Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Davis is a wally, apparently acting alone. Brexiteers need to think hard about hitching themselves to this wagon
May is lucky.
perhaps it is already too late. i am pretty sure we were told some weeks ago that 40 letters had gone in. the times yesterdays was reporting that ten more were headed in (although iirc they had a lower figure later in the paper's reporting)
It has to be that May has concluded that it is inevitable tha5 she will be challenged, and now is the best moment to face it down - parliament about to go into recess - all sorted by conference. It is the onl6 explanation for the provocation on Friday.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
Davis is a wally, apparently acting alone. Brexiteers need to think hard about hitching themselves to this wagon
May is lucky.
Surely Johnson has to resign now? Gove should stay, I think.
I'd expect the whole deck of cards to collapse. Imagine you were Boris. Vanish without trace by doing nothing or resign and look like you were following a buffoon like Davis
I'm going to be unfashionable and say I don't think Davis is a buffoon. He tried to square the Brexit circle and failed. There was arrogance and delusion in his attempt but at least he tried, unlike the other Leavers. Sensible somewhat informed people supported Remain.
In any case no-one will care about Davis' reasons for resignation. The takeaway is that he dissociates himself from the cluster fuck he helped bring about.
I really don't get the position of the hard Leavers over the Chqeuers deal. I am very sympathetic with their argument that the spirit of the referendum needs to be respected as well as the letter. But this deal does that nearly everywhere, and even where it doesn't, it largely does.
There's a bunch of things hard Leavers care about:
- Controlling immigration - done - Ending huge payments to the EU mainly spent on farm subsidies - done - End of ECJ jurisdiction - done - Protecting the City from capricious regulation - done - Ability to sign our own trade deals - done 90%
The trade deals is the only bit in real debate here. We have absolute rights to negotiate access to the other side's markets. The main disagreement is that other countries might not want to sign trade deals because the UK can't negotiate on some things. But this clearly won't be the case in practice. Of potential trade deals, there is the USA, India, China, smaller rich countries and smaller poor countries.
Smaller poor countries - these are mostly going to sell us agricultural goods and the main barrier here is subsidies and tariffs, which we have control over.
Smaller rich countries - will mainly care about mined commodities, where product regulation isn't an issue, and services, where we have control.
China - mainly cares about manufacturing products, but their product standards are so low the difference between any potential UK and EU regulations is negligible. Quotas is the main thing they care about, where we have control.
India - cares a bit about manufacturing, where they are in the same position as China, but mainly about low wage services (IT, call centres etc), where we have control
USA - cares mainly about services and a fair amount about agriculture. Yes, their farmer lobby will be upset, but given it will be a locked in thing they change, the US foreign policy and trade establishment won't sink the deal just for them, especially when they can point to tariff reduction. Wall Street and other big service lobbies will overwhelm the donations too. Plus, it's likely any product regulation declines for the big, bad USA would likely be a focus of protesters and would sink any deal anyway.
Brexiteers need to not follow Davis and hold their fire in case something important is actually in danger.
I think they suspect that May and her Sir Humphrey will give everything away.
Its possible that this might give May an excuse that she can't make any more concessions.
Contrary POV: Davis’s resignation changes nothing. He has given BoJo an out by claiming he is resigning not against the white paper but against where he believes negotiations will end up. Boris can perhaps tell himself he can wait until the final agreement is clear.
A challenge to Theresa May is also not inevitable. The ERG do not have the numbers (and never have, save perhaps for a brief moment after the election). But if it goes that way, Theresa will win and the ERG will be humbled.
Theresa should put Grayling into Brexit and promote one of the Young Turks into Transport. Fox can stay where he is doing one of the other Brexit non-jobs.
Is now the point of maximum chance since the referendum that Brexit doesn't actually happen?
Probably. Though I think that would store up problems for the future.
The way to assuage the English nationalism it would stir up is to dissolve the UK.
I was thinking more that it envenom attitudes towards the political class.
If it's a choice between helping the political class save face and doing what's in the national interest we should do the latter. A new generation of politicians would emerge who are better able to operate in the new reality.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
Both parties face some existential choices. There is nascent third party out there somewhere.
People in this country are as much wedded to Labour / Tory as they are to the NHS. I’ve learnt over the years not to bother mentioning that most of Europe has a better performing health system which is not public sector.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
I'd be careful about talking about Help to Buy. It's a ticking time bomb for many first time buyers.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
I'd be careful about talking about Help to Buy. It's a ticking time bomb for many first time buyers.
Different point, he said they showed no interest in home ownership, it shows they did.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Now you're being a very silly billy.
