No as even the mobility framework will still not be free movement, let alone no deal
There is no "mobility framework", it doesn't exist. It's just a name, that's all. You shouldn't go around believing that things exist just because they have a name.
It is not free movement, though it will still allow travel between the UK and EU for study and work
If labour mps grasp this moment and resign the whip and become a remain party adopting the peoples vote anything could happen
Politics has been accelerating since 2010. God knows where we'll end up. It could be anything from a Corbynite Venezuela-style paradise to a JRM-style theocracy.
In other news: apology for the sweariness earlier. I've just learnt a loved uncle has died, and I'm slightly pi**ed in more ways than one.
Sorry to hear that. Condolences Mr JJ.
Thanks too you and Mr G. It was both expected - he had been ill for a while - and unexpected - he was much better. But he was a great guy and (gulp) only nineteen years older than me. Most of my uncles and aunts were much older than me - as a child he almost felt like he was my generation.
It just shows that with all the wondrous medical advances over the last few decades, we've got a long way to go.
My condolences also.
As you say, modern medicine can do wonders, but we are all of us still vulnerable to rotten luck.
The Israel lovers here have been very quiet about this.
Aren't the people demonstrating, um, Israelis??
As is their right. But are they actually saying the word 'apartheid'?
I'm sure surby is being more than a little quiet about such nations as Iran and Pakistan defining themselves as "Islamic" Republics?
I am totally against the "Islamic" republics of Pakistan, Iran or wherever. I am the biggest critic of Saudi Arabia and its beheadings. But I do not see too many criticisms of Saudi Arabia here because they buy our arms ! PB contributors can be hypocritical too.
I also do not read Sunil criticising Cow vigilantes in India killing people allegedly eating beef !
I am a vegetarian, not a Hindu. Thanks!
So you do not criticise Cow vigilantes. Thanks for clearing that up.
I do criticise them, as I am against violence in all forms, because, as you know, I am a vegetarian. Now stop criticising Israel, when for decades Iran and Pakistan have defined themselves as Islamic Republics.
There's that newsreel clip at Partition showing a signpost with a sign pointing one way saying "Republic of India" and in the opposite direction saying "Islamic Republic of Pakistan."
Remind me again what the definition of "whataboutery" is?
No as even the mobility framework will still not be free movement, let alone no deal
There is no "mobility framework", it doesn't exist. It's just a name, that's all. You shouldn't go around believing that things exist just because they have a name.
It is not free movement, though it will still allow travel between the UK and EU for study and work
To allow anything, it would have to *exist*. Since it doesn't, in fact, exist, nor is it ever going to exist beyond being a name, then making any statements about what it does is just gibberish.
You may as well say the immobility framework will give everyone a free owl and make us all smell faintly of asparagus for all the sense it makes.
I think you're making that common Brexiteer mistake of confusing the reality inside your head with external reality again. That's been happening a lot recently.
I wonder why the anti-Semitic back history of Corbyn appears to be sticking whilst his in many ways worse support and promotion of the IRA hasn't so far.
Where is the proof that it is sticking at all outside a sub-section of lovers of Israel ?
The Israel lovers here have been very quiet about this.
Aren't the people demonstrating, um, Israelis??
As is their right. But are they actually saying the word 'apartheid'?
I'm sure surby is being more than a little quiet about such nations as Iran and Pakistan defining themselves as "Islamic" Republics?
I am totally against the "Islamic" republics of Pakistan, Iran or wherever. I am the biggest critic of Saudi Arabia and its beheadings. But I do not see too many criticisms of Saudi Arabia here because they buy our arms ! PB contributors can be hypocritical too.
I also do not read Sunil criticising Cow vigilantes in India killing people allegedly eating beef !
I am a vegetarian, not a Hindu. Thanks!
So you do not criticise Cow vigilantes. Thanks for clearing that up.
I do criticise them, as I am against violence in all forms, because, as you know, I am a vegetarian. Now stop criticising Israel, when for decades Iran and Pakistan have defined themselves as Islamic Republics.
There's that newsreel clip at Partition showing a signpost with a sign pointing one way saying "Republic of India" and in the opposite direction saying "Islamic Republic of Pakistan."
No as even the mobility framework will still not be free movement, let alone no deal
There is no "mobility framework", it doesn't exist. It's just a name, that's all. You shouldn't go around believing that things exist just because they have a name.
It is not free movement, though it will still allow travel between the UK and EU for study and work
To allow anything, it would have to *exist*. Since it doesn't, in fact, exist, nor is it ever going to exist beyond being a name, then making any statements about what it does is just gibberish.
You may as well say the immobility framework will give everyone a free owl and make us all smell faintly of asparagus for all the sense it makes.
I think you're making that common Brexiteer mistake of confusing the reality inside your head with external reality again. That's been happening a lot recently.
