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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A better ‘ole

SystemSystem Posts: 6,389
edited July 9 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » A better ‘ole

When I was a child, we used to visit my maternal grandparents most Sundays.  I learned my love of card games and Scrabble there, including the importance of seating: my grandpa would cheat to ensure my grandma won (she was a shocking loser and he knew which side his bread was buttered).  Sunday tea was an institution, my grandma slipping Ben her fat golden Labrador little treats from her plate when she thought no one was looking.

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Comments

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 8,310
    Firstish...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    This is what a Tory govt looks like kids. That's why we didn't have one for 13 years.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Jonathan said:

    This is what a Tory govt looks like kids. That's why we didn't have one for 13 years.

    They collapse 8 years in? I don't think that's as much a criticism as you think it is.
  • NormNorm Posts: 863
    Yup.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    edited July 9
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    This is what a Tory govt looks like kids. That's why we didn't have one for 13 years.

    They collapse 8 years in? I don't think that's as much a criticism as you think it is.
    3 years!

    Let's not forget they had the Lib Dems to take care of them for the first five. When finally set free, they implode over Europe.

    Who knew!
  • PendduPenddu Posts: 154
    Tories are making Italian governments look stable....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 27,487
    At some stage both sides in the Conservative civil war have to stop looking at Brexit as a path to personal advancement. They will not be forgiven if they don’t. Real jobs, real communities, real lives hang on the Brexit deal we get. May belatedly seems to have understood that, Gove too. Hammond always got it. Surely there are a few more grown ups somewhere on the Tory benches.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    I any surprised to say this, but Alastair is right. This far in it is inexcusable that Leavers didn't have an alternative (and clearly they did not or there would have been action to stop May before now, since Davis is clear his misgivings go back a long way). Seeing different candidates try to come up with other ideas on the fly will be very disruptive, and the confidence some have that the party will unite behind the winner is not borne out by reality. JRM and co will not magically start being supportive if May were to win a contest, or a May type were to win, and why would Mayites do differently?

    However, where it comes down to what has to be negotiated, that's where Alastair has forgotten that JRM and co do not want a deal. They may not have the votes in the party to outright back that, but they have enough to stop anything else from being tried.

    It's no deal or remain I think.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 2,472
    Oh to be a fly on the wall at the '22. Will it be as badly leaked as a Corbyn reshuffle?
  • Neither of the main political parties looks fit for purpose now.

    Gareth Southgate needs to start a Calm and Sensible Gradualist Party. He'd sweep to power.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,670
    The louder the tables bang the more they want her gone.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 20,291
    Should a plan that is a totally shit, undeliverable plan be given marks just for being a plan?

    I said Friday this plan wouldn't survive first contact with the enemy the EU. It can only count as a plan if it was firmly "Take it or leave it". May couldn't remotely convey that required level of gritty determination. The EU would just take all on offer and extend their list of demands.....

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Oh please, what nonsense. Let's say there is no contest, or she wins it - we're to believe this chaotic group of clowns will suddenly get behind her or manage to achieve what needs to be achieved in the time we have?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,383
    She's actually quite witty - but it doesn't come across on TV....
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,383
    kle4 said:

    Oh please, what nonsense. Let's say there is no contest, or she wins it - we're to believe this chaotic group of clowns will suddenly get behind her or manage to achieve what needs to be achieved in the time we have?
    TINA
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782

    Should a plan that is a totally shit, undeliverable plan be given marks just for being a plan?

    I said Friday this plan wouldn't survive first contact with the enemy the EU. It can only count as a plan if it was firmly "Take it or leave it". May couldn't remotely convey that required level of gritty determination. The EU would just take all on offer and extend their list of demands.....