That's the foreign secretary FFS. Wake up old chap.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Mrs. T upping the ante actually over the Rebate helped reconcile a lot of people to EU membership.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
To be fair Help to Buy is generally thought to have put prices up and support house builders rather than house buyers
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Even under Thatcher the CBI talked of a bare-knuckle fight with the government.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
"First you let the Leavers have their referendum, and then you let them win it!"
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Now you're being a very silly billy.
That's the foreign secretary FFS. Wake up old chap.
Boris Johnson does not equate the Conservative Party. You should get some sleep, old bean.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
I'm not, at the moment it's 20 remainer ultras holding the rest of the party to ransom. How long do you think they could hold out against a new leader? Against their own constituency chairs? Against standard members who are vast majority leave?
When the party was in favour of EU membership and more integration the leadership was out of step with at least half of MPs and most of the membership, now that it favours leaving the EU it opposes less than a tenth of MPs and maybe 20% of members. I call that more united.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
I've shown more attention to detail in looking at strawberries in Tesco than George Osborne ever did when preparing a Budget.
Or he did in looking at the economic data as Shadow Chancellor.
George Osborne the Shadow Chancellor who failed to predict a recession which happened.
And perhaps you'd like to tell us the number of generals we have and how many full sized divisions the British army can field.
Or what the ratio of Admirals to warships the RN has.
Help To Buy helped to increase house prices, personally I don't consider that a good thing.
Nor did I consider tripling student fees at the same time as triple locking pensions as good either.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
So the first escapees have managed to leave after being trapped for so long? "I never thought I'd see the outside again" sobbed one boy known only as 'David' or 'Flounce' to his mates. "I thought we'd be trapped for ever. The coach got us into all this trouble but held us together for so long when it seemed impossible." It was after a particularly traumatic day stuck together on Friday that rescuers realised that it was too risky to wait any longer to try to get them out. It's believed further departures will take place as soon as conditions allow. The coach may well escape but face legal action about their reckless behaviour to get them all trapped in the first place.
Honestly if Private Eye can't make mincemeat of this lot......
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Now you're being a very silly billy.
Indeed, I hope Boris resigns today. Not only will he then be out of government, it should be enough to bring down our loser PM.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
I'm not, at the moment it's 20 remainer ultras holding the rest of the party to ransom. How long do you think they could hold out against a new leader? Against their own constituency chairs? Against standard members who are vast majority leave?
When the party was in favour of EU membership and more integration the leadership was out of step with at least half of MPs and most of the membership, now that it favours leaving the EU it opposes less than a tenth of MPs and maybe 20% of members. I call that more united.
The real difference is that before the referendum, the arguments could play out between people with fundamental differences with no external force to settle the matter. Since invoking Article 50, those positions are now being tested against the reality of the UK's position in the world. A theological dispute doesn't cut it when we have to face up to existential choices in the real world.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Mrs. T upping the ante actually over the Rebate helped reconcile a lot of people to EU membership.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
I was more thinking of the mid-late 1980s, rather than the rebate fight which I thought was somewhat earlier; perhaps I'm mistaken.
Not sure I agree on your general point. The broad Thatcherite economic settlement hasn't been seriously challenged by any section or faction of the party, up to and including George Osborne.
Is now the point of maximum chance since the referendum that Brexit doesn't actually happen?
Probably. Though I think that would store up problems for the future.
The way to assuage the English nationalism it would stir up is to dissolve the UK.
I was thinking more that it envenom attitudes towards the political class.
If it's a choice between helping the political class save face and doing what's in the national interest we should do the latter. A new generation of politicians would emerge who are better able to operate in the new reality.
Perhaps but I think we need to consider who would want to be a politician in this day and age. The lack of talent ought to be telling us something.
The bastards bluff has been called and then there were nine.....
What a pathetic lilly livered bunch the Tory cabinet are. The only thing that is saving their miserable government is Corbyn. Time to abandon Brexit once and for all.
Do you not feel the result of the referendum should be respected in any way? Even in the softest of soft brexits such as single market membership? We are not some tin pot nation that can just ignore something so large and so important. We could fudge it, but not ignore it. We dont do that.
I think if Theresa May or a replacement Tory was to turn around and say "this was all a terrible idea, let's call it off" and use a mandate they (barely) won on the promise they would deliver Brexit, it would be a disaster. What wouldn't, however, is seeking a democratic mandate that supersedes the referendum - either a new vote or going to the country and winning an election on a promise to halt Brexit. It would be the opposite of 'tinpot' as what makes for a healthy democracy is that no mandate is permanent or inviolable. If politicians screw up badly you have to be able to stop them doing so - and if, either because it's an impossible task or because our politicians are not up to it, Brexit is undeliverable in a form that isn't disastrous economically or politically (Brexiteers will make the same complaints about a soft Brexit that they make about none at all) then it's right to revisit the issue rather than blindly go ahead because it respects a nebulous will that is already out of date on the detail.