It will exist for the duration of the transition period once we have left the EU and will end the right of free movement to come for up to 3 months even without a job offer and replace it with a requirement to have a job offer or an offer of a study placement on a course.
Even the EU has few complaints about it in terms of agreeing the transition, they are more concerned with the need for more alignment on services regulation as well as on goods regulation as May has proposed to avoid a hard border in Ireland
It will exist for the duration of the transition period once we have left the EU and will end the right of free movement to cone for up to 3 months even without a job offer and replace it with a requirement to have a job offer or an offer of a study placement on a course.
It won't exist, because it's cake of the most blatant kind. If May were to seriously propose this bit of cake *now* she'd be laughed out of Europe. What part of the "no cake" are Brexiteers struggling to understand?
NO. CAKE.
The EU will never agree to anything of the sort. The EU27 were in little mood to put up with any cake bullshit before the Chequers fiasco. Now, Barnier's hearty chortles of derision that would ensue if that's what the goverment seriously asked for would be heard around the world.
It will exist for the duration of the transition period once we have left the EU and will end the right of free movement to cone for up to 3 months even without a job offer and replace it with a requirement to have a job offer or an offer of a study placement on a course.
It won't exist, because it's cake of the most blatant kind. If May were to seriously propose this bit of cake *now* she'd be laughed out of Europe. What part of the "no cake" are Brexiteers struggling to understand?
NO. CAKE.
The EU will never agree to anything of the sort. The EU27 were in little mood to put up with any cake bullshit before the Chequers fiasco. Now, Barnier's hearty chortles of derision that would ensue if that's what the goverment seriously asked for would be heard around the world.
She hasn't been laughed out of Europe, that is precisely the point. She ran it past Merkel first and Barnier as I said is more concerned about the need for more alignment on services regulation which is the last bit of the withdrawal and transition period agreement that needs completion, not the mobility framework on which he has made no complaint in his post Chequers Deal statements in terms of agreeing the transition (note we would still technically leave the single market, so no cake either)
The Israel lovers here have been very quiet about this.
Aren't the people demonstrating, um, Israelis??
As is their right. But are they actually saying the word 'apartheid'?
I'm sure surby is being more than a little quiet about such nations as Iran and Pakistan defining themselves as "Islamic" Republics?
I am totally against the "Islamic" republics of Pakistan, Iran or wherever. I am the biggest critic of Saudi Arabia and its beheadings. But I do not see too many criticisms of Saudi Arabia here because they buy our arms ! PB contributors can be hypocritical too.
I also do not read Sunil criticising Cow vigilantes in India killing people allegedly eating beef !
I am a vegetarian, not a Hindu. Thanks!
So you do not criticise Cow vigilantes. Thanks for clearing that up.
I do criticise them, as I am against violence in all forms, because, as you know, I am a vegetarian. Now stop criticising Israel, when for decades Iran and Pakistan have defined themselves as Islamic Republics.
There's that newsreel clip at Partition showing a signpost with a sign pointing one way saying "Republic of India" and in the opposite direction saying "Islamic Republic of Pakistan."
The Israel lovers here have been very quiet about this.
Aren't the people demonstrating, um, Israelis??
As is their right. But are they actually saying the word 'apartheid'?
I'm sure surby is being more than a little quiet about such nations as Iran and Pakistan defining themselves as "Islamic" Republics?
I am totally against the "Islamic" republics of Pakistan, Iran or wherever. I am the biggest critic of Saudi Arabia and its beheadings. But I do not see too many criticisms of Saudi Arabia here because they buy our arms ! PB contributors can be hypocritical too.
I also do not read Sunil criticising Cow vigilantes in India killing people allegedly eating beef !
I am a vegetarian, not a Hindu. Thanks!
So you do not criticise Cow vigilantes. Thanks for clearing that up.
I do criticise them, as I am against violence in all forms, because, as you know, I am a vegetarian. Now stop criticising Israel, when for decades Iran and Pakistan have defined themselves as Islamic Republics.
There's that newsreel clip at Partition showing a signpost with a sign pointing one way saying "Republic of India" and in the opposite direction saying "Islamic Republic of Pakistan."
Remind me again what the definition of "whataboutery" is?
If labour mps grasp this moment and resign the whip and become a remain party adopting the peoples vote anything could happen
Doesn't seem likely, but sometimes history moves quickly, and seemingly out of nowhere.
McDonnell has been drawn into it now on comments he has made and it does look like Corbyn's inner circle are facing a huge crisis of their own making
The crisis amounts to this: Labour cannot win Hendon and Barnet.
The crisis amounts to this: to anyone of a liberal or soft-left persuasion, Labour currently looks like it is led by a complete bunch of c****........
