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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » That YouGov CON 4% lead poll looks very much out of line

SystemSystem Posts: 11,019
edited August 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » That YouGov CON 4% lead poll looks very much out of line

One of the problems with polling analysis is that the outliers tend to get much more publicity and attention than those that are broadly in line with everybody else. We saw that with the latest YouGov poll showeding Labour down at its lowest level since the general election four Points behind the Conservatives.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    Remember the old days of the daily YouGov at 10pm.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,990

    Remember the old days of the daily YouGov at 10pm.

    Or Lord Ashcroft's marginal efforts.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,296
    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,334
    Yes, I've not gloated over the Labour leads or mourned over the Tory leads. I think that floating voters are pretty disillusioned with both sides and saying "I suppose [whatever I did last time]" without much enthusiasm, but they're not really focused on it. Why should they be with so much in flux?
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,957
    So broadly tied. Within a couple of points of each other. Been like that since GE. No reason to panic or celebrate. Hung Parliament again if a vote happens any time soon.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,990
    TOPPING said:

    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament

    Really? Linky please.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Will Fox and Crabb be running again ?

    I cannot see Crabb running again - he is far too discredited even in his own constituency.
    I forgot he even ran - any particular reason he is discredited even inhis own constituency?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    TGOHF said:
    I don't particularly see why a failure to declare a trip would bring him down. Why would that, even if he should have done it in this case and it is a breach, tip his base into not backing him? The most passionate clearly see backing him as a moral imperative.
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    Yes, I've not gloated over the Labour leads or mourned over the Tory leads. I think that floating voters are pretty disillusioned with both sides and saying "I suppose [whatever I did last time]" without much enthusiasm, but they're not really focused on it. Why should they be with so much in flux?

    Sensible as ever Nick
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I don't particularly see why a failure to declare a trip would bring him down. Why would that, even if he should have done it in this case and it is a breach, tip his base into not backing him? The most passionate clearly see backing him as a moral imperative.
    He could get banned from the HoC, couldn’t he?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,577
    Manafort defense rests without presenting any evidence, or calling him to the stand:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/14/paul-manafort-trial-day-11-live-coverage/
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I don't particularly see why a failure to declare a trip would bring him down. Why would that, even if he should have done it in this case and it is a breach, tip his base into not backing him? The most passionate clearly see backing him as a moral imperative.
    He could get banned from the HoC, couldn’t he?
    For a period. Embarrassing, to be sure, as Ian Paisley Junior knows, but I don't see why that would concern his core support in the party to the point of putting him under pressure.
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    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Will Fox and Crabb be running again ?

    I cannot see Crabb running again - he is far too discredited even in his own constituency.
    I forgot he even ran - any particular reason he is discredited even inhis own constituency?
    There were allegations as to his behaviour but he was cleared of misconduct last December.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-42462431
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    "Must be an outlier" :lol:
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,266
    You mean you don’t think that Mrs May should be calling another election? Oh come on, think of the betting opportunities.
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    TOPPING said:

    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament

    Really? Linky please.
    BJO was caught up in the Tunisia beach terrorist attack (or at least he told us he was).
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    Remember the old days of the daily YouGov at 10pm.

    Don't forget the weekly ELBOW in the Sunil on Sunday :lol:
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
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    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Will Fox and Crabb be running again ?

    I cannot see Crabb running again - he is far too discredited even in his own constituency.
    I forgot he even ran - any particular reason he is discredited even inhis own constituency?
    He has presented himself as a devout Christian and a big guy in the local church yet was caught out sending sex texts to an interviewee. He was also a 'flipper' in the expenses scandal.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    TOPPING said:

    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament

    Really? Linky please.
    It's a hypothetical question. BJO was in the middle of the 2015 attack and posted live updates on PB as he was barricaded in his hotel room with his family.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/06/26/guest-slot-social-media-and-shy-rightwingers/
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,990

    TOPPING said:

    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament

    Really? Linky please.
    BJO was caught up in the Tunisia beach terrorist attack (or at least he told us he was).
    I have no reason to doubt that happened. But what's the connection with Corbyn's mess?
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    edited August 2018

    Scott_P said:
    It's too late, the Cult are so tied up now in keeping going the idea that this was a smear, they literally cannot change their minds.

    https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1029323094308134912
    Same can be said of the smearers TBF
    Can you define smearer? Is that anyone who doesn’t criticise Corbyn? What exactly is a correct amount of criticism before it becomes a smear? Is it still a smear if you are point8ng out a fact?
    Can you define what you consider a fact

    A fact like he is a Commie Spy?