Whether such a vote or election would be won by remain, is of course open to conjecture - the evidence is that opinion has hardened on both sides but changed little, and that a lot would depend on the nature of the campaign and how each side capitalised on events since the 2016 vote. But people have every right to say "there's no good answer to this, except stopping it" and seeking to persuade the nation (or enough of it to win a mandate).
A single market Brexit would not be economically disastrous. It would mean no longer a member of the EU, no longer contributing to its budget other than for our proportional costs to maintain and police the single market. Business would not notice a single thing. A few flags might need changed, and we would probably save net £5 billion in contributions, and revise our in work and out of work benefits system to stop acting as a draw to low skilled workers.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
I'm not, at the moment it's 20 remainer ultras holding the rest of the party to ransom. How long do you think they could hold out against a new leader? Against their own constituency chairs? Against standard members who are vast majority leave?
When the party was in favour of EU membership and more integration the leadership was out of step with at least half of MPs and most of the membership, now that it favours leaving the EU it opposes less than a tenth of MPs and maybe 20% of members. I call that more united.
The real difference is that before the referendum, the arguments could play out between people with fundamental differences with no external force to settle the matter. Since invoking Article 50, those positions are now being tested against the reality of the UK's position in the world. A theological dispute doesn't cut it when we have to face up to existential choices in the real world.
No, they are being tested against May and Remainer Robbins' shite negotiation strategy. Getting rid of May also gets rid of Robbins, it would be a win on two counts. Dumping Hammond would be another gain.
Mr. Booth, indeed. Said it before but the media focus on politicians rather than policies means that the smallest difference of opinion or honest error leads to a scalp-hunt and hysterical headlines, whereas legislative blunders, or just plain poor drafting, often go unremarked upon until consequences ensue.
More focus on policies and less on the individuals involved in politics would lead to us being much better governed.
Then, they negotiate the CETA deal and put it up for a vote.
The deal you outlined is not negotiable with the EU, and in any case trade negotiations wouldn't start until after we leave and the backstop becomes part of an international treaty.
The ONLY part of the CETA deal that the EU have shown the slightest problem with relates to NI. The rest they have already said would be fine.
If May stood up to Barnier on this the EU would have conceded a MaxFac fudge on NI - the rest of the EU would never have gone for no deal over such a trivial matter.
It was negotiating blackmail used on a weak and stupid leader whose main adviser wanted to be blackmailed to force a soft Brexit. No wonder DD told her not to do it.
"Parliament will decide and will not allow a hard Brexit." It will only allow its own version of Brexit and that is BINO. Why did they then vote for a referendum for the people to decide.
Perhaps you recall a general election being held last year, in which we elected Parliamentary representatives to implement the Brexit vote. You may not like how they are doing but hey, that’s democracy.
Perhaps you recall a general election being held last year, in which we elected Parliamentary representatives of whom 85% stood under a banner of Hard Brexit which they are now refusing to enact. That is not democracy.
Davis is a wally, apparently acting alone. Brexiteers need to think hard about hitching themselves to this wagon
May is lucky.
I don't think Davis is a wally at all. He understands the subtleties. He is amiable and clubbable. He has tried to square the circle, but he has been sidelined by the PM and is now expected to execute her strategy which he doesn't believe in. He did the right thing in resigning.
I think the next Brexit secretary will be Gove. Allegedly he swung the argument for the PM at Chequers. He is energetic and creative - in many ways the pole opposite of Davis - and might be able to salvage something out of this PT.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Now you're being a very silly billy.
That's the foreign secretary FFS. Wake up old chap.
Boris Johnson does not equate the Conservative Party. You should get some sleep, old bean.
Nah, Fuck business is clearly a view compatible with being in the Tory cabinet. Just imagine if a Labour politician had said that. The Tories are and ideological obsessed rump, not even competent administrators.
Has a politician ever been as diminished by the realities of government as Boris Johnson has been?
Actually my biggest gripe against Boris was him cancelling that bridge in east London connecting Beckton and Thamesmead, with IIRC some sort of integral right of way for either buses or DLR trains.
In other news I see the USA just tried to browbeat the nations of the world to oppose a WHO resolution in favour of breast-feeding.
Just tried to read the text not as easy as you might think, only portions are available, it was a bit more than that. It was about banning the promotion of formula and funding states that try to ban it. Virtue signalling wank. Perpetual breast feeding is a middle class fantasy. It can be useful for the first few weeks and then many mothers move onto formula. Nothing wrong with that.
Baby formula providers lie.
They lie about breast feeding, they lie about their formula. In third world countries they lie blatantly, openly and directly, in first world countries they find midwife 'education' and get the mid wives to peddle their lies for them.
Their lies have killed babies and impoverished families around the world.
