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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sajid Javid becomes the fifth CON MP to be favourite to succee

SystemSystem Posts: 11,682
edited July 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sajid Javid becomes the fifth CON MP to be favourite to succeed TMay since GE2017

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  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    1st. Like Javid.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited July 2018
    I’d be chuffed if Javid or Hunt won it.

    Would cement my position as Tipster of the Year. Ahem.
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,226
    FPT:

    From the Grauniad:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/02/may-to-float-third-brexit-customs-model-at-chequers-meeting

    "With hopes fading of a bespoke wider agreement, senior government sources say ministers are broadly being asked to choose between an intimate, Norway-style partnership and a much looser, Canada-style trade deal."

    "Davis, who has long favoured what he calls a “Canada plus plus plus” approach – echoing Ottawa’s trade deal with the EU but covering services – has held a series of meetings with May in recent days."

    Great. Having been fighting over two options rejected by the EU they have come up with a third. Are the EU going to give us "Canada Plus Plus Plus" in the 6 weeks left? Haven't they been very clear and consistent that we can go swivel if we want to cherry pick?

    We can cancel A50 and remain. We can significantly extend A50 and remain. We can leave to EEA. Or there is the cliff edge. The only option offering true freedom is the cliff edge, albiet very brief freedom before we go splat at the bottom.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435

    FPT:

    From the Grauniad:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/02/may-to-float-third-brexit-customs-model-at-chequers-meeting

    "With hopes fading of a bespoke wider agreement, senior government sources say ministers are broadly being asked to choose between an intimate, Norway-style partnership and a much looser, Canada-style trade deal."

    "Davis, who has long favoured what he calls a “Canada plus plus plus” approach – echoing Ottawa’s trade deal with the EU but covering services – has held a series of meetings with May in recent days."

    Great. Having been fighting over two options rejected by the EU they have come up with a third. Are the EU going to give us "Canada Plus Plus Plus" in the 6 weeks left? Haven't they been very clear and consistent that we can go swivel if we want to cherry pick?

    We can cancel A50 and remain. We can significantly extend A50 and remain. We can leave to EEA. Or there is the cliff edge. The only option offering true freedom is the cliff edge, albiet very brief freedom before we go splat at the bottom.

    We can’t cancel Article 50 unilaterally.

    I did warn you about all of this before you voted Leave.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    After years of laying favourites in this market, there’s now in Javid and Gove two plausible candidates for next leader of the Conservatives.
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    VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,435
    The current Conservative strength in the opinion polls is partly as a result of the Brexit supporting public moving over to support them.

    If there is a shift towards a Norway style agreement, then this could be seen as a betrayal by those Brexit voters.

    I am not sure who those betrayed voters would shift to, maybe not vote?
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,226
    GIN1138 said:
    Doesn't really matter any more - unless Barry and Dave plan to do a documentary about it for Netflix.

    More importantly, will the UK be an early recipient of a Trump FART?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990
    O/t but Froome is, according the the BBC, back in the Tour. Says 'The World Anti-Doping Agency, who worked closely with the UCI, has accepted there was no breach and recommended the case is dropped.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44679483
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,101
    Fpt.

    Old Arron's little list is getting bigger.

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1013710918977572864
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    edited July 2018

    Fpt.

    Old Arron's little list is getting bigger.

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1013710918977572864

    Wow. A tweet from Banks that isn’t pushing a far/alt right anti-Semitic meme/fake news.
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,101

    Fpt.

    Old Arron's little list is getting bigger.

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1013710918977572864

    Wow. A tweet from Banks that isn’t pushing a far/alt right anti-Semitic meme/fake news.
    A dilemma for Soros, sue the baggy boxers of the attention seeking, narcissist wee twat & give him the attention he craves, or ignore him like the pimple on the arse of humanity that Banks is. The latter I'd guess.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216

    Fpt.

    Old Arron's little list is getting bigger.