    A fact like he is an Anti Semite?

    A fact like the Munich bombers are buried in Libya not Tunisia?

    I consider facts things that he himself has said and things of which there is photographic evidence.

    I don’t know what the Munich bombing is but the Black September terrorists who took Israeli Olympians hostage and maimed, tortured and killed them. You keep on saying they are buried in Libya and I have no reason to disbelieve you. The mastermind behind the attacks is buried in Tunis in a grave upon which Corbyn placed a wreath to ‘honour’ him.

    I’ve never said Corbyn was a communist spy.

    I do believe he is anti-Semitic. But it is not a fact. I think his actions show this but perhaps he is a misunderstood man of peace who keeps on talking to the enemies of Israel and honouring them thinking this will somehow bring about peace
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    I wonder if the Moonies are as happy with their leadership?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    Scott_P said:
    It's too late, the Cult are so tied up now in keeping going the idea that this was a smear, they literally cannot change their minds.

    https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1029323094308134912
    Same can be said of the smearers TBF
    Can you define smearer? Is that anyone who doesn’t criticise Corbyn? What exactly is a correct amount of criticism before it becomes a smear? Is it still a smear if you are point8ng out a fact?
    Can you define what you consider a fact

    A fact like he is a Commie Spy?

    A fact like he is an Anti Semite?

    A fact like the Munich bombers are buried in Libya not Tunisia?

    I consider facts things that he himself has said and things of which there is photographic evidence.

    Nope, those can still be smears. For Corbyn. And Trump.
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    spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,302
    The thing that gets me when it comes to the 'conservative advantage' in the seats is that because of the nature of the elections (the swing is not uniform) is that there is a structural swing at a national and regional level. given the failure of the last boundary review and the early election there are now three results on the same boundaries.

    This gives people a way (using http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/) a mechanism of understanding as to what this structural swing has been. if you pick a set of percentages for each party (it doesn't matter which you pick) and use them on all three sets of numbers you see quite how big the structural advantage was in favour of Labour in 2010 (which was still present from the 1997 and 2001 TB wins).
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Blimey. I have finally watched the PA interview with JC. It has to be one of the most patronising things I have ever seen as a TV clip or interview.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,990

    TOPPING said:

    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament

    Really? Linky please.
    It's a hypothetical question. BJO was in the middle of the 2015 attack and posted live updates on PB as he was barricaded in his hotel room with his family.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/06/26/guest-slot-social-media-and-shy-rightwingers/
    Yeah I was on that thread at the time. I just didn't read the question as a hypothetical, but as if it was something new. P'haps my mistake.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    I wonder if the Moonies are as happy with their leadership?
    The point was however much someone loves what Labour was, it isn't what is now. Some are very happy about that, some very unhappy about it. He's doing his part to resist what it now is, I guess, but it's not like Corbyn is not doing what the party wants, that he is not adored much more than he is loathed, he knows what it has become and why.

    More people should jump ship to other parties or found new movements as parties stretch beyond even their broad tribes of support, it is a shame that is so difficult in our system, as it seems to make a lot of people stick around out of tribal loyalty and be increasingly despondent about things as a result.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,836
    One should expect to see outliers from time to time. I agree that the parties are essentially tied on a little under 40%.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    TOPPING said:

    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament

    Really? Linky please.
    It's a hypothetical question. BJO was in the middle of the 2015 attack and posted live updates on PB as he was barricaded in his hotel room with his family.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/06/26/guest-slot-social-media-and-shy-rightwingers/
    Yeah I was on that thread at the time. I just didn't read the question as a hypothetical, but as if it was something new. P'haps my mistake.
    I think TOPPING was just following up on something I asked on the previous thread.

    Still waiting to hear BJO's thoughts...
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    That is because they are deluded sheep.

    And believe me, one day they will look up from the grassy fields and realise they have midwifed a f***ing disaster for this country.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    That is because they are deluded sheep.