Good luck getting them to vote for you.
If that was the case, Labour’s poll ratings would have totally collapsed by now - this story has been running for months after all. Remember, it was also said on here last year that the soft left and liberal voters would never even touch Corbyn’s Labour, and many of those voters went on to vote for them - in spite of all the very damning headlines about Corbyn and co.
Corbyn’s real challenge is attracting voters outside of his current coalition to Labour over the coming years, as it won’t be enough to get him over the line atm.
If labour mps grasp this moment and resign the whip and become a remain party adopting the peoples vote anything could happen
Doesn't seem likely, but sometimes history moves quickly, and seemingly out of nowhere.
McDonnell has been drawn into it now on comments he has made and it does look like Corbyn's inner circle are facing a huge crisis of their own making
The crisis amounts to this: Labour cannot win Hendon and Barnet.
The crisis amounts to this: to anyone of a liberal or soft-left persuasion, Labour currently looks like it is led by a complete bunch of c****........
Good luck getting them to vote for you.
If that was the case, Labour’s poll ratings would have totally collapsed by now - this story has been running for months after all. Remember, it was also said on here last year that the soft left and liberal voters would never even touch Corbyn’s Labour, and many of those voters went on to vote for them - in spite of all the very damning headlines about Corbyn and co.
Corbyn’s real challenge is attracting voters outside of his current coalition to Labour over the coming years, as it won’t be enough to get him over the line atm.
This has been a slow burn - but has got far more traction in the past 7 days. Expect it to start appearing in polling in coming weeks, as a reduction in Labour's certainty to vote figures....
Tom Watson could resign, most of the shadow cabinet tried that in 2016 and it just strengthened Corbyn's position. Outside of that the general tactic is to sit there and whine.
I don't want to come across as over confident but this tactic has been attempted by people within Labour previously and done nothing.
I don't think Labour will add many votes overall on what was a huge total but less votes in safe seats and more votes in marginals with a falling Tory vote would do it.
If labour mps grasp this moment and resign the whip and become a remain party adopting the peoples vote anything could happen
Doesn't seem likely, but sometimes history moves quickly, and seemingly out of nowhere.
McDonnell has been drawn into it now on comments he has made and it does look like Corbyn's inner circle are facing a huge crisis of their own making
The crisis amounts to this: Labour cannot win Hendon and Barnet.
The crisis amounts to this: to anyone of a liberal or soft-left persuasion, Labour currently looks like it is led by a complete bunch of c****........
Good luck getting them to vote for you.
If that was the case, Labour’s poll ratings would have totally collapsed by now - this story has been running for months after all. Remember, it was also said on here last year that the soft left and liberal voters would never even touch Corbyn’s Labour, and many of those voters went on to vote for them - in spite of all the very damning headlines about Corbyn and co.
Corbyn’s real challenge is attracting voters outside of his current coalition to Labour over the coming years, as it won’t be enough to get him over the line atm.
This has been a slow burn - but has got far more traction in the past 7 days. Expect it to start appearing in polling in coming weeks, as a reduction in Labour's certainty to vote figures....
TBH, I doubt it. Much as what I see as reprehensible going on in the Labour Party - asking why Frank Field is a Labour MP ffs! it does not directly impact on most people's lives. Much of the (tiny) Jewish vote (which wasn't remotely homogenous in any case) will be gone for a very long time, if not for good. It does paint the picture as a bunch of infighting bickerers (remind you of any other political party?), but Labours leads on issues voters see as important - the NHS and housing, for example, won't be affected. So no, I don't see this pushing Labour backwards - but it may very easily stop them making progress.
If labour mps grasp this moment and resign the whip and become a remain party adopting the peoples vote anything could happen
Doesn't seem likely, but sometimes history moves quickly, and seemingly out of nowhere.
McDonnell has been drawn into it now on comments he has made and it does look like Corbyn's inner circle are facing a huge crisis of their own making
The crisis amounts to this: Labour cannot win Hendon and Barnet.
The crisis amounts to this: to anyone of a liberal or soft-left persuasion, Labour currently looks like it is led by a complete bunch of c****........
Good luck getting them to vote for you.
If that was the case, Labour’s poll ratings would have totally collapsed by now - this story has been running for months after all. Remember, it was also said on here last year that the soft left and liberal voters would never even touch Corbyn’s Labour, and many of those voters went on to vote for them - in spite of all the very damning headlines about Corbyn and co.
Corbyn’s real challenge is attracting voters outside of his current coalition to Labour over the coming years, as it won’t be enough to get him over the line atm.
This has been a slow burn - but has got far more traction in the past 7 days. Expect it to start appearing in polling in coming weeks, as a reduction in Labour's certainty to vote figures....