    I still don't get why if it is so bad (and I think everyone believes either the EU will reject it or ask for a lot more) that the Cabinet agreed it. Either they didn't realise it was bad, or pretended they thought otherwise. I don't quite buy that the timeline is unimportant here.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782

    kle4 said:

    Oh please, what nonsense. Let's say there is no contest, or she wins it - we're to believe this chaotic group of clowns will suddenly get behind her or manage to achieve what needs to be achieved in the time we have?
    TINA
    ??
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    The roads not taken - he should have done a better job, and or the public should have been more forgiving of the LDs.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,557
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh please, what nonsense. Let's say there is no contest, or she wins it - we're to believe this chaotic group of clowns will suddenly get behind her or manage to achieve what needs to be achieved in the time we have?
    TINA
    ??
    There is no alternative
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 12,182
    Boris letter coming out as Theresa is speaking? :D
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 19,789
    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 8,716
    Is there some remote one we can send him to?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,557
    edited July 9

    Is there some remote one we can send him to?
    Boris is a fan of history, perhaps he would appreciate exlie on St Helena or Corsica?
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 1,348
    The Tories circa 2018 are almost entirely divorced from any kind of external reality.

    Remoaner or Mogglodyte, they all now inhabit fictional universes that exist almost entirely in their own minds.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 8,310

    Is there some remote one we can send him to?
    South Georgia.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 478
    edited July 9
    kle4 said:

    Should a plan that is a totally shit, undeliverable plan be given marks just for being a plan?

    I said Friday this plan wouldn't survive first contact with the enemy the EU. It can only count as a plan if it was firmly "Take it or leave it". May couldn't remotely convey that required level of gritty determination. The EU would just take all on offer and extend their list of demands.....

    I still don't get why if it is so bad (and I think everyone believes either the EU will reject it or ask for a lot more) that the Cabinet agreed it. Either they didn't realise it was bad, or pretended they thought otherwise. I don't quite buy that the timeline is unimportant here.
    They know it's bad, it's just that they don't have the necessary courage to go forwards or backwards, and remain stuck in no-mans land (to continue the OP theme). They are looking at each other waiting for someone else to go, for the barrage to end or for the other side to surrender.

    It'ss not leaver obsessives by the way. It's their own party members and activists. They will need them in 2022 for the next election. And a leader that can function effectively on TV.
    That should concentrate minds.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 12,182
    Why is Boris's letter coming out in dribs and drabs rather than seeing the full thing?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 1,342

    Is there some remote one we can send him to?
    "Sir! you have disappointed us!
    We had intended you to be
    The next Prime Minister but three:
    The stocks were sold; the Press was squared:
    The Middle Class was quite prepared.
    But as it is! . . . My language fails!
    Go out and govern New South Wales!"
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 1,342
    GIN1138 said:

    Why is Boris's letter coming out in dribs and drabs rather than seeing the full thing?
    Because he's still deciding which version to send?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 2,674
    rpjs said:

    Is there some remote one we can send him to?
    "Sir! you have disappointed us!
    We had intended you to be
    The next Prime Minister but three:
    The stocks were sold; the Press was squared:
    The Middle Class was quite prepared.
    But as it is! . . . My language fails!
    Go out and govern New South Wales!"
    Precisely that
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Well ,Boris is right in his letter that crucial decisions have been postponed. Prior to 2018 I think plenty of us were still giving May and the government a bit of leeway given the difficulty of the task, but the constant delays have been all about the Tory melodrama. Which, in fairness, is something Boris is just as much a part of.

    He's much weaker on explaining the delay in his decision on quitting. He congratulated May on at least reaching a Cabinet decision after acknowledging his side did not have the numbers...then over the weekend he decided he could not, after all, back it.

    Interesting closer though, talking about the largest and most effective diplomatic network of any country in Europe 'a continent which we will never leave. I know remainers and leavers at times incorrectly equate the EU with Europe, but I'm curious why he felt the final words in his letter should be emphasising that we will never leave the continent no matter what.

