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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: How long will Trump last (and who will run against him)? Plus, how does public opinion on Brexit look ahead of party conference season?

Polling Matters returns for an extended episode exploring the latest goings-on in Washington DC and what a recent avalanche of Brexit related polling tells us about public opinion as we head into a crucial party conference season.

Read the full story here

viewcode

Firts!

Sunil_Prasannan

Second like Corbyn

RobD

A Douglas!

williamglenn

"Jacob Rees-Mogg is to Ireland what Donald Trump is to Mexico"

https://www.joe.ie/politics/jacob-rees-mogg-ireland-donald-trump-mexico-638643

oxfordsimon

So Williamson isn't prepared to engage with a fellow Labour MP

What a f**king mess

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1035286359622262784

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Fysics_Teacher

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

RochdalePioneers

oxfordsimon said:

So Williamson isn't prepared to engage with a fellow Labour MP

What a f**king mess

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1035286359622262784

Would you want to speak to Chris Williamson if you had a brain?

Tim_B

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

The problem is that the European market has entirely different requirements than the US market.

williamglenn

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

Trump doesn't want free trade so much as tribute.

Fysics_Teacher

Tim_B said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

The problem is that the European market has entirely different requirements than the US market.

Then why are European (and far eastern) cars so popular in the US?

oxfordsimon

RochdalePioneers said:

oxfordsimon said:

So Williamson isn't prepared to engage with a fellow Labour MP

What a f**king mess

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1035286359622262784

Would you want to speak to Chris Williamson if you had a brain?

No. But it is still a sad state of affairs when the main opposition party is so fractured (and being represented by someone as extreme as Williamson)

viewcode

Fysics_Teacher said:

Tim_B said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

The problem is that the European market has entirely different requirements than the US market.

Then why are European (and far eastern) cars so popular in the US?

Because (historically speaking) American cars are not good. And still aren't, if Clarkson is any guide. Although they do do good pickups (seriously: see http://www.foxnews.com/auto/2017/08/17/ford-f-series-is-best-selling-vehicle-in-world.html ) and - of course - Tesla is US.

Dura_Ace

Which African nation is having the sins of imperial exploitation compounded by Teresa "doing the Maybot" today?

rottenborough

oxfordsimon said:

RochdalePioneers said:

oxfordsimon said:

So Williamson isn't prepared to engage with a fellow Labour MP

What a f**king mess

https://twitter.com/Jamin2g/status/1035286359622262784

Would you want to speak to Chris Williamson if you had a brain?

No. But it is still a sad state of affairs when the main opposition party is so fractured (and being represented by someone as extreme as Williamson)

Two parties.

rottenborough

Cometh the hour.

Cometh the Ruth?

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1035299426124918784

williamglenn

Trump threatens to pull out of the WTO

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45364150

CarlottaVance

Everything's going so well....

https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1035296414434254849

CarlottaVance

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1035266530764877824

AndyJS

O/T
"Justice Department Says Harvard Illegally Discriminates Against Asian American Applicants"
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/8/30/doj-harvard-unlawful/

TheJezziah

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1035266530764877824

Looks like he had Neil rattled by bringing up Irving, going on to make claims that nobody likes Owen in response probably isn't the best counter argument I have ever seen employed...

In response to some of the Frank Field stuff earlier, wish him all the best.

Seems incredibly unlikely he would retain his seat against a Labour candidate, the area is close enough to being Liverpool politically.

The whether he stays in the party or is expelled for going independent seems fairly unimportant except perhaps from a principle point of view. The actual result will be much the same anyway, he will sit as an MP not taking the Labour whip and there will be a different candidate selected for Labour in his seat at the next election.

CarlottaVance

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

rottenborough

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

Add a comma after Major, and you are in a whole new rewrite fo history...

CarlottaVance

TheJezziah said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1035266530764877824

Looks like he had Neil rattled by bringing up Irving, going on to make claims that nobody likes Owen in response probably isn't the best counter argument I have ever seen employed...

