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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: UK Property – What’s It Worth?

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    France do not look at all unbeatable here. Belgium have come close a number of times and France have only been able to score one.

    They'll probably be marginal favourites in the Final if the score finishes like this but not by that much.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    Because this time it is a reasonably cogent set of proposals, rather than slogans and platitudes?

    No.

    They've always responded a couple of days later but this time the rebellion and exit of Brexiteers before the next working day indicates that the EU has maybe pushed the UK as far as they can.

    If the Brexiteers had rolled over easily on this the EU again would have responded along the lines of "progress but still wanting to have cake and eat it, more work needed."
    Could be some truth in that. It is obvious this is as far as TM can go
    It is no bluff from May, that much is clear. Whether the EU was bluffing on how tough its red lines were remains to be seen, but it would be far from surprising if they said they could not go with our proposal, even if they could work with it a little bit. Heroic wording fudges conceivable could get them there, but might still be too much more for May to make work given her position, as so many would understandably be unsatisfied (and not only the unsatisfiable).
    And then it is to a no deal, sadly
    Seems likely. I'm not sure pre-fudging our offer as william suggests has happened gets it over the line, as even if 80% is agreed, the last 20% is always the most significant I'd wager, and surely the EU will feel the need to demand more.
    The thing is that the political declaration is non-binding and can be fairly high level. As long as the EU accept the broad principles of the kind of Association Agreement May wants then she should be ok,
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    Sky and BBC virtually every day bemoan the 100,000 staff shortages in the NHS and the huge number of staff who have returned home. Indeed it is generally recognised the NHS needs 100,000 more staff notwithstanding record levels of employment in the NHS
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    I'm sure I've seen this RCS video a few days ago.

    Please tell me I'm not imaging it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    London as a global city is competing more with New York, Paris, LA and Tokyo in terms of property buyer and hence price than UK regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh

    Well yes, I addressed that in the video
    Sorry have been at Wimbledon watching the doubles so will watch it later, sure it was great!
    SeanT-esque level "subtle" brag.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,083
    edited July 2018

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    It's been a day of astounding comment from BigG ever since he revealed his cruising overexertions.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    London as a global city is competing more with New York, Paris, LA and Tokyo in terms of property buyer and hence price than UK regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh

    Well yes, I addressed that in the video
    Sorry have been at Wimbledon watching the doubles so will watch it later, sure it was great!
    SeanT-esque level "subtle" brag.
    It is called a 'humblebrag' not a 'subtle brag' at least that's what Tom Hiddleston told me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Lakuku isn't at the races...piers Morgan had better reacts when facing Brett Lee than lakuku on crosses this evening.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    Sky and BBC virtually every day bemoan the 100,000 staff shortages in the NHS and the huge number of staff who have returned home. Indeed it is generally recognised the NHS needs 100,000 more staff notwithstanding record levels of employment in the NHS
    Are there any links to rational reports or is this just bollox speak you watch or listen to.

    Because I can't find anything about this on either the BBC or Guardian websites.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    London as a global city is competing more with New York, Paris, LA and Tokyo in terms of property buyer and hence price than UK regional cities like Birmingham, Manchester, Cardiff and Edinburgh

    Well yes, I addressed that in the video
    Sorry have been at Wimbledon watching the doubles so will watch it later, sure it was great!
    SeanT-esque level "subtle" brag.
    It is called a 'humblebrag' not a 'subtle brag' at least that's what Tom Hiddleston told me.
    Boom boom...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    edited July 2018
    IanB2 said:

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    It's been a day of astounding comment from BigG ever since he revealed his cruising overexertions.
    Not sure what to make of that but I was relieved my knee x rays were clear and the physio diagnosed strained hamstrings which are still irritating, but not as bad as Boris
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Hazard's been pretty immense. Not enough though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    It is, but the quality of opposition is different so you can't compare the performances.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    IanB2 said:

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    It's been a day of astounding comment from BigG ever since he revealed his cruising overexertions.
    Bloody hell, as if SeanT isn't enough.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    edited July 2018

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    Sky and BBC virtually every day bemoan the 100,000 staff shortages in the NHS and the huge number of staff who have returned home. Indeed it is generally recognised the NHS needs 100,000 more staff notwithstanding record levels of employment in the NHS
    Are there any links to rational reports or is this just bollox speak you watch or listen to.

