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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After all the wait the YouGov London local poll has just margi

SystemSystem Posts: 11,007
edited April 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After all the wait the YouGov London local poll has just margin of error changes

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  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    First like Labour in London.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,919
    Second. Others Greens rather than Kippers in 2014, I suspect.
  • Options
    CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    I see the BBC are bleating about the idea of illegal immigrants being deported.

    Am I missing something? What is wrong with removing people who are here illegally exactly? It's mental.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    edited April 2018
    #LabourGainLondon

    #Kaboom
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I cannot see Labour winning in Westminster.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    So as I expected little net change but could be enough for the Tories to save the furniture in London rather than facing a wipeout
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    edited April 2018

    I see the BBC are bleating about the idea of illegal immigrants being deported.

    Am I missing something? What is wrong with removing people who are here illegally exactly? It's mental.

    It's being suggested that having the targets encouraged Home Office officials to be unfair when considering the merits of claims by possibly legal immigrants - like Windrushers. Perhaps if they weren't being pushed to deport a certain number of people they wouldn't have deported a bunch of British citizens, is the argument.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    Think this election will be Theresa's nadir.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Ben Walker
    @spreadsheetben
    2m2 minutes ago

    Contact rates in London by...

    Party / Inner LDN / Outer LDN:

    Con: 17 / 27
    Lab: 38 / 31
    LDem: 15 / 12
    Grn: 5 / 4

    (YouGov/Mile End Institute poll)

    https://twitter.com/spreadsheetben/status/989456377792942085
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    Second. Others Greens rather than Kippers in 2014, I suspect.

    The 2014 figures above are total votes. For others, who frequently put up less than a full state of candidates or more subject to vote sharing (as if it were a second preference!) the difference is quite big. On a highest vote basis others got 26% last time, and even on Today's polling every type of other loses out substantially
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,703
    GIN1138 said:

    Think this election will be Theresa's nadir.
    Still going down from 2017 GE?
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Ben Walker
    @spreadsheetben
    13m13 minutes ago

    Ben Walker Retweeted Britain Elects

    Inner London subsample (containing Wandsworth/Westminster) has gone from Lab 67 Con 17 (Feb) to Lab 58 Con 25 (Apr). Hm.

    https://twitter.com/spreadsheetben/status/989454560560369664
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll. Compared to London as a whole, Barnet now has a huge Conservative lean.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,793
    edited April 2018

    GIN1138 said:

    Think this election will be Theresa's nadir.
    Still going down from 2017 GE?
    In London yes. Tories are going to get an absolute hammering.

    Rest of the country will be more "mixed" of course.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914

    Ben Walker
    @spreadsheetben
    13m13 minutes ago

    Ben Walker Retweeted Britain Elects

    Inner London subsample (containing Wandsworth/Westminster) has gone from Lab 67 Con 17 (Feb) to Lab 58 Con 25 (Apr). Hm.

    https://twitter.com/spreadsheetben/status/989454560560369664

    This fall coincides with concerted Momentum canvassing in both Westminster and Wandsworth.

  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    The regional breakdown shows that in London houses are even more out of reach for most people with the average price relative to average earnings stretching to 13.24, up from 12.91 in 2016.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,903
    Pulpstar said:

    This micro-analysis is all very well, but outside the scope of the potential accuracy of modern day polling in my opinion. Either Westminter and Wandsworth always were going to go red, or always were going to stay blue. I doubt there has been such a swing in inner London since February, more the polls tracking the VI aren't perfect judges of the actual situation on the ground.
    The inner London swing will probably be somewhere between 6.5 and 13% but could still be more or less.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    GIN1138 said:

    Think this election will be Theresa's nadir.
    Still going down from 2017 GE?
    Outside of London the Tories may well make gains compared to 2014 and even be up on GE 2017
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Ben Walker
    @spreadsheetben
    13m13 minutes ago

    Ben Walker Retweeted Britain Elects

    Inner London subsample (containing Wandsworth/Westminster) has gone from Lab 67 Con 17 (Feb) to Lab 58 Con 25 (Apr). Hm.

    https://twitter.com/spreadsheetben/status/989454560560369664

    This fall coincides with concerted Momentum canvassing in both Westminster and Wandsworth.

