The flames of possible treason charges are now lapping at the doors of Dominic Cummings (Vote Leave), Arron Banks (Leave.EU), and Michael Gove (who had Cummings as his spad for several years).
In the case of Banks, little could be more obvious than the man has it coming to him. Boris Johnson may soon feel the heat too. None of these four guys can take pressure well. Paul Dacre can take it, but he has resigned.
PS Is Isabel Oakeshott related to Walter Oakeshott?
Brexit seems to have been bankrolled by Putin, and pushed over the line by appeals to xenophobia and a brutally effective online propaganda effort.
The “will of the people” turns out to be another Brexit fraud.
Manipulated, very likely, but not a fraud. No one suggests that Putin interfered in the voting, either in Brexit, or in Trumpistan. Putin merely cleverly managed to support useful idiots willing to do his bidding.
The idea that the will of the people is behind Brexit and so we must do it, is a Brexit fraud.
Just like the NHS money, the ease of exit, the idea that BMW makers will come to our rescue, etc.
Brexit is a platform of lies, bankrolled (and propagandised) by Putin, and won only on the back of anti-immigrant sentiment.
Yes, I think probably about 20% of voters care about it very strongly at each poll, and the middle 60% are various degrees of apathy about it. They are probably correct to be more interested in the World Cup and Love Island, and to shrug off the incompetents at the wheel. They may well start to kick off if it really goes badly, but there isn't much real upside potential.
I was chatting to my visiting Aunt from Auckland btw the other day. She reckoned that housing was the issue that put Labour in power there. It beats me why house prices should be so crazy there, after all there is no shortage of land*. Why not just build? Is it just the low interest rates that have caused this worldwide real estate bubble, which seems true of Canada and Oz as well?
*Auckland is rather constrained by being on an isthmus of course.
While May and Hammond have been beyond lamentable in this negotiation, there is no doubt in my mind that Corbyn and McIRA would be worse. How would they square leaving the EU with being in a coalition with the SNP and their own rabid remainers.
I think moderate Tory MPs are now asking questions about the UK's fallback position in the event of a no deal and the answers from May and Hammond are pathetic. That is what will lead to their removal and replacement.
No 10/11 need to get on with WTO exit planning sooner rather than later or they will get forced out.
If May and Hammond go the government will fall and JCWBPM. The negotiations are going badly not because May is crap but because the hand is crap. There is a big majority among MPs and the public for a fairly soft Brexit - which would nicely reflect the close Referendum result. The idea that an ERG style no deal Brexit is feasible is laughable.
I didn't say that we should aim for a no deal Brexit, just that we need to prepare for it and the government aren't doing so. A lot of the reason we have a crap hand is because we have not done the hard work on "WTO exit" planning. The EU knows we have no fallback position which won't irreparably harm the economy so they have no need to give any ground. If the government had spent the last two years getting the UK's international trading position resolved, getting UK regulatory bodies recognised internationally and preparing for a much larger customs border for 70% more trade volume and beggining to work towards a customs pre-clearance/smart border infrastructure for key industries (same as the US/Canada border) the EU would be giving much more ground, especially on customs.
May and Hammond have failed to prepare the UK and for that a price needs to be paid.
The problem with that strategy is that No Deal is the worst possible "deal". Nothing the EU offers us will ever be as bad. Threatening the worst possible outcome for us would be silly. The EU would just say, come back when you are ready to talk. It won't take long.
The UK's BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) was to refuse to budge or cooperate until it got its way. That ship sailed with the A50 notification.
It depends on what your point of view on the worst possible outcome. You think it would be a well planned WTO exit, I think it would be a Hotel California exit to the customs union. I don't think we're ever going to agree on that so there is no point in taking this conversation any further.
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy..
Add to that multiple customs checks for Irish cargo transiting the British land bridge and some of their businesses are seriously screwed.
Nowhere near as much as it used to. We are Ireland's second largest export market, but at 15% rather than the 90% it was before joining the EEC. There are also now direct ferries from Dublin to Antwerp, including the new one nicknamed Brexit Buster:
It does seem as if the only country not preparing its ports for Brexit is our own one. While I agree incompetence is the likely cause, we should consider it a possibility that BINO will be forced by lack of preparation.
Not necessarily. One other possibility we should bear in mind is that the government can allow full free trade - no checks or tariffs on our side. Therefore, we could still in theory just allow EU traffic to move through freely. While they wouldn't help on the other side of the Channel, that would be France's/Holland's/Spain's problem. Indeed we had something like that arrangement for much of the nineteenth century.
The EU cannot, of course, under WTO rules, anent a proper FTA with Britain. They have to have customs checks. Otherwise, they have to abandon border controls with Russia, and that just ain't gonna happen. But the optics of it might be rather bad if their inept negotiating tactics lead to them imposing a one-way hard border in Ireland.
I think we would be mad to follow that course of action frankly, but after the last couple of years it would be silly to assume it won't happen just because our politicians would be batshit crazy to do it.
While May and Hammond have been beyond lamentable in this negotiation, there is no doubt in my mind that Corbyn and McIRA would be worse. How would they square leaving the EU with being in a coalition with the SNP and their own rabid remainers.
I think moderate Tory MPs are now asking questions about the UK's fallback position in the event of a no deal and the answers from May and Hammond are pathetic. That is what will lead to their removal and replacement.
No 10/11 need to get on with WTO exit planning sooner rather than later or they will get forced out.
If May and Hammond go the government will fall and JCWBPM. The negotiations are going badly not because May is crap but because the hand is crap. There is a big majority among MPs and the public for a fairly soft Brexit - which would nicely reflect the close Referendum result. The idea that an ERG style no deal Brexit is feasible is laughable.