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1013710918977572864

    Wow. A tweet from Banks that isn’t pushing a far/alt right anti-Semitic meme/fake news.
    Does he know anything about tennis?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited July 2018
    As always, the key question isn't who but when. If there's a leadership election this month, Sajid Javid looks great value. If there's not going to be one till 2022, not so much.

    For what it's worth, I think Theresa May has been greatly strengthened by Jacob Rees-Mogg's intervention today, which seems to have had the effect of rallying Conservative loyalist MPs around her. She's quite capable of squandering that goodwill but for now she looks fairly safe.

    So I will be looking for the Sajid Javid price to shorten still further - perhaps as far as 4 - then lay him. While he's obviously ambitious, he's not all that. And Home Secretary rivals the Defence Against The Dark Arts post for unwanted turnover.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435

    Fpt.

    Old Arron's little list is getting bigger.

    https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1013710918977572864

    Wow. A tweet from Banks that isn’t pushing a far/alt right anti-Semitic meme/fake news.
    A dilemma for Soros, sue the baggy boxers of the attention seeking, narcissist wee twat & give him the attention he craves, or ignore him like the pimple on the arse of humanity that Banks is. The latter I'd guess.
    I had the misfortune to read some of the replies under that tweet.

    There’s going to be some disappointed Trumpers when they realise Trump’s daughter married a Jew.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited July 2018
    Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435

    Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
    JRM’s united about 80% of Tory MPs against him this morning.

    No Number 10 spin behind this.
  • Options
    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
    JRM’s united about 80% of Tory MPs against him this morning.

    No Number 10 spin behind this.
    JRM is certainly looking like an empty bag. The more sensible adults are seemingly starting to take control.
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    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712

    FPT:

    From the Grauniad:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/02/may-to-float-third-brexit-customs-model-at-chequers-meeting

    "With hopes fading of a bespoke wider agreement, senior government sources say ministers are broadly being asked to choose between an intimate, Norway-style partnership and a much looser, Canada-style trade deal."

    "Davis, who has long favoured what he calls a “Canada plus plus plus” approach – echoing Ottawa’s trade deal with the EU but covering services – has held a series of meetings with May in recent days."

    Great. Having been fighting over two options rejected by the EU they have come up with a third. Are the EU going to give us "Canada Plus Plus Plus" in the 6 weeks left? Haven't they been very clear and consistent that we can go swivel if we want to cherry pick?

    We can cancel A50 and remain. We can significantly extend A50 and remain. We can leave to EEA. Or there is the cliff edge. The only option offering true freedom is the cliff edge, albiet very brief freedom before we go splat at the bottom.

    We can’t cancel Article 50 unilaterally.

    I did warn you about all of this before you voted Leave.
    And before TMay invoked A50 and started the clock on ourselves - tactically naive, at best...
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Looks like Mexico are joining the league of international populists. I wonder how Trump will react to the new Mexican president and vice versa. I think it could be quite positive.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    edited July 2018

    Does she not know that in North London, North is spelt Norf?

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    O/t but Froome is, according the the BBC, back in the Tour. Says 'The World Anti-Doping Agency, who worked closely with the UCI, has accepted there was no breach and recommended the case is dropped.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44679483

    Is anyone watching the Tour any more? Cycling as a sport is in a very bad place, and the authorities seem to be making little to no effort to address their sport’s (lack of) reputation with the public.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    Scott_P said:
    Too late Mr Mogg, you have blow your chances and a belated tweet almost saying support the PM will cut no ice.

    :lol:
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Sandpit said:

    O/t but Froome is, according the the BBC, back in the Tour. Says 'The World Anti-Doping Agency, who worked closely with the UCI, has accepted there was no breach and recommended the case is dropped.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44679483

    Is anyone watching the Tour any more? Cycling as a sport is in a very bad place, and the authorities seem to be making little to no effort to address their sport’s (lack of) reputation with the public.
    This decision is very much in my interest, as I have £20 on Froome for 5 TDFs at 20-1 placed in 2013 or so.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    As always, the key question isn't who but when. If there's a leadership election this month, Sajid Javid looks great value. If there's not going to be one till 2022, not so much.

