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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: The Future’s Bright. The Future’s Not Coal.

SystemSystem Posts: 6,389
edited August 8 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: The Future’s Bright. The Future’s Not Coal.

You flick a switch, and there’s light.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • RobDRobD Posts: 34,029
    First :smiley:, and thanks for the video, Robert!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    Another good video Robert, well done and keep them coming!
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,588
    edited August 8
    The video is interesting but contains major omissions. Solar and wind do NOT reduce the need for baseload. Because, simply, there are times when they produce no power at all. Working out their cost on a per kw/h basis is misleading because it ignores the fact that when they are not producing, you need an entirely new plant to take the load. Basically, you need double the capital cost.

    I am currently responsible for demolishing a perfectly good coal power plant in South Australia, which has decided that it wants to use only wind, solar and gas for power, just as suggested in this video. The results are a disaster. SA has the highest wholesale power prices in the developed World, despite having the one of the highest percentage installations of onshore wind plus a famous Musk battery. Why? Because there are times when wind power across the whole state produces literally nothing. And it is NOT cheap to spin up a gas station just for this - the real cost is having it sitting there doing nothing. So when there is a power shortage, they will only spin it up if the wholesale price they get for the marginal power is outrageous. Which means that overall, costs skyrocket.

    The real truth about renewables is that in SA, the moment there is a problem with solar and wind they need to get the power from other states, mostly Victoria. Without this inter-connector, SA would have regular blackouts (and have had some anyway). And where does Victoria get its power from to sell to SA? Coal of course. And this is the reality of renewables - largely it just moves the pollution elsewhere. I have seen a study that shows that the CO2 generated by the Chinese in making solar panels is greater than the amount they have saved.

    I live near Sydney and installed solar on my roof. The reality, as opposed to the 'official calculations', is that it works out more expensive than simply buying the power off the grid. Home solar calcs are done on the basis that if you install (say) 50% of your total usage as capacity you will use whatever is generated. But it doesn't work that way at all. Even though my wife is at home all day at least a third of the power is sold back to the grid (at a large loss). Because you never need the power exactly when the sun is shining. If you put on the kettle and a cloud comes across, you don't have the power. If you turn off the dishwasher and the sun comes out, you waste the power. Batteries, despite all the hype, make the economics far worse. They take a long time to charge, they have a short life and they are inefficient. They also contain chemicals which are terrible for the environment and after 10 years or so you need a new one.

    SA consumers, I can tell you as an absolute fact, would be far better off if they had kept their coal power. Real world wins over theory.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477

    The video is interesting but contains major omissions. Solar and wind do NOT reduce the need for baseload. Because, simply, there are times when they produce no power at all. Working out their cost on a per kw/h basis is misleading because it ignores the fact that when they are not producing, you need an entirely new plant to take the load. Basically, you need double the capital cost.

    Baseload is - by definition - the power that is *always* needed. And that slice of the pie is falling. Instead the grid needs more flexible power, and that is better supplied by natural gas CCGTs which:

    (a) are flexible and can power up and down when needed
    (b) have much lower operating costs
    (c) now have lower fuel costs

    People think coal is cheap because - on a price per calorie basis - coal at the mine exit is cheaper than natural gas. Now, as it happens, Australia has a f*cked up natural gas market, which results in SA and Vic utilities paying some of the highest natural gas prices in the world, despite the country being a large exporter of gas. But that's not the fault of renewables, that is the fault of government policy decisions 15 years ago.

    What you say about batteries is not born out by my experience. I am an investor in a company that rents solar panels and batteries to people and takes the economic risk. I.e., we turn up at your door and offer you an all in price per Kwh that's about 20% lower than your local power company's. If we miscalculate, we're buying from the grid at a higher price than we've agreed to sell to the consumer. And batteries increase our returns meaningfully. (We're very conservative with our cycles assumptions.)

    Now, the big issue, as I identified in the video, is the death spiral for utilities: falling solar prices encourage people to put panels on the roof, which cuts profits for utilities and forces them to raise prices, which encourage more people to put panels on their roofs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477

    SA consumers, I can tell you as an absolute fact, would be far better off if they had kept their coal power. Real world wins over theory.

    Would you introduce legislation preventing people from putting panels on their roofs?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 7,733
    Couple of questions, archer.
    What is the percentage of you overall electric power usage actually supplied by your rooftop solar ?
    What are the actual retail electric prices in SA, and your neighbouring state ?
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 700
    FPT

    HYUFD said:



    That is just an argument for creating Bangladesh at the start not for not partitioning India and creating Pakistan as well

    As I said before, Partition was botched.
    The tragedy of the Indian subcontinent was that the realm of Dar-al-Islam was not established over the whole area during the Moghul period, with the pagan Hindu religion wiped out. Pagan religions were eliminated in Europe over 600 years ago, when the last pagan realm - Lithuania - converted to Christianity following a dynastic marriage with the Polish Jagiellonian line in 1389.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 9,295
    rcs1000 said:

    Now, as it happens, Australia has a f*cked up natural gas market, which results in SA and Vic utilities paying some of the highest natural gas prices in the world, despite the country being a large exporter of gas. But that's not the fault of renewables, that is the fault of government policy decisions 15 years ago.