I didn't say that we should aim for a no deal Brexit, just that we need to prepare for it and the government aren't doing so. A lot of the reason we have a crap hand is because we have not done the hard work on "WTO exit" planning. The EU knows we have no fallback position which won't irreparably harm the economy so they have no need to give any ground. If the government had spent the last two years getting the UK's international trading position resolved, getting UK regulatory bodies recognised internationally and preparing for a much larger customs border for 70% more trade volume and beggining to work towards a customs pre-clearance/smart border infrastructure for key industries (same as the US/Canada border) the EU would be giving much more ground, especially on customs.
May and Hammond have failed to prepare the UK and for that a price needs to be paid.
The problem with that strategy is that No Deal is the worst possible "deal". Nothing the EU offers us will ever be as bad. Threatening the worst possible outcome for us would be silly. The EU would just say, come back when you are ready to talk. It won't take long.
The UK's BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) was to refuse to budge or cooperate until it got its way. That ship sailed with the A50 notification.
It depends on what your point of view on the worst possible outcome. You think it would be a well planned WTO exit, I think it would be a Hotel California exit to the customs union. I don't think we're ever going to agree on that so there is no point in taking this conversation any further.
'No deal' and a well planned WTO exit are not the same thing at all. The latter isn't possible in the time available.
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy..
Add to that multiple customs checks for Irish cargo transiting the British land bridge and some of their businesses are seriously screwed.
Nowhere near as much as it used to. We are Ireland's second largest export market, but at 15% rather than the 90% it was before joining the EEC. There are also now direct ferries from Dublin to Antwerp, including the new one nicknamed Brexit Buster:
It does seem as if the only country not preparing its ports for Brexit is our own one. While I agree incompetence is the likely cause, we should consider it a possibility that BINO will be forced by lack of preparation.
Not necessarily. One other possibility we should bear in mind is that the government can allow full free trade - no checks or tariffs on our side. Therefore, we could still in theory just allow EU traffic to move through freely. While they wouldn't help on the other side of the Channel, that would be France's/Holland's/Spain's problem. Indeed we had something like that arrangement for much of the nineteenth century.
The EU cannot, of course, under WTO rules, anent a proper FTA with Britain. They have to have customs checks. Otherwise, they have to abandon border controls with Russia, and that just ain't gonna happen. But the optics of it might be rather bad if their inept negotiating tactics lead to them imposing a one-way hard border in Ireland.
I think we would be mad to follow that course of action frankly, but after the last couple of years it would be silly to assume it won't happen just because our politicians would be batshit crazy to do it.
Has anyone actually run the figures on allowing untrammelled free trade ?
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
"Let's not get carried away with the thought that everyone around Boston would be earning shedloads more if it weren't for the immigration - unskilled manual labour on the land is always likely to command only very low pay."
And Labour are not on their side. Did the Tolpuddle Martyrs die in vain? Perhaps the Lincolnshire lot are the wrong sort of agricultural labourers?
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy..
Add to that multiple customs checks for Irish cargo transiting the British land bridge and some of their businesses are seriously screwed.
Nowhere near as much as it used to. We are Ireland's second largest export market, but at 15% rather than the 90% it was before joining the EEC. There are also now direct ferries from Dublin to Antwerp, including the new one nicknamed Brexit Buster:
It does seem as if the only country not preparing its ports for Brexit is our own one. While I agree incompetence is the likely cause, we should consider it a possibility that BINO will be forced by lack of preparation.
Not necessarily. One other possibility we should bear in mind is that the government can allow full free trade - no checks or tariffs on our side. Therefore, we could still in theory just allow EU traffic to move through freely. While they wouldn't help on the other side of the Channel, that would be France's/Holland's/Spain's problem. Indeed we had something like that arrangement for much of the nineteenth century.
The EU cannot, of course, under WTO rules, anent a proper FTA with Britain. They have to have customs checks. Otherwise, they have to abandon border controls with Russia, and that just ain't gonna happen. But the optics of it might be rather bad if their inept negotiating tactics lead to them imposing a one-way hard border in Ireland.
I think we would be mad to follow that course of action frankly, but after the last couple of years it would be silly to assume it won't happen just because our politicians would be batshit crazy to do it.
Has anyone actually run the figures on allowing untrammelled free trade ?
It would be an ‘interesting’ experiment.
Well, the consequence in the early twentieth century (when, and I am not kidding, Free Trade was a religious belief more than an economic policy) was to drive many key British industries to the brink of bankruptcy. When it was maintained after World War One with a minor modification from 1915, the result was years of under-capitalisation for heavy industry, especially cotton, steel and coal, followed by bankruptcies and unemployment when the Second Great Depression hit in 1930-31.
This is why it shouldn't happen, but it's looking as though that's the way we're headed.
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy. The trade is hugely South-North not the other way. The British government should grow a spine and remind the EU and indeed the Irish government about that fact. As for the putting peace at risk its a load of balls, we are no longer in a peace process, its politics, as screwed up as it is. If you continue to treat it as some kind of fragile object then you only encourage this idea that either side (both sides Nick Palmer, are still capable), rather than making it clear that they needn't bother their holes. We've blown up the border issue way beyond its consequences in practice for UK territory and in doing so, have tied the thing in knots. To those who think that the Brexit issue will lead to some kind of large realignment in NI politics, it won't. I know this may come as shock to the middle class fools that are the commentariat, but nationality will dominate that artificial construct of the EU every single time.
[...]
Your point about the Northern Irish backstop may or not have merit but it's there because it's important to the Irish. Either the UK convinces Ireland it's a bad idea or it will sign up to the backstop. "Making it clear they needn't bother" and "load of balls" isn't language that wins arguments and gets people to change their minds.
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy..
Add to that multiple customs checks for Irish cargo transiting the British land bridge and some of their businesses are seriously screwed.
