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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Away from Trump/Brexit/Antisemitism Sean Fear on the perils of

SystemSystem Posts: 6,199
edited August 2 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Away from Trump/Brexit/Antisemitism Sean Fear on the perils of running a pub

Over the years, several clients have instructed me to help fulfil their lifetime’s dream, by purchasing a pub. My usual advice is “Don’t, but if you must, for Heaven’s sake, buy a freehold.” Running a pub successfully is one of the hardest jobs one can do. One has to manage temperamental staff, satisfy demanding customers who have plenty of alternative ways of spending their money, fulfil endless regulatory requirements, and deal with suppliers who are frequently unreliable. All in the face of supermarkets selling cheap booze, and the smoking ban. Turning a profit as a pub landlord requires a working week of at least 60 hours, and taking these hours into account, you probably won’t earn more than the minimum wage in any event.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,694
    1
  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,300
    2
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,138
    Why is there always a new thread just after I have posted a particularly witty and pithy comment on the old one?!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 45,416
    edited August 2
    3 No 4 !
  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,300

    Why is there always a new thread just after I have posted a particularly witty and pithy comment on the old one?!

    It’s the Curse of the New Thread.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,814
    Is there anything that Corbyn can say in his possible speech tomorrow that can close the anti-semitism thing down?

    I don't even think that adopting the full set of examples would do it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,138
    edited August 2
    Interesting thread header*. I wonder why capitalism scored so badly in that recent poll?

    Edit: * But I'm confused - what's this got to do with Brexit and why is it posted on PerpetualBrexit.com? :wink:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,138

    Is there anything that Corbyn can say in his possible speech tomorrow that can close the anti-semitism thing down?

    I don't even think that adopting the full set of examples would do it.

    I resign?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    FPT:

    Incidentally, thinking of drops and slips, surely if Stokes is available and Moeen comes back Malan will get the chop? Can't buy a run and has dropped two vital catches.

    On today's innings, three of England's batsmen did an OK job - Root, Bairstow and Jennings. Only Kohli can say the same for India and he's had to have several let-offs.

    This has not been an impressive match by the batsmen.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 29,120
    Sounds like the old joke...how do you become a millionaire in the restaurant biz, start as a multi-millionaire.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 29,120
    edited August 2
    Probably just realized it clashed with a prearranged jam making sess.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 15,062
    When will the labour mps resign the whip. They condone Corbyn if they do not
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,814

    Is there anything that Corbyn can say in his possible speech tomorrow that can close the anti-semitism thing down?

    I don't even think that adopting the full set of examples would do it.

    I resign?
    That would deal with some of it. But as the speech has now been denied, we will never know.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,138
    O/T Big shout to NigelB for his...

    "India's 50 up.
    Not looking promising."


    ...post earlier today. Well done that man!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    edited August 2
    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,694

    Is there anything that Corbyn can say in his possible speech tomorrow that can close the anti-semitism thing down?

    I don't even think that adopting the full set of examples would do it.

    "I have come to my senses and realised that the safety of its own citizens must be the primary concern of government, and that my conviction that anti-semitism in London is a price worth paying for justice in Palestine makes me unfit to serve in a UK government - absolutely irrespective of whether it is correct or not. Goodbye."
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,467
    FPT:
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:


    And, hunting about, there is some academic research on the subject, including this:

    http://repository.essex.ac.uk/17434/1/Quinn_Labour_Leadership_Election_2015_Accepted_Version_2.pdf

    Far be it for PB posters to advance a theory that conflicts with the evidence, but Corbyn polled 44% of pre-2010 members, and would likely have won under any membership ballot arrangement (but not the old electoral college).

    In fairness, it does also contain evidence that the drive for supporters went beyond traditional Labour voters - indeed a striking statistic that according to YouGov fully a quarter of the new registered supporters had voted for the Green Party in the 2015 election (so, rather than Corbyn killing the Greens, as some have assumed, it was the supporter mechanism that did play a part in drastically cutting support for that party, as the polls have shown since), with a full 92% of these ex-Greens going on to vote for Corbyn.

