Boris Johnson is back in the running for the Tory leadership.
Mr Johnson achieves the unlikely double of being both irrepressible and unsustainable. He is destined to discover that he never was, after all, toying with destiny: destiny was toying with him. Like Sisyphus he pushes his rock up the mountain. And still it rolls down again.
Thus it was we opened newspapers this week to read that a survey by the ConservativeHome website charts Boris’s triumphant return to the bosom and affections of Tory activists. After quitting the cabinet and disowning Theresa May’s Brexit plans, he’s back in the top slot of contenders for the Tory crown. Obviously, really. Brexiteers need a bus stop to wait at, and Johnson, having now purged himself of association with any actual destination, has regained the essential qualification: vacuity.
Why are Labour quietly reinstating people suspended for anti semitism?
If you are a militant fighter against anti semitism why did toy sit quietly at a meeting where a close ally made alleged anti semitic statements?
#jc9 - that is the answer. The ends justify etc etc.
Is that the reason you use to justify to yourself the Conservatives doing the same thing?
Or do you believe stuff like Anne Marie Morris comment, or the councillor who likes jokes about brown people being like dogs is actually okay so it is different?
I'm bemused that someone who is so concerned with sniffing out Islamaphobia in the Conservative Party is utterly blind to anti-Semitism within his own party. Something that not only many people within that party has said exists, but even your own leader.
The correct answer - especially for anyone claiming to be anti-racist - is to condemn it wherever it occurs, regardless of whether you are favourable or not to the party it is in.
Something that is sadly beyond you - because you are not anti-racist: you are just blindly pro the hard-left.
The post I responded to said '#jc9 - that is the answer. The ends justify etc etc.' in response to a post that asked why Labour were quietly reinstating people suspended for anti-Semitism.
So my post asked rottenborough if that was the reason he justified voting for the conservatives when they had also quietly reinstated people suspended for racism.
As if you are going to argue that makes a political party untouchable then you can't really vote for a party doing exactly the same thing.
Best thing to do is click the previous quotes thing to get a flavour of the conversation rather than making incorrect assumptions about what it is about.
I was not referring to that individual post; just the weight of your posts that downplay or deny the issues with anti-Semitism within your party and with your leader.
You point at problems within the Conservative Party, yet downplay those within your own branch of your party and even the wider party. I really hope you don't class yourself as an anti-racist ...
Because May kept putting off the crunch vote where the Cabinet had to decide what direction to go in.
And they let her do it. As we've just heard, Davis was apparently sidelined from day one. Indeed, it was a running joke on here about how many times it was leaked that he was thinking of resigning. In his letter he detailed longstanding concerns.
It might have helped if he'd spent more than four hours in actual negotiations with the EU, what with him being Her Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union and all. What the actual F was he doing all that time he was Brexit Secretary?
Why bother when the PM was telling EU negotiators to listen to remainer Robbins? Davis is a dick and he should have either reigned the minute he was undercut or not taken the job under those conditions, it doesn't change the fact that the remainer PM has put a completely unaccountable remainer civil servant in charge and he's complete fucked it up.
Davis is a dick, Boris is a joke, Gove has allowed himself to be sidelined, Fox is just the PM's drinking buddy... Where are the worthwhile Leave leaders who should be delivering the sunlit uplands?
Gove allowed himself to be sidelined? To be fair to him he sacrificed his own career to prevent Boris from running. He did the nation a favour and yet May saw fit to get rid of him because of a previous feud where Gove forced the Home Office to police extremists in the education sector against May's wishes. Further, the issue is in the civil service, we should have purged all you remainers from day one, no chance of someone like remainer Robbins undermining the national interest to keep us in the EU at any cost.
Now I see your true colours: "we should have purged all you remainers"
So, would that be a check on how civil servants voted (?), or maybe they'd have to sign an affadavit that they voted Leave, with the refusniks sacked?
Strange how the competent people all seem to be Remainers isn't it What a coincidence.
you mean the people who called the referendum, did no planning for the outcome and then lost it are competent ?
I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Smithson. It's certainly credible, but there has been much crying wolf over May's departure.
Mr Dancer:
I am really pi**ed off with you; you have really gone too far.
Yesterday Ii posted I was in Wisbech, and you asked "Where is that?"
I cannot believe an Englishman, and even a Yorkshireman, would not know about Cambridgeshire's Crown. A place that is truly a jewel: from the riverfront Georgian houses so gorgeous that they have to be hidden behind a floodwall, or the flower baskets on the Freedom Bridge guarding views over the estuarine mudflats.
In fact, Wisbech is such an utterly splendid place that I even believe that SeanT refuses to go there, for fear it will spoil his writings about Venice, Rome, or the Cote d'Azur - which will all pale into insignificance when compared to the BP garage by the Horsefair bus station.
I expect you immediately to seek penance by visiting Wisbech, and also those other excellent English places: Scunthorpe, Hull, Luton and Bedford.
The town at the centre of Waterland by Graham Swift is based on Wisbech.
A book that is remarkably more cheery than the place itself ...
Actually, Wisbech isn't all bad; there are some nice parts. But it seems to suffer slightly from being between everywhere: it's in Cambridgeshire, but could also be in Lincolnshire or Norfolk. And some of the buildings facing the river are exquisite IMO - although views of them are somewhat ruined by the floodwalls.
