Even without Umunna and allies and the SNP she could likely get it through with the LDs and DUP
Essentially the vote will be a choice between voting with May for a transition deal or voting with Mogg and Boris for No Deal
Plenty of people no deal means either no brexit, somehow, or we will rejoin all the sooner, I cannot see the LDs voting for any deal. And given how unpopular the action is I don't see how more Tories don't break ranks on it. Fox is underestimating no deal chances.
Yes that's the key factor pushing toward no deal - remainer MPs now think no deal would be so disruptive that the whole Brexit process would collapse. Hence the opposition of Mandelson, Greening etc to the Chequers proposals. They think that as the cliff edge approaches there will be panic and the government will be forced to backtrack by extending or even revoking article 50. And they could be right.
I don't know if it is the key factor - I think that is the significant though not majority faction who favour no deal - but I think it is an important one. People are going all or nothing, but it seems a riskier game to me for the continuity remainers than the no deal leavers - the former have to hope in the chaos a series of steps occur which help prevent Brexit at all, which is fraught with issues hard to control, while the latter just have to hope they can obstruct things long enough that they win by default, and collectively prevent remain becoming an option.
Either could be right, there is that possibility, but I think the no deal leavers have the simpler path to their goal, and failure for them is more likely to be that a deal is reached rather than remain. Failure for the continuity remainers is more likely to be no deal than we leave with a BINO deal.
Yes the choice is deal with May or hard Brexit no deal with Boris or Mogg not deal or Remain/2nd referendum if no deal
Boris would totally do a deal. He'd run against it, knife TMay, lead his supporters in a patriotic song then go back and sign on the dotted line. He's probably already practising the Tsipras shrug.
He won't as he needs to win back Tory to UKIP defectors to beat Corbyn and no deal will be better than May is offering which the EU will accept and which respects the red lines
He wouldn't face an election until 2022. Phase 1 to winning that would be not setting the entire fucking economy on fire.
Even without Umunna and allies and the SNP she could likely get it through with the LDs and DUP
Essentially the vote will be a choice between voting with May for a transition deal or voting with Mogg and Boris for No Deal
Plenty of people no deal means either no brexit, somehow, or we will rejoin all the sooner, I cannot see the LDs voting for any deal. And given how unpopular the action is I don't see how more Tories don't break ranks on it. Fox is underestimating no deal chances.
Yes that's the key factor pushing toward no deal - remainer MPs now think no deal would be so disruptive that the whole Brexit process would collapse. Hence the opposition of Mandelson, Greening etc to the Chequers proposals. They think that as the cliff edge approaches there will be panic and the government will be forced to backtrack by extending or even revoking article 50. And they could be right.
I don't know if it is the key factor - I think that is the significant though not majority faction who favour no deal - but I think it is an important one. People are going all or nothing, but it seems a riskier game to me for the continuity remainers than the no deal leavers - the former have to hope in the chaos a series of steps occur which help prevent Brexit at all, which is fraught with issues hard to control, while the latter just have to hope they can obstruct things long enough that they win by default, and collectively prevent remain becoming an option.
Either could be right, there is that possibility, but I think the no deal leavers have the simpler path to their goal, and failure for them is more likely to be that a deal is reached rather than remain. Failure for the continuity remainers is more likely to be no deal than we leave with a BINO deal.
Yes the choice is deal with May or hard Brexit no deal with Boris or Mogg not deal or Remain/2nd referendum if no deal
Boris would totally do a deal. He'd run against it, knife TMay, lead his supporters in a patriotic song then go back and sign on the dotted line. He's probably already practising the Tsipras shrug.
He won't as he needs to win back Tory to UKIP defectors to beat Corbyn and no deal will be better than May is offering which the EU will accept and which respects the red lines
He wouldn't face an election until 2022. Phase 1 to winning that would be not setting the entire fucking economy on fire.
He's taken enough piss in his time to be able to douse the fire with it.
Even without Umunna and allies and the SNP she could likely get it through with the LDs and DUP
Essentially the vote will be a choice between voting with May for a transition deal or voting with Mogg and Boris for No Deal
Plenty of people no deal means either no brexit, somehow, or we will rejoin all the sooner, I cannot see the LDs voting for any deal. And given how unpopular the action is I don't see how more Tories don't break ranks on it. Fox is underestimating no deal chances.