  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh please, what nonsense. Let's say there is no contest, or she wins it - we're to believe this chaotic group of clowns will suddenly get behind her or manage to achieve what needs to be achieved in the time we have?
    TINA
    ??
    TINA = There Is No Alternative. Or Thatcher Is Not Available
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    GIN1138 said:

    Why is Boris's letter coming out in dribs and drabs rather than seeing the full thing?
    https://order-order.com/2018/07/09/read-boris-resignation-letter-full/
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 1,348
    SKY/YouGov

    Do you or do you not trust Theresa May to get the best possible deal in negotiations with the EU?
    Do 22% (-32)
    Do not 64% (+31)
    Don't know 14% (+1)

    (Changes from March 2017)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh please, what nonsense. Let's say there is no contest, or she wins it - we're to believe this chaotic group of clowns will suddenly get behind her or manage to achieve what needs to be achieved in the time we have?
    TINA
    ??
    TINA = There Is No Alternative. Or Thatcher Is Not Available

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Oh please, what nonsense. Let's say there is no contest, or she wins it - we're to believe this chaotic group of clowns will suddenly get behind her or manage to achieve what needs to be achieved in the time we have?
    TINA
    ??
    There is no alternative
    Thanks
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 47,156

    The Tories circa 2018 are almost entirely divorced from any kind of external reality.

    Remoaner or Mogglodyte, they all now inhabit fictional universes that exist almost entirely in their own minds.

    Good to see you again !
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782

    The Tories circa 2018 are almost entirely divorced from any kind of external reality.

    Remoaner or Mogglodyte, they all now inhabit fictional universes that exist almost entirely in their own minds.

    Mogglodyte, I've not seen that one before, that's very good.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,557
    edited July 9
    .
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 1,345
    Apparently she said she was planning on going on a walking holiday for her summer break.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 31,383
    kle4 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Why is Boris's letter coming out in dribs and drabs rather than seeing the full thing?
    https://order-order.com/2018/07/09/read-boris-resignation-letter-full/
    Long on rhetoric - solutions - zero.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Yep.

    Whether actual votes are still needed in parliament is almost immaterial - government will collapse trying to negotiate or implement anything.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 1,910
    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    "Does anyone here have any f***ing clue how we get out of this?"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 47,283
    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,543

    Why are our journalists crying about this one tweet? At most, at least find Americans other than one NYT journalist and Dean Howard to quote. It’s been hours yet I’m still seeing this one tweet quoted on my timeline now....
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 1,348
    edited July 9
    brendan16 said:

    Apparently she said she was planning on going on a walking holiday for her summer break.
    A long walk off a short pier?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,730
    Gavin Barwell scripted it for her. She was going to say it whether the press were outside or not.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    The Tories cannot do the latter while they are so divided. But if they do the former, things might get so chaotic perhaps the latter will happen. Tough times.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
    They were promised strong and stable. They got chaos. The Tories are the Southern Rail of political parties.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 1,348


    Why are our journalists crying about this one tweet? At most, at least find Americans other than one NYT journalist and Dean Howard to quote. It’s been hours yet I’m still seeing this one tweet quoted on my timeline now....

    I do not think a country that elected Fuckface von Clownstick possesses any moral authority when it comes to the subject of international standing.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 1,910
    edited July 9
    kle4 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    The Tories cannot do the latter while they are so divided. But if they do the former, things might get so chaotic perhaps the latter will happen. Tough times.
    We're at the stage where a grand coalition to actually get things done should be formed (for deciding what our future relationship with the EU is should be a bi-patisan affair). But for that to happen all four sides need to be willing to compromise, from Con & Leave to Lab & Remain as well as Con & Stay. An election leading to a hung drawn and quartered parliament may be the best way of achieving that.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    kle4 said:

    "Does anyone here have any f***ing clue how we get out of this?"
    General Election.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,543


    Why are our journalists crying about this one tweet? At most, at least find Americans other than one NYT journalist and Dean Howard to quote. It’s been hours yet I’m still seeing this one tweet quoted on my timeline now....