    Because I can't find anything about this on either the BBC or Guardian websites.
    It was trailed all last week when both broadcasters did 7 days of intense NHS coverage on the NHS 70 birthday

    See BBC news report of the 21st February together with report in the Independent 20th December 2017 and other reports
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    Sky and BBC virtually every day bemoan the 100,000 staff shortages in the NHS and the huge number of staff who have returned home. Indeed it is generally recognised the NHS needs 100,000 more staff notwithstanding record levels of employment in the NHS
    https://tinyurl.com/y8zso6wv

    NHS nursing vacancies at record high with more than 34,000 roles advertised

    That's 12% of their nursing staff. I do wonder about some of these claims. Here's another from the NHS confederation (http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/key-statistics-on-the-nhs):

    The NHS deals with over 1 million patients every 36 hours.

    Last year I was at a government statisticians gathering and we had a talk from the chief statistician at the Dept for Health. He told us that he has spent many hours trying to work out where this number came from. Looking at that website, it says it came from Chief Executive's report to the NHS: December 2005. But that isn't particularly helpful.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    Belgium are much harder opponents than Sweden though and France have stopped them scoring or posing much of a threat.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    Belgium are much harder opponents than Sweden though and France have stopped them scoring or posing much of a threat.
    Indeed they have but they came very close a number of times.

    As I said they're good but the idea this was the final or that they're invincible after this is not shown by tonight's performance IMO. I'd put France as favourites in the final but no more than 60% as it stands.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    I'd rather lose to Croatia in the semis than lose to the Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys in the final.

    Silly post even in jest. Let’s concentrate on beating Croatia and earn the right to have a go at France in the final.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    tlg86 said:

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
    They were very, very good on the counter today. So rapid. Hopefully Deschamps sticks with Giroud because he's shite.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    Sky and BBC virtually every day bemoan the 100,000 staff shortages in the NHS and the huge number of staff who have returned home. Indeed it is generally recognised the NHS needs 100,000 more staff notwithstanding record levels of employment in the NHS
    Are there any links to rational reports or is this just bollox speak you watch or listen to.

    Because I can't find anything about this on either the BBC or Guardian websites.
    It was trailed all last week when both broadcasters did 7 days of intense NHS covrrage on the NHS 70 birthday
    So propaganda bollox rather than any rational discussion with actual data to back it up.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
    They were very, very good on the counter today. So rapid. Hopefully Deschamps sticks with Giroud because he's shite.
    He's been shite all WC.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    Belgium are much harder opponents than Sweden though and France have stopped them scoring or posing much of a threat.
    Belgium had a donkey for a centre forward, and yes I am a lifelong Man Utd supporter
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    Anazina said:

    I'd rather lose to Croatia in the semis than lose to the Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys in the final.

    Silly post even in jest. Let’s concentrate on beating Croatia and earn the right to have a go at France in the final.
    +1
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
    They were very, very good on the counter today. So rapid. Hopefully Deschamps sticks with Giroud because he's shite.
    I'll remind you of that when he scores the winner on Sunday.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
    They were very, very good on the counter today. So rapid. Hopefully Deschamps sticks with Giroud because he's shite.
    He's been shite all WC.
    He's been shite for longer than the WC.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
    They were very, very good on the counter today. So rapid. Hopefully Deschamps sticks with Giroud because he's shite.
    He's been shite all WC.
    He's been shite for longer than the WC.
    Three FA Cups, two winning assists. How does Kane's record compare?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    Hah, what a nonsense - Belgium are MILES better than Sweden were.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    Sky and BBC virtually every day bemoan the 100,000 staff shortages in the NHS and the huge number of staff who have returned home. Indeed it is generally recognised the NHS needs 100,000 more staff notwithstanding record levels of employment in the NHS
    Are there any links to rational reports or is this just bollox speak you watch or listen to.

    Because I can't find anything about this on either the BBC or Guardian websites.
    It was trailed all last week when both broadcasters did 7 days of intense NHS covrrage on the NHS 70 birthday
    So propaganda bollox rather than any rational discussion with actual data to back it up.
    See my edit. It has been reported on the BBC and Independent. Just google 100,000 NHS staff shortage
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
    They were very, very good on the counter today. So rapid. Hopefully Deschamps sticks with Giroud because he's shite.
    He's been shite all WC.
    He's been shite for longer than the WC.
    Three FA Cups, two winning assists. How does Kane's record compare?
    Still shit. Complete donkey. Most Arsenal fans I know agree as well. Glad to be rid of him.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Belgium definitely should have had a dangerous free kick, then again they certainly should have had a penalty against themselves vs Brazil.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    I'd rather lose to Croatia in the semis than lose to the Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys in the final.

