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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB and the LDs must be hoping to move up the BBC National vot

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited April 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB and the LDs must be hoping to move up the BBC National vote share projection next week – with the Tories edging down

We are only 8 days away from the May local elections which at the moment looks as though will be the most significant UK electoral test that we will have during 2018.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Just a bit of fun.
  • Apologies, put this right at the end of the previous thread but in case anyone is interested in the US elections.

    I spent some time in California two weeks ago. To put in context, my wife is from Los Angeles and we visit twice a year to visit her family who are staunch Democrats. I have been making that trip for over 20 years.

    I have to say that, obvious though it sounds, this was the most polarised I have ever seen both the TV and national news. You could take the same information and both sides will give you diametrically opposing interpretations. Neither side had much good to say about the other.

    One thing about the whole Mueller investigation that has not had much reporting over here is that, for Republicans and the Trump fans, the real story about Mueller is not about Russian collaboration but how the evidence allegedly points to the "Deep State" trying to overthrow Trump and how the Obama administration used the FBI and CIA to hand victory to Clinton and then tried to overthrow Trump when he won. That is energising the Republican base in favour of Trump.

    Two US betting implications I thought of.

    1. I think Republican turnout will be high. The consensus view is that there will be a blue wave but, apart from the generic Congress polls have been tightening, the Trump fan base looks very incentivised to come out and vote to defend their man. I don't know whether the Arizona 8th voting is a sign of that given the early trends.

    2. I don't for the life of me see how Democrat senators in places like West Virginia, Montana, Indiana or Missouri are going to survive. Regardless of how good or popular they are, people are just taking sides and saying you are either with us or against us. I am sure someone will produce a poll saying Democrat senators are hanging on in places like that but I really do not see it. The mood has just become so polarised that people are not going to cross-vote
  • 5 - 0 - Liverpool in final
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    Roma falling apart after a steady start like the UKIP NEV from 2013, never seen anything like it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Which communists have had a worse performance this evening? Jezza with the jews or roma?
  • Which communists have had a worse performance this evening? Jezza with the jews or roma?

    Corbyn is a disgrace - Roma are a poor football team
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    5 - 0 - Liverpool in final

    Wow
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    (Starts looking at flights to Kiev next month)
  • Floater said:

    5 - 0 - Liverpool in final

    Wow
    Embarrassingly easy but Mo Salah is near Messi in class
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Which communists have had a worse performance this evening? Jezza with the jews or roma?

    Liverpool also a leftist club

    Merseyside socialists 5
    Italian communists 0
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024

    Apologies, put this right at the end of the previous thread but in case anyone is interested in the US elections.

    I spent some time in California two weeks ago. To put in context, my wife is from Los Angeles and we visit twice a year to visit her family who are staunch Democrats. I have been making that trip for over 20 years.

    I have to say that, obvious though it sounds, this was the most polarised I have ever seen both the TV and national news. You could take the same information and both sides will give you diametrically opposing interpretations. Neither side had much good to say about the other.

    One thing about the whole Mueller investigation that has not had much reporting over here is that, for Republicans and the Trump fans, the real story about Mueller is not about Russian collaboration but how the evidence allegedly points to the "Deep State" trying to overthrow Trump and how the Obama administration used the FBI and CIA to hand victory to Clinton and then tried to overthrow Trump when he won. That is energising the Republican base in favour of Trump.

    Two US betting implications I thought of.

    1. I think Republican turnout will be high. The consensus view is that there will be a blue wave but, apart from the generic Congress polls have been tightening, the Trump fan base looks very incentivised to come out and vote to defend their man. I don't know whether the Arizona 8th voting is a sign of that given the early trends.

    2. I don't for the life of me see how Democrat senators in places like West Virginia, Montana, Indiana or Missouri are going to survive. Regardless of how good or popular they are, people are just taking sides and saying you are either with us or against us. I am sure someone will produce a poll saying Democrat senators are hanging on in places like that but I really do not see it. The mood has just become so polarised that people are not going to cross-vote

    I can't see Manchin losing in WV.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Manchin
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Which communists have had a worse performance this evening? Jezza with the jews or roma?

    Corbyn is a disgrace - Roma are a poor football team
    All the jezza defenders keep saying his can’t be an antisemite, but whenever he is asked to act against it, i’ve seen more decisive action from a teenager asked to clean their room.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    FFS Liverpool. :angry:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018
    Anazina said:

    Which communists have had a worse performance this evening? Jezza with the jews or roma?