    Sounds like the wrong kind of socialism. :tongue:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477
    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477
    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,482
    I thought domestic solar panel worked by running your electricity meter backwards whilst the panels were generating energy. So you don’t “waste” energy if you’re not using it whilst the panels are generating it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477

    I thought domestic solar panel worked by running your electricity meter backwards whilst the panels were generating energy. So you don’t “waste” energy if you’re not using it whilst the panels are generating it.

    It depends on where you are. Some places allow your meter to run backwards, while others do not.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 2,482
    edited August 8
    Looks like the Republicans have scraped home in OH-12 by about 1%. Still a big swing to the Democrats though as the Reps won by 36% in 2016, albeit with an incumbent.

    Have to wonder why they bothered with the special election though given the midterms are in 3 months!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,755
    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    Enjoy! One of the worst things about moving abroad is not getting to watch cricket in the summer.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,601
    Good morning, everyone.

    Will give the video a look once caffeine has been consumed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989

    Good morning, everyone.

    Will give the video a look once caffeine has been consumed.

    Good news for Force India, looks like a deal has been agreed, Lawrence Stroll among the investors so Lance could be moving from Williams, which adds yet another dimension to the driver market for next year.

    Sounds like everyone is getting paid out except the Indians, which serves them right for putting too high a value on the team. They both have plenty of other problems to occupy them though.
    https://www.motorsportweek.com/news/id/19420
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!
    I know. We were in the middle of negotiations to sell my business when the renewal came up, and I simply forgot to get the form in. :(

    Really dumb.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 9,317
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!
    Hand them over to one of Britain's top fundraisers? That's the LibDems' top raffle prize sorted! Second prize is watching the test match sitting next to Vince Cable.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 9,317
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464
    edited August 8
    I'm guessing an irate husband?

    Or an irate spouse?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 27,268
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,588
    rcs1000 said:

    SA consumers, I can tell you as an absolute fact, would be far better off if they had kept their coal power. Real world wins over theory.

    Would you introduce legislation preventing people from putting panels on their roofs?
    Not at all. SAs problems are not caused by household solar. They are caused by the Government rigging the power market for wind causing coal, a much cheaper and more reliable power source, to close. Wind often bids into the wholesale market in SA at a negative price, because at the end of the day they don't care about what they receive, they are guaranteed a return on capital anyway. So coal can't compete, closes and power prices rocket.

    In respect to your point about baseload, I disagree. Ultimately you have to have enough electricity infrastructure to supply peak demand. Peak demand is in the evening, when solar is of no use. SA proves that a huge installed wind capacity can quite literally provide zero power. Ultimately, the issue with renewables is that the non-renewable capacity required doesn't reduce much. It is easy to say that you can use cheap renewables and somehow 'turn on' fossil fuel plants when they are needed, but this is in reality ludicrously expensive. The 'real' price for wind is not just its own capital cost, it is the capital cost of all the backup infrastructure that you need when it doesn't work.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 21,428
    Really interesting video, thank you.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    An old friend of mine used to have an MCCC membership (I think he’s still waiting for the MCC one, two decades later!), we used to arrange many afternoon ‘meetings’ there back in the younger days to sit and watch Middlesex with a pint or six. Happy memories!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,755

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,601
    Note on the video: the solar point isn't entirely true any more, I think. If I recall correctly, modern solar panels don't require direct sunlight, just daylight, so minimum energy production (I'm assuming sunny days generate more) *is* known ahead of time.

    Good video. Interesting stuff (knew a bit of it but plenty of new stuff too).
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 9,317

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,601
    Mr. Sandpit, that's great news :)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    edited August 8
    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,588
    Nigelb said:

    Couple of questions, archer.
    What is the percentage of you overall electric power usage actually supplied by your rooftop solar ?
    What are the actual retail electric prices in SA, and your neighbouring state ?

    I probably produce about 35% of my total capacity via solar. About 25-30% of this ends up being returned to the grid.

    Power prices in SA are around 43 cents/kwH. In neighbouring Victoria they are 27 cents. But that will rise as Vic is getting rid of coal as well.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,279

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477

    Note on the video: the solar point isn't entirely true any more, I think. If I recall correctly, modern solar panels don't require direct sunlight, just daylight, so minimum energy production (I'm assuming sunny days generate more) *is* known ahead of time.

    Good video. Interesting stuff (knew a bit of it but plenty of new stuff too).

    You are absolutely right, and I'm sorry if I implied they did require it.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,588

    I thought domestic solar panel worked by running your electricity meter backwards whilst the panels were generating energy. So you don’t “waste” energy if you’re not using it whilst the panels are generating it.

    No. It used to be in the early days that some people sold power back to the grid like this but it has been phased out the higher the level of adoption. In NSW retail prices are about 29c/kWh. Unused solar power is sent back to the grid at around 7-8 cents which is far less than the cost of production (eg capital cost). This is inevitable - the grid still needs to maintain the infrastructure to supply you whenever you demand it. The fact that you might not demand it during the day just makes it more expensive for them to supply it at peak time. This is the renewable myth - intermittent sources are basically useless unless you can store the power and whatever the hype battery technology is nowhere near the stage where this is cheaper than just generating it with permanent sources in the first place. Some renewables (eg hydro and geothermal) are fantastic energy sources, far better than fossil fuels if you can use them. But solar and wind, which is where most of the money and hype has gone, are not. Proof is in the pudding - why are residential power prices rocketing across most of the developed World?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,236

    I thought domestic solar panel worked by running your electricity meter backwards whilst the panels were generating energy. So you don’t “waste” energy if you’re not using it whilst the panels are generating it.