Still, I enjoyed the stroll, although the heat was a bit much.
#jc9 - that is the answer. The ends justify etc etc.
Is that the reason you use to justify to yourself the Conservatives doing the same thing?
Or do you believe stuff like Anne Marie Morris comment, or the councillor who likes jokes about brown people being like dogs is actually okay so it is different?
I'm bemused that someone who is so concerned with sniffing out Islamaphobia in the Conservative Party is utterly blind to anti-Semitism within his own party. Something that not only many people within that party has said exists, but even your own leader.
The correct answer - especially for anyone claiming to be anti-racist - is to condemn it wherever it occurs, regardless of whether you are favourable or not to the party it is in.
Something that is sadly beyond you - because you are not anti-racist: you are just blindly pro the hard-left.
The post I responded to said '#jc9 - that is the answer. The ends justify etc etc.' in response to a post that asked why Labour were quietly reinstating people suspended for anti-Semitism.
So my post asked rottenborough if that was the reason he justified voting for the conservatives when they had also quietly reinstated people suspended for racism.
As if you are going to argue that makes a political party untouchable then you can't really vote for a party doing exactly the same thing.
Best thing to do is click the previous quotes thing to get a flavour of the conversation rather than making incorrect assumptions about what it is about.
I was not referring to that individual post; just the weight of your posts that downplay or deny the issues with anti-Semitism within your party and with your leader.
You point at problems within the Conservative Party, yet downplay those within your own branch of your party and even the wider party. I really hope you don't class yourself as an anti-racist ...
Okay aside from me and the left being bad and evil and you and the right being good and righteous you do agree with the post you were replying to then that it would be hypocritical to class one party as untouchable for reinstating those suspended for racism whilst voting for another doing the same thing I assume...
We'll just let the fact that as soon as some Conservative racism was brought up, without any moral judgement beyond they are doing what Labour has done, you quickly changed the subject slide, coincidence I am sure, an ardent anti-racist like yourself...
'The correct answer - especially for anyone claiming to be anti-racist - is to condemn it wherever it occurs, regardless of whether you are favourable or not to the party it is in. '
Which applies to all parties... apart obviously from overtly racist ones. Just because someone shares some of the same views doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything they say, or think you have to keep quiet when they say or do something you find unpleasant.
Exactly, and there probably shouldn't be any hypocrisy about claiming one party is beyond voting for when they reinstate people suspended for racism when the other party does it as well.
Outside of partisan bickering pretending only one party has done anything wrong is pointless.
Well at least with the Tories and Labour. Maybe the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP can actually preach at everyone else.
Edit: Preach in regards to reinstating people suspended for racism, I'm sure they have done plenty wrong beside that.
*All* parties will have people with such views - it's a consequence of trying to be a broad church. Heck, I bet even the Greens will have people who eye Jews or Muslims with suspicion.
So the problems are:
1) Thoroughly vetting candidates to ensure that they're clean historically: this is something that is difficult to do, although the Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems could do a heck of a lot better - witness the Conservatives having to suspend a young candidate here in Cambridgeshire a couple of days before the locals when past anti-Semitic comments (and others about HIV) came to light.
2) When someone says something, act. This doesn't have to be a direct suspension; for small offences it can be a swift, short proper apology and detailed actions on how to ensure it will not happen again. But it is important for any investigation to be swift, open and fair, and also recorded, so patterns of behaviour can be noted. That's where Labour's utterly failing: for instance with Livingstone. They've been taking the p*ss for years over anti-Semitism, and that lack of action has come back to haunt them.
(On the latter point, similar to Lord Rennard and the Lib Dems. And yes, the Conservatives may be heading that way as well, especially if UKIPpers come back en mass.)
I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Smithson. It's certainly credible, but there has been much crying wolf over May's departure.
Mr Dancer:
I am really pi**ed off with you; you have really gone too far.
Yesterday Ii posted I was in Wisbech, and you asked "Where is that?"
I cannot believe an Englishman, and even a Yorkshireman, would not know about Cambridgeshire's Crown. A place that is truly a jewel: from the riverfront Georgian houses so gorgeous that they have to be hidden behind a floodwall, or the flower baskets on the Freedom Bridge guarding views over the estuarine mudflats.
In fact, Wisbech is such an utterly splendid place that I even believe that SeanT refuses to go there, for fear it will spoil his writings about Venice, Rome, or the Cote d'Azur - which will all pale into insignificance when compared to the BP garage by the Horsefair bus station.
I expect you immediately to seek penance by visiting Wisbech, and also those other excellent English places: Scunthorpe, Hull, Luton and Bedford.
The River Walk in Bedford on a sunny day is a very pleasant place to be.
'The correct answer - especially for anyone claiming to be anti-racist - is to condemn it wherever it occurs, regardless of whether you are favourable or not to the party it is in. '
Which applies to all parties... apart obviously from overtly racist ones. Just because someone shares some of the same views doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything they say, or think you have to keep quiet when they say or do something you find unpleasant.
Exactly, and there probably shouldn't be any hypocrisy about claiming one party is beyond voting for when they reinstate people suspended for racism when the other party does it as well.
Outside of partisan bickering pretending only one party has done anything wrong is pointless.