    And believe me, one day they will look up from the grassy fields and realise they have midwifed a f***ing disaster for this country.
    Perhaps sometime during his first term as PM.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    I would have at least a tiny ounce of respect for Jezza if he just came out and said, look, yes, I have supported PLO, Palistinians etc etc over Israel every time. That is my politics. My policy and my belief. If you don't agree, vote for the other chap/chapess.

  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    kle4 said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    I wonder if the Moonies are as happy with their leadership?
    The point was however much someone loves what Labour was, it isn't what is now. Some are very happy about that, some very unhappy about it. He's doing his part to resist what it now is, I guess, but it's not like Corbyn is not doing what the party wants, that he is not adored much more than he is loathed, he knows what it has become and why.

    More people should jump ship to other parties or found new movements as parties stretch beyond even their broad tribes of support, it is a shame that is so difficult in our system, as it seems to make a lot of people stick around out of tribal loyalty and be increasingly despondent about things as a result.
    Agreed.

    I really feel for the Ian Austin’s of this world. I’m sure I’d disagree with the bloke a lot, but, I’m sure he’s trying to do his best for all of us as he sees it. I’m sure there are countless other Labour members just like him. Genuine, good people at heart.

    However, we’ve long jumped the shark. JC seems to have a cult for whom he can do no wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence. It’s bloody scary.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    That is because they are deluded sheep.

    And believe me, one day they will look up from the grassy fields and realise they have midwifed a f***ing disaster for this country.
    Perhaps sometime during his first term as PM.
    Looks that way.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    I wonder if the Moonies are as happy with their leadership?
    The point was however much someone loves what Labour was, it isn't what is now. Some are very happy about that, some very unhappy about it. He's doing his part to resist what it now is, I guess, but it's not like Corbyn is not doing what the party wants, that he is not adored much more than he is loathed, he knows what it has become and why.

    More people should jump ship to other parties or found new movements as parties stretch beyond even their broad tribes of support, it is a shame that is so difficult in our system, as it seems to make a lot of people stick around out of tribal loyalty and be increasingly despondent about things as a result.
    Agreed.

    I really feel for the Ian Austin’s of this world. I’m sure I’d disagree with the bloke a lot, but, I’m sure he’s trying to do his best for all of us as he sees it. I’m sure there are countless other Labour members just like him. Genuine, good people at heart.

    However, we’ve long jumped the shark. JC seems to have a cult for whom he can do no wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence. It’s bloody scary.
    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,296

    TOPPING said:

    Looking forward to hearing about BJO's view on Jezza inviting the attackers he was caught up with to parliament

    Really? Linky please.
    It's a hypothetical question. BJO was in the middle of the 2015 attack and posted live updates on PB as he was barricaded in his hotel room with his family.

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/06/26/guest-slot-social-media-and-shy-rightwingers/
    Yeah I was on that thread at the time. I just didn't read the question as a hypothetical, but as if it was something new. P'haps my mistake.
    I think TOPPING was just following up on something I asked on the previous thread.

    Still waiting to hear BJO's thoughts...
    Yes and yes.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,925
    OHHHHH Jeremy Corbyn
    Ohhhhh Jeremy Corbyn
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,274

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    That is because they are deluded sheep.

    And believe me, one day they will look up from the grassy fields and realise they have midwifed a f***ing disaster for this country.
    and we should at least resolve one disaster before contemplating another.
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    PaganPagan Posts: 259
    @bigjohnowls I am voting enthusiastically for corbyn next election but then I want the country to burn..... pause for thought maybe
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    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    kle4 said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    I wonder if the Moonies are as happy with their leadership?
    The point was however much someone loves what Labour was, it isn't what is now. Some are very happy about that, some very unhappy about it. He's doing his part to resist what it now is, I guess, but it's not like Corbyn is not doing what the party wants, that he is not adored much more than he is loathed, he knows what it has become and why.

    More people should jump ship to other parties or found new movements as parties stretch beyond even their broad tribes of support, it is a shame that is so difficult in our system, as it seems to make a lot of people stick around out of tribal loyalty and be increasingly despondent about things as a result.
    Agreed.

    I really feel for the Ian Austin’s of this world. I’m sure I’d disagree with the bloke a lot, but, I’m sure he’s trying to do his best for all of us as he sees it. I’m sure there are countless other Labour members just like him. Genuine, good people at heart.

    However, we’ve long jumped the shark. JC seems to have a cult for whom he can do no wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence. It’s bloody scary.
    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!
    No I don’t think the country deserves that choice!