    You save and make money, but the meter doesn't run backward
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464
    On the video as Robert mentioned at the end it seems likely that demand for electricity is likely to sky rocket once we are all charging our cars and other vehicles overnight (I also think this will have an impact on when we consume power and the need for more baseload rather than less). We need to think now about where all that extra power is going to come from.

    For the foreseeable future we look pretty awash with gas. That will be even more the case when we get over our silly paranoia about fracking. Will that be enough with ever increasing wind and solar? I have my doubts.

    Right now 16% of our electricity is being generated by renewables: http://gridwatch.co.uk/

    Of course the sun is barely up yet and that will increase during the day. As is frequently the case these days the % being generated by coal is 0%. Gas, CCGTs, is producing nearly half and nuclear another quarter. My concern is that as @archerau101 is indicating might have happened in SA, the infrastructure for electricity production by coal is simply not going to survive with so little demand for its product. I think that may prove unfortunate. We have a lot of coal left in this country even if we have very little enthusiasm for digging it up right now. I think we are putting too many eggs in one basket with gas and if demand increases significantly, which I believe it will, we may find ourselves paying a heavy price.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    I so much prefer the Oval to Lords. If there is a bad seat there I have yet to find it. In contrast the view from large parts of Lords outside the new stand is pretty ordinary, the facilities are stressed by a test match and the food and drink outlets are more limited. As someone coming to London for the cricket I find Lords much more of a faff to get to as well.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,911
    rcs1000 said:
    Lol. Would be funnier if it were him.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 4,671
    rcs1000 said:
    Very similar stories with Donald Trump also.
    I'm not a lawyer, but it does seem strange to me that a man can be accused of so much, and then settle before going to court over and over again.

    At some point, isn't it obvious that such a person is scamming the system, and is a wider danger to society and so should be prosecuted by the government, even if the parties involved want to settle?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    edited August 8
    DavidL said:

    On the video as Robert mentioned at the end it seems likely that demand for electricity is likely to sky rocket once we are all charging our cars and other vehicles overnight (I also think this will have an impact on when we consume power and the need for more baseload rather than less). We need to think now about where all that extra power is going to come from.

    For the foreseeable future we look pretty awash with gas. That will be even more the case when we get over our silly paranoia about fracking. Will that be enough with ever increasing wind and solar? I have my doubts.

    Right now 16% of our electricity is being generated by renewables: http://gridwatch.co.uk/

    Of course the sun is barely up yet and that will increase during the day. As is frequently the case these days the % being generated by coal is 0%. Gas, CCGTs, is producing nearly half and nuclear another quarter. My concern is that as @archerau101 is indicating might have happened in SA, the infrastructure for electricity production by coal is simply not going to survive with so little demand for its product. I think that may prove unfortunate. We have a lot of coal left in this country even if we have very little enthusiasm for digging it up right now. I think we are putting too many eggs in one basket with gas and if demand increases significantly, which I believe it will, we may find ourselves paying a heavy price.

    If we are going to go with gas power stations, for reasons of controllable output, low costs and relatively low environmental impact, then we also need to get fracking. Either that, or rely heavily on such politically stable places as Russia and Qatar for keeping the lights on!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 22,909
    daodao said:

    FPT

    HYUFD said:



    That is just an argument for creating Bangladesh at the start not for not partitioning India and creating Pakistan as well

    As I said before, Partition was botched.
    The tragedy of the Indian subcontinent was that the realm of Dar-al-Islam was not established over the whole area during the Moghul period, with the pagan Hindu religion wiped out. Pagan religions were eliminated in Europe over 600 years ago, when the last pagan realm - Lithuania - converted to Christianity following a dynastic marriage with the Polish Jagiellonian line in 1389.
    Why is that a tragedy?

    As it happens, Catholics and Orthodox were much happier for Lithuania to remain pagan than to convert to the "wrong" brand of Christianity,
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    On the video as Robert mentioned at the end it seems likely that demand for electricity is likely to sky rocket once we are all charging our cars and other vehicles overnight (I also think this will have an impact on when we consume power and the need for more baseload rather than less). We need to think now about where all that extra power is going to come from.

    For the foreseeable future we look pretty awash with gas. That will be even more the case when we get over our silly paranoia about fracking. Will that be enough with ever increasing wind and solar? I have my doubts.

    Right now 16% of our electricity is being generated by renewables: http://gridwatch.co.uk/

    Of course the sun is barely up yet and that will increase during the day. As is frequently the case these days the % being generated by coal is 0%. Gas, CCGTs, is producing nearly half and nuclear another quarter. My concern is that as @archerau101 is indicating might have happened in SA, the infrastructure for electricity production by coal is simply not going to survive with so little demand for its product. I think that may prove unfortunate. We have a lot of coal left in this country even if we have very little enthusiasm for digging it up right now. I think we are putting too many eggs in one basket with gas and if demand increases significantly, which I believe it will, we may find ourselves paying a heavy price.