Well at least with the Tories and Labour. Maybe the Lib Dems, Greens and SNP can actually preach at everyone else.
Edit: Preach in regards to reinstating people suspended for racism, I'm sure they have done plenty wrong beside that.
*All* parties will have people with such views - it's a consequence of trying to be a broad church. Heck, I bet even the Greens will have people who eye Jews or Muslims with suspicion.
So the problems are:
1) Thoroughly vetting candidates to ensure that they're clean historically: this is something that is difficult to do, although the Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems could do a heck of a lot better - witness the Conservatives having to suspend a young candidate here in Cambridgeshire a couple of days before the locals when past anti-Semitic comments (and others about HIV) came to light.
2) When someone says something, act. This doesn't have to be a direct suspension; for small offences it can be a swift, short proper apology and detailed actions on how to ensure it will not happen again. But it is important for any investigation to be swift, open and fair, and also recorded, so patterns of behaviour can be noted. That's where Labour's utterly failing: for instance with Livingstone. They've been taking the p*ss for years over anti-Semitism, and that lack of action has come back to haunt them.
(On the latter point, similar to Lord Rennard and the Lib Dems. And yes, the Conservatives may be heading that way as well, especially if UKIPpers come back en mass.)
In regards to 2) That is exactly the point, Conservatives have been doing much the same.
Note: This isn't saying Labour can do bad things because the Conservatives do them as well. I would like Labour to do the right thing regardless, it is also electorally beneficial so even from a partisan point of view.
Okay aside from me and the left being bad and evil and you and the right being good and righteous you do agree with the post you were replying to then that it would be hypocritical to class one party as untouchable for reinstating those suspended for racism whilst voting for another doing the same thing I assume...
We'll just let the fact that as soon as some Conservative racism was brought up, without any moral judgement beyond they are doing what Labour has done, you quickly changed the subject slide, coincidence I am sure, an ardent anti-racist like yourself...
I am not a Conservative or UKIPper; I'd probably associate most closely with the Lib Dems atm. I'm politically interested (obviously), but haven't joined a party: one of the reasons is that there is 'good' and 'evil' (IMV) in all the parties, and I find it hard to join a party when I disagree with it on major points. Others thankfully differ on that.
I might suggest you read the post I've just said: reinstating someone might be acceptable (e.g. for minor offences), as long as there is a proper apology, acknowledgement of wrongdoing and actions to try and prevent it happening again. Labour isn't exactly trusted about this, and I bet the other major parties aren't much better, especially if the 'sinner' is well-connected.
As for your last paragraph: you are being silly. I might suggest you read my posts on these topics ...
I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Smithson. It's certainly credible, but there has been much crying wolf over May's departure.
Mr Dancer:
I am really pi**ed off with you; you have really gone too far.
Yesterday Ii posted I was in Wisbech, and you asked "Where is that?"
I cannot believe an Englishman, and even a Yorkshireman, would not know about Cambridgeshire's Crown. A place that is truly a jewel: from the riverfront Georgian houses so gorgeous that they have to be hidden behind a floodwall, or the flower baskets on the Freedom Bridge guarding views over the estuarine mudflats.
In fact, Wisbech is such an utterly splendid place that I even believe that SeanT refuses to go there, for fear it will spoil his writings about Venice, Rome, or the Cote d'Azur - which will all pale into insignificance when compared to the BP garage by the Horsefair bus station.
I expect you immediately to seek penance by visiting Wisbech, and also those other excellent English places: Scunthorpe, Hull, Luton and Bedford.
The town at the centre of Waterland by Graham Swift is based on Wisbech.
A book that is remarkably more cheery than the place itself ...
Actually, Wisbech isn't all bad; there are some nice parts. But it seems to suffer slightly from being between everywhere: it's in Cambridgeshire, but could also be in Lincolnshire or Norfolk. And some of the buildings facing the river are exquisite IMO - although views of them are somewhat ruined by the floodwalls.
Still, I enjoyed the stroll, although the heat was a bit much.
Do they still have the fast donkey link to Kings Lynn?
Okay aside from me and the left being bad and evil and you and the right being good and righteous you do agree with the post you were replying to then that it would be hypocritical to class one party as untouchable for reinstating those suspended for racism whilst voting for another doing the same thing I assume...
We'll just let the fact that as soon as some Conservative racism was brought up, without any moral judgement beyond they are doing what Labour has done, you quickly changed the subject slide, coincidence I am sure, an ardent anti-racist like yourself...
I am not a Conservative or UKIPper; I'd probably associate most closely with the Lib Dems atm. I'm politically interested (obviously), but haven't joined a party: one of the reasons is that there is 'good' and 'evil' (IMV) in all the parties, and I find it hard to join a party when I disagree with it on major points. Others thankfully differ on that.
I might suggest you read the post I've just said: reinstating someone might be acceptable (e.g. for minor offences), as long as there is a proper apology, acknowledgement of wrongdoing and actions to try and prevent it happening again. Labour isn't exactly trusted about this, and I bet the other major parties aren't much better, especially if the 'sinner' is well-connected.
As for your last paragraph: you are being silly. I might suggest you read my posts on these topics ...
