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  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910
    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    Slightly late to the party here but just wanted to commend Alastair on an excellent header. Unfortunately, too many on both sides seem to regard reaching an workable agreement as a pleasant bonus, should the process so conclude - while they prioritise their primary goal of playing to their own audiences. Negotiation requires understanding the other side. The EU has never understood, nor sought to understand, the Brexit mindset but simply assumed them to be endemically hostile and adopted a similarly hostile attitude in consequence (it has to be said that many brexiteers have not helped themselves in that respect).

    The EU's negotiating stance has been based on a deep understanding of the Brexit mindset, and a determination that it must not be appeased any longer.
    "Appeased". So are we allowed to vote ourselves out in any circumstance at all, in your view?
    William's oft stated position is that democracy is overrated and nation states should be dissolved. I suppose the one positive is that he is consistent.
    It's most frequently stated in your posts telling me what my position is...
    But what's the answer to my question?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    The EU having settled the UK's exit bill and citizens rights of EU citizens clearly now wants the UK to stay in as close an arrangement to the customs union as possible before any FTA is agreed
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I’m a BTL property owner, by “fate” as much as anything else.

    I don’t think there’s enough of us to achieve what I’m actually suggesting, which is long-term suppression of house prices and a subtle tilt away from taxing income toward wealth.
    900,000 landlords who own 5.5m residential properties.
    If I understand correctly, you have better access to figures than me. Would 3% on BTLs generate the same as 1% on all property?

    The other challenge is we don’t want to overly damage the rental market. It’s still too primitive in this country. We want to keep a healthy sector of, say, 20% of tenures.
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    You can be as good a performer as you like, but if your FS is Boris and he's writing critical articles in the Daily Mail - it's going to be pretty tough.

    The topic of customs union is far too dry anyway for any pithy videos to come out of this exchange.
  • Options
    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    edited May 2018
    Corbyn did really well today.On the question of a customs union,May's government is check-mated by the opposition and on the question of not having a customs union check-mated by her own party.In other words,the Tories are in a hole and to misquote Dennis Healey,they need to keep digging,the only question being how big does the hole have to be to bury all the bodies of deceased political careers?
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603
    MaxPB said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
    The Empire Strikes Back......
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    edited May 2018
    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Slightly late to the party here but just wanted to commend Alastair on an excellent header. Unfortunately, too many on both sides seem to regard reaching an workable agreement as a pleasant bonus, should the process so conclude - while they prioritise their primary goal of playing to their own audiences. Negotiation requires understanding the other side. The EU has never understood, nor sought to understand, the Brexit mindset but simply assumed them to be endemically hostile and adopted a similarly hostile attitude in consequence (it has to be said that many brexiteers have not helped themselves in that respect).

    The EU's negotiating stance has been based on a deep understanding of the Brexit mindset, and a determination that it must not be appeased any longer.
    "Appeased". So are we allowed to vote ourselves out in any circumstance at all, in your view?
    William's oft stated position is that democracy is overrated and nation states should be dissolved. I suppose the one positive is that he is consistent.
    It's most frequently stated in your posts telling me what my position is...
    But what's the answer to my question?
    It deserves a longer answer but yes I do think it's possible to imagine circumstances in which it would be the right thing to leave. But essentially I think that for as long as there is an EU it will be in our interests to be inside it rather than outside it in almost all conceivable circumstances.

    At the time of Brexit a lot of people thought the EU was on its last legs, was no longer relevant to the modern world, and we'd be rapidly followed by other member states. Had that been true it might have been the right decision at the right time, but it wasn't.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258
    TM seems to be very distracted today
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    edited May 2018

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I’m a BTL property owner, by “fate” as much as anything else.

    I don’t think there’s enough of us to achieve what I’m actually suggesting, which is long-term suppression of house prices and a subtle tilt away from taxing income toward wealth.
    900,000 landlords who own 5.5m residential properties.
    If I understand correctly, you have better access to figures than me. Would 3% on BTLs generate the same as 1% on all property?

    The other challenge is we don’t want to overly damage the rental market. It’s still too primitive in this country. We want to keep a healthy sector of, say, 20% of tenures.
    The goal wouldn't be to generate revenue, it would be to force down rental yield and get private landlords to sell and invest in equities or building new houses (which I would exempt from the tax). However, if the market held, then yes, given that BTL is concentrated on London and the home counties, values are higher.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you Mr Meeks: an interesting and thoughtful piece.

    One thing has always interested me - this idea that if the EU were perceived to be too generous to the UK it would encourage others to demand the same. I wonder how far this is true. Other countries don't seem to have the same issues as the UK has had with free movement, not least because they don't see it as immigration in the way that many in the UK do and because of geographical issues and different welfare systems. They also have a different view of the nation state for historical reasons. So would there really be this push from others to get a similar Britain-lite deal?

    Most other EU countries imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 unlike Blair's UK
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603

    TM seems to be very distracted today

    As the old saying goes - "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies behind you....."

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,182
    Scott_P said:
    My bet on 2018 election looking better by the day.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
    Seems pretty daft to declare all private landlords as scum. What are you, a Corbynista?

    My intention is not, anyway, to make home ownership “worse” to make people “feel better”. I am a home owner.

    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain groups.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258

    TM seems to be very distracted today

    As the old saying goes - "Your opponents are in front of you, your enemies behind you....."

    And today alongside her
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Slightly late to the party here but just wanted to commend Alastair on an excellent header. Unfortunately, too many on both sides seem to regard reaching an workable agreement as a pleasant bonus, should the process so conclude - while they prioritise their primary goal of playing to their own audiences. Negotiation requires understanding the other side. The EU has never understood, nor sought to understand, the Brexit mindset but simply assumed them to be endemically hostile and adopted a similarly hostile attitude in consequence (it has to be said that many brexiteers have not helped themselves in that respect).

