This is so right, its either May's deal or No deal
No Deal is better than May's deal.
Don't take our word for it, take May's. Was it not May herself who said "No Deal is better than a bad deal"?
Losing all say in the EU's rules but being forced to take the rules still is the worst of all worlds. It is worse than Remaining, it is worse than Leaving in full. It pleases nobody and is not what anyone sane would ever want as an end state. It is quite patently a bad deal.
Did May mean it or was she just a self-serving vacillating liar when she said that "No Deal is better than a bad deal"?
It could be that she knows that the EU will never accept anything other than what they want, hence she can say that it is the EUs fault that No Deal that has happened and that she has done all she can
If that were the case she ought to be doing more to prepare for a backstop of No Deal.
There has been a lot of "No Deal" chat put about in interviews with Brexiters.. "we could go to WTO with no problems..>". On Pienaar, DP, etc. It is certainly a narrative that is gaining exposure.
I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?
I believe the claim is that they have to be chlorinated because the quality of meat / animal welfare standards aren't as high as in the EU.
I believe in the power of the market, if people don't want object to eating it, it will have to be clearly labelled where it comes from and so people can simply just not buy it.
Only if it is allowed to be labelled, the US wants it not to be.
Brexite era leaving the sinking ship, but May likely to survive methinks.
Yes, Boris's plan now will be to out-Mogg Mogg - he'll wrap himself in tweed, start smoking a curly pipe and sing 'There'll always be an England'. Sadly, that's the only constituency that will still be taking him seriously. It's a terrible decline.
I wonder if future generations get to write an essay on how David Cameron killed the Conservative party ?
He tried to save it until he was betrayed by the shits/Leavers.
How was he betrayed by Leavers?
If you give people a choice to Remain or Leave then Leavers are going to back Leave. That's not betraying, its following his wish for people to have a choice.
Brexit is now dead in any meaningful sense. The UK will either withdraw article 50 completely or accept vassal status and stay in all the EU economic structure with no say in the political structure.
Brexit is now dead in any meaningful sense. The UK will either withdraw article 50 completely or accept vassal status and stay in all the EU economic structure with no say in the political structure.
I wonder if future generations get to write an essay on how David Cameron killed the Conservative party ?
He tried to save it until he was betrayed by the shits/Leavers.
How was he betrayed by Leavers?
If you give people a choice to Remain or Leave then Leavers are going to back Leave. That's not betraying, its following his wish for people to have a choice.
So the biggest beast in the Brexiteer jungle, the Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has resigned from the Cabinet and the hard Brexit battalions in the Tory ranks are massing for an all out assault on May and her Great Brexit Fudge led by Generals Boris, Davis and Mogg.
It looks highly likely there will be a confidence vote and it is not now impossible Boris could be PM by the end of the summer. Personally though I think May will scrape a victory in a confidence vote it will be a vote just leaving her on probation until the end of the transition period and no longer
On a more/less serious note (depending on your outlook) - I have to say that I'm not really looking forward to helping out in a GE campaign during such hot weather if it comes to that...
When I last looked at the forecast last week there was thought to be a good chance that the hot weather would come to an end by the start of August.
Great statement by Chuka. My guess is a General election followed by the re-run of the referendum. Followed by Remain with a large majority. Someone just asked if Boris wasn't taking a principled stance!!!!!!!!
It's the way he tells 'em....
Your guess on all three points will be wrong.
The Conservatives still have a majority with the DUP and neither side has an interest in risking that right now. How does an election come about?
Even if there was an election and Labour won, why would Corbyn agree to a second referendum, and with what questions?
All polling points to two deeply divided camps with a few floaters. Neither side would win by a large majority; either side could win.
Expect Brady to announce a Tory leadership election by the end of the day.
Confidence motion comes first I think.
TM has to lose a confidence vote.
Today we are witnessing the end of the Brexiteers. It is either May's way or remain
That's definitely not true. It's the May plan or No deal. If the party puts any kind of remain on a ballot paper we'll be out of power for a generation.