    Nothing to do with the wreckers and saboteurs. :smirk:
  • Options
    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    I cannot see Labour winning in Westminster.

    No, neither can I. But I can see them gaining Kensington.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited April 2018
    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The Jewish vote is key in Barnet, it has the highest Jewish population in the UK
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Pic. Image and video hosting by TinyPic
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    A 7% swing in Wandsworth would result in Con 34, Lab 26, so close, but no cigar.
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The Jewish vote is key in Barnet, it has the highest Jewish population in the UK
    Roughly 3-4% of Barnet are Jewish Labour voters, and they are concentrated in safe Tory wards. Their impact is being wildly overstated.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,020
    Will Diane Abbott be the first Shadow Home Secretary to claim a cabinet scalp since 2009?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    A 7% swing in Westminster gives a result of Con 42, Lab 18, despite Labour finishing ahead in votes.

    Labour's problem in Westminster, Kensington, and Wandsworth, is that their support is concentrated in relatively few wards.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Ben Walker
    @spreadsheetben
    13m13 minutes ago

    Ben Walker Retweeted Britain Elects

    Inner London subsample (containing Wandsworth/Westminster) has gone from Lab 67 Con 17 (Feb) to Lab 58 Con 25 (Apr). Hm.

    https://twitter.com/spreadsheetben/status/989454560560369664

    This fall coincides with concerted Momentum canvassing in both Westminster and Wandsworth.

    An army of Owen Jones devotees hasn't actually persuaded anyone? In fact, the reverse? I am shocked.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Election Data
    @election_data
    6m6 minutes ago

    Polling in London at this point in 2014 :
    LAB 44 (now 51)
    CON 31 (now 29)
    LD 11 (now 11)
    UKIP 10
    GRN 2

    Results in London in 2014 were:
    LAB 37.4
    CON 26.1
    LD 10.2
    UKIP 10.0
    GRN 9.6

    https://twitter.com/election_data/status/989460354097958912
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    nunuone said:
    I think Corbyn will definitely help draw in those Green votes that Labour may have lost vs the 2014 poll.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited April 2018
    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The Jewish vote is key in Barnet, it has the highest Jewish population in the UK
    Roughly 3-4% of Barnet are Jewish Labour voters, and they are concentrated in safe Tory wards. Their impact is being wildly overstated.
    Given the borough is currently Tory and the Tories narrowly won most wards in Barnet at GE2017 if Labour lose any of their existing Jewish voters it could be fatal for them given they have to make net gains from the Tories to win the borough
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Sean_F said:

    A 7% swing in Westminster gives a result of Con 42, Lab 18, despite Labour finishing ahead in votes.

    Labour's problem in Westminster, Kensington, and Wandsworth, is that their support is concentrated in relatively few wards.

    Yes.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Owen Jones has a point, but it's certainly not a bad poll for Labour. Labour could expect big seat gains from the Conservatives in Redbridge, Enfield, Croydon, Ealing, and Merton on these numbers. However, they could not expect to pick up many additional boroughs.
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
    The Tories led by 2% in a general election vote in Barnet last year. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

    Tory lead in 2014 Locals: 2%
    Tory lead in 2015 General: 11%
    Tory lead in 2017 General: 2%
    Tory lead in 2018 Locals: ???

    I'm not saying it is certain, but unless the dynamics of local elections have changed significantly in Barnet in the last 5 years (and given Labour remain in opposition and the Tories remain in power, I don't see why they would) the Tory position last year is in line with a Labour majority in Barnet this year.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576

    Will Diane Abbott be the first Shadow Home Secretary to claim a cabinet scalp since 2009?

    She's not best placed to claim people who don't know the facts should resign....
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    edited April 2018
    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
    The Tories led by 2% in a general election vote in Barnet last year. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

    Tory lead in 2014 Locals: 2%
    Tory lead in 2015 General: 11%
    Tory lead in 2017 General: 2%
    Tory lead in 2018 Locals: ???