    For what it's worth, I think Theresa May has been greatly strengthened by Jacob Rees-Mogg's intervention today, which seems to have had the effect of rallying Conservative loyalist MPs around her. She's quite capable of squandering that goodwill but for now she looks fairly safe.

    So I will be looking for the Sajid Javid price to shorten still further - perhaps as far as 4 - then lay him. While he's obviously ambitious, he's not all that. And Home Secretary rivals the Defence Against The Dark Arts post for unwanted turnover.

    For all my antipathy towards JRM he is not a fool and I wonder if today's intervention was not designed to aid T May in an odd sort of way.
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    As always, the key question isn't who but when. If there's a leadership election this month, Sajid Javid looks great value. If there's not going to be one till 2022, not so much.

    For what it's worth, I think Theresa May has been greatly strengthened by Jacob Rees-Mogg's intervention today, which seems to have had the effect of rallying Conservative loyalist MPs around her. She's quite capable of squandering that goodwill but for now she looks fairly safe.

    So I will be looking for the Sajid Javid price to shorten still further - perhaps as far as 4 - then lay him. While he's obviously ambitious, he's not all that. And Home Secretary rivals the Defence Against The Dark Arts post for unwanted turnover.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNqpejPzdIA

    at 46 min 30 secs
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
    JRM’s united about 80% of Tory MPs against him this morning.

    No Number 10 spin behind this.
    ERG was always a fringe group so why now? Someone's spinning this backlash from MPs who'd have opposed Mogg anyway.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,999
    Sandpit said:

    O/t but Froome is, according the the BBC, back in the Tour. Says 'The World Anti-Doping Agency, who worked closely with the UCI, has accepted there was no breach and recommended the case is dropped.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44679483

    Is anyone watching the Tour any more? Cycling as a sport is in a very bad place, and the authorities seem to be making little to no effort to address their sport’s (lack of) reputation with the public.
    Fernando Gaviria is a decent bet for the maillot vert at 4/1. QST have the best lead out train in the game with the "Wolfpack".
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    O/t but Froome is, according the the BBC, back in the Tour. Says 'The World Anti-Doping Agency, who worked closely with the UCI, has accepted there was no breach and recommended the case is dropped.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/44679483

    Is anyone watching the Tour any more? Cycling as a sport is in a very bad place, and the authorities seem to be making little to no effort to address their sport’s (lack of) reputation with the public.
    This decision is very much in my interest, as I have £20 on Froome for 5 TDFs at 20-1 placed in 2013 or so.
    That’s looking like it might be a good bet! ;)
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Scott_P said:

    A free trade deal on goods and services between the UK and EU

    Out of the single market

    Out of the customs union

    Independence from the ECJ

    Existing rights of UK/EU citizens in respective countries to be maintained

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Independence from the ECJ

    Existing rights of UK/EU citizens in respective countries to be maintained

    Rights guaranteed by the ECJ...

    We want the moon on a stick. Brexiteers still surprised we can't get it.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435

    Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
    JRM’s united about 80% of Tory MPs against him this morning.

    No Number 10 spin behind this.
    ERG was always a fringe group so why now? Someone's spinning this backlash from MPs who'd have opposed Mogg anyway.
    To put them back in their box before Mrs May goes for the Norway option.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
    JRM’s united about 80% of Tory MPs against him this morning.

    No Number 10 spin behind this.
    ERG was always a fringe group so why now? Someone's spinning this backlash from MPs who'd have opposed Mogg anyway.
    If the ERG has any sense - which is a debatable point - it'd No Confidence Mogg and get a new chairman. It's not just about what you say but how you say it, and his article has given his internal opponents the chance to attack him without attacking his policy stance - but those speaking out against him know that it will be damaged all the same, both by association and because it being drowned out in this row.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    If the ERG has any sense - which is a debatable point - it'd No Confidence Mogg and get a new chairman.