Parliament as a whole may
How? There's no majority in Parliament for a rerun. It would have to be a government sponsored bill and a three line whip to tie the party to it. We'd have to own putting remain back on the agenda, and we'd pay for it. 17.4m people voted to leave, a majority of them our own supporters. I don't know how we could ever campaign if we put remain on a ballot paper, our party would be finished, and rightly so.
Let us see - anything could happen
The Foreign Ministers at the West Balkans Conference have been desserted by Johnson and they are furious not least because Johnson arranged it.
He has shamed our Country and needs to leave Parliament altogether
Fair play to Davis and Boris, at least a couple of the Brexiteers has some balls.
May’s toast. What finished her is the bloody difficult woman tag. I lived through the seventies and eighties, and she ain’t no Maggie Thatcher. May is nothing. The embarrassing way she and her team have tried to,spin her as tough leader over the weekend just brings home to everyone of her MPs that she is not PM materiel, hasn’t been from the moment she got the job. When did she demonstrate any command of detail? Three key elections in three years, what campaigning immpression did she leave on them? What are her core beliefs she returns to to avoid just blowing in the wind on a day to day basis? If you are going to be a bloody difficult woman you have to be bloody good at it, tell a minister they are moving in a reshuffle they move, not tell you otherwise and stay put. You have to Turn up to leader debates and tough grillings, and stamp yourself and your policy on it. If you don’t lead like that, you are not leading at all. Her ministers are unsackable becuase she’s too weak to sack or even control them now. Whatever their persuasion on Brexit, whatever wing of the party they are from, this week the tory MPs will vote on the fact this government needs to negoatiate robustly with the EU now, strong on detail and sense of direction, which they all know they won’t get if May and her Turd Way fudge limps on. For the nations sake They cannot vote negatively this time just to block someone else, they need to crown a PM whose grasp of detail and leadership skills are priministerial standard.
Brexit is now dead in any meaningful sense. The UK will either withdraw article 50 completely or accept vassal status and stay in all the EU economic structure with no say in the political structure.
your problem is you assume we had a say - the infamous influence. - most of the voters just laugh at the concept.
IF THERE IS A 'LEADERSHIP CHALLENGE', IT IS VIA A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE. THERE IS NO OTHER CANDIDATE NEEDED.
IF THE PM WINS, SHE REMAINS PM.
IF SHE LOSES, SHE CANNOT THEN STAND IN THE LEADERSHIP ELECTION.
HOW MANY BLOODY TIMES!?
Capital letters notwithstanding, what kind of support level does May need in the No Confidence Vote to survive ?
Technically, it's 50%+1 but you and I both know that wouldn't be anywhere near enough.
Obitus Sum Me (love the name) reminded me May got 199 in the 2016 ballot and I pointed out Major got 212 in the 1995 ballot (which was 2/3 of the Parliamentary Party).
I think May could survive if a third of the Parliamentary Party didn't support her but not any more - what do YOU think (oh dear, I'm doing the capitals now!)
I agree with your assessment. She'd need to keep opposition to double figures.
I do despair at the level of debate....old Fat head was banging on about chlorinated chicken as the reason why we can't Brexit / do a deal with America.
There are lots of reasons why there are lots of complications, but this nonsense on chlorinated chicken is just bollocks. When he was called on it, that we already have products that are chlorinated, but he said but the public are resistant to it....well you massive muppet, the public simply won't buy it will they.
We coat our kids in chlorine everytime they go swimming. Not sure why it's any worse for chicken?
I believe the claim is that they have to be chlorinated because the quality of meat / animal welfare standards aren't as high as in the EU.
I believe in the power of the market, if people don't want object to eating it, it will have to be clearly labelled where it comes from and so people can simply just not buy it.
Only if it is allowed to be labelled, the US wants it not to be.
Brexite era leaving the sinking ship, but May likely to survive methinks.
Lets say that actually occurred, and British meat is labelled with the red tractor...and then the public who care about it, buy red tractor labelled meat (as many people already do for that exact reason).
My point was, in the grand scheme of things, where FTA are massively complex and huge amounts of negotiations, Boulton banging on about chlorinated chicken as an absolute killer reason why it couldn't possibly do a FTA with US or anywhere else is just nonsense.