    The
    snip

    Thanks for that info. I also had previously thought that the Labour membership was always pretty left wing. I can’t believe that anyone thought the Labour membership was dominated by people with the outlook of Tony Blair. The views documented in that poll of Labour members earlier on this year (e.g. negative view of American influence, negative view of Israel) seemed to shock a lot of the commentariat on twitter, but I suspect Labour members have long had that outlook.
    The key point is that at the time of the leadership election they were no longer prepared to do the usual thing and turn their back on the left in favour of a supposedly "electable" candidate. If only Mrs Beckett and the others had been more aware of their members' changing attitudes!

    The ongoing fallout from the financial crash coupled with Miliband's failure on a centerist platform appear to be the principal drivers, with the supporter programme and the membership expansion just adding fuel to the fire.

    That the supporter programme became the mechanism that decimated the Green Party was something I didn't realise, assuming like most people that they came after Corbyn rather than before.
    Re your first point - yes, just reading the research paper moderates had also donated votes to Diane Abbott’s candidacy in 2010. I suspect they thought Corbyn’s campaign would go the same way. I remember in 2015 that people like Toby Young were claiming Labour lost because they were ‘too left wing.’


  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,138
    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,300
    Thanks for the header. Does strike me as anticompetitive.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,492

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Not just pubs - the same could be said for a range of business, leisure and community uses - that the value of a building is so much more valuable as residential housing in much of the country has wide-ranging knock on effects.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 37,835

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.

    Two pubs in the local villages have just been converted into 4 flats each
  • RobDRobD Posts: 33,300
    Scott_P said:
    As each day passes I grow more amazed that this story hasn’t been shut down.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 549

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Asset of Community Value status helps here. It saved a pub in our town from being converted to housing; it's now an enormously successful and rather trendy gastropub, with Cameron and Beckham among its recent clientele.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,694

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Indeed. Once they drop the price of the sale by 20%, somebody will buy it for conversion to housing.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,694

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Asset of Community Value status helps here. It saved a pub in our town from being converted to housing; it's now an enormously successful and rather trendy gastropub, with Cameron and Beckham among its recent clientele.
    You say that like it's a good thing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,374
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
    Many country pubs are successful, but they need to offer good food to survive,

    And, always buy a freehold, not a leasehold.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 22,852

    Is there anything that Corbyn can say in his possible speech tomorrow that can close the anti-semitism thing down?

    I don't even think that adopting the full set of examples would do it.

    "I'm not anti semitic, it's all a lie put out by the Jewish controlled media."
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,694
    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
    Many country pubs are successful, but they need to offer good food to survive,

    And, always buy a freehold, not a leasehold.
    Indeed, but I classify them as pub-like restaurants, not pubs.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 10,195
    Great piece, thanks Sean.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    Ishant leading a sodding charmed life.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
    Many country pubs are successful, but they need to offer good food to survive,

    And, always buy a freehold, not a leasehold.
    Something like this one:

    https://www.thegeorge-cambridge.co.uk
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,374
    ydoethur said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
    Many country pubs are successful, but they need to offer good food to survive,

    And, always buy a freehold, not a leasehold.
    Something like this one:

    https://www.thegeorge-cambridge.co.uk
    Very much so. Actually, there are some very fine pubs like that in the villages around Luton
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 3,814
    rcs1000 said:

    Is there anything that Corbyn can say in his possible speech tomorrow that can close the anti-semitism thing down?

    I don't even think that adopting the full set of examples would do it.

    "I'm not anti semitic, it's all a lie put out by the Jewish controlled media."
    Perfect. No need for further discussion.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,661
    ydoethur said:

    Ishant leading a sodding charmed life.

    Yes. It's looking likely that they'll reach the England score with ease.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,374
    rcs1000 said:

    Is there anything that Corbyn can say in his possible speech tomorrow that can close the anti-semitism thing down?

    I don't even think that adopting the full set of examples would do it.

    "I'm not anti semitic, it's all a lie put out by the Jewish controlled media."
    "I'm not anti-Semitic. Some of my best friends are Jews.."
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,467
    Re the ongoing antisemitism story, I think part of the problem is that Corbyn himself doesn’t seem that fussed in dealing with it and shutting down the story. I wouldn’t be surprised if that planned speech is the product of others around him putting the pressure on to do something (like, say McDonnell) as opposed to something Corbyn felt really needed to be done.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,603
    Good article.