    I do not think a country that elected Fuckface von Clownstick possesses any moral authority when it comes to the subject of international standing.
    Exactly.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 19,789
    edited July 9
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
    They were promised strong and stable. They got chaos. The Tories are the Southern Rail of political parties.
    They would have got Strong'n'Stable if they'd voted for it. They deliberately chose not to, so they have got Weak'n'Wobbly instead. That's what they wanted. It seemed disastrously daft to me, what with there being a tricky Brexit negotiation to do and all that, but there we go.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782


    Why are our journalists crying about this one tweet? At most, at least find Americans other than one NYT journalist and Dean Howard to quote. It’s been hours yet I’m still seeing this one tweet quoted on my timeline now....

    +1 We see this sort of thing all the time, usually when it is a quote of how bad Britain is doing but occasionally the reverse, and it's usually people getting way too reactive to something very minor indeed. Much as I love Roger he has a tendency to do the same thing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    "Does anyone here have any f***ing clue how we get out of this?"
    General Election.
    That doesn't get any of us out of anything.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,730
    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    Article 50 extension.

    Back it now.
    HYUFD said:

    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312

    The problem is, of course, that crashing out the EU in nine months time with limited preparation for No Deal will likely be unpleasant. Even going to WTO in an orderly fashion now requires the help of the EU.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
    They were promised strong and stable. They got chaos. The Tories are the Southern Rail of political parties.
    They would have got Strong'n'Stable if they'd voted for it. They deliberately chose not to, so they have got Weak'n'Wobbly instead. That's what they wanted. It seemed disastrously daft to me, what with there being a tricky Brexit negotiation to do and all that, but there we go.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    The Tories cannot do the latter while they are so divided. But if they do the former, things might get so chaotic perhaps the latter will happen. Tough times.
    We're at the stage where a grand coalition to actually get things done should be formed (for deciding what our future relationship with the EU is should be a bi-patisan affair). But for that to happen all four sides need to be willing to compromise, from Con & Leave to Lab & Remain as well as Con & Stay. An election leading to a hung drawn and quartered parliament may be the best way of achieving that.
    Never going to happen. Lab will be confident of winning outright with the Tories in open warfare, and if they are even just largest party they will seek arrangements in an anti tory alliance, and it seems improbable no such numbers would work.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,730
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    "Does anyone here have any f***ing clue how we get out of this?"
    General Election.
    That doesn't get any of us out of anything.
    It helps those of us who backed a 2018 election, thank you very much. Do we not bleed, if we are cut? Please think of us.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    "Does anyone here have any f***ing clue how we get out of this?"
    General Election.
    That doesn't get any of us out of anything.
    Yes it does. We get to choose.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    "Does anyone here have any f***ing clue how we get out of this?"
    General Election.
    That doesn't get any of us out of anything.
    It helps those of us who backed a 2018 election, thank you very much. Do we not bleed, if we are cut? Please think of us.
    I would if you weren't raking in that Youtube advertising money :)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 22,641
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    Article 50 extension.

    Back it now.
    HYUFD said:

    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312

    The problem is, of course, that crashing out the EU in nine months time with limited preparation for No Deal will likely be unpleasant. Even going to WTO in an orderly fashion now requires the help of the EU.
    Brexit is dead, Robert. Putting 50p in the meter to keep the life support machine running won’t do any good.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 11,191
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
    They were promised strong and stable. They got chaos. The Tories are the Southern Rail of political parties.
    But they warned us that if we didn't elect a Tory majority, we'd get a coalition of chaos. We didn't, so that's what we've got...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 20,291

    SKY/YouGov

    Do you or do you not trust Theresa May to get the best possible deal in negotiations with the EU?
    Do 22% (-32)
    Do not 64% (+31)
    Don't know 14% (+1)

    (Changes from March 2017)

    Atrocious numbers......
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    "Does anyone here have any f***ing clue how we get out of this?"
    General Election.
    That doesn't get any of us out of anything.
    Yes it does. We get to choose.
    Choose what? The Tories will have no coherent Brexit prospectus to offer, Lab will claim they do but we know they don't, and the others bar the SNP are irrelevant. Playing musical chairs without removing any chairs over time doesn't lead to a narrowing of outcomes, just more delay and prevarication.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    Article 50 extension.