Nowhere near as much as it used to. We are Ireland's second largest export market, but at 15% rather than the 90% it was before joining the EEC. There are also now direct ferries from Dublin to Antwerp, including the new one nicknamed Brexit Buster:
It does seem as if the only country not preparing its ports for Brexit is our own one. While I agree incompetence is the likely cause, we should consider it a possibility that BINO will be forced by lack of preparation.
Not necessarily. One other possibility we should bear in mind is that the government can allow full free trade - no checks or tariffs on our side. Therefore, we could still in theory just allow EU traffic to move through freely. While they wouldn't help on the other side of the Channel, that would be France's/Holland's/Spain's problem. Indeed we had something like that arrangement for much of the nineteenth century.
The EU cannot, of course, under WTO rules, anent a proper FTA with Britain. They have to have customs checks. Otherwise, they have to abandon border controls with Russia, and that just ain't gonna happen. But the optics of it might be rather bad if their inept negotiating tactics lead to them imposing a one-way hard border in Ireland.
I think we would be mad to follow that course of action frankly, but after the last couple of years it would be silly to assume it won't happen just because our politicians would be batshit crazy to do it.
Has anyone actually run the figures on allowing untrammelled free trade ?
It would be an ‘interesting’ experiment.
Well, the consequence in the early twentieth century (when, and I am not kidding, Free Trade was a religious belief more than an economic policy) was to drive many key British industries to the brink of bankruptcy. When it was maintained after World War One with a minor modification from 1915, the result was years of under-capitalisation for heavy industry, especially cotton, steel and coal, followed by bankruptcies and unemployment when the Second Great Depression hit in 1930-31.
This is why it shouldn't happen, but it's looking as though that's the way we're headed.
Wasn't the Great Depression made worse by protectionism?
Well, the consequence in the early twentieth century (when, and I am not kidding, Free Trade was a religious belief more than an economic policy) was to drive many key British industries to the brink of bankruptcy. When it was maintained after World War One with a minor modification from 1915, the result was years of under-capitalisation for heavy industry, especially cotton, steel and coal, followed by bankruptcies and unemployment when the Second Great Depression hit in 1930-31.
This is why it shouldn't happen, but it's looking as though that's the way we're headed.
Come to think of it, didn't Hammond once threaten to turn Britain into 'the Singapore of Europe' if the EU refused to negotiate in good faith? As I recall, it was very negatively received with the EU shrieking even more loudly than usual about bullying and nasty politicians making threats.
But perhaps that is quietly the line the government is taking in the event of no deal, the odds of which have risen substantially this week. In the short term at least it would be the quicker, easier and simpler option, whatever the long-term consequences.
The flames of possible treason charges are now lapping at the doors of Dominic Cummings (Vote Leave), Arron Banks (Leave.EU), and Michael Gove (who had Cummings as his spad for several years).
In the case of Banks, little could be more obvious than the man has it coming to him. Boris Johnson may soon feel the heat too. None of these four guys can take pressure well. Paul Dacre can take it, but he has resigned.
PS Is Isabel Oakeshott related to Walter Oakeshott?
Brexit seems to have been bankrolled by Putin, and pushed over the line by appeals to xenophobia and a brutally effective online propaganda effort.
The “will of the people” turns out to be another Brexit fraud.
Manipulated, very likely, but not a fraud. No one suggests that Putin interfered in the voting, either in Brexit, or in Trumpistan. Putin merely cleverly managed to support useful idiots willing to do his bidding.
The idea that the will of the people is behind Brexit and so we must do it, is a Brexit fraud.
Just like the NHS money, the ease of exit, the idea that BMW makers will come to our rescue, etc.
Brexit is a platform of lies, bankrolled (and propagandised) by Putin, and won only on the back of anti-immigrant sentiment.
— Snip —
I was chatting to my visiting Aunt from Auckland btw the other day. She reckoned that housing was the issue that put Labour in power there. It beats me why house prices should be so crazy there, after all there is no shortage of land*. Why not just build? Is it just the low interest rates that have caused this worldwide real estate bubble, which seems true of Canada and Oz as well?
*Auckland is rather constrained by being on an isthmus of course.
Auckland is already quite sprawling, far beyond the central isthmus, and policy has been to constrain the limits of development - so land is scarce.
Beyond that, though, it’s about capital chasing returns, including foreign capital; the tax advantages of property ownership (no inheritance tax, no capital gains tax); high immigration.
House prices are now levelling off, if not declining in Auckland.
Wasn't the Great Depression made worse by protectionism?
No. Or at least, it's doubtful that the fairly limited forms of protectionism that the UK introduced had any significant further impact. You should remember that whatever is now claimed by people who want to draw a political lesson, in the 1920s protectionism was widespread in world trade and had been since the 1870s. David Blackbourn I think pointed out that the only major nation that didn't practice it in the late nineteenth century was the UK (in which he wasn't quite correct as it was also true of Italy).
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy..
Add to that multiple customs checks for Irish cargo transiting the British land bridge and some of their businesses are seriously screwed.
Nowhere near as much as it used to. We are Ireland's second largest export market, but at 15% rather than the 90% it was before joining the EEC. There are also now direct ferries from Dublin to Antwerp, including the new one nicknamed Brexit Buster:
It does seem as if the only country not preparing its ports for Brexit is our own one. While I agree incompetence is the likely cause, we should consider it a possibility that BINO will be forced by lack of preparation.
Not necessarily. One other possibility we should bear in mind is that the government can allow full free trade - no checks or tariffs on our side. Therefore, we could still in theory just allow EU traffic to move through freely. While they wouldn't help on the other side of the Channel, that would be France's/Holland's/Spain's problem. Indeed we had something like that arrangement for much of the nineteenth century.
The EU cannot, of course, under WTO rules, anent a proper FTA with Britain. They have to have customs checks. Otherwise, they have to abandon border controls with Russia, and that just ain't gonna happen. But the optics of it might be rather bad if their inept negotiating tactics lead to them imposing a one-way hard border in Ireland.