    Slippery slope.

    They can't admit they were wrong about Mogg without admitting the possibility that they might also be wrong about absolutely everything else they ever said
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    Sandpit said:

    After years of laying favourites in this market, there’s now in Javid and Gove two plausible candidates for next leader of the Conservatives.

    Yes, I'd be wary of laying these two, who I could easily see being the options put to the membership if there was a poll this year, which there might be.
  • Options
    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Whilst JRM has been overrated for months and never had a snowball's chance of the leadership from outside the Cabinet, this is not new. Is the backlash sign of a new Number 10 spin team flexing its muscles?
    JRM is only a pawn in the game.

    Others have used him as a pawn sacrifice in order to bring down the Queen.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,945
    Scott_P said:

    Independence from the ECJ

    Existing rights of UK/EU citizens in respective countries to be maintained

    Rights guaranteed by the ECJ...

    We want the moon on a stick. Brexiteers still surprised we can't get it.
    Nope. Rights guaranteed by ECJ only in those countries where the ECJ has jurisdiction. That would not include the UK. Not so much moon on a stick, more you howling at the moon.
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    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441
    FPT



    So it's your position that something is both utterly forgettable and vital to reflect the vote? Get real.

    My position is that memory is fallible. It clearly is, or do you want to deny that? Your position is that people's memory of something that happened months ago is more reliable than what they said at the time. You are the one who needs to get real.
    I repeat, your position is that something can be both utterly forgettable and vital to reflect the vote. Absurd.
    I repeat, your position is that memory is infallible. It is often the case that people decide X for reason Y then, some time later, forget their main reason (and, indeed, sometimes forget what they decided). I am not saying that something is utterly forgettable and vital to reflect the vote. I am saying that asking people at the time is a far more reliable way of finding out why they voted for X than asking them months later what they remember about the campaign. Do you really want to deny that? Really?
    My position is emphatically not that memory is infallible. So, back to your absurdity. Are you yet ready to accept that something utterly forgettable is self-evidently not vital to reflect the vote?
    No, I will not accept that it is absurd to say that what people who voted to leave said at the time was their primary reason for voting to leave is "self evidently" not the reason. It clearly is not absurd. There are multiple studies available that were conducted in the immediate aftermath of the referendum showing sovereignty came ahead of immigration in driving the leave vote.

    It may be they were lying and their subsequent recall is more accurate. But it is equally likely that they were telling the truth and their subsequent recall is affected by subsequent events. After all, there is plenty of scientific evidence showing how unreliable memory is and how easily it can be manipulated.

    I know it doesn't suit your narrative. But you should at least consider the possibility that sovereignty was indeed the main concern of leave voters at the time of the referendum.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Nope. Rights guaranteed by ECJ only in those countries where the ECJ has jurisdiction.

    Read the original post

    "Existing rights of UK/EU citizens in respective countries to be maintained "

    Rights guaranteed by the ECJ...
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Jacob Rees – what an absolute prat.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812
    edited July 2018
    Well, I'm still hoping for a deal, since no deal crash Brexit is descend into the public square and force reversal or bring down the government by mass protest time (always assuming they need help imploding). Scendere in piazza is an honourable, democratic tradition - as I'm sure is counter protest.