    While we're about it, can we also outlaw upwards-only rent reviews generally? They are manifestly unfair: if the rent is pegged is the market, it should be pegged to the market. Not 'heads I win, tails you lose'.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 20,837
    Anorak said:
    Looks above board to me. The x-axis is clearly meant to be on a diagonal and you're supposed to tilt your head and imagine the height of the bars is determined by the top right corner.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,374

    Good article.

    While we're about it, can we also outlaw upwards-only rent reviews generally? They are manifestly unfair: if the rent is pegged is the market, it should be pegged to the market. Not 'heads I win, tails you lose'.

    Thanks. It is very unusual for commercial rents generally to fall (although they did from 1990-95).
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,603
    Sean_F said:

    Good article.

    While we're about it, can we also outlaw upwards-only rent reviews generally? They are manifestly unfair: if the rent is pegged is the market, it should be pegged to the market. Not 'heads I win, tails you lose'.

    Thanks. It is very unusual for commercial rents generally to fall (although they did from 1990-95).
    True, but shop rents have fallen in many areas.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 10,760
    Unexpected and interesting piece - thanks Sean!
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,134

    Sean_F said:

    Good article.

    While we're about it, can we also outlaw upwards-only rent reviews generally? They are manifestly unfair: if the rent is pegged is the market, it should be pegged to the market. Not 'heads I win, tails you lose'.

    Thanks. It is very unusual for commercial rents generally to fall (although they did from 1990-95).
    True, but shop rents have fallen in many areas.
    Isn't upward only rent reviews a distortion of the free market ?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 18,603
    surby said:

    Sean_F said:

    Good article.

    While we're about it, can we also outlaw upwards-only rent reviews generally? They are manifestly unfair: if the rent is pegged is the market, it should be pegged to the market. Not 'heads I win, tails you lose'.

    Thanks. It is very unusual for commercial rents generally to fall (although they did from 1990-95).
    True, but shop rents have fallen in many areas.
    Isn't upward only rent reviews a distortion of the free market ?
    Yes, precisely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    edited August 2
    Anorak said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishant leading a sodding charmed life.

    Yes. It's looking likely that they'll reach the England score with ease.
    Your superpowers have stopped working!

    Edit - can I look unbearably smug now? :smiley:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,683
    ydoethur said:

    Anorak said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishant leading a sodding charmed life.

    Yes. It's looking likely that they'll reach the England score with ease.
    Your superpowers have stopped working!
    And that's why Rashid was picked.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,374

    Sean_F said:

    Good article.

    While we're about it, can we also outlaw upwards-only rent reviews generally? They are manifestly unfair: if the rent is pegged is the market, it should be pegged to the market. Not 'heads I win, tails you lose'.

    Thanks. It is very unusual for commercial rents generally to fall (although they did from 1990-95).
    True, but shop rents have fallen in many areas.
    What makes it worse for the Pub Co tenants (compared to the average commercial tenant) is that their success in running the business is taken into account in reviewing the rent - upwards. Most commercial leases, by contrast, expressly exclude the effect on rent of the goodwill of the business operated by the tenant. One is simply paying for square footage.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,527
    Why did nobody claim “thirst” at the start of the thread?
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
    Just wait for the drink drive limit to be reduced to the same level as Scotland. It has really hurt country pubs up here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    edited August 2
    welshowl said:

    Why did nobody claim “thirst” at the start of the thread?

    Because anyone with a thirst went straight to the nearest pub to slake it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 14,128
    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    TOPPING said:

    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.

    The hours are also incredibly anti-social. You work probably from 11 in the morning until 11 at night probably 6 days a week, not including ordering, paperwork, tidying etc.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 4,661
    ydoethur said:

    Anorak said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishant leading a sodding charmed life.

    Yes. It's looking likely that they'll reach the England score with ease.
    Your superpowers have stopped working!

    Edit - can I look unbearably smug now? :smiley:
    Not quite yet. Not until after Kohli's gone on a bonkers spree of last-ditch boundaries, which is inevitable now.
  • Post Office have headed the same way as Pub Co. Though not as bad, they do expect the owner to subsidise any post office by using their own staff and premises and all rates, rents, utilities etc paid for by owner, and not PO.
    PO are no longer able to be stand alone businesses.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    Anorak said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anorak said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ishant leading a sodding charmed life.

    Yes. It's looking likely that they'll reach the England score with ease.
    Your superpowers have stopped working!