I think we would be mad to follow that course of action frankly, but after the last couple of years it would be silly to assume it won't happen just because our politicians would be batshit crazy to do it.
Has anyone actually run the figures on allowing untrammelled free trade ?
It would be an ‘interesting’ experiment.
Patrick Minford, who is the nearest thing Brexit has to an in-house economist, advocates untrammelled free trade.
He concedes this would mean the elimination of all manufacturing but suggests it would be worth it. To tackle the inevitable regional issues, he also advocates simply closing down the “North” so that people can move to more productive cities.
While May and Hammond have been beyond lamentable in this negotiation, there is no doubt in my mind that Corbyn and McIRA would be worse. How would they square leaving the EU with being in a coalition with the SNP and their own rabid remainers. ... replacement.
No 10/11 need to get on with WTO exit planning sooner rather than later or they will get forced out.
If May and Hammond go the government will fall and JCWBPM. The negotiations are going badly not because May is crap but because the hand is crap. There is a big majority among MPs and the public for a fairly soft Brexit - which would nicely reflect the close Referendum result. The idea that an ERG style no deal Brexit is feasible is laughable.
I didn't say that we should aim for a no deal Brexit, just that we need to prepare for it and the government aren't doing so. A lot of the reason we have a crap hand is because we have not done the hard work on "WTO exit" planning. The EU knows we have no fallback position which won't irreparably harm the economy so they have no need to give any ground. If the government had spent the last two years getting the UK's international trading position resolved, getting UK regulatory bodies recognised internationally and preparing for a much larger customs border for 70% more trade volume and beggining to work towards a customs pre-clearance/smart border infrastructure for key industries (same as the US/Canada border) the EU would be giving much more ground, especially on customs.
May and Hammond have failed to prepare the UK and for that a price needs to be paid.
The problem with that strategy is that No Deal is the worst possible "deal". Nothing the EU offers us will ever be as bad. Threatening the worst possible outcome for us would be silly. The EU would just say, come back when you are ready to talk. It won't take long.
The UK's BATNA (best alternative to negotiated agreement) was to refuse to budge or cooperate until it got its way. That ship sailed with the A50 notification.
It depends on what your point of view on the worst possible outcome. You think it would be a well planned WTO exit, I think it would be a Hotel California exit to the customs union. I don't think we're ever going to agree on that so there is no point in taking this conversation any further.
I am saying it doesn't work as a negotiating tactic, which is almost certainly why May's team hasn't gone down that route. No deal is no deal. It isn't a well planned exit, which requires EU agreement and cooperation. A minimal agreement might be acceptable to some, but that's different.
It was obvious before the referendum that Russia was pushing Brexit. We are only seeing the dots being joined up now.
The site’s Leavers are being awfully quiet on this subject this morning.
I am surprised at the xenophobic nature of your comments regarding Russia.
Even if I do not approve of Putin, I certainly don’t tar the whole of the Russian people with the same brush.
Russia occupied a region (the Crimea) that is ethnically predominantly Russian. It was only removed from Russain and joined to the Ukraine by Stalin in 1954.
It would have been better to have held a plebiscite under the auspices on an international body, but there is no evidence that the Ukraine Government was willing to permit one. No-one has any real doubt that a plebiscite would have confirmed the desire of the majority of the Crimean population for Russian rule.
For this, Russia has been punished out of all proportion. The one good thing about Trump is that he has not embarked on the truly disastrous policies that Hillary Clinton was advocating in the region.
Russophobia is the commonest form of xenophobia.
What has Crimea and Hillary Clinton got to do with Putin bankrolling Brexit?
I must admit, I wan’t aware that your job was to monitor the contents of the blog, reprimanding individuals when they stray from the Gardenwalker tunes. I thought we were allowed to roam freely.
Still, as you are here, perhaps can we have a source for your claim about FDI, and perhaps you could properly normalise it so that we can see that it is specific to the UK. I think your claim has been efficiently debunked as Gardenbluster, but let’s have it completely dismembered.
Russophobia is the irrational hatred of Russians.
There is evidence of many external politicians intervening in the Brexit debate (most prominently Barack Obama).
I am worried that Alistair has just singled out just Russia as a malign force ... Russophobia.
It is fine to criticise one and all in an even-handed way, but that isn’t what is being done.
And I am showing that Russophobia is very common in the Remainer mindset by giving the example of the Crimea. The reaction of the EU to the secession of Crimea from the Ukraine was very different to the secession of Slovenia from Yugoslovai.
Ukraine, four legs, good. Yugoslavia, two legs, bad.
No, you're saying that Russophobia is very common in the Remainer mindset, not showing it.
You started out by defining Russophobia (fine but not proof), then went into whataboutery when you stated that Alistair had solely criticised Russia (without offering proof) then threw in a nonsequitur (EU reaction to Slovenia different to Crimea, but EU is not a Remainer). That's not an argument.
The flames of possible treason charges are now lapping at the doors of Dominic Cummings (Vote Leave), Arron Banks (Leave.EU), and Michael Gove (who had Cummings as his spad for several years).
In the case of Banks, little could be more obvious than the man has it coming to him. Boris Johnson may soon feel the heat too. None of these four guys can take pressure well. Paul Dacre can take it, but he has resigned.
PS Is Isabel Oakeshott related to Walter Oakeshott?
Brexit seems to have been bankrolled by Putin, and pushed over the line by appeals to xenophobia and a brutally effective online propaganda effort.
The “will of the people” turns out to be another Brexit fraud.
Manipulated, very likely, but not a fraud. No one suggests that Putin interfered in the voting, either in Brexit, or in Trumpistan. Putin merely cleverly managed to support useful idiots willing to do his bidding.
The idea that the will of the people is behind Brexit and so we must do it, is a Brexit fraud.
Just like the NHS money, the ease of exit, the idea that BMW makers will come to our rescue, etc.
