What a twat. Because Leavers have been running Brexit, huh?
#StateSecretsBlownWideOpen
So Heseltine wants a calamity for the country for point scoring purposes, Adonis thinks that is a "magisterial" position, and the whole thing gets the imprimatur of a re-bleat from Scottie. Congrats to all 3.
None us "want" a calamity. The grown ups know there already is one. Meanwhile Vladimir is chuckling away while he strokes his white cat.
1707 seems an interesting comparison. The rich Scots having lost a fortune needed a friendly shelter. The poor Scots didn't deserve a say. It's a good job they didn't get one. Democracy? Pah!
Edit: I'm no historian but I'm sure the Scots will enlighten me if I'm wrong.
You got it in one, the small elite rich just did what they wanted and the majority were doomed to 300 years of slavery. It was always thus. So downtrodden the morons voted to stay as slaves to Westminster, unbelievable.
What a twat. Because Leavers have been running Brexit, huh?
#StateSecretsBlownWideOpen
Yep, the three horseman of the Brexitapocalypse: Fox, Davis, and Johnson. All three of them all lied about how easy it would all be. They have been proven to be dishonest, not in command of their brief and fundamentally incompetent. They own it, and they need to be held accountable for years to come.
They are Tories , why would any sane person expect anything else.
RobD “Of course they haven't demanded it. It's a slow, insidious creep towards a federal EU. One power grab at a time”
They can only "grab power" if we agree it, as I indicated in my post? The EU is a collective of 28/27 sovereign countries. The real power continues to reside with the Council of Ministers, who are elected representatives of each sovereign democratic state. (This is one of the other great lies, that EU is not democratic). It is most unlikely, given the nature of how it has always been run, that the 27 would completely ignore the wishes of the 28th. It maybe how the schoolboy fantasies of Nigel Farage that imagine this, but there is no evidence in the reality. Where it doesn't work so well is in reverse (which is what EU-loathers want now), where one state wants the other 27 to limit something (eg free movement) that the other 27 wish to retain. The "EU" are not the bully-boys here. We are, and we should be ashamed that our leaders have put us in this position.
You are right about the pre-Lisbon EU. But the replacement of unanimous voting with QMV in most cases is what drove myself and many others to vote to leave. Under QMV we don’t have a say if enough others disagree. The expansion of QMV was a massive power grab.
We had QMV because it was wanted by, wait for it....Mrs Thatcher ! The person that so many Leavers claim to be one of theirs. She wanted the eastern European countries in to balance the power of Germany (she was a bit obsessed with Germany). Unanimous voting was no longer practical with so many members, and this had been planned considerably before Lisbon. The single market and the addition of former eastern bloc countries was a Thatcher legacy that has been trashed by this referendum result. As I said before, we still have sovereignty and the ultimate right to say no, so no crazy "power-grab" by a faceless EU, just an international agreement. Thatcher was clever enough to understand this. The folk that claim to be her heirs are not.
What a twat. Because Leavers have been running Brexit, huh?
#StateSecretsBlownWideOpen
Yep, the three horseman of the Brexitapocalypse: Fox, Davis, and Johnson. All three of them all lied about how easy it would all be. They have been proven to be dishonest, not in command of their brief and fundamentally incompetent. They own it, and they need to be held accountable for years to come.
They are Tories , why would any sane person expect anything else.
I am a Tory, and I have very little in common with these three; they are a disgrace to their party and their country. Decent Tories are not that uncommon, in the same way that not all Scotsmen are jaundiced chippy and prejudiced
RobD “Of course they haven't demanded it. It's a slow, insidious creep towards a federal EU. One power grab at a time”
They can only "grab power" if we agree it, as I indicated in my post? The EU is a collective of 28/27 sovereign countries. The real power continues to reside with the Council of Ministers, who are elected representatives of each sovereign democratic state. (This is one of the other great lies, that EU is not democratic). It is most unlikely, given the nature of how it has always been run, that the 27 would completely ignore the wishes of the 28th. It maybe how the schoolboy fantasies of Nigel Farage that imagine this, but there is no evidence in the reality. Where it doesn't work so well is in reverse (which is what EU-loathers want now), where one state wants the other 27 to limit something (eg free movement) that the other 27 wish to retain. The "EU" are not the bully-boys here. We are, and we should be ashamed that our leaders have put us in this position.
You are right about the pre-Lisbon EU. But the replacement of unanimous voting with QMV in most cases is what drove myself and many others to vote to leave. Under QMV we don’t have a say if enough others disagree. The expansion of QMV was a massive power grab.