    The EU's negotiating stance has been based on a deep understanding of the Brexit mindset, and a determination that it must not be appeased any longer.
    Could you give an example of that appeasement?
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Slightly late to the party here but just wanted to commend Alastair on an excellent header. Unfortunately, too many on both sides seem to regard reaching an workable agreement as a pleasant bonus, should the process so conclude - while they prioritise their primary goal of playing to their own audiences. Negotiation requires understanding the other side. The EU has never understood, nor sought to understand, the Brexit mindset but simply assumed them to be endemically hostile and adopted a similarly hostile attitude in consequence (it has to be said that many brexiteers have not helped themselves in that respect).

    The EU's negotiating stance has been based on a deep understanding of the Brexit mindset, and a determination that it must not be appeased any longer.
    "Appeased". So are we allowed to vote ourselves out in any circumstance at all, in your view?
    William's oft stated position is that democracy is overrated and nation states should be dissolved. I suppose the one positive is that he is consistent.
    It's most frequently stated in your posts telling me what my position is...
    But what's the answer to my question?
    It deserves a longer answer but yes I do think it's possible to imagine circumstances in which it would be the right thing to leave. But essentially I think that for as long as there is an EU it will be in our interests to be inside it rather than outside it in almost all conceivable circumstances.

    At the time of Brexit a lot of people thought the EU was on its last legs, was no longer relevant to the modern world, and we'd be rapidly followed by other member states. Had that been true it might have been the right decision at the right time, but it wasn't.
    Thank you. At least the principle of being able to vote ourselves out is there, though I've little doubt we disagree on the circumstances that make it right.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985
    MaxPB said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
    Galileo is controlled by two ground stations: one in Italy and one in Germany. If they wanted something in the South Atlantic for some reason then Cape Verde would suffice.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
    Seems pretty daft to declare all private landlords as scum. What are you, a Corbynista?

    My intention is not, anyway, to make home ownership “worse” to make people “feel better”. I am a home owner.

    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain groups.
    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain

    all Leavers are racists
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
    Seems pretty daft to declare all private landlords as scum. What are you, a Corbynista?

    My intention is not, anyway, to make home ownership “worse” to make people “feel better”. I am a home owner.

    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain groups.
    That's all a 1% tax would achieve. It wouldn't help people not on the property ladder get on it.

    Good policy should try and help as many people as possible. There are around 14m people in private rentals, there are 0.9m private landlords. A policy which hits the landlords and helps the private tenants has the most benefit for the nation.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797
    edited May 2018
    Why was Speaker B not in the chair today?
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258
    Cheer when PMQ finished with shouts of more to the Deputy Speaker. Bercow not missed
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    Scott_P said:
    My bet on 2018 election looking better by the day.
    There will not be a general election this year, whatever tantrums Brexiteers and Remainers have about what form of Customs Union if any we stay in there is zero appetite amongst Tory MPs and members for a general election.

    In any case as the polls and local elections prove another general election would produce an almost identical result to the last one thus resolving nothing either in terms of giving a government with a stronger mandate or on Brexit
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258
    GIN1138 said:

    Why was Speaker B not in the chair today?
    At Michael Martin's funeral
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    My bet on 2018 election looking better by the day.
    There will not be a general election this year, whatever tantrums Brexiteers and Remainers have about what form of Customs Union if any we stay in there is zero appetite amongst Tory MPs and members for a general election.

    In any case as the polls and local elections prove another general election would produce an almost identical result to the last one thus resolving nothing either in terms of giving a government with a stronger mandate or on Brexit
    You're maybe using a different definition of the word "prove" to the one I'm familiar with
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603
    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
    Galileo is controlled by two ground stations: one in Italy and one in Germany. If they wanted something in the South Atlantic for some reason then Cape Verde would suffice.
    But relies on other ground based support:

    https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2402259/7-fascinating-facts-about-eus-galileo-satellite-project
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
    Seems pretty daft to declare all private landlords as scum. What are you, a Corbynista?

    My intention is not, anyway, to make home ownership “worse” to make people “feel better”. I am a home owner.

    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain groups.
    That's all a 1% tax would achieve. It wouldn't help people not on the property ladder get on it.

    Good policy should try and help as many people as possible. There are around 14m people in private rentals, there are 0.9m private landlords. A policy which hits the landlords and helps the private tenants has the most benefit for the nation.
    How do you hit landlords without them passing the costs on to the tenants?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,849

    So the bunch of a-holes in Brussels accurately described by Mr M are the ones that Remainers want us to stay Best Friends Forever with.

    The EU's negotiating approach exemplifies why we are so right to be leaving. They just want to look like the tough guys in order to intimidate and other Sovereign Nation State (!) who might dare to consider following us out of the door. Having a win-win deal with the UK doesn't even feature in their thinking.

    Pity our lot are a bunch of snivelling cowards who will give in though.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052

    Slightly late to the party here but just wanted to commend Alastair on an excellent header. Unfortunately, too many on both sides seem to regard reaching an workable agreement as a pleasant bonus, should the process so conclude - while they prioritise their primary goal of playing to their own audiences. Negotiation requires understanding the other side. The EU has never understood, nor sought to understand, the Brexit mindset but simply assumed them to be endemically hostile and adopted a similarly hostile attitude in consequence (it has to be said that many brexiteers have not helped themselves in that respect).

    The EU's negotiating stance has been based on a deep understanding of the Brexit mindset, and a determination that it must not be appeased any longer.
    Could you give an example of that appeasement?
    https://www.politico.eu/article/tusk-sends-eu-leaders-proposed-u-k-deal/
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258
    Not sure what he is getting at
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
    Seems pretty daft to declare all private landlords as scum. What are you, a Corbynista?