    I'm not saying it is certain, but unless the dynamics of local elections have changed significantly in Barnet in the last 5 years (and given Labour remain in opposition and the Tories remain in power, I don't see why they would) the Tory position last year is in line with a Labour majority in Barnet this year.
    Labour led most national polls before the 2014 Locals, that is not the case now
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Will Diane Abbott be the first Shadow Home Secretary to claim a cabinet scalp since 2009?

    if they had wanted a scalp they wouldn't have sent Abbott to the box.

    Seamus must suspect keeping Rudd in place is a better move.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940
    Sean_F said:

    Owen Jones has a point, but it's certainly not a bad poll for Labour. Labour could expect big seat gains from the Conservatives in Redbridge, Enfield, Croydon, Ealing, and Merton on these numbers. However, they could not expect to pick up many additional boroughs.
    Hence even if the Tories lose all their councillors in Ealing and almost all of them in Enfield and Redbridge the media focus on Wandsworth and Westminster means if they cling on there ministers can do a Kenneth Baker 1990 on election night and say they held the crown jewels
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited April 2018
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,580
    Meanwhile, the rest of the country does not frot itself into a frenzy over a London-only poll.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Poll suggests not even many London voters give a toss about Windrush.

  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Will Diane Abbott be the first Shadow Home Secretary to claim a cabinet scalp since 2009?

    She's not best placed to claim people who don't know the facts should resign....
    Donald Trump got away with calling Hillary Clinton crooked.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,919

    Will Diane Abbott be the first Shadow Home Secretary to claim a cabinet scalp since 2009?

    She's not best placed to claim people who don't know the facts should resign....
    Do as I say, not do as I do, eh!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Is George on holiday?

    Surely the headlines should be:

    May trails Labour by 22 points in London

    But exclusive poll shows Tories could cling on in Wandsworth and Westminster
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Owen Jones has a point, but it's certainly not a bad poll for Labour. Labour could expect big seat gains from the Conservatives in Redbridge, Enfield, Croydon, Ealing, and Merton on these numbers. However, they could not expect to pick up many additional boroughs.
    Hence even if the Tories lose all their councillors in Ealing and almost all of them in Enfield and Redbridge the media focus on Wandsworth and Westminster means if they cling on there ministers can do a Kenneth Baker 1990 on election night and say they held the crown jewels
    ....and six months later.
  • Options
    old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Is George on holiday?

    Surely the headlines should be:

    May trails Labour by 22 points in London

    But exclusive poll shows Tories could cling on in Wandsworth and Westminster
    :lol:
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,940

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Owen Jones has a point, but it's certainly not a bad poll for Labour. Labour could expect big seat gains from the Conservatives in Redbridge, Enfield, Croydon, Ealing, and Merton on these numbers. However, they could not expect to pick up many additional boroughs.
    Hence even if the Tories lose all their councillors in Ealing and almost all of them in Enfield and Redbridge the media focus on Wandsworth and Westminster means if they cling on there ministers can do a Kenneth Baker 1990 on election night and say they held the crown jewels
    ....and six months later.
    Thatcher did go but 2 years later the Tories won a historic 4th consecutive general election victory, when most expected Kinnock would win on his second attempt
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    edited April 2018
    Voting intention for Westiminster elections shows a swing of 0.5% to Labour since last year, in line with national voting intention.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
    The Tories led by 2% in a general election vote in Barnet last year. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

    Tory lead in 2014 Locals: 2%
    Tory lead in 2015 General: 11%
    Tory lead in 2017 General: 2%
    Tory lead in 2018 Locals: ???