You'll forgive my cynicism but I see a lot of the Labour racist incident stuff brought up here and I rarely see you chiding any of those people doubting their sincerity but the rare time Conservative racism is brought up...
Being generous it is possibly to do with me personally bringing it up rather than it being about the Tories but I don't see quite the same response or level of complaint to similar incidents.
Also did you vote Conservative? I didn't have you down as particularly right wing also noted you don't like the hard Brexiteers but I was under the impression you had.
Edit: Obviously being politically close to the Lib Dems and living in an area where voting for them could actually help them win a seat aren't necessarily the same thing. So can easily be a least worst option.
I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Smithson. It's certainly credible, but there has been much crying wolf over May's departure.
Mr Dancer:
I am really pi**ed off with you; you have really gone too far.
Yesterday Ii posted I was in Wisbech, and you asked "Where is that?"
I cannot believe an Englishman, and even a Yorkshireman, would not know about Cambridgeshire's Crown. A place that is truly a jewel: from the riverfront Georgian houses so gorgeous that they have to be hidden behind a floodwall, or the flower baskets on the Freedom Bridge guarding views over the estuarine mudflats.
In fact, Wisbech is such an utterly splendid place that I even believe that SeanT refuses to go there, for fear it will spoil his writings about Venice, Rome, or the Cote d'Azur - which will all pale into insignificance when compared to the BP garage by the Horsefair bus station.
I expect you immediately to seek penance by visiting Wisbech, and also those other excellent English places: Scunthorpe, Hull, Luton and Bedford.
The River Walk in Bedford on a sunny day is a very pleasant place to be.
At times, yes. But on a minor point it's annoying it has a significant trail running through it - the Ouse Valley Way - and it has f'all waymarkers - and before anyone says, it's not as easy as just following the river ...
My main point about it is the centre can be a bit of a dump - e.g. the walk between railway and bus stations. Which is a shame, as it is surrounded by lovely villages.
On a similar point: a few weeks back I walked into Northampton along the Nene from the west. Under the old railway bridge to Cotton were two shopping trolley, one containing two plastic boxes for needle sharps. Not a good introduction to the city - although made up for the walk east along the river, which is lovely.
F1: having another glance at the Red Bull 2nd Chap market. Odds unchanged but, as a reminder, there are two clear favourites with Gasly 1.57 and Sainz 2.62.
Hartley is third favourite at 13. That makes no sense to me as Toro Rosso tried to replace him this season (during the season), so why would he be promoted? The Red Bull seat, even as second fiddle, is one that's very attractive.
Kubica is 17. It'd be a great story for him to return but he was testing and didn't make it in this year. Plus, he's an unknown quantity right now, whereas there are plenty of other drivers who would jump at the chance for a top seat.
Kvyat's 21. See Hartley, and add that he isn't driving in F1 any more.
Wehrlein is 34. Left Sauber last year, and appears to have been a little carried away with his own hype (unlike Leclerc).
That leaves, besides the two favourites, Raikkonen at 29 and Alonso at 51 (34 and 61 with boost, respectively). Raikkonen can be an ideal wingman for Verstappen, but the rumour is that with the change in Ferrari's leadership they're leaning towards retaining the Finn and postponing Leclerc's promotion. If that's not the case, Raikkonen could be a good selection.
Alonso would be more disruptive, but also faster. The two elder drivers are probably only in the sport for a couple of seasons, though, which may suit Red Bull.
Anyway, I think Gasly or Sainz is pretty likely but perhaps not enough to warrant their odds being so short. Mr. B's [think it was him, apologies if not] reasoning yesterday that if it were Sainz, out of his Renault seat next year, he would've been announced pretty much immediately was something that made sense to me. But that also raises a question mark over Gasly, because if there are only two chaps to pick from and one isn't chosen, that means Gasly should've been announced pronto (although there may be some I-dotting and T-crossing, so it's not 100%).
If one of the favourites doesn't get the gig, I think Raikkonen/Alonso are in with a shot.
You'll forgive my cynicism but I see a lot of the Labour racist incident stuff brought up here and I rarely see you chiding any of those people doubting their sincerity but the rare time Conservative racism is brought up...
Being generous it is possibly to do with me personally bringing it up rather than it being about the Tories but I don't see quite the same response or level of complaint to similar incidents.
Also did you vote Conservative? I didn't have you down as particularly right wing also noted you don't like the hard Brexiteers but I was under the impression you had.
Edit: Obviously being politically close to the Lib Dems and living in an area where voting for them could actually help them win a seat aren't necessarily the same thing. So can easily be a least worst option.
Look, you have spent the last few weeks denying story after story on Corbyn and anti-Semitism. It's never anti-Semitism, things are being taken out of context, it doesn't mean what you think it means, etc. If you're giving them a rather large benefit of the doubt, fair enough. But if you don't do similar for the Conservatives wrt Islamaphobia, then you're just being a partisan ass.
It's sad I need to say this again: all parties have problems with things like sexism, racism etc. But Labour's reaction to their anti-Semitism problem has been hideous, and is actually stoking anti-Semitism. So if you think I'm giving you a hard time, that's why: your denials give cover to anti-Semites.
It's unlikely for Lib Dems to get an MP here, but it should be noted that at the locals our local Conservative administration was decimated and replaced by a Lib Dem one. Our MP is also rather independently-minded.