Yes that's the key factor pushing toward no deal - remainer MPs now think no deal would be so disruptive that the whole Brexit process would collapse. Hence the opposition of Mandelson, Greening etc to the Chequers proposals. They think that as the cliff edge approaches there will be panic and the government will be forced to backtrack by extending or even revoking article 50. And they could be right.
I don't know if it is the key factor - I think that is the significant though not majority faction who favour no deal - but I think it is an important one. People are going all or nothing, but it seems a riskier game to me for the continuity remainers than the no deal leavers - the former have to hope in the chaos a series of steps occur which help prevent Brexit at all, which is fraught with issues hard to control, while the latter just have to hope they can obstruct things long enough that they win by default, and collectively prevent remain becoming an option.
Either could be right, there is that possibility, but I think the no deal leavers have the simpler path to their goal, and failure for them is more likely to be that a deal is reached rather than remain. Failure for the continuity remainers is more likely to be no deal than we leave with a BINO deal.
I agree it's probably more risky for remainers tha hard leavers. But I think the likelihood is that there WILL be panic in the months leading up to no deal Brexit (if that is what happens). The failure of project fear to materialise up to now has lulled people into a false sense of security - remainers have cried wolf far too often. But the wolf fable ends when the animal really does appear and devours the unfortunate boy, whose warnings are not believed. A no deal Brexit, for which the government has done zero preparation, could well do the same to the UK.
The government is stockpiling medicines and issuing vehicle visas to prepare for no deal while also preparing terms for a transition deal. It is diehard Remainers who are panicked, 38% of the country wants No Deal straight away with Yougov. No Deal plus Deal voters beat Remain in most polls
Even without Umunna and allies and the SNP she could likely get it through with the LDs and DUP
Essentially the vote will be a choice between voting with May for a transition deal or voting with Mogg and Boris for No Deal
Plenty of people no deal means either no brexit, somehow, or we will rejoin all the sooner, I cannot see the LDs voting for any deal. And given how unpopular the action is I don't see how more Tories don't break ranks on it. Fox is underestimating no deal chances.
Yes that's the key factor pushing toward no deal - remainer MPs now think no deal would be so disruptive that the whole Brexit process would collapse. Hence the opposition of Mandelson, Greening etc to the Chequers proposals. They think that as the cliff edge approaches there will be panic and the government will be forced to backtrack by extending or even revoking article 50. And they could be right.
I don't know if it is the key factor - I think that is the significant though not majority faction who favour no deal - but I think it is an important one. People are going all or nothing, but it seems a riskier game to me for the continuity remainers than the no deal leavers - the former have to hope in the chaos a series of steps occur which help prevent Brexit at all, which is fraught with issues hard to control, while the latter just have to hope they can obstruct things long enough that they win by default, and collectively prevent remain becoming an option.
Either could be right, there is that possibility, but I think the no deal leavers have the simpler path to their goal, and failure for them is more likely to be that a deal is reached rather than remain. Failure for the continuity remainers is more likely to be no deal than we leave with a BINO deal.
Yes the choice is deal with May or hard Brexit no deal with Boris or Mogg not deal or Remain/2nd referendum if no deal
Boris would totally do a deal. He'd run against it, knife TMay, lead his supporters in a patriotic song then go back and sign on the dotted line. He's probably already practising the Tsipras shrug.
He won't as he needs to win back Tory to UKIP defectors to beat Corbyn and no deal will be better than May is offering which the EU will accept and which respects the red lines
He wouldn't face an election until 2022. Phase 1 to winning that would be not setting the entire fucking economy on fire.
Disrespecting the Brexit vote would be worse for the Tories.
It is diehard Remainers predicting economic armageddon
Polls are no guide - a few days' panic about petrol supplies in 2000 pushed Hagues Tories into the lead during Blairs first term.
The government has done no serious planning for no deal - I receive government circulars to business as part of my job - we have circulars from HMRC, national statistics, DWP etc etc. The number of circulars we have had about no deal Brexit resilience is zero.
Even without Umunna and allies and the SNP she could likely get it through with the LDs and DUP
Essentially the vote will be a choice between voting with May for a transition deal or voting with Mogg and Boris for No Deal
Plenty of people no deal means either no brexit, somehow, or we will rejoin all the sooner, I cannot see the LDs voting for any deal. And given how unpopular the action is I don't see how more Tories don't break ranks on it. Fox is underestimating no deal chances.