    My intention is not, anyway, to make home ownership “worse” to make people “feel better”. I am a home owner.

    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain groups.
    That's all a 1% tax would achieve. It wouldn't help people not on the property ladder get on it.

    Good policy should try and help as many people as possible. There are around 14m people in private rentals, there are 0.9m private landlords. A policy which hits the landlords and helps the private tenants has the most benefit for the nation.
    How do you hit landlords without them passing the costs on to the tenants?
    Markets dictate rent, not landlords.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936

    welshowl said:

    Slightly late to the party here but just wanted to commend Alastair on an excellent header. Unfortunately, too many on both sides seem to regard reaching an workable agreement as a pleasant bonus, should the process so conclude - while they prioritise their primary goal of playing to their own audiences. Negotiation requires understanding the other side. The EU has never understood, nor sought to understand, the Brexit mindset but simply assumed them to be endemically hostile and adopted a similarly hostile attitude in consequence (it has to be said that many brexiteers have not helped themselves in that respect).

    The EU's negotiating stance has been based on a deep understanding of the Brexit mindset, and a determination that it must not be appeased any longer.
    "Appeased". So are we allowed to vote ourselves out in any circumstance at all, in your view?
    William's oft stated position is that democracy is overrated and nation states should be dissolved. I suppose the one positive is that he is consistent.
    It's most frequently stated in your posts telling me what my position is...
    Only repeating what you yourself have said in the past. Like to make sure people don't forget that.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754

    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
    Galileo is controlled by two ground stations: one in Italy and one in Germany. If they wanted something in the South Atlantic for some reason then Cape Verde would suffice.
    But relies on other ground based support:

    https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2402259/7-fascinating-facts-about-eus-galileo-satellite-project
    the more amusing thing in that list is the EU working with China on it

    but apparently the UK is a risk
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    TM seems to be very distracted today

    Boris with his Daily Mail crazy stunt did not help her.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603

    Not sure what he is getting at
    The dog that did not bark.

    Why did none of the ERG group ask the PM to rule out a 'Customs Partnership'.....why?
  • Options
    NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    He is being dazzled by Esther's radiance.
    Or is jet-lagged....
    Well quite. Despite UK politics still being obsessed by Brexit the Trump Iran situation might be concerning our FS.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited May 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    My bet on 2018 election looking better by the day.
    There will not be a general election this year, whatever tantrums Brexiteers and Remainers have about what form of Customs Union if any we stay in there is zero appetite amongst Tory MPs and members for a general election.

    In any case as the polls and local elections prove another general election would produce an almost identical result to the last one thus resolving nothing either in terms of giving a government with a stronger mandate or on Brexit
    You're maybe using a different definition of the word "prove" to the one I'm familiar with
    The progress Corbyn made at the last general election was almost entirely due to squeezing the LD, UKIP and Green votes which are now all down effectively to the bone at national level. He made virtually no net gains in voters from the Tories.

    To win the next general election he needs big net gains of voters from the Tories and there is still zero evidence of him achieving that
  • Options
    hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 642
    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you Mr Meeks: an interesting and thoughtful piece.

    One thing has always interested me - this idea that if the EU were perceived to be too generous to the UK it would encourage others to demand the same. I wonder how far this is true. Other countries don't seem to have the same issues as the UK has had with free movement, not least because they don't see it as immigration in the way that many in the UK do and because of geographical issues and different welfare systems. They also have a different view of the nation state for historical reasons. So would there really be this push from others to get a similar Britain-lite deal?

    Most other EU countries imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 unlike Blair's UK
    I spend a lot of time in Switzerland and the immigration issues they face dwarf those of the UK. The Swiss voted to leave Schengen but this has been effectively stopped by the EU with a combination of threats and actions.

    The UK economy is heading down when even Greggs has a profit warning. The EU will see no need to change tactic as they cant see the UK continuing the fight.

  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,966
    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Well, she was a Remainer.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847
    edited May 2018

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
    Seems pretty daft to declare all private landlords as scum. What are you, a Corbynista?

    My intention is not, anyway, to make home ownership “worse” to make people “feel better”. I am a home owner.

    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain groups.
    That's all a 1% tax would achieve. It wouldn't help people not on the property ladder get on it.

    Good policy should try and help as many people as possible. There are around 14m people in private rentals, there are 0.9m private landlords. A policy which hits the landlords and helps the private tenants has the most benefit for the nation.
    How do you hit landlords without them passing the costs on to the tenants?
    Max seems to think private rentals are inherently immoral. In fact, yields in London at least are already awful. A strong rental sector is part of a wider, healthy housing market.

    The problem for the young - and for the U.K., given productivity problems - is that we prefer to spend our money on housing rather than other forms of investment, and this is favoured via the tax system.

    We need a macro solution, not a micro one.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Boris is a prat but we need to get cause and effect right here. Was May weak because of her unruly cabinet or is the cabinet unruly because May is weak? When she bends with the wind on every challenge, why on earth wouldn't cabinet ministers whip up a storm to protect their interests or preferences?
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    The Brexitiers appear to have overbid their hand and are now in difficulties in the play with the opponents easily making tricks.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    The Brexitiers appear to have overbid their hand and are now in difficulties in the play with the opponents easily making tricks.
    All mouth and no trousers/plan as usual.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2018
    At the 2006 local elections the LDs won 4 of the 7 wards in the Lewisham East constituency:

    http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/map/2006/27/
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258
    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Boris is a disaster zone - and no the party will not be destroyed
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797
    edited May 2018

    Not sure what he is getting at
    The dog that did not bark.

    Why did none of the ERG group ask the PM to rule out a 'Customs Partnership'.....why?
    Keeping their powder dry until they see what the governments actual stance is - JRM is (officially) saying he doesn't believe May will will betray her 2017 manifesto commitments and we will leave SM and CU as promised.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Max seems to think private rentals are inherently immoral. In fact, yields in London at least are already awful. A strong rental sector is part of a wider, healthy housing market.

