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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Britain’s great Brexit divide as seen through the final Premie

SystemSystem Posts: 6,389
edited May 14 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Britain’s great Brexit divide as seen through the final Premiership football table

The 2017/2018 English Premier League season came to an end yesterday and the above chart shows the final rankings linked to the Brexit referendum Remain shares.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,984
    First :smiley:
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,026
    Second! Like Remain....and the Customs Partnership....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,267
    Third. And trophyless like the ****.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,861
    edited May 14
    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,026
    IanB2 said:


    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Its Remainia's way of trying to argue that the referendum winners are actually losers...
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 695
    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Yes and No - both the Remain/Brexit divide and footballing success at the highest level are associated with wealth/cosmopolitanism, but not causally.

    Another example of this association that is in the news this morning is D.Miliband - it would have been a disaster if he had ever become Labour's leader. JC has much sounder views, on both domestic and foreign policy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,690
    The key points to remember about David Miliband are (1) he is one of the best administrators of his generation (2) he has no imagination, no drive and will never make an important decision because he fears it might be wrong.

    That would make him an excellent civil servant, a fine CEO, and a plausible CotE. He doesn't have what it would take to be PM. He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,407
    daodao said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Yes and No - both the Remain/Brexit divide and footballing success at the highest level are associated with wealth/cosmopolitanism, but not causally.

    Another example of this association that is in the news this morning is D.Miliband - it would have been a disaster if he had ever become Labour's leader. JC has much sounder views, on both domestic and foreign policy.
    What about bananas though? DM was very sound on bananas, as I recall.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,690
    DavidL said:

    daodao said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Yes and No - both the Remain/Brexit divide and footballing success at the highest level are associated with wealth/cosmopolitanism, but not causally.

    Another example of this association that is in the news this morning is D.Miliband - it would have been a disaster if he had ever become Labour's leader. JC has much sounder views, on both domestic and foreign policy.
    What about bananas though? DM was very sound on bananas, as I recall.
    Now you're being a monkey :smile:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,442
    ydoethur said:

    The key points to remember about David Miliband are (1) he is one of the best administrators of his generation (2) he has no imagination, no drive and will never make an important decision because he fears it might be wrong.

    That would make him an excellent civil servant, a fine CEO, and a plausible CotE. He doesn't have what it would take to be PM. He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.

    Is there any evidence of 1?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,690
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    The key points to remember about David Miliband are (1) he is one of the best administrators of his generation (2) he has no imagination, no drive and will never make an important decision because he fears it might be wrong.

    That would make him an excellent civil servant, a fine CEO, and a plausible CotE. He doesn't have what it would take to be PM. He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.

    Is there any evidence of 1?
    His time at DEFRA. He inherited a total shambles from Beckett (see especially the RPA scandal) and sorted it out in twelve months. Admittedly his successors down to Leadsom have frittered away that legacy (Gove may turn it round) but it was impressive.

    He then went to the FO which involves little administration and frankly, was a failure.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 475
    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,525
    Good morning, everyone.

    I feel like my F1 bets this year are giving me some insight into how frustrated strong Remain voters must feel. Narrowly losing is irksome (doing so repeatedly, even worse). Post-race ramble here: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/spain-post-race-analysis-2018.html
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 25,591
    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,007
    Senior Tory MP @sirpeterbottomley says John Bercow will do right thing and quit next month. Speaker’s support is dwindling

    I'd be delighted - but very surprised.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,525
    Mr. Royale, I'm also not into football, but I can see why people would like it.

    What I don't get is the religious devotion a small number seem to have for it. I don't get that in any sport (and booing an F1 podium is just ridiculous too).
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,007

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,861

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    +1. The ball is either at one end of the pitch or the other, and it is difficult to get excited about the difference.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 2,192

    Good morning, everyone.