    If we are going to go with gas power stations, for reasons of controllable output, low costs and relatively low environmental impact, then we also need to get fracking. Either that, or rely heavily on such politically stable places as Russia and Qatar for keeping the lights on!
    Yes, I think that is a real concern. We are about to wean ourselves off oil to a very material extent. To replace that with another energy source from the ME seems a bit daft to me. And being beholden to Russia for something as important as energy seems profoundly unwise as Trump somewhat rudely pointed out to Merkel.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,755

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.

    but the cricket.. not so good
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 46,236
    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
    This morning, as usual at this time of the day, 6.7% of our total energy is being supplied by the interconnector with France from their nuclear plants. We are also importing significant energy through the other interconnectors. Why do we want to import so much of our energy? It seems an unnecessary addition to our chronic balance of payment problems to me.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 45,601
    Mr. 1000, np.

    F1: no changes on the Red Bull second driver market. I wonder if the big shift (Hartley and Kvyat's prices ballooning, Alonso's shortening dramatically) were just down to weight of money or if some cunning insider info was partly the cause. I hope so.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,279

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.

    but the cricket.. not so good
    Current county champions. Although admittedly that’s not goiing to be the case this year.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 23,477
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
    This morning, as usual at this time of the day, 6.7% of our total energy is being supplied by the interconnector with France from their nuclear plants. We are also importing significant energy through the other interconnectors. Why do we want to import so much of our energy? It seems an unnecessary addition to our chronic balance of payment problems to me.
    Are you suggesting British firms should be banned from buying electricity from France?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,783

    I thought domestic solar panel worked by running your electricity meter backwards whilst the panels were generating energy. So you don’t “waste” energy if you’re not using it whilst the panels are generating it.

    No. It used to be in the early days that some people sold power back to the grid like this but it has been phased out the higher the level of adoption.
    Until last year my meter (installed about five years ago) did run backwards when the solar panels were generating surplus power.

    Unfortunately this was because it was a faulty meter that nobody had actually spotted, and when it was replaced with a smart meter this rather nice feature ceased.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,783

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 20,653
    rcs1000 said:

    The video is interesting but contains major omissions. Solar and wind do NOT reduce the need for baseload. Because, simply, there are times when they produce no power at all. Working out their cost on a per kw/h basis is misleading because it ignores the fact that when they are not producing, you need an entirely new plant to take the load. Basically, you need double the capital cost.

    Baseload is - by definition - the power that is *always* needed. And that slice of the pie is falling. Instead the grid needs more flexible power, and that is better supplied by natural gas CCGTs which:

    (a) are flexible and can power up and down when needed
    (b) have much lower operating costs
    (c) now have lower fuel costs

    People think coal is cheap because - on a price per calorie basis - coal at the mine exit is cheaper than natural gas. Now, as it happens, Australia has a f*cked up natural gas market, which results in SA and Vic utilities paying some of the highest natural gas prices in the world, despite the country being a large exporter of gas. But that's not the fault of renewables, that is the fault of government policy decisions 15 years ago.

    What you say about batteries is not born out by my experience. I am an investor in a company that rents solar panels and batteries to people and takes the economic risk. I.e., we turn up at your door and offer you an all in price per Kwh that's about 20% lower than your local power company's. If we miscalculate, we're buying from the grid at a higher price than we've agreed to sell to the consumer. And batteries increase our returns meaningfully. (We're very conservative with our cycles assumptions.)

    Now, the big issue, as I identified in the video, is the death spiral for utilities: falling solar prices encourage people to put panels on the roof, which cuts profits for utilities and forces them to raise prices, which encourage more people to put panels on their roofs.
    Rob am changing my electricity supplier (last one went bust because they underpriced). If you want to offer me a 20% discount always happy to listen :smiley:
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,279
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    Certainly a very nice place to be. As is Worcester, TBF.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 19,818
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
    This morning, as usual at this time of the day, 6.7% of our total energy is being supplied by the interconnector with France from their nuclear plants. We are also importing significant energy through the other interconnectors. Why do we want to import so much of our energy? It seems an unnecessary addition to our chronic balance of payment problems to me.
    We should be building the tidal barrages in Wales and elsewhere. The most crass of this Government's decisions to date.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    edited August 8
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions, taking huge losses in the process.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 7,733
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
    This morning, as usual at this time of the day, 6.7% of our total energy is being supplied by the interconnector with France from their nuclear plants. We are also importing significant energy through the other interconnectors. Why do we want to import so much of our energy? It seems an unnecessary addition to our chronic balance of payment problems to me.
    Long distance interconnections will be essential to an efficient electric grid is renewables continue to grow, and the traffic won't always be one way.
    If France wish to subsidise nuclear power for our benefit, I don't see the problem.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 10,911
    Top Tories are queuing up to have a go at Boris. Pickles right now on Today is the second of the programme, calling for him to apologise. Aside from the issue itself this underlines his lack of support in the parliamentary party.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,783