In the developed world it is not much of an issue. Fox Jr was bottle fed after a month or so. In the developing world where marketing drives sales and clean water and equipment are rarely adequate it is a killer. US Republicans only like unborn babies, after they have been born they are just marketing opportunities.
Here in Edinburgh you get a big heavy dose of "Breast is best" and active discouragement from formula feeding and I had assumed it was the same country wide but it seems in England it varies health board by health board. I've read some pretty nasty stories about high pressure attempts by midwives to get parents to switch to formula including claiming the parents would will kill their child unless they switched to formula.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
Both parties face some existential choices. There is nascent third party out there somewhere.
People in this country are as much wedded to Labour / Tory as they are to the NHS. I’ve learnt over the years not to bother mentioning that most of Europe has a better performing health system which is not public sector.
Which they spend more money on.
Happy to try one of these health systems if you are happy to pay the more money that is required.
As Robert Smithson tells us UK GDP increases more when someone buys an iPad with borrowed money than the GDP of USA and China increase from designing and making it.
And then there's imputed rent as discussed yesterday - as house prices increase GDP increases.
The obsession with GDP has been one of the more malign factors in the modern world.
The Brexit Bulldog being interviewed. The Tories really dodged a bullet when they rejected him for Cameron.
You say that but Cameron is the primary architect of this monstrous carbuncle.
Yes but its become obvious that Cameron knew that the question he was about to ask was both absurd and in any event not doable. But he also knew there were some zealots on the periphery who in a very close election he needed to buy off.
So humouring them by holding a referendum that he knew Remain would win was perfectly logical. He just didn't realise that the very act of calling a referendum would give the insane idea credibility
Very astute comment.
After shooting an ad for an outdoor swimming pool in Scotland I discovered that the public will buy anything however absurd if you offer it to them
Then, they negotiate the CETA deal and put it up for a vote.
The deal you outlined is not negotiable with the EU, and in any case trade negotiations wouldn't start until after we leave and the backstop becomes part of an international treaty.
The ONLY part of the CETA deal that the EU have shown the slightest problem with relates to NI. The rest they have already said would be fine.
That's because the rest of what you wrote hasn't been presented to them. They see CETA as something like the Canadian agreement. You seem to see it as something like the Australia-New Zealand Closer Economic Relations agreement.
I am happy with CETA as it is, adjusted for no tariffs and no quotas, which the EU will agree. Campbell-Bannerman did a high level mark up which showed how little would need to be changed to get it to work.
I think a streamlined customs regime makes sense for both sides but if they refuse, that is up to them. The UK will adapt to a bit of border friction. It will hurt them as well.
So CETA is quite deliverable, as Barnier's famous slide made clear. It is Remainers who offered the NI backstop that blocked this approach.
CETA is deliverable (with a long transition) but not for the whole UK. Just accept that the Brexit you want is not compatible with the union and then it would be possible to have a much more rational discussion about it.
I am so sorry that I am judged irrational. But then, I have clearly explained in detail how a MaxFac / NI border could work; you on the other hand have just repeated your position ad nauseam without actually explaining why it is not possible. I know it is a lot easier to repeat dogma than to debate, but I am not sure that it is particularly rational to think that anyone will take you seriously.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
Now you're being a very silly billy.
That's the foreign secretary FFS. Wake up old chap.
Boris Johnson does not equate the Conservative Party. You should get some sleep, old bean.
Nah, Fuck business is clearly a view compatible with being in the Tory cabinet. Just imagine if a Labour politician had said that. The Tories are and ideological obsessed rump, not even competent administrators.
I have made it absolutely clear that Boris FO comment finally turned me off a hard Brexit and as a conservative I will do everything I can to prevent it including only voting for a non Brexiteer for leader. Do not judge all conservatives by the ramblings of the Brexiteers
In other news I see the USA just tried to browbeat the nations of the world to oppose a WHO resolution in favour of breast-feeding.
Just tried to read the text not as easy as you might think, only portions are available, it was a bit more than that. It was about banning the promotion of formula and funding states that try to ban it. Virtue signalling wank. Perpetual breast feeding is a middle class fantasy. It can be useful for the first few weeks and then many mothers move onto formula. Nothing wrong with that.
Baby formula providers lie.
They lie about breast feeding, they lie about their formula. In third world countries they lie blatantly, openly and directly, in first world countries they find midwife 'education' and get the mid wives to peddle their lies for them.
Their lies have killed babies and impoverished families around the world.
In the developed world it is not much of an issue. Fox Jr was bottle fed after a month or so. In the developing world where marketing drives sales and clean water and equipment are rarely adequate it is a killer. US Republicans only like unborn babies, after they have been born they are just marketing opportunities.