Brexit is now dead in any meaningful sense. The UK will either withdraw article 50 completely or accept vassal status and stay in all the EU economic structure with no say in the political structure.
Lol, you wish. If anything we're marching to no deal brexit by the minute. The clock is still running and the crew are abandoning ship because the captain has spotted an iceberg and changed direction to aim directly for it.
Great statement by Chuka. My guess is a General election followed by the re-run of the referendum. Followed by Remain with a large majority. Someone just asked if Boris wasn't taking a principled stance!!!!!!!!
It's the way he tells 'em....
You wish, polls are virtually identical on Brexit to where they were pre referendum and 2/3 of Westminster constituencies voted Leave
No one will blame Theresa for this. It is just ambition run wild Boris and co make Major's bastards look civilised. After learning the rules from David I can't see May being turfed out. Much more likely Boris and co sink without trace.
I’ve said it before: draft Farage. Sack May, give Farage a peerage, make him party leader and PM – at least until UK really does properly leave the EU. Too fanciful? Desperate times need desperate measures; public faith in democratic process now in danger"
He can hardly complain since he wasn't at a conference the UK was hosting with him as host - 'Where's Boris'?
Bone idle, irresponsible, self-serving.
Has there ever been a worse Foreign Secretary in the modern era?
None springs to mind. Ma Beckett may not have been inspiring but was a 'safe pair of hands' and Miliband may not have been as clever as he thought he was (India) - but none come remotely close - heck - even Fox would be an improvement.
"Question for the day : What is larger - The number of Italian governments that have held the UK's accession treaty or the hours left before Boris resigns from the Cabinet ?"
So Boris wins that one. Hopefully his own win for many years to come ....
Do these resigning minsters, these dim witted MPs, actually understand the real-life consequences of there being no effective arrangement? Is it anything more than a game to them? I hope that their precious virginal sovereignty tastes like ashes.
OMG. Just heard Boris has gone. It's all out war now!
The government is collapsing.
No it is not
You must admit it is giving a reasonable impression of so doing.
A cull of the Brexiteers is needed
The Brexiteers are representing 17.4m people who WON the referendum.
No they are not. Few voted to lose their jobs. You are getting carried away. Hard Brexit is over
Wrong, we valued our sovereignty and independence and freedom, and we were prepared to accept the short to medium term hit on our economy , for the long term gains brexit would eventually bring once we have managed to unshackle ourselves from the EU prison and make ourselves competitive in the world again
Well ironically if May survives today then in a sense like the old saying that "what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger" [not true] today's resignations will put the EU on alert not to keep demanding more. Had Davis etc rolled over this weekend then Barnier would likely have continued demanding more and more, at least someone has finally stood up and said enough is enough.
If that's true and no further changes are made, then it's a fairly good deal. I'd be on board for it. Just hope I don't get shipped out to work in Luxembourg or Tallinn with a few, err, dozen others!
Boris beats Hunt, Williamson and Mourdaunt but loses to Davidson, Mogg, Javid and Gove (but remember this was taken before he resigned and Gove stayed in the Cabinet)
OMG. Just heard Boris has gone. It's all out war now!
The government is collapsing.
No it is not
You must admit it is giving a reasonable impression of so doing.
A cull of the Brexiteers is needed
The Brexiteers are representing 17.4m people who WON the referendum.
No they are not. Few voted to lose their jobs. You are getting carried away. Hard Brexit is over
Wrong, we valued our sovereignty and independence and freedom, and we were prepared to accept the short to medium term hit on our economy , for the long term gains brexit would eventually bring once we have managed to unshackle ourselves from the EU prison and make ourselves competitive in the world again
Boris may actually have called this right. When EU rejects May's third way Chequers garbage, his No Deal might actually look like a viable alternative, at least to many backbenchers.
Comments
Brexite era leaving the sinking ship, but May likely to survive methinks.
he wrecked it,
he turned out to be not very good at being PM,
or at party management
or at negotiating with the EU
or at constitutional reform
really he just sat in the chair and spent his political capital on crap. I mean who talks about Leveson today ?
