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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Pro-Brexit anti-Lords poll splashed by the Mail comes under fire for “loaded” questions

Leo Barasi, a regular with Keiran Pedley on the PB/Polling Matters Podcasts is no stranger to PBers and his is always worth listening to.

Read the full story here

Casino_Royale

First

JosiasJessop

As a house husband, second.

RobD

Thanks. Yeah, I think it was noted in the comments yesterday how leading some of the questions were.

Tissue_Price

It's a wonder that Trump didn't sign the letter Real Donald Trump.

Pulpstar

A massive and powerful fourth

RobD

Pulpstar said:

A massive and powerful fourth

I hope to God you never have to use your first.

TheKitchenCabinet

JosiasJessop said:

As a house husband, second.

Given Hemmling's comments, maybe you should change your Avatar to the Gimp from Pulp Fiction.

Morris_Dancer

FPT: Just on demographics, in 1300 England had about 5 million inhabitants. That collapsed to 2.5 million by 1400. Similar declines happened elsewhere.

Obviously the Black Death was a prime cause, but the numbers actually declined gradually but steadily before that anyway.

I think it took a couple of centuries to bounce back to the 1300 numbers. How history would've differed is an interesting thing to consider.

Mr. Divvie, could you let us know how far back grievances are allowed to go?

The Normans were responsible for a 75% reduction in Yorkshire's population from 1066 to 1086. How grumpy should I be?

Yes, kids, you've tuned into HistoricalDemography.com.

tlg86

I thought slagging off pollsters was a no no on this site?

rkrkrk

JosiasJessop said:

As a house husband, second.

Was sorry to read that nasty comment on the other thread.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. rkrkrk, just gone back to check, and quite agree with you.

RobD

tlg86 said:

I thought slagging off pollsters was a no no on this site?

If anyone goes on topic below the line they will be banned.

Fat chance of that happening though

CarlottaVance

tlg86 said:

I thought slagging off pollsters was a no no on this site?

Pollsters are generally pretty legit....the questions their clients get them to ask....and the order they are asked in is fair game....they usually exercise a moderating influence on the questions - and in fairness to this poll, I've seen a lot worse....

TheScreamingEagles

tlg86 said:

I thought slagging off pollsters was a no no on this site?

Criticising the methodology is fine, questioning the motive of the pollster is not.

MaxPB

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

I thought slagging off pollsters was a no no on this site?

Criticising the methodology is fine, questioning the motive of the pollster is not.

Pollster sure, but I think we should be free to question the motives of whoever commissioned the poll. This poll for the Mail being a pretty good example of it.

rottenborough

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

Pulpstar

TheScreamingEagles said:

tlg86 said:

I thought slagging off pollsters was a no no on this site?

Criticising the methodology is fine, questioning the motive of the pollster is not.

Surely the motive of pollsters is the same of the sex and legal industries... getting paid by their clients

MarkHopkins

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

Trying to betray Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways

corrected for you

CarlottaVance

Future UK participation in Galileo is a strategic choice which will have a permanent effect on our future defence and defence industrial collaboration;

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710790/FINAL_GALILEO.pdf

TheKitchenCabinet

rkrkrk said:

JosiasJessop said:

As a house husband, second.

Was sorry to read that nasty comment on the other thread.

It was indeed.

TheScreamingEagles

I’m not impacted by this but this is a shambles and heartbreaking for so many Liverpool fans.

https://twitter.com/anfieldhq/status/999662603789103105?s=21

MarkHopkins

CarlottaVance said:

Future UK participation in Galileo is a strategic choice which will have a permanent effect on our future defence and defence industrial collaboration;

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710790/FINAL_GALILEO.pdf

"This will not be straightforward, but the UK will enter these negotiations in good faith, and we do not believe there are any insurmountable challenges"

Does the EU acting like a-holes count as an insurmountable challenge?

Just asking.

CarlottaVance

JosiasJessop said:

As a house husband, second.

You do know that said everything about the poster and nothing about you, don't you?

Wear your badge with pride!

TheKitchenCabinet

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

If that is the case, then it will be the Lords' fault. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen what the reaction would be given their motions and their comments which were blatant in proclaiming "we know best and you are wrong".

tlg86

TheScreamingEagles said:

I’m not impacted by this but this is a shambles and heartbreaking for so many Liverpool fans.

https://twitter.com/anfieldhq/status/999662603789103105?s=21

Did this not happen in 2007?