Magic Grandpa evidence from 1992 is 'ancient history'.......?

https://twitter.com/ChristianJMay/status/1035211331354460164

rottenborough

CarlottaVance said:

TheJezziah said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1035266530764877824

Looks like he had Neil rattled by bringing up Irving, going on to make claims that nobody likes Owen in response probably isn't the best counter argument I have ever seen employed...

Magic Grandpa evidence from 1992 is 'ancient history'.......?

https://twitter.com/ChristianJMay/status/1035211331354460164

It must be quite dizzying, to keep track of who the enemy of the people are.

Still, it must have been the same in 1917.

TheJezziah

CarlottaVance said:

TheJezziah said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1035266530764877824

Looks like he had Neil rattled by bringing up Irving, going on to make claims that nobody likes Owen in response probably isn't the best counter argument I have ever seen employed...

Magic Grandpa evidence from 1992 is 'ancient history'.......?

https://twitter.com/ChristianJMay/status/1035211331354460164

It is just a relief that the left are the only people who ever work to discredit people, Imagine if right wingers and the right wing press engaged in this nonsense...

DecrepitJohnL

Mike Gapes (Labour MP) was said to be considering his position a few days ago. If he does follow Field, we can probably say this was not coordinated but whether the Gapes news prompted Field is another question. Not a very important one, perhaps, but what can you expect at twenty past two in the morning?

rcs1000

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

So, it's not the tariffs on US cars that cause the imbalance, it's that people prefer to buy European cars.

I thought Donald Trump wanted fair trade.

DecrepitJohnL

@TOPPING was wondering if Dominic Raab was the most almost-Jewish minister. A quick perusal of the Jewish Chronicle finds:
Communities Secretary James Brokenshire has revealed how plans for the Holocaust Memorial in Westminster strike a “personal chord” after detailing how his father-in-law and his children’s great grandfather both escaped Nazi Germany.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/communities-secretary-reveals-family-connection-to-shoah-1.469071

CarlottaVance

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

So, it's not the tariffs on US cars that cause the imbalance, it's that people prefer to buy European cars.

I thought Donald Trump wanted fair trade.

Up to a point, Lord Copper;

European leaders and the continent’s auto industry have been offering to drop the EU’s 10 percent tariff on passenger vehicles, a persistent target of Trump’s complaints. He has used the gap between that EU duty and the U.S.’s own 2.5 percent tariff on passenger cars to justify his plan to impose an import tax of as much as 25 percent on imported cars and parts.

But that complaint ignores the much higher 25 percent tariff the U.S. applies on light trucks, the most profitable segment for the U.S. auto industry.

CarlottaVance

LONDON (Reuters) - British consumers appear little fazed by the possibility of a no-deal Brexit, but businesses have turned more worried, surveys showed on Friday.

Britain’s headline gauge of consumer confidence, compiled by market research firm GfK for the European Commission, rose to -7 in August from -10 in July, matching 2018 highs struck in March and May.

Economists who took part in a Reuters poll had mostly expected the reading to remain at -10.

A separate survey showed a different picture among companies.

Lloyds Bank said its measure of business confidence in August fell six points to its lowest this year at 23 percent, dented by concerns about trading prospects for the year ahead and less economic optimism.

That compared with levels of around 40-50 percent before the Brexit referendum.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-consumersentiment/uk-consumers-defy-brexit-blues-but-companies-fret-surveys-idUKKCN1LF2T3

CarlottaVance

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

edmundintokyo

CarlottaVance said:

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

This is the kind of thing that gives me a bit of sympathy for her, lumbered with Brexit and doggedly trying to reconcile the voters' impossibly contradictory expectations, dancing like no-one is watching.

TheJezziah

It was nice to see her smiling and getting into it, her dancing skills are unimportant. I wouldn't fault her for it.

CarlottaVance

edmundintokyo said:

CarlottaVance said:

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

This is the kind of thing that gives me a bit of sympathy for her, lumbered with Brexit and doggedly trying to reconcile the voters' impossibly contradictory expectations, dancing like no-one is watching.