Here in Edinburgh you get a big heavy dose of "Breast is best" and active discouragement from formula feeding and I had assumed it was the same country wide but it seems in England it varies health board by health board. I've read some pretty nasty stories about high pressure attempts by midwives to get parents to switch to formula including claiming the parents would will kill their child unless they switched to formula.
I ve had kids in two authority areas in England and the approach seems to be to pressurise and intimaidate / shame mothers into breast feeding, whilst providing little or no support at the time. My wife had a nasty incident over the course of one night where she couldn’t lift the baby due to having had a c section which got infected, and the overnight healthcare assistant refused to help and said she would need to lift him herself. Like any bureaucracy what is said and reality often don’t match.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
I'd be careful about talking about Help to Buy. It's a ticking time bomb for many first time buyers.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Mrs. T upping the ante actually over the Rebate helped reconcile a lot of people to EU membership.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
I was more thinking of the mid-late 1980s, rather than the rebate fight which I thought was somewhat earlier; perhaps I'm mistaken.
Not sure I agree on your general point. The broad Thatcherite economic settlement hasn't been seriously challenged by any section or faction of the party, up to and including George Osborne.
It's more that big business favours a borderless world, whereas most Tory voters hate the idea (and this is an argument that is not confined to the UK).
Fruit is being left to rot, unpicked on Scottish fruit farms only a few weeks into the season.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
Has a politician ever been as diminished by the realities of government as Boris Johnson has been?
Actually my biggest gripe against Boris was him cancelling that bridge in east London connecting Beckton and Thamesmead, with IIRC some sort of integral right of way for either buses or DLR trains.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Mrs. T upping the ante actually over the Rebate helped reconcile a lot of people to EU membership.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
I was more thinking of the mid-late 1980s, rather than the rebate fight which I thought was somewhat earlier; perhaps I'm mistaken.
Not sure I agree on your general point. The broad Thatcherite economic settlement hasn't been seriously challenged by any section or faction of the party, up to and including George Osborne.
It's more that big business favours a borderless world, whereas most Tory voters hate the idea (and this is an argument that is not confined to the UK).
Big Business wants a world where it can produce at Third World costs, sell at First World prices and pay tax at Monaco rates.
Fruit is being left to rot, unpicked on Scottish fruit farms only a few weeks into the season.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
Considering that we are both at full employment and no regulations have changed left this seems like basic supply and demand. Is Meg Marshall paying her pickers more than minimum wage? If not maybe she needs to pay more to attract workers.
Fruit is being left to rot, unpicked on Scottish fruit farms only a few weeks into the season.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
Considering that we are both at full employment and no regulations have changed left this seems like basic supply and demand. Is Meg Marshall paying her pickers more than minimum wage? If not maybe she needs to pay more to attract workers.
The fact the article indicates this has been happening for years again indicates that low wages aren't sufficient to attract 250 people. Funny that.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Mrs. T upping the ante actually over the Rebate helped reconcile a lot of people to EU membership.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
I was more thinking of the mid-late 1980s, rather than the rebate fight which I thought was somewhat earlier; perhaps I'm mistaken.
Not sure I agree on your general point. The broad Thatcherite economic settlement hasn't been seriously challenged by any section or faction of the party, up to and including George Osborne.
It's more that big business favours a borderless world, whereas most Tory voters hate the idea (and this is an argument that is not confined to the UK).
This is why being aggressively pro-European is actually the answer because you get to have a large enough internal market to support pro-business policies while also being able to address concerns about cultural change. Whether they express it that way or not, the average Conservative voter who is worried about open borders wants Britain to be more European and less global.
Fruit is being left to rot, unpicked on Scottish fruit farms only a few weeks into the season.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
Is now the point of maximum chance since the referendum that Brexit doesn't actually happen?
Probably. Though I think that would store up problems for the future.
The way to assuage the English nationalism it would stir up is to dissolve the UK.
I was thinking more that it envenom attitudes towards the political class.
If it's a choice between helping the political class save face and doing what's in the national interest we should do the latter. A new generation of politicians would emerge who are better able to operate in the new reality.
Perhaps but I think we need to consider who would want to be a politician in this day and age. The lack of talent ought to be telling us something.
Quite. I’m sure there are many talented people out there who would make excellent ministers and believe in public service - but just couldn’t bear to put their families through everything that modern political life entails.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
Both parties face some existential choices. There is nascent third party out there somewhere.
People in this country are as much wedded to Labour / Tory as they are to the NHS. I’ve learnt over the years not to bother mentioning that most of Europe has a better performing health system which is not public sector.
Which they spend more money on.
Happy to try one of these health systems if you are happy to pay the more money that is required.
I’d happily move to the German model and pay for it. I lived there when I was a student, and saw nothing but good from it. I’d happily to the French model - we’ve had to use it with my youngest whilst on holiday and it was excellent. It always gets me that here people repeatedly say that the NHS is free. It’s not free we all pay for it.
