Numbers of Jewish Voters. I find myself agreeing with @Jezziah, of all people on a couple of points. I think:
The numbers of Jewish voters are tiny; after all, they only constitute 0.4% of the UK population and there are only a handful of places where Jews are a sufficiently high % of the local population and the constituency is marginal for there to be any possible effect.
It is quite clear that the major elements of the Labour party dislike Zionism, but this is nothing new - the Webbs, Ramsay/Malcolm Macdonald and Ernest Bevin are earlier examples. The current Labour leadership is clearly reluctant to follow the Zionist line, hence the unwillingness to implement the examples in the IHRA guideline in full. They are perfectly entitled to do this if they so wish, and I doubt whether it would do them any electoral harm.
The man/woman in the street doesn't give a damn, and even if she/he is paying any attention at all to the issue, is more than likely just to take a dislike to those who are whining. Mr Willsman's outburst at the NEC meeting is an example of this attitude, and I suspect many share that view, but are sufficiently PC-savvy not to express it in public. If anything, the longer this issue continues to dominate the headlines, the more antisemitism is re-inforced.
On that note, I wonder whether it might be desirable for PB to stop publishing so many thread headers on this topic. It matters little to the UK, compared to the enormous impact of Brexit (or more likely BINO).
Agree it seems to be a London thing , may be unusual but I have never had any discussion for , against or about Jews in my life apart from bible stories when I was a boy.
PS looks to be just points scoring on here about who can be Jews best friends and usual jibes about lefties etc. Tory right wingers have nothing good they can say about their pathetic cretins, so have to shout "look anti-semitic squirrel" loudly and often. Can they not just go back to Brexit means Brexit
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
British, or at least English politics is a mess at the moment. At least in Wales and Scotland there are different parties who seem to be making a better fist of things, although Plaid Cymru seems to have severe problems in breaking out of the West and North-West.
About N. Ireland the less said the better, although do I detect a chink of light which might lead to a United Ireland?
There will not be a United Ireland while the DUP remains the largest party in Northern Ireland and even if the Catholic majority counties of Northern Ireland eventually agree to join the Republic of Ireland the Protestant majority counties, especially Antrim, never will.
Wales voted Leave just like England
A few years ago there was a suggestion that if there was a poll again those counties which voted to join the RoI should be allowed to do, with the remainder staying in a rump Norn. Personally I doubt that that would be possible without a population transfer, and hence impractable.
It is better than the bombong of Dublin by loyalist paramilitaries which would be inevitable if Antrim was forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against its will.
Antrim alone has a bigger population than some countries like Luxembourg for example
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
Sadly for most Leavers the Chequers Deal is Munich 1938 and she is Chamberlain.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
No you dont. You base so much on assumptions and dare I say polls. This is a negotiation. Stop believing everything you read or hear and treat it all with caution
There are no polls to be mentioned.
Barnier has made clear we only get a post Brexit transition deal if we effectively stay in the single market and customs union in all but name to deal with the Irish border issue which is what the Chequers Deal moved towards and Juncker has made clear it took Canada 7 years to get a FTA with the EU and the EU would take the same approach with the UK.
Good morning all. Brexit and anti-semitism. Oof. Thin fare for such a once-diverse site!
Regarding CETA. Because of its scope, it's a mixed agreement, which requires unanimous agreement at the national level, so it's currently provisional only. The Italians are threatening to veto it, due to concerns about PDO and PGI protections.
Making EU agreement to a FTA potentially even longer than 7 years
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
My own Alma Mater was Hackney Downs Grammar School (formerly the Grocers Company.) We didn't have a Jeremy Bentham but we did nurture Harold Pinter and Michael Caine. (Not a lot of people know that.)
When I started there in 1960 it had a policy of admitting 50% Jews, 50% Gentiles. For the most part, we neither knew nor cared who was Jewish and who was not. Anti-semitism was non-existent. It just wouldn't have been tolerated.
Due I think to their work ethic and family values, the Jewish boys tended to cluster more in the Alpha streams. In my class of 32, there were just 6 gentiles. As a result most of my closest friends were Jewish, without me particularly seeking them out or being strongly aware if it.
We weren't much into politics but it was nevertheless obvious that as a group the Jewish boys tended to be leftish and it was easy to see why this should be so. The impression that 'Jews tend to be Labour' has endured with me throughout my life.
And now I am being asked to question it. Oi vey.
Well, I'm not sure. I mistrust social media. The Jews are a very heterogeneous group. You wouldn't mistake my bacon-eating buddies from Hackney Downs with the Hasidic or Ashkenazy Jews, who my mates regularly ridiculed (Kosher Cowboys being one the more repeatable terms of derision.) Very many modern, civilized, educated Jews are staunch Conservatives. Why shouldn't they be? Many of the characteristics of happy, successful Jewish families are entirely consistent with Conservative values. So what's not to like?
Of course it would be very helpful for the Conservative Party if Labour could be tarred with the brush of anti-semitism. Thinks of the votes, my boy! It wouldn't just dissuade a few undecideds, it would even rob Labour of the votes of people like me for whom anti-Semitism and other forms of racism are anathema. I'll need some persuading however that it is endemic. All Parties have their hotheads, airheads and assholes and the current LP certainly has its share.....but an Anti-Semitic Party?