    That's because you made a complete mess of your betting despite being repeatedly told that England was the strongest team in the easiest half of the draw.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    I don't follow many of Man United's games but does Pogba normally put a defensive shift like that in ?
    He was immense.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    tlg86 said:

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    I disagree. I think they defended very well tonight and always looked more threatening when they got to the final third.
    They were very, very good on the counter today. So rapid. Hopefully Deschamps sticks with Giroud because he's shite.
    He's been shite all WC.
    He's been shite for longer than the WC.
    Three FA Cups, two winning assists. How does Kane's record compare?
    Still shit. Complete donkey. Most Arsenal fans I know agree as well. Glad to be rid of him.
    Well I go to 85% of Arsenal games and I was very disappointed to see him leave. Always works hard, helps create space for others and did it when it really mattered. Plenty of Spurs players in the England team don't know how to get past the semi final stage. Let's home that changes tomorrow night.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    Definitely think the French performance today is much less convincing than ours against Sweden. They're good but they're beatable.

    Belgium are much harder opponents than Sweden though and France have stopped them scoring or posing much of a threat.
    Belgium had a donkey for a centre forward, and yes I am a lifelong Man Utd supporter
    Not his best day but Pogba was superb and Fellaini excellent. I think he plays better inside right where he gets the ball to feet and he can run at people.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    I'm sure I've seen this RCS video a few days ago.

    Please tell me I'm not imaging it.

    Must be deja vu. What did you think of tonight's England Sweden match?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    Pulpstar said:

    I don't follow many of Man United's games but does Pogba normally put a defensive shift like that in ?
    He was immense.

    No
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    I'm sure I've seen this RCS video a few days ago.

    Please tell me I'm not imaging it.

    I posted it downthread a few threads back.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    I'm sure I've seen this RCS video a few days ago.

    Please tell me I'm not imaging it.

    It was published on Sunday night and this thread was originally published in the early hours of Monday and pulled shortly thereafter following the resignation of David Davis.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    edited July 2018
    Airbus endorsing TM plan

    Business pleased generally according to Sky news report tonight
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Good and enjoyable video. In the long run I expect Smithson jnr is correct. When, however, is much harder to judge.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695

    Airbus endorsing TM plan

    Business pleased generally according to Sky news report tonight

    Yes because she's sold Brexit down the river... That's what they wanted.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Good and enjoyable video. In the long run I expect Smithson jnr is correct. When, however, is much harder to judge.

    When interest rates revert to historical levels
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    I'd rather lose to Croatia in the semis than lose to the Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys in the final.

    The English beat the French Navy in 1340, 1692, 1759, 1794, 1798 and 1805. I think they can handle them.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    Big G

    You made this comment two threads back which rather astounded me:


    I see that immigration is becoming much more palatable and that must have to do with the daily reports of the NHS loosing staff because of the Brexit uncertainty and the fact we need 100,000 more NHS workers now. That could in time play more to immigration becoming less of an issue, but only as long as it can be seen to be controlled.

    What are these daily reports of the NHS losing staff ?

    Can you link to some of these reports because I'm jut googled it and can't see anything.

    Is this something specific to North Wales or Wales generally ?

    According to the ONS employment in the NHS is at its highest level ever.

    Page 4.1 in the spreadsheet available here:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics
    Sky and BBC virtually every day bemoan the 100,000 staff shortages in the NHS and the huge number of staff who have returned home. Indeed it is generally recognised the NHS needs 100,000 more staff notwithstanding record levels of employment in the NHS
    Are there any links to rational reports or is this just bollox speak you watch or listen to.

    Because I can't find anything about this on either the BBC or Guardian websites.
    It was trailed all last week when both broadcasters did 7 days of intense NHS covrrage on the NHS 70 birthday
    So propaganda bollox rather than any rational discussion with actual data to back it up.
    See my edit. It has been reported on the BBC and Independent. Just google 100,000 NHS staff shortage
    ' See BBC news report of the 21st February together with report in the Independent 20th December 2017 and other reports '

    A report in February and another last December is hardly 'daily reports' of a 'fact' that the NHS is short of 100,000 workers.

    You've really fallen for this propaganda ???

    I bet you could find similar stories for every year back to 1948.