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    Certainly a very nice place to be. As is Worcester, TBF.
    Sophia Gardens is very nice as well - don't know if you've ever been there. Not difficult to get to either.
  • ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    You’ve never been to Headingley have you ?
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 1,023

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    Certainly a very nice place to be. As is Worcester, TBF.
    Worcester's ground also doubles as a boating lake.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,450
    With the report yesterday that global warming and temperature rises of 2 to 5 degrees over the next century could lead to the world becoming a 'hothouse' with parts of the earth uninhabitable we certainly need to build on and accelerate the switch to renewables

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-45084144
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron

    As an aside, I would like to make a prediction about Macron. If he survives into a second term, he will get increasingly Eurosceptic. I'm not talking Farage-like Eurosceptic, but he is a man who believes in the French executive (i.e. himself) having control. Right now, the things that stand in his way are domestic - i.e. the unions. If he succeeds in liberalising the French labour market and getting a second term, then the next set of things that stand in his way will be in Brussels. And despite everything he's said to date, I would expect him to clash meaningfully with the EU in a second term.

    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
    This morning, as usual at this time of the day, 6.7% of our total energy is being supplied by the interconnector with France from their nuclear plants. We are also importing significant energy through the other interconnectors. Why do we want to import so much of our energy? It seems an unnecessary addition to our chronic balance of payment problems to me.
    We should be building the tidal barrages in Wales and elsewhere. The most crass of this Government's decisions to date.
    That is a high claim. Even in the field of energy there is Hinkley C which is already looking insanely expensive and will be a drag on industrial production in this country for decades. But it was a bad decision.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,783

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    You’ve never been to Headingley have you ?
    Hey, I could have trolled you properly and said Bristol. But that would have been silly.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    On a different note, this doesn't seem to have gotten much attention on this side of the Channel:

    https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/will-scandal-sink-emmanuel-macron


    Of course, this is all dependent on his reforms working, and him getting a second term.
    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.
    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
    This morning, as usual at this time of the day, 6.7% of our total energy is being supplied by the interconnector with France from their nuclear plants. We are also importing significant energy through the other interconnectors. Why do we want to import so much of our energy? It seems an unnecessary addition to our chronic balance of payment problems to me.
    Long distance interconnections will be essential to an efficient electric grid is renewables continue to grow, and the traffic won't always be one way.
    If France wish to subsidise nuclear power for our benefit, I don't see the problem.
    The French nuclear power over the interconnect is going to be almost free I’d have thought, as their own baseline falls they’re going to have an excess of power at low demand points that has to be offloaded somewhere when their nuclear stations are all up and running.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 46,450
    edited August 8

    Looks like the Republicans have scraped home in OH-12 by about 1%. Still a big swing to the Democrats though as the Reps won by 36% in 2016, albeit with an incumbent.

    Have to wonder why they bothered with the special election though given the midterms are in 3 months!

    A huge swing then for.when the district was last up in 2016 and even when you just consider that Trump won the district by 10% in 2016 the fact the Republicans held it by just 1% gives a 4.5% swing to the Democrats which would be enough to see the Democrats take the House in November
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,279
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    Certainly a very nice place to be. As is Worcester, TBF.
    Sophia Gardens is very nice as well - don't know if you've ever been there. Not difficult to get to either.
    Yes. Only been once, but as you say, easy to get to.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    You’ve never been to Headingley have you ?
    I've been to Headingley twice this year. Again a faff to get to as connections with Leeds City centre aren't great. I can't say I was particularly impressed by the ground either but it will be much better when the new stand is finished.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 9,317
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
    My miniscule knowledge of public companies is that when my employer floated, we went from one accountant to two dozen on their own floor.

    If RCS takes video requests, how about the revival of pre-1990s style conglomerates (is that the right word?) like Tesla or Amazon which have divisions operating in quite unrelated markets, against the Wall Street and hedge fund conventional wisdom that conglomerates should be broken up and their constituent businesses sold off (or unlocking shareholder value and not asset-stripping at all)?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,279

    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.
    Although we all know of course that the finest cricket ground in the world is Cheltenham.
    Certainly a very nice place to be. As is Worcester, TBF.
    Worcester's ground also doubles as a boating lake.
    Not been for a while. Are there still home-made cakes in the ladies pavilion?
  • Durham’s Riverside is magnificent, mostly because of Lumley Castle.

    I’ve stayed in Lumley a few times and it is brilliant.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    edited August 8
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    On the video as Robert mentioned at the end it seems likely that demand for electricity is likely to sky rocket once we are all charging our cars and other vehicles overnight (I also think this will have an impact on when we consume power and the need for more baseload rather than less). We need to think now about where all that extra power is going to come from.

    For the foreseeable future we look pretty awash with gas. That will be even more the case when we get over our silly paranoia about fracking. Will that be enough with ever increasing wind and solar? I have my doubts.

    Right now 16% of our electricity is being generated by renewables: http://gridwatch.co.uk/

    Of course the sun is barely up yet and that will increase during the day. As is frequently the case these days the % being generated by coal is 0%. Gas, CCGTs, is producing nearly half and nuclear another quarter. My concern is that as @archerau101 is indicating might have happened in SA, the infrastructure for electricity production by coal is simply not going to survive with so little demand for its product. I think that may prove unfortunate. We have a lot of coal left in this country even if we have very little enthusiasm for digging it up right now. I think we are putting too many eggs in one basket with gas and if demand increases significantly, which I believe it will, we may find ourselves paying a heavy price.