    I'm not saying it is certain, but unless the dynamics of local elections have changed significantly in Barnet in the last 5 years (and given Labour remain in opposition and the Tories remain in power, I don't see why they would) the Tory position last year is in line with a Labour majority in Barnet this year.
    I think there is reason to believe that the Conservative vote is more solid in Barnet than in other boroughs.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Owen Jones has a point, but it's certainly not a bad poll for Labour. Labour could expect big seat gains from the Conservatives in Redbridge, Enfield, Croydon, Ealing, and Merton on these numbers. However, they could not expect to pick up many additional boroughs.
    Hence even if the Tories lose all their councillors in Ealing and almost all of them in Enfield and Redbridge the media focus on Wandsworth and Westminster means if they cling on there ministers can do a Kenneth Baker 1990 on election night and say they held the crown jewels
    The Conservative position in both Enfield and Redbridge has collapsed, notwithstanding that both boroughs were close to 50/50 in the Brexit Referendum. I know that levels of owner occupation have plummeted in Enfield North, and suspect that is true elsewhere.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Quincel said:

    I see the BBC are bleating about the idea of illegal immigrants being deported.

    Am I missing something? What is wrong with removing people who are here illegally exactly? It's mental.

    It's being suggested that having the targets encouraged Home Office officials to be unfair when considering the merits of claims by possibly legal immigrants - like Windrushers. Perhaps if they weren't being pushed to deport a certain number of people they wouldn't have deported a bunch of British citizens, is the argument.
    I think there was a backlog of illegal immigrants who had not been deported that the Home Office was being asked to deal with. The problem was that some Windrush category were wrongly classified as illegal rather than the backlog of illegals finally being deported.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    As a Lib Dem ?
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    Danny Alexander?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Looks as if Europe's titan of banking is going to give up on investing. Doesn't bode well for when Europe tries to go it alone after 2020.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited April 2018
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    As a Lib Dem ?
    Heidi, not Danny...

    (Obviously I would still expect Khan to contest - and win)
  • Options
    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    yes, labour only have a 2% lead among white voters in London. Tory problems in London is long term because of demographic change.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    As a Lib Dem ?
    Heidi, not Danny...

    (Obviously I would still expect Khan to contest - and win)
    Nah - the Blairites are deserting the field of battle .
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2018

    This'll cheer us up.....

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/989419323495153664

    Trying telling kids about dial-up internet, or even the dark days before the internet and mobile phones (when as a student you had to take your 10p's to the pay phone).....the puzzled look on their little faces is a joy to behold.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Will Diane Abbott be the first Shadow Home Secretary to claim a cabinet scalp since 2009?

    She's not best placed to claim people who don't know the facts should resign....
    Donald Trump got away with calling Hillary Clinton crooked.

    And Bill Clinton got away with quite a lot with Hillary Clinton too.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Owen Jones has a point, but it's certainly not a bad poll for Labour. Labour could expect big seat gains from the Conservatives in Redbridge, Enfield, Croydon, Ealing, and Merton on these numbers. However, they could not expect to pick up many additional boroughs.
    Hence even if the Tories lose all their councillors in Ealing and almost all of them in Enfield and Redbridge the media focus on Wandsworth and Westminster means if they cling on there ministers can do a Kenneth Baker 1990 on election night and say they held the crown jewels
    ....and six months later.
    Thatcher did go but 2 years later the Tories won a historic 4th consecutive general election victory, when most expected Kinnock would win on his second attempt
    1990 was a good year for the Conservatives in London. They gained Hillingdon and Ealing, and minority control in Brent. But, it was a terrible year everywhere else.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,580
    That's not even a proper 5 1/4" floppy - its one of those new-fangled 3 1/2" stiffies.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,580
    nunuone said:

    yes, labour only have a 2% lead among white voters in London. Tory problems in London is long term because of demographic change.
    Amber Rudd has a solution...
  • Options
    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    edited April 2018

    This'll cheer us up.....

    twitter.com/YouGov/status/989419323495153664

    Trying telling kids about dial-up internet, or even the dark days before the internet and mobile phones (when as a student you had to take your 10p's to the pay phone).....the puzzled look on their little faces is a joy to behold.
    10p?

    I can remember when you could make a call for 2p!