Brexit is a platform of lies, bankrolled (and propagandised) by Putin, and won only on the back of anti-immigrant sentiment.
— Snip —
I was chatting to my visiting Aunt from Auckland btw the other day. She reckoned that housing was the issue that put Labour in power there. It beats me why house prices should be so crazy there, after all there is no shortage of land*. Why not just build? Is it just the low interest rates that have caused this worldwide real estate bubble, which seems true of Canada and Oz as well?
*Auckland is rather constrained by being on an isthmus of course.
Auckland is already quite sprawling, far beyond the central isthmus, and policy has been to constrain the limits of development - so land is scarce.
Beyond that, though, it’s about capital chasing returns, including foreign capital; the tax advantages of property ownership (no inheritance tax, no capital gains tax); high immigration.
House prices are now levelling off, if not declining in Auckland.
Yes, she mentioned immigration as a factor, it sounds as if Auckland has doubled in population since I lived in Christchurch in 1990. Even so NZ must have plenty of land free around other cities.
The flames of possible treason charges are now lapping at the doors of Dominic Cummings (Vote Leave), Arron Banks (Leave.EU), and Michael Gove (who had Cummings as his spad for several years).
In the case of Banks, little could be more obvious than the man has it coming to him. Boris Johnson may soon feel the heat too. None of these four guys can take pressure well. Paul Dacre can take it, but he has resigned.
PS Is Isabel Oakeshott related to Walter Oakeshott?
Brexit seems to have been bankrolled by Putin, and pushed over the line by appeals to xenophobia and a brutally effective online propaganda effort.
The “will of the people” turns out to be another Brexit fraud.
Manipulated, very likely, but not a fraud. No one suggests that Putin interfered in the voting, either in Brexit, or in Trumpistan. Putin merely cleverly managed to support useful idiots willing to do his bidding.
The idea that the will of the people is behind Brexit and so we must do it, is a Brexit fraud.
Just like the NHS money, the ease of exit, the idea that BMW makers will come to our rescue, etc.
Brexit is a platform of lies, bankrolled (and propagandised) by Putin, and won only on the back of anti-immigrant sentiment.
I cant work out which stage you are at. Is it Denial or Anger? Eventually you will reach Acceptance. But it might take time.
I was a luke warm voter for Brexit, but seeing all this thrashing around in outrage by so many makes it all worth while. Over and over again. A Brexit Bonus dividend I wasnt expecting.
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy. The trade is hugely South-North not the other way. The British government should grow a spine and remind the EU and indeed the Irish government about that fact. As for the putting peace at risk its a load of balls, we are no longer in a peace process, its politics, as screwed up as it is. If you continue to treat it as some kind of fragile object then you only encourage this idea that either side (both sides Nick Palmer, are still capable), rather than making it clear that they needn't bother their holes. We've blown up the border issue way beyond its consequences in practice for UK territory and in doing so, have tied the thing in knots. To those who think that the Brexit issue will lead to some kind of large realignment in NI politics, it won't. I know this may come as shock to the middle class fools that are the commentariat, but nationality will dominate that artificial construct of the EU every single time.
[...]
Your point about the Northern Irish backstop may or not have merit but it's there because it's important to the Irish. Either the UK convinces Ireland it's a bad idea or it will sign up to the backstop. "Making it clear they needn't bother" and "load of balls" isn't language that wins arguments and gets people to change their minds.
People talk about the Conservative Brexiteer tail wagging the government. The Irish border issue is the tail wagging the overall process. Its important but its not ccentral and if the EU wanted (it doesn't because its a handy stick) to tell Ireland it needs to take a hit it can do that.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
The truth is its the Irish economy that threatens to take the hit, not the NI economy. The trade is hugely South-North not the other way. The British government should grow a spine and remind the EU and indeed the Irish government about that fact. As for the putting peace at risk its a load of balls, we are no longer in a peace process, its politics, as screwed up as it is. If you continue to treat it as some kind of fragile object then you only encourage this idea that either side (both sides Nick Palmer, are still capable), rather than making it clear that they needn't bother their holes. We've blown up the border issue way beyond its consequences in practice for UK territory and in doing so, have tied the thing in knots. To those who think that the Brexit issue will lead to some kind of large realignment in NI politics, it won't. I know this may come as shock to the middle class fools that are the commentariat, but nationality will dominate that artificial construct of the EU every single time.
[...]
Your point about the Northern Irish backstop may or not have merit but it's there because it's important to the Irish. Either the UK convinces Ireland it's a bad idea or it will sign up to the backstop. "Making it clear they needn't bother" and "load of balls" isn't language that wins arguments and gets people to change their minds.
People talk about the Conservative Brexiteer tail wagging the government. The Irish border issue is the tail wagging the overall process. Its important but its not ccentral and if the EU wanted (it doesn't because its a handy stick) to tell Ireland it needs to take a hit it can do that.
The EU could tell the Irish to take a hit. It chooses not to because this is important to Ireland and because it thinks the UK will sign up to the backstop. It may think this is less important to the UK than to the Irish and in any case the EU represents Irish interests, not UK ones. The UK's best chance to get the backstop removed - because it is actually important to the UK and isn't the tail wagging the dog, as it were - is to convince the Irish it's a, bad idea.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Could be. The battle between the EU and Trump may put Brexit in the shade in its global impact.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Same reason as Trump: He's a politician and he wants to get votes, and to get votes he has to get attention. Trump is unpopular with voters across the EU, and his tweet taking the piss out of him is getting lots of RTs, so he's winning.
The flames of possible treason charges are now lapping at the doors of Dominic Cummings (Vote Leave), Arron Banks (Leave.EU), and Michael Gove (who had Cummings as his spad for several years).
In the case of Banks, little could be more obvious than the man has it coming to him. Boris Johnson may soon feel the heat too. None of these four guys can take pressure well. Paul Dacre can take it, but he has resigned.