    I feel like my F1 bets this year are giving me some insight into how frustrated strong Remain voters must feel. Narrowly losing is irksome (doing so repeatedly, even worse). Post-race ramble here: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/spain-post-race-analysis-2018.html

    The correct F1 as Brexit metaphor would be Scuderia Ferrari being denied a win because a rat boy from the nearest council estate hauls down his adidas pants and befouls the last corner with a massive McDonalds Flurry fuelled diarrhetic shit causing the Ferrari to spin off the track.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 25,591
    IanB2 said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    +1. The ball is either at one end of the pitch or the other, and it is difficult to get excited about the difference.
    Next article: “why Gareth Southgate missing the penalty kick in Euro1996 ultimately doomed Remain”
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,861
    Dura_Ace said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    I feel like my F1 bets this year are giving me some insight into how frustrated strong Remain voters must feel. Narrowly losing is irksome (doing so repeatedly, even worse). Post-race ramble here: http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2018/05/spain-post-race-analysis-2018.html

    The correct F1 as Brexit metaphor would be Scuderia Ferrari being denied a win because a rat boy from the nearest council estate hauls down his adidas pants and befouls the last corner with a massive McDonalds Flurry fuelled diarrhetic shit causing the Ferrari to spin off the track.
    Hardly a breakfast time post...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,715
    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    Bollocks, it simply is fun to watch and talk about. It is a collective experience and a unifying one. Crowds are not particularly working class anymore, and increasingly family friendly and multicultural.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,525
    Mr. Ace, an appalling post of which you ought to be ashamed.

    It's diarrhoetic*.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,442
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    The key points to remember about David Miliband are (1) he is one of the best administrators of his generation (2) he has no imagination, no drive and will never make an important decision because he fears it might be wrong.

    That would make him an excellent civil servant, a fine CEO, and a plausible CotE. He doesn't have what it would take to be PM. He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.

    Is there any evidence of 1?
    His time at DEFRA. He inherited a total shambles from Beckett (see especially the RPA scandal) and sorted it out in twelve months. Admittedly his successors down to Leadsom have frittered away that legacy (Gove may turn it round) but it was impressive.

    He then went to the FO which involves little administration and frankly, was a failure.
    Thank you
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 7,331
    There is a connection, I believe, between towns that voted Leave and those doing worse at football. In both cases the town was "left behind". The difference is that in football they didn't vote to leave the premiership and really screw their prospects.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,963

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    Football is my religion.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,715
    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,007
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    Bollocks, it simply is fun to watch and talk about. It is a collective experience and a unifying one. Crowds are not particularly working class anymore, and increasingly family friendly and multicultural.
    Always fun to touch a nerve.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,255
    IanB2 said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    +1. The ball is either at one end of the pitch or the other, and it is difficult to get excited about the difference.
    I quite like watching the local semi-pro team but I’m not keen on going far to watch. And, especially in the top leagues, the finances have gone mad. Spoils it. Load of over-paid mercenaries.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,442
    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    My daughter has been a fanatical football fan since she was seven (she's now ten). When we moved to LA, she researched the local teams and decided she was going to support the new one, LAFC.

    There's no history of football supporting in the family (unless grandpa counts), I don't really care, and she doesn't play. Nevertheless, she is undoubtedly a big fan
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,715
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    My daughter has been a fanatical football fan since she was seven (she's now ten). When we moved to LA, she researched the local teams and decided she was going to support the new one, LAFC.

    There's no history of football supporting in the family (unless grandpa counts), I don't really care, and she doesn't play. Nevertheless, she is undoubtedly a big fan
    What is their atmosphere like at the ground?
  • Torby_FennelTorby_Fennel Posts: 337

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It feels very strange to agree with one of your posts... but, in this case, I do. Actually you could even replace the word "football" with "sport" and still get my agreement. :D

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 25,591
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    Bollocks, it simply is fun to watch and talk about. It is a collective experience and a unifying one. Crowds are not particularly working class anymore, and increasingly family friendly and multicultural.
    Not unifying for me, nor fun.