Yes that's the key factor pushing toward no deal - remainer MPs now think no deal would be so disruptive that the whole Brexit process would collapse. Hence the opposition of Mandelson, Greening etc to the Chequers proposals. They think that as the cliff edge approaches there will be panic and the government will be forced to backtrack by extending or even revoking article 50. And they could be right.
I don't know if it is the key factor - I think that is the significant though not majority faction who favour no deal - but I think it is an important one. People are going all or nothing, but it seems a riskier game to me for the continuity remainers than the no deal leavers - the former have to hope in the chaos a series of steps occur which help prevent Brexit at all, which is fraught with issues hard to control, while the latter just have to hope they can obstruct things long enough that they win by default, and collectively prevent remain becoming an option.
Either could be right, there is that possibility, but I think the no deal leavers have the simpler path to their goal, and failure for them is more likely to be that a deal is reached rather than remain. Failure for the continuity remainers is more likely to be no deal than we leave with a BINO deal.
Yes the choice is deal with May or hard Brexit no deal with Boris or Mogg not deal or Remain/2nd referendum if no
Boris would totally do a deal. He'd run against it, knife TMay, lead his supporters in a patriotic song then go back and sign on the dotted line. He's probably already practising the Tsipras shrug.
He won't as he needs to win back Tory to UKIP defectors to beat Corbyn and no deal will be better than May is offering which the EU will accept and which respects the red lines
He wouldn't face an election until 2022. Phase 1 to winning that would be not setting the entire fucking economy on fire.
As has been much discussed here as in other forums, according to a lot of polling, the electorate will not accept another "coronation" Tory PM without a GE.
As has been much discussed here as in other forums, according to a lot of polling, the electorate will not accept another "coronation" Tory PM without a GE.
Even without Umunna and allies and the SNP she could likely get it through with the LDs and DUP
Essentially the vote will be a choice between voting with May for a transition deal or voting with Mogg and Boris for No Deal
Plenty of people no deal means either no brexit, somehow, or we will rejoin all the sooner, I cannot see the LDs voting for any deal. And given how unpopular the action is I don't see how more Tories don't break ranks on it. Fox is underestimating no deal chances.
Yes that's the key factor pushing toward no deal - remainer MPs now think no deal would be so disruptive that the whole Brexit process would collapse. They think that as the cliff edge approaches there will be panic and the government will be forced to backtrack by extending or even revoking article 50. And they could be right.
I don't know if it is the key factor - I think that is the significant though not majority faction who favour no deal - but I think it is an important one. People are going all or nothing, but it seems a riskier game to me for the continuity remainers than the no deal leavers - the former have to hope in the chaos a series of steps occur which help prevent Brexit at all, which is fraught with issues hard to control, while the latter just have to hope they can obstruct things long enough that they win by default, and collectively prevent remain becoming an option.
Either could be right, there is that possibility, but I think the no deal leavers have the simpler path to their goal, and failure for them is more likely to be that a deal is reached rather than remain. Failure for the continuity remainers is more likely to be no deal than we leave with a BINO deal.
I agree it's probably more risky for remainers tha hard leavers. But I think the likelihood is that there WILL be panic in the months leading up to no deal Brexit (if that is what happens). The failure of project fear to materialise up to now has lulled people into a false sense of security - remainers have cried wolf far too often. But the wolf fable ends when the animal really does appear and devours the unfortunate boy, whose warnings are not believed. A no deal Brexit, for which the government has done zero preparation, could well do the same to the UK.
The government is stockpiling medicines and issuing vehicle visas to prepare for no deal while also preparing terms for a transition deal. It is diehard Remainers who are panicked, 38% of the country wants No Deal straight away with Yougov. No Deal plus Deal voters beat Remain in most polls
What do you think the 38% think ‘no deal’ means, O wise one?
Polls are no guide - a few days' panic about petrol supplies in 2000 pushed Hagues Tories into the lead during Blairs first term.
The government has done no serious planning for no deal - I receive government circulars to business as part of my job - we have circulars from HMRC, national statistics, DWP etc etc. The number of circulars we have had about no deal Brexit resilience is zero.
The government is trying for a deal but preparing for no deal too, hence the stockpiling.
However most Leavers polled would back No Deal straight away anyway
Even without Umunna and allies and the SNP she could likely get it through with the LDs and DUP
Essentially the vote will be a choice between voting with May for a transition deal or voting with Mogg and Boris for No Deal
Plenty of people no deal means either no brexit, somehow, or we will rejoin all the sooner, I cannot see the LDs voting for any deal. And given how unpopular the action is I don't see how more Tories don't break ranks on it. Fox is underestimating no deal chances.