    If we are going to go with gas power stations, for reasons of controllable output, low costs and relatively low environmental impact, then we also need to get fracking. Either that, or rely heavily on such politically stable places as Russia and Qatar for keeping the lights on!
    Yes, I think that is a real concern. We are about to wean ourselves off oil to a very material extent. To replace that with another energy source from the ME seems a bit daft to me. And being beholden to Russia for something as important as energy seems profoundly unwise as Trump somewhat rudely pointed out to Merkel.
    There’s an opportunity for government to get people onside with fracking by some creative distribution of tax revenues. I’d imagine that most opposition would quickly disappear if everyone in the District got a cheque instead of a council tax bill every March and no electricity bills?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 12,279

    Durham’s Riverside is magnificent, mostly because of Lumley Castle.

    I’ve stayed in Lumley a few times and it is brilliant.

    Did you see the ghost?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,783
    edited August 8
    Can we all at least agree that Old Trafford would not make the list of best grounds in England (and Wales)?
  • Durham’s Riverside is magnificent, mostly because of Lumley Castle.

    I’ve stayed in Lumley a few times and it is brilliant.

    Did you see the ghost?
    Fortunately no.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464

    Durham’s Riverside is magnificent, mostly because of Lumley Castle.

    I’ve stayed in Lumley a few times and it is brilliant.

    Of all the grounds I have been to that is by far the prettiest. Just a superb setting.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 4,761
    edited August 8
    HYUFD said:

    With the report yesterday that global warming and temperature rises of 2 to 5 degrees over the next century could lead to the world becoming a 'hothouse' with parts of the earth uninhabitable we certainly need to build on and accelerate the switch to renewables

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-45084144

    60 metre sea rises will be interesting. Perhaps not retire to Norfolk after all.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,578
    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions, taking huge losses in the process.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
    It seems highly unlikely that Musk has secured the $70bn needed to take Tesla private at $420 per share. To me it looks very much like a case of price manipulation intended to burn the shorts. If he has the money lined up then a formal offer would have been made, not a throwaway comment on twatter.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 19,818
    DavidL said:

    That is a high claim. Even in the field of energy there is Hinkley C which is already looking insanely expensive and will be a drag on industrial production in this country for decades. But it was a bad decision.

    They are linked. It was essential for the tidal barrages to be rubbished by the nuclear industry - because otherwise, it can be replaced as baseload by tidal.

    The tidal barrages were killed by a concerted effort by the nuclear industry. For now. It will be one of the very few joys of a Corbyn Government when he commits to make Wales an entirely renewables-generated country.
  • ydoethur said:

    Can we all at least agree that Old Trafford would not make the list of best grounds in England (and Wales)?

    As a member of LCCC I have to say it has improved loads since the redevelopment and it also the easiest ground to get to thanks to the tram.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 22,464
    Tomorrow of course sees us back at Lords, where other teams always seem to outperform and England are missing Stokes. I fear we may well be back to 1-1 in the series by the end of the weekend.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 21,568
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    With the report yesterday that global warming and temperature rises of 2 to 5 degrees over the next century could lead to the world becoming a 'hothouse' with parts of the earth uninhabitable we certainly need to build on and accelerate the switch to renewables

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-45084144

    60 metre sea rises will be interesting. Perhaps not retire to Norfolk after all.
    At sixty metres, I'd be living on a little island. Any more and I'd be a bit screwed.

    Then again, we'd all be screwed as it would essentially bring down civilisation, especially if rapid.

    Time to see if I can get some seed funding for my giant nanotube straw idea again. ;)
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 6,340
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 9,317
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Macron has the traditional French belief in the EU which is that it exists mainly to spend German Euros in France. That does not involve clashing with Brussels. It means ever grander schemes like an EU air force equipped with Dassault fighters, or free camembert for refugees. Brussels gets more power and influence; France gets more money and jobs.

    We can tie this to RCS's video.

    Germany is going all green about electricity. France has lots of nuclear plants. Clearly what is needed is an EU scheme to guarantee baseload supplies across Europe rather than just buying electricity on an as-needed basis, especially after those unreliable Anglos have Brexited.

    Germany keeps its lights on; Brussels gets more bureaucrats and a bigger budget; France gets more of those lovely, lovely German euros. Oh, and you can spend a few quid cleaning up Romanian and Czech mines in order to get the East Europeans onside.
    This morning, as usual at this time of the day, 6.7% of our total energy is being supplied by the interconnector with France from their nuclear plants. We are also importing significant energy through the other interconnectors. Why do we want to import so much of our energy? It seems an unnecessary addition to our chronic balance of payment problems to me.
    We should be building the tidal barrages in Wales and elsewhere. The most crass of this Government's decisions to date.
    That is a high claim. Even in the field of energy there is Hinkley C which is already looking insanely expensive and will be a drag on industrial production in this country for decades. But it was a bad decision.
    And Hinkley C might be overrun with Chinese spies and sabotage entry points. It might not but I doubt the Americans would take the chance.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/11/may-urged-to-pull-plug-immediately-on-hinkley-c-over-spying-allegations
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,783

    ydoethur said:

    Can we all at least agree that Old Trafford would not make the list of best grounds in England (and Wales)?