    Here's one from 2003:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1424261/NHS-being-held-back-by-shortage-of-trained-staff.html

    and this one's from 2007:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6228659.stm

    while this is from 1998:

    ' The National Health Service is facing serious difficulties because it is failing to retain staff.
    A report suggests that more than three quarters of all hospitals are struggling to keep and recruit nurses and midwives at all levels. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/173142.stm
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,002
    GIN1138 said:

    Airbus endorsing TM plan

    Business pleased generally according to Sky news report tonight

    Yes because she's sold Brexit down the river... That's what they wanted.
    She has protected my son in laws job together with 40,000 other workers at Airbus including North Wales plus tens of thousands in the supply chain
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969

    I'd rather lose to Croatia in the semis than lose to the Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys in the final.

    The English beat the French Navy in 1340, 1692, 1759, 1794, 1798 and 1805. I think they can handle them.
    We also beat the French Navy in 1940.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    GIN1138 said:

    Airbus endorsing TM plan

    Business pleased generally according to Sky news report tonight

    Yes because she's sold Brexit down the river... That's what they wanted.
    She has protected my son in laws job together with 40,000 other workers at Airbus including North Wales plus tens of thousands in the supply chain
    You can't eat "sovereignty".
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,340
    edited July 2018

    GIN1138 said:

    Airbus endorsing TM plan

    Business pleased generally according to Sky news report tonight

    Yes because she's sold Brexit down the river... That's what they wanted.
    She has protected my son in laws job together with 40,000 other workers at Airbus including North Wales plus tens of thousands in the supply chain
    Ah, buts what’s a job when you can have sovereignty and FREEDOM?

    By pure coincidence, most of the people arguing for hard Brexit and that the economic consequences are “worth paying” are retired and/or comfortably off.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    I'm sure I've seen this RCS video a few days ago.

    Please tell me I'm not imaging it.

    It was published on Sunday night and this thread was originally published in the early hours of Monday and pulled shortly thereafter following the resignation of David Davis.
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm sure I've seen this RCS video a few days ago.

    Please tell me I'm not imaging it.

    I posted it downthread a few threads back.
    Thanks.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    ' See BBC news report of the 21st February together with report in the Independent 20th December 2017 and other reports '

    A report in February and another last December is hardly 'daily reports' of a 'fact' that the NHS is short of 100,000 workers.

    You've really fallen for this propaganda ???

    I bet you could find similar stories for every year back to 1948.

    Here's one from 2003:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1424261/NHS-being-held-back-by-shortage-of-trained-staff.html

    and this one's from 2007:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6228659.stm

    while this is from 1998:

    ' The National Health Service is facing serious difficulties because it is failing to retain staff.
    A report suggests that more than three quarters of all hospitals are struggling to keep and recruit nurses and midwives at all levels. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/173142.stm

    I blame Mrs Thatcher. Or at least, some nurses I spoke to did. Apparently the problem arose from Mrs T flogging off all the nurses' homes where student and single nurses used to live before most of them got married and moved out. It changed the arithmetic:
    crap pay - peppercorn rent = nurse;
    crap pay - commercial rent = look for a better-paid job.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    Brexiteers no longer pretending Brexit will be any good. We were promised sunlit uplands.

    https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1016766936716333057
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    GIN1138 said:

    Airbus endorsing TM plan

    Business pleased generally according to Sky news report tonight

    Yes because she's sold Brexit down the river... That's what they wanted.
    She has protected my son in laws job together with 40,000 other workers at Airbus including North Wales plus tens of thousands in the supply chain
    Ah, buts what’s a job when you can have sovereignty and FREEDOM?

    By pure coincidence, most of the people arguing for hard Brexit and that the economic consequences are “worth paying” are retired and/or comfortably off.
    ... retired, comfortably off, or have set up a branch of their hedge fund in Ireland:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/13/tory-mp-jacob-rees-mogg-defends-setting-hedge-fund-branch-ireland/
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    Brexiteers no longer pretending Brexit will be any good. We were promised sunlit uplands.

    https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1016766936716333057

    I find the attempt to move the argument to be about democracy a dangerous one for the harder strand of Brexiteers. I have no doubt at least some of what they would prefer would be popular, more popular than my preferences, but no matter how hard they try they cannot make one single version of Brexit the only 'true' Brexit. A bad Brexit is still Brexit so by her own definitions Priti should be satisfied. Of course, that is not what she means.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited July 2018
    Some of the Royals really are parasites.

    https://twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1016720982214574080
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited July 2018
    Scott_P said:
    That's extremely unprofessional and does not speak well of them, particular us hearing about it.