Yes that's the key factor pushing toward no deal - remainer MPs now think no deal would be so disruptive that the whole Brexit process would collapse. They think that as the cliff edge approaches there will be panic and the government will be forced to backtrack by extending or even revoking article 50. And they could be right.
I don't know if it is the key factor - I think that is the significant though not majority faction who favour no deal - but I think it is an important one. People are going all or nothing, but it seems a riskier game to me for the continuity remainers than the no deal leavers - the former have to hope in the chaos a series of steps occur which help prevent Brexit at all, which is fraught with issues hard to control, while the latter just have to hope they can obstruct things long enough that they win by default, and collectively prevent remain becoming an option.
Either could be right, there is that possibility, but I think the no deal leavers have the simpler path to their goal, and failure for them is more likely to be that a deal is reached rather than remain. Failure for the continuity remainers is more likely to be no deal than we leave with a BINO deal.
I agree it's probably more risky for remainers tha hard leavers. But I think the likelihood is that there WILL be panic in the months leading up to no deal Brexit (if that is what happens). The failure of project fear to materialise up to now has lulled people into a false sense of security pen to the UK.
The government is stockpiling medicines and issuing vehicle visas to prepare for no deal while also preparing terms for a transition deal. It is diehard Remainers who are panicked, 38% of the country wants No Deal straight away with Yougov. No Deal plus Deal voters beat Remain in most polls
What do you think the 38% think ‘no deal’ means, O wise one?
Disrespecting the Brexit vote would be worse for the Tories.
It is diehard Remainers predicting economic armageddon
Maybe you don't think it would be a horrendous clusterfuck but the people getting normal government briefings from experts and business leaders do, and Boris would be one of those people.
As has been much discussed here as in other forums, according to a lot of polling, the electorate will not accept another "coronation" Tory PM without a GE.
It's not up to the electorate, it's up to the DUP.
Whilst a company can legally claim it has one corporate structure to country A and a different structure to company B these kind of shenanigans will continue.
Not even country-by-country reporting can stop this, only global harmonisation/info sharing on declared corporate structures.
£8bn of UK sales being booked in Luxemburg seems to me an obvious place to start. Profits are being diverted from where they are generated to our very considerable cost. Amazon's bill should have been 100x what it was.
New law - for every ten migrant workers a business employs it has to fund a new house being built.
For multinationals reduce to every five workers, for workers being paid under average earnings reduce to every two workers.
What's that got to do with profits being booked overseas?
Its a way of getting businesses which are dependent upon cheap migrant labour to contribute towards the housing and public services costs consequent to it.
It would be especially useful for those companies which have operations in this country but avoid paying corporation tax here by booking their profits in low tax countries.
What evidence do you have that Amazon is dependant on cheap migrant labour? Multiple sources which are more than just anecdote please.
' The recruitment agencies that supplied eastern Europeans to Amazon warned their workers that, if they made a fuss about their conditions, there was a reserve army of their fellow countrymen ready to take their place. Bloodworth and his colleagues made about £250 a week. The average weekly wage in Romania was a little over £100. One migrant told Bloodworth he worked like an animal and was a nobody in the UK. But in Romania he would be a nobody without enough to eat. '
Do you think that Amazon DON'T make use of cheap migrant labour ???
They make use of migrant labour. That doesn’t mean that it’s cheap. Your implication is that native (or in UkIP parlance, white) labour has lost out. You’ve shown no evidence of that.
You should stick to fondling strawberry packets. Which does rely on migrant labour because the public care about no more than cheap food (and always have done).
So are you really suggesting that Amazon warehouse jobs are well paid ?
As has been much discussed here as in other forums, according to a lot of polling, the electorate will not accept another "coronation" Tory PM without a GE.
It's not up to the electorate, it's up to the DUP.
Even in NI, they are not that stupid. Take pigs, inseminated in the south and born, grown on in the North, sent to the south to the abboitoir, sent north to be processed into sausages and sent South to be packaged and sold round the EU. Such a simple example that Liam Fox can't understand it.
Comments
Pleasant day all.
It is diehard Remainers predicting economic armageddon
The government has done no serious planning for no deal - I receive government circulars to business as part of my job - we have circulars from HMRC, national statistics, DWP etc etc. The number of circulars we have had about no deal Brexit resilience is zero.
However most Leavers polled would back No Deal straight away anyway
NEW THREAD
A quick google shows otherwise.