    Liverpool also a leftist club

    Merseyside socialists 5
    Italian communists 0
    To give them their full title...Merseyside leftie leavers...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    tlg86 said:

    FFS Liverpool. :angry:

    Double FFS,a s they miss another opportunity to go five clear.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018
    Has PB poncyboots (TSE) gone to the game this evening?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    kle4 said:

    tlg86 said:

    FFS Liverpool. :angry:

    Double FFS,a s they miss another opportunity to go five clear.
    I don't care about them winning, but I needed a clean sheet for the dreamteam.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Oh dear away goal...


  • I can't see Manchin losing in WV.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Manchin

    I know what you mean and, in any ordinary year, I would say that is right. I just do not see it this time round. Even if you are like Manchin, you are viewed by Trump supporters as the enemy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Dzecko was never that good for Man City.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    I wouldnt book those flights quite yet
  • 5 - 2
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    edited April 2018
    WTF is up with this Liverpool team? Suddenly Roma look like scoring every time they go forward - I know Salah is talismanic, but for heaven's sake.

    Should have been 8-0, now Roma just need to repeat their feats of the last round.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    God the odds you would have got on Roma qualifying 10 minutes ago.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Liverpool defence....as solid as labour’s vetting of candidates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833

    I wouldnt book those flights quite yet

    Feck!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/988877914744737792

    Is that political speak for couldn’t afford them?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Dzecko was never that good for Man City.

    I disagree. He was always a good player, but they rarely played him and Aguero together.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Sandpit said:

    I wouldnt book those flights quite yet

    Feck!
    I am sure a few days in Kiev while Real Madrid play Roma would be lovely ;-)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    I always laugh whenever people say Klopp has sorted out this Liverpool defence - sure they don't concede as much, when the team have been rampant inattack, but as soon as they face pressure, they're meringue like.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited April 2018

    Apologies, put this right at the end of the previous thread but in case anyone is interested in the US elections.

    I spent some time in California two weeks ago. To put in context, my wife is from Los Angeles and we visit twice a year to visit her family who are staunch Democrats. I have been making that trip for over 20 years.

    I have to say that, obvious though it sounds, this was the most polarised I have ever seen both the TV and national news. You could take the same information and both sides will give you diametrically opposing interpretations. Neither side had much good to say about the other.

    One thing about the whole Mueller investigation that has not had much reporting over here is that, for Republicans and the Trump fans, the real story about Mueller is not about Russian collaboration but how the evidence allegedly points to the "Deep State" trying to overthrow Trump and how the Obama administration used the FBI and CIA to hand victory to Clinton and then tried to overthrow Trump when he won. That is energising the Republican base in favour of Trump.

    Two US betting implications I thought of.

    1. I think Republican turnout will be high. The consensus view is that there will be a blue wave but, apart from the generic Congress polls have been tightening, the Trump fan base looks very incentivised to come out and vote to defend their man. I don't know whether the Arizona 8th voting is a sign of that given the early trends.

    2. I don't for the life of me see how Democrat senators in places like West Virginia, Montana, Indiana or Missouri are going to survive. Regardless of how good or popular they are, people are just taking sides and saying you are either with us or against us. I am sure someone will produce a poll saying Democrat senators are hanging on in places like that but I really do not see it. The mood has just become so polarised that people are not going to cross-vote

    I can't see Manchin losing in WV.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Manchin
    Particularly as the Republican candidate is likely to be the CEO of a coal company that has an appalling safety record.

    I'm not sure the Republican/Trump base is as energized as TheKitchenCabinet reckons, and I think the Democratic base is way more energized: they're mad as hell and want blood.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833

    Sandpit said:

    I wouldnt book those flights quite yet

    Feck!
    I am sure a few days in Kiev while Real Madrid play Roma would be lovely ;-)
    My in-laws live in Kiev...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    edited April 2018
    Can't cost more than £350m a week, right?

    https://twitter.com/ftwestminster/status/988879013417508864
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024
    kle4 said:

    I always laugh whenever people say Klopp has sorted out this Liverpool defence - sure they don't concede as much, when the team have been rampant inattack, but as soon as they face pressure, they're meringue like.

    Substituting Salah doesn't seem like the wisest act of football management does it.