We had QMV because it was wanted by, wait for it....Mrs Thatcher ! The person that so many Leavers claim to be one of theirs. She wanted the eastern European countries in to balance the power of Germany (she was a bit obsessed with Germany). Unanimous voting was no longer practical with so many members, and this had been planned considerably before Lisbon. The single market and the addition of former eastern bloc countries was a Thatcher legacy that has been trashed by this referendum result. As I said before, we still have sovereignty and the ultimate right to say no, so no crazy "power-grab" by a faceless EU, just an international agreement. Thatcher was clever enough to understand this. The folk that claim to be her heirs are not.
What a twat. Because Leavers have been running Brexit, huh?
#StateSecretsBlownWideOpen
So Heseltine wants a calamity for the country for point scoring purposes, Adonis thinks that is a "magisterial" position, and the whole thing gets the imprimatur of a re-bleat from Scottie. Congrats to all 3.
None us "want" a calamity. The grown ups know there already is one. Meanwhile Vladimir is chuckling away while he strokes his white cat.
Perhaps less of this stuff about "the grown ups" and so on? Because when you aren't telling us how clever you are you come across as being about as bright as the average leave voter, with a distinct bias to the downside. If you read the tweet to which I was replying you will see that you are wrong (again).
And before you say that I would say that, I'm a leaver: I am not a leaver.
1707 seems an interesting comparison. The rich Scots having lost a fortune needed a friendly shelter. The poor Scots didn't deserve a say. It's a good job they didn't get one. Democracy? Pah!
Edit: I'm no historian but I'm sure the Scots will enlighten me if I'm wrong.
You got it in one, the small elite rich just did what they wanted and the majority were doomed to 300 years of slavery. It was always thus. So downtrodden the morons voted to stay as slaves to Westminster, unbelievable.
What a twat. Because Leavers have been running Brexit, huh?
#StateSecretsBlownWideOpen
Yep, the three horseman of the Brexitapocalypse: Fox, Davis, and Johnson. All three of them all lied about how easy it would all be. They have been proven to be dishonest, not in command of their brief and fundamentally incompetent. They own it, and they need to be held accountable for years to come.
We have a Leave PM? We have a Leave Chancellor? We have Downing Street full of Leave flunkies? We have a Civil Service making it their daily mission to get the very best Brexit they can?
What a twat. Because Leavers have been running Brexit, huh?
#StateSecretsBlownWideOpen
So Heseltine wants a calamity for the country for point scoring purposes, Adonis thinks that is a "magisterial" position, and the whole thing gets the imprimatur of a re-bleat from Scottie. Congrats to all 3.
None us "want" a calamity. The grown ups know there already is one. Meanwhile Vladimir is chuckling away while he strokes his white cat.
Perhaps less of this stuff about "the grown ups" and so on? Because when you aren't telling us how clever you are you come across as being about as bright as the average leave voter, with a distinct bias to the downside. If you read the tweet to which I was replying you will see that you are wrong (again).
And before you say that I would say that, I'm a leaver: I am not a leaver.
The state of this. You'll have made a grown man cry. This board is for all, including the unelightened lecturing us at GCSE level.
RobD “Of course they haven't demanded it. It's a slow, insidious creep towards a federal EU. One power grab at a time”
They can only "grab power" if we agree it, as I indicated in my post? The EU is a collective of 28/27 sovereign countries. The real power continues to reside with the Council of Ministers, who are elected representatives of each sovereign democratic state. (This is one of the other great lies, that EU is not democratic). It is most unlikely, given the nature of how it has always been run, that the 27 would completely ignore the wishes of the 28th. It maybe how the schoolboy fantasies of Nigel Farage that imagine this, but there is no evidence in the reality. Where it doesn't work so well is in reverse (which is what EU-loathers want now), where one state wants the other 27 to limit something (eg free movement) that the other 27 wish to retain. The "EU" are not the bully-boys here. We are, and we should be ashamed that our leaders have put us in this position.
You are right about the pre-Lisbon EU. But the replacement of unanimous voting with QMV in most cases is what drove myself and many others to vote to leave. Under QMV we don’t have a say if enough others disagree. The expansion of QMV was a massive power grab.
We had QMV because it was wanted by, wait for it....Mrs Thatcher ! The person that so many Leavers claim to be one of theirs. She wanted the eastern European countries in to balance the power of Germany (she was a bit obsessed with Germany). Unanimous voting was no longer practical with so many members, and this had been planned considerably before Lisbon. The single market and the addition of former eastern bloc countries was a Thatcher legacy that has been trashed by this referendum result. As I said before, we still have sovereignty and the ultimate right to say no, so no crazy "power-grab" by a faceless EU, just an international agreement. Thatcher was clever enough to understand this. The folk that claim to be her heirs are not.