    Granted, I am sure I'd be tempted in that situation, but even so.
  • AllyPally_RobAllyPally_Rob Posts: 605
    edited July 2018
    From my perspective as a relatively ambivalent Labour remainer, I actually think the May proposal is a pretty sensible compromise.

    3 points I would make:

    1. May can go to the Europeans now and effectively say 'Look this is a good deal for you, it's such a good deal 2 of my most senior cabinet ministers have resigned because of it. Don't push your look and ask for anymore'.

    2. With Boris and DD gone, she can probably get away with extending the UK's membership of the customs union for a couple of years, until the technology is ready for the FCA implementation.

    3. Both of the 2 above points are only possible IF Labour comes out in support of the deal. Which they should do. Not only because it's the right thing to do for the country (and is actually pretty close to what Labour wants), but it'd be smart politically as a deal passed on Labour votes would drive the Brexiteers totally bonkers and split the Tories in two.

    Lets see if the Labour leadership can play chess and not checkers and realise this. I'm not sure they will sadly...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    edited July 2018

    Some of the Royals really are parasites.

    twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1016720982214574080

    According to wikipedia, RVO, three jubilee medals, Canadian forces decoration, NZ commemorative medal. A lot of turning up awards.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Brexiteers no longer pretending Brexit will be any good. We were promised sunlit uplands.

    ttps://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1016766936716333057

    That's the odd thing, which Theresa May exploited at Chequers: none of the Brexiteers agreed on their destination or had the foggiest idea how to get there. We see it today when the ERG despite having twice the numbers needed, can't get 48 of its members to write a letter. Even now, two years after the referendum, there is no settled view of what Brexit ought to resemble, which is why Theresa May can get away with shifting her red lines around almost by the day. Surely they can't all be Russian sleeper agents.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That's extremely unprofessional and does not speak well of them, particular us hearing about it.

    Granted, I am sure I'd be tempted in that situation, but even so.
    They are only human, after all. Who can blame them? Boris is a dickhead.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    From my perspective as a relatively ambivalent Labour remainer, I actually think the May proposal is a pretty sensible compromise.

    3 points I would make:

    1. May can go to the Europeans now and effectively say 'Look this is a good deal for you, it's such a good deal 2 of my most senior cabinet ministers have resigned because of it. Don't push your look and ask for anymore'.

    2. With Boris and DD gone, she can probably get away with extending the UK's membership of the customs union for a couple of years, until the technology is ready for the FCA implementation.

    3. Both of the 2 above points are only possible IF Labour comes out in support of the deal. Which they should do. Not only because it's the right thing to do for the country (and is actually pretty close to what Labour wants), but it'd be smart politically as a deal passed on Labour votes would drive the Brexiteers totally bonkers and split the Tories in two.

    Lets see if the Labour leadership can play chess and not checkers and realise this. I'm not sure they will sadly...

    I cannot see Labour doing that, although admittedly not having voted for them before my outlook is from the outside. Their Brexit position has seemed very changeable, they are very divided themselves, and Corbyn has done well out of sitting back, being vague, and pointing to the Tory chaos on the subject. While Labour support probably is needed given the parliamentary arithmetic, I cannot see the leadership wanting to 'own' any aspect of Brexit, and so will stick to saying that whatever the Tories get, they would have done better.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    1. May can go to the Europeans now and effectively say 'Look this is a good deal for you, it's such a good deal 2 of my most senior cabinet ministers have resigned because of it. Don't push your look and ask for anymore'.

    I agree, but I've yet to hear anyone on the other side even suggest that they will compromise on freedom of movement. And without that compromise I think May's agreement will be unsellable, the public would righly conclude she had failed them.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Brexiteers no longer pretending Brexit will be any good. We were promised sunlit uplands.

    https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1016766936716333057

    Utterly laughable stuff from a thick MP.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That's extremely unprofessional and does not speak well of them, particular us hearing about it.

    Granted, I am sure I'd be tempted in that situation, but even so.
    Very unpatriotic. I bet the French foreign ministry never cracks open English sparkling wine.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That's extremely unprofessional and does not speak well of them, particular us hearing about it.