PS Is Isabel Oakeshott related to Walter Oakeshott?
Brexit seems to have been bankrolled by Putin, and pushed over the line by appeals to xenophobia and a brutally effective online propaganda effort.
The “will of the people” turns out to be another Brexit fraud.
Manipulated, very likely, but not a fraud. No one suggests that Putin interfered in the voting, either in Brexit, or in Trumpistan. Putin merely cleverly managed to support useful idiots willing to do his bidding.
The idea that the will of the people is behind Brexit and so we must do it, is a Brexit fraud.
Just like the NHS money, the ease of exit, the idea that BMW makers will come to our rescue, etc.
Brexit is a platform of lies, bankrolled (and propagandised) by Putin, and won only on the back of anti-immigrant sentiment.
I cant work out which stage you are at. Is it Denial or Anger? Eventually you will reach Acceptance. But it might take time.
I was a luke warm voter for Brexit, but seeing all this thrashing around in outrage by so many makes it all worth while. Over and over again. A Brexit Bonus dividend I wasnt expecting.
Very much like a toddler doing a tantrum.
Dunno. What stage are you at? Useful idiot, racist, or just vegetative?
To be fair to the great majority of Remainers, they may retain their original opinion but they reluctantly accept the result. It's only the real gobby ones who have a tantrum and embarrass themselves on social media.
Best not provoke them - they're still in denial, but they will recover.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Verhofstadt is well within his rights.
Trump is an orange dotard, who reneges on deals and seeks to humiliate all around him - friend or foe.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Same reason as Trump: He's a politician and he wants to get votes, and to get votes he has to get attention. Trump is unpopular with voters across the EU, and his tweet taking the piss out of him is getting lots of RTs, so he's winning.
Except Verhofstadt is not in practice elected, so it doesn't matter much to him. Unless he's trying to set up the EU as the 'us' part of 'them against us,' which would make sense given his strongly pro-federalist views, but even so I think there are better ways to attain it.
OT. Yesterday I stopped at the Welsh seaside town of Penmaenmawr for a coffee. My travelling companion asked the waitress for an expresso. 'An expresso?'
I realised immediately that this wasn't a problem with pronunciation but my companion didn't 'Yes please an e-x-p-r-e-s-s-o'.
'A small coffee without milk' I added helpfully. 'We don't do SMALL coffees without milk' she said with a hint of ridicule. 'We do white coffee or black coffee or Cafetiere but that'll cost you an extra 50p'
Lovely part of N Wales, spoiled by the A55 splitting villages in two. I was never brought up in the medium of Welsh and I have been surprised yet gratified at the way young people, particularly in that part of the world are able to speak and understand both English and Welsh equally well, so I am not surprised that the waitress took umbrage.
I suppose if Roger asked for Gentlemens' Relish the poor dear simple creature wouldn't know what he was talking about.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Verhofstadt is well within his rights.
Trump is an orange dotard, who reneges on deals and seeks to humiliate all around him - friend or foe.
I'm not disputing he's within his rights, but that doesn't make him right to do it. For example, May would be within her rights to nuke Moscow, but I will confess I'm hoping she doesn't.
I would ask one question. What have you got against orange dotards? Your continued comparison of them to Trump seems pretty harsh.
OT. Yesterday I stopped at the Welsh seaside town of Penmaenmawr for a coffee. My travelling companion asked the waitress for an expresso. 'An expresso?'
I realised immediately that this wasn't a problem with pronunciation but my companion didn't 'Yes please an e-x-p-r-e-s-s-o'.
'A small coffee without milk' I added helpfully. 'We don't do SMALL coffees without milk' she said with a hint of ridicule. 'We do white coffee or black coffee or Cafetiere but that'll cost you an extra 50p'
Lovely part of N Wales, spoiled by the A55 splitting villages in two. I was never brought up in the medium of Welsh and I have been surprised yet gratified at the way young people, particularly in that part of the world are able to speak and understand both English and Welsh equally well, so I am not surprised that the waitress took umbrage.
I suppose if Roger asked for Gentlemens' Relish the poor dear simple creature wouldn't know what he was talking about.
I think if he'd asked for that Roger would have been the one stripped naked and tied to a lamppost, and while all his money would undoubtedly have disappeared I doubt if he would have got any services with or without milk in exchange!
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
I would say it is very like him. Both he and Trump are narcissuses.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
I would say it is very like him. Both he and Trump are narcissuses.
Is that an autocorrect error or are you saying that he and Trump are both plant life?
Brexit makes us less popular (or rather, relevant) with everyone, and whether Trump says one thing or another is irrelevant. He named Justin, for example, then tweeted that he was a liar. May probably got off lightly.
Trump is the biggest reason we need of why we should remain in the EU or at the very least as close as possibly possible to the EU if Brexit ever happens.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
I would say it is very like him. Both he and Trump are narcissuses.
Is that an autocorrect error or are you saying that he and Trump are both plant life?
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Verhofstadt is well within his rights.
Trump is an orange dotard, who reneges on deals and seeks to humiliate all around him - friend or foe.
That was a mighty impressive innings from Calum Macleod. However, England do have considerable firepower right down to no. 10 and I think they will feel this is gettable.
Am I the only person who thinks a bowler averaging 41 after 12 tests and 47 after 28 ODIs already in his late twenties with a long injury history isn't really an international standard bowler, rather someone who should be discarded?
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Verhofstadt is well within his rights.
Trump is an orange dotard, who reneges on deals and seeks to humiliate all around him - friend or foe.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Verhofstadt is well within his rights.
Trump is an orange dotard, who reneges on deals and seeks to humiliate all around him - friend or foe.
Remind me, who elected Guy?
He was first elected to the Belgian parliament in 1985, ultimately serving as Prime Minister.