It's not just Davis though, a whole succession of MPs were explaining what the deal really meant over the weekend, and it was blindingly obvious that they were making explicitly contradictory claims.
May's "agreement" is every bit as worthless as Cameron's "renegotiation".
Mr. P, that's odd. How would it work, functionally?
A full public inquiry into Vote Leave would have the potential to throw into doubt the validity of the vote. An inquiry could take quite some time. Would we have to suspend leaving for that period? If not, it would seem daft. And if no dodginess is proven, then public money will be seen, fairly or not, to have been used in a pro-EU cause again.
I think that depends: how scared is JRM about Hammond ending up PM and how scared is Kenneth Clarke about JRM making it to Number 10? There are a lot of non ERG leavers who just want the whole thing over and done with, and fear that a leadership contest could end up jeopardizing the government and therefore Brexit itself.
My personal view is that Davis has just given the EU an excuse to reject the deal. I.e.: "look the UK government doesn't even believe in it, come back when you've decided."
No poll currently puts Corbyn anywhere near a pletely unusual at the moment
I'm afraid your reliance on sub-samples will not be sufficient to save a divided party from the wrath of the electorate.
I am afraid you fail to understand the fury from the Leave voting majority of Tory voters if the Leave vote they voted for is not properly respected. By the time of the next general election we have to be out of the EU and have properly ended FOM and left ather than vote for 'that woman' after in his words 'she has betrayed the Brexit vote'
It is ignoring the reasons behind the Brexit vote that will hit the Tory vote hardest not respecting it, Corbyn will also face problems with his Remain voting base sooner or later accepted and defections to the LDs if he persists on indisting on leaving the single market as he will to try and keep marginal working class Labour Leave seats
Tories will lose more on the south than they gain elsewhere. I suspect the Scottish Tory MPs could also suffer. The Remain MPs will not vote for WTO or any kind of hard Brexit . It's over.
Tory seats in the South beyond university towns will never vote for a Corbyn led Labpur Party even if they voted Remain. 8 of the top 10 Tory target seats they need for a majority are Labour Leave seats in the North and Midlands.
All but a tiny handful of Tory MPs have already voted to Leave the Single Market
They will lose the key fights though. No deal is now coming, fewer sup port that.
Most Leave voters polled back hard Brexit and 408 out of 650 constituencies in the House of Commons voted Leave
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
Both parties face some existential choices. There is nascent third party out there somewhere.
People in this country are as much wedded to Labour / Tory as they are to the NHS. I’ve learnt over the years not to bother mentioning that most of Europe has a better performing health system which is not public sector.
Which they spend more money on.
Happy to try one of these health systems if you are happy to pay the more money that is required.
I’d happily move to the German model and pay for it. I lived there when I was a student, and saw nothing but good from it. I’d happily to the French model - we’ve had to use it with my youngest whilst on holiday and it was excellent. It always gets me that here people repeatedly say that the NHS is free. It’s not free we all pay for it.
But when people they want to switch to system X they leave out that system X costs more money overall than the NHS.
It kind of begs the question what would the NHS be like if it was given as much money as system X?
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Mrs. T upping the ante actually over the Rebate helped reconcile a lot of people to EU membership.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
I was more thinking of the mid-late 1980s, rather than the rebate fight which I thought was somewhat earlier; perhaps I'm mistaken.
Not sure I agree on your general point. The broad Thatcherite economic settlement hasn't been seriously challenged by any section or faction of the party, up to and including George Osborne.
It's more that big business favours a borderless world, whereas most Tory voters hate the idea (and this is an argument that is not confined to the UK).
Big Business wants a world where it can produce at Third World costs, sell at First World prices and pay tax at Monaco rates.
Indeed, that is definitely part of the problem. Chinese labour costs, UK prices, Irish "entity" tax rates at 0.4% (all of this is actually true in the case of Apple).
Big business can be a huge engine of growth in the country, and I'm definitely not of the Boris school, however, the side which paints them as an exclusive force for good is just as blinkered.
Davis is a wally, apparently acting alone. Brexiteers need to think hard about hitching themselves to this wagon
May is lucky.
I don't think Davis is a wally at all. He understands the subtleties. He is amiable and clubbable. He has tried to square the circle, but he has been sidelined by the PM and is now expected to execute her strategy which he doesn't believe in. He did the right thing in resigning.
I think the next Brexit secretary will be Gove. Allegedly he swung the argument for the PM at Chequers. He is energetic and creative - in many ways the pole opposite of Davis - and might be able to salvage something out of this PT.