I'd say the responses to Rice's tweet were more than 50:50 in May's favour, many mention "dance like no-one is watching"!

Pulpstar

AndyJS said:

O/T
"Justice Department Says Harvard Illegally Discriminates Against Asian American Applicants"
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/8/30/doj-harvard-unlawful/

A welcome ruling to be perfectly honest, admissions really should about how strong a certain candidate is; not the colour of your skin.

rcs1000

CarlottaVance said:

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

So, it's not the tariffs on US cars that cause the imbalance, it's that people prefer to buy European cars.

I thought Donald Trump wanted fair trade.

Up to a point, Lord Copper;

European leaders and the continent’s auto industry have been offering to drop the EU’s 10 percent tariff on passenger vehicles, a persistent target of Trump’s complaints. He has used the gap between that EU duty and the U.S.’s own 2.5 percent tariff on passenger cars to justify his plan to impose an import tax of as much as 25 percent on imported cars and parts.

But that complaint ignores the much higher 25 percent tariff the U.S. applies on light trucks, the most profitable segment for the U.S. auto industry.

The Porsche Macan is about a pound below the "car" / "light truck" weight designation. Coincidence?

But the point remains: President Trump isn't really interested in free or fair trade.

Stereotomy

Pulpstar said:

AndyJS said:

O/T
"Justice Department Says Harvard Illegally Discriminates Against Asian American Applicants"
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/8/30/doj-harvard-unlawful/

A welcome ruling to be perfectly honest, admissions really should about how strong a certain candidate is; not the colour of your skin.

Is it a ruling? The article says the trial begins on October 15th

Pulpstar

Stereotomy said:

Pulpstar said:

AndyJS said:

O/T
"Justice Department Says Harvard Illegally Discriminates Against Asian American Applicants"
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/8/30/doj-harvard-unlawful/

A welcome ruling to be perfectly honest, admissions really should about how strong a certain candidate is; not the colour of your skin.

Is it a ruling? The article says the trial begins on October 15th

Hah, yes I've read the article I want to read. Not the actual article...
Still I think the case wins if it reaches SCOTUS

edmundintokyo

OT Merkel allegedly backing Manfred Weber as EPP Spitzenkandidat:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-merkel/merkel-backs-bavarian-ally-as-center-rights-eu-commission-candidate-media-idUSKCN1LF2O5

rcs1000

Has anyone been following this story:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/google-sotu-promotion/

Nigelb

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

They are - it’s called Tesla.
Early days, but shows promise.

Nigelb

CarlottaVance said:

edmundintokyo said:

CarlottaVance said:

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

This is the kind of thing that gives me a bit of sympathy for her, lumbered with Brexit and doggedly trying to reconcile the voters' impossibly contradictory expectations, dancing like no-one is watching.

I'd say the responses to Rice's tweet were more than 50:50 in May's favour, many mention "dance like no-one is watching"!

I suspect that those of us who can’t dance make up a majority of the electorate.

Nigelb

rcs1000 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

So, it's not the tariffs on US cars that cause the imbalance, it's that people prefer to buy European cars.

I thought Donald Trump wanted fair trade.

I think Trump’s wants are rather more pathological. This seems like a plausible assessment:
https://slate.com/technology/2018/08/no-matter-how-bad-it-gets-trump-will-never-give-up.html

Clinicians have observed that some individuals with antisocial personalities burn out. Over time, negative family and legal consequences take a toll, prompting antisocials to conform to social and legal expectations. However, when antisocial personalities wield power, burning out is unlikely. Power provides leverage to evade personal responsibility for financial maleficence and sexual indiscretions. Antisocial personalities who have the upper hand will increase their reckless, impulsive, and self-aggrandizing behaviors in an effort to extend their ever-expanding need for power and control. This seems to be the case with Trump: He will continue to be drawn toward authoritarian leaders, for example, because they symbolize his interpersonal goal of gaining even more power and authority over everyone...