    The problem for the young - and for the U.K., given productivity problems - is that we prefer to spend our money on housing rather than other forms of investment, and this is favoured via the tax system.

    We need a macro solution, not a micro one.

    It is immoral. Unless you're building new property there is no reason to "invest" in housing. You're just depriving someone else of secure home ownership.

    A 3% value tax is a macro solution, it would force property "investors" to look elsewhere for yield.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    No as she made clear we are leaving the Customs Union she just wants as she made clear in December enough regulatory alignment on Customs to resolve the Irish issue and enable the move to a FTA. She is also still leaving the EU and the single market and ending free movement.

    Labour is just as divided on Brexit, Corbyn committed to leaving the single market agaibst many of his own MPs and a majority of Labour seats voting Leave while a majority of Labour members and voters voted Remain

  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Agreed , either Boris should resign or May .This surely can not go on much longer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/boris-johnson-crazy-remark-cabinet-brexit-deal-theresa-may
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603
    Norm said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    He is being dazzled by Esther's radiance.
    Or is jet-lagged....
    Well quite. Despite UK politics still being obsessed by Brexit the Trump Iran situation might be concerning our FS.
    His statement on Iran was quite statesmanlike - as was Thornberry's response. This is deeply serious stuff - both rose to the occasion. PMQs was like a scrap behind the bike-shed...
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,258

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Boris is a prat but we need to get cause and effect right here. Was May weak because of her unruly cabinet or is the cabinet unruly because May is weak? When she bends with the wind on every challenge, why on earth wouldn't cabinet ministers whip up a storm to protect their interests or preferences?
    Bit of both in my opinion
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,985

    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
    Galileo is controlled by two ground stations: one in Italy and one in Germany. If they wanted something in the South Atlantic for some reason then Cape Verde would suffice.
    But relies on other ground based support:

    https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2402259/7-fascinating-facts-about-eus-galileo-satellite-project
    The EU's flagship technology project isn't going to fail over access to ASI and the FI. There are plenty of other inhospitable bird shit splattered rocks in the South Atlantic: Trindade, Cape Verde, and a few Brazilian ones I've expunged from my memory. Argentine and Chile would also be options.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Thank you Mr Meeks: an interesting and thoughtful piece.

    One thing has always interested me - this idea that if the EU were perceived to be too generous to the UK it would encourage others to demand the same. I wonder how far this is true. Other countries don't seem to have the same issues as the UK has had with free movement, not least because they don't see it as immigration in the way that many in the UK do and because of geographical issues and different welfare systems. They also have a different view of the nation state for historical reasons. So would there really be this push from others to get a similar Britain-lite deal?

    Most other EU countries imposed transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 unlike Blair's UK
    I spend a lot of time in Switzerland and the immigration issues they face dwarf those of the UK. The Swiss voted to leave Schengen but this has been effectively stopped by the EU with a combination of threats and actions.

    The UK economy is heading down when even Greggs has a profit warning. The EU will see no need to change tactic as they cant see the UK continuing the fight.

    Switzerland still gives preference to local workers first for jobs and is neither in the EU nor the EEA but the fact is the EU granted us transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries in 2004 but Blair failed to take them up on it.

    We have the lowest unemployment for decades despite warnings of apocalypse post the Brexit vote.
    Ending free movement is a completely non negotiable element of Brexit
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603
    Scott_P said:
    Hoyle was so much better - brisk and to the point - and hardly ever spoke....
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    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    edited May 2018
    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    No as she made clear we are leaving the Customs Union she just wants as she made clear in December enough regulatory alignment on Customs to resolve the Irish issue and enable the move to a FTA. She is also still leaving the EU and the single market and ending free movement.

    Labour is just as divided on Brexit, Corbyn committed to leaving the single market agaibst many of his own MPs and a majority of Labour seats voting Leave while a majority of Labour members and voters voted Remain

    Labour was in the same position as the Conservatives in 1992 over the ERM.

    Been forced out hit the government politically the hardest not the opposition.

    The same applied to the banking crisis in 2007 -8
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603
    One answer to the question on 'who benefits from Boeing/Airbus losing Iran Air orders? - Not China:

    https://twitter.com/AlexInAir/status/994180320370069504
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,797
    Scott_P said:

    4. He's betrayed the policy that was in his manifesto last year...

    Say what you want about Donald Trump the one thing he does have going for him is that he sticks to what he says he'll do not like the politicians in this country who say whatever they think will get them elected and then go back on it once they are back in Westminster.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Foxy said:

    Lady Phyll Opoku-Gyimah is maybe best-placed to increase the Labour majority in Lewisham East.Some other impressive women coming forwards too.

    In January, LGBT campaigner Phyll Opoku-Gyimah became briefly best-known for turning down the MBE she'd been offered on 2016's New Year's Honours list. She was flattered, she said to Diva magazine, but wasn't hugely keen on accepting an award linked to "colonialism and its toxic and enduring legacy in the Commonwealth, where – among many other injustices – LGBTQI people are still being persecuted, tortured and even killed because of sodomy laws."

    Sounds a perfect Corbynista...its all the evil empire's fault for everything ever.
    I do see her point, time that MBE and similar gongs were renamed.

    Perhaps the MBE could be relaunched as The Commonwealth Medal.
    Folk are familiar with MBE OBE and the like. The solution is simple. Replace "Empire" with "Excellence"
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,910
    Yorkcity said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    No as she made clear we are leaving the Customs Union she just wants as she made clear in December enough regulatory alignment on Customs to resolve the Irish issue and enable the move to a FTA. She is also still leaving the EU and the single market and ending free movement.