Let's not confuse anti-Semitism with anti-Israel. The former is unacceptable, the latter merely unwise. And anti-Netanyahu? Even I would maybe go along with that. Anti-Trump? Count me in.
Seems to me the Labour Party has to make it clear just exactly where it stands. It is an indictment of the current leadership that one should even feel the need to ask the question. It matters though, very much. There is a real possibility that the Conservative Party will crash and burn in a post-Brexit inferno. A Labour Government filling the political void is a probable consequence.
I don't want an Anti-Semitic Government. That would be worse than an Anti-EU one, which is saying something. Labour ought to make it clear that offers neither.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
No you dont. You base so much on assumptions and dare I say polls. This is a negotiation. Stop believing everything you read or hear and treat it all with caution
There are no polls to be mentioned.
Barnier has made clear we only get a post Brexit transition deal if we effectively stay in the single market and customs union in all but name to deal with the Irish border issue which is what the Chequers Deal moved towards and Juncker has made clear it took Canada 7 years to get a FTA with the EU and the EU would take the same approach with the UK.
Good morning all. Brexit and anti-semitism. Oof. Thin fare for such a once-diverse site!
Regarding CETA. Because of its scope, it's a mixed agreement, which requires unanimous agreement at the national level, so it's currently provisional only. The Italians are threatening to veto it, due to concerns about PDO and PGI protections.
Making EU agreement to a FTA potentially even longer than 7 years
The EU cannot offer the UK an FTA because they are dysfunctional. Not surprising they want the money up front as they can’t deliver. They have nothing to offer us - only a complete cretin would do a deal on this basis. Oh, wait....
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Thats not what leavers said. It was all going to be easy
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
No you dont. You base so much on assumptions and dare I say polls. This is a negotiation. Stop believing everything you read or hear and treat it all with caution
There are no polls to be mentioned.
Barnier has made clear we only get a post Brexit transition deal if we effectively stay in the single market and customs union in all but name to deal with the Irish border issue which is what the Chequers Deal moved towards and Juncker has made clear it took Canada 7 years to get a FTA with the EU and the EU would take the same approach with the UK.
Good morning all. Brexit and anti-semitism. Oof. Thin fare for such a once-diverse site!
Regarding CETA. Because of its scope, it's a mixed agreement, which requires unanimous agreement at the national level, so it's currently provisional only. The Italians are threatening to veto it, due to concerns about PDO and PGI protections.
Making EU agreement to a FTA potentially even longer than 7 years
The EU cannot offer the UK an FTA because they are dysfunctional. Not surprising they want the money up front as they can’t deliver. They have nothing to offer us - only a complete cretin would do a deal on this basis. Oh, wait....
On theory we could get a FTA from the EU but in practice it would take the best part of a decade
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
No you dont. You base so much on assumptions and dare I say polls. This is a negotiation. Stop believing everything you read or hear and treat it all with caution
There are no polls to be mentioned.
Barnier has made clear we only get a post Brexit transition deal if we effectively stay in the single market and customs union in all but name to deal with the Irish border issue which is what the Chequers Deal moved towards and Juncker has made clear it took Canada 7 years to get a FTA with the EU and the EU would take the same approach with the UK.
Good morning all. Brexit and anti-semitism. Oof. Thin fare for such a once-diverse site!
Regarding CETA. Because of its scope, it's a mixed agreement, which requires unanimous agreement at the national level, so it's currently provisional only. The Italians are threatening to veto it, due to concerns about PDO and PGI protections.
Making EU agreement to a FTA potentially even longer than 7 years
The EU cannot offer the UK an FTA because they are dysfunctional. Not surprising they want the money up front as they can’t deliver. They have nothing to offer us - only a complete cretin would do a deal on this basis. Oh, wait....
They cannot offer the UK an FTA because it would mean a hard border in Ireland. They can offer GB an FTA, and have done so.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Thats not what leavers said. It was all going to be easy
I voted Remain and never said it was easy but I also respect the Leave vote and have never supported the UK being a part of the Eurozone and a Federal EU
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
The EU cannot offer the UK an FTA because they are dysfunctional. Not surprising they want the money up front as they can’t deliver. They have nothing to offer us - only a complete cretin would do a deal on this basis. Oh, wait....
They cannot offer the UK an FTA because it would mean a hard border in Ireland. They can offer GB an FTA, and have done so.
Nonsense - the only other person stupid enough to believe that is May. The point is that the EU probably aren’t even capable of ratifying any FTA with us. They can’t even get CETA through. So of course we should refuse to pay until they deliver. Only a total fool would pay upfront.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
I looked up the word negotiation. I cannot see any connection between this word and whatever May is doing.
Dreadfully cynical, self-serving and nonsense article from one of this site's premium extreme right-wing nutcases (from a choice of many!). I know Mike has a psychotic blind-spot of his own when it comes to Corbyn but I'm very surprised this has made it above the line when it would be shameful enough below it.
Firstly, it is now bordering on anti-semitism to have exaggerated Labour's (minute - no larger than society at large) problem with anti-semitism and compare it with the Nazis (thereby trasducing the horror of those who actually went through the Holocaust), and those using it as a political weapon will be judged dreadfully by history.