    A deal involving most of the following is where I hope we can be:

    - Following of virtually all SM rules on trade and standards, based on mutual recognition
    - Standstill transition as discussed.
    - An early deal on post-trasition day 1 participation in critical areas, e.g. Euratom, air traffic
    - A high level outline on future trade relations pending more talks - we will have to accept that most of the cherries here will be picked by the EU and Ireland, but we can hope to nick a few. Some UK sectors for which Europe would prefer to compete harder will get a rough deal.
    (Essentially we will be following almost all trade rules for a percentage of access)
    - Extended Customs transition, duration as needed based on EU accepting one of our customs proposals
    - No formal SM and an end to automatic FoM
    - No formal CU at end of extra transition
    - All ongoing payments transactional for specific participations
    - ECJ accepted for limited and specific technical participations only

    And separately this will give us:
    - Some freedom to strike trade deals on a 'here are our rules' basis
    - Separation from the federalising ambitions of some in the EU
    - The ability to pull some jolly accounting wheeze to fund the NHS

    Dear Brexiteer, deliver me something like this, and I solemnly promise not to sabotage your flight of fancy.



  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,297
    edited July 2018
    Anazina said:

    Jacob Rees – what an absolute prat.

    He has gone too far and it has backfired, thankfully
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,990

    FPT



    So it's your position that something is both utterly forgettable and vital to reflect the vote? Get real.

    My position is that memory is fallible. It clearly is, or do you want to deny that? Your position is that people's memory of something that happened months ago is more reliable than what they said at the time. You are the one who needs to get real.
    I repeat, your position is that something can be both utterly forgettable and vital to reflect the vote. Absurd.
    I repeat, your position is that memory is infallible. It is often the case that people decide X for reason Y then, some time later, forget their main reason (and, indeed, sometimes forget what they decided). I am not saying that something is utterly forgettable and vital to reflect the vote. I am saying that asking people at the time is a far more reliable way of finding out why they voted for X than asking them months later what they remember about the campaign. Do you really want to deny that? Really?
    My position is emphatically not that memory is infallible. So, back to your absurdity. Are you yet ready to accept that something utterly forgettable is self-evidently not vital to reflect the vote?
    No, I will not accept that it is absurd to say that what people who voted to leave said at the time was their primary reason for voting to leave is "self evidently" not the reason. It clearly is not absurd. There are multiple studies available that were conducted in the immediate aftermath of the referendum showing sovereignty came ahead of immigration in driving the leave vote.

    It may be they were lying and their subsequent recall is more accurate. But it is equally likely that they were telling the truth and their subsequent recall is affected by subsequent events. After all, there is plenty of scientific evidence showing how unreliable memory is and how easily it can be manipulated.

    I know it doesn't suit your narrative. But you should at least consider the possibility that sovereignty was indeed the main concern of leave voters at the time of the referendum.
    Sovereignty = control of borders, no?
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    David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Surely Nick Soames aiming for Defence Secretary not PM?
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,297
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    Though more chance than Hunt it seems.

    Looks like a Javid v Gove run off with Javid the likely winner
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    HYUFD said:

    Though more chance than Hunt it seems.

    Looks like a Javid v Gove run off with Javid the likely winner
    Last week you were telling us Gove would back Boris.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629


    Anazina said:

    Jacob Rees – what an absolute prat.

    He has gone too far and it has backfired, thankfully
    A lot depends on what happens next.

    I agree JRM isout of the running if a leadership contest takes place before an election, but if May is caught in post by an unexpected election, Mogg could be next leader. In Javid vs Gove, I think Gove would win.
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    volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Andrea Leadsom is available best-priced at 22-1 and could be the value on current prices.Many of us have already bought and sold Mogg,Davis and Johnson as back-to-lays.Others have backed Gove,Hunt and Javid at double figure odds.
    She is a mum with a nice smile but more importantly,has run well in this particular race before and any future prediction is best predicated upon past performance.She made it to the final 2 last time.She's in good form on the speech circuits of the Tory party.
    Leadsom at 22-1 is too big.She's a player.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Following Andy Murray's withdrawal from the Gentlemen's Singles at Wimbledon his "live" ATP ranking has fallen almost 700 places to 831.

    Similar comparisons with the UK withdrawal from the EU and our future world economic ranking is awaited from PBers of a certain REMAIN persuasion .... :sunglasses:
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,613
    Is it time for

    #SaveJacob

    ???