    Fastest way to make me switch off in sheer boredom is to talk about football. Watching one is my idea of hell.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 19,774

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    There are far more who say the same about politics.....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,690

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    Football is my religion.
    Finally an admission Mr Eagles that you are not 'a good Muslim Boy?' :wink:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,861
    edited May 14
    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,255
    edited May 14
    rcs1000 said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    My daughter has been a fanatical football fan since she was seven (she's now ten). When we moved to LA, she researched the local teams and decided she was going to support the new one, LAFC.

    There's no history of football supporting in the family (unless grandpa counts), I don't really care, and she doesn't play. Nevertheless, she is undoubtedly a big fan
    My younger son started to take an interest in/develop a passion for football almost as soon as he could walk, and this has continued right up to his fifties. I’m not bothered, but took him to games when he was too young to go alone, although only ‘home’ games. His maternal grandfather was quite keen, but would never travel to ’support'; son has been all over the place.
    Now in middle age he hasn’t a son himself, but two of his daughters are quite good players.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,645
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,861
    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    It doesn't always follow however that a sport is more interesting to watch the more proficient the competitors, particularly if the optimum strategy isn't intrinsically entertaining.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,715
    IanB2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    It doesn't always follow however that a sport is more interesting to watch the more proficient the competitors, particularly if the optimum strategy isn't intrinsically entertaining.
    Indeed, it is the errors creating opportunities that make the game so unpredictable and exciting. Football gets more surprise results than most other games.

    The World Cup also gives a stage for what is truly the world's most popular sport. Countries that do not often get that degree of international prominence get their day in the sun.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 11,024
    IanB2 said:



    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.

    +1. I quite enjoy watching a game but it's way down on my priority list and I don't want to spend the time following it regularly. Seeing a few games every few years is a good compromise.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,156

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    Football is my religion.
    Do you think the Jags can make a success of their move to London ?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,026
    How sick is this? The attacks on three christian churches in Surabaya, Indonesia yesterday were carried out by a single family. Father drove the car bomb, two teenage sons the motorcycle bomb, and mother with two ten year old daughters the homicide vest. All died. This morning another family drove up to the Surabaya police station on two motorbikes - the policemen on duty did their jobs and stopped them at the entrance, where one bomb was detonated, killing four of the five family members - the 5 year old survived. Difficult to crack a terrorist cell that's a single family.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,645
    IanB2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    It doesn't always follow however that a sport is more interesting to watch the more proficient the competitors, particularly if the optimum strategy isn't intrinsically entertaining.
    Yes I agree entirely.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,407
    My euro-devil from Milan was trying very hard to be polite about the quality of football that he saw at the Hibs-Hearts derby last week. He did admit it was exciting though.

    I greatly enjoy watching football but I am mainly a TV fan these days. Got a slight problem for the Cup final on Saturday. Apparently someone failed to check the calendar and is getting married that day.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,407
    IanB2 said:

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    It doesn't always follow however that a sport is more interesting to watch the more proficient the competitors, particularly if the optimum strategy isn't intrinsically entertaining.
    Can we leave Mourihno out of this? It's too painful for this time in the morning.
  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,710
    Foxy said:

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....

    Bloody hell, not that again. I wouldn't say I'm a football hater, but do resent its status as a quasi state religion. The question is always, "What team do you support?", not "Do you support a football team?".
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,963
    Pulpstar said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    Football is my religion.
    Do you think the Jags can make a success of their move to London ?
    No.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,407

    How sick is this? The attacks on three christian churches in Surabaya, Indonesia yesterday were carried out by a single family. Father drove the car bomb, two teenage sons the motorcycle bomb, and mother with two ten year old daughters the homicide vest. All died. This morning another family drove up to the Surabaya police station on two motorbikes - the policemen on duty did their jobs and stopped them at the entrance, where one bomb was detonated, killing four of the five family members - the 5 year old survived. Difficult to crack a terrorist cell that's a single family.

    Sounds like that 5 year old had a lucky escape. And not just from the bomb.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,963
    edited May 14
    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps.

    Yesterday was peak Klopp, we only needed a draw and he started with four strikers.