JosiasJessop

Nigelb said:

CarlottaVance said:

edmundintokyo said:

CarlottaVance said:

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

This is the kind of thing that gives me a bit of sympathy for her, lumbered with Brexit and doggedly trying to reconcile the voters' impossibly contradictory expectations, dancing like no-one is watching.

I'd say the responses to Rice's tweet were more than 50:50 in May's favour, many mention "dance like no-one is watching"!

I suspect that those of us who can’t dance make up a majority of the electorate.

A friend of a friend can dance, and has passed exams in various types of dance as an adult.

I've never seen it, but apparently at events he is always one of the first on the dancefloor, and deliberately dances awfully, so others aren't embarrassed about dancing. The floor soon fills up.

I guess to dance truly dreadfully, you have to be able to dance well. Therefore I must be a brilliant dancer in private ...

Nigelb

rcs1000 said:

Has anyone been following this story:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/google-sotu-promotion/

Yes, but the framing of the story is wrong. Trump really doesn’t care if it is true or not.

JosiasJessop

Nigelb said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

They are - it’s called Tesla.
Early days, but shows promise.

It'll be interesting to see exactly how well Tesla will do in the international mass market. Their valuation is currently insane, but Musk is doing his best on Twitter to remedy that ...

Dura_Ace

edmundintokyo said:

CarlottaVance said:

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

This is the kind of thing that gives me a bit of sympathy for her, lumbered with Brexit and doggedly trying to reconcile the voters' impossibly contradictory expectations, dancing like no-one is watching.

The Maybot Dance is to TM what antisemitism is to JC. Idiotic, revolting and should be the death of any political career but they double down and own it instead.

CarlottaVance

Dura_Ace said:

edmundintokyo said:

CarlottaVance said:

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

This is the kind of thing that gives me a bit of sympathy for her, lumbered with Brexit and doggedly trying to reconcile the voters' impossibly contradictory expectations, dancing like no-one is watching.

The Maybot Dance is to TM what antisemitism is to JC. Idiotic, revolting and should be the death of any political career but they double down and own it instead.

I presume that's tongue in cheek? If not your Moral Compass needs checking.....

Nigelb

JosiasJessop said:

Nigelb said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

They are - it’s called Tesla.
Early days, but shows promise.

It'll be interesting to see exactly how well Tesla will do in the international mass market. Their valuation is currently insane, but Musk is doing his best on Twitter to remedy that ...

Is their valuation insane ? It certainly assumes success in their efforts, but that has been true of many tech companies. Highly speculative might be a fairer assessment.

Tesla does have a significant advantage over its western rivals, as it understood very early on that controlling its own supply of batteries would be they key to succeeding competitively.
They are now spending large sums to catch up, so the window of opportunity is fairly brief.

JosiasJessop

Nigelb said:

JosiasJessop said:

Nigelb said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/scottlincicome/status/1035299308197822464

Could the Americans try building better cars more suited to the European market?

They are - it’s called Tesla.
Early days, but shows promise.

It'll be interesting to see exactly how well Tesla will do in the international mass market. Their valuation is currently insane, but Musk is doing his best on Twitter to remedy that ...

Is their valuation insane ? It certainly assumes success in their efforts, but that has been true of many tech companies. Highly speculative might be a fairer assessment.

Tesla does have a significant advantage over its western rivals, as it understood very early on that controlling its own supply of batteries would be they key to succeeding competitively.
They are now spending large sums to catch up, so the window of opportunity is fairly brief.

Even leaving those good points aside: yes, it is insane. Having a small company as one of the most valuable car manufacturers in the world, against ones with a long and profitable track record?

The batteries are manufactured in conjunction with Panasonic, with the battery cells in the Gigafactory being made by Panasonic (leastways, hey were a year or so ago, and I assume that has not changed).

The problem with comparing Tesla with 'other tech companies' is that the other tech companies generally produced software only, and software is relatively cheap to produce and deploy. Mass production of cars is much more difficult. Witness the alleged rather high rate of out-of-factory rework required. Hardware is hard; mass hardware is really hard.