Use of QMV was increased by the Nice Treaty and then massively increased again by Lisbon, both well after the good lady had departed the political scene.
To some extent, I agree with you. The British government, or at least the PMs, have always been pro-EU. That's why referendums have been off the agenda, no matter how much needed as a check and balance (and how much they've been promised). PMs tend to live in rarefied atmospheres unfortunately - a reason for Gordon's dismay at meeting Mrs Duffy, the bigoted woman.
Now, to Cameron's shock and dismay, the reality has become apparent. The dogs have been wakened. They will expect to be fed.
What a twat. Because Leavers have been running Brexit, huh?
#StateSecretsBlownWideOpen
So Heseltine wants a calamity for the country for point scoring purposes, Adonis thinks that is a "magisterial" position, and the whole thing gets the imprimatur of a re-bleat from Scottie. Congrats to all 3.
None us "want" a calamity. The grown ups know there already is one. Meanwhile Vladimir is chuckling away while he strokes his white cat.
Perhaps less of this stuff about "the grown ups" and so on? Because when you aren't telling us how clever you are you come across as being about as bright as the average leave voter, with a distinct bias to the downside. If you read the tweet to which I was replying you will see that you are wrong (again).
And before you say that I would say that, I'm a leaver: I am not a leaver.
Haha. I thought you were going to "ignore my posts"? Do stick to what you say, it will give you a greater appearance of integrity, and perhaps intelligence?
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Yes and no: it was adopted by the government two years ago, but due to what seems to be an oversight it wasn't actually in the official Tory code of conduct until last week. It has now been added.
Edit: Evolve Politics is of course a fake news website and anything it says should be treated with caution: even if there is a passing acquaintance with truth in some of its stories it will always be spun as hard as possible.
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
RobD “Of course they haven't demanded it. It's a slow, insidious creep towards a federal EU. One power grab at a time”
They can only "grab power" if we agree it, as I indicated in my post? The EU is a collective of 28/27 sovereign countries. The real power continues to reside with the Council of Ministers, who are elected representatives of each sovereign democratic state. (This is one of the other great lies, that EU is not democratic). It is most unlikely, given the nature of how it has always been run, that the 27 would completely ignore the wishes of the 28th. It maybe how the schoolboy fantasies of Nigel Farage that imagine this, but there is no evidence in the reality. Where it doesn't work so well is in reverse (which is what EU-loathers want now), where one state wants the other 27 to limit something (eg free movement) that the other 27 wish to retain. The "EU" are not the bully-boys here. We are, and we should be ashamed that our leaders have put us in this position.
You are right about the pre-Lisbon EU. But the replacement of unanimous voting with QMV in most cases is what drove myself and many others to vote to leave. Under QMV we don’t have a say if enough others disagree. The expansion of QMV was a massive power grab.
We had QMV because it was wanted by, wait for it....Mrs Thatcher ! The person that so many Leavers claim to be one of theirs. She wanted the eastern European countries in to balance the power of Germany (she was a bit obsessed with Germany). Unanimous voting was no longer practical with so many members, and this had been planned considerably before Lisbon. The single market and the addition of former eastern bloc countries was a Thatcher legacy that has been trashed by this referendum result. As I said before, we still have sovereignty and the ultimate right to say no, so no crazy "power-grab" by a faceless EU, just an international agreement. Thatcher was clever enough to understand this. The folk that claim to be her heirs are not.
Use of QMV was increased by the Nice Treaty and then massively increased again by Lisbon, both well after the good lady had departed the political scene.
Factually correct Mr Sandpit, but it does not change the core facts that a) the process was started as a result of a Thatcher foreign policy strategy of EU enlargement and Customs Union, and b) we still have sovereignty, though more of it pooled, as per Mr Williamglenn's original comment
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
No Tory has any chance in London, that's the point.
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
No Tory has any chance in London, that's the point.
Exactly. The Tories have lost London for the foreseeable future.
To some extent, I agree with you. The British government, or at least the PMs, have always been pro-EU. That's why referendums have been off the agenda, no matter how much needed as a check and balance (and how much they've been promised). PMs tend to live in rarefied atmospheres unfortunately - a reason for Gordon's dismay at meeting Mrs Duffy, the bigoted woman.
Now, to Cameron's shock and dismay, the reality has become apparent. The dogs have been wakened. They will expect to be fed.