    It needs a very boring 2020’s.
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    Pagan said:

    @bigjohnowls I am voting enthusiastically for corbyn next election but then I want the country to burn..... pause for thought maybe

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDAA5o6xMc4
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    American betting news - Dems in trouble in a senate race they absolutely should not be in trouble in

    https://twitter.com/EsotericCD/status/1029394105183465473?s=19
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    kle4 said:

    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!

    That is precisely why the Tories must resist the temptation of selecting Boris, we should all be heading in the oposite direction to Trump, not adopting his ways. We could really do with some straight-laced, competent, and somewhat boring leadership right now.

    It is not even Trump that worries me the most, but the prospect that Trump may evade justice, and then future politicians — without Trump's baggage and stupidity — follow in his path. Imagine another Nixon in the 2020s, what would he be able to get away with?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,114
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    It's too late, the Cult are so tied up now in keeping going the idea that this was a smear, they literally cannot change their minds.

    https://twitter.com/Rachael_Swindon/status/1029323094308134912
    Same can be said of the smearers TBF
    Can you define smearer? Is that anyone who doesn’t criticise Corbyn? What exactly is a correct amount of criticism before it becomes a smear? Is it still a smear if you are point8ng out a fact?
    Can you define what you consider a fact

    A fact like he is a Commie Spy?

    A fact like he is an Anti Semite?

    A fact like the Munich bombers are buried in Libya not Tunisia?

    I consider facts things that he himself has said and things of which there is photographic evidence.

    Nope, those can still be smears. For Corbyn. And Trump.
    It’s funny when I started visiting this site in the late 2000s (back in the days of Tim and Rod Crosby) someone would post something and as an aid to discussion someone would post some other facts and a discussion would ensue. You may be accused of being selective on your evidence but every time you posted something you wouldn’t be told that none of it was true.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!

    That is precisely why the Tories must resist the temptation of selecting Boris, we should all be heading in the oposite direction to Trump, not adopting his ways. We could really do with some straight-laced, competent, and somewhat boring leadership right now.
    Problem is that was part of the appeal of May back when it was presumed Boris would be her opponent. Her competence levels have taken a hit, understandably and reasonably, but she is still understated and somewhat boring, and her lack of charisma, flair and campaigning chops was perceived as making her vulnerable to Corbyn, so my gut would say the Tories will want a Boris type. And if the non Boris' try to mimic him, he wins that game.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    I do wish the LDs would wake up and get their own weirdly devoted fanbase thing going with one of their MPs, they must be feeling left out.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    kle4 said:

    I do wish the LDs would wake up and get their own weirdly devoted fanbase thing going with one of their MPs, they must be feeling left out.

    The LDs are having a secret meeting. Shhhh
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited August 2018
    His visit, as a backbencher, was part of the proceedings of the International Conference on Monitoring the Palestinian Political and Legal Situation in the Light of Israeli Aggression. Without wishing to sound flippant, there is a clue there in the very title of the conference about the general tenor of the event. Mr Netanyahu was unlikely to show up as an after-dinner speaker

    Bit sarky there, The Independent!

    Is this true though?

    The real question – one that underpins virtually all of the controversies in recent weeks about antisemitism – is this: what is Mr Corbyn’s policy towards Israel? This is what he needs to make a speech about, not so much the routine form of words about antisemitism he mouths. He badly needs to clear this up

    I mean, it is ultimately what his supporters claim all this for the past two years has been about, but is there that much to clear up?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,577
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!

    That is precisely why the Tories must resist the temptation of selecting Boris, we should all be heading in the oposite direction to Trump, not adopting his ways. We could really do with some straight-laced, competent, and somewhat boring leadership right now.

    It is not even Trump that worries me the most, but the prospect that Trump may evade justice, and then future politicians — without Trump's baggage and stupidity — follow in his path. Imagine another Nixon in the 2020s, what would he be able to get away with?
    Trump is another Nixon.
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    welshowl said:

    kle4 said:

    It's become a party of the many not the few, Ian, time to get on board, the members are happy enough with the direction and the explanations of the leader's office.
    I wonder if the Moonies are as happy with their leadership?
    The point was however much someone loves what Labour was, it isn't what is now. Some are very happy about that, some very unhappy about it. He's doing his part to resist what it now is, I guess, but it's not like Corbyn is not doing what the party wants, that he is not adored much more than he is loathed, he knows what it has become and why.

