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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » BoJo’ s controversial burka comments don’t seem to have hurt h

SystemSystem Posts: 6,389
edited August 7 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » BoJo’ s controversial burka comments don’t seem to have hurt him in the TMay successor betting

With TMay herself now joining those attacking BoJo for his Burka comments the big danger he faces is not being able to get enough fellow CON MPs to support him in the first rounds of voting to get on the ballot.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,825
    They would aid him.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 19,710
    I said at the time that a significant majority of voters would support his view: he doesn't like the face coverings, but wouldn't legislate to prevent them. Unlike the supposedly enlightened Europeans, who are doing just that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,630
    Sean_F said:

    They would aid him.

    Probably.

    It is a great fat dead cat on the Brexit table, and shifts the discussion to non EU immigration, which to the average punter matters a lot more than EU migration.

    Cynical and divisive, but quite possibly popular.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    Being attention seeking is probably showing good judgement, regrettably. He has an advantage because everyone talks about him and a lot have an opinion about him. I don't like him, at all, regardless of this incident, but he does have a great shot - yes the MPs are key, but while I disagree with HYFUD that they will definitely see him through the last two because he is the best chance of keeping their seats, I think he has a good chance of getting enough to do so.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,825

    I said at the time that a significant majority of voters would support his view: he doesn't like the face coverings, but wouldn't legislate to prevent them. Unlike the supposedly enlightened Europeans, who are doing just that.

    I don't doubt that most voters detest the burka. It is detestable.

    But, Boris took a swipe at people that was unreasonable (I hate to be in the position of bleeding hearted liberal)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    edited August 7
    57% of all voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll and 66% of Tory voters wanted to ban it.


    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/

    I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

  • notmenotme Posts: 2,844
    HYUFD said:

    57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

    I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

    Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,328
    His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

    I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

    Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.
    He can present himself as a relative liberal compared to the alternative then
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    edited August 7
    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

    I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

    Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.
    Am I being too snobbish to the public to think that enough people will see 'Boris...Burqa...Controversy' and assume he wants to ban it, and approve?

    Boris, for me, is a bit like Corbyn. I do see elements about him which I can see why people like him, but I do not understand why so many do, and why he gets as much of a pass about either certain views that would not be acceptable in others, or expressing said views in a way others would not be able to get away with.

    I'm with those thinking his odds should be shortening - I think his behaviour before he quit was pretty lousy, and his explanation of his resignation was lame, and he's so obvious and cynical in his actions now...but it could well work.

    Others need to step up, hopefully in better ways.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,825
    HYUFD said:

    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

    I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

    Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.
    He can present himself as a relative liberal compared to the alternative then
    And that is clever.

    His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.

    I agree that his odds should be shortening.
  • Have ultra right gangs ever burqa'd up?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,825
    kle4 said:

    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    57 of voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll.

    I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

    Boris didn’t want to,ban them. He wrote against it.
    Am I being too snobbish to the public to think that enough people will see 'Boris...Burqa...Controversy' and assume he wants to ban it, and approve?

    Boris, for me, is a bit like Corbyn. I do see elements about him which I can see why people like him, but I do not understand why so many do, and why he gets as much of a pass about either certain views that would not be acceptable in others, or expressing said views in a way others would not be able to get away with.
    I don't know. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could spit. If he saw an electoral advantage to being an enthusiastic supporter of the Burka, he would go for it.

    But, others see him differently.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 17,341
    HYUFD said:

    57% of all voters wanted to ban the burka in a 2016 yougov poll and 66% of Tory voters wanted to ban it.


    https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/31/majority-public-backs-burka-ban/

    I doubt Boris' comments will damage him that much

    I do not think they will only because I suspect the voters thought he was calling for a ban, like some EU countries already have
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 14,795
    edited August 7
    Whenever I consider the burka it is too easy to fall into the populist trap and echo Boris' comments.

    But where he is wrong, very wrong, is that there are some women who for whatever reason want to wear it. And he had been nasty and bullying in insulting them.

    That is rude and horrible to those women who have done nothing other than choose a mode of clothing.