    Granted, I am sure I'd be tempted in that situation, but even so.
    They are only human, after all. Who can blame them? Boris is a dickhead.
    Yes, he is, but 'they are only human' is just a variant of 'boys will be boys' without the sexist element - it's not really an excuse at all, since most people manage to not do whatever is being complained about. They may have to work for any number of terrible ministers across decades, and if they want to moan to each other and have a celebratory drink when a bad one goes, that's fine so long as it isn't being leaked to the press. Is Hunt supposed to be pleased at this? Or the Corbynite who will replace him?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    glw said:

    1. May can go to the Europeans now and effectively say 'Look this is a good deal for you, it's such a good deal 2 of my most senior cabinet ministers have resigned because of it. Don't push your look and ask for anymore'.

    I agree, but I've yet to hear anyone on the other side even suggest that they will compromise on freedom of movement. And without that compromise I think May's agreement will be unsellable, the public would righly conclude she had failed them.
    Agreed. She needs a win on that subject but I don;t see how the EU provides it, even legendary fudge will not disguise it as those who do care about FOM, and it is a lot of people, have been burned many times.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    RobD said:

    Some of the Royals really are parasites.

    twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1016720982214574080

    According to wikipedia, RVO, three jubilee medals, Canadian forces decoration, NZ commemorative medal. A lot of turning up awards.
    So like going to a GP and finding out your Doctor has a PhD in Needlework.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    edited July 2018
    Cannot believe I am saying this, but Trump has a point. When even the richest nations like Germany don't meet their financial military obligations to NATO, and their military is simple not fit for purpose. They really are taking the US for a ride when it comes to expecting NATO to take up the flak and provide an effective Defence. https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1016781588158402567
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787
    That kind of nonsense from Priti Patel is why a second referendum is unavoidable. Otherwise a Dolchstosslegende will be built up by unsavoury characters even as we languish outside the EU with a suboptimal relationship.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400
    edited July 2018
    fitalass said:
    That doesn't look like a Trump tweet at all - not a single word was in ALLCAPS. (NATO does not count)
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,501
    edited July 2018

    RobD said:

    Some of the Royals really are parasites.

    twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1016720982214574080

    According to wikipedia, RVO, three jubilee medals, Canadian forces decoration, NZ commemorative medal. A lot of turning up awards.
    So like going to a GP and finding out your Doctor has a PhD in Needlework.
    Well its not like you actually expect him to fight for you, is it? I'd trust Harry to get stuck in for us, Wills too probably.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited July 2018
    I had dinner with a Leaver tonight he was so depressed.

    He said far too many Leavers think they've won the war, once we're out that's it.

    But in reality if Brexit is a disaster/doesn't match the promises of Leave the people will vote to overturn Brexit within a decade.

    He used to laugh at this article of mine, now he thinks it is prescient.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-brexiteers-junckers-fifth-columnists/
  • Anazina said:

    Brexiteers no longer pretending Brexit will be any good. We were promised sunlit uplands.

    https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1016766936716333057

    Utterly laughable stuff from a thick MP.
    Every time I see her mentioned, all I can think of is her appearance on Question Time a few years ago trying to defend the logic of the death penalty, by basically saying miscarriages of justice were impossible...in the words of Trump 'very low IQ'
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    Anazina said:

    Brexiteers no longer pretending Brexit will be any good. We were promised sunlit uplands.

    https://twitter.com/patel4witham/status/1016766936716333057

    Utterly laughable stuff from a thick MP.
    Every time I see her mentioned, all I can think of is her appearance on Question Time a few years ago trying to defend the logic of the death penalty, by basically saying miscarriages of justice were impossible...in the words of Trump 'very low IQ'
    Still, she is telegenic, as the descriptor generally goes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    That's extremely unprofessional and does not speak well of them, particular us hearing about it.

    Granted, I am sure I'd be tempted in that situation, but even so.
    I thought the Foreign Office prided themselves on their amateurism?

    It's a bit difficult to make sense of British foreign policy for the last five centuries if they considered they were actually doing a job.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,751

    RobD said:

    Some of the Royals really are parasites.

    twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1016720982214574080

    According to wikipedia, RVO, three jubilee medals, Canadian forces decoration, NZ commemorative medal. A lot of turning up awards.
    So like going to a GP and finding out your Doctor has a PhD in Needlework.
    That's still a much higher level qualification than any GP holds, bearing in mind most of them only have a BM.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,837
    Having watched Horizon's "How to Build a Time Machine" I have concluded that there are several other little jobs around the house which must take priority on my day off tomorrow.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,399

    RobD said:

    Some of the Royals really are parasites.

    twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1016720982214574080

    According to wikipedia, RVO, three jubilee medals, Canadian forces decoration, NZ commemorative medal. A lot of turning up awards.
    So like going to a GP and finding out your Doctor has a PhD in Needlework.
    Well its not like you actually expect him to fight for you, is it? I'd trust Harry to get stuck in for us, Wills too probably.
    Prince Edward might just make it into a Concert Party.