    More people should jump ship to other parties or found new movements as parties stretch beyond even their broad tribes of support, it is a shame that is so difficult in our system, as it seems to make a lot of people stick around out of tribal loyalty and be increasingly despondent about things as a result.
    Agreed.

    I really feel for the Ian Austin’s of this world. I’m sure I’d disagree with the bloke a lot, but, I’m sure he’s trying to do his best for all of us as he sees it. I’m sure there are countless other Labour members just like him. Genuine, good people at heart.

    However, we’ve long jumped the shark. JC seems to have a cult for whom he can do no wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence. It’s bloody scary.
    I too feel sorry for moderate labour members and MPs. They clearly love the party and it’s values, and why should they give up on the party because it has been overrun. What will be the tipping point?
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    Vitriol? Or just taking the mickey cause she can’t add up?
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    May has spoken out quite clearly about returning civility to political discourse particularly in the treatment of other women in politics.

    But we are talking about Labour abuse here. And it would seem you have no response as all you do is try to divert attention.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    Vitriol? Or just taking the mickey cause she can’t add up?
    No, vitriol, often racist in nature - I saw multiple times on Facebook during the election people posting a graphic of a gorilla with the caption "Forget the London look, get the Diane Abbott look!", in between sharing links from the Tories.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!

    That is precisely why the Tories must resist the temptation of selecting Boris, we should all be heading in the oposite direction to Trump, not adopting his ways. We could really do with some straight-laced, competent, and somewhat boring leadership right now.

    It is not even Trump that worries me the most, but the prospect that Trump may evade justice, and then future politicians — without Trump's baggage and stupidity — follow in his path. Imagine another Nixon in the 2020s, what would he be able to get away with?
    Trump is another Nixon.
    Is he going to win every state bar Massachusetts when he is re elected for a second term then?
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,266
    Alistair said:

    American betting news - Dems in trouble in a senate race they absolutely should not be in trouble in

    https://twitter.com/EsotericCD/status/1029394105183465473?s=19

    Clearly a lizard person. QED.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,577
    brendan16 said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!

    That is precisely why the Tories must resist the temptation of selecting Boris, we should all be heading in the oposite direction to Trump, not adopting his ways. We could really do with some straight-laced, competent, and somewhat boring leadership right now.

    It is not even Trump that worries me the most, but the prospect that Trump may evade justice, and then future politicians — without Trump's baggage and stupidity — follow in his path. Imagine another Nixon in the 2020s, what would he be able to get away with?
    Trump is another Nixon.
    Is he going to win every state bar Massachusetts when he is re elected for a second term then?
    Nope.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    May has spoken out quite clearly about returning civility to political discourse particularly in the treatment of other women in politics.

    But we are talking about Labour abuse here. And it would seem you have no response as all you do is try to divert attention.
    LOL at you trying to say May mouthing some platitudes about "civility in political discourse" is a substantial response. If that's the standards, then I can say Corbyn has said his own platitudes about "kinder, gentler politics" and "no room for personal abuse". The platitudes from either of them have not come close to specifically calling out their own supporters for abuse, something which you're demanding of Corbyn yet hypocritically not demanding of May.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited August 2018
    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I don't particularly see why a failure to declare a trip would bring him down. Why would that, even if he should have done it in this case and it is a breach, tip his base into not backing him? The most passionate clearly see backing him as a moral imperative.
    I'm not sure quite why Corbyn should have declared a visit to Tunisia? More worrying is the 80% of the Tory Party who are 'Friends of Israel' if this story is to be believed. It makes the influence of the NRA on the Republican Party look inadequate. Interesting to know how many parliamentarians of both parties who got paid for hospitality.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-tories-never-condemn-the-naked-racism-of-benjamin-netanyahu-they-should/

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited August 2018
    I don't know that it is worth creating slogans in this day and age - I cannot look at them without picturing them adjusted to be mocking from some meme, or else so pretentious about the superior morals of the party in question.

    Take 'For the many not the few' for instance. Not a terrible slogan by any means, in sentiment or punchiness, but now it is so easily changed to 'not the jew', or else I just cannot help but reflect that the Tories got more support from the many in 2017, 2015 and 2010, which are apparently the wrong many to be for.