    Back it now.
    HYUFD said:

    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312

    The problem is, of course, that crashing out the EU in nine months time with limited preparation for No Deal will likely be unpleasant. Even going to WTO in an orderly fashion now requires the help of the EU.
    Brexit is dead, Robert. Putting 50p in the meter to keep the life support machine running won’t do any good.
    If Brexit dies then expect Farage and Banks to launch a populist movement and heaven help us in 2022 because there will be a huge F*** Y** sentiment out there.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
    They were promised strong and stable. They got chaos. The Tories are the Southern Rail of political parties.
    But they warned us that if we didn't elect a Tory majority, we'd get a coalition of chaos. We didn't, so that's what we've got...

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
    They were promised strong and stable. They got chaos. The Tories are the Southern Rail of political parties.
    But they warned us that if we didn't elect a Tory majority, we'd get a coalition of chaos. We didn't, so that's what we've got...
    Ahem. Yes we did.



  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 15,300

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Except that the EU problem wouldn't have gone away.

    It would have been better if the referendum had gone firmly the other way, or if Theresa May had got the decisive mandate she asked for, which would have given her the authority to do a deal and see off both the ultra-Brexiteers and the continuity Remainers with whom they are in an unholy alliance. And it would probably saved the Labour Party too.

    Voters voted for chaos, they are getting what they wanted.
    They were promised strong and stable. They got chaos. The Tories are the Southern Rail of political parties.
    But they warned us that if we didn't elect a Tory majority, we'd get a coalition of chaos. We didn't, so that's what we've got...
    That's remarkably fair Mr Palmer.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,037
    I have read that some people look happy and elated before they are going to kill themselves.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    What does 'went well' mean in this context? Papering over cracks might make people feel better without actually doing any good for example. Agreeing she has to go might be 'went well' for the party, who knows.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,037
    GIN1138 said:

    Why is Boris's letter coming out in dribs and drabs rather than seeing the full thing?
    Death by a thousand commas.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 47,156
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    Article 50 extension.

    Back it now.
    HYUFD said:

    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312

    The problem is, of course, that crashing out the EU in nine months time with limited preparation for No Deal will likely be unpleasant. Even going to WTO in an orderly fashion now requires the help of the EU.
    I liked your latest videos but why are London rental yields so low now
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,754
    I don't understand what a second referendum will achieve.

    The Leavers will be invigorated by an establishment takeover, and even if they lose narrowly, they will demand another one within a few hours, and certainly before anything else is decided. That's how the system works now, isn't it?

    If leave win, it will be ignored again. Russian influence, they're too thick to vote, and it's all wrong cos I think differently.

    We need to leave, in fact as well as in name. If after considered opinion over a few years, we change our minds, so be it.

    To make a mockery of democracy will create a schism that will last a generation.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    Loads of typos in the Spectator version of the Boris letter.

    'Government’s campaign for 12 ears of quality education for every girl, and much more besides. '
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782

    GIN1138 said:

    Why is Boris's letter coming out in dribs and drabs rather than seeing the full thing?
    Death by a thousand commas.
    It did feel pretty poorly written. Rambling digressions on minor points when a matter of great importance is meant to be discissed. An odd one.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 47,283
    edited July 9

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    Article 50 extension.

    Back it now.
    HYUFD said:

    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312

    The problem is, of course, that crashing out the EU in nine months time with limited preparation for No Deal will likely be unpleasant. Even going to WTO in an orderly fashion now requires the help of the EU.
    Brexit is dead, Robert. Putting 50p in the meter to keep the life support machine running won’t do any good.
    You are so arrogant in your Euro Federalism you completely ignore the facts.

    How can Brexit be dead when the PM, the Leader of the Opposition and the likely next Tory leader are all fully behind Brexit?