    Labour is just as divided on Brexit, Corbyn committed to leaving the single market agaibst many of his own MPs and a majority of Labour seats voting Leave while a majority of Labour members and voters voted Remain

    Labour was in the same position as the Conservatives in 1992 over the ERM.
    Been forced out hit the government politically the hardest not the opposition.
    The same applied to the banking crisis in 2007 -8
    Yes, it is one of the (rightful) burdens of Government. OTOH the opposition needs to show they are 'ready' for government at the next election whereas the Gov't has this as the de facto position.
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,250

    MaxPB said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
    The Empire Strikes Back......
    "You are beaten! It is useless to resist!"
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,052
    JackW said:

    Foxy said:

    Lady Phyll Opoku-Gyimah is maybe best-placed to increase the Labour majority in Lewisham East.Some other impressive women coming forwards too.

    In January, LGBT campaigner Phyll Opoku-Gyimah became briefly best-known for turning down the MBE she'd been offered on 2016's New Year's Honours list. She was flattered, she said to Diva magazine, but wasn't hugely keen on accepting an award linked to "colonialism and its toxic and enduring legacy in the Commonwealth, where – among many other injustices – LGBTQI people are still being persecuted, tortured and even killed because of sodomy laws."

    Sounds a perfect Corbynista...its all the evil empire's fault for everything ever.
    I do see her point, time that MBE and similar gongs were renamed.

    Perhaps the MBE could be relaunched as The Commonwealth Medal.
    Folk are familiar with MBE OBE and the like. The solution is simple. Replace "Empire" with "Excellence"
    Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Excellence?
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,250
    edited May 2018

    I note that the Tiger was the nickname of Clemenceau, one of the principal architects of the Treaty of Versailles at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919.

    The sketch presumably anticipates the Second World War resulting from Germany's later rejection of the Treaty Of Versailles as too harsh.

    I remember that cartoon clearly from one of my History GCSE textbooks from some 25 years back!
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Yes, that's pretty much where I stand. Instead of making home ownership worse so those who don't own them feel a bit better, let's get those people who rent onto the property ladder. We can only do that by destroying private landlords and treating them like the scum they are.
    Seems pretty daft to declare all private landlords as scum. What are you, a Corbynista?

    My intention is not, anyway, to make home ownership “worse” to make people “feel better”. I am a home owner.

    Good policy should be dispassionate, not based on demonising certain groups.
    That's all a 1% tax would achieve. It wouldn't help people not on the property ladder get on it.

    Good policy should try and help as many people as possible. There are around 14m people in private rentals, there are 0.9m private landlords. A policy which hits the landlords and helps the private tenants has the most benefit for the nation.
    How do you hit landlords without them passing the costs on to the tenants?
    Max seems to think private rentals are inherently immoral. In fact, yields in London at least are already awful. A strong rental sector is part of a wider, healthy housing market.

    The problem for the young - and for the U.K., given productivity problems - is that we prefer to spend our money on housing rather than other forms of investment, and this is favoured via the tax system.

    We need a macro solution, not a micro one.
    +1.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,936
    Scott_P said:
    Except it won't prevent a hard Irish border.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    MaxPB said:

    Max seems to think private rentals are inherently immoral. In fact, yields in London at least are already awful. A strong rental sector is part of a wider, healthy housing market.

    The problem for the young - and for the U.K., given productivity problems - is that we prefer to spend our money on housing rather than other forms of investment, and this is favoured via the tax system.

    We need a macro solution, not a micro one.

    It is immoral. Unless you're building new property there is no reason to "invest" in housing. You're just depriving someone else of secure home ownership.

    A 3% value tax is a macro solution, it would force property "investors" to look elsewhere for yield.
    There are challenges with short-term tenancy agreements being so dominant, which are probably a bit too weighted to the landlord, but private rental isn't immoral.

    It brings vacant and unused property into use and allows people who anticipate living in an area for only 1-2 years a flexible accommodation option at a relatively high standard.

    State-run rentals would tend to be of a poorer quality with greater restrictions on use, and bureaucracy in getting tenancies set up, which would probably reduce available housing stock overall and reduce labour mobility.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,709
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:

    4. He's betrayed the policy that was in his manifesto last year...

    Say what you want about Donald Trump the one thing he does have going for him is that he sticks to what he says he'll do not like the politicians in this country who say whatever they think will get them elected and then go back on it once they are back in Westminster.
    The trouble is everything Trump does is wrong - possible exception of North Korea.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    JackW said:

    Foxy said:

    Lady Phyll Opoku-Gyimah is maybe best-placed to increase the Labour majority in Lewisham East.Some other impressive women coming forwards too.

    In January, LGBT campaigner Phyll Opoku-Gyimah became briefly best-known for turning down the MBE she'd been offered on 2016's New Year's Honours list. She was flattered, she said to Diva magazine, but wasn't hugely keen on accepting an award linked to "colonialism and its toxic and enduring legacy in the Commonwealth, where – among many other injustices – LGBTQI people are still being persecuted, tortured and even killed because of sodomy laws."

    Sounds a perfect Corbynista...its all the evil empire's fault for everything ever.
    I do see her point, time that MBE and similar gongs were renamed.

    Perhaps the MBE could be relaunched as The Commonwealth Medal.
    Folk are familiar with MBE OBE and the like. The solution is simple. Replace "Empire" with "Excellence"
    Member of the Most Excellent Order of the British Excellence?
    Simply to :

    Member (Officer, Knight) of the Order of British Excellence.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Yorkcity said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Agreed , either Boris should resign or May .This surely can not go on much longer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/boris-johnson-crazy-remark-cabinet-brexit-deal-theresa-may
    Boris is propped up by 30-40 loyal MPs who think that because he's got charisma, was a half-decent Mayor and can pen a witty column every 6 months, and do a pithy stump speech, he's a shoe-in for PM.