In 2008 he was first elected to the European Parliament, and was named leader of the Liberal and Democrats grouping (which includes the Liberal Democrats).
So, quite a few people. And for quite a long time, too.
No, you're saying that Russophobia is very common in the Remainer mindset, not showing it.
You started out by defining Russophobia (fine but not proof), then went into whataboutery when you stated that Alistair had solely criticised Russia (without offering proof) then threw in a nonsequitur (EU reaction to Slovenia different to Crimea, but EU is not a Remainer). That's not an argument.
No. What I object to is Meeks criticising Russia when he means Putin.
That is Russophobia.
I don’t criticise France or the French if I object to Le Pen.
No, you're saying that Russophobia is very common in the Remainer mindset, not showing it.
You started out by defining Russophobia (fine but not proof), then went into whataboutery when you stated that Alistair had solely criticised Russia (without offering proof) then threw in a nonsequitur (EU reaction to Slovenia different to Crimea, but EU is not a Remainer). That's not an argument.
No. What I object to is Meeks criticising Russia when he means Putin.
That is Russophobia.
I don’t criticise France or the French if I object to Le Pen.
We see metonymy. You come up with garbage about Russophobia and then promise us an invasion of the Donbass.
You’re hardly likely to criticise Le Pen anyway, so your example is moot.
No, you're saying that Russophobia is very common in the Remainer mindset, not showing it.
You started out by defining Russophobia (fine but not proof), then went into whataboutery when you stated that Alistair had solely criticised Russia (without offering proof) then threw in a nonsequitur (EU reaction to Slovenia different to Crimea, but EU is not a Remainer). That's not an argument.
No. What I object to is Meeks criticising Russia when he means Putin.
That is Russophobia.
I don’t criticise France or the French if I object to Le Pen.
We see metonymy. You come up with garbage about Russophobia and then promise us an invasion of the Donbass.
You’re hardly likely to criticise Le Pen anyway, so your example is moot.
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Same reason as Trump: He's a politician and he wants to get votes, and to get votes he has to get attention. Trump is unpopular with voters across the EU, and his tweet taking the piss out of him is getting lots of RTs, so he's winning.
Except Verhofstadt is not in practice elected, so it doesn't matter much to him. Unless he's trying to set up the EU as the 'us' part of 'them against us,' which would make sense given his strongly pro-federalist views, but even so I think there are better ways to attain it.
Yes he is, he's the leader of ALDE and wants them to get more votes.
So have any of our Remainers got anything to say now about FDI after their claims disintegrated in the last thread.
Namely that the fall in FDI from 2016 to 2017 was because in 2016 a couple of big multinational businesses registered in Britain were sold to multinational businesses registered in other countries.
And that business investment and gross fixed capital formation increased in 2017.
Nice attempt at a deflection there, what we Remainers are more nterested in at the moment is the Leavers' views on the stuff that's all over the Sunday Papers re Russian involvement in the referendum campaign. Any thoughts? Let me hazard a wild guess - "fake news"!
It was Gardenwalker who started talking about FDI yesterday.
But I see its an issue where the facts are inconvenient for you.
The flames of possible treason charges are now lapping at the doors of Dominic Cummings (Vote Leave), Arron Banks (Leave.EU), and Michael Gove (who had Cummings as his spad for several years).
In the case of Banks, little could be more obvious than the man has it coming to him. Boris Johnson may soon feel the heat too. None of these four guys can take pressure well. Paul Dacre can take it, but he has resigned.
PS Is Isabel Oakeshott related to Walter Oakeshott?
Brexit seems to have been bankrolled by Putin, and pushed over the line by appeals to xenophobia and a brutally effective online propaganda effort.
The “will of the people” turns out to be another Brexit fraud.
Manipulated, very likely, but not a fraud. No one suggests that Putin interfered in the voting, either in Brexit, or in Trumpistan. Putin merely cleverly managed to support useful idiots willing to do his bidding.
The idea that the will of the people is behind Brexit and so we must do it, is a Brexit fraud.
Just like the NHS money, the ease of exit, the idea that BMW makers will come to our rescue, etc.
Brexit is a platform of lies, bankrolled (and propagandised) by Putin, and won only on the back of anti-immigrant sentiment.
I cant work out which stage you are at. Is it Denial or Anger? Eventually you will reach Acceptance. But it might take time.
I was a luke warm voter for Brexit, but seeing all this thrashing around in outrage by so many makes it all worth while. Over and over again. A Brexit Bonus dividend I wasnt expecting.
Very much like a toddler doing a tantrum.
Dunno. What stage are you at? Useful idiot, racist, or just vegetative?
That escalated quickly. I'll settle for being on the right side of history. I'm a big fan of Creative Destruction. Brexit has smoked out much of our establishment. They cant cope. It's wonderful. Seeing Adonis and people like A C Grayling with their frenzy (and as captured on film) dabbling in wanting us all to be punished for voting the wrong way exposes them for who they are.
Utterly delicious. I've not has as much fun for some time.
I am beginning to understand why some MPs lose their seats ...............
I wonder whether Nick Palmer realises that a major reason why Remain lost the referendum in 2016 was because -unlike in 1975 -we did not have an opposition leader prepared to vigorously make the case for UK membership of the EU -indeed Corbyn has been a longstanding opponent of the EU. Why isnt he speaking out against Corbyn who did more for the Leave campaign than anyone save Farage.
I dont suppose he sees at all how undemocratic he sounds when he advocates that "we stay largely within the EU orbit" when a majority of voters voted for us to leave the EU. I dont suppose it occurs to this defeated in 2010 MP that staying in the Customs Union or the Single Market would mean that weren't properly leaving at all, and that he is one of those Remoaners attempting to frustate democracy. A few things are obvious to all but the most partisan................................