    When you're so dependent upon attacking play disrupting your forward line risks losing all your momentum.
  • Fancy Liverpool supporters whistling for full time
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I wouldnt book those flights quite yet

    Feck!
    I am sure a few days in Kiev while Real Madrid play Roma would be lovely ;-)
    My in-laws live in Kiev...
    Hard to tell from that response if that is a good thing or a bad thing!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    I wouldnt book those flights quite yet

    Feck!
    I am sure a few days in Kiev while Real Madrid play Roma would be lovely ;-)
    My in-laws live in Kiev...
    Hard to tell from that response if that is a good thing or a bad thing!
    The good thing would be that I wouldn’t have to fork out for an hotel...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    The leader of Germany's Jewish community has advised Jews to avoid wearing traditional skullcaps (kippahs) following anti-Semitic attacks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    BBC have a photo of a fan (unclear which side) carrying a hammer outside Liverpool game. I hope that isn’t what hit the guy who was downed when Roma fans attacked.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    BBC have a photo of a fan (unclear which side) carrying a hammer outside Liverpool game. I hope that isn’t what hit the guy who was downed when Roma fans attacked.

    I wasn't there, so can't really comment on what's gone on tonight. However, I would advise Liverpool fans travelling to Rome next week to keep as low a profile as possible.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018
    tlg86 said:

    BBC have a photo of a fan (unclear which side) carrying a hammer outside Liverpool game. I hope that isn’t what hit the guy who was downed when Roma fans attacked.

    I wasn't there, so can't really comment on what's gone on tonight. However, I would advise Liverpool fans travelling to Rome next week to keep as low a profile as possible.
    If I remember correctly don’t they have a reputation for unprovoked stabbing opposition fans in the butt.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024
    tlg86 said:

    BBC have a photo of a fan (unclear which side) carrying a hammer outside Liverpool game. I hope that isn’t what hit the guy who was downed when Roma fans attacked.

    I wasn't there, so can't really comment on what's gone on tonight. However, I would advise Liverpool fans travelling to Rome next week to keep as low a profile as possible.
    In 1984 Lazio fans offered to tool up the Scousers.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    BBC have a photo of a fan (unclear which side) carrying a hammer outside Liverpool game. I hope that isn’t what hit the guy who was downed when Roma fans attacked.

    I wasn't there, so can't really comment on what's gone on tonight. However, I would advise Liverpool fans travelling to Rome next week to keep as low a profile as possible.
    If I remember correctly don’t they have a reputation for unprovoked stabbing opposition fans in the butt.
    I think so, and I believe there is a bridge that fans are told to avoid. It doesn't help that the Lazio fans will fancy joining in too.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024

    The leader of Germany's Jewish community has advised Jews to avoid wearing traditional skullcaps (kippahs) following anti-Semitic attacks.

    Germany should be ashamed of itself.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    The leader of Germany's Jewish community has advised Jews to avoid wearing traditional skullcaps (kippahs) following anti-Semitic attacks.

    He's just weaponising allegations of anti-semitism to embarrass the Labour Party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/988879254401224704

    “But when it came to proposals for concrete action there was absolutely nothing. Nothing. The bottom line is that we got nothing from the meeting. Not a thing.”
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    The leader of Germany's Jewish community has advised Jews to avoid wearing traditional skullcaps (kippahs) following anti-Semitic attacks.

    France is realising they may have a bit of an anti semitic problem

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/22/ethnic-purging-french-stars-and-dignitaries-condemn-antisemitism
  • I can't see Manchin losing in WV.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Manchin

    Particularly as the Republican candidate is likely to be the CEO of a coal company that has an appalling safety record.

    I'm not sure the Republican/Trump base is as energized as TheKitchenCabinet reckons, and I think the Democratic base is way more energized: they're mad as hell and want blood.

    Happy to have a £1 Gentleman's Bet :)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024

    tlg86 said:

    BBC have a photo of a fan (unclear which side) carrying a hammer outside Liverpool game. I hope that isn’t what hit the guy who was downed when Roma fans attacked.

    I wasn't there, so can't really comment on what's gone on tonight. However, I would advise Liverpool fans travelling to Rome next week to keep as low a profile as possible.
    In 1984 Lazio fans offered to tool up the Scousers.
    A memory of Roma 1984 which DavidL might find interesting:

    ' En route to the ground, United’s bus was pelted with missiles, and once inside, McLean encountered “the worst atmosphere of any football match I have ever attended, and that includes any Rangers and Celtic game”. Among the banners included ones reading “GOD CURSE DUNDEE UNITED”, “McLEAN FUCK OFF” and “ROMA HATES McLEAN HE’S A CUNT”.