    In Britain.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 17,341

    His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.

    Only if he gets past his fellow mps
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    TOPPING said:

    Whenever I consider the burka it is too easy to fall into the populist trap and echo Boris' comments.

    But where he is wrong, very wrong, is that there are some women who for whatever reason want to wear it. And he had been nasty and bullying in insulting them.

    That is rude and horrible to those women who have done nothing other than choose a mode of clothing.

    In Britain.

    Well, they seem to forget the saying of Grand Ayatollah Nudistani:
    "It is the Will of Allah (SWT) that we are all born stark raving naked!"
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,843
    Too early to say
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    FPT
    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    What do you mean "except Armagh"? Armagh is majority Catholic.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 2,570
    What exactly did Boris do as FS to suggest he would make a suitable PM?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Easy.

    Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,328

    His odds should be shortening. His strategy is clear and there are enough insane Conservatives for it to succeed.

    Only if he gets past his fellow mps
    85 should be enough when the time comes. There are probably enough for that.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,843
    ConHome is strangely quiet on the matter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 17,341
    dixiedean said:

    What exactly did Boris do as FS to suggest he would make a suitable PM?

    Nothing at all - indeed showed why he should not - I do not want my PM telling Airbus to FO, and acting irresponsibly the day he resigned , to mention a few reasons
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    edited August 7

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war.

    Up to 3 million are estimated to have died even in the Bangladesh Liberation War
  • If Boris does become PM I'll be rather impressed by the comeback.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Easy.

    Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
    Which one is Glenavy ward?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Easy.

    Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
    Which one is Glenavy ward?
    Light green block connecting the Lough to the dark green West Belfast wards.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 9,928
    So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

    I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,843
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Not even a YouGov poll to support that?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Not even a YouGov poll to support that?
    Up to 3 million died in the Bangladesh Liberation War alone against Pakistan, a Hindu v Muslim civil war in India would have seen many more deaths than that
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    Alistair said:

    So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

    I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.

    I'd thought so too (although with more a gritted teeth thank you), but perhaps seeing the scale of the disapproval of Chequers (let alone the watered down Chequers which is the best May could hope for) he is seeing his chance to move earlier, before anyone else can assert themselves, and where he can capitalise on people who want no deal to rally to him, but also try to get the vast numbers who theoretically want a deal, but not this one (even though there is no time to negotiate something drastically different).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 20,546

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Easy.

    Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
    Which one is Glenavy ward?
    FPT

    I stopped listening to Ken L years ago...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 20,546

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Easy.

    Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
    Which one is Glenavy ward?
    FPT

    I stopped listening to Ken L years ago...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.
    Without Partition far more would have died as Muslims in India went to war against the Hindu majority Indian government to fight for their own state
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    Charles said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Easy.

    Glenavy ward connects West Belfast to Lough Neagh. You can see these on my sectarian headcount interesting maps based on the 2001 Census.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/images/maps/map12.htm
    Which one is Glenavy ward?
    FPT

    I stopped listening to Ken L years ago...
    Very wise
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Not even a YouGov poll to support that?
    Up to 3 million died in the Bangladesh Liberation War alone against Pakistan
    The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only directly intervened a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
    See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

    Partition was only undertaken to avoid an inevitable Indian Civil War
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    edited August 7

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Not even a YouGov poll to support that?
    Up to 3 million died in the Bangladesh Liberation War alone against Pakistan
    The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only directly intervened a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.
    West Pakistani v Bengali after the Pakistani military junta launched Operation Searchlight against Bengali nationalists and intellectuals
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.
    Without Partition far more would have died as Muslims in India went to war against the Hindu majority Indian government to fight for their own state
    No polling data to back that up?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
    See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

    Partition was only undertaken to avoid an inevitable Indian Civil War
    At best you might argue 'The evidence indicates...', not 'The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
    See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

    Partition was only undertaken to avoid an inevitable Indian Civil War
    I think the point was that whether you are right or not that that is what would have happened, and you're not the first person I've ever seen to suggest it, it cannot be a fact as such since it is by definition a counter factual hypothesis?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
    It's HYUFD - anything can be spun to be a "fact" :lol:
  • If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 789
    edited August 7
    Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

    Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

    Possible questions.