    In truth, that was his limit and I think he knows it. I don't see much steel or initiative in the positions he takes. I think he's being driven from underneath, not by himself.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,841
    Pulpstar said:


    Yes, it is one of the (rightful) burdens of Government. OTOH the opposition needs to show they are 'ready' for government at the next election whereas the Gov't has this as the de facto position.

    The Party of Government has responsibility for the stewardship of the country and the public has every right to question the Government over its decision and call it to account for its actions.

    The Government has to defend the present and the past, the Opposition has to defend the future.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,280

    Not sure what he is getting at
    When someone walks out of the casino having lost their house and car you don't ask them for the the fiver you lent them a fortnight ago.

  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Any politician who plays politics with people's houses in our democracy is committing electoral suicide, for the reasons you mention.

    Its people's safe haven from all the woes of the world and their lives. It's unsurprising they defend it tenaciously.

    I should add I do allow pets in the (one) house I rent out - my old one - which is purely because I can't sell it because of my bloody neighbours. I'd love to release the equity.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    welshowl said:

    welshowl said:

    Slightly late to the party here but just wanted to commend Alastair on an excellent header. Unfortunately, too many on both sides seem to regard reaching an workable agreement as a pleasant bonus, should the process so conclude - while they prioritise their primary goal of playing to their own audiences. Negotiation requires understanding the other side. The EU has never understood, nor sought to understand, the Brexit mindset but simply assumed them to be endemically hostile and adopted a similarly hostile attitude in consequence (it has to be said that many brexiteers have not helped themselves in that respect).

    The EU's negotiating stance has been based on a deep understanding of the Brexit mindset, and a determination that it must not be appeased any longer.
    "Appeased". So are we allowed to vote ourselves out in any circumstance at all, in your view?
    William's oft stated position is that democracy is overrated and nation states should be dissolved. I suppose the one positive is that he is consistent.
    It's most frequently stated in your posts telling me what my position is...
    But what's the answer to my question?
    It deserves a longer answer but yes I do think it's possible to imagine circumstances in which it would be the right thing to leave.
    Wow. I just choked on my lunch.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    2006 local elections: Lewisham East, using highest vote method.

    LD 6,432 (29.5%)
    Lab 6,357 (29.2%)
    Con 5,072 (23.3%)
    Greens 2,637 (12.1%)
    Ind 1,020 (4.7%)
    UKIP 281 (1.3%)
  • Options
    YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Yorkcity said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Agreed , either Boris should resign or May .This surely can not go on much longer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/boris-johnson-crazy-remark-cabinet-brexit-deal-theresa-may
    Boris is propped up by 30-40 loyal MPs who think that because he's got charisma, was a half-decent Mayor and can pen a witty column every 6 months, and do a pithy stump speech, he's a shoe-in for PM.

    In truth, that was his limit and I think he knows it. I don't see much steel or initiative in the positions he takes. I think he's being driven from underneath, not by himself.
    I think Boris could get a Conservative majority against Corbyn.

    Whereas May has already proved she could not .

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    Yorkcity said:

    HYUFD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    No as she made clear we are leaving the Customs Union she just wants as she made clear in December enough regulatory alignment on Customs to resolve the Irish issue and enable the move to a FTA. She is also still leaving the EU and the single market and ending free movement.

    Labour is just as divided on Brexit, Corbyn committed to leaving the single market agaibst many of his own MPs and a majority of Labour seats voting Leave while a majority of Labour members and voters voted Remain

    Labour was in the same position as the Conservatives in 1992 over the ERM.

    Been forced out hit the government politically the hardest not the opposition.

    The same applied to the banking crisis in 2007 -8
    Except the vast majority of current Tory voters voted Leave as did the country, it would hit the Tories harder not to fully implement Brexit than to oppose it and much the same applies to Labour given a majority of Labour seats voted Leave.

    The LDs and the Greens are the only main UK wide parties who can get away with opposing Brexit as most of their seats and voters voted Remain
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Sandpit said:

    Not a bad piece. One bit missing: an EU objective is to save Theresa May.

    Yes, they’d rather have a europhile as British PM but, absent that, they’d rather have her than Jeremy Corbyn or Jacob Rees-Mogg.

    Therefore I don’t expect them to push her too far. They know they deal needs to clear Parliament.

    She’s unlikely to be replaced with JRM, but more likely someone like Michael Gove, agreeing to serve as interim PM for a year purely to see through the Brexit deal - with the likes of JRM and Dan Hannan standing behind him.
    I would hope that even Remainers would have a level of respect for Michael Gove, who's actually one of the few Brexiteers in Government to have the bollocks to put his shoulder to the wheel, and practice what he preaches to make a success of it. He thinks things through, weights options up, and works it out. Then he makes it happen. I think he's hugely impressive.

    Far too many of the others simply shout "Betrayal!" from the sidelines, and object to any and every move the HMG or EU.

    Part of that is simply the chronic levels of mistrust that exist amongst Brexiteers for the EU and our Civil Service (often with good reason, and both I and Michael Gove share them at times) but I'd expect a little more responsibility, circumspection, analysis and rationality in arriving at such conclusions.
  • Options
    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    AndyJS said:

    2006 local elections: Lewisham East, using highest vote method.

    LD 6,432 (29.5%)
    Lab 6,357 (29.2%)
    Con 5,072 (23.3%)
    Greens 2,637 (12.1%)
    Ind 1,020 (4.7%)
    UKIP 281 (1.3%)

    The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    Yorkcity said:

    Yorkcity said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Agreed , either Boris should resign or May .This surely can not go on much longer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/boris-johnson-crazy-remark-cabinet-brexit-deal-theresa-may
    Boris is propped up by 30-40 loyal MPs who think that because he's got charisma, was a half-decent Mayor and can pen a witty column every 6 months, and do a pithy stump speech, he's a shoe-in for PM.