The series of examples you gave were either minor activists or councillors who were instantly suspended as soon as any dodgy comments to light, people for whom there is no evidence they are even in the Labour Party (the infamous facebook message), or hover around extremely contentious issues such the distinction between criticism of Israel and antisemitism.
Many of these things happened before Corbyn was even leader. No party can be expected to be responsible for the handful of nutters you'll find amongst any organisation whose membership runs into the hundreds of thousands, it can only be expected to deal with them if bad behaviour comes to light.
Which it has, in the most egregious of the above cases.
What has to be resisted tooth and nail are any attempts to smother criticism of Israel, when every year its policies and behaviour are becoming more and more racist, violent and extreme - which is what the ridiculously overblown and co-ordinated attacks from those strange and fervently pro-Israel vanguards of the discredited Westminster bubble - right-wing pro-war Labour MPs, the right-wing media, self-appointed hard-right Jewish groups (that do not in any way represent all jews) - amount to. All of the supposed contentious points in the IHRA definition and 99% of the controversial statements that are supposed to have constituted examples of anti-semitism relate to Israel.
The vast majority of the UK population either have a negative opinion or none at all about Israel, and it seems the tiny proportion who have a positive view are concentrated in our dreadfully discredited establishment media and political classes. Why? Obviously Israel plays a key part in ensuring that the regional interests of our country's very wealthy elite are kept intact, and also the subservience of our country's establishment to the US military industrial complex and its needs (for whom Israel is also seen as a key attack dog in the area).
But also I think the vile right wing establishment and their pathetic wannabes in this country see a place built on racial supremacy, extreme nationalism and violent suppression of perceived untermensch and see a model of a society they'd really love to be able to emulate.
The "Jews get out of the Country" Link (from one Peter Arif) is being viewed as a hoax.
However, here is a list from last March of about 60 cases with people in positions of authority within Labour - lots of Councillors and Branch Officials. There's no shortage. https://twitter.com/GnasherJew/status/1020255353781538817
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Your superabundance of silly comments has just added another one.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Not a chance
Of course it would be a chance, if the transition period looks like ending by the end of 2020 and still no FTA Boris would go the couentry on a platform of hard Brexit with him or permanent vassal state with Corbyn propped up by the LDs and SNP
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Your superabundance of silly comments has just added another one.
Show me any evidence to the contrary when the EU has meekly accepted a referendum result against its wishes?
Numbers of Jewish Voters. I find myself agreeing with @Jezziah, of all people on a couple of points. I think:
1 - Labour's recent fall in Jewish votes is quite minor ... they lost it some time ago. Perhaps this correlates with the rise of campaigns, which have been driven in part by certain Far Left controlled Trades Unions. PCS had a lot of controversy, for example. 2 - There seems to be a further loss now, driven by the current debacle, and Corbyn's failure to address it except by circumlocution. 3 - There may be somet
The numbers of Jewish voters are tiny; after all, they only constitute 0.4% of the UK population and there are only a handful of places where Jews are a sufficiently high % of the local population and the constituency is marginal for there to be any possible effect.
It is quite clear that the major elements of the Labour party dislike Zionism, but this is nothing new - the Webbs, Ramsay/Malcolm Macdonald and Ernest Bevin are earlier examples. The current Labour leadership is clearly reluctant to follow the Zionist line, hence the unwillingness to implement the examples in the IHRA guideline in full. They are perfectly entitled to do this if they so wish, and I doubt whether it would do them any electoral harm.
The man/woman in the street doesn't give a damn, and even if she/he is paying any attention at all to the issue, is more than likely just to take a dislike to those who are whining. Mr Willsman's outburst at the NEC meeting is an example of this attitude, and I suspect many share that view, but are sufficiently PC-savvy not to express it in public. If anything, the longer this issue continues to dominate the headlines, the more antisemitism is re-inforced.
On that note, I wonder whether it might be desirable for PB to stop publishing so many thread headers on this topic. It matters little to the UK, compared to the enormous impact of Brexit (or more likely BINO).
One can hardly say that Brexit is not discussed on this site.
As to whether it matters (in purely electoral terms), I'd say it does matter to floating voters, and not just Jewish voters. Jewish voters make up 15% of the total, in Barnet, but the Conservatives won 44% of the vote. They gained all three seats in West Hendon, which is only 14% Jewish, and won an extra seat in Brunswick Park, which is only 7% Jewish.
It certainly matters in betting terms, as those of us who bet against Labour winning Barnet, profited handsomely.
Even people who are bit anti-semitic dislike the ludicrous conspiracy theories.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Not a chance
Hard Brexit is the default - it's what you get when everything else has been rejected. The HoC itself has already legislated for this and it is now not within its own unique power to stop it.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Your superabundance of silly comments has just added another one.
Show me any evidence to the contrary when the EU has meekly accepted a referendum result against its wishes?
The EU accepted four amendments/opt outs to the Maastricht treaty for Denmark so they could ratify the Maastricht Treaty after the Danes had rejected the original treaty in a referendum.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
No you dont. You base so much on assumptions and dare I say polls. This is a negotiation. Stop believing everything you read or hear and treat it all with caution
There are no polls to be mentioned.