    Kick-off was cunningly scheduled for the afternoon, the scorching heat uncommon in Dundee at that time of year, and United weren’t at it: by half-time, the deficit had been wiped out before, on 58 minutes, Agostino Di Bartolomei scored the penalty which sent Roma through. Then, at full time, McLean was attacked by Roma players and officials, though the majority of punches were absorbed by John Gardiner, his reserve goalie, and Walter Smith, his famously tidy assistant. '

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/19/the-forgotten-story-of-dundee-united-glory-years-under-jim-mclean
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    Wonder if it was recorded?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    Do you really need to ask Dan?

    spineless muppets with no moral compass in the main - with obvious exceptions
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,132
    Evening all,

    Sounds like Corbyn's meeting was an absolute clusterf*** of epic proportions. What a surprise.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sean_F said:

    The leader of Germany's Jewish community has advised Jews to avoid wearing traditional skullcaps (kippahs) following anti-Semitic attacks.

    He's just weaponising allegations of anti-semitism to embarrass the Labour Party.
    I thought you were Roger for a moment there
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Evening all,

    Sounds like Corbyn's meeting was an absolute clusterf*** of epic proportions. What a surprise.

    Corbyn's team no doubt think it was a great success.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    edited April 2018
    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Evening all,

    Sounds like Corbyn's meeting was an absolute clusterf*** of epic proportions. What a surprise.

    Well seamus was involved so what do you expect.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:

    The leader of Germany's Jewish community has advised Jews to avoid wearing traditional skullcaps (kippahs) following anti-Semitic attacks.

    He's just weaponising allegations of anti-semitism to embarrass the Labour Party.
    I thought you were Roger for a moment there
    Roger would have told him to f*ck off.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
    Basically - you appear to be saying there is no interest to act - just do as little as possible to move the news cycle on.

    Nice
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
    Outside of three or four constituencies, none of this does any political harm to Labour.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
    Basically - you appear to be saying there is no interest to act - just do as little as possible to move the news cycle on.

    Nice
    But quite accurate.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Scott_P said:
    A new kinder gentler type of politics indeed

    Scream racist at the other lot and ignore a growing problem in your own ranks.

    Is that what it means to be a progressive?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Sean_F said:

    Floater said:

    Sean_F said:

    The leader of Germany's Jewish community has advised Jews to avoid wearing traditional skullcaps (kippahs) following anti-Semitic attacks.

    He's just weaponising allegations of anti-semitism to embarrass the Labour Party.
    I thought you were Roger for a moment there
    Roger would have told him to f*ck off.
    Well if JC report is to believed he wasn’t far off doing so...shrugging when presented with serious claims of antisemitism and dangers faced by Jews in the UK.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
    Basically - you appear to be saying there is no interest to act - just do as little as possible to move the news cycle on.

    Nice
    I do not say I want that to happen. It is what I think will happen. He may have acknowledged Labour has a problem, but plenty of his supporters don't, and plenty more think it all overdone even though there is a problem, so doing as little as possible and moving the news cycle on is precisely what I think will happen. It's happened before after all.

    I see nothing to be happy about in that, but it is how I think it will go.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Sean_F said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
    Basically - you appear to be saying there is no interest to act - just do as little as possible to move the news cycle on.

    Nice
    But quite accurate.
    But what a fucking awful indictment.

    Worrying too
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Claiming the Windrush debacle was all about race is starting to look a bit premature with reports like this (and this isn't the only one I've seen in the last few days):

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/24/canadian-woman-told-to-leave-uk-margaret-obrien
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
    Outside of three or four constituencies, none of this does any political harm to Labour.
    It might well boost Labour in more than a few areas.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018
    I bet if this was another minority group jezza wouldn’t have just sat there shrugging.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I bet if this was another minority group jezza wouldn’t have just sat their shrugging.

    Strange reaction for the militant fighter against anti - semitism.

    Oh - that was just another load of bollocks to try and move on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    edited April 2018
    I do like this quote:

    Mr Corbyn said he had had a "positive and constructive" meeting.

    because even if we accept purely for the sake of argument that the Jewish Leadership Council and Board of Deputies are being a little harsh in their analysis of the meeting, that they have made the statement they have, justified or not (again, purely for the sake of argument) indicates it cannot have been a positive and constructive meeting no matter what Corbyn thinks.

    Positive and constructive meetings don't end with that kind of statement.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43887223
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024
    edited April 2018
    Has anyone mentioned the TSB IT problems today ?

    I ask because the Guardian has been obsessed by it:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2018/apr/24/tsb-online-banking-troubles-uk-public-finances-business-live

    But an interesting blast from the past was discovering Zammo from Grange Hill now has a key cutting business in South London. He once met Nancy Reagan.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587
    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.