    Rats in a sack.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Andrea Leadsom is available best-priced at 22-1 and could be the value on current prices.Many of us have already bought and sold Mogg,Davis and Johnson as back-to-lays.Others have backed Gove,Hunt and Javid at double figure odds.
    She is a mum with a nice smile but more importantly,has run well in this particular race before and any future prediction is best predicated upon past performance.She made it to the final 2 last time.She's in good form on the speech circuits of the Tory party.
    Leadsom at 22-1 is too big.She's a player.

    Does make me wonder how different things might have been had Leadsom not given that interview about her children and her opponents lack of them.

    She might well have won the party membership vote. And of course if you had a PM who actually believed in Brexit a whole different approach might have been taken. Cos threatening no deal but making zero preparations for it has been folly and totally undermined the negotiations.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,297
    Foxy said:


    Anazina said:

    Jacob Rees – what an absolute prat.

    He has gone too far and it has backfired, thankfully
    A lot depends on what happens next.

    I agree JRM isout of the running if a leadership contest takes place before an election, but if May is caught in post by an unexpected election, Mogg could be next leader. In Javid vs Gove, I think Gove would win.
    Hope it is Javid but JRM has gone too far today - lets get on and do a Norway style deal if possible with some fudge on immigration
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Except it's a good way to communicate with constituents effectively for free - although how many people follow their MPs on Twitter is another matter.

    But what they should avoid is getting into Twitter spats.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    I do get the feeling that Boris's 'F**k business' line was a bridge too far, and has opened the eyes of many of the more sensible Tory leavers.
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    I think JRM has far better political judgement than you. May is trying to engage in a sell out and he called her out on it. Yes, Tory MPs will get all hysterical because most of them are unprincipled scumbags who don't care about anything other than holding their seats. But, come Saturday, when it is clear that the Chequers summit was a complete farce, reality is going to dawn on the Tory party that they need a new leader who actually has a clue what they want to do.

    They say that whoever yields the knife never wears the Crown - expect this is obviously not true (er, Thatcher...). In this case, the Cabinet Brexiteers won't act and if this all comes unravelled (which I think it will) then JRM will be the one who has credibility because he never deviated from his beliefs. Do you honestly think Gove and Javid are going to be credible for sitting on their hands as May engaged in the most inept negotiation of all time?

    If the Leavers resign, JRM will not stand, he will back Boris. But if the Leavers stay and the wheels fall off, JRM is calculating that he will be best placed and he may well be right.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    edited July 2018
    MaxPB said:

    Looks like Mexico are joining the league of international populists. I wonder how Trump will react to the new Mexican president and vice versa. I think it could be quite positive.

    If Mexico lose to Brazil, the populists might have him gone by breakfast....
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,812
    JackW said:

    Following Andy Murray's withdrawal from the Gentlemen's Singles at Wimbledon his "live" ATP ranking has fallen almost 700 places to 831.

    Similar comparisons with the UK withdrawal from the EU and our future world economic ranking is awaited from PBers of a certain REMAIN persuasion .... :sunglasses:

    If the UK reaches 831, given there are only 200ish nations now, Brexit will be the least of our worries.

    But Meeks' excellent History of Argentina header certainly covered such ground.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435

    I do get the feeling that Boris's 'F**k business' line was a bridge too far, and has opened the eyes of many of the more sensible Tory leavers.

    Especially when you consider the make up of most large donors to the Tory party.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,297

    I do get the feeling that Boris's 'F**k business' line was a bridge too far, and has opened the eyes of many of the more sensible Tory leavers.

    It was crass and could be the turning point to a softer Brexit
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited July 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Though more chance than Hunt it seems.

    Looks like a Javid v Gove run off with Javid the likely winner
    Last week you were telling us Gove would back Boris.
    Well Boris polls better with the public, Gove will make a calculation whether it is better to be Chancellor under Boris and beat Corbyn and be in power for years or be PM for a year or two then lose to Corbyn. I think Gove will only run this time if he thinks he can beat Corbyn which the evidence suggests against at present.