No doubt Mrs Gove thinks that this is the way into No 10, she already has the curtains made up ready to install. However, there is still the problem that Gove has a face which most people want to, almost instinctively, slap
It was obvious that PB would have at least one expert in the economics of soft fruit production, aware of every nuance of profit margins and cost base.
If only the actual growers of fruit listened to them...
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
You should have been worrying a decade ago when Cameron and Osborne showed no interest in aspiration and home ownership or any inclination towards proper preparation and attention to details.
Stick to talking about strawberries.
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
I've shown more attention to detail in looking at strawberries in Tesco than George Osborne ever did when preparing a Budget.
Or he did in looking at the economic data as Shadow Chancellor.
George Osborne the Shadow Chancellor who failed to predict a recession which happened.
And perhaps you'd like to tell us the number of generals we have and how many full sized divisions the British army can field.
Or what the ratio of Admirals to warships the RN has.
Help To Buy helped to increase house prices, personally I don't consider that a good thing.
Nor did I consider tripling student fees at the same time as triple locking pensions as good either.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
The Tories are the party of fuck business today. It's over.
It is Leave voting provincial Middle England that wins the Tories elections, not big business
Has a politician ever been as diminished by the realities of government as Boris Johnson has been?
Actually my biggest gripe against Boris was him cancelling that bridge in east London connecting Beckton and Thamesmead, with IIRC some sort of integral right of way for either buses or DLR trains.
Is this the Boris Bridge that the Met are now looking for a missing £40 million or so?
No. The Thames Gateway Bridge did arguably fulfil a need: which is why (I believe) there's a successor project stagnating somewhere. The Garden Bridge was a poster-child for vanity projects that fulfilled no need, aside from : "Gee, wouldn't it be cool if..."
There is a need for more road connectivity between the QE2 bridge / Dartford Tunnel and the Blackwall Tunnel.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
The Tories have fought like ferrets in a sack as long as I can remember. Logically, they ought to have split long ago, but our electoral system keeps them together (Labour, too, of course).
The Tories' Euro fault-line has lasted for30 years (although from the 1960s the party has always had a fairly strong anti faction), since the mid 1980s when Mrs T started to up the ante.
Mrs. T upping the ante actually over the Rebate helped reconcile a lot of people to EU membership.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
I was more thinking of the mid-late 1980s, rather than the rebate fight which I thought was somewhat earlier; perhaps I'm mistaken.
Not sure I agree on your general point. The broad Thatcherite economic settlement hasn't been seriously challenged by any section or faction of the party, up to and including George Osborne.
It's more that big business favours a borderless world, whereas most Tory voters hate the idea (and this is an argument that is not confined to the UK).
Big business has always been in favour of high regulation creating barriers to entry, and as few people as possible that need to be lobbied. I’d expect to see the Conservatives standing up for small and medium businesses over large multinationals - especially those making threats in public rather than in private, in an attempt to influence policy.
It's not just Davis though, a whole succession of MPs were explaining what the deal really meant over the weekend, and it was blindingly obvious that they were making explicitly contradictory claims.
May's "agreement" is every bit as worthless as Cameron's "renegotiation".
I'd say even more so, given that the EU had agreed to whatever limited changes Dave's dodgy deal had in it. The EU haven't agreed to May's deal, and given that they have never compromised on free movement by even 1%, I don't see that it would.
I'm actually broadly in favour of the deal, I just don't see how Brussels can accept it.
Fruit is being left to rot, unpicked on Scottish fruit farms only a few weeks into the season.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
Perhaps Eastern Europeans now have better opportunities, both in this country, and at home. There are huge numbers of Eastern Europeans living here, after all.
Like JohnO I really do worry about the long term health of our party.
Seems like a sick joke when I was told before the referendum that only a Leave victory would unite the Tory party on Europe.
Both parties face some existential choices. There is nascent third party out there somewhere.
People in this country are as much wedded to Labour / Tory as they are to the NHS. I’ve learnt over the years not to bother mentioning that most of Europe has a better performing health system which is not public sector.
Which they spend more money on.
Happy to try one of these health systems if you are happy to pay the more money that is required.
I’d happily move to the German model and pay for it. I lived there when I was a student, and saw nothing but good from it. I’d happily to the French model - we’ve had to use it with my youngest whilst on holiday and it was excellent. It always gets me that here people repeatedly say that the NHS is free. It’s not free we all pay for it.
But when people they want to switch to system X they leave out that system X costs more money overall than the NHS.
It kind of begs the question what would the NHS be like if it was given as much money as system X?
I am no expert but I seem to recall that we have funded as generously and we were still worse. There is an inherent weakness into having a ‘free’ service - insatiable demand.
Fruit is being left to rot, unpicked on Scottish fruit farms only a few weeks into the season.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
Fruit is being left to rot, unpicked on Scottish fruit farms only a few weeks into the season.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
Perhaps Eastern Europeans now have better opportunities, both in this country, and at home. There are huge numbers of Eastern Europeans living here, after all.