    In truth, that was his limit and I think he knows it. I don't see much steel or initiative in the positions he takes. I think he's being driven from underneath, not by himself.
    I think Boris could get a Conservative majority against Corbyn.

    Whereas May has already proved she could not .

    Even if that's true (and I don't think it is) I think he'd be a poor Prime Minister.
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited May 2018
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    If we stop them using Ascension & the Falklands I'm not sure what alternatives they have....

    Stopping using them for what? The only traffic at Wideawake is a sporadic C-17 and some occasional USAF C-32s.
    The base stations for the satellites. That's what my friend said anyway. There's nowhere else friendly they can be placed.
    Galileo is controlled by two ground stations: one in Italy and one in Germany. If they wanted something in the South Atlantic for some reason then Cape Verde would suffice.
    But relies on other ground based support:

    https://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2402259/7-fascinating-facts-about-eus-galileo-satellite-project
    The EU's flagship technology project isn't going to fail over access to ASI and the FI. There are plenty of other inhospitable bird shit splattered rocks in the South Atlantic: Trindade, Cape Verde, and a few Brazilian ones I've expunged from my memory. Argentine and Chile would also be options.
    All this talk of far flung islands is giving the JRMs of this country the chance to break out the British Empire pink paint and relive their Boys Own fantasies.

    The EU should just claim they will use drones and other technological innovations to help keep Galileo going.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited May 2018
    I think I just heard on the 1 o'clock news that though the Europeans want to continue the Iran deal it's unlikely to hold because European firms including British ones who deal with Iran are likely to be boycotted by the US. Something no country can afford.

    If ever there was a necessity for a strong EU with all hands to the pumps this is it. Are the UK seriously prepared to allow itself and the rest of the EU and Europe to be held to ransom by a lunatic?
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    Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    Bet365 now have Lewisham East prices if you fancy a better rate of interest on Labour. Liable to shorten to 1/100 very quickly after the selection!

    https://www.bet365.com/#/AC/B5/C20584371/D1/E37223463/F2/
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    Yorkcity said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Agreed , either Boris should resign or May .This surely can not go on much longer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/boris-johnson-crazy-remark-cabinet-brexit-deal-theresa-may
    Boris is propped up by 30-40 loyal MPs who think that because he's got charisma, was a half-decent Mayor and can pen a witty column every 6 months, and do a pithy stump speech, he's a shoe-in for PM.

    In truth, that was his limit and I think he knows it. I don't see much steel or initiative in the positions he takes. I think he's being driven from underneath, not by himself.
    Interesting idea, that he’s driven by others.

    I don’t even think he can even do a pithy stump speech anymore. His much trailed speech on the Brexit vision was utter, utter trash.

    Boris is good for a laugh in the good times.
    That’s about it.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,326

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.

    I'm not going to lie when I say I have some (significant) self interest in there not being such a tax, as do you.
    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...
    Any politician who plays politics with people's houses in our democracy is committing electoral suicide, for the reasons you mention.

    Its people's safe haven from all the woes of the world and their lives. It's unsurprising they defend it tenaciously.

    I should add I do allow pets in the (one) house I rent out - my old one - which is purely because I can't sell it because of my bloody neighbours. I'd love to release the equity.
    I don't think people who rent by choice get enough of a hearing. I don't want to fix the roof, repair the boiler, redecorate the lounge, worry about subsidence. DIY is a hobby, not a compulsory lifestyle. I want to get on with life and delegate that stuff to an individual or company who has chosen to occupy themselves with such things, and with luck will do them better than I would. I've lived in private rentals nearly all my life in Britain and abroad and have never had anything other than a good relationship with the landlord. I'd be very annoyed if my landlord listened to Max and decided the moral thing was to sell my flat to someone who wanted to live in it.

    I do agree that landlords can impose too many petty restrictions - specifically on pets, I proposed in Parliament that landlords should only be able to ban pets who are a demonstrable nuisance. In practice, though, the market is moving that way - lots of tenants have pets either explicitly permitted or tolerated. And of course bad landlords and bad tenants spoil the reputation of the sector. But it doesn't have to be like that, and in most countries it's perfectly normal.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302
    I think this pick & mix thing, and good deal/bad deal, is overplayed. It's far more important to focus on balancing responsibilities and obligations with benefits.

    The UK wasn't (and isn't) a member of either Schengen or the Euro. To us, that's a "win" - we have full control over our borders, and can operate our own macroeconomic policy - but to other EU members, that would be a loss: they couldn't benefit from cross-border economic efficiencies, nor have any influence over the currency that affects them the most.

    I suspect the Brexit deal will be similar. It will contain a variety of arrangements and opt-ins (probably at a price) that will work for the UK, but most other EU states would think mad.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,754
    TOPPING said:

    Not sure what he is getting at
    When someone walks out of the casino having lost their house and car you don't ask them for the the fiver you lent them a fortnight ago.

    </blockquote

    tsk

    and I always had you down as an eats raw meat banker Mr T :-)
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Yorkcity said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Agreed , either Boris should resign or May .This surely can not go on much longer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/boris-johnson-crazy-remark-cabinet-brexit-deal-theresa-may
    Boris is propped up by 30-40 loyal MPs who think that because he's got charisma, was a half-decent Mayor and can pen a witty column every 6 months, and do a pithy stump speech, he's a shoe-in for PM.

    In truth, that was his limit and I think he knows it. I don't see much steel or initiative in the positions he takes. I think he's being driven from underneath, not by himself.
    Interesting idea, that he’s driven by others.

    I don’t even think he can even do a pithy stump speech anymore. His much trailed speech on the Brexit vision was utter, utter trash.