    Nice
    I do not say I want that to happen. It is what I think will happen. He may have acknowledged Labour has a problem, but plenty of his supporters don't, and plenty more think it all overdone even though there is a problem, so doing as little as possible and moving the news cycle on is precisely what I think will happen. It's happened before after all.

    I see nothing to be happy about in that, but it is how I think it will go.
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW:

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    .
    Basically - you appear to be saying there is no interest to act - just do as little as possible to move the news cycle on.

    Nice
    I do not say I want that to happen. It is what I think will happen. He may have acknowledged Labour has a problem, but plenty of his supporters don't, and plenty more think it all overdone even though there is a problem, so doing as little as possible and moving the news cycle on is precisely what I think will happen. It's happened before after all.

    I see nothing to be happy about in that, but it is how I think it will go.
    There was an unintentionally funny argument between Iain Dale and one Corbynista on LBC today.

    The latter insisted there was no anti-semitism in the Labour Party, because most semites were Arabs, and they weren't anti-Arab.

    But, they were anti-Zionist. The creation of the State of Israel was one of the worst ever crimes against humanity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018
    Floater said:

    I bet if this was another minority group jezza wouldn’t have just sat their shrugging.

    Strange reaction for the militant fighter against anti - semitism.

    Oh - that was just another load of bollocks to try and move on.
    I genuinely think he just doesn’t think there is really a problem stemming from seeing the Jews as not a poor underrepresented minority with no voice and of course he is no fan of Israel’s approach to dealing with their neighbours.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    I assume Corbyn is pretty much in the clear from hereon out. Like the last time this row peaked, strong words were said (even the statement agrees that) and that satisfied enough of his own people and others will argue what concrete action is needed and is proportionate, muddying things, and then the media cycle will move on (it helps that they have a genuine stick to beat the government with to help move the cycle on).
    Outside of three or four constituencies, none of this does any political harm to Labour.
    It might well boost Labour in more than a few areas.
    That is possibly true.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2018
    kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    One of the problems is that care workers are badly paid but care home fees are mysteriously very high despite this.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024
    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    Some of that ringfenced NHS money would be more effectively spent on social care.

    But if any govenment did that there would be a deafening claims of cuts to the NHS.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    " How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this."

    Well Mr Hodges, the answer is about two years and counting.
  • kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    This happened to my son in law's mother who collapsed and was taken to A & E to be diagnosed with heart block and had an emergency op to fit a pacemaker. A couple of days later she was fine to go home but stayed several more days blocking the bed waiting for a social care package
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018
    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988864856018358275

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988889813704159233

    Given everything ken has said has been on the record it could be done in a week.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,132
    Scott_P said:
    Expedited?

    They are having a laugh aren't they? Two years iirc it is now.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,482
    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    One of the problems is that care workers are badly paid but care home fees are mysteriously very high despite this.
    Yet most of the Social Care sector is teetering on the brink of financial collapse and bankrupcy:

    https://www.ft.com/content/e6c08ebe-0d47-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,587

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988864856018358275

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988889813704159233

    Given everything ken has said has been on the record it could be done in a week.
    The only cause for delay I'd have thought would be him making more and more statements, which then get added to the pile.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,132
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988864856018358275

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988889813704159233

    Given everything ken has said has been on the record it could be done in a week.
    The only cause for delay I'd have thought would be him making more and more statements, which then get added to the pile.
    Maybe they have got a team of German modern history experts poring over every single document that Hitler signed, just in case there is one that shows Ken was right?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024
    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    One of the problems is that care workers are badly paid but care home fees are mysteriously very high despite this.
    Yet most of the Social Care sector is teetering on the brink of financial collapse and bankrupcy:

    https://www.ft.com/content/e6c08ebe-0d47-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

    So what should be done ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,132

    kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    This happened to my son in law's mother who collapsed and was taken to A & E to be diagnosed with heart block and had an emergency op to fit a pacemaker. A couple of days later she was fine to go home but stayed several more days blocking the bed waiting for a social care package
    I think Hunt will announce something blockbusting on all this before he bows out of Health. The public spending news may help his case.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    FPT

    I think the predominant U.K. public mindset is not so much imperial as hegemonic; we are the centre of the world and what we think matters.

    Only this can explain the absurdity of hundreds of MPs sounding off about the launch of 8 missiles, carried by 4 aircraft, which are going out of service next year.