With more Eastern Europeans working in the UK than ever before why do some farmers claim they cannot get enough workers ?
Perhaps they don't pay the going rate while those that do do get the workers they want.
Comments
Or if we want a laugh the number of generals in the army.
Almost like Help To Buy didn’t help in your world.
In any case no-one will care about Davis' reasons for resignation. The takeaway is that he dissociates himself from the cluster fuck he helped bring about.
Its possible that this might give May an excuse that she can't make any more concessions.
Or possibly not.
A challenge to Theresa May is also not inevitable. The ERG do not have the numbers (and never have, save perhaps for a brief moment after the election). But if it goes that way, Theresa will win and the ERG will be humbled.
Theresa should put Grayling into Brexit and promote one of the Young Turks into Transport. Fox can stay where he is doing one of the other Brexit non-jobs.
But, I think if it wasn't Europe it would be something else. It's very hard now to reconcile the desires of big business with the desires of the average Conservative voter.
When the party was in favour of EU membership and more integration the leadership was out of step with at least half of MPs and most of the membership, now that it favours leaving the EU it opposes less than a tenth of MPs and maybe 20% of members. I call that more united.
Or he did in looking at the economic data as Shadow Chancellor.
George Osborne the Shadow Chancellor who failed to predict a recession which happened.
And perhaps you'd like to tell us the number of generals we have and how many full sized divisions the British army can field.
Or what the ratio of Admirals to warships the RN has.
Help To Buy helped to increase house prices, personally I don't consider that a good thing.
Nor did I consider tripling student fees at the same time as triple locking pensions as good either.
Honestly if Private Eye can't make mincemeat of this lot......
Not sure I agree on your general point. The broad Thatcherite economic settlement hasn't been seriously challenged by any section or faction of the party, up to and including George Osborne.
More focus on policies and less on the individuals involved in politics would lead to us being much better governed.
https://twitter.com/andrew_adonis/status/1016094865007013895?s=21
I think the next Brexit secretary will be Gove. Allegedly he swung the argument for the PM at Chequers. He is energetic and creative - in many ways the pole opposite of Davis - and might be able to salvage something out of this PT.
EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Gateway_Bridge
Mrs May would like to appoint Dominic Raab Brexit Secretary.
However David Davis is urging him to resign.
Raab was Chief of Staff to Davis, so was/is close to him.
Happy to try one of these health systems if you are happy to pay the more money that is required.
And then there's imputed rent as discussed yesterday - as house prices increase GDP increases.
The obsession with GDP has been one of the more malign factors in the modern world.
"Back the plan or get a hard-right prime minister and no-deal"?
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1016238245015900160
Sweep the corruption under the carpet to ensure the implementation of the he corruption.
A combination of fewer foreign workers and the month-long heatwave has pushed some farms to the brink of disaster with most of the picking season still to come. Fruit farmers have been warning for the past few years that the declining number of foreign workers coming to Scotland each summer was leading to a crisis.
Meg Marshall, of Muirton Farm near Blairgowrie, said she was between 50 and 100 pickers short of the 250 she needed to harvest her crop of raspberries, strawberries, blueberries and cherries. Like almost all fruit farms in Angus and Perthshire, Muirton relies on eastern European seasonal labour to get the crop from the fields to the market.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/scotland/crops-rot-on-bushes-as-fruit-pickers-stay-away-mx8scszrc
Time for the Brexiteers to get on their bikes?
If he backs TM then 'nothing changes' !!!!!!
The fact the article indicates this has been happening for years again indicates that low wages aren't sufficient to attract 250 people. Funny that.
May's "agreement" is every bit as worthless as Cameron's "renegotiation".
A full public inquiry into Vote Leave would have the potential to throw into doubt the validity of the vote. An inquiry could take quite some time. Would we have to suspend leaving for that period? If not, it would seem daft. And if no dodginess is proven, then public money will be seen, fairly or not, to have been used in a pro-EU cause again.
It kind of begs the question what would the NHS be like if it was given as much money as system X?
Big business can be a huge engine of growth in the country, and I'm definitely not of the Boris school, however, the side which paints them as an exclusive force for good is just as blinkered.
If only the actual growers of fruit listened to them...
There is a need for more road connectivity between the QE2 bridge / Dartford Tunnel and the Blackwall Tunnel.
I'm actually broadly in favour of the deal, I just don't see how Brussels can accept it.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/employeejobsbyindustryjobs03
The latest 12 months had an average of 237 thousand agricultural employees, the years before that were 221k, 210k, 206k, 201k, 193k.
Perhaps they don't pay the going rate while those that do do get the workers they want.