    Though I think Javid likely gets it either way, he now polls best of the top 4 in the Cabinet plus Mogg with Yougov and now leads with members
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,067
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,216
    brendan16 said:

    Andrea Leadsom is available best-priced at 22-1 and could be the value on current prices.Many of us have already bought and sold Mogg,Davis and Johnson as back-to-lays.Others have backed Gove,Hunt and Javid at double figure odds.
    She is a mum with a nice smile but more importantly,has run well in this particular race before and any future prediction is best predicated upon past performance.She made it to the final 2 last time.She's in good form on the speech circuits of the Tory party.
    Leadsom at 22-1 is too big.She's a player.

    Does make me wonder how different things might have been had Leadsom not given that interview about her children and her opponents lack of them.

    She might well have won the party membership vote. And of course if you had a PM who actually believed in Brexit a whole different approach might have been taken. Cos threatening no deal but making zero preparations for it has been folly and totally undermined the negotiations.
    Sunday Times claimed that she was only planning to run if it happens before 2020.
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    ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Pro_Rata said:

    Well, I'm still hoping for a deal, since no deal crash Brexit is descend into the public square and force reversal or bring down the government by mass protest time (always assuming they need help imploding). Scendere in piazza is an honourable, democratic tradition - as I'm sure is counter protest.

    A deal involving most of the following is where I hope we can be:

    - Following of virtually all SM rules on trade and standards, based on mutual recognition
    - Standstill transition as discussed.
    - An early deal on post-trasition day 1 participation in critical areas, e.g. Euratom, air traffic
    - A high level outline on future trade relations pending more talks - we will have to accept that most of the cherries here will be picked by the EU and Ireland, but we can hope to nick a few. Some UK sectors for which Europe would prefer to compete harder will get a rough deal.
    (Essentially we will be following almost all trade rules for a percentage of access)
    - Extended Customs transition, duration as needed based on EU accepting one of our customs proposals
    - No formal SM and an end to automatic FoM
    - No formal CU at end of extra transition
    - All ongoing payments transactional for specific participations
    - ECJ accepted for limited and specific technical participations only

    And separately this will give us:
    - Some freedom to strike trade deals on a 'here are our rules' basis
    - Separation from the federalising ambitions of some in the EU
    - The ability to pull some jolly accounting wheeze to fund the NHS

    Dear Brexiteer, deliver me something like this, and I solemnly promise not to sabotage your flight of fancy.



    You say you want to follow all rules for a percentage of access, what do you mean every country in the world has access to the SM if the products they make comply with EU standards. Why do you only want a percentage of access?
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    PeterMannionPeterMannion Posts: 712
    Truss is a poor woman's Leadsom.

    Leadsom is a poor person's politician.

    Leadsom would have beaten TMay in the 2016 members' vote.

    Heaven help us all.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435
    I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.

    If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    That seems a really bad negotiating result. And obviously unfair on the UK.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Pro_Rata said:

    JackW said:

    Following Andy Murray's withdrawal from the Gentlemen's Singles at Wimbledon his "live" ATP ranking has fallen almost 700 places to 831.

    Similar comparisons with the UK withdrawal from the EU and our future world economic ranking is awaited from PBers of a certain REMAIN persuasion .... :sunglasses:

    If the UK reaches 831, given there are only 200ish nations now, Brexit will be the least of our worries.

    But Meeks' excellent History of Argentina header certainly covered such ground.
    Fantasy figures and the BREXIT debate, who'd have thought ?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    .

    If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.

    You are Jasper Carrott and I claim my £5.....
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612

    I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.

    If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
    Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.