    Boris is good for a laugh in the good times.
    That’s about it.
    I think that's right, I'm at a loss as to who I'd vote for in a Boris vs May leadership election. It's Trump vs Clinton all over again.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,847

    Sandpit said:

    Not a bad piece. One bit missing: an EU objective is to save Theresa May.

    Yes, they’d rather have a europhile as British PM but, absent that, they’d rather have her than Jeremy Corbyn or Jacob Rees-Mogg.

    Therefore I don’t expect them to push her too far. They know they deal needs to clear Parliament.

    She’s unlikely to be replaced with JRM, but more likely someone like Michael Gove, agreeing to serve as interim PM for a year purely to see through the Brexit deal - with the likes of JRM and Dan Hannan standing behind him.
    I would hope that even Remainers would have a level of respect for Michael Gove, who's actually one of the few Brexiteers in Government to have the bollocks to put his shoulder to the wheel, and practice what he preaches to make a success of it. He thinks things through, weights options up, and works it out. Then he makes it happen. I think he's hugely impressive.

    Far too many of the others simply shout "Betrayal!" from the sidelines, and object to any and every move the HMG or EU.

    Part of that is simply the chronic levels of mistrust that exist amongst Brexiteers for the EU and our Civil Service (often with good reason, and both I and Michael Gove share them at times) but I'd expect a little more responsibility, circumspection, analysis and rationality in arriving at such conclusions.
    I like Gove.
    He is smart, articulate, and thoughtful.
    He’s not afraid to slaughter sacred cows, and I do believe he’s left every Ministry better than it was.

    The problem is that he makes unnecessary enemies, sometimes makes rash decisions, and seems to be incredibly unpopular - not with me, but with the general public. And his wife seems to see herself as some kind of Lady Macbeth figure.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,603
    edited May 2018
    The UK's proposal on Security:

    Capabilities: space
    UK-EU collaboration through Galileo would help develop Europe’s world-leading global satellite navigation capability and support the competitiveness and expertise of the European space sector.

    The UK is exploring the options for a domestic global navigation satellite system, should the UK and EU be unable to reach agreement on the following:.....

    The arrangements for any UK cooperation on Galileo are an important test case of the depth of operational cooperation and information sharing envisaged under the Security Partnership.


    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/705687/2018-05-0_security_partnership_slides__SI__FINAL.pdf
  • Options
    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Yorkcity said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Barnesian said:

    Boris looks sick

    Now he knows how the rest of us feel.
    As poor as TM was her unruly cabinet laid her wide open to Corbyn's attacks. Boris is a pratt
    Nope. Boris is sticking by the Con manifesto which said we would leave the single market and customs union.

    It's Theresa May who has decided to stand with Remainers and destroy her government (and probably in due course her entire Party)
    Agreed , either Boris should resign or May .This surely can not go on much longer.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/08/boris-johnson-crazy-remark-cabinet-brexit-deal-theresa-may
    Boris is propped up by 30-40 loyal MPs who think that because he's got charisma, was a half-decent Mayor and can pen a witty column every 6 months, and do a pithy stump speech, he's a shoe-in for PM.

    In truth, that was his limit and I think he knows it. I don't see much steel or initiative in the positions he takes. I think he's being driven from underneath, not by himself.
    Interesting idea, that he’s driven by others.

    I don’t even think he can even do a pithy stump speech anymore. His much trailed speech on the Brexit vision was utter, utter trash.

    Boris is good for a laugh in the good times.
    That’s about it.
    Boris has managed to not only trash his future prospects but also caused his past to be re-evaluated and mocked. If he had come out for Remain he might never have been PM but he would have had a respected career and always been talked of as a potential 'best PM who was never'. Instead he'll now be recorded by history as a pound shop Trump blowhard.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,302

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    I don't think introducing property taxes for primary residences is a good idea, even at 1% it represents an opportunity for a future Labour government to jack it up. I think we should introduce a value tax on second property and primary residences owned by non tax residents. Say 3% per year for the former and 25% per year for thale latter.


    A primary residence is not first and foremost an investment, it is a place to live where you know that as the years go by you won't be subject to the vagaries of rising prices and the associated rent rises. It is also somewhere you know you won't get chucked out of (providing you pay the mortgage), and by retirement or thereabouts you will 'own' completely. It's also almost completely impossible to have pets in UK rented accomodation and there is no point spending your own capital to do up someone else's house.
    Now 2nd homes OTOH...

    I .
    I don't think people who rent by choice get enough of a hearing. I don't want to fix the roof, repair the boiler, redecorate the lounge, worry about subsidence. DIY is a hobby, not a compulsory lifestyle. I want to get on with life and delegate that stuff to an individual or company who has chosen to occupy themselves with such things, and with luck will do them better than I would. I've lived in private rentals nearly all my life in Britain and abroad and have never had anything other than a good relationship with the landlord. I'd be very annoyed if my landlord listened to Max and decided the moral thing was to sell my flat to someone who wanted to live in it.

    I do agree that landlords can impose too many petty restrictions - specifically on pets, I proposed in Parliament that landlords should only be able to ban pets who are a demonstrable nuisance. In practice, though, the market is moving that way - lots of tenants have pets either explicitly permitted or tolerated. And of course bad landlords and bad tenants spoil the reputation of the sector. But it doesn't have to be like that, and in most countries it's perfectly normal.
    Agreed. If noise is the issue with pets, I've had far more issues with noisy neighbours at unsocial hours than barking dogs, although I accept that's an issue, particularly where they leave the creature at home all day long. If it's pet hair, then a thorough deep clean can solve it. I would only really have an issue if it were not trained. And therefore would not take puppies. Of course, if it's dangerous, then the law takes care of it already.

    Market forces forced me to change. I had lots of interest from those with pets willing to pay the full market rent, and far less from those who did not, who were not.
This discussion has been closed.