    Fun fact, on the 26th of May this year Liverpool will have played in more European finals this millennium than Everton have won derbies. What a world.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,525
    Miss Vance, we may see a lot of that. ISIS spent much time brainwashing children.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 9,312
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    The key points to remember about David Miliband are (1) he is one of the best administrators of his generation (2) he has no imagination, no drive and will never make an important decision because he fears it might be wrong.

    That would make him an excellent civil servant, a fine CEO, and a plausible CotE. He doesn't have what it would take to be PM. He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.

    Is there any evidence of 1?
    His time at DEFRA. He inherited a total shambles from Beckett (see especially the RPA scandal) and sorted it out in twelve months. Admittedly his successors down to Leadsom have frittered away that legacy (Gove may turn it round) but it was impressive.

    He then went to the FO which involves little administration and frankly, was a failure.
    Plato was also a big fan of D Miliband as a minister-come-manager iirc.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,156
    I find my interest proportional to my hometowns success. It was probably at its peak when I was six.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,407
    Pulpstar said:

    I find my interest proportional to my hometowns success. It was probably at its peak when I was six.

    My hometown team, Dundee United, lost in the play offs for promotion on Friday night. From what I have seen of the accounts this may be very, very bad news. They are in a negative spiral of having to sell their best players each year to survive making promotion ever more difficult. I genuinely worry for their survival.

    Back in the days when I was a season ticket holder I used to go with 2 of my uncles and a great uncle. I don't know how much I would have seen of them otherwise. Football can be a great bond for men.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,188
    Goes to show that while Remain easily won the biggest and wealthiest areas like London and Manchester it was winning poorer working class industrial areas and seaside towns that won it for Leave
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 7,658

    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps...

    Strongly suggests you might be doing it wrong.
  • megalomaniacs4umegalomaniacs4u Posts: 261
    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Hopefully England will do the decent thing and go out in round one rather than limp through.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 7,658
    ydoethur said:

    The key points to remember about David Miliband are (1) he is one of the best administrators of his generation (2) he has no imagination, no drive and will never make an important decision because he fears it might be wrong.

    That would make him an excellent civil servant, a fine CEO, and a plausible CotE. He doesn't have what it would take to be PM. He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.

    And possibly a very useful party chairman for a new centre grouping ?

    If only there were a decent leader out there.
  • megalomaniacs4umegalomaniacs4u Posts: 261
    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    International football is so bloody boring compared to club football - champions league sees far better play than any international. The biggest problem is the damn media going overboard about England before the inevitable failure to perform.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,188
    FF43 said:

    There is a connection, I believe, between towns that voted Leave and those doing worse at football. In both cases the town was "left behind". The difference is that in football they didn't vote to leave the premiership and really screw their prospects.

    The EU is no longer the Premiership on its own, that also includes the USA, India and China
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,188

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    International football is so bloody boring compared to club football - champions league sees far better play than any international. The biggest problem is the damn media going overboard about England before the inevitable failure to perform.
    This year there has been less hype about England but they have done OK in pre tournament matches
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,188
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    The key points to remember about David Miliband are (1) he is one of the best administrators of his generation (2) he has no imagination, no drive and will never make an important decision because he fears it might be wrong.

    That would make him an excellent civil servant, a fine CEO, and a plausible CotE. He doesn't have what it would take to be PM. He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.

    And possibly a very useful party chairman for a new centre grouping ?

    If only there were a decent leader out there.
    I think Chuka fancies his chances....
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,645

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    International football is so bloody boring compared to club football - champions league sees far better play than any international. The biggest problem is the damn media going overboard about England before the inevitable failure to perform.
    I love international tournaments. They often take a while to warm up, but they are great occasions. Happy childhood memories of summer holidays/exam revision time spent watching the world cup/euros.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,963
    edited May 14
    Nigelb said:

    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps...

    Strongly suggests you might be doing it wrong.
    You’ve not watched Liverpool this season.

    That 80 mins against Roma was the best football I’ve ever watched.

    50,000 odd Liverpool fans at Anfield needed a cigarette afterwards.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 17,437

    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps.

    Yesterday was peak Klopp, we only needed a draw and he started with four strikers.