Barnier has made clear we only get a post Brexit transition deal if we effectively stay in the single market and customs union in all but name to deal with the Irish border issue which is what the Chequers Deal moved towards and Juncker has made clear it took Canada 7 years to get a FTA with the EU and the EU would take the same approach with the UK.
Good morning all. Brexit and anti-semitism. Oof. Thin fare for such a once-diverse site!
Making EU agreement to a FTA potentially even longer than 7 years
The EU cannot offer the UK an FTA because they are dysfunctional. Not surprising they want the money up front as they can’t deliver. They have nothing to offer us - only a complete cretin would do a deal on this basis. Oh, wait....
On theory we could get a FTA from the EU but in practice it would take the best part of a decade
That is horse manure, we are not starting from scratch , everything is in place and harmonised, it is as simple as signing a piece of paper. They are milking it because the Tories are incompetent , stupid and completely useless. EU will stiff them for the 40B and give them a crap deal because they are so stupid.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Your superabundance of silly comments has just added another one.
Show me any evidence to the contrary when the EU has meekly accepted a referendum result against its wishes?
The EU accepted four amendments/opt outs to the Maastricht treaty for Denmark so they could ratify the Maastricht Treaty after the Danes had rejected the original treaty in a referendum.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
I looked up the word negotiation. I cannot see any connection between this word and whatever May is doing.
I am sorry at your lack of understanding.
May is negotiating with whoever on the other side she thinks ought to be negotiating.
To be fair, the UK had a very poor hand all along unless the UK side was ready for a WTO deal right from the beginning.
For some reason, probably arrogance, the UK side believed the EU needed an FTA badly.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Your superabundance of silly comments has just added another one.
Show me any evidence to the contrary when the EU has meekly accepted a referendum result against its wishes?
The EU accepted four amendments/opt outs to the Maastricht treaty for Denmark so they could ratify the Maastricht Treaty after the Danes had rejected the original treaty in a referendum.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Your superabundance of silly comments has just added another one.
Show me any evidence to the contrary when the EU has meekly accepted a referendum result against its wishes?
The EU accepted four amendments/opt outs to the Maastricht treaty for Denmark so they could ratify the Maastricht Treaty after the Danes had rejected the original treaty in a referendum.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
No you dont. You base so much on assumptions and dare I say polls. This is a negotiation. Stop believing everything you read or hear and treat it all with caution
There are no polls to be mentioned.
Barnier has made clear we only get a post Brexit transition deal if we effectively stay in the single market and customs union in all but name to deal with the Irish border issue which is what the Chequers Deal moved towards and Juncker has made clear it took Canada 7 years to get a FTA with the EU and the EU would take the same approach with the UK.
Good morning all. Brexit and anti-semitism. Oof. Thin fare for such a once-diverse site!
Making EU agreement to a FTA potentially even longer than 7 years
The EU cannot offer the UK an FTA because they are dysfunctional. Not surprising they want the money up front as they can’t deliver. They have nothing to offer us - only a complete cretin would do a deal on this basis. Oh, wait....
On theory we could get a FTA from the EU but in practice it would take the best part of a decade
That is horse manure, we are not starting from scratch , everything is in place and harmonised, it is as simple as signing a piece of paper. They are milking it because the Tories are incompetent , stupid and completely useless. EU will stiff them for the 40B and give them a crap deal because they are so stupid.
They are milking it because the EU wants to teach the UK a lesson and ensure no other EU nation contemplates leaving the EU
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
The threshold for reunification was agree in the Good Friday Agreement that was approved by referendum. The former leader of the DUP Peter Robinson said this week that the result of a border poll would be respected.
I hope you're not suggesting we should give in to terrorism?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
You’re making Justin short straws sound like a youngster!
Why not go the whole hog and enforce the Treaty of Troyes?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
You cannot have any certainty on anything today.
I can based on what we know Barnier and Juncker have said they will offer
Try looking up the word 'negotiation' before coming out with all your 'certainties'.
The EU does not 'negotiate' with its own or former members, it dictates terms they either take or leave
Your superabundance of silly comments has just added another one.
Show me any evidence to the contrary when the EU has meekly accepted a referendum result against its wishes?
The EU accepted four amendments/opt outs to the Maastricht treaty for Denmark so they could ratify the Maastricht Treaty after the Danes had rejected the original treaty in a referendum.
Even then the EU pushed another referendum on the Danes in 2000 to abolish the Euro opt-out agreed to pass Maastricht which the Danes rejected
The EU didn't push it, the Prime Minister of Denmark pushed it.
But going back to your original assertion, 18 years on, the EU have meekly accepted a referendum result against their wishes.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
Pushed by the EU who also overruled PM Rasmussen during the referendum and made clear Denmark could not unilaterally vote to Leave the Euro once it had joined in an attempt to force Denmark permanently into the Euro
Only Kohli among batsmen on either side has had a good match, 200 runs for once out, around half of India's runs excluding extras.
England have been bailed out by their bowlers, especially Curran with bat and ball. Three batsmen got starts and failed to convert, and in the second innings the entire top seven were pathetic.
And I could have written that about far, far too many Tests in the last two years.