    Edit - can I look unbearably smug now? :smiley:
    Not quite yet. Not until after Kohli's gone on a bonkers spree of last-ditch boundaries, which is inevitable now.
    He seems to have already started.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,683
    Well deserved century from Kholi.
    Malan hasn't done his prospects for a settled place in the team much good by dropping him twice. And inability to catch ought also to factor in when deciding when to retire Cook.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 3,527
    ydoethur said:

    welshowl said:

    Why did nobody claim “thirst” at the start of the thread?

    Because anyone with a thirst went straight to the nearest pub to slake it.
    In fairness it’s hot
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,374
    TOPPING said:

    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.

    Yes, it's my idea of hell, but for many people, it' a dream.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,940
    Great article Sean.

    It’s an absolutely shocking read. It’s about time there was primary legislation to regulate and constrain their activities, which I see as only one step removed from property buying companies which most residential sellers use only in extremis when they must quickly release cash.

    I suspect their behaviours have played a significant part in the large number of pub closures over the last 10-15 years.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 14,128
    Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.

    Yes, it's my idea of hell, but for many people, it' a dream.
    Indeed and good article thanks it's always good to get the facts on things like this set out concisely.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    welshowl said:

    ydoethur said:

    welshowl said:

    Why did nobody claim “thirst” at the start of the thread?

    Because anyone with a thirst went straight to the nearest pub to slake it.
    In fairness it’s hot
    The best drinking joke I ever heard - nothing to do with pubs actually - was a former organist of Thornbury Parish Church. He was once told by the then Vicar's wife, 'I don't believe you're a true Christian. You've never seen Jesus.'
    Very miffed, he retorted, 'You don't know what I've seen when I've had a couple of pints.'
    And the next Sunday, he was on the three manual organ of Wickwar.

    I still use that when teaching RS as a discussion point on religious experiences. It's not quite the best summary of the problem I've ever heard, but it's much safer than the very best.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,940
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
    That’s not true. There are three country pubs near me that are extremely successful.

    It isn’t hard: serve good beer and very very good good food, and great service.

    Well, ok, it is hard but those that get it right are very busy and popular.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,683

    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Country pubs are a lost cause, the business model depended on enough drunks (meaning, in the country, enough self-driving drunks) coming in night after night to polish off a week's worth of units in an evening, and smoke. Hankering for their return is pure back to the fifties stuff. It's like village shops, the people who lament their loss use them about once a year when they run out of butter and discover that the mark-up is such that it's worth driving the extra 5 miles to Tesco even if all you want is butter.
    Just wait for the drink drive limit to be reduced to the same level as Scotland. It has really hurt country pubs up here.
    The killer app for self-driving cars.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,683
    Thirdly, it would be a quick win for an unpopular government.

    That ought, surely, to be Firstly ?
  • Sean_F said:

    TOPPING said:

    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.

    Yes, it's my idea of hell, but for many people, it' a dream.
    It's like the people who plan to retire to Spain and run a B&B. They only imagine the fun bits.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,940

    Post Office have headed the same way as Pub Co. Though not as bad, they do expect the owner to subsidise any post office by using their own staff and premises and all rates, rents, utilities etc paid for by owner, and not PO.
    PO are no longer able to be stand alone businesses.

    My local village shop has an embedded post office. It’s fairly popular.

    How does the village shop survive?

    I asked the owner that question. They sell, stationery, takeaway coffee, takeaway ready meals and fresh organic produce that you’d get in Waitrose but undercut their prices. Also do fresh bread and pastries. They also deliver several hundred newspapers a day, and magazines a week, which is apparently more profitable than I thought. They also offer cash withdrawals.

    It also helps they are right opposite the village pub and open 6am-8pm a day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520
    To ram home a certain point I wearyingly make about Root, Kohli scores a century every five innings.

    The standard in Tendulkar's era for a great batsman was one every ten. That's roughly what Root is on (at one time he scored about one every 8).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,940
    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.

    The hours are also incredibly anti-social. You work probably from 11 in the morning until 11 at night probably 6 days a week, not including ordering, paperwork, tidying etc.
    Make that about 8.30-9am to about 12.30am the following morning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,683

    Anorak said:
    Looks above board to me. The x-axis is clearly meant to be on a diagonal and you're supposed to tilt your head and imagine the height of the bars is determined by the top right corner.
    The vertical axis is clearly momentum adjusted, so the percentage figures are naturally misleading.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.