    Then you have 'Strong and stable', which is again not terrible, it is a simple pitch portraying a solid message of competence. But given how the election went and all the chaos in the year afterwards, the Tories won't be able to use one like that again.

    I see from this page Traditional Unionist Voice went with the slogan 'Drain the Swamp'. Plagiarisers.

    The Alliance Party's 'Change direction' just makes me think 'in which way?', and to think of that LD ad (which I did like actually) about looking left, then right, then going straight on.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.K._political_slogans#2017_general_election
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549
    Nigelb said:

    Trump is another Nixon.

    Morally maybe, but intellectually and politically he was quite a different character. I think someone like Nixon would potentially do very well in US politics after Trump has lowered the bar for acceptable behaviour to an all-time low.

  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    brendan16 said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Look on the bright side, maybe Boris will take over the Tories and try to develop his own Trump style support like Corbyn, what a contest that would then be!

    That is precisely why the Tories must resist the temptation of selecting Boris, we should all be heading in the oposite direction to Trump, not adopting his ways. We could really do with some straight-laced, competent, and somewhat boring leadership right now.

    It is not even Trump that worries me the most, but the prospect that Trump may evade justice, and then future politicians — without Trump's baggage and stupidity — follow in his path. Imagine another Nixon in the 2020s, what would he be able to get away with?
    Trump is another Nixon.
    Is he going to win every state bar Massachusetts when he is re elected for a second term then?
    Yes, I was wondering about that.

    Plus, whatever his faults Nixon was a politician, interested in ideas and policy and debate.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I don't particularly see why a failure to declare a trip would bring him down. Why would that, even if he should have done it in this case and it is a breach, tip his base into not backing him? The most passionate clearly see backing him as a moral imperative.
    I'm not sure quite why Corbyn should have declared a visit to Tunisia?

    www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-tories-never-condemn-the-naked-racism-of-benjamin-netanyahu-they-should/
    I don't know if the trip met the requirements to be declared or not, I was hypothesising based on the premise of the story that he should have done under the rules - I don't think his base will care about an administrative cock up, even one which can result in being banned from the Commons for a period.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    kle4 said:

    I do wish the LDs would wake up and get their own weirdly devoted fanbase thing going with one of their MPs, they must be feeling left out.

    :lol:
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited August 2018
    Alistair said:

    American betting news - Dems in trouble in a senate race they absolutely should not be in trouble in

    https://twitter.com/EsotericCD/status/1029394105183465473?s=19

    RIck Scott is a popular Governor - against a 3 term Washington insider. It's not that surprising really he is ahead. When it comes to the Senate personal popularity often trumps Party and the apparent national trend

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    Vitriol? Or just taking the mickey cause she can’t add up?
    No, vitriol, often racist in nature - I saw multiple times on Facebook during the election people posting a graphic of a gorilla with the caption "Forget the London look, get the Diane Abbott look!", in between sharing links from the Tories.
    She does apparently get a lot of racist abuse, which is terrible and uncalled for. I have a low opinion of Abbott, but she has to put up with a lot of horrible crap, I have no doubt.
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I don't particularly see why a failure to declare a trip would bring him down. Why would that, even if he should have done it in this case and it is a breach, tip his base into not backing him? The most passionate clearly see backing him as a moral imperative.
    I'm not sure quite why Corbyn should have declared a visit to Tunisia? More worrying is the 80% of the Tory Party who are 'Friends of Israel' if this story is to be believed. It makes the influence of the NRA on the Republican Party look inadequate. Interesting to know how many parliamentarians of both parties who got paid for hospitality.

    www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-tories-never-condemn-the-naked-racism-of-benjamin-netanyahu-they-should/
    FFS Roger - if he accepted hospitality over £300 he is required to declare in the register of interests.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,296
    Roger said:

    kle4 said:

    TGOHF said:
    I don't particularly see why a failure to declare a trip would bring him down. Why would that, even if he should have done it in this case and it is a breach, tip his base into not backing him? The most passionate clearly see backing him as a moral imperative.
    I'm not sure quite why Corbyn should have declared a visit to Tunisia? More worrying is the 80% of the Tory Party who are 'Friends of Israel' if this story is to be believed. It makes the influence of the NRA on the Republican Party look inadequate. Interesting to know how many parliamentarians of both parties who got paid for hospitality.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/the-tories-never-condemn-the-naked-racism-of-benjamin-netanyahu-they-should/

    Roger surely you realise that "they" control the Conservative Party??