    But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,609
    Except that Trump might succeed in appointing another justice to hear this case, should it make it to the SC...
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/28/roger-stone-aide-robert-mueller-subpoena-682318

    The rule of law is wobbling a bit in the US.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Andrea Leadsom is available best-priced at 22-1 and could be the value on current prices.Many of us have already bought and sold Mogg,Davis and Johnson as back-to-lays.Others have backed Gove,Hunt and Javid at double figure odds.
    She is a mum with a nice smile but more importantly,has run well in this particular race before and any future prediction is best predicated upon past performance.She made it to the final 2 last time.She's in good form on the speech circuits of the Tory party.
    Leadsom at 22-1 is too big.She's a player.

    Massively disagree, Leadsom is amongst those I've laid to zero around this price.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    edited July 2018

    MaxPB said:

    Looks like Mexico are joining the league of international populists. I wonder how Trump will react to the new Mexican president and vice versa. I think it could be quite positive.

    If Mexico lose to Brazil, the populists might have him gone by breakfast....
    Trump has tweeted congrats to Obrador, though Obrador was the most anti US candidate, I know Bannon prefers populist leftists to centrist globalist if he cannot get a nationalist conservative elected.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1013618640061595648

    The new Mexican President is also a close friend of Jeremy Corbyn and both share a similar populist left ideology while of course Corbyn's wife is Mexican
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908

    I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.

    If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
    Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.

    But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
    If this were true, then DD should have resigned in protest. If your PM is going to undermine you so completely, then what is the point in being there!?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,435

    .

    If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.

    You are Jasper Carrott and I claim my £5.....
    I still proud of the thread where I said David Davis was as useful as a marzipan dildo.
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    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    Pro_Rata said:

    Well, I'm still hoping for a deal, since no deal crash Brexit is descend into the public square and force reversal or bring down the government by mass protest time (always assuming they need help imploding). Scendere in piazza is an honourable, democratic tradition - as I'm sure is counter protest.

    A deal involving most of the following is where I hope we can be:

    - Following of virtually all SM rules on trade and standards, based on mutual recognition
    - Standstill transition as discussed.
    - An early deal on post-trasition day 1 participation in critical areas, e.g. Euratom, air traffic
    - A high level outline on future trade relations pending more talks - we will have to accept that most of the cherries here will be picked by the EU and Ireland, but we can hope to nick a few. Some UK sectors for which Europe would prefer to compete harder will get a rough deal.
    (Essentially we will be following almost all trade rules for a percentage of access)
    - Extended Customs transition, duration as needed based on EU accepting one of our customs proposals
    - No formal SM and an end to automatic FoM
    - No formal CU at end of extra transition
    - All ongoing payments transactional for specific participations
    - ECJ accepted for limited and specific technical participations only

    And separately this will give us:
    - Some freedom to strike trade deals on a 'here are our rules' basis
    - Separation from the federalising ambitions of some in the EU
    - The ability to pull some jolly accounting wheeze to fund the NHS

    Dear Brexiteer, deliver me something like this, and I solemnly promise not to sabotage your flight of fancy.



    Perfect cherry picking !
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    archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    rkrkrk said:

    I said David Davis is so crap a negotiator that he pays full price for a sofa at DFS.

    If you threw him in to a barrel of boobs he’d come up sucking his own thumb.
    Honestly, this is utterly pathetic. Everyone knows that Olly Robbins, not DD, negotiated the financial settlement. It was a total capitulation as demanded by Theresa May who gave him the instructions not to argue anything with the EU except that we did not have to pay up front so we could make the headline figure look a bit better.

    But you Remainers were on here night and day saying that we had to pay the Brexit bill and now you are complaining? But of course you are in love with Robbins, so you pretend that this was down to Davis. Shameful.
    If this were true, then DD should have resigned in protest. If your PM is going to undermine you so completely, then what is the point in being there!?
    Hopefully a mistake he will rectify.
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    FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Never understand this JRM thing. Do you really believe that the DUP, the party of Ian Paisley would allow a Papist through the door of No. 10?
This discussion has been closed.