I have a bad feeling about Saturday...

rkrkrk

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

AlastairMeeks

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

It's remarkable just how much Leavers hate Britain. There's barely any of it as it currently exists that they don't want to destroy.

CarlottaVance

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/999648543903240192

Benpointer

MarkHopkins said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

Trying to betray Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways

corrected for you

What, simply trying is enough to wreck the country? Bye-bye free speech then!

Toms

JosiasJessop said:

As a house husband, second.

You're OK man.
I was trying to describe that comment. For some reason the phrase "reflexively rebarbative" entered my brain. What the heck does that say about me I wonder.

JackW

"It would be wrong to thwart Mike Smithson's membership of the House of Lords."

Agree - 99.98%
Disagree - 0.02% (N. Farage)

TheScreamingEagles

tlg86 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I’m not impacted by this but this is a shambles and heartbreaking for so many Liverpool fans.

https://twitter.com/anfieldhq/status/999662603789103105?s=21

Did this not happen in 2007?

I have a bad feeling about Saturday...

The biggest issue with Athens was the piss poor turnstiles.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Meeks, generalisations are always wrong.

CarlottaVance

A report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies warns that all but two countries in Europe, the UK and France, are outspent by BAE, Lockheed Martin and Boeing when it comes to military research and development.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/iiss-report-three-defence-companies-each-spent-more-on-defence-rd-than-all-but-two-european-countries/

notme

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/999648543903240192

The game is afoot. Some have cottoned onto what it means to have an old fool style socialism that Corbyn etc are looking for. They're serious. Socialism in the form of state aid has slowly been wiped out sector by sector across the EU. It would be an irony for the nation that Thatcherised the whole of a continent to turn itself back into the sick man of Europe.

Tissue_Price

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

Who said anything about replacement?

rcs1000

Tissue_Price said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

Who said anything about replacement?

I prefer bicameralism myself, especially as - unusually in the UK - the legislature is also the executive.

RobD

Tissue_Price said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

Who said anything about replacement?

I believe the statement yesterday did say they would replace it.

MarkHopkins

JackW said:

"It would be wrong to thwart Mike Smithson's membership of the House of Lords."

Agree - 99.98%
Disagree - 0.02% (N. Farage)

That should be:

Agree - 10%
█████████████████████████

Disagree - 90%
████

TheScreamingEagles

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/999648543903240192

How is that taking back control?

CarlottaVance

He's tweeting....I'm sure mis-spelling Kim Jong Un's name will help...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/999667181083295744

Benpointer

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Meeks, generalisations are always wrong.

Very good

rkrkrk

Tissue_Price said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

Who said anything about replacement?

Jeremy Corbyn: “It is a democratic necessity to abolish the unelected and outdated House of Lords and replace it with an elected second chamber."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/23/all-future-labour-peers-must-back-abolition-of-lords-says-corbyn

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/999668634342559745

Morris_Dancer

Mr. P, should stand her in good stead in this constituency. When UKIP was riding high it got several thousand (I think) votes.

FrancisUrquhart

Oh shitty shit shit...stokes now out.

Benpointer

Surely it should be: “It would be wrong for the House of Lords to try to thwart Brexit."

Theuniondivvie

Morris_Dancer said:

FPT: Just on demographics, in 1300 England had about 5 million inhabitants. That collapsed to 2.5 million by 1400. Similar declines happened elsewhere.

Obviously the Black Death was a prime cause, but the numbers actually declined gradually but steadily before that anyway.

I think it took a couple of centuries to bounce back to the 1300 numbers. How history would've differed is an interesting thing to consider.

Mr. Divvie, could you let us know how far back grievances are allowed to go?

The Normans were responsible for a 75% reduction in Yorkshire's population from 1066 to 1086. How grumpy should I be?

Yes, kids, you've tuned into HistoricalDemography.com.

I certainly hold a grievance against folk who through ignorance or luddism refuse to use the quote system, particularly when it's a reply to a post not even on this thread.

Tissue_Price

rkrkrk said:

Tissue_Price said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

Who said anything about replacement?

Jeremy Corbyn: “It is a democratic necessity to abolish the unelected and outdated House of Lords and replace it with an elected second chamber."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/23/all-future-labour-peers-must-back-abolition-of-lords-says-corbyn

The NEC is elected, perhaps that would do for Corbyn.

TheKitchenCabinet

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. P, should stand her in good stead in this constituency. When UKIP was riding high it got several thousand (I think) votes.

May, when it comes to shove, is more likely to disappointment the likes of Clark, Morgan etc because, unlike the more hard-line Brexiteers, they cannot raise the numbers to challenge her.