    Fun fact, on the 26th of May this year Liverpool will have played in more European finals this millennium than Everton have won derbies. What a world.

    But they still finished six points behind Man U and have never won the premiership !!!!!
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,645

    Nigelb said:

    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps...

    Strongly suggests you might be doing it wrong.
    You’ve not watched Liverpool this season.

    That 80 mins against Roma was the best football I’ve ever watched.
    Liverpool are ridiculously exciting to watch at the moment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,713

    Mr. Royale, I'm also not into football, but I can see why people would like it.

    What I don't get is the religious devotion a small number seem to have for it. I don't get that in any sport (and booing an F1 podium is just ridiculous too).

    History shows people have always taken games seriously. We have more leisure time now, and more time to spend on games.

    I don't understand people who don't understand why people get so involved in games.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,715
    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    International football is so bloody boring compared to club football - champions league sees far better play than any international. The biggest problem is the damn media going overboard about England before the inevitable failure to perform.
    This year there has been less hype about England but they have done OK in pre tournament matches
    England strikers on form yesterday, defences less so. I think that press hype about England has moderated in recent years, so more realistic prospects now of getting out of the group.

    If you want to get a feel of the good old days then the PAOK/AEK cup final was the place to be this weekend:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/6270255/aek-paok-fans-clash-incredible-video/

    My Greek friends are PAOK supporters, so will be happy.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,188
    London overall winner by ward in 2018 compared to 2014

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/995912938048311296
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 68,963
    edited May 14

    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps.

    Yesterday was peak Klopp, we only needed a draw and he started with four strikers.

    Fun fact, on the 26th of May this year Liverpool will have played in more European finals this millennium than Everton have won derbies. What a world.

    But they still finished six points behind Man U and have never won the premiership !!!!!
    Football wasn’t invented in 1992.

    We’d have finished ahead of Manchester United had we been awarded every penalty we deserved at Anfield. Heck even Spurs won more penalties at Anfield this season than us.

    Plus we’ve been distracted trying to win Old Big Ears for the sixth time.

    Also shall we compare Klopp’s net spend to Jose’s?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,713

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, dlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    International football is so bloody boring compared to club football - champions league sees far better play than any international. The biggest problem is the damn media going overboard about England before the inevitable failure to perform.
    My entire life people seem to have acknowledged that England should do better than they do, but that they don't. I really don't remember much actual expectation they would do well, much going overboard. I think it's one of those myths we agree to live by, this idea people think England will do really well in tournaments.

    What does happen is a lot of hope and hype, but not shock and surprise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,188
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    rkrkrk said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Actually I will enjoy the World Cup. An international competition where you are watching the best in the world is worth a watch, and its only every four years (two if you count the Euros), like the Olympics. Following Sheffield Wednesday or somesuch through every wet Saturday is however akin to maintaining year-round interest in men's table tennis.
    IMO top-level club football is a probably a higher standard than international.
    The teams are better prepared and drilled. But international football in major tournaments is special and the stakes feel much higher.
    International football is so bloody boring compared to club football - champions league sees far better play than any international. The biggest problem is the damn media going overboard about England before the inevitable failure to perform.
    This year there has been less hype about England but they have done OK in pre tournament matches
    England strikers on form yesterday, defences less so. I think that press hype about England has moderated in recent years, so more realistic prospects now of getting out of the group.

    If you want to get a feel of the good old days then the PAOK/AEK cup final was the place to be this weekend:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/6270255/aek-paok-fans-clash-incredible-video/

    My Greek friends are PAOK supporters, so will be happy.

    Looks like Greek football is as turbulent as the economy

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/995912938048311296
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 2,585
    I have no real interest in football whatsoever. To me it is tedious and inconsequential, but many of my interests would seem the same to football fans!

    To quote one of John McDonnell’s heroes, let a thousand flowers bloom :smile:
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,715
    Mr G,

    "But they still finished six points behind Man U and have never won the premiership !!!!!"

    The Premiership? Pah!