A good post, thank you, and while we might agree "to some extent" there is hope for us all. Now I must go and have some supper. Good evening everyone
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I know, I also can not believe the attitudes of the remain MP's. The vote said "we want you MP's to make the laws we live under." MP's back "no, no it is too difficult for us to make some laws to protect workers rights."
Yes and no: it was adopted by the government two years ago, but due to what seems to be an oversight it wasn't actually in the official Tory code of conduct until last week. It has now been added.
Edit: Evolve Politics is of course a fake news website and anything it says should be treated with caution: even if there is a passing acquaintance with truth in some of its stories it will always be spun as hard as possible.
Thanks , seems like an oversight , one would have thought they would have made sure it was in place, before going on the offensive.
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Agree with that sentiment, the best chance for a Conservative would have been a local businessman. I’d heard rumours of Charlie Mullins from Pimlico Plumbers possibly putting his name forward, but he fell out with the party last year over Brexit.
I presume standing as the Tory candidate for Mayor of London is some highly rarefied kink? I can't imagine what other reason you'd have for such masochism.
Miles off topic, but big news in my part of the world.
An obituary for Julian Walker, the man who mapped what was the Trucial States, was in charge of the handover to what became the United Arab Emirates in 1971.
I presume standing as the Tory candidate for Mayor of London is some highly rarefied kink? I can't imagine what other reason you'd have for such masochism.
I think Sadiq is beatable by the right candidate, he's very weak on crime. Moped thieves are a blight on the city and he seems to have no answers.
Miles off topic, but big news in my part of the world.
An obituary for Julian Walker, the man who mapped what was the Trucial States, was in charge of the handover to what became the United Arab Emirates in 1971.
Just been reading that BA are trialling new seats in club class, finally. They've fallen so far behind the competition I was reconsidering my annual points drive to keep my gold status. Hopefully they will update all of their routes with the new seating plan and new seats.
The new seats are great. They d been in use for a while though
First on the headline voting intention the biggest movement is Tory to UKIP with 10% of 2017 Tories now saying they would vote UKIP, followed by Labour to LD with 5% of 2017 Labour voters saying they would now vote LD.
By contrast there is little Tory Labour movement and what there is is fractionally net to the Tories, 4% of 2017 Labour voters would now vote Tory and 3% of 2017 Tory voters would now vote Labour.
On the head to heads Boris holds most Tory voters with 87% followed by Mogg on 86% against Labour.
Boris wins most Labour voters, gaining 4% of those who voted for Corbyn in 2017 followed by 3% for Mogg.
Javid does best with LDs gaining 6% of those who voted for the yellows in 2017 followed by 4% for Mogg
Just been reading that BA are trialling new seats in club class, finally. They've fallen so far behind the competition I was reconsidering my annual points drive to keep my gold status. Hopefully they will update all of their routes with the new seating plan and new seats.
The new seats are great. They d been in use for a while though
Are they still 8 across and half facing backwards in the 773?
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit and the main reason Tory voters are more Remain than 2017 is 10% of 2017 Tory voters have switched to UKIP
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
If getting unanimous support was so easy, why'd they move most things to QMV?
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
An extension of A50 requires unanimous approval from the other 27 EU states. It’s easy to see how one might get set up to disagree and promulgate the crash-out instead.
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Technically two London Assembly Members and 1 councillor.
Lord Sugar may fancy his chances as an independent give the field, he is certainly no Khan fan as his tweets make clear
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit and the main reason Tory voters are more Remain than 2017 is 10% of 2017 Tory voters have switched to UKIP
Perhaps remainers should fund UKIP to get it back on its feet so it can filter more loonies out of the Conservative Party.
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
It's as straightforward as herding the 27 relevant cats into agreeing it, and meeting any requirements they may impose as a condition of their agreement.
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Technically two London Assembly Members and 1 councillor.
Lord Sugar may fancy his chances as an independent give the field, he is certainly no Khan fan as his tweets make clear
Good call. An “indendepent centre-leftie for zero-tolerance of moped gangs” candidate could well either win or split the vote sufficiently for the Tory to come through the middle.
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
It's not that it's difficult. The Brexit promised in the referendum is impossible.
Just like the EU "just a common market" was. It's funny how these rules only apply one way.
Remainers justify Brexit being cancelled based on scare stories, when the last lot of scare stories have already been proven untrue. Even under a no deal exit, we would have two months of bad headlines, a moderate slowdown and then an economic bounce back.
The damage from democracy being shown to be a sham, where votes are only counted when it's in a pro-EU direction, would be far more damaging.
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit
Absolute bollocks. You need to stop lying about polls.
willianglenn: “Sovereign does not mean independent. Sovereignty has been pooled, not given away.”