Even SpaceX isn't a comparison, as that produces (inn the order of) a hundred engines, and a couple of dozen or so rockets, per year. That's not mass production in car terms.

ydoethur

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

I'm assuming that headline is a cock up.

Pause.

I'll get my coat.

MarqueeMark

CarlottaVance said:

LONDON (Reuters) - British consumers appear little fazed by the possibility of a no-deal Brexit, but businesses have turned more worried, surveys showed on Friday.

Britain’s headline gauge of consumer confidence, compiled by market research firm GfK for the European Commission, rose to -7 in August from -10 in July, matching 2018 highs struck in March and May.

Economists who took part in a Reuters poll had mostly expected the reading to remain at -10.

A separate survey showed a different picture among companies.

Lloyds Bank said its measure of business confidence in August fell six points to its lowest this year at 23 percent, dented by concerns about trading prospects for the year ahead and less economic optimism.

That compared with levels of around 40-50 percent before the Brexit referendum.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy-consumersentiment/uk-consumers-defy-brexit-blues-but-companies-fret-surveys-idUKKCN1LF2T3

I suspect that mirrors the level of concern by Eurocrats that no-deal Brexit might be a real thing.

Good.

The carpet vendor thought he could sell us any old tat at an exhorbitant price, because he thought we wouldn't haggle. But we have now turned round and headed towards the door. Surprise surprise, he will magically have a better carpet, at a better price.

Bazaar Carpet Buying 1.01.......

CarlottaVance

A nest of singing birds:

https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1035399592710418432

MarqueeMark

CarlottaVance said:

Snarky "diplomat":

https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1035311089658015744

Naked racism. She is playing the "Only black people can dance, so only black people should try" card.

Or something.

May should challenge her to a dance-off. I'd personally love to see Theresa May pogoing with the Maasai to Sheena Is A Punk-rocker.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA4bAuAoEsU

Morris_Dancer

Good morning, everyone.

Dancing in public is the stuff of nightmares. Unlike the dream I had last night, about going to assassin school. Although I suppose the media would still be having a go at May if she'd tried her hand at knife-throwing.

AndyJS

Pulpstar said:

AndyJS said:

O/T
"Justice Department Says Harvard Illegally Discriminates Against Asian American Applicants"
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/8/30/doj-harvard-unlawful/

A welcome ruling to be perfectly honest, admissions really should about how strong a certain candidate is; not the colour of your skin.

Problem is that would probably reduce the number of African-American students.

MarqueeMark

ydoethur said:

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

I'm assuming that headline is a cock up.

Pause.

I'll get my coat.

Sir John, Sir John, did you learn nothing from the Cones Hotline? It's not what people want.....

MarqueeMark

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

Dancing in public is the stuff of nightmares. Unlike the dream I had last night, about going to assassin school. Although I suppose the media would still be having a go at May if she'd tried her hand at knife-throwing.

We've told you before about that late-night Wensleydale....

CarlottaVance

Alex Salmond’s aggressive response to sexual misconduct allegations yesterday sparked a damaging split within the SNP.

The former first minister’s controversial decision to launch a fundraising campaign for his legal challenge laid bare internal divisions in the nationalist movement.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon voiced concerns about the message Salmond’s successful crowdfunding campaign would send to victims of harassment.

But her words were undermined when her party treasurer donated money to it.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie contributed £20 to the online drive yesterday helping push it beyond the £50,000 Salmond aimed for.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-turmoil-sturgeon-urges-supporters-13167672

SquareRoot

I didn't realise quite how bad TMay's dancing was.. ..

DavidL

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

As you should know gentlemen don't discuss these things Carlotta but let's just say that with the collapse of Jute, Jam and Journalism the City is exploring other options.

Freggles

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Mark, don't like Wensleydale.

But I would, if it would give me regular assassin dreams.

TOPPING

DecrepitJohnL said:

@TOPPING was wondering if Dominic Raab was the most almost-Jewish minister. A quick perusal of the Jewish Chronicle finds:
Communities Secretary James Brokenshire has revealed how plans for the Holocaust Memorial in Westminster strike a “personal chord” after detailing how his father-in-law and his children’s great grandfather both escaped Nazi Germany.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/communities-secretary-reveals-family-connection-to-shoah-1.469071

Interesting thanks.