    'It ain't half hot Ma'am'
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,399
    Scott_P said:
    Definitely time to sack the electorate.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 24,967

    ' See BBC news report of the 21st February together with report in the Independent 20th December 2017 and other reports '

    A report in February and another last December is hardly 'daily reports' of a 'fact' that the NHS is short of 100,000 workers.

    You've really fallen for this propaganda ???

    I bet you could find similar stories for every year back to 1948.

    Here's one from 2003:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1424261/NHS-being-held-back-by-shortage-of-trained-staff.html

    and this one's from 2007:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6228659.stm

    while this is from 1998:

    ' The National Health Service is facing serious difficulties because it is failing to retain staff.
    A report suggests that more than three quarters of all hospitals are struggling to keep and recruit nurses and midwives at all levels. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/173142.stm

    I blame Mrs Thatcher. Or at least, some nurses I spoke to did. Apparently the problem arose from Mrs T flogging off all the nurses' homes where student and single nurses used to live before most of them got married and moved out. It changed the arithmetic:
    crap pay - peppercorn rent = nurse;
    crap pay - commercial rent = look for a better-paid job.
    Wasn't the original suggested career path for NHS nurses 'marry a doctor' and it was only spinsterish Hattie Jacques types who made a life long career from it.

    I'm not sure a few more nurses homes would have that much effect when nursing is a degree requiring career.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited July 2018
    fitalass said:

    Cannot believe I am saying this, but Trump has a point. When even the richest nations like Germany don't meet their financial military obligations to NATO, and their military is simple not fit for purpose. They really are taking the US for a ride when it comes to expecting NATO to take up the flak and provide an effective Defence. https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1016781588158402567

    There are good historical reasons for not wanting a well-armed Germany.

    Trump sort of has a point but I'm not sure it is the point he thinks. On defence, all those foreign bases give America a lot of soft power, and keep the continental United States out of harm's way.

    On trade, yes, the Euro is a German racket and its trade surplus distorts the whole Eurozone but as well as seeing trade as a zero-sum game rather than being mutually beneficial, Trump has also convinced himself that VAT amounts to a tariff against American goods.

    ETA: inevitably, I suppose, America has a trade surplus with Britain: the deficit is ours.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,787

    I had dinner with a Leaver tonight he was so depressed.

    He said far too many Leavers think they've won the war, once we're out that's it.

    But in reality if Brexit is a disaster/doesn't match the promises of Leave the people will vote to overturn Brexit within a decade.

    He used to laugh at this article of mine, now he thinks it is prescient.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-brexiteers-junckers-fifth-columnists/

    They overreached and had a blinkered understanding of this country. Even people on this site, mentioning no names, who could be completely rational when discussing other EU member states would haughtily say that we were different and that they felt sorry for young Brits who felt they had a European identity as if they were suffering from some kind of false consciousness. In fact the referendum simply blew up the fragile status quo on which these exceptionalist beliefs were resting.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,572

    1. May can go to the Europeans now and effectively say 'Look this is a good deal for you, it's such a good deal 2 of my most senior cabinet ministers have resigned because of it. Don't push your look and ask for anymore'.

    She could, but she won't. She is desperate for a deal, however bad the terms offered, and with the Cabinet departures there will be no-one willing to stand up to her there. She won't find any backbone at the 11th hour with the EU.

    Basically, the Brexit deal we will be offered is whatever the EU feel they can get through the UK parliament. Further watering down may cause some Tories to vote against, but it could also get elements of Labour onside.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,400

    Scott_P said:
    Definitely time to sack the electorate.
    Long overdue.