Final disparaging thought - will the complete idiot whose muddle-headed scheduling meant that for the two most profitable days of a Test, Saturday and Sunday, we only got under two hours' play now resign?
Numbers of Jewish Voters. I find myself agreeing with @Jezziah, of all people on a couple of points. I think:
1 - Labour's recent fall in Jewish votes is quite minor ... they lost it some time ago. Perhaps this correlates with the rise of campaigns, which have been driven in part by certain Far Left controlled Trades Unions. PCS had a lot of controversy, for example. 2 - There seems to be a further loss now, driven by the current debacle, and Corbyn's failure to address it except by circumlocution. 3 - There may be somet
The numbers of Jewish voters are tiny; after all, they only constitute 0.4% of the UK population and there are only a handful of places where Jews are a sufficiently high % of the local population and the constituency is marginal for there to be any possible effect.
It is quite clear that the major elements of the Labour party dislike Zionism, but this is nothing new - the Webbs, Ramsay/Malcolm Macdonald and Ernest Bevin are earlier examples. The current Labour leadership is clearly reluctant to follow the Zionist line, hence the unwillingness to implement the examples in the IHRA guideline in full. They are perfectly entitled to do this if they so wish, and I doubt whether it would do them any electoral harm.
The man/woman in the street doesn't give a damn, and even if she/he is paying any attention at all to the issue, is more than likely just to take a dislike to those who are whining. Mr Willsman's outburst at the NEC meeting is an example of this attitude, and I suspect many share that view, but are sufficiently PC-savvy not to express it in public. If anything, the longer this issue continues to dominate the headlines, the more antisemitism is re-inforced.
On that note, I wonder whether it might be desirable for PB to stop publishing so many thread headers on this topic. It matters little to the UK, compared to the enormous impact of Brexit (or more likely BINO).
One can hardly say that Brexit is not discussed on this site.
As to whether it matters (in purely electoral terms), I'd say it does matter to floating voters, and not just Jewish voters. Jewish voters make up 15% of the total, in Barnet, but the Conservatives won 44% of the vote. They gained all three seats in West Hendon, which is only 14% Jewish, and won an extra seat in Brunswick Park, which is only 7% Jewish.
It certainly matters in betting terms, as those of us who bet against Labour winning Barnet, profited handsomely.
Even people who are bit anti-semitic dislike the ludicrous conspiracy theories.
Barnet is just 1 of 32 London boroughs, and London has only 8 million of the UK's 64 million population.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
She may not be doing your bidding but for many if she gets a deal that secures jobs and gives us control over immigration she will have succeeded.
Well the Chequers deal won’t do any of these things. It will land the next generation with 40bn of additional debt and provide all the downsides of EU membership with none of the upsides of Brexit. Or did you not read the report which confirmed what I have been saying for months - that the actual data shows that the countries with the greatest export growth into Europe are on WTO terms and those with the worst growth are in the Single Market?
You have no idea of the final deal but hard Brexit will not happen. The HOC will not allow it.
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
If Boris replaces May as PM and gets a majority against Corbyn at the next general election, hard Brexit could happen
I don't want an Anti-Semitic Government. That would be worse than an Anti-EU one, which is saying something. Labour ought to make it clear that offers neither.
Over to you, Jeremy.
I agree with all of that.
Me too. But I'm not sure Labour can do much more on this - we're now scratching at the itch rather than curing it. Corbyn has said multiple times that he's against anti-semitism and wants to throw out any anti-semites. I don't know that it'd be useful if he said it some more. He is obviously not a KKK sympathiser and what David Duke says is of no interest to us (just as when an American Nazi endorsed Obama - what was Obama supposed to do about it?). The discipline committee is pathetically slow and IMO needs to be expanded so it can get on with it, but it does have to work within the laws of fair procedure. The dispute on the precise examples of the IHLR is arcane and short of someone saying "Oh, on second thoughts you're right" will not be resolved.
What would you like to see to reassure you, Peter and Beverley?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
And almost brought about civil war in the north as 500 000 Ulster Voluteers had signed up to join the Ulster Volunteer Force, hence Northern Ireland was created.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
That was superseded by the Government of Ireland Act 1920, The Irish Free State (Agreement) Act 1922 and ultimately the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
That was superseded by the Government of Ireland Act 1920, The Irish Free State (Agreement) Act 1922 and ultimately the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
Of course. I am conveniently ignoring them. I do not believe the veto of the Ulster Prod should have been accepted. It was undemocratic. What next ? Veto for Co. Antrim ?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
The threshold for reunification was agree in the Good Friday Agreement that was approved by referendum. The former leader of the DUP Peter Robinson said this week that the result of a border poll would be respected.
I hope you're not suggesting we should give in to terrorism?
The Good Friday Agreement only worked because of powersharing between Protestant Unionists and Catholic Nationalists at Stormont, its border poll language was irrelevant.
I was not condoning terrorism just stating forcing Protestant Antrim and much of Down into the Republic of Ireland against their will would lead to bodybags and a terrorism campaign from loyalist paramilitaries in the Republic of Ireland just as direct rule from Westminster in Northern Ireland led to bodybags and a terrorist campaign from the IRA in the UK
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
The threshold for reunification was agree in the Good Friday Agreement that was approved by referendum. The former leader of the DUP Peter Robinson said this week that the result of a border poll would be respected.