For the record, in the lat few years I've voted Conservative, Labour, Green, Independent and Lib Dem. The only party I've not voted for here in England is UKIP.
I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Smithson. It's certainly credible, but there has been much crying wolf over May's departure.
Mr Dancer:
I am really pi**ed off with you; you have really gone too far.
Yesterday Ii posted I was in Wisbech, and you asked "Where is that?"
I cannot believe an Englishman, and even a Yorkshireman, would not know about Cambridgeshire's Crown. A place that is truly a jewel: from the riverfront Georgian houses so gorgeous that they have to be hidden behind a floodwall, or the flower baskets on the Freedom Bridge guarding views over the estuarine mudflats.
In fact, Wisbech is such an utterly splendid place that I even believe that SeanT refuses to go there, for fear it will spoil his writings about Venice, Rome, or the Cote d'Azur - which will all pale into insignificance when compared to the BP garage by the Horsefair bus station.
I expect you immediately to seek penance by visiting Wisbech, and also those other excellent English places: Scunthorpe, Hull, Luton and Bedford.
The town at the centre of Waterland by Graham Swift is based on Wisbech.
A book that is remarkably more cheery than the place itself ...
Actually, Wisbech isn't all bad; there are some nice parts. But it seems to suffer slightly from being between everywhere: it's in Cambridgeshire, but could also be in Lincolnshire or Norfolk. And some of the buildings facing the river are exquisite IMO - although views of them are somewhat ruined by the floodwalls.
Still, I enjoyed the stroll, although the heat was a bit much.
Do they still have the fast donkey link to Kings Lynn?
??? That sounds interesting, especially as I had to get a bus back from King's Lynn to Wisbech yesterday - although the coach was a little more pleasant than a donkey.
What's the story?
Incidentally, there was a young man outside King's Lynn bus station who was totally off his head on drugs, and repeatedly walked into a wall whilst trying to get in through a doorway. Tragic.
I think it's very unhealthy to divide people into "Leavers" and "Remainers". Theresa May, for all her faults, is committed to honouring the referendum result. I would add that the same is true of almost all cabinet ministers, irrespective of which way they campaigned. Now, it's true that former Remainers probably want a closer relationship than most Leavers. But we need to agree the Brexit that is supported by the greatest proportion of the country, irrespective of how they voted, not what satisfies 51% of the 52%.
And I think that likely means a Brexit that is probably not a million miles away from the Chequers proposal.
Now, is some variant of Chequers the best the UK could have hoped for two years ago? No. And there have been numerous mistakes. Many of the leading Leave figures were far too sanguine about "the easiest FTA in history" with the EU, and we have done a terrible job with current EU FTA countries (thanks Liam!).
And our threat to leave with No Deal looks hollow when we haven't done a single bit of preparation, besides repeating tired catch phrases.
Good balanced post from, IIRC, someone who voted leave. Voice of reason RCS, nice one.
I'm inclined to agree with Mr. Smithson. It's certainly credible, but there has been much crying wolf over May's departure.
Mr Dancer:
I am really pi**ed off with you; you have really gone too far.
Yesterday Ii posted I was in Wisbech, and you asked "Where is that?"
I cannot believe an Englishman, and even a Yorkshireman, would not know about Cambridgeshire's Crown. A place that is truly a jewel: from the riverfront Georgian houses so gorgeous that they have to be hidden behind a floodwall, or the flower baskets on the Freedom Bridge guarding views over the estuarine mudflats.
In fact, Wisbech is such an utterly splendid place that I even believe that SeanT refuses to go there, for fear it will spoil his writings about Venice, Rome, or the Cote d'Azur - which will all pale into insignificance when compared to the BP garage by the Horsefair bus station.
I expect you immediately to seek penance by visiting Wisbech, and also those other excellent English places: Scunthorpe, Hull, Luton and Bedford.
The town at the centre of Waterland by Graham Swift is based on Wisbech.
A book that is remarkably more cheery than the place itself ...
Actually, Wisbech isn't all bad; there are some nice parts. But it seems to suffer slightly from being between everywhere: it's in Cambridgeshire, but could also be in Lincolnshire or Norfolk. And some of the buildings facing the river are exquisite IMO - although views of them are somewhat ruined by the floodwalls.
Still, I enjoyed the stroll, although the heat was a bit much.
Do they still have the fast donkey link to Kings Lynn?
??? That sounds interesting, especially as I had to get a bus back from King's Lynn to Wisbech yesterday - although the coach was a little more pleasant than a donkey.
What's the story?
Incidentally, there was a young man outside King's Lynn bus station who was totally off his head on drugs, and repeatedly walked into a wall whilst trying to get in through a doorway. Tragic.
I was out in Leicester last night. Lots of Spice Zombies sleeping rough around the railway station. Leicester on a Friday night is often a bit gritty, but I agree this is just tragic. What wasted lives.
Another Brexit thread with little illumination other than interesting comments by @Richard_Nabavi.
I disagree with him though. My critique of May is not that she is a remainer, not that she has been trying to sabotage Leave, not that she has put Robins in charge but that she has not done her job as PM.