    Over the period before and after the Cabinet chaos I note. That's probably...not very significant, since these polls seem to be remarkably steady.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    RobD said:

    Some of the Royals really are parasites.

    twitter.com/Redpeter99/status/1016720982214574080

    According to wikipedia, RVO, three jubilee medals, Canadian forces decoration, NZ commemorative medal. A lot of turning up awards.
    So like going to a GP and finding out your Doctor has a PhD in Needlework.
    If you are in A&E or surgery (albeit butchers are “Mr” not “Dr”) good needlework is a helpful skill
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    On trade, yes, the Euro is a German racket and its trade surplus distorts the whole Eurozone but as well as seeing trade as a zero-sum game rather than being mutually beneficial, Trump has also convinced himself that VAT amounts to a tariff against American goods.

    This article at the Washington Post sums it up.

    Anatomy of a Trump rally: 76 percent of claims are false, misleading or lacking evidence
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,572



    On trade, yes, the Euro is a German racket and its trade surplus distorts the whole Eurozone but as well as seeing trade as a zero-sum game rather than being mutually beneficial, Trump has also convinced himself that VAT amounts to a tariff against American goods.

    On trade, yes it can be mutually beneficial, but only if trade surpluses and deficits are relatively modest in relation to the overall volume of trade. That condition has not been met. The US has large trade deficits with the EU, and so does the UK with the rest of the EU.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    ' See BBC news report of the 21st February together with report in the Independent 20th December 2017 and other reports '

    A report in February and another last December is hardly 'daily reports' of a 'fact' that the NHS is short of 100,000 workers.

    You've really fallen for this propaganda ???

    I bet you could find similar stories for every year back to 1948.

    Here's one from 2003:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1424261/NHS-being-held-back-by-shortage-of-trained-staff.html

    and this one's from 2007:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6228659.stm

    while this is from 1998:

    ' The National Health Service is facing serious difficulties because it is failing to retain staff.
    A report suggests that more than three quarters of all hospitals are struggling to keep and recruit nurses and midwives at all levels. '

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/173142.stm

    I blame Mrs Thatcher. Or at least, some nurses I spoke to did. Apparently the problem arose from Mrs T flogging off all the nurses' homes where student and single nurses used to live before most of them got married and moved out. It changed the arithmetic:
    crap pay - peppercorn rent = nurse;
    crap pay - commercial rent = look for a better-paid job.
    Wasn't the original suggested career path for NHS nurses 'marry a doctor' and it was only spinsterish Hattie Jacques types who made a life long career from it.

    I'm not sure a few more nurses homes would have that much effect when nursing is a degree requiring career.
    Yes there is (or was) a lot of truth in that (and of course, nursing degrees are a recent requirement).
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842


    Basically, the Brexit deal we will be offered is whatever the EU feel they can get through the UK parliament. Further watering down may cause some Tories to vote against, but it could also get elements of Labour onside.

    What do we all think Corbyn might do if he's got a chance of both a hard brexit and stuffing the Tories ?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited July 2018

    I had dinner with a Leaver tonight he was so depressed.

    He said far too many Leavers think they've won the war, once we're out that's it.

    But in reality if Brexit is a disaster/doesn't match the promises of Leave the people will vote to overturn Brexit within a decade.

    He used to laugh at this article of mine, now he thinks it is prescient.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/10/18/the-brexiteers-junckers-fifth-columnists/

    But we haven't had and are not getting Brexit?

    So if things go wrong voters will turn against Theresa May's BINO - It remains to be seen whether that means they go back to REJOIN or move more towards Brexit Means Brexit.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    glw said:

    On trade, yes, the Euro is a German racket and its trade surplus distorts the whole Eurozone but as well as seeing trade as a zero-sum game rather than being mutually beneficial, Trump has also convinced himself that VAT amounts to a tariff against American goods.

    This article at the Washington Post sums it up.

    Anatomy of a Trump rally: 76 percent of claims are false, misleading or lacking evidence
    I wonder if they'll ever put as much effort into fact checking a Democrat. Somehow I doubt it....
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300



    On trade, yes, the Euro is a German racket and its trade surplus distorts the whole Eurozone but as well as seeing trade as a zero-sum game rather than being mutually beneficial, Trump has also convinced himself that VAT amounts to a tariff against American goods.

    On trade, yes it can be mutually beneficial, but only if trade surpluses and deficits are relatively modest in relation to the overall volume of trade. That condition has not been met. The US has large trade deficits with the EU, and so does the UK with the rest of the EU.
    Look at that photo of Boris in the back of the car.That's your trade deficit right there, Note the BMW badge on the front. Now show me a picture of Merkel, Macron or Giuseppe Conte in a foreign-made official car. Or Trump, come to think of it.
This discussion has been closed.