I hope you're not suggesting we should give in to terrorism?
The Good Friday Agreement only worked because of powersharing between Protestant Unionists and Catholic Nationalists at Stormont, it's border poll language was irrelevant.
I was not condoning terrorism just stating forcing Protestant Antrim would lead to bodybags and a terrorism campaign from loyalist paramilitaries in the Republic of Ireland just as direct rule from Westminster in Northern Ireland led to bodybags and a terrorist campaign from the IRA in the UK
Where's the "force" involved in a democratic vote?
Numbers of Jewish Voters. I find myself agreeing with @Jezziah, of all people on a couple of points. I think:
1 - Labour's recent fall in Jewish votes is quite minor ... they lost it some time ago. Perhaps this correlates with the rise of campaigns, which have been driven in part by certain Far Left controlled Trades Unions. PCS had a lot of controversy, for example. 2 - There seems to be a further loss now, driven by the current debacle, and Corbyn's failure to address it except by circumlocution. 3 - There may be somet
The numbers of Jewish voters are tiny; after all, they only constitute 0.4% of the UK population and there are only a handful of places where Jews are a sufficiently high % of the local population and the constituency is marginal for there to be any possible effect.
It is quite clear that the major elements of the Labour party dislike Zionism, but this is nothing new - the Webbs, Ramsay/Malcolm Macdonald and Ernest Bevin are earlier examples. The current Labour leadership is clearly reluctant to follow the Zionist line, hence the unwillingness to implement the examples in the IHRA guideline in full. They are perfectly entitled to do this if they so wish, and I doubt whether it would do them any electoral harm.
The man/woman in the street doesn't give a damn, and even if she/he is paying any attention at all to the issue, is more than likely just to take a dislike to those who are whining. Mr Willsman's outburst at the NEC meeting is an example of this attitude, and I suspect many share that view, but are sufficiently PC-savvy not to express it in public. If anything, the longer this issue continues to dominate the headlines, the more antisemitism is re-inforced.
On that note, I wonder whether it might be desirable for PB to stop publishing so many thread headers on this topic. It matters little to the UK, compared to the enormous impact of Brexit (or more likely BINO).
One can hardly say that Brexit is not discussed on this site.
As to whether it matters (in purely electoral terms), I'd say it does matter to floating voters, and not just Jewish voters. Jewish voters make up 15% of the total, in Barnet, but the Conservatives won 44% of the vote. They gained all three seats in West Hendon, which is only 14% Jewish, and won an extra seat in Brunswick Park, which is only 7% Jewish.
It certainly matters in betting terms, as those of us who bet against Labour winning Barnet, profited handsomely.
Even people who are bit anti-semitic dislike the ludicrous conspiracy theories.
Barnet is just 1 of 32 London boroughs, and London has only 8 million of the UK's 64 million population.
I'd say it's one of the reasons why Labour's support has fallen back since the general election.
I don't want an Anti-Semitic Government. That would be worse than an Anti-EU one, which is saying something. Labour ought to make it clear that offers neither.
Over to you, Jeremy.
I agree with all of that.
Me too. But I'm not sure Labour can do much more on this - we're now scratching at the itch rather than curing it. Corbyn has said multiple times that he's against anti-semitism and wants to throw out any anti-semites. I don't know that it'd be useful if he said it some more. He is obviously not a KKK sympathiser and what David Duke says is of no interest to us (just as when an American Nazi endorsed Obama - what was Obama supposed to do about it?). The discipline committee is pathetically slow and IMO needs to be expanded so it can get on with it, but it does have to work within the laws of fair procedure. The dispute on the precise examples of the IHLR is arcane and short of someone saying "Oh, on second thoughts you're right" will not be resolved.
What would you like to see to reassure you, Peter and Beverley?
"The discipline committee is pathetically slow and IMO needs to be expanded so it can get on with it,"
This begs the question, why hasn't it been expanded? Why the foot dragging?
I don't want an Anti-Semitic Government. That would be worse than an Anti-EU one, which is saying something. Labour ought to make it clear that offers neither.
Over to you, Jeremy.
I agree with all of that.
Me too. But I'm not sure Labour can do much more on this - we're now scratching at the itch rather than curing it. Corbyn has said multiple times that he's against anti-semitism and wants to throw out any anti-semites. I don't know that it'd be useful if he said it some more. He is obviously not a KKK sympathiser and what David Duke says is of no interest to us (just as when an American Nazi endorsed Obama - what was Obama supposed to do about it?). The discipline committee is pathetically slow and IMO needs to be expanded so it can get on with it, but it does have to work within the laws of fair procedure. The dispute on the precise examples of the IHLR is arcane and short of someone saying "Oh, on second thoughts you're right" will not be resolved.
What would you like to see to reassure you, Peter and Beverley?
I think Labour should ignore a very vocal and highly influential group.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
The threshold for reunification was e in to terrorism?
The Good Friday Agreement only worked because of powersharing between Protestant Unionists and Catholic Nationalists at Stormont, it's border poll language was irrelevant.