She was left with a hell of a mess to clean up. Cameron and Osborne had refused to do any planning for a Leave vote. (Ironically if they had the remain campaign might just have been a little more focussed and credible). She had a deeply divided country and a deeply divided party, albeit the majority were for leave. She committed herself to deliver the outcome of the referendum. I do not doubt that she was sincere in that.
But, having made that commitment she failed to grab the bull by the horns. She hid behind banalities such as Brexit means Brexit. She did not seek to deliver a consensus as to what we actually wanted either in the country, her party or her Cabinet. She served the Article 50 notice without forging that consensus. We went into the negotiations without knowing what we wanted.
She of course tried to get a larger majority, possibly so she could force a path forwards. She lost what majority she had. She then allowed further drift with No 10 and DD working in different directions. Finally, at Chequers, she seeks to bounce her Cabinet into a compromise which is dead on arrival with the EU and had not been back channelled towards some form of consensus.
So I have some sympathy. It was a tough situation. But she has screwed it up royally and the country will have to pay the price.
You'll forgive my cynicism but I see a lot of the Labour racist incident stuff brought up here and I rarely see you chiding any of those people doubting their sincerity but the rare time Conservative racism is brought up...
Being generous it is possibly to do with me personally bringing it up rather than it being about the Tories but I don't see quite the same response or level of complaint to similar incidents.
Also did you vote Conservative? I didn't have you down as particularly right wing also noted you don't like the hard Brexiteers but I was under the impression you had.
Edit: Obviously being politically close to the Lib Dems and living in an area where voting for them could actually help them win a seat aren't necessarily the same thing. So can easily be a least worst option.
Look, you have spent the last few weeks denying story after story on Corbyn and anti-Semitism. It's never anti-Semitism, things are being taken out of context, it doesn't mean what you think it means, etc. If you're giving them a rather large benefit of the doubt, fair enough. But if you don't do similar for the Conservatives wrt Islamaphobia, then you're just being a partisan ass.
It's sad I need to say this again: all parties have problems with things like sexism, racism etc. But Labour's reaction to their anti-Semitism problem has been hideous, and is actually stoking anti-Semitism. So if you think I'm giving you a hard time, that's why: your denials give cover to anti-Semites.
It's unlikely for Lib Dems to get an MP here, but it should be noted that at the locals our local Conservative administration was decimated and replaced by a Lib Dem one. Our MP is also rather independently-minded.
For the record, in the lat few years I've voted Conservative, Labour, Green, Independent and Lib Dem. The only party I've not voted for here in England is UKIP.
You have any proof of that pretty outrageous claim?
That is statistical data indicating some kind of spike because of Corbyn (also with Brexit taken into account)
Also taking into account the various levels of anti semitism in each parties voters, including the decreased levels in Labour since Corbyn. Although in fairness whilst that is a useful statistical argument I do think that is partially to do with older people being more anti semitic so with the rearrangement at the last general election Labour became a bit less racist by losing older people and gaining younger people.
We have a problem with racism in general concentrating on only some for political benefit will not help with racism.
I don't deny anti semitism. Saying some in the Jewish community are Trump supporters is not anti semitic, no matter how much political advantage there is in saying so it doesn't make it true.
Another Brexit thread with little illumination other than interesting comments by @Richard_Nabavi.
I disagree with him though. My critique of May is not that she is a remainer, not that she has been trying to sabotage Leave, not that she has put Robins in charge but that she has not done her job as PM.
She was left with a hell of a mess to clean up. Cameron and Osborne had refused to do any planning for a Leave vote. (Ironically if they had the remain campaign might just have been a little more focussed and credible). She had a deeply divided country and a deeply divided party, albeit the majority were for leave. She committed herself to deliver the outcome of the referendum. I do not doubt that she was sincere in that.
But, having made that commitment she failed to grab the bull by the horns. She hid behind banalities such as Brexit means Brexit. She did not seek to deliver a consensus as to what we actually wanted either in the country, her party or her Cabinet. She served the Article 50 notice without forging that consensus. We went into the negotiations without knowing what we wanted.
She of course tried to get a larger majority, possibly so she could force a path forwards. She lost what majority she had. She then allowed further drift with No 10 and DD working in different directions. Finally, at Chequers, she seeks to bounce her Cabinet into a compromise which is dead on arrival with the EU and had not been back channelled towards some form of consensus.
So I have some sympathy. It was a tough situation. But she has screwed it up royally and the country will have to pay the price.
May is rather baffling.
No leadership skills, no personal skills, no big ideas and doesn't even seem to be personally ambitious.
So why did she chose a career in politics and how did she then progress so far ?
You have any proof of that pretty outrageous claim?
That is statistical data indicating some kind of spike because of Corbyn (also with Brexit taken into account)
Also taking into account the various levels of anti semitism in each parties voters, including the decreased levels in Labour since Corbyn. Although in fairness whilst that is a useful statistical argument I do think that is partially to do with older people being more anti semitic so with the rearrangement at the last general election Labour became a bit less racist by losing older people and gaining younger people.
We have a problem with racism in general concentrating on only some for political benefit will not help with racism.
I don't deny anti semitism. Saying some in the Jewish community are Trump supporters is not anti semitic, no matter how much political advantage there is in saying so it doesn't make it true.
Look at the comments under articles about it, or from what has been said by some Labour people in response.