    The only senior UK wide party leader with more than 1 seat who opposes Brexit, wants a second EU referendum or even wants to stay in the single market is Vince Cable with just 12 MPs
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 34,782
    CD13 said:

    I don't understand what a second referendum will achieve.

    The Leavers will be invigorated by an establishment takeover, and even if they lose narrowly, they will demand another one within a few hours, and certainly before anything else is decided. That's how the system works now, isn't it?

    If leave win, it will be ignored again. Russian influence, they're too thick to vote, and it's all wrong cos I think differently.

    We need to leave, in fact as well as in name. If after considered opinion over a few years, we change our minds, so be it.

    To make a mockery of democracy will create a schism that will last a generation.

    I think we need a referendum on what type of leaving - I don't see how that occurs, nor would it solve all our problems, but the parliament as constituted is incapable of agreeing.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 699

    If Brexit dies then expect Farage and Banks to launch a populist movement and heaven help us in 2022 because there will be a huge F*** Y** sentiment out there.

    Farage is a busted flush. There might be someone out there who can launch a populist movement, potentially even someone nastier than Farage. But it won't be him.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 12,182
    As though he'd say anything else...
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 1,661

    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    Article 50 extension.

    Back it now.
    HYUFD said:

    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312

    The problem is, of course, that crashing out the EU in nine months time with limited preparation for No Deal will likely be unpleasant. Even going to WTO in an orderly fashion now requires the help of the EU.
    Brexit is dead, Robert. Putting 50p in the meter to keep the life support machine running won’t do any good.
    If Brexit dies then expect Farage and Banks to launch a populist movement and heaven help us in 2022 because there will be a huge F*** Y** sentiment out there.
    That, of course, is what Brexiteers would have us believe but I wonder. Most people are not that interested in Brexit, just as they were not that interested in Europe before Cameron foisted the referendum on us. If it all collapses they may just shrug their shoulders and carry on - I don't think it's by any means a given that there will be national outrage and demands to elevate Farage to the premiership. It's surely obvious to everyone that the Brexit that was promised at the referendum cannot be delivered and so a change of mind may be seen as a sensible move and not the democratic outrage that many people on here seem to fear.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,754
    " ... heaven help us in 2022 because there will be a huge F*** Y** sentiment out there "

    I think you're right. Killing a democratic vote because you don't like it will destabilise the country. Why bother with ballots anymore?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 47,283
    rcs1000 said:

    Chameleon said:

    As hugely entertaining as this is, I'd rather like it if they chose not to have a leadership contest less than a year away from the exit date. I'd be up for another general election though.

    Article 50 extension.

    Back it now.
    HYUFD said:

    By 45% to 20% Tory members think 'soft Brexit' would be bad for Britain.

    By 49% to 25% Tory members think 'no deal' Brexit would be good for Britain.

    Hard to see how May can lead the Tories at the next general election so divorced from her own members and also explains why Mogg is Tory members' preferred candidate to succeed May in the same poll

    https://mobile.twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1016313194627981312

    The problem is, of course, that crashing out the EU in nine months time with limited preparation for No Deal will likely be unpleasant. Even going to WTO in an orderly fashion now requires the help of the EU.
    If May survives we likely get the transition period, if she goes she likely goes within a fortnight and we prepare for No Deal
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    If football comes home, will there be anything left when it gets here?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 47,283
    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Boris may well have then beaten him in 2020
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 9,452
    HYUFD said:

    Jonathan said:

    It would have been better if Ed Milliband had won

    Boris may well have then beaten him in 2020
    Good point,well made.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 39,437
    edited July 9
    CD13 said:

    To make a mockery of democracy will create a schism that will last a generation.

    Too fucking late.

    The only way out of the schism is more votes...
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 4,754
    Mr kl4

    "I think we need a referendum on what type of leaving."

    What is defined a leaving? Surely making our own rules on trade agreements and control of borders is the bare minimum. Given that, we can happily discuss the minutiae.
This discussion has been closed.