SquareRoot

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Mark, don't like Wensleydale.

But I would, if it would give me regular assassin dreams.

Did someone say Wensleydale ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0

AlastairMeeks

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

She’s dismally inept and lacking in any charisma or vision, but she evidently has a strong sense of duty and is not intentionally actively malign. I wouldn’t go as far as “like” but as you say she benefits from comparison with alternatives.

TOPPING

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

As you should know gentlemen don't discuss these things Carlotta but let's just say that with the collapse of Jute, Jam and Journalism the City is exploring other options.

How is Dundee getting on in the league?

DavidL

CarlottaVance said:

Alex Salmond’s aggressive response to sexual misconduct allegations yesterday sparked a damaging split within the SNP.

The former first minister’s controversial decision to launch a fundraising campaign for his legal challenge laid bare internal divisions in the nationalist movement.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon voiced concerns about the message Salmond’s successful crowdfunding campaign would send to victims of harassment.

But her words were undermined when her party treasurer donated money to it.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie contributed £20 to the online drive yesterday helping push it beyond the £50,000 Salmond aimed for.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-turmoil-sturgeon-urges-supporters-13167672

There's a lot of SNP supporters who still think Salmond was the one that got them so close to Independence and that Sturgeon isn't trying hard enough to get a second referendum. They have somehow concluded that this is a Westminster plot even although the inquiry is by the Scottish government that the SNP have run for 10 years. It's a pity that kind of mental jujitsu is not being applied to more important problems, it would surely be capable of providing truly novel solutions.

NickPalmer

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alex Salmond’s aggressive response to sexual misconduct allegations yesterday sparked a damaging split within the SNP.

The former first minister’s controversial decision to launch a fundraising campaign for his legal challenge laid bare internal divisions in the nationalist movement.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon voiced concerns about the message Salmond’s successful crowdfunding campaign would send to victims of harassment.

But her words were undermined when her party treasurer donated money to it.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie contributed £20 to the online drive yesterday helping push it beyond the £50,000 Salmond aimed for.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-turmoil-sturgeon-urges-supporters-13167672

There's a lot of SNP supporters who still think Salmond was the one that got them so close to Independence and that Sturgeon isn't trying hard enough to get a second referendum. They have somehow concluded that this is a Westminster plot even although the inquiry is by the Scottish government that the SNP have run for 10 years. It's a pity that kind of mental jujitsu is not being applied to more important problems, it would surely be capable of providing truly novel solutions.

I don't have a dog in this fight - I've no strong views on Scottish independence either way. But raising money for his legal case doesn't seem to me to be a message to victims of harassment. He's defending himself, and perhaps he's innocent, in which case he's quite right to do so. Equally, Sturgeon is right not to either attack or defend him. I don't see any villains here.

DavidL

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

As you should know gentlemen don't discuss these things Carlotta but let's just say that with the collapse of Jute, Jam and Journalism the City is exploring other options.

How is Dundee getting on in the league?

I am not a Dundee fan being a Dundee United man but I understand that Dundee are very sportingly giving the rest of the league a head start to make it more interesting, just like Man U.

NickPalmer

TheJezziah said:

It was nice to see her smiling and getting into it, her dancing skills are unimportant. I wouldn't fault her for it.

+1

DavidL

NickPalmer said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alex Salmond’s aggressive response to sexual misconduct allegations yesterday sparked a damaging split within the SNP.

The former first minister’s controversial decision to launch a fundraising campaign for his legal challenge laid bare internal divisions in the nationalist movement.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon voiced concerns about the message Salmond’s successful crowdfunding campaign would send to victims of harassment.