    Every year an English club win the Premiership. Even Leicester (apologies to Dr Fox) did it a couple of years ago. You only have to beat teams like West Brom and Stoke. Very seldom do you see an English club win the European Champions Cup - that is a much rarer feat.

    And I'm not even a Liverpool fan.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 6,615
    No doubt Remainers will share my delight at Sunderland's back-to-back relegations.

    How does the SPL table compare?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,713
    edited May 14
    Essexit said:

    Foxy said:

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....

    Bloody hell, not that again. I wouldn't say I'm a football hater, but do resent its status as a quasi state religion. The question is always, "What team do you support?", not "Do you support a football team?".
    I have never been asked that question as an adult unless i am actively engaged in a conversation about football.

    So I'd say, bloody hell, not this nonsense about football being a quasi religion again. It comes up when people are overdramatic about not caring for football. That's fine, but I don't buy the weeping resentment some display about how others like it too much. No one is judged for not liking football.

    It just comes across as a less amusing version of the people who get genuinely angry, not faux angry, about euro vision being cheesy, filled with bad songs and local politics influencing it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,713
    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    Bollocks, it simply is fun to watch and talk about. It is a collective experience and a unifying one. Crowds are not particularly working class anymore, and increasingly family friendly and multicultural.
    I don't know why people such for more complicated explanations.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 17,437

    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps.

    Yesterday was peak Klopp, we only needed a draw and he started with four strikers.

    Fun fact, on the 26th of May this year Liverpool will have played in more European finals this millennium than Everton have won derbies. What a world.

    But they still finished six points behind Man U and have never won the premiership !!!!!
    Football wasn’t invented in 1992.

    We’d have finished ahead of Manchester United had we been awarded every penalty we deserved at Anfield. Heck even Spurs won more penalties at Anfield this season than us.

    Plus we’ve been distracted trying to win Old Big Ears for the sixth time.

    Also shall we compare Klopp’s net spend to Jose’s?
    Liverpool were excellent this year and Utd boring.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,442

    Foxy said:

    MJW said:

    IanB2 said:

    Fourth. Would have been third if Vanilla actually worked.

    These Brexit and football comparisons are silly.

    Not really in this case, it shows two separate but arguably related trends - for the first half of the 20th Century football was dominated by teams from northern, and midlands cities and towns - often financed by a local businessman who made his money from the town's industry. In the global Premier League era the best funded and most successful clubs are international entities in largely metropolitan areas - be they London or the two Northern cities - Liverpool and Manchester - that did best out of regeneration and expansion in further education over the past 25 years. That's arguably a story of Britain's transition from a manufacturing economy where towns held specific local economic advantages and thrived providing they had decent links to ports, to a global services based one where key hubs - most glaringly London - is king.

    That's not the full picture of the Brexit vote by a long chalk, but on the data and anecdotally we know a key driver of the Brexit vote was the margins Leave racked up in those towns - where the working class voted very differently to their city based peers as they felt their area had long been in decline and were looking to attach blame.
    Yes, I think this substantially correct, though Liverpool is perhaps a n exception because of its Irish connection.

    Football haters may want to retreat to their bunkers, the World Cup starts shortly....
    Hopefully England will do the decent thing and go out in round one rather than limp through.
    We're boycotting the group stages because of the whole Skirpal thing.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,804
    Crystal Palace are in Croydon not Southwark.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 17,437
    CD13 said:

    Mr G,

    "But they still finished six points behind Man U and have never won the premiership !!!!!"

    The Premiership? Pah!

    Every year an English club win the Premiership. Even Leicester (apologies to Dr Fox) did it a couple of years ago. You only have to beat teams like West Brom and Stoke. Very seldom do you see an English club win the European Champions Cup - that is a much rarer feat.

    And I'm not even a Liverpool fan.

    They have not won it yet - just a small matter of beating Real Madrid
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 11,804

    Nigelb said:

    By May 26th I’ll have spent 10k watching Liverpool this season, the fact the football Jürgen Klopp is delivering is better than sex helps...

    Strongly suggests you might be doing it wrong.
    You’ve not watched Liverpool this season.

