing with his hands in his pockets behind the Speakers chair," then c. returned to the front bench. Your attempt to conflate a. and b. with "aka" is transparently dishonest (unless you have been misled by Dr Palmer at his most exuberantly Panglossian). Corbyn left the Chamber because he's a coward. He is also incontrovertibly tolerant of all forms of anti-semitism in his own party: you can't get round the fact that Livingstone has not been expelled from the party. Whether he is himself in his heart of hearts anti-semitic is unknowable by you or me (although the fact that you are peddling the almost infallible anti-semite-indicator "some of his best friends are Jewish is pretty telling), and irrelevant.
    I didn't watch the debate, so I'll happily admit if I'm wrong on how long Corbyn was absent for; the posts I've read on Twitter have suggested it was for only a few minutes, which if true would make the claims that he was "ducking the debate" look very feeble indeed.

    And I don't disagree that Ken Livingstone (and others like him) should be expelled, and that it doesn't reflect well on the Labour "powers that be" that he hasn't been. But getting that sorted is inevitably going to be much harder when right-wing commentators are making it seem like the whole thing is a concerted campaign against Corbyn, when they criticise him for things like the Jewdas seder. As I said, I could see the sea-change in Labour members' attitudes on Twitter after that story broke -- when the criticism against a party starts to become self-evidently ridiculous, that party's members are always going to "close ranks" rather than confront their own weaknesses (which was starting to happen before the Jewdas story).
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Yorkcity said:

    chloe said:

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
    Could be his six questions at PMQs .
    Doubt it - The PM response will be I have publicly apologised and am dealing with it and no one will be deported unlike the way you have allowed anti semitic views to take hold in your party
    Given what’s already reported to have happened, I think many in the Windrush generation are going to have to see words put into practice before they feel the situation is resolved.
    Absolutely agree and you will see I have been furious over this issue and Amber Rudd should have dealt with it when it landed on her desk some months ago. I am confident this will be dealt now while I have no confidence in Corbyn dealing with his problems
    I don’t have much confidence in Corbyn on dealing with antisemitism as well. But the way the Home Office has handled the Windrush issue doesn’t exactly provide me with much confidence in them either.

    British politics is very depressing right now.
  • Tonight poll for the Independent

    61% think labour have a problem with racism or religious prejudice with only UKIP receiving a comparable score

    Just think of that for a minute
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    tyson said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    Well, I suppose the accusation that he's shown his antisemitism by standing up for a while during the debate rather than sitting down, is a little less laughably desperate than accusing him of antisemitism for going to Passover with the wrong kind of Jews..... but not much.

    Don’t be obtuse.

    The fact that he has not bothered to speak, the great passionate campaigner, militant fighter against racism, he called himself recently, in a Parliamentary debate on this very topic is a rather more telling criticism.

    Not that he is an anti-semite but that he simply does not understand the importance of showing real moral and politicsl leadership on a subject which is causing distress to an ethnic minority and to a significant number of his own MPs and some decent Labour supporters, as well as others.

    Far easier to pretend that it’s all about him and misdirected and non-existent, eh!

    When did the Labour party turn into a narcissistic Corbyn fan club?
    When Corbyn stood to be leader...and the likes of Margaret Becket, Jo Cox, Sadiq Khan helped provide his ideological grouping a platform through some misguided means of having some kind of debate...

    As happened with Cameron over Brexit and the Republicans with the Tea Party...you show these ideologues a titillating taste of a bone, and they whack your arm off, and then your'e fucked......
    It was pure arrogance from centrists. Nominate Corbyn to give off a pretence of debate while assuming they already had the leadership won. As soon as Corbyn got nominated I had a bad feeling. Obviously it turned out that Labour really did have a debate, and that the membership were not massive Blairites but unsurprisingly more left wing than the PLP. Why the PLP didn’t think the membership would take the opportunity to elect someone like Corbyn I’ll never know.
    Because Corbyn was an old, ineffectual duffer...I would have voted for him too as a Centrist Burnhamlite Labour MP, just to see something different for the couple of months of debate.....JesusH though with a capital J and H...you could not have predicted that they resurrected Frankenstein who takes a kicking and keeps on ticking....
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074

    Yorkcity said:

    chloe said:

    Another aspect of this struck me yesterday. When I saw Rudd and May shifting uncomfortably in response to David Lammy's speech yesterday, for me it was the sight of the opposition actually landing blows on the Government. So rare nowadays, and what Corbyn has singularly failed to do ever since he became leader.

    Corbyn could have called a debate on the deportations. Instead he went for a debate on the air strikes.
    Could be his six questions at PMQs .
    Doubt it - The PM response will be I have publicly apologised and am dealing with it and no one will be deported unlike the way you have allowed anti semitic views to take hold in your party
    Given what’s already reported to have happened, I think many in the Windrush generation are going to have to see words put into practice before they feel the situation is resolved.
    And I hope there will be swift and generous compensation as well.
  • Y0kel said:

    Jeremy Corbyn has a problem with the Jews. Thats not new.


    You could not possibly say that if you had seen today's shocking debate in the HOC
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