    EDIT: or, failing that, you could ask the operator to reverse the charges, if you were prepared to face the storm of parental wrath that would greet you when the call was connected...
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    As a Lib Dem ?
    Heidi, not Danny...

    (Obviously I would still expect Khan to contest - and win)
    Nah - the Blairites are deserting the field of battle .
    You don't expect Khan to stand or you don't expect Heidi to replace him?

    Not sure I'd class her as a Blairite? She is "neutral but not hostile"!
  • Options
    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
    The Tories led by 2% in a general election vote in Barnet last year. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

    Tory lead in 2014 Locals: 2%
    Tory lead in 2015 General: 11%
    Tory lead in 2017 General: 2%
    Tory lead in 2018 Locals: ???

    I'm not saying it is certain, but unless the dynamics of local elections have changed significantly in Barnet in the last 5 years (and given Labour remain in opposition and the Tories remain in power, I don't see why they would) the Tory position last year is in line with a Labour majority in Barnet this year.
    Labour led most national polls before the 2014 Locals, that is not the case now
    As we now know, polls in the leadup to 2015 were overstating Labour significantly. Labour are now polling neck and neck, they were in reality not doing that well in 2014.

    2010 Locals (Barnet): 11% Tory lead
    2010 General (Barnet): 14% Tory lead

    Obviously we can't be certain, since polls can be wrong and voter behaviours change over time. But every poll and election available suggests Barnet voters are more Labour-leaning in locals than generals - and that the current position should be enough for Labour to take the borough. I'm not saying they should be 1/10, but they aren't even 1/2 now! When polling and previous elections point to a Labour gain they should be solid favourites.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    Danny Alexander?
    Alexander the Great?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    That's not even a proper 5 1/4" floppy - its one of those new-fangled 3 1/2" stiffies.
    you mean the 3D save icon?

    Even in my twenties I felt old when an 18-year-old colleague describe as VHS as "what, one of those thick DVDs". My copy of the Lion King is a prized possession.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    That's not even a proper 5 1/4" floppy - its one of those new-fangled 3 1/2" stiffies.
    Give me a hard disc any day.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    Danny Alexander?
    Alexander's been backed as the royal baby name. Is there a minimum age? Mind you if they drag this out much longer the royal sprog will have started school before they give him a name. What's the hold up?
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,244
    Peter Lilley just told a conference that negotiating an FTA with the EU will be easy and that the EU wants to negotiate a deal that is “the worst one for the UK that the UK will accept.”

    He said the two levers/aces up their sleeves are the budget contributions for the UK and NI for the EU.

    He said that the reaching of an FTA between the EU and the UK was less likely than people think but that one likely will be reached which will be good for goods, less good for services and least good for financial services.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387

    TGOHF said:

    Lewisham East bye election anyone ?

    A terribly boring question.

    The more interesting question: Alexander for Mayor 2020? Or 2024?
    Danny Alexander?
    Alexander's been backed as the royal baby name. Is there a minimum age? Mind you if they drag this out much longer the royal sprog will have started school before they give him a name. What's the hold up?
    OK guys how about I prepare the placards and we can decide later who we are actually going to nominate
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited April 2018
    Deleted. Beaten to the punchline.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Can we now all get back to talking about more important things such as the all out election following boundary changes at South Lakes District Council?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
    The Tories led by 2% in a general election vote in Barnet last year. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

    Tory lead in 2014 Locals: 2%
    Tory lead in 2015 General: 11%
    Tory lead in 2017 General: 2%
    Tory lead in 2018 Locals: ???

    I'm not saying it is certain, but unless the dynamics of local elections have changed significantly in Barnet in the last 5 years (and given Labour remain in opposition and the Tories remain in power, I don't see why they would) the Tory position last year is in line with a Labour majority in Barnet this year.
    Labour led most national polls before the 2014 Locals, that is not the case now
    As we now know, polls in the leadup to 2015 were overstating Labour significantly. Labour are now polling neck and neck, they were in reality not doing that well in 2014.