That's uncharacteristically undiplomatic - and indeed foolish. I wonder what Trump said to him to provoke him like that? I'm assuming it must be more than Trump's comments on Trudeau etc.
I think the gloves are off between the EU and Trump. May is trying to calm things down but is being ignored.
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Which is why I think Verhofstadt is unwise to add fuel to the fire. It also seems very unlike him, which is why I was wondering if he'd had some personal needle from Trump.
Verhofstadt is well within his rights.
Trump is an orange dotard, who reneges on deals and seeks to humiliate all around him - friend or foe.
exactly , time somebody read him his horoscope, a big orange turnip.
Comments
I was chatting to my visiting Aunt from Auckland btw the other day. She reckoned that housing was the issue that put Labour in power there. It beats me why house prices should be so crazy there, after all there is no shortage of land*. Why not just build? Is it just the low interest rates that have caused this worldwide real estate bubble, which seems true of Canada and Oz as well?
*Auckland is rather constrained by being on an isthmus of course.
The EU cannot, of course, under WTO rules, anent a proper FTA with Britain. They have to have customs checks. Otherwise, they have to abandon border controls with Russia, and that just ain't gonna happen. But the optics of it might be rather bad if their inept negotiating tactics lead to them imposing a one-way hard border in Ireland.
I think we would be mad to follow that course of action frankly, but after the last couple of years it would be silly to assume it won't happen just because our politicians would be batshit crazy to do it.
It would be an ‘interesting’ experiment.
And that attempt to apply the mockers seems to have been successful.
We're mid way through the 30th over and Scotland are 200/2 so Scotland are on course for 400 plus.
England's world record is at risk isn't it?
"Let's not get carried away with the thought that everyone around Boston would be earning shedloads more if it weren't for the immigration - unskilled manual labour on the land is always likely to command only very low pay."
And Labour are not on their side. Did the Tolpuddle Martyrs die in vain? Perhaps the Lincolnshire lot are the wrong sort of agricultural labourers?
This is why it shouldn't happen, but it's looking as though that's the way we're headed.
https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1005757274458075136
Just been pointed out to me that his son is playing in this match.
But perhaps that is quietly the line the government is taking in the event of no deal, the odds of which have risen substantially this week. In the short term at least it would be the quicker, easier and simpler option, whatever the long-term consequences.
Beyond that, though, it’s about capital chasing returns, including foreign capital; the tax advantages of property ownership (no inheritance tax, no capital gains tax); high immigration.
House prices are now levelling off, if not declining in Auckland.
I'm one eighth MacLeod so a century would be nice.
He concedes this would mean the elimination of all manufacturing but suggests it would be worth it. To tackle the inevitable regional issues, he also advocates simply closing down the “North” so that people can move to more productive cities.
You started out by defining Russophobia (fine but not proof), then went into whataboutery when you stated that Alistair had solely criticised Russia (without offering proof) then threw in a nonsequitur (EU reaction to Slovenia different to Crimea, but EU is not a Remainer). That's not an argument.
I was a luke warm voter for Brexit, but seeing all this thrashing around in outrage by so many makes it all worth while. Over and over again. A Brexit Bonus dividend I wasnt expecting.
Very much like a toddler doing a tantrum.
NZ Women 263-3 vs Ireland women.
Off the small matter of 29.3 overs...
I think Trump would welcome a fight as it will bolster him at home. This is going to escalate with unpredictable and far reaching consequences.
Useful idiot, racist, or just vegetative?
"Very much like a toddler doing a tantrum."
To be fair to the great majority of Remainers, they may retain their original opinion but they reluctantly accept the result. It's only the real gobby ones who have a tantrum and embarrass themselves on social media.
Best not provoke them - they're still in denial, but they will recover.
Trump is an orange dotard, who reneges on deals and seeks to humiliate all around him - friend or foe.
I would ask one question. What have you got against orange dotards? Your continued comparison of them to Trump seems pretty harsh.
Brexit makes us less popular (or rather, relevant) with everyone, and whether Trump says one thing or another is irrelevant. He named Justin, for example, then tweeted that he was a liar. May probably got off lightly.
To think otherwise is sheer foolishness.
Brexit = a calamity
Brexiteers = Idiots!
Or are you the typical Tory idiot with very little between the ears?
That was a mighty impressive innings from Calum Macleod. However, England do have considerable firepower right down to no. 10 and I think they will feel this is gettable.
Am I the only person who thinks a bowler averaging 41 after 12 tests and 47 after 28 ODIs already in his late twenties with a long injury history isn't really an international standard bowler, rather someone who should be discarded?
NEW THREAD
I don't mean to offend but I sometimes wonder if CarlottaVance is a bot or a person?
In 2008 he was first elected to the European Parliament, and was named leader of the Liberal and Democrats grouping (which includes the Liberal Democrats).
So, quite a few people. And for quite a long time, too.
That is Russophobia.
I don’t criticise France or the French if I object to Le Pen.
You come up with garbage about Russophobia and then promise us an invasion of the Donbass.
You’re hardly likely to criticise Le Pen anyway, so your example is moot.
But I see its an issue where the facts are inconvenient for you.
Utterly delicious. I've not has as much fun for some time.
I wonder whether Nick Palmer realises that a major reason why Remain lost the referendum in 2016 was because -unlike in 1975 -we did not have an opposition leader prepared to vigorously make the case for UK membership of the EU -indeed Corbyn has been a longstanding opponent of the EU. Why isnt he speaking out against Corbyn who did more for the Leave campaign than anyone save Farage.
I dont suppose he sees at all how undemocratic he sounds when he advocates that "we stay largely within the EU orbit" when a majority of voters voted for us to leave the EU. I dont suppose it occurs to this defeated in 2010 MP that staying in the Customs Union or the Single Market would mean that weren't properly leaving at all, and that he is one of those Remoaners attempting to frustate democracy. A few things are obvious to all but the most partisan................................