    1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

    2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

    3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

    a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
    b) Support No Deal
    c) Support Remain.

    I might email Mike and suggest this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    edited August 7

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    Source please? You seem to care not a jot about the million or so who died because of your botched Partition.
    Without Partition far more would have died as Muslims in India went to war against the Hindu majority Indian government to fight for their own state
    No polling data to back that up?
    Well had there been a Civil War with mass deaths it would have been as there was no Partition.

    I picked the Bangladesh Liberation War as the closest possible comparison albeit on a lesser scale than an Indian Civil War
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    edited August 7
    stjohn said:

    Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

    Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

    Possible questions.

    1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

    2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

    3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

    a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
    b) Support No Deal
    c) Support Remain.

    Just for fun.

    1) Personally I didn't vote any way in the 2017 referendum, I must have missed that one :) But for 2016: Leave
    2) Yes, sort of (depends on the question maybe)
    3) Probably a) c)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 14,950
    Alistair said:

    So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

    I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.

    May deserves to go because she was the one who pushed the "no deal is better than a bad deal" line so frequently and now she has at best a potential terrible deal. By her own standards she has failed miserably.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    edited August 7

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
    See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

    The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only intervened directly a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

    The War was caused directly by the crazy idea of partitioning India into two states, where the eastern zone of the Muslim State (what we know today as Bangladesh) is culturally rather different from (western) Pakistan. For example, the Muslim Bengalis wear Hindu garb like Saris and write their language from left to right, like their Hindu neighbouring states.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    edited August 7
    stjohn said:

    Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

    Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

    Possible questions.

    1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

    2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

    3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

    a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
    b) Support No Deal
    c) Support Remain.

    I might email Mike and suggest this.

    1. Remain
    2. Yes
    3. c), a)

    Edit: Re 3. a) I'm assuming something similar to Chequers get agreed - at present the government has not negotiated a deal, of course.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    edited August 7

    Alistair said:

    So, I BoJo going to go for it in October then?

    I had been assuming that whoever wanted ot hbe next was going to wait for BINO to happen next year then step in with a hearty "Thank You" to May for a hard job well done but now we needed a steely Leaver to navigate us through the choppy waters of BINO.

    May deserves to go because she was the one who pushed the "no deal is better than a bad deal" line so frequently and now she has at best a potential terrible deal. By her own standards she has failed miserably.
    Deserving to go is not really the issue, it's when she goes and what can someone else accomplish and what should they accomplish if she goes now or otherwise in advance of a deal (the prospects of which I am in any case skeptical about). No dealers should have moved against her already, they surely have the numbers at the least for a challenge, but they can always just vote down something later, no worries as far as they are concerned.

    But anyone in support of a different deal should definitely have already moved in order to give time to negotiate the deal they want. Boris waiting until September or October means he has a lot more pressure to deliver something, and quickly, whereas 'reluctantly' allowing a bad deal to go through, but then presenting as the champion of harder Brexiters who will set us on the right path of divergence during and after transition would be easier for him, less pressure to immediately deliver.

    Night all.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 789
    kle4 said:

    stjohn said:

    Off topic - but BREXIT is never really off topic.

    Would a poll of PBers on a second referendum be a good idea?

    Possible questions.

    1. How did you vote in the 2017 Referendum? Leave or Remain?

    2. Do you support a 2nd referendum?

    3. If there was a 2nd referendum, with the following questions, how would you vote? (AV type vote with a first and second preference option).

    a) Support the Leave Deal negotiated by the government?
    b) Support No Deal
    c) Support Remain.

    Just for fun.

    1) Personally I didn't vote any way in the 2017 referendum, I must have missed that one :) But for 2016: Leave
    2) Yes, sort of (depends on the question maybe)
    3) Probably a) c)
    OK. My go.

    1. 2016 I was Remain.