    2010 Locals (Barnet): 11% Tory lead
    2010 General (Barnet): 14% Tory lead

    Obviously we can't be certain, since polls can be wrong and voter behaviours change over time. But every poll and election available suggests Barnet voters are more Labour-leaning in locals than generals - and that the current position should be enough for Labour to take the borough. I'm not saying they should be 1/10, but they aren't even 1/2 now! When polling and previous elections point to a Labour gain they should be solid favourites.
    The swing in Outer London on these numbers, since 2014, is 3%, which would give Labour a small majority in Barnet, if repeated there. But, I'm expecting the swing to Labour to be much greater than 3% in some Outer London boroughs, like Enfield and Redbridge, but far less in others, like Barnet.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    edited April 2018
    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
    The Tories led by 2% in a general election vote in Barnet last year. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

    Tory lead in 2014 Locals: 2%
    Tory lead in 2015 General: 11%
    Tory lead in 2017 General: 2%
    Tory lead in 2018 Locals: ???

    I'm not saying it is certain, but unless the dynamics of local elections have changed significantly in Barnet in the last 5 years (and given Labour remain in opposition and the Tories remain in power, I don't see why they would) the Tory position last year is in line with a Labour majority in Barnet this year.
    Labour led most national polls before the 2014 Locals, that is not the case now
    As we now know, polls in the leadup to 2015 were overstating Labour significantly. Labour are now polling neck and neck, they were in reality not doing that well in 2014.

    2010 Locals (Barnet): 11% Tory lead
    2010 General (Barnet): 14% Tory lead

    Obviously we can't be certain, since polls can be wrong and voter behaviours change over time. But every poll and election available suggests Barnet voters are more Labour-leaning in locals than generals - and that the current position should be enough for Labour to take the borough. I'm not saying they should be 1/10, but they aren't even 1/2 now! When polling and previous elections point to a Labour gain they should be solid favourites.
    The swing in Outer London on these numbers, since 2014, is 3%, which would give Labour a small majority in Barnet, if repeated there. But, I'm expecting the swing to Labour to be much greater than 3% in some Outer London boroughs, like Enfield and Redbridge, but far less in others, like Barnet.
    Why? Genuinely curious, I have no particular reason to believe it will be uniform. My only personal assumption to deviate from the polls is that Labour have become much more popular in London since 2015 compared to the country nationally, though this is basically baked into my assumption on how much Labour are likely to outperform their GE figures.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    I like the technical description for the change in UKIP's polling:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/989455371189223424
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905
    edited April 2018

    Mr. Pulpstar, well, yes. It's a benefit, just not a state benefit.

    Mr. rkrkrk, right. So if a man is hiring someone to do work X, he can pick between a self-employed person charging more, or an employed person charging less, for the same work. That doesn't harm the self-employed at all, does it?

    As for the IFS, they're overrated. They criticised an early Osborne budget for not being progressive because it would reduce spending on benefits. The reduction was due to happen because of falling unemployment, decreasing the sum spent on unemployment benefit.

    FPT: I agree that we shouldn't regard the IFS as gospel - in particular they aren't particularly specialised in macroeconomics.

    But on this they are right. Your example doesn't make sense.

    When I hire a company - I am paying for all of those benefits like holiday and sick leave.
    When I hire a self-employed person I pay a rate which effectively includes any holiday or sick leave the self-employed person takes.
    But at the moment - the self-employed person will appear artificially cheaper because the employer gets stung with more national insurance.

    This change would have hurt the self-employed certainly. But only by reducing the significant tax advantage that they currently receive. And perhaps more significantly - it would reduce the incentive for the pretend self-employed who do this for tax reasons.
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    notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    That's not even a proper 5 1/4" floppy - its one of those new-fangled 3 1/2" stiffies.
    I do sometimes wonder what youngsters think when they see what is really a universal save icon on most things, but theyve probably never even seen one in real life. Its maybe the equivalent of using the symbol of an old car crank for starting the ignition in a modern car.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    I like the technical description for the change in UKIP's polling:

    https://twitter.com/JoeMurphyLondon/status/989455371189223424


    Does the poll adjust for likely turnout though?
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    That's not even a proper 5 1/4" floppy - its one of those new-fangled 3 1/2" stiffies.
    Sorry to hear your stiffies are only 3 1/2”
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,372

    That's not even a proper 5 1/4" floppy - its one of those new-fangled 3 1/2" stiffies.
    Give me a hard disc any day.
    Expensive, though...