The sovereignty argument was not adequately dealt with during the referendum. The amount of Leave voters who say it is about sovereignty, but don't seem to have the first concept of what sovereignty means.
Scotland is not sovereign. This is why it cannot have an independence referendum that is binding without checking with (sovereign) Westminster. Scotland cannot declare war. Scotland cannot have a seat at the UN.
The UK is only bound by the rules of EU because it chooses to do so as a sovereign country. If it does not wish to, as with any of of the other sovereign states, it may leave. If UK was not sovereign as liars such as Farage would have us believe, we would have needed permission from Brussels to defend Falklands, to go to war in Iraq, Afghanistan. We would perhaps have to accept a system of PR, drive on the right, have speed limits in KMH and accept Napoleonic law principles.
Now, I know all the swivel-eyed are going to say that all these things were going to happen, along with the succession of Turkey, but this is all BS. The reality is that without us integration will accelerate, and when we inevitably go back in, in approximately 50 years we will probably have to accept the single currency and numerous other things that we would not have had to had we stayed in. Self harm, nothing else!
No, more likely the EU splits with the Eurozone staying in and the rest joining a reformed EFTA
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
An extension of A50 requires unanimous approval from the other 27 EU states. It’s easy to see how one might get set up to disagree and promulgate the crash-out instead.
But an extension would be in everyone's interest. It would allow enough time for a general election where different programmes for leaving could be put to the electorate. It would be a lot easier to get agreement if you had a party in power with a working majority and a mandate for what it was trying to achieve. Why not wait until then?
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
An extension of A50 requires unanimous approval from the other 27 EU states. It’s easy to see how one might get set up to disagree and promulgate the crash-out instead.
But an extension would be in everyone's interest. It would allow enough time for a general election where different programmes for leaving could be put to the electorate. It would be a lot easier to get agreement if you had a party in power with a working majority and a mandate for what it was trying to achieve. Why not wait until then?
Because it's an obvious - and admitted - ruse to cancel Brexit and invalidate a democratic result.
Fantastic that Shaun Bailey is on the short list. He is owed some support from the Party and it would be well deserved.
I came into a lot of contact with Joy Morrissey in Ealing/Acton as she managed to turn a Cons/Lab marginal into a safe Labour seat. In her selection speech, I believe she started out on the wrong foot by telling Members that the Cons had to court the UKIP vote. Part of her shellacking was on account of her insufficiently robust support of Remain. I can't see that playing well as potential London mayor. Plus her accent, although of course no consequence I'm sure to many, might be an issue in these Trumpian days (she is an American).
Never heard of the third one.
I am already quite green on Shaun Bailey; I might top up a bit now.
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
An extension of A50 requires unanimous approval from the other 27 EU states. It’s easy to see how one might get set up to disagree and promulgate the crash-out instead.
But an extension would be in everyone's interest. It would allow enough time for a general election where different programmes for leaving could be put to the electorate. It would be a lot easier to get agreement if you had a party in power with a working majority and a mandate for what it was trying to achieve. Why not wait until then?
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
An extension of A50 requires unanimous approval from the other 27 EU states. It’s easy to see how one might get set up to disagree and promulgate the crash-out instead.
But an extension would be in everyone's interest. It would allow enough time for a general election where different programmes for leaving could be put to the electorate. It would be a lot easier to get agreement if you had a party in power with a working majority and a mandate for what it was trying to achieve. Why not wait until then?
Your comment only relates to the U.K. side. Why wouldn’t the EU side decide between themselves that Luxembourg was unhappy to extend and the UK crashes out on March 29th instead?
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
It's as straightforward as herding the 27 relevant cats into agreeing it, and meeting any requirements they may impose as a condition of their agreement.
I think the point is that it's clearly anticipated in the treaty so a process doesn't need to be invented. Although it's hard to see one, let alone 27 cats being thus herded if all that is being granted is more years for the UK to totally fail to come to terms with the reality of being a third country. It would probably be easier to get majority consent for full withdrawal of A50 notice with just a condition that no new notice could be served for (say) 5 years. Of course it's also not clear that consent is needed to withdraw the notice in any case so it has to be considered as one of the plausible ways out of the current mess (with the newly-appointed PM who withdraws it naturally claiming it's a temporary measure while sorting out his/her predecessor's toxic legacy of failed negotiation).
I see Barnier in the FT today was complaining that Chequers would leave the EU without decision-making "autonomy". Amazing how it's legitimate for the EU to fight for that but the UK is racist for wanting the same.