    I mean duh.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    May has spoken out quite clearly about returning civility to political discourse particularly in the treatment of other women in politics.

    But we are talking about Labour abuse here. And it would seem you have no response as all you do is try to divert attention.
    LOL at you trying to say May mouthing some platitudes about "civility in political discourse" is a substantial response. If that's the standards, then I can say Corbyn has said his own platitudes about "kinder, gentler politics" and "no room for personal abuse". The platitudes from either of them have not come close to specifically calling out their own supporters for abuse, something which you're demanding of Corbyn yet hypocritically not demanding of May.
    Another attempt at diverting attention from the matter under discussion.

    I get that you are clearly embarrassed by the state of affairs within the Labour Party. But these things have to be confronted otherwise the situation will never change.

    Corbyn could have set in motion proper disciplinary processes to remove those guilty of abuse from the party - but he didn't.

    So before we move on to other parties - how about sticking to the matter under discussion?
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    Vitriol? Or just taking the mickey cause she can’t add up?
    No, vitriol, often racist in nature - I saw multiple times on Facebook during the election people posting a graphic of a gorilla with the caption "Forget the London look, get the Diane Abbott look!", in between sharing links from the Tories.
    She does apparently get a lot of racist abuse, which is terrible and uncalled for. I have a low opinion of Abbott, but she has to put up with a lot of horrible crap, I have no doubt.
    Does she really put up with more than the type of vitriol directed towards Thatcher? Have any Tory MPs said she should be lynched? Is this not just the twitter / guido internet nutter brigade who abuse everyone and everything?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Williamson on Newsnight. This should be interesting
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,304

    Remember the old days of the daily YouGov at 10pm.

    The 2010 GE campaign was great:

    ‘Wibbly wobbly Tory bottoms’

    ‘Cameron! Pledge a referendum on EU membership. NOW!’

    ‘Osborne has to go.’

    ‘That Michael Crick really is a ...’




  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    ... and straight on to smears within one second.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited August 2018

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    The bile and spite coming from the cult towards Austin is to be expected in these strange, strange times.

    But it is not what anyone should accept in a modern democracy.

    Labour cannot rescue itself from this swamp of bigots and haters.
    Yeah, because no Tory activists direct abuse to politicians they don't like, either on their own side (Anna Soubry) or on the opposition side (Diane Abbott). No siree.
    At no point have I made any comment about this being confined to one political party or movement.

    However Labour's problems in this area are being driven by the culture encouraged by the leadership and his support network. Corbyn arrived claiming to represent a kinder, gentler politics. And we have got the reverse. He has allowed the Labour Party to become toxic with hate.

    He has taken no real steps to prevent his supporters from behaving in this nasty way. Indeed he seems to refuse to even acknowledge it as a problem.

    There will always be a certain level of abuse in politics - but Labour has taken it to new depths. Corbyn, Momentum and the rest of the fellow travellers are completely responsible for this breakdown.
    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?
    Vitriol? Or just taking the mickey cause she can’t add up?
    No, vitriol, often racist in nature - I saw multiple times on Facebook during the election people posting a graphic of a gorilla with the caption "Forget the London look, get the Diane Abbott look!", in between sharing links from the Tories.
    She does apparently get a lot of racist abuse, which is terrible and uncalled for. I have a low opinion of Abbott, but she has to put up with a lot of horrible crap, I have no doubt.
    Does she really put up with more than the type of vitriol directed towards Thatcher? Have any Tory MPs said she should be lynched? Is this not just the twitter / guido internet nutter brigade who abuse everyone and everything?
    In order:

    I have no idea, nor do I see why that's relevant, it isn't a contest to see gets attacked more, I just noted she does put up with a lot of it.

    I would hope not, nor did I ever say any did.

    In part, of course, but she gets a lot and I can easily believe it is more likely to be racist in nature than others. I didn't suggest others don't receive abuse.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311

    Williamson on Newsnight. This should be interesting

    I just don’t get how Corbyn admits something and it’s still a smear
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,057

    kle4 said:

    I do wish the LDs would wake up and get their own weirdly devoted fanbase thing going with one of their MPs, they must be feeling left out.