    2. Yes.

    3. Probably a). Then c).

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 14,950
    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
    See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

    The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only intervened directly a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

    The War was caused directly by the crazy idea of partitioning India into two states, where the eastern zone of the Muslim State (what we know today as Bangladesh) is culturally rather different from (western) Pakistan. For example, the Muslim Bengalis wear Hindu garb like Saris and write their language from left to right, like their Hindu neighbouring states.
    That is just an argument for creating Bangladesh at the start not for not partitioning India and creating Pakistan as well
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    Except he won't, will he.
  • Awb683Awb683 Posts: 25
    Boris is to be congratulated for his comments.
  • Awb683Awb683 Posts: 25
    No deal is the way to go.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 14,795
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    HYUFD my old China, you can't say "the facts are" and then follow it with a conditional "would have".
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    Awb683 said:

    No deal is the way to go.

    You're looking very appropriately red in the face there Awb :wink:
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 5,889

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    No deal is better than a bad deal is necessarily true, and even if it wasn't the whole essence of negotiation is pretending that it is. Citizens of nowhere meant Starbucks.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 637
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
    This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,630
    Hargreaves also thinks that Britain needs a Corbyn government to teach us all a lesson. He has gone all swivel eyed. Brexit does that to people.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
    This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.
    Many things are. I would imagine it is due to a perception of who would replace each leader if they were removed. Despite her words which inspired 'crush the saboteurs' headlines, May is clearly not offering the hard Brexit red meat her base probably wants. A replacement, whoever it is, would probably tack harder, and be worse in their eyes.

    With Corbyn, despite the base adoring him, perhaps LDs think he would be replaced by an improvement.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,630

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
    This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.
    Easier to beat! LD target seats are nearly all Tory held.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 16,922
    Scott_P said:
    What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
    This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.
    As the alternative is probably Boris or Corbyn
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,731
    I think Boris was feeling sorry for Jeremy
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
    This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.
    "...always keep a-hold of Nurse
    For fear of finding something worse."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    Scott_P said:
    A bit extreme for being insulting and oafish. More pressingly, it is surely not the most insulting thing he has ever said.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447

    Scott_P said:
    What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?
    Precisely this:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 45,948
    edited August 7
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
    This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.
    Many things are. I would imagine it is due to a perception of who would replace each leader if they were removed. Despite her words which inspired 'crush the saboteurs' headlines, May is clearly not offering the hard Brexit red meat her base probably wants. A replacement, whoever it is, would probably tack harder, and be worse in their eyes.

    With Corbyn, despite the base adoring him, perhaps LDs think he would be replaced by an improvement.
    LD voters dream next general election would be May v Umunna, LD voters nightmare next general election would be Boris v Corbyn
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581
    Roger said:

    I think Boris was feeling sorry for Jeremy

    People attacking Corbyn helps stabilise May by at least keeping her off the headlins. People talking about Boris, whether in praise or condemnation, helps destablise May, since everyone knows his actions are about succeeding her, and he knows plenty will support what he says (or even merely what they perceive him to have said).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    A bit extreme for being insulting and oafish. More pressingly, it is surely not the most insulting thing he has ever said.
    "The dreadful truth is that when people come to see their MP they have run out of better ideas."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,519

    Scott_P said:
    What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?
    Nothing, Boris isn't in the cabinet.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 789

    Scott_P said:
    What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?
    If she is sensible she will do nothing. He is trying to build a new platform for himself and would be best ignored.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    Scott_P said:
    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?

    This is a media set commotion which makes him seem more in tune with the populace than the political establishment. Are Tory MPs this humourless behind closed doors or is this po-faced look just derived from a misplaced conception of where the middle ground lies? Look where fear of saying anything interesting took the Blairites.
    Tories now have both bases covered, May covers the PC pro Deal liberal class, Boris the populist pro hard Brexit class.
    Except May repeatedly insulted the PC pro Deal liberal class. May of "no deal is better than a bad deal" and "citizens of nowhere" rhetoric has already burnt that bridge. Now like many an ultimately defeated general she has gone to war with another front.