I came into a lot of contact with Joy Morrissey in Ealing/Acton as she managed to turn a Cons/Lab marginal into a safe Labour seat. In her selection speech, I believe she started out on the wrong foot by telling Members that the Cons had to court the UKIP vote. Part of her shellacking was on account of her insufficiently robust support of Remain. I can't see that playing well as potential London mayor. Plus her accent, although of course no consequence I'm sure to many, might be an issue in these Trumpian days (she is an American).
So she'd get Lionel Shriver and Janet Daley's votes... There must be more such people in London.
Yes and no: it was adopted by the government two years ago, but due to what seems to be an oversight it wasn't actually in the official Tory code of conduct until last week. It has now been added.
Edit: Evolve Politics is of course a fake news website and anything it says should be treated with caution: even if there is a passing acquaintance with truth in some of its stories it will always be spun as hard as possible.
Thanks , seems like an oversight , one would have thought they would have made sure it was in place, before going on the offensive.
You think Theresa May should have done something that requires basic competence.
Can't fault your logic, but in light of past experience I can only admire your optimism!
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit
Absolute bollocks. You need to stop lying about polls.
On first preference 19% of 2017 Tories would Remain, while 20% of 2017 Labour voters would leave with or without a deal.
On second preferences 7% of 2017 Labour voters would Leave without a deal and 4% of 2017 Tory voters would Remain
“It’s too difficult to leave the EU, so we should stop trying”.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
I have just read the article. That isn't what he is saying at all. Incidentally the article does contain a bit of Article 50 I didn't know about.
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
An extension of A50 requires unanimous approval from the other 27 EU states. It’s easy to see how one might get set up to disagree and promulgate the crash-out instead.
But an extension would be in everyone's interest. It would allow enough time for a general election where different programmes for leaving could be put to the electorate. It would be a lot easier to get agreement if you had a party in power with a working majority and a mandate for what it was trying to achieve. Why not wait until then?
How would that work? There'd only be one deal on the table.
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
France and Spain are really going to stop tourists coming?
I see Barnier in the FT today was complaining that Chequers would leave the EU without decision-making "autonomy". Amazing how it's legitimate for the EU to fight for that but the UK is racist for wanting the same.
I don't think he has any problem with the UK having decision-making autonomy, merely the UK leaving the EU but wishing to retain a binding degree of influence on the EU's decision-making. Presumably he's keen to take back control after Brexit and ensure that there's an end to meddling by politicians that nobody in the (remaining) EU voted for?
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
The Millennium Bug was a relative non-event because thousands of experts worked diligently for years to ensure there would not be a disaster.
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
Yes, a huge amount of IT resources were put in place to ensure the Bug didn't happen.
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit
Absolute bollocks. You need to stop lying about polls.
On first preference 19% of 2017 Tories would Remain, while 20% of 2017 Labour voters would leave with or without a deal.
You need help. Your statement "more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit" is a lie whichever way you cut it. You owe the forum an apology.
If you want to look at 2017 voters, only 16% of 2017 Labour voters support No Deal, while 66% support Remain and 4% support Chequers. Meanwhile 19% of 2017 Tory voters support Remain, 57% support No Deal and 15% support Chequers.
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Technically two London Assembly Members and 1 councillor.
Lord Sugar may fancy his chances as an independent give the field, he is certainly no Khan fan as his tweets make clear
Good call. An “indendepent centre-leftie for zero-tolerance of moped gangs” candidate could well either win or split the vote sufficiently for the Tory to come through the middle.
Sugar is not centre left, he was a Thatcherite in the 80s, then a Blairite, then a Brownite, now a Remainer Tory. His politics has swung close to London's bar he hates Corbyn and Khan.
Certainly as a tough on crime, knows how to run things populist he could win. After all his Apprentice host counterpart in the US did not do too badly when he entered politics did he?
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit and the main reason Tory voters are more Remain than 2017 is 10% of 2017 Tory voters have switched to UKIP
Perhaps remainers should fund UKIP to get it back on its feet so it can filter more loonies out of the Conservative Party.
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Technically two London Assembly Members and 1 councillor.
Lord Sugar may fancy his chances as an independent give the field, he is certainly no Khan fan as his tweets make clear
Serious, but sad question, is being Jewish a bar to winning political office in London ?
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
Given it has been sunny all summer and is up to 35 degrees this week in the UK who needs the Med?
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
France and Spain are really going to stop tourists coming?
It must already be close to the point where travel agencies and airlines can’t book flights and accommodations for next summer that are insurable against cancellation. Resorts in France, Spain, Portugal and Italy are going bust if the British block bookings don’t get confirmed soon.
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit
Absolute bollocks. You need to stop lying about polls.