FrancisUrquhart

And buttler gone....

Benpointer

CarlottaVance said:

He's tweeting....I'm sure mis-spelling Kim Jong Un's name will help...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/999667181083295744

"If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit..." Jeez!

FrancisUrquhart

Hope nobody day 4 tickets for the test, because you aren’t going to see anything.

AlastairMeeks

Correction of the day:

https://twitter.com/pressgazette/status/999641632889765888

Tissue_Price

rcs1000 said:

Tissue_Price said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

Who said anything about replacement?

I prefer bicameralism myself, especially as - unusually in the UK - the legislature is also the executive.

I agree in principle, but we have also developed a close-to-unicameral approach which commands broad public understanding and (I would argue) acceptance.

Replacement is a far more radical policy than abolition, though I expect vastly more column inches would be used on the abolition bit...

david_herdson

Tissue_Price said:

rkrkrk said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

I doubt very much that there could be any quick replacement of the House of Lords.
Labour don't even have a clear model in mind as far as I can tell. My guess would be some form of PR election, potentially with a different election period. They'll want Lib Dem support to get it through and if they are smart they'll try and get some Tories too for added legitimacy.

Who said anything about replacement?

The 1911 Parliament Act. This, from the Introductory Text:

"whereas it is intended to substitute for the House of Lords as it at present exists a Second Chamber constituted on a popular instead of hereditary basis, but such substitution cannot be immediately brought into operation"

107 years and counting ...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/1-2/13/contents

TheKitchenCabinet

Benpointer said:

CarlottaVance said:

He's tweeting....I'm sure mis-spelling Kim Jong Un's name will help...

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/999667181083295744

"If you change your mind having to do with this most important summit..." Jeez!

I think the real target of this might be China. One of the levers China had in their trade talks with Trump was their leverage over Kim. Pulling out unilaterally either says to China "sort your man out, or get him out" or "we have less reason to conciliate on trade"

AndyJS

IIRC the Daily Mail was singing the praises of the Lords when they were doing things like trying to block the ban on fox hunting a number of years ago. Opposing an institution just because they're not doing what you want at a particular point in time isn't very convincing.

rcs1000

TheScreamingEagles said:

I’m not impacted by this but this is a shambles and heartbreaking for so many Liverpool fans.

https://twitter.com/anfieldhq/status/999662603789103105?s=21

That's why I never fly commercial.

Pulpstar

AndyJS said:

IIRC the Daily Mail was singing the praises of the Lords when they were doing things like trying to block the ban on fox hunting a number of years ago. Opposing an institution just because they're not doing what you want at a particular point in time isn't very convincing.

Yep, and those opposed to it then are singing the praises now. It's a colossal waste of money in my view.

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Divvie, the eccentricity of the English is why those on the Autism Spectrum fare better here than in any other country. As such, I feel no need to alter my endearingly old-fashioned perspective, and shall withhold complimentary snuff from anyone who disagrees.

rcs1000

CarlottaVance said:

A report by the International Institute for Strategic Studies warns that all but two countries in Europe, the UK and France, are outspent by BAE, Lockheed Martin and Boeing when it comes to military research and development.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/iiss-report-three-defence-companies-each-spent-more-on-defence-rd-than-all-but-two-european-countries/

Given pretty much all military R&D is done by those three companies, then there is going to be a certain amount of inevitability about that. (Plus EADS.)

OldKingCole

AndyJS said:

IIRC the Daily Mail was singing the praises of the Lords when they were doing things like trying to block the ban on fox hunting a number of years ago. Opposing an institution just because they're not doing what you want at a particular point in time isn't very convincing.

What was the question in the Anschluss referendum that the Mail’s one-time friends asked?

For the sake of clarity, I’m all in favour of Lords reform, but not because of this. I suspect a properly reformed Second Chamber would do very much what the current HoL is doing now.

FrancisUrquhart

Embarrassingly shit by England.

David_Evershed

England collapse.

180 for 9

CarlottaVance

Quite a heroic rant.....

https://dominiccummings.com/2018/05/24/on-the-referendum-24j-collins-grandstanding-empty-threats-the-plan-for-a-rematch-against-the-public/

OldKingCole

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

Wait till Anderson and Broad run through the Pakistan top order before the close!


Clutches straw in hope!

AndyJS

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

Nice to know it's just a normal summer as far as the England cricket team is concerned.

FrancisUrquhart

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

It isnt like they are facing waqar, wasim, mushaq type attack.

JackW

England BREXIT for 184 ....