    That 80 mins against Roma was the best football I’ve ever watched.

    50,000 odd Liverpool fans at Anfield needed a cigarette afterwards.
    Does Klopp know that it is not obligatory to make three late substitutions and thereby lose all attacking momentum ?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,715
    Mr kl4,

    "t just comes across as a less amusing version of the people who get genuinely angry, not faux angry, about euro vision being cheesy,"

    I've never met anyone that daft. The Euro song contest is meant to be cheesy, what else is it good for? It is what it is.

    Although I still think the Polish milkmaids were robbed by the Austrian tranny. PC gone mad!

    My favourite moment? The time the Swedish hostess a few years ago told the crowd around the stage "Just tell your mother you've not met the right girl yet."
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,506
    edited May 14
    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    Bollocks, it simply is fun to watch and talk about. It is a collective experience and a unifying one. Crowds are not particularly working class anymore, and increasingly family friendly and multicultural.
    Always fun to touch a nerve.
    I don’t see how your comment touched a nerve at all. The idea that people couldn’t possibly just simply enjoy the game, and instead only watch it and go to games to show ‘solidarity with working class culture’ is a bizarre analysis.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,379
    This does tell us a little about Brexit. Leave areas don't have the resources of the Remain areas. The gap is perhaps still increasing. Brexit shows the anger at this. It does not represent a solution to it.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,525
    Mr. Meeks, a problem assessing areas that voted this way or that is that there are often overlapping but different aspects which makes deciding which one (or ones) are involved in the decision-making process.

    For example, cities tended to vote Remain. Is that due to large population centres having a lower proportion of white people and being more ethnically mixed? Is it due to higher average wages? Is there a geographical skew (to the Central Belt in Scotland, south in Wales/England)? It could even be down to car usage.

    The party aspects are no less difficult. Socially conservative people appear likelier to have voted Leave, but that includes a lot of Old Labour types, as well as old-fashioned Conservatives.

    It'd be fascinating to see how we would've voted if, instead of both campaigns being dreadful, both campaigns had been fantastic. Suppose we'd had a lucid explanation of the positives of being in the EU, opposed by a confident, well-considered assessment of the advantages of leaving. Would the weight of inertia presented by the status quo and mass of the political/media class told? Would we have remained (ahem) on a course to leave, because the UK simply doesn't want the political integration?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 3,314
    HYUFD said:

    London overall winner by ward in 2018 compared to 2014

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/995912938048311296

    Interesting map.

    I see the LibDems are establishing footholds in Merton, Ealing and Haringay. All it takes to start with is two or three enthusiatic members who are willing to campaign on local issues, who attract followers, and then win a few seats and enthuse members in neighbouring districts. The tinder is dry. All it needs is a flame. Then it spreads.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 11,080

    This does tell us a little about Brexit. Leave areas don't have the resources of the Remain areas. The gap is perhaps still increasing. Brexit shows the anger at this. It does not represent a solution to it.

    What, in your view, would be a solution to it?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 12,386
    edited May 14
    kle4 said:


    My entire life people seem to have acknowledged that England should do better than they do, but that they don't. I really don't remember much actual expectation they would do well, much going overboard. I think it's one of those myths we agree to live by, this idea people think England will do really well in tournaments.

    What does happen is a lot of hope and hype, but not shock and surprise.

    It's mostly the commentators' fault; there's always a (short) breathless wait for them to mention the time that England did do really well in a tournament.

    The often exaggeratedly short prices on England's chances caused by punters' money tend to suggest that some folk do have unrealistic expectations, though that probably applies to a lot of teams.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,282
    edited May 14

    This does tell us a little about Brexit. Leave areas don't have the resources of the Remain areas. The gap is perhaps still increasing. Brexit shows the anger at this. It does not represent a solution to it.

    The most successful football clubs may be based in remain voting inner city areas but their supporters mostly aren't. Watch the packed out trains to leave voting areas of Essex and Hertfordshire as the West Ham and Spurs fans go home - much the same with Chelsea and Arsenal fans as few live in Islington or Hammersmith and Fulham.