I don’t see how it’s got far more traction in the past 7 days. The Facebook murial story that broke a few months ago directly implicated Corbyn in the same way that many of the stories published recently do. The Facebook murial story received significant coverage on the news channels and the evening news, and the saga then made the front page of many of the papers. Arguably, the IHRA saga has featured on the front pages somewhat less than the Facebook murial story did. This story was noticed by the public, as evidenced by the decline in Corbyn’s ratings (that, tbf had already begun with Sailsbury). But for whatever reason, that did not lead to those voters who were dissatisfied with Corbyn’s performance walking away from Labour.
Tom Watson could resign, most of the shadow cabinet tried that in 2016 and it just strengthened Corbyn's position. Outside of that the general tactic is to sit there and whine.
I don't want to come across as over confident but this tactic has been attempted by people within Labour previously and done nothing.
I don't think Labour will add many votes overall on what was a huge total but less votes in safe seats and more votes in marginals with a falling Tory vote would do it.
It has been said that the next GE will come down to who loses the most votes, not who wins the votes and I wouldn’t be surprised to see that happen.
Lynsey Hanley is an author and a visiting fellow in cultural studies at Liverpool John Moores University
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Frank Field is as good as it gets in the Labour Party. Frank Field is too good for the Labour Party.
If he is deselected I hope he stands as an independent. That will show Labour what's happened to its core working class vote. Sorry, guardianistas!
So he campaigns against poverty, set up the Feeding Britain charity and is a vocal opponent of universal credit. But because he has the temerity to also oppose anti-social behaviour, approves of self reliance and respectability and (like Corbyn) is pro-Brexit he should be deselected.
Lynsey Hanley is an author and a visiting fellow in cultural studies at Liverpool John Moores University
Most recommended comments:
Frank Field is as good as it gets in the Labour Party. Frank Field is too good for the Labour Party.
If he is deselected I hope he stands as an independent. That will show Labour what's happened to its core working class vote. Sorry, guardianistas!
So he campaigns against poverty, set up the Feeding Britain charity and is a vocal opponent of universal credit. But because he has the temerity to also oppose anti-social behaviour, approves of self reliance and respectability and (like Corbyn) is pro-Brexit he should be deselected.
This is how far Labour have fallen.
Incidentally, I read Lynsey Hanley's book about council estates a couple of years ago and found it very informative and interesting.
While the media are interested in antisemitism I have noticed remainers getting a lot angrier. Brexit was something I hadn't heard anyone discussing until a couple of weeks ago. But now I am hearing it being criticised openly. Indeed I walked past someone in a shopping street having a right old rant. I know the polls aren't moving but they don't pick up intensity of feeling.
Comments
You may as well say the immobility framework will give everyone a free owl and make us all smell faintly of asparagus for all the sense it makes.
I think you're making that common Brexiteer mistake of confusing the reality inside your head with external reality again. That's been happening a lot recently.
Even the EU has few complaints about it in terms of agreeing the transition, they are more concerned with the need for more alignment on services regulation as well as on goods regulation as May has proposed to avoid a hard border in Ireland
NO. CAKE.
The EU will never agree to anything of the sort. The EU27 were in little mood to put up with any cake bullshit before the Chequers fiasco. Now, Barnier's hearty chortles of derision that would ensue if that's what the goverment seriously asked for would be heard around the world.
Good luck getting them to vote for you.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45073385
Corbyn’s real challenge is attracting voters outside of his current coalition to Labour over the coming years, as it won’t be enough to get him over the line atm.
Dozens of soldiers were seen running away before the broadcast was cut off.
I don't want to come across as over confident but this tactic has been attempted by people within Labour previously and done nothing.
@The_Apocalypse
I don't think Labour will add many votes overall on what was a huge total but less votes in safe seats and more votes in marginals with a falling Tory vote would do it.
Lynsey Hanley is an author and a visiting fellow in cultural studies at Liverpool John Moores University
Most recommended comments:
Frank Field is as good as it gets in the Labour Party. Frank Field is too good for the Labour Party.
If he is deselected I hope he stands as an independent. That will show Labour what's happened to its core working class vote. Sorry, guardianistas!
So he campaigns against poverty, set up the Feeding Britain charity and is a vocal opponent of universal credit. But because he has the temerity to also oppose anti-social behaviour, approves of self reliance and respectability and (like Corbyn) is pro-Brexit he should be deselected.
This is how far Labour have fallen.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Estates-Intimate-History-Lynsey-Hanley/dp/1847087027
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/1025828663961509888
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1025855217655525376
https://twitter.com/lucianaberger/status/1025831802773151744
https://twitter.com/damian_from/status/1025838367240540168
Donald Trump won't be the Republican candidate, but he will wreck the party's chances
The real winner of last night’s Republican bear baiting was, of course, Hillary Clinton