    I think victory in the Falklands conflict is a big factor in its persistence. If we had lost, with thousands of casualities and the loss of dozens of ships, it would have been our Algeria.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,537

    kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    This happened to my son in law's mother who collapsed and was taken to A & E to be diagnosed with heart block and had an emergency op to fit a pacemaker. A couple of days later she was fine to go home but stayed several more days blocking the bed waiting for a social care package
    Foxy said:

    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    One of the problems is that care workers are badly paid but care home fees are mysteriously very high despite this.
    Yet most of the Social Care sector is teetering on the brink of financial collapse and bankrupcy:

    https://www.ft.com/content/e6c08ebe-0d47-11e7-a88c-50ba212dce4d

    Can you paste the title of that FT article Foxy? That way I can search and see it (otherwise it's behind a paywall)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,132
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW: Labour's Andrew Gwynne suggests Jewish leaders are wrong to claim Corbyn ignored requests for concrete action. "That's not my understanding of what was agreed," he says. "I'm not sure how they've interpreted the meeting."

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.



    Nice
    I do not say I want that to happen. It is what I think will happen. He may have acknowledged Labour has a problem, but plenty of his supporters don't, and plenty more think it all overdone even though there is a problem, so doing as little as possible and moving the news cycle on is precisely what I think will happen. It's happened before after all.

    I see nothing to be happy about in that, but it is how I think it will go.
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    Aubrey Allegretti - @breeallegretti: NEW:

    (((Dan Hodges))) - @DPJHodges: So we’ve now reached the point where Labour front-benchers are accusing the leaders of the Jewish community of lying about their meeting with Corbyn. How much longer are decent Labour MPs and members going to put up with this.

    .
    Basically - you appear to be saying there is no interest to act - just do as little as possible to move the news cycle on.

    Nice
    I do not say I want that to happen. It is what I think will happen. He may have acknowledged Labour has a problem, but plenty of his supporters don't, and plenty more think it all overdone even though there is a problem, so doing as little as possible and moving the news cycle on is precisely what I think will happen. It's happened before after all.

    I see nothing to be happy about in that, but it is how I think it will go.
    There was an unintentionally funny argument between Iain Dale and one Corbynista on LBC today.

    The latter insisted there was no anti-semitism in the Labour Party, because most semites were Arabs, and they weren't anti-Arab.

    But, they were anti-Zionist. The creation of the State of Israel was one of the worst ever crimes against humanity.
    Sounds a bit like the kind of logic that led to Stalin 1930s show trials to be bloody frank.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,181

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988864856018358275

    twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/988889813704159233

    Given everything ken has said has been on the record it could be done in a week.
    The only cause for delay I'd have thought would be him making more and more statements, which then get added to the pile.
    Maybe they have got a team of German modern history experts poring over every single document that Hitler signed, just in case there is one that shows Ken was right?
    Plus psychologists to determine when exactly Hitler went a bit mad.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,024
    edited April 2018
    RoyalBlue said:

    FPT

    I think the predominant U.K. public mindset is not so much imperial as hegemonic; we are the centre of the world and what we think matters.

    Only this can explain the absurdity of hundreds of MPs sounding off about the launch of 8 missiles, carried by 4 aircraft, which are going out of service next year.

    I think victory in the Falklands conflict is a big factor in its persistence. If we had lost, with thousands of casualities and the loss of dozens of ships, it would have been our Algeria.

    Losing in Algeria and Vietnam hasn't stopped France meddling in various countries.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,482

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    Some of that ringfenced NHS money would be more effectively spent on social care.

    But if any govenment did that there would be a deafening claims of cuts to the NHS.
    That is being done already, STP are that way of transferring funds to Councils for Social care.
  • kle4 said:

    Elliot said:

    I was speaking to a nurse earlier today and she told me by far the biggest wasted cost in the NHS is old people staying in hospital beds because, even though they are good to go home, there are no carers or care home.places available.

    We badly need a better funded social care system. The costs are all showing up in the NHS.

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    This happened to my son in law's mother who collapsed and was taken to A & E to be diagnosed with heart block and had an emergency op to fit a pacemaker. A couple of days later she was fine to go home but stayed several more days blocking the bed waiting for a social care package
    I think Hunt will announce something blockbusting on all this before he bows out of Health. The public spending news may help his case.
    I am sure he will but we are in Labour's Wales who have failed in health and education comprehensively
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,785



    But an interesting blast from the past was discovering Zammo from Grange Hill now has a key cutting business in South London. He once met Nancy Reagan.

    Fascinating...
This discussion has been closed.