Gardenwalker

CarlottaVance said:

Quite a heroic rant.....

https://dominiccummings.com/2018/05/24/on-the-referendum-24j-collins-grandstanding-empty-threats-the-plan-for-a-rematch-against-the-public/

I see that David Davis has been added to the enemies of Brexit.

Is Cummings an outrider for Johnson/Gove?
I am up to the bit in Fall Out where they briefly considered putting the band back together after the disastrous 2017 election.

Tissue_Price

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

David_Evershed

OldKingCole said:

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

Wait till Anderson and Broad run through the Pakistan top order before the close!


Clutches straw in hope!

It's the hope that kills you.

OldKingCole

David_Evershed said:

OldKingCole said:

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

Wait till Anderson and Broad run through the Pakistan top order before the close!


Clutches straw in hope!

It's the hope that kills you.

I’m Essex; hope worked last year!
And no none of my female relations wore (or wear) white stilletos. We’re ‘old Essex’!

Stark_Dawning

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

Drop Cook NOW!

Pro_Rata

Tissue_Price said:

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

Prediction: there will be a very Brexitty northern constituency on this list, and Lab remain will edge Lab leave. With the way votes have moved since 2015, that will suggest a fairly large Lab remain majority existed at the previous election.

First up Maidenhead, apparently the constituency with the second largest Tory remain vote in the country. Lol.

Pulpstar

Tissue_Price said:

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

Richmond Park probably #1 for Tory remainers.

OldKingCole

Stark_Dawning said:

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

Drop Cook NOW!

Irony’s difficult to post.

FrancisUrquhart

I think the people Blowers runs into need the shades, not blowers...

https://twitter.com/henrymoeranBBC/status/999676482896220160

Pro_Rata

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

Richmond Park probably #1 for Tory remainers.

Riffing off Maidenhead: Beaconsfield?, Buckingham could've been a contender if not for the Speaker?, perhaps Henley

Pulpstar

Pro_Rata said:

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

Richmond Park probably #1 for Tory remainers.

Riffing off Maidenhead: Beaconsfield?, Buckingham could've been a contender if not for the Speaker?, perhaps Henley

It'll definitely be in the home counties or outer London.

JackW

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think the people Blowers runs into need the shades, not blowers...

https://twitter.com/henrymoeranBBC/status/999676482896220160

Bespoke tailoring and styling by TSE of Manchester ....

FrancisUrquhart

JackW said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think the people Blowers runs into need the shades, not blowers...

https://twitter.com/henrymoeranBBC/status/999676482896220160

Bespoke tailoring and styling by TSE of Manchester ....

Do they sell such attire in Primari?

Pulpstar

Actually looking back at my GE17 spreadsheet it might be Esher and Walton. Or possibly Hunt's constituency.

OldKingCole

JackW said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think the people Blowers runs into need the shades, not blowers...

https://twitter.com/henrymoeranBBC/status/999676482896220160

Bespoke tailoring and styling by TSE of Manchester ....

He’s visiting our local club soon, courtesy of the Lashings tourers.
Not totally sure we can afford the booze!

Tissue_Price

Pro_Rata said:

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

Richmond Park probably #1 for Tory remainers.

Riffing off Maidenhead: Beaconsfield?, Buckingham could've been a contender if not for the Speaker?, perhaps Henley

Hampshire North East imo. Or maybe Northamptonshire South.

Nigelb

David_Evershed said:

England collapse.

180 for 9

Thank heavens we played a 'specialist' number 7...

Nigelb

JackW said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think the people Blowers runs into need the shades, not blowers...

https://twitter.com/henrymoeranBBC/status/999676482896220160

Bespoke tailoring and styling by TSE of Manchester ....

Shoes are way too subdued.

not_on_fire

TheKitchenCabinet said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

If that is the case, then it will be the Lords' fault. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen what the reaction would be given their motions and their comments which were blatant in proclaiming "we know best and you are wrong".

They do know far more than the average person about what the Customs Union is

Pro_Rata

Tissue_Price said:

Pro_Rata said:

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

Richmond Park probably #1 for Tory remainers.

Riffing off Maidenhead: Beaconsfield?, Buckingham could've been a contender if not for the Speaker?, perhaps Henley

Hampshire North East imo. Or maybe Northamptonshire South.

I see your Northamptonshire South and raise you a North East Somerset

CarlottaVance

https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/999683021996371968

David_Evershed

not_on_fire said:

TheKitchenCabinet said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

If that is the case, then it will be the Lords' fault. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen what the reaction would be given their motions and their comments which were blatant in proclaiming "we know best and you are wrong".