    (I think the first IBM PC with a hard drive, the PC XT, cost around $5000 versus $1500 for the essentially identical model without...)
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,821
    Tory candidate suspended over 'sweating like a Jew in an attic’ tweet

    Presumably the BOD will be organising an Anti Tory rally immediately
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095

    That's not even a proper 5 1/4" floppy - its one of those new-fangled 3 1/2" stiffies.
    RIP Ceefax - not even a memory....
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. rkrkrk, so the 'pretend' self-employed jump ship and become employed. And actual, as it were, self-employed people are left worse off. I don't think that's right or fair.
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    CopperSulphateCopperSulphate Posts: 1,119
    Quincel said:

    I see the BBC are bleating about the idea of illegal immigrants being deported.

    Am I missing something? What is wrong with removing people who are here illegally exactly? It's mental.

    It's being suggested that having the targets encouraged Home Office officials to be unfair when considering the merits of claims by possibly legal immigrants - like Windrushers. Perhaps if they weren't being pushed to deport a certain number of people they wouldn't have deported a bunch of British citizens, is the argument.
    Targets mean something isn't done properly?

    If that's been argued successfully then all government targets should be abolished immediately. If not then the complaint is nonsense.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,799
    edited April 2018
    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Quincel said:

    Sean_F said:

    Quincel said:

    FPT:

    So a minor tick down for Labour. 22% lead compared to the 13% lead they had in 2014.

    I'll say it again: Why are Labour's odds slipping in Barnet? If they hit 20%+ lead across the capital they are very likely indeed to take the two seats they need there.

    The answer is this. The Conservatives led by 2% in Barnet last year, when Labour led by 22% across London. Labour now lead by 22% in this poll.
    The Tories led by 2% in a general election vote in Barnet last year. That's an apples and oranges comparison.

    Tory lead in 2014 Locals: 2%
    Tory lead in 2015 General: 11%
    Tory lead in 2017 General: 2%
    Tory lead in 2018 Locals: ???

    I'm not saying it is certain, but unless the dynamics of local elections have changed significantly in Barnet in the last 5 years (and given Labour remain in opposition and the Tories remain in power, I don't see why they would) the Tory position last year is in line with a Labour majority in Barnet this year.
    Labour led most national polls before the 2014 Locals, that is not the case now
    As we now know, polls in the leadup to 2015 were overstating Labour significantly. Labour are now polling neck and neck, they were in reality not doing that well in 2014.

    2010 Locals (Barnet): 11% Tory lead
    2010 General (Barnet): 14% Tory lead

    Obviously we can't be certain, since polls can be wrong and voter behaviours change over time. But every poll and election available suggests Barnet voters are more Labour-leaning in locals than generals - and that the current position should be enough for Labour to take the borough. I'm not saying they should be 1/10, but they aren't even 1/2 now! When polling and previous elections point to a Labour gain they should be solid favourites.
    The swing in Outer London on these numbers, since 2014, is 3%, which would give Labour a small majority in Barnet, if repeated there. But, I'm expecting the swing to Labour to be much greater than 3% in some Outer London boroughs, like Enfield and Redbridge, but far less in others, like Barnet.
    Why? Genuinely curious, I have no particular reason to believe it will be uniform. My only personal assumption to deviate from the polls is that Labour have become much more popular in London since 2015 compared to the country nationally, though this is basically baked into my assumption on how much Labour are likely to outperform their GE figures.
    I'm basing my assumption on the fact that Enfield and Redbridge have shown huge swings to Labour since 2010, which have not been matched in Barnet or Harrow East (a seat which is similar to Hendon).
This discussion has been closed.