    The hours are also incredibly anti-social. You work probably from 11 in the morning until 11 at night probably 6 days a week, not including ordering, paperwork, tidying etc.
    Make that about 8.30-9am to about 12.30am the following morning.
    Depends what you're running. If you're running a B and B as well, it might be longer. If it's a pure pub, might be a bit less.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,683
    Kohl now taking the piss. This could go on for several more overs.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,940

    Good article.

    While we're about it, can we also outlaw upwards-only rent reviews generally? They are manifestly unfair: if the rent is pegged is the market, it should be pegged to the market. Not 'heads I win, tails you lose'.

    Again, doesn’t help in mitigating the hollowing out of the high street.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,734
    Rashid bowling dismally here. When you only get a ball or two an over at the #11 you have to make them play.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520

    Rashid bowling dismally here. When you only get a ball or two an over at the #11 you have to make them play.

    Is that a surprise when it's over a year since he's bowled in first class cricket?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,940
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    TOPPING said:

    I can't see the attraction of owning either a pub or a restaurant.

    Difficult customers and you've got to be there the whole time with a smile on your face.

    The hours are also incredibly anti-social. You work probably from 11 in the morning until 11 at night probably 6 days a week, not including ordering, paperwork, tidying etc.
    Make that about 8.30-9am to about 12.30am the following morning.
    Depends what you're running. If you're running a B and B as well, it might be longer. If it's a pure pub, might be a bit less.
    You need the time in the morning to take deliveries, make calls, do paperwork and clean.

    After the punters have gone at night you’ve got a bit of tidying up and dishwashers etc. Of course, all depends how big/how many staff etc but I’m told that’s not untypical.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 22,852
    Ishmael_Z said:

    ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Asset of Community Value status helps here. It saved a pub in our town from being converted to housing; it's now an enormously successful and rather trendy gastropub, with Cameron and Beckham among its recent clientele.
    You say that like it's a good thing.
    There's only one thing worse than David Cameron hanging around your local...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 6,683
    ydoethur said:

    To ram home a certain point I wearyingly make about Root, Kohli scores a century every five innings.

    The standard in Tendulkar's era for a great batsman was one every ten. That's roughly what Root is on (at one time he scored about one every 8).

    First time he's ever really made good in England, though.
    Now he's ticked that off, particularly on an difficult pitch without much support, his test great credentials are without question.
    He even picked Dawid Malan to offer the odd chance to...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,164
    Great article Sean. As one of I’m sure many PBers who’s at some point worked in the licensed trade, it’s a very difficult business to run profitably, and I agree wholeheartedly that the Pub Cos are a nightmare for everyone who gets involved with them.

    The solution, of course, is for us all to spend more time and money as patrons of the Great British Pub. :D
  • surbysurby Posts: 1,134

    Rashid bowling dismally here. When you only get a ball or two an over at the #11 you have to make them play.

    If Rashid is bowling abysmally, what is Stokes doing ?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 5,315

    Post Office have headed the same way as Pub Co. Though not as bad, they do expect the owner to subsidise any post office by using their own staff and premises and all rates, rents, utilities etc paid for by owner, and not PO.
    PO are no longer able to be stand alone businesses.

    My local village shop has an embedded post office. It’s fairly popular.

    How does the village shop survive?

    I asked the owner that question. They sell, stationery, takeaway coffee, takeaway ready meals and fresh organic produce that you’d get in Waitrose but undercut their prices. Also do fresh bread and pastries. They also deliver several hundred newspapers a day, and magazines a week, which is apparently more profitable than I thought. They also offer cash withdrawals.

    It also helps they are right opposite the village pub and open 6am-8pm a day.
    My understanding is that you have to be up early (6am) to accept the newspapers and start assembling the newpaper supplements into the main newspapers ready to deliver them or have them available for customers to collect. This is stoppig our pub/post office from taking on newspapers as well.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 20,616
    Pubs, like libraries, inspire a lot of irrational sentimentality.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 24,940

    Post Office have headed the same way as Pub Co. Though not as bad, they do expect the owner to subsidise any post office by using their own staff and premises and all rates, rents, utilities etc paid for by owner, and not PO.
    PO are no longer able to be stand alone businesses.