If you give people a choice to Remain or Leave then Leavers are going to back Leave. That's not betraying, its following his wish for people to have a choice.
It looks highly likely there will be a confidence vote and it is not now impossible Boris could be PM by the end of the summer. Personally though I think May will scrape a victory in a confidence vote it will be a vote just leaving her on probation until the end of the transition period and no longer
The Conservatives still have a majority with the DUP and neither side has an interest in risking that right now. How does an election come about?
Even if there was an election and Labour won, why would Corbyn agree to a second referendum, and with what questions?
All polling points to two deeply divided camps with a few floaters. Neither side would win by a large majority; either side could win.
The Foreign Ministers at the West Balkans Conference have been desserted by Johnson and they are furious not least because Johnson arranged it.
He has shamed our Country and needs to leave Parliament altogether
May’s toast. What finished her is the bloody difficult woman tag. I lived through the seventies and eighties, and she ain’t no Maggie Thatcher. May is nothing. The embarrassing way she and her team have tried to,spin her as tough leader over the weekend just brings home to everyone of her MPs that she is not PM materiel, hasn’t been from the moment she got the job. When did she demonstrate any command of detail? Three key elections in three years, what campaigning immpression did she leave on them? What are her core beliefs she returns to to avoid just blowing in the wind on a day to day basis? If you are going to be a bloody difficult woman you have to be bloody good at it, tell a minister they are moving in a reshuffle they move, not tell you otherwise and stay put. You have to Turn up to leader debates and tough grillings, and stamp yourself and your policy on it. If you don’t lead like that, you are not leading at all. Her ministers are unsackable becuase she’s too weak to sack or even control them now.
Whatever their persuasion on Brexit, whatever wing of the party they are from, this week the tory MPs will vote on the fact this government needs to negoatiate robustly with the EU now, strong on detail and sense of direction, which they all know they won’t get if May and her Turd Way fudge limps on. For the nations sake They cannot vote negatively this time just to block someone else, they need to crown a PM whose grasp of detail and leadership skills are priministerial standard.
- most of the voters just laugh at the concept.
My point was, in the grand scheme of things, where FTA are massively complex and huge amounts of negotiations, Boulton banging on about chlorinated chicken as an absolute killer reason why it couldn't possibly do a FTA with US or anywhere else is just nonsense.
He has it in his hands, with not impossible turns of events, to form the next government but will he betray his long-held principles?
May is not.
Perhaps the Queen could have a quiet word?
https://twitter.com/ZacGoldsmith/status/1016326867350097920
I told Mike I was taking a break from PB during July and I didn't expect much to happen until October.
#NeverTakingAHolidayAgain
Has there ever been a worse Foreign Secretary in the modern era?
What an absolute lumpen chump Boris is.
I feel genuinely sorry for Theresa having to deal with these dickheads.
According to David Davis 'by two to three to one'?
This is too confident.
Verified account @MelanieLatest
I’ve said it before: draft Farage. Sack May, give Farage a peerage, make him party leader and PM – at least until UK really does properly leave the EU.
Too fanciful? Desperate times need desperate measures; public faith in democratic process now in danger"
If he wants it and could get to the membership Mogg will be the Tory Corbyn it now seems
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/07/09/leave-voting-conservative-party-members-are-starti/
a few twats are prancing about Westminster, but the real action is on Love Island and the Football
"Question for the day : What is larger - The number of Italian governments that have held the UK's accession treaty or the hours left before Boris resigns from the Cabinet ?"
So Boris wins that one. Hopefully his own win for many years to come ....
That's boys in Thailand, not Tory cabinet resignations.
its just a big red herring.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/07/09/leave-voting-conservative-party-members-are-starti/
Russian fans to support England after pro-Ukraine utterance by Croatian player.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-cup/2018/07/09/russian-fans-back-england-croatian-stars-glory-ukraine-chant/
John Major shortly after the IRA tried to murder him?
She needs to find some fight PDQ if she's thinking of hanging around.