They do know far more than the average person about what the Customs Union is

Since the Lords are mostly old, shouldn't they be Leave supporters?

JackW

OldKingCole said:

JackW said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think the people Blowers runs into need the shades, not blowers...

https://twitter.com/henrymoeranBBC/status/999676482896220160

Bespoke tailoring and styling by TSE of Manchester ....

He’s visiting our local club soon, courtesy of the Lashings tourers.
Not totally sure we can afford the booze!

I'd heard TSE can put it away ....

OldKingCole

Oh ye of little faith. Pakistan 12-1

Pulpstar

Pro_Rata said:

Tissue_Price said:

Pro_Rata said:

Pulpstar said:

Tissue_Price said:

Some good data from Ian Warren being dumped on Twitter now:
https://twitter.com/election_data/status/999675478465286144

Richmond Park probably #1 for Tory remainers.

Riffing off Maidenhead: Beaconsfield?, Buckingham could've been a contender if not for the Speaker?, perhaps Henley

Hampshire North East imo. Or maybe Northamptonshire South.

I see your Northamptonshire South and raise you a North East Somerset

Doubtful -

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19nmsiGcSCIGWDZJ-YJJYxAwracXkWi-_4jY22XsW_7k/edit#gid=743365475

Thats my very iffy method (Sheet S3 remain).

Doesn't scale by 2017 result or absolute vote where Leadsom possibly overtakes Hunt or something.

sarissa

Morris_Dancer said:

FPT: Just on demographics, in 1300 England had about 5 million inhabitants. That collapsed to 2.5 million by 1400. Similar declines happened elsewhere.

Obviously the Black Death was a prime cause, but the numbers actually declined gradually but steadily before that anyway.

I think it took a couple of centuries to bounce back to the 1300 numbers. How history would've differed is an interesting thing to consider.

Mr. Divvie, could you let us know how far back grievances are allowed to go?

The Normans were responsible for a 75% reduction in Yorkshire's population from 1066 to 1086. How grumpy should I be?

Yes, kids, you've tuned into HistoricalDemography.com.

Don't get me started on the "Rough Wooing" !

JosiasJessop

CarlottaVance said:

JosiasJessop said:

As a house husband, second.

You do know that said everything about the poster and nothing about you, don't you?

Wear your badge with pride!

Well, there's not a badge per se; just bags under my eyes, constant tiredness and frayed nerves ...

And that's only with one child, who is mostly well-behaved and (almost) always fun to be around. I look at the parents with three, four or more kids as superheroes ...

FrancisUrquhart

One minute he is ready for a love-in, next he is ready to hit the big red button...you have to presume it was more than Donald got out of the wrong side of the bed surely? Have little rocket man been up to something naughty?

The US president says he has spoken to Defense Secretary Jim Mattis and allied countries and they are "ready" should North Korea carry out "foolish acts".

He says he is "hopeful" that positive steps can be made but says that if not, "we are more ready than we have ever been before".

OldKingCole

JackW said:

OldKingCole said:

JackW said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

I think the people Blowers runs into need the shades, not blowers...

https://twitter.com/henrymoeranBBC/status/999676482896220160

Bespoke tailoring and styling by TSE of Manchester ....

He’s visiting our local club soon, courtesy of the Lashings tourers.
Not totally sure we can afford the booze!

I'd heard TSE can put it away ....

I thought it was against his religion? But he’d be very welcome. The beer tent at this game is excellent.

TheKitchenCabinet

not_on_fire said:

TheKitchenCabinet said:

rottenborough said:

The HoL was warned it was playing with fire on this one.

I predict one consequence of the inevitable 'betrayal' over Brexit will be a sustained, and eventually successful campaign by the Mail, to get rid of the Lords.

They'll be pushing at an open door once Corbyn is in. As my other prediction is that Labour will surprise on day one of taking office by announcing a quick review and abolition of the Lords and the replacement with something that Momentum feels is more democratic.

Brexit will wreck this country in so many ways.

If that is the case, then it will be the Lords' fault. Anyone with an ounce of common sense could have seen what the reaction would be given their motions and their comments which were blatant in proclaiming "we know best and you are wrong".

They do know far more than the average person about what the Customs Union is

There are ways and means of doing so. It is as if I went to my boss to disagree about a point. I could say "what about if we think about things this way?" or "you are a f**king idiot, this will be a disaster and I know right". The Lords are acting in the second way when they should be acting in the first.