"We have a problem with racism in general concentrating on only some for political benefit will not help with racism."
LOL. That is classic - do you actually believe that? Essentially you are saying you shouldn't tackle one type of racism because there is so much other racism about.
For the record, I don't get any 'political advantage' from saying what I say. And I say that you are ignoring and downplaying anti-Semitism - at least when it's from Corbyn and his followers.
Another Brexit thread with little illumination other than interesting comments by @Richard_Nabavi.
I disagree with him though. My critique of May is not that she is a remainer, not that she has been trying to sabotage Leave, not that she has put Robins in charge but that she has not done her job as PM.
She was left with a hell of a mess to clean up. Cameron and Osborne had refused to do any planning for a Leave vote. (Ironically if they had the remain campaign might just have been a little more focussed and credible). She had a deeply divided country and a deeply divided party, albeit the majority were for leave. She committed herself to deliver the outcome of the referendum. I do not doubt that she was sincere in that.
But, having made that commitment she failed to grab the bull by the horns. She hid behind banalities such as Brexit means Brexit. She did not seek to deliver a consensus as to what we actually wanted either in the country, her party or her Cabinet. She served the Article 50 notice without forging that consensus. We went into the negotiations without knowing what we wanted.
She of course tried to get a larger majority, possibly so she could force a path forwards. She lost what majority she had. She then allowed further drift with No 10 and DD working in different directions. Finally, at Chequers, she seeks to bounce her Cabinet into a compromise which is dead on arrival with the EU and had not been back channelled towards some form of consensus.
So I have some sympathy. It was a tough situation. But she has screwed it up royally and the country will have to pay the price.
May is rather baffling.
No leadership skills, no personal skills, no big ideas and doesn't even seem to be personally ambitious.
So why did she chose a career in politics and how did she then progress so far ?
The Peter Principle effect in full and glorious technicolor .. .
Comments
Mr Johnson achieves the unlikely double of being both irrepressible and unsustainable. He is destined to discover that he never was, after all, toying with destiny: destiny was toying with him. Like Sisyphus he pushes his rock up the mountain. And still it rolls down again.
Thus it was we opened newspapers this week to read that a survey by the ConservativeHome website charts Boris’s triumphant return to the bosom and affections of Tory activists. After quitting the cabinet and disowning Theresa May’s Brexit plans, he’s back in the top slot of contenders for the Tory crown. Obviously, really. Brexiteers need a bus stop to wait at, and Johnson, having now purged himself of association with any actual destination, has regained the essential qualification: vacuity.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/boris-would-be-a-fool-to-think-he-s-on-top-d6n76r8xf
You point at problems within the Conservative Party, yet downplay those within your own branch of your party and even the wider party. I really hope you don't class yourself as an anti-racist ...
Mr. P, Boris wasn't fit to be Foreign Secretary. He certainly isn't fit to be PM.
ROFL
Actually, Wisbech isn't all bad; there are some nice parts. But it seems to suffer slightly from being between everywhere: it's in Cambridgeshire, but could also be in Lincolnshire or Norfolk. And some of the buildings facing the river are exquisite IMO - although views of them are somewhat ruined by the floodwalls.
Still, I enjoyed the stroll, although the heat was a bit much.
We'll just let the fact that as soon as some Conservative racism was brought up, without any moral judgement beyond they are doing what Labour has done, you quickly changed the subject slide, coincidence I am sure, an ardent anti-racist like yourself...
So the problems are:
1) Thoroughly vetting candidates to ensure that they're clean historically: this is something that is difficult to do, although the Conservatives, Labour and the Lib Dems could do a heck of a lot better - witness the Conservatives having to suspend a young candidate here in Cambridgeshire a couple of days before the locals when past anti-Semitic comments (and others about HIV) came to light.
2) When someone says something, act. This doesn't have to be a direct suspension; for small offences it can be a swift, short proper apology and detailed actions on how to ensure it will not happen again. But it is important for any investigation to be swift, open and fair, and also recorded, so patterns of behaviour can be noted. That's where Labour's utterly failing: for instance with Livingstone. They've been taking the p*ss for years over anti-Semitism, and that lack of action has come back to haunt them.
(On the latter point, similar to Lord Rennard and the Lib Dems. And yes, the Conservatives may be heading that way as well, especially if UKIPpers come back en mass.)
Note: This isn't saying Labour can do bad things because the Conservatives do them as well. I would like Labour to do the right thing regardless, it is also electorally beneficial so even from a partisan point of view.
I might suggest you read the post I've just said: reinstating someone might be acceptable (e.g. for minor offences), as long as there is a proper apology, acknowledgement of wrongdoing and actions to try and prevent it happening again. Labour isn't exactly trusted about this, and I bet the other major parties aren't much better, especially if the 'sinner' is well-connected.
As for your last paragraph: you are being silly. I might suggest you read my posts on these topics ...
Being generous it is possibly to do with me personally bringing it up rather than it being about the Tories but I don't see quite the same response or level of complaint to similar incidents.
Also did you vote Conservative? I didn't have you down as particularly right wing also noted you don't like the hard Brexiteers but I was under the impression you had.
Edit: Obviously being politically close to the Lib Dems and living in an area where voting for them could actually help them win a seat aren't necessarily the same thing. So can easily be a least worst option.