    Haringey and Newham and Islington and Mancester and Liverpool also contain some of the highest levels of deprivation in the country.

    Not sure that it tells us much bar the fact that large football clubs tend to be based in our biggest cities where you tend to find younger and more BME voters who trended remain. The people who support those clubs with their money however generally don't live locally - and actually live in leave areas in the suburbs and surrounding shires.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 16,957
    Morning all,

    I'm feeling old. Can someone explain the latest lefty meme: this 'gammon' thing?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 4,679
    CHART corrected. Crystal Palace is in Croydon
  • felixfelix Posts: 8,007

    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    Bollocks, it simply is fun to watch and talk about. It is a collective experience and a unifying one. Crowds are not particularly working class anymore, and increasingly family friendly and multicultural.
    Always fun to touch a nerve.
    I don’t see how your comment touched a nerve at all. The idea that people couldn’t possibly just simply enjoy the game, and instead only watch it and go to games to show ‘solidarity with working class culture’ is a bizarre analysis.
    Gratuitous swearing suggests nerve touching - your problem if you can't see it .
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 7,331
    edited May 14
    Cyclefree said:

    This does tell us a little about Brexit. Leave areas don't have the resources of the Remain areas. The gap is perhaps still increasing. Brexit shows the anger at this. It does not represent a solution to it.

    What, in your view, would be a solution to it?
    In my view, the solution is to help those "left behind" engage with globalisation. Deciding you don't like globalisation and are then opt out of it, as with Brexit, is a dreadful mistake. Globalists do bear responsibility however for not acknowledging the relative losers and then not supporting them.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,525
    Mr. Divvie, commentators can often be terrible in many sports. Still miss Murray Walker's excellent combination of enthusiasm, knowledge, and gaffes.

    "There's nothing wrong with the car except that it's on fire."

    Mr. Borough, it's a criticism of older white votes (based on them being the colour of gammon). Not quite as overt as 'white mansplaining', though:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 12,386
    felix said:

    felix said:

    Foxy said:

    felix said:

    I have zero interest in football, and struggle to understand why others do.

    It's fashionable among middle class liberals as they think it shows solidarity with w/c culture. It induces my gag reflex.
    Bollocks, it simply is fun to watch and talk about. It is a collective experience and a unifying one. Crowds are not particularly working class anymore, and increasingly family friendly and multicultural.
    Always fun to touch a nerve.
    I don’t see how your comment touched a nerve at all. The idea that people couldn’t possibly just simply enjoy the game, and instead only watch it and go to games to show ‘solidarity with working class culture’ is a bizarre analysis.
    Gratuitous swearing suggests nerve touching - your problem if you can't see it .
    Lol, bollocks = gratuitous swearing!

    Were you bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist this am?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,525
    Mr. Divvie, I know a joke about a cycling priest (it was one of several deliberately bad ones told by my Religious Studies teacher to help us remember stuff).

    A priest is cycling round his parish, visiting his flock, ahead of the service that evening. After emerging from a house, he can't find his bike, and decides he'll speak about the Ten Commandments, particularly Thou Shalt Not Steal (the eighth, I think).

    He's just preparing his notes, running through the commandments, when he reaches the seventh, and remembers he left his bike elsewhere. The seventh, of course, being Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery...
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 15,212
    ydoethur said:

    He would be a less impressive version of May or Brown.

    God that is one of the most damning comments I have ever seen on here :)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 12,386

    Mr. Divvie, I know a joke about a cycling priest (it was one of several deliberately bad ones told by my Religious Studies teacher to help us remember stuff).

    A priest is cycling round his parish, visiting his flock, ahead of the service that evening. After emerging from a house, he can't find his bike, and decides he'll speak about the Ten Commandments, particularly Thou Shalt Not Steal (the eighth, I think).

    He's just preparing his notes, running through the commandments, when he reaches the seventh, and remembers he left his bike elsewhere. The seventh, of course, being Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery...

    Your RS teacher sounds a decent sort.
This discussion has been closed.