    My local village shop has an embedded post office. It’s fairly popular.

    How does the village shop survive?

    I asked the owner that question. They sell, stationery, takeaway coffee, takeaway ready meals and fresh organic produce that you’d get in Waitrose but undercut their prices. Also do fresh bread and pastries. They also deliver several hundred newspapers a day, and magazines a week, which is apparently more profitable than I thought. They also offer cash withdrawals.

    It also helps they are right opposite the village pub and open 6am-8pm a day.
    My understanding is that you have to be up early (6am) to accept the newspapers and start assembling the newpaper supplements into the main newspapers ready to deliver them or have them available for customers to collect. This is stoppig our pub/post office from taking on newspapers as well.
    He gets up at 4am.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 5,315
    Sandpit said:

    Great article Sean. As one of I’m sure many PBers who’s at some point worked in the licensed trade, it’s a very difficult business to run profitably, and I agree wholeheartedly that the Pub Cos are a nightmare for everyone who gets involved with them.

    The solution, of course, is for us all to spend more time and money as patrons of the Great British Pub. :D

    I am told the most money is made by pubs from the one arm bandits and other 'gambling' machines.
  • ydoethur said:

    My sister's local pub (as in, two doors down) has just been brutally torn apart in just the fashion described. But they are now selling the freehold. Thing is, although it's an itneresting building it's not really suitable for residential use and at the same time it's not in a good position to be a successful local - it's on the edge of a town not near the middle. Although she was very upset, I was frankly surprised it hadn't closed earlier (and when I'm in Dursley I go to the Old Spot in the town centre or the George in Cam for preference anyway).

    It's been empty five months so far, could see it being on the market for two years.

    Another factor in the demise of pubs has been the escalating housing market. Many pub buildings are worth more as houses than pubs.
    Asset of Community Value status helps here. It saved a pub in our town from being converted to housing; it's now an enormously successful and rather trendy gastropub, with Cameron and Beckham among its recent clientele.
    It must have a day care creche for children left behind then....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 15,917
    Top header, excellent. CAMRA have been on about this for years.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 20,752
    A great threader, thanks, and an interesting read.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,488
    edited August 2
    An interesting header. It is not often that we have one deploring the predatory capitalists and damning the alienation of the worker from the means of production. Common to many areas of life to a large degree. It perhaps may explain why capitalism is very good at generating national income it has negative popularity. It sounds like the pub Co's need breaking up and some of their exploitative practices outlawed.

    I think that the average local is doomed. Trendy pubs in city centres and country pubs with food are probably surviving, but the equivalent of the Rovers Return is likely to go the way of Woolworths. We simply do not live like that anymore, or at least not enough of us do.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 11,520

    Pubs, like libraries, inspire a lot of irrational sentimentality.

    Usually after the fourth pint.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 7,734
    surby said:

    Rashid bowling dismally here. When you only get a ball or two an over at the #11 you have to make them play.

    If Rashid is bowling abysmally, what is Stokes doing ?
    The same. Though he has the defence of tiredness. Root's captaincy really poor here too - you have to defend the single on ball 5.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 1,001
    edited August 2

    Pubs, like libraries, inspire a lot of irrational sentimentality.

    Irrational and largely undeserved. Far from being an important social hub, if you go into the average pub it usually contains the same few, angry, lonely, alcoholic old men, mumbling sullenly about nothing.

    Basically like this place but with a stronger stench of stale urine.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 3,488

    Pubs, like libraries, inspire a lot of irrational sentimentality.

    Irrational and largely undeserved. Far from being an important social hub, if you go into the average pub it usually contains the same few, angry, lonely, alcoholic old men, mumbling sullenly about nothing.
    Looks around PB, and sees a virtual pub...and also sees a mirror.

    Now I do need a drink.
  • Interesting piece Sean and as my user name suggests I have more than a passing interest in these things.
    It certainly tallies with what I have seen over the last number of years.
    One local to me that was owned by a pub co that wanted 1/2 the machine take too on top all the other things.
    This was a pub that had 5 pool tables and generally got the latest machines, a previous landlord had estimated that machines gave about 40% of their revenue.
    The pub closed about 4 years ago and is awaiting redevelopment.
    The only plus point is that I bought the bell from the temporary landlord on the night it closed its doors for the final time.
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