I was not condoning terrorism just stating forcing Protestant Antrim would lead to bodybags and a terrorism campaign from loyalist paramilitaries in the Republic of Ireland just as direct rule from Westminster in Northern Ireland led to bodybags and a terrorist campaign from the IRA in the UK
Where's the "force" involved in a democratic vote?
A democratic vote in Counties Antrim and Down would be to stay in the UK as they are Protestant majority Unionist counties, it would be Catholic majority Nationalist counties voting to join the Republic of Ireland.
Don't forget either most Protestants voted to Leave the EU in Northern Ireland albeit by a smaller majority than most Catholics voted to Remain in the EU
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
That was superseded by the Government of Ireland Act 1920, The Irish Free State (Agreement) Act 1922 and ultimately the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
Of course. I am conveniently ignoring them. I do not believe the veto of the Ulster Prod should have been accepted. It was undemocratic. What next ? Veto for Co. Antrim ?
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
That was superseded by the Government of Ireland Act 1920, The Irish Free State (Agreement) Act 1922 and ultimately the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
Of course. I am conveniently ignoring them. I do not believe the veto of the Ulster Prod should have been accepted. It was undemocratic. What next ? Veto for Co. Antrim ?
The alternative was to go to war against them, which would have been unpopular with most British people.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
That was superseded by the Government of Ireland Act 1920, The Irish Free State (Agreement) Act 1922 and ultimately the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
Of course. I am conveniently ignoring them. I do not believe the veto of the Ulster Prod should have been accepted. It was undemocratic. What next ? Veto for Co. Antrim ?
The alternative was to go to war against them, which would have been unpopular with most British people.
According to my calculations (which are always sometimes correct!), four of the Six Counties now have a Catholic community background majority, per the 2011 Census.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
The threshold for reunification was e in to terrorism?
T
Where's the "force" involved in a democratic vote?
A democratic vote in Counties Antrim and Down would be to stay in the UK as they are Protestant majority Unionist counties, it would be Catholic majority Nationalist counties voting to join the Republic of Ireland.
Don't forget either most Protestants voted to Leave the EU in Northern Ireland albeit by a smaller majority than most Catholics voted to Remain in the EU
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
That was superseded by the Government of Ireland Act 1920, The Irish Free State (Agreement) Act 1922 and ultimately the Northern Ireland Act 1998.
Of course. I am conveniently ignoring them. I do not believe the veto of the Ulster Prod should have been accepted. It was undemocratic. What next ? Veto for Co. Antrim ?
A veto for Co Antrim and probably Co Down too would be inevitable, or at least the right not to follow the Catholic majority counties out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland
I don't want an Anti-Semitic Government. That would be worse than an Anti-EU one, which is saying something. Labour ought to make it clear that offers neither.
Over to you, Jeremy.
I agree with all of that.
Me too. But I'm not sure Labour can do much more on this - we're now scratching at the itch rather than curing it. Corbyn has said multiple times that he's against anti-semitism and wants to throw out any anti-semites. I don't know that it'd be useful if he said it some more. He is obviously not a KKK sympathiser and what David Duke says is of no interest to us (just as when an American Nazi endorsed Obama - what was Obama supposed to do about it?). The discipline committee is pathetically slow and IMO needs to be expanded so it can get on with it, but it does have to work within the laws of fair procedure. The dispute on the precise examples of the IHLR is arcane and short of someone saying "Oh, on second thoughts you're right" will not be resolved.
What would you like to see to reassure you, Peter and Beverley?
I think Labour should ignore a very vocal and highly influential group.
Ignoring the antisemitism in their ranks is what got them into this mess in the first place. Continuing to do it isn't going to help.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
Or loyalist paramilitaries bombing Dublin if the 2 Protestant majority counties in NI forced out of the UK into the Republic of Ireland against their will
The threshold for reunification was e in to terrorism?
T
Where's the "force" involved in a democratic vote?
A democratic vote in Counties Antrim and Down would be to stay in the UK as they are Protestant majority Unionist counties, it would be Catholic majority Nationalist counties voting to join the Republic of Ireland.
Don't forget either most Protestants voted to Leave the EU in Northern Ireland albeit by a smaller majority than most Catholics voted to Remain in the EU
Tyrone, Fermanagh, (London)Derry and Armagh
Yes they are the Remain voting Catholic counties of Northern Ireland
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
Chatting to an ardent Brexiteer friend and Tory activist this week, he is adamant that May is to blame for (1) the state of negotiations and (2) the impending Corbyn government that he expects.
When asked why May is PM and not one of the Vote Leave cabinet ministers, there was no answer. Boris, Grove and Leadsome so screwing up the leadership election between them was the point beyond which Brexiteers lost the right to blame the PM.
As for Davis moaning about his plan not being adopted, someone should have explained that the best plan in the world is worthless if the boss doesn’t support it. A man who couldn’t successfully influence his own boss was never going to survive contact with the EU negotiation team.
Chatting to an ardent Brexiteer friend and Tory activist this week, he is adamant that May is to blame for (1) the state of negotiations and (2) the impending Corbyn government that he expects.
When asked why May is PM and not one of the Vote Leave cabinet ministers, there was no answer. Boris, Grove and Leadsome so screwing up the leadership election between them was the point beyond which Brexiteers lost the right to blame the PM.