On first preference 19% of 2017 Tories would Remain, while 20% of 2017 Labour voters would leave with or without a deal.
You need help. Your statement "more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit" is a lie whichever way you cut it. You owe the forum an apology.
If you want to look at 2017 voters, only 16% of 2017 Labour voters support No Deal, while 66% support Remain and 4% support Chequers. Meanwhile 19% of 2017 Tory voters support Remain, 57% support No Deal and 15% support Chequers.
No it is not a lie as 2017 Tories are what really count given the defections to UKIP.
Without 2017 Tories there is no way the Tories will win the next general election.
As your figures show on first preferences more 2017 Labour voters back Leave ie 20% than the 19% of Tories who back Remain. As I showed on second preferences more 2017 Labour voters give their votes to No Deal than 2017 Tories give their votes to Remain
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit and the main reason Tory voters are more Remain than 2017 is 10% of 2017 Tory voters have switched to UKIP
Perhaps remainers should fund UKIP to get it back on its feet so it can filter more loonies out of the Conservative Party.
And hand the next general election to Corbyn
I don't think there's anything the Tories can do to stay in power. I say that with some sadness - I've voted Tory almost all my life (bar '97), and I don't find anything much to love about this government.
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
Given it has been sunny all summer and is up to 35 degrees this week in the UK who needs the Med?
Well, having just come back I would say that the food's in the cafe's is better and the booze is cheaper. Need to stick to the local beer though.
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Technically two London Assembly Members and 1 councillor.
Lord Sugar may fancy his chances as an independent give the field, he is certainly no Khan fan as his tweets make clear
Serious, but sad question, is being Jewish a bar to winning political office in London ?
I'm surprised the Tories didn't go down the Andy Street route and to try and find a relatively independent businessman to stand for them. Either that or some sort of ex police chief to combat crime. Three little known councillors have no chance.
Technically two London Assembly Members and 1 councillor.
Lord Sugar may fancy his chances as an independent give the field, he is certainly no Khan fan as his tweets make clear
Serious, but sad question, is being Jewish a bar to winning political office in London ?
There's a curious phenomenon that the latest YouGov poll shows. Conservative voters are now more Remainy than they were in 2017, despite the party being indelibly associated with Brexit. If Conservative Leavers start to get cold feet, the last remaining domestic political barrier to a second referendum will fall away.
Though more Conservative voters back No Deal Brexit than Labour voters oppose No Deal Brexit and the main reason Tory voters are more Remain than 2017 is 10% of 2017 Tory voters have switched to UKIP
Perhaps remainers should fund UKIP to get it back on its feet so it can filter more loonies out of the Conservative Party.
And hand the next general election to Corbyn
I don't think there's anything the Tories can do to stay in power. I say that with some sadness - I've voted Tory almost all my life (bar '97), and I don't find anything much to love about this government.
Well Boris ties Corbyn with Yougov while May, Mogg, Javid, Gove and Hunt trail Corbyn so it looks like either Boris succeeds May or Corbyn becomes PM after the next general election
I've just heard that a very close friend of mine has died after committing suicide and I'm just totally devastated
My condolences.
I remember when someone I was at school with took their own life out of the blue after the end of a relationship, it is difficult to ever understand what people are feeling internally
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
Given it has been sunny all summer and is up to 35 degrees this week in the UK who needs the Med?
Well, having just come back I would say that the food's in the cafe's is better and the booze is cheaper. Need to stick to the local beer though.
Some Brighton, Cornish, Lake District, even Southend restaurants and cafes are excellent but of course you don't just have to travel abroad for Sun and the beach and pool, you can go for culture or walking holidays too
Interesting debate on a holiday club Facebook page or 'After Brexit'. Some of the sites are in UK, some in Western Europe. General opinion was that'everything would be allright', there'd be no problems getting to the Club's sites in France and Spain. Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
The Millennium Bug was a relative non-event because thousands of experts worked diligently for years to ensure there would not be a disaster.
Brexit has the likes of JRM, Fox and Davis.
It's hard to conclude we're not screwed.
That's a good comment. The hard work is done by quiet people away from the madding crowd and really not appreciated I think. When it goes wrong in this digital age it goes very wrong, but when it works it goes unnoticed. Think TSB; etc. The advice not to put all one's eggs in one basket is centuries old. But we often do.
Comments
Is this true ?
And before you say that I would say that, I'm a leaver: I am not a leaver.
Who knew....
How much more Leave is there?