    As a member of LCCC I have to say it has improved loads since the redevelopment and it also the easiest ground to get to thanks to the tram.
    Evidently not.
    DavidL said:

    Tomorrow of course sees us back at Lords, where other teams always seem to outperform and England are missing Stokes. I fear we may well be back to 1-1 in the series by the end of the weekend.

    As I recall the only first class match India won on their entire tour last time was the Lord's Test.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 21,568
    Our house is 15 years old, and we're at the stage where we need a new boiler. Unfortunately there is a problem: the current boiler is a combined boiler and storage unit, and is smaller than 'modern' equivalents. I've had four different companies in, and there is no direct modern replacement, and having a separate boiler and tank would require altering its storage cupboard and remodelling the adjacent bathroom. All because the original builders tried to squeeze the boiler into a small space ...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 17,015
    HYUFD said:

    With the report yesterday that global warming and temperature rises of 2 to 5 degrees over the next century could lead to the world becoming a 'hothouse' with parts of the earth uninhabitable we certainly need to build on and accelerate the switch to renewables

    https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/science-environment-45084144

    "parts of the earth uninhabitable"? At 5C I suspect vast swathes would be unfit for humans.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 5,755

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.

    but the cricket.. not so good
    Current county champions. Although admittedly that’s not goiing to be the case this year.
    Impossible

    Middx are in Div 2. They were relegated last yr IIRC and were champions the year before.. unless I am living in a parallel universe?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions, taking huge losses in the process.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
    It seems highly unlikely that Musk has secured the $70bn needed to take Tesla private at $420 per share. To me it looks very much like a case of price manipulation intended to burn the shorts. If he has the money lined up then a formal offer would have been made, not a throwaway comment on twatter.
    If he’s not got the cash behind him (Saudis?) then surely he’s in a whole world of trouble with the SEC, who tend to take rather a dim view of such blatant market manipulation? Not to mention the hedgies, who’d happily sue his ass for billions!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 15,578
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions, taking huge losses in the process.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
    It seems highly unlikely that Musk has secured the $70bn needed to take Tesla private at $420 per share. To me it looks very much like a case of price manipulation intended to burn the shorts. If he has the money lined up then a formal offer would have been made, not a throwaway comment on twatter.
    If he’s not got the cash behind him (Saudis?) then surely he’s in a whole world of trouble with the SEC, who tend to take rather a dim view of such blatant market manipulation? Not to mention the hedgies, who’d happily sue his ass for billions!
    Yes, it could end up being one of the most costly tweets if all time. I seriously doubt the Saudis are going to pitch in $70bn, or that the US government would allow such a sale to proceed.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,588
    IanB2 said:

    Top Tories are queuing up to have a go at Boris. Pickles right now on Today is the second of the programme, calling for him to apologise. Aside from the issue itself this underlines his lack of support in the parliamentary party.

    The point is that Boris was quite entitled to say what he said and his refusal to apologise for it makes it play even better with the voters. We know that Remain central are scared to death of Boris and this is why - he is saying something that the vast majority agree with whilst the PM is just playing at being politically correct. May is right to be scared of Boris. If she thinks telling him off on this topic is going to help her, then she is delusional.

    I used to live in Saudi Arabia with my parents. My mother never went out of the house except with my father, and always wore long clothes that covered all skin below the neck. It never occurred to us to have her swanning around in a bikini because it would be racist for the Saudis to object. It is their country, their culture and we respected it without question.

    Burkas are an insult to the British culture and an affront to gender equality. I don't think we should ban them, but we have every right to feel that people that wear them are offending us. If pointing this out offends them, tough.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 12,783

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Lets talk about the important things in life.. Only 29 hrs to go till I will be sitting in the stand at Lords for the start of the Second Test...

    I used to have a pair of season tickets in Edrich Upper... I can't believe I let them go when I moved to the US :(
    You had season tickets at Lord’s and let them go? :open_mouth: :open_mouth:
    I’m sure your father would have volunteered to hold on to them while you were away!

    Middlesex membership gets you a season ticket at Lords. I used to get the country member rate because I live in the Midlands. It cost me around £100 a year. That got me entry to all domestic games and a seat in the pavillion anybtime I wanted (as long as I wore a tie). It was the best value sporting ticket I ever bought, by a country mile.

    Watching Middlesex is not my idea of fun,... down the road at the Oval is much more entertaining.
    Chelmsford every time. Close to public transport and very easy walking distance of the increasingly vibrant city centre.

    but the cricket.. not so good
    Current county champions. Although admittedly that’s not goiing to be the case this year.
    Impossible

    Middx are in Div 2. They were relegated last yr IIRC and were champions the year before.. unless I am living in a parallel universe?
    I think he was referring to Essex, not Middlesex.