    May stands ultimately for nothing and nobody but keeping herself in power. So why should anyone stand for her? Who has she not attacked, insulted or betrayed?
    Today's Mori had most LD voters wanting May to stay Tory leader but Corbyn to step down as Labour leader
    This is interesting, why would Lib Dem voters support May. It is illogical.
    Many things are. I would imagine it is due to a perception of who would replace each leader if they were removed. Despite her words which inspired 'crush the saboteurs' headlines, May is clearly not offering the hard Brexit red meat her base probably wants. A replacement, whoever it is, would probably tack harder, and be worse in their eyes.

    With Corbyn, despite the base adoring him, perhaps LDs think he would be replaced by an improvement.
    LDs dream next general election would be May v Umunna, LDs nightmare next general election would be Boris v Corbyn
    Is that a fact? :wink:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 33,581

    Scott_P said:
    What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?
    Precisely this:
    There's nothing she realistically can do as her position is so weak anyway. I don't think that is what her comments were about. I think they were about fueling the fire, inasmuch as was needed, to keep the story going (while i imagine Lord Sheikhs comments would do that to an extent, the PM commenting directly make it bigger), with a view to trying to impress upon MPs "Really? As much as you don't like me, whenever the next contest comes do you want to be dealing with stories like this all the time?"
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 27,560
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    surby said:

    All counties except Armagh , Down and Antrim must have a vote. If the six counties can secede from Ireland, counties from Northern Ireland can also rejoin Ireland.
    The long term solution for Northern Ireland is likely Tyrone, Fermanagh and Armagh and Derry which are Catholic majority join the Republic while Protestant majority Down and Antrim stay in the UK. Until then Stormont powersharing should be restored.
    What are you going to do with West Belfast?
    Will HY be the Sykes or Picot of the modern era?
    The Radcliffe.
    "The Brits partitioned MY country too, you know!" :lol:
    And if they had not created Pakistan there would likely have been a civil war between Muslims and Hindus in India once the British departed
    You seem to forget that Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people.
    Without partition there may well have been 10s of millions of deaths in a bloody civil war
    Partition caused perhaps a million deaths and the forced migration of at least 10 million people. Face the FACTs please.
    The facts are far more would have died in a civil war without Partition
    How can that be an actual 'fact' ?
    See the Bangladesh Liberation War where up to 3 million died.

    The Bangladesh Liberation War was Muslim against Muslim (for the most part). India only intervened directly a fortnight before the Pakistani collapse in Dhaka.

    The War was caused directly by the crazy idea of partitioning India into two states, where the eastern zone of the Muslim State (what we know today as Bangladesh) is culturally rather different from (western) Pakistan. For example, the Muslim Bengalis wear Hindu garb like Saris and write their language from left to right, like their Hindu neighbouring states.
    That is just an argument for creating Bangladesh at the start not for not partitioning India and creating Pakistan as well
    As I said before, Partition was botched.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 4,447
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?
    Precisely this:
    There's nothing she realistically can do as her position is so weak anyway. I don't think that is what her comments were about. I think they were about fueling the fire, inasmuch as was needed, to keep the story going (while i imagine Lord Sheikhs comments would do that to an extent, the PM commenting directly make it bigger), with a view to trying to impress upon MPs "Really? As much as you don't like me, whenever the next contest comes do you want to be dealing with stories like this all the time?"
    That's a good point.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 9,731

    Scott_P said:
    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?
    a stupid comment even by your dismal standards
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 22,079

    Scott_P said:
    What will May do, when he doesn't apologise?
    Precisely this:
    Flag, quote and say he’s off topic?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 11,860
    Roger said:

    Scott_P said:
    If these women have the right to wear these garments, then doesn't Boris have the right to comment on their choice?
    a stupid comment even by your dismal standards
    That's not very nice to Sunil. :D
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 3,669
    It might be destructive and cynical, but smart politics from Boris nonetheless. His piece was only ostensibly about banning the burka; its real purpose was to delight his people by having a pop at the daughters of Islam. Looks to have worked like a charm.
This discussion has been closed.