Matthew Parris"
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/brexit-is-in-chaos-its-time-to-delay-it-then-stop-it/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_European_Union
To some extent, I agree with you. The British government, or at least the PMs, have always been pro-EU. That's why referendums have been off the agenda, no matter how much needed as a check and balance (and how much they've been promised). PMs tend to live in rarefied atmospheres unfortunately - a reason for Gordon's dismay at meeting Mrs Duffy, the bigoted woman.
Now, to Cameron's shock and dismay, the reality has become apparent. The dogs have been wakened. They will expect to be fed.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-conservative-party-rulebook-doesnt-mention-antisemitism
Edit: Evolve Politics is of course a fake news website and anything it says should be treated with caution: even if there is a passing acquaintance with truth in some of its stories it will always be spun as hard as possible.
Okay then, how many Leavers is he expecting to be turned around with that argument?
https://xkcd.com/2023
Black, Irish, Disabled, Gay and against the Bomb ! [ Note there was nothing about Climate change or Animal Rights - we were not that progressive! ]
Oh.
Hmmmmmm
An obituary for Julian Walker, the man who mapped what was the Trucial States, was in charge of the handover to what became the United Arab Emirates in 1971.
https://www.thenational.ae/uae/british-diplomat-who-mapped-the-borders-of-the-emirates-dies-aged-89-1.753231
https://twitter.com/stephenpollard/status/1020968741994196993?s=21
First on the headline voting intention the biggest movement is Tory to UKIP with 10% of 2017 Tories now saying they would vote UKIP, followed by Labour to LD with 5% of 2017 Labour voters saying they would now vote LD.
By contrast there is little Tory Labour movement and what there is is fractionally net to the Tories, 4% of 2017 Labour voters would now vote Tory and 3% of 2017 Tory voters would now vote Labour.
On the head to heads Boris holds most Tory voters with 87% followed by Mogg on 86% against Labour.
Boris wins most Labour voters, gaining 4% of those who voted for Corbyn in 2017 followed by 3% for Mogg.
Javid does best with LDs gaining 6% of those who voted for the yellows in 2017 followed by 4% for Mogg
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44927845
‘3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
So it looks like extending the negotiation period is quite straight forward after all. That's not the impression I got.
Lord Sugar may fancy his chances as an independent give the field, he is certainly no Khan fan as his tweets make clear
Remainers justify Brexit being cancelled based on scare stories, when the last lot of scare stories have already been proven untrue. Even under a no deal exit, we would have two months of bad headlines, a moderate slowdown and then an economic bounce back.
The damage from democracy being shown to be a sham, where votes are only counted when it's in a pro-EU direction, would be far more damaging.
Fantastic that Shaun Bailey is on the short list. He is owed some support from the Party and it would be well deserved.
I came into a lot of contact with Joy Morrissey in Ealing/Acton as she managed to turn a Cons/Lab marginal into a safe Labour seat. In her selection speech, I believe she started out on the wrong foot by telling Members that the Cons had to court the UKIP vote. Part of her shellacking was on account of her insufficiently robust support of Remain. I can't see that playing well as potential London mayor. Plus her accent, although of course no consequence I'm sure to many, might be an issue in these Trumpian days (she is an American).
Never heard of the third one.
I am already quite green on Shaun Bailey; I might top up a bit now.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/22/article-50-extension-unlikely-without-shift-in-uk-politics-say-eu-officials
It highlights some of the issues from the EU perspective.
Can't fault your logic, but in light of past experience I can only admire your optimism!
Basically summed up by the member who opined that it was the Millenium Bug all over again.
I wonder .........
On second preferences 7% of 2017 Labour voters would Leave without a deal and 4% of 2017 Tory voters would Remain
Brexit has the likes of JRM, Fox and Davis.
It's hard to conclude we're not screwed.
If you want to look at 2017 voters, only 16% of 2017 Labour voters support No Deal, while 66% support Remain and 4% support Chequers. Meanwhile 19% of 2017 Tory voters support Remain, 57% support No Deal and 15% support Chequers.
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/kgfdyeogty/SundayTimesResults_180720_for_web.pdf
Certainly as a tough on crime, knows how to run things populist he could win. After all his Apprentice host counterpart in the US did not do too badly when he entered politics did he?
Without 2017 Tories there is no way the Tories will win the next general election.
As your figures show on first preferences more 2017 Labour voters back Leave ie 20% than the 19% of Tories who back Remain. As I showed on second preferences more 2017 Labour voters give their votes to No Deal than 2017 Tories give their votes to Remain
I remember when someone I was at school with took their own life out of the blue after the end of a relationship, it is difficult to ever understand what people are feeling internally
The advice not to put all one's eggs in one basket is centuries old. But we often do.