    :lol:
    They must have thought they had the magic grandpa vote sewn up.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Williamson, "making heavy weather of this".

    2+2 = 4.

    "Oh I think you are making heavy weather of basic arithmetic there. What about 5? 5 might be right. It appears to me that 5 might be right."
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208

    Williamson on Newsnight. This should be interesting

    I just don’t get how Corbyn admits something and it’s still a smear
    There is a time delay between the leaders office and the Ministry of Truth, and an even longer time delay between the Ministry and the outer reaches like Derby.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,725
    edited August 2018

    Williamson on Newsnight. This should be interesting

    I just don’t get how Corbyn admits something and it’s still a smear
    It requires some remarkable mental gymnastics. People who still back the leadership with unyielding passion even as they take a position contrary to the official position of that leadership, are most baffling to me as they are calling their own heroes liars, but the cynic in me suggests they are expected and very useful for those leaderships. They can backtrack, or apologise, or clarify, change position, to mollify critics to an extent, show some humility or acknowledgement of issues, even as those who support them the most continue to express rage and hostility at any suggestion of a problem. They can count on that backing, and if they are questioned about those supporters they can say 'Look, we've made our position clear, we're not responsible for that'.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited August 2018




    Another attempt at diverting attention from the matter under discussion.

    I get that you are clearly embarrassed by the state of affairs within the Labour Party. But these things have to be confronted otherwise the situation will never change.

    Corbyn could have set in motion proper disciplinary processes to remove those guilty of abuse from the party - but he didn't.

    So before we move on to other parties - how about sticking to the matter under discussion?

    Why hasn't Theresa May "tackled" the people abusing Abbott and other Labour politicians, or set in motion proper disciplinary processes for those people?

    You can call it diverting attention all you want, but if you don't want to answer that question then I'm going to keep pointing out you're a hypocrite.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    I'm getting confused about Corbyn's wreath-laying activities. Sometimes it's 1992, sometimes 1985, sometimes 2012.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Williamson totally destroyed by Evan.

    Utterly.

    He suddenly has lost words.

    I wonder why.

    BBC - back of the net!!!!
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    Williamson is an utter disgrace.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    Scott_P said:
    Pointless. Like their fellow post-truth nut, Trump, the Cult don't believe their own ears and eyes anymore.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,208
    AndyJS said:

    I'm getting confused about Corbyn's wreath-laying activities. Sometimes it's 1992, sometimes 1985, sometimes 2012.

    I think these is the dates of when the individuals in question died in terror acts
  • Options
    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    edited August 2018
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:



    What steps did Theresa May and the Conservative leadership take to prevent Tory supporters directing vitriolic abuse towards Diane Abbott?

    Vitriol? Or just taking the mickey cause she can’t add up?
    No, vitriol, often racist in nature - I saw multiple times on Facebook during the election people posting a graphic of a gorilla with the caption "Forget the London look, get the Diane Abbott look!", in between sharing links from the Tories.
    She does apparently get a lot of racist abuse, which is terrible and uncalled for. I have a low opinion of Abbott, but she has to put up with a lot of horrible crap, I have no doubt.
    Does she really put up with more than the type of vitriol directed towards Thatcher? Have any Tory MPs said she should be lynched? Is this not just the twitter / guido internet nutter brigade who abuse everyone and everything?
    In order:

    I have no idea, nor do I see why that's relevant, it isn't a contest to see gets attacked more.

    I would hope not, nor did I ever say any did.

    In part, of course, but she gets a lot and I can easily believe it is more likely to be racist in nature than others. I didn't suggest others don't receive abuse.
    All I am saying is that just being online draws abuse. Our town has a Facebook page and a guy pointed out that you couldn’t return to The Aldi car park within a few hours or you would get a ticket. He shared it to help people out, and what he got was about ten posts calling him an idiot. The organisation my wife works for often posts about local projects - good things for the local community, and it is so disheartening to see all the critical posts.

    When we talk about vitriol Labour conference sold t-shirts about celebrating Thatchers death. Shadow chancellor McDonnell said a fellow MP should be lynched (incitement to violence). Most of the right wing nutters migrated to UKIP as evidenced by the frankly idiotic and nonsensical post by Batten today. Aaaaaarrggh blockquote fail
This discussion has been closed.