    Incidentally, watching Middlesex's complacency about how easy it would be to get promoted out of division two given how rubbish all the other sides are take such a brutal hammering has been quite funny.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 21,568
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions, taking huge losses in the process.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
    It seems highly unlikely that Musk has secured the $70bn needed to take Tesla private at $420 per share. To me it looks very much like a case of price manipulation intended to burn the shorts. If he has the money lined up then a formal offer would have been made, not a throwaway comment on twatter.
    If he’s not got the cash behind him (Saudis?) then surely he’s in a whole world of trouble with the SEC, who tend to take rather a dim view of such blatant market manipulation? Not to mention the hedgies, who’d happily sue his ass for billions!
    Yes, it could end up being one of the most costly tweets if all time. I seriously doubt the Saudis are going to pitch in $70bn, or that the US government would allow such a sale to proceed.
    That latter point is the one that makes me wonder what the f is going on. I can't see the US government - yet alone a Trump one - allowing Tesla to be essentially sold to the Saudis - even if Musk somehow get massive or majority voting rights.

    So if I'm right about that - and it is a big conditional - then who else has the money?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 17,015

    IanB2 said:

    Top Tories are queuing up to have a go at Boris. Pickles right now on Today is the second of the programme, calling for him to apologise. Aside from the issue itself this underlines his lack of support in the parliamentary party.

    The point is that Boris was quite entitled to say what he said and his refusal to apologise for it makes it play even better with the voters. We know that Remain central are scared to death of Boris and this is why - he is saying something that the vast majority agree with whilst the PM is just playing at being politically correct. May is right to be scared of Boris. If she thinks telling him off on this topic is going to help her, then she is delusional.

    I used to live in Saudi Arabia with my parents. My mother never went out of the house except with my father, and always wore long clothes that covered all skin below the neck. It never occurred to us to have her swanning around in a bikini because it would be racist for the Saudis to object. It is their country, their culture and we respected it without question.

    Burkas are an insult to the British culture and an affront to gender equality. I don't think we should ban them, but we have every right to feel that people that wear them are offending us. If pointing this out offends them, tough.
    Boris is playing an odd game in my opinion. Surely the game now is to play nicey to the first phase of the selectorate, which is Tory MPs. As soon as put forward to be one of the two in the members vote, then you you tack as far right as you think you need to pick up all the kippers who seem to have joined Tories in recent months.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 17,015
    edited August 8
    The only way it makes sense is if Boris thinks he can make himself so popular with the public, that Tory MPs dare not not make him leader.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 19,989
    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions, taking huge losses in the process.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
    It seems highly unlikely that Musk has secured the $70bn needed to take Tesla private at $420 per share. To me it looks very much like a case of price manipulation intended to burn the shorts. If he has the money lined up then a formal offer would have been made, not a throwaway comment on twatter.
    If he’s not got the cash behind him (Saudis?) then surely he’s in a whole world of trouble with the SEC, who tend to take rather a dim view of such blatant market manipulation? Not to mention the hedgies, who’d happily sue his ass for billions!
    Yes, it could end up being one of the most costly tweets if all time. I seriously doubt the Saudis are going to pitch in $70bn, or that the US government would allow such a sale to proceed.
    Does he actually need the full value though, given that he’s offering existing shareholders to keep their shares in the company? So if 80% or 90% of them stay on, with the hedgies selling up, he’ll only(!) need $7bn or $14bn in cash to take the company private.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 6,340

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Elon Musk: Business genius or playing with fire?
    https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/07/news/companies/elon-musk-tesla-private/index.html

    If the rumours about the amount of hedgies short-selling Tesla stock are correct, it could turn out to be a stroke of genius, but if he hasn’t got all his ducks in a row he’s going to have half of Wall St after his head!

    The shorties have already been immensely squeezed given Tesla was around 250 the last time I remember looking at the price
    Indeed. It’s going to one to watch today, the rumours are that there’s very little liquidity of shares on the market, compared to the size of the outstanding short positions - as happened with VW and Porsche playing games a few years back. Those holding the shorts are going to have to buy at almost any price to cover their positions, taking huge losses in the process.

    Musk is playing a seriously high stakes game, but he’s clearly fed up of all the negative press coming from the hedgies, and having to structure his whole operation around quarterly reporting deadlines rather than simply getting on with business. I say good luck to him!
    It seems highly unlikely that Musk has secured the $70bn needed to take Tesla private at $420 per share. To me it looks very much like a case of price manipulation intended to burn the shorts. If he has the money lined up then a formal offer would have been made, not a throwaway comment on twatter.
    If he’s not got the cash behind him (Saudis?) then surely he’s in a whole world of trouble with the SEC, who tend to take rather a dim view of such blatant market manipulation? Not to mention the hedgies, who’d happily sue his ass for billions!
    Yes, it could end up being one of the most costly tweets if all time. I seriously doubt the Saudis are going to pitch in $70bn, or that the US government would allow such a sale to proceed.
    That latter point is the one that makes me wonder what the f is going on. I can't see the US government - yet alone a Trump one - allowing Tesla to be essentially sold to the Saudis - even if Musk somehow get massive or majority voting rights.

    So if I'm right about that - and it is a big conditional - then who else has the money?
    Another US tech billionaire/company?
    Weren't Apple interested in cars?
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