My main point about it is the centre can be a bit of a dump - e.g. the walk between railway and bus stations. Which is a shame, as it is surrounded by lovely villages.
On a similar point: a few weeks back I walked into Northampton along the Nene from the west. Under the old railway bridge to Cotton were two shopping trolley, one containing two plastic boxes for needle sharps. Not a good introduction to the city - although made up for the walk east along the river, which is lovely.
Hartley is third favourite at 13. That makes no sense to me as Toro Rosso tried to replace him this season (during the season), so why would he be promoted? The Red Bull seat, even as second fiddle, is one that's very attractive.
Kubica is 17. It'd be a great story for him to return but he was testing and didn't make it in this year. Plus, he's an unknown quantity right now, whereas there are plenty of other drivers who would jump at the chance for a top seat.
Kvyat's 21. See Hartley, and add that he isn't driving in F1 any more.
Wehrlein is 34. Left Sauber last year, and appears to have been a little carried away with his own hype (unlike Leclerc).
That leaves, besides the two favourites, Raikkonen at 29 and Alonso at 51 (34 and 61 with boost, respectively). Raikkonen can be an ideal wingman for Verstappen, but the rumour is that with the change in Ferrari's leadership they're leaning towards retaining the Finn and postponing Leclerc's promotion. If that's not the case, Raikkonen could be a good selection.
Alonso would be more disruptive, but also faster. The two elder drivers are probably only in the sport for a couple of seasons, though, which may suit Red Bull.
Anyway, I think Gasly or Sainz is pretty likely but perhaps not enough to warrant their odds being so short. Mr. B's [think it was him, apologies if not] reasoning yesterday that if it were Sainz, out of his Renault seat next year, he would've been announced pretty much immediately was something that made sense to me. But that also raises a question mark over Gasly, because if there are only two chaps to pick from and one isn't chosen, that means Gasly should've been announced pronto (although there may be some I-dotting and T-crossing, so it's not 100%).
If one of the favourites doesn't get the gig, I think Raikkonen/Alonso are in with a shot.
It's sad I need to say this again: all parties have problems with things like sexism, racism etc. But Labour's reaction to their anti-Semitism problem has been hideous, and is actually stoking anti-Semitism. So if you think I'm giving you a hard time, that's why: your denials give cover to anti-Semites.
It's unlikely for Lib Dems to get an MP here, but it should be noted that at the locals our local Conservative administration was decimated and replaced by a Lib Dem one. Our MP is also rather independently-minded.
For the record, in the lat few years I've voted Conservative, Labour, Green, Independent and Lib Dem. The only party I've not voted for here in England is UKIP.
What's the story?
Incidentally, there was a young man outside King's Lynn bus station who was totally off his head on drugs, and repeatedly walked into a wall whilst trying to get in through a doorway. Tragic.
I disagree with him though. My critique of May is not that she is a remainer, not that she has been trying to sabotage Leave, not that she has put Robins in charge but that she has not done her job as PM.
She was left with a hell of a mess to clean up. Cameron and Osborne had refused to do any planning for a Leave vote. (Ironically if they had the remain campaign might just have been a little more focussed and credible). She had a deeply divided country and a deeply divided party, albeit the majority were for leave. She committed herself to deliver the outcome of the referendum. I do not doubt that she was sincere in that.
But, having made that commitment she failed to grab the bull by the horns. She hid behind banalities such as Brexit means Brexit. She did not seek to deliver a consensus as to what we actually wanted either in the country, her party or her Cabinet. She served the Article 50 notice without forging that consensus. We went into the negotiations without knowing what we wanted.
She of course tried to get a larger majority, possibly so she could force a path forwards. She lost what majority she had. She then allowed further drift with No 10 and DD working in different directions. Finally, at Chequers, she seeks to bounce her Cabinet into a compromise which is dead on arrival with the EU and had not been back channelled towards some form of consensus.
So I have some sympathy. It was a tough situation. But she has screwed it up royally and the country will have to pay the price.
We're off to see Paloma Faith at Glastonbury this evening. Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Probably time to just ditch it, laugh it off and forget it ever happened. Britain needs to get on with its life.
That is statistical data indicating some kind of spike because of Corbyn (also with Brexit taken into account)
Also taking into account the various levels of anti semitism in each parties voters, including the decreased levels in Labour since Corbyn. Although in fairness whilst that is a useful statistical argument I do think that is partially to do with older people being more anti semitic so with the rearrangement at the last general election Labour became a bit less racist by losing older people and gaining younger people.
We have a problem with racism in general concentrating on only some for political benefit will not help with racism.
I don't deny anti semitism. Saying some in the Jewish community are Trump supporters is not anti semitic, no matter how much political advantage there is in saying so it doesn't make it true.
No leadership skills, no personal skills, no big ideas and doesn't even seem to be personally ambitious.
So why did she chose a career in politics and how did she then progress so far ?
"We have a problem with racism in general concentrating on only some for political benefit will not help with racism."
LOL. That is classic - do you actually believe that? Essentially you are saying you shouldn't tackle one type of racism because there is so much other racism about.
For the record, I don't get any 'political advantage' from saying what I say. And I say that you are ignoring and downplaying anti-Semitism - at least when it's from Corbyn and his followers.