As for Davis moaning about his plan not being adopted, someone should have explained that the best plan in the world is worthless if the boss doesn’t support it. A man who couldn’t successfully influence his own boss was never going to survive contact with the EU negotiation team.
Given that Boris spent two years as Foreign Secretary, and his vision was all about Global Britain, if he wasn't able to sell that vision to the rest of the world he only has himself to blame. If it were true that the EU is no longer relevant to the modern world, perhaps things would have unfolded in the way he wished, but his premise was wrong to begin with.
Both main parties are currently completely indifferent to the damage they are doing because it currently only disturbs out groups.
It is a mess and the damage needs to be mitigated as much as possible. Seems to be a wall of silence on Macron - May meeting which does indicate they are acting responsibly and I still maintain TM is the best hope for a deal.
The leavers have shown how totally incompetent they are and as for Boris, the least said the better
The only post Brexit 'deal' she will get will be a withdrawal agreement and transition period where we will still be in the single market and customs union in all but name, details of the FTA to be worked on in the transition, as far as the EU is concerned potentially indefinitely
Don’t forget she will offer the NI backstop as well. That woman really will go down in history as the worst PM in history. I suspect she will need to spend her days living overseas in exile as she won’t be welcome in the UK when the true extent of her betrayal is revealed.
The NI backstop will keep the EU settlement question alive for years. No replacement PM will be able to honour it.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
Or "border poll"?
WE should implement the spirit of the Government of Ireland Act 1914. The UK Parliament recognised Ireland as one country , which it is, and agreed there should be one government there.
with you that Surby
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
We could start by integrating Northern Ireland with the Republic and making Scotland independent, and then wait for someone to come along with a vision to create a federal state out of the independent nations.
Comments
PS looks to be just points scoring on here about who can be Jews best friends and usual jibes about lefties etc. Tory right wingers have nothing good they can say about their pathetic cretins, so have to shout "look anti-semitic squirrel" loudly and often. Can they not just go back to Brexit means Brexit
Antrim alone has a bigger population than some countries like Luxembourg for example
As has been said earlier on here leavers have only themselves to blame with not a clue on how to achieve their kind of Brexit
However, here is a list from last March of about 60 cases with people in positions of authority within Labour - lots of Councillors and Branch Officials. There's no shortage.
https://twitter.com/GnasherJew/status/1020255353781538817
"Nobody ever beats the EU in a negotiation."
Remaining closely aligned with the EU would be "a total waste of time", and "I'd rather us stay in that leave like that."
As to whether it matters (in purely electoral terms), I'd say it does matter to floating voters, and not just Jewish voters. Jewish voters make up 15% of the total, in Barnet, but the Conservatives won 44% of the vote. They gained all three seats in West Hendon, which is only 14% Jewish, and won an extra seat in Brunswick Park, which is only 7% Jewish.
It certainly matters in betting terms, as those of us who bet against Labour winning Barnet, profited handsomely.
Even people who are bit anti-semitic dislike the ludicrous conspiracy theories.
Thanks for the (mostly) kind words.
Then again I've no idea how Broad is still in the team.
There was only ever one appropriate response to the EU on this - Foxtrot Oscar.
https://bit.ly/2MeVxGz
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/19/george-galloway-interviewed-police-bradford-israel-free-zone
To be fair, the UK had a very poor hand all along unless the UK side was ready for a WTO deal right from the beginning.
For some reason, probably arrogance, the UK side believed the EU needed an FTA badly.
But going back to your original assertion, 18 years on, the EU have meekly accepted a referendum result against their wishes.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
I hope you're not suggesting we should give in to terrorism?
Why not go the whole hog and enforce the Treaty of Troyes?
England have been bailed out by their bowlers, especially Curran with bat and ball. Three batsmen got starts and failed to convert, and in the second innings the entire top seven were pathetic.
And I could have written that about far, far too many Tests in the last two years.
Final disparaging thought - will the complete idiot whose muddle-headed scheduling meant that for the two most profitable days of a Test, Saturday and Sunday, we only got under two hours' play now resign?
What would you like to see to reassure you, Peter and Beverley?
I was not condoning terrorism just stating forcing Protestant Antrim and much of Down into the Republic of Ireland against their will would lead to bodybags and a terrorism campaign from loyalist paramilitaries in the Republic of Ireland just as direct rule from Westminster in Northern Ireland led to bodybags and a terrorist campaign from the IRA in the UK
This begs the question, why hasn't it been expanded? Why the foot dragging?
Caste-botherers 0
Don't forget either most Protestants voted to Leave the EU in Northern Ireland albeit by a smaller majority than most Catholics voted to Remain in the EU
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-first-corbyn-says-israel-has-a-right-to-exist-under-1948-agreement/
how do we getother 26 lost counties back ?
When asked why May is PM and not one of the Vote Leave cabinet ministers, there was no answer. Boris, Grove and Leadsome so screwing up the leadership election between them was the point beyond which Brexiteers lost the right to blame the PM.
As for Davis moaning about his plan not being adopted, someone should have explained that the best plan in the world is worthless if the boss doesn’t support it. A man who couldn’t successfully influence his own boss was never going to survive contact with the EU negotiation team.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_Third_Way