But her words were undermined when her party treasurer donated money to it.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie contributed £20 to the online drive yesterday helping push it beyond the £50,000 Salmond aimed for.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-turmoil-sturgeon-urges-supporters-13167672

There's a lot of SNP supporters who still think Salmond was the one that got them so close to Independence and that Sturgeon isn't trying hard enough to get a second referendum. They have somehow concluded that this is a Westminster plot even although the inquiry is by the Scottish government that the SNP have run for 10 years. It's a pity that kind of mental jujitsu is not being applied to more important problems, it would surely be capable of providing truly novel solutions.

I don't have a dog in this fight - I've no strong views on Scottish independence either way. But raising money for his legal case doesn't seem to me to be a message to victims of harassment. He's defending himself, and perhaps he's innocent, in which case he's quite right to do so. Equally, Sturgeon is right not to either attack or defend him. I don't see any villains here.

There has been criticism about the fund raising and suggestions that it should have gone to women's charities instead but this strikes me too (ha) as false outrage. It's not as if the money would have gone there in the alternative. This is despite the fact that I am not involved in the judicial review against the Scottish government so none of it is coming my way.

I am not a huge fan of judicial review which usually seems to be looking at the wrong question, not whether the right decision was reached but whether the right procedure was used to make it. In this case Salmond is challenging the procedures used to investigate him. I don't think that these have been examined or tested before so it is quite possible that some flaw will be found but this will have nothing to do with the merits of the actual complaints.

MarqueeMark

NickPalmer said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alex Salmond’s aggressive response to sexual misconduct allegations yesterday sparked a damaging split within the SNP.

The former first minister’s controversial decision to launch a fundraising campaign for his legal challenge laid bare internal divisions in the nationalist movement.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon voiced concerns about the message Salmond’s successful crowdfunding campaign would send to victims of harassment.

But her words were undermined when her party treasurer donated money to it.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie contributed £20 to the online drive yesterday helping push it beyond the £50,000 Salmond aimed for.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-turmoil-sturgeon-urges-supporters-13167672

There's a lot of SNP supporters who still think Salmond was the one that got them so close to Independence and that Sturgeon isn't trying hard enough to get a second referendum. They have somehow concluded that this is a Westminster plot even although the inquiry is by the Scottish government that the SNP have run for 10 years. It's a pity that kind of mental jujitsu is not being applied to more important problems, it would surely be capable of providing truly novel solutions.

I don't have a dog in this fight - I've no strong views on Scottish independence either way. But raising money for his legal case doesn't seem to me to be a message to victims of harassment. He's defending himself, and perhaps he's innocent, in which case he's quite right to do so. Equally, Sturgeon is right not to either attack or defend him. I don't see any villains here.

He'd be better - from a PR POV - spending his own wealth.

Like all that Russki TV money he gets.

Foxy

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

Dancing in public is the stuff of nightmares. Unlike the dream I had last night, about going to assassin school. Although I suppose the media would still be having a go at May if she'd tried her hand at knife-throwing.

I quite agree Morris Dancing should only be done in private. With the lights out preferably.

MarqueeMark

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

People warming to the demob-happy, I-don't-give-a-shit Tezza......

DavidL

MarqueeMark said:

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

People warming to the demob-happy, I-don't-give-a-shit Tezza......

Perhaps she should keep this up. Giving her speech to the Conference in the mode of interpretive dance has got to be a step up on last year.

Fysics_Teacher

Who could argue with this?

https://theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/30/physics-teachers-should-be-paid-more-to-attract-and-retain-talent-report

Foxy

DavidL said:

NickPalmer said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Alex Salmond’s aggressive response to sexual misconduct allegations yesterday sparked a damaging split within the SNP.

The former first minister’s controversial decision to launch a fundraising campaign for his legal challenge laid bare internal divisions in the nationalist movement.

SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon voiced concerns about the message Salmond’s successful crowdfunding campaign would send to victims of harassment.

But her words were undermined when her party treasurer donated money to it.

SNP MSP Colin Beattie contributed £20 to the online drive yesterday helping push it beyond the £50,000 Salmond aimed for.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-turmoil-sturgeon-urges-supporters-13167672

There's a lot of SNP supporters who still think Salmond was the one that got them so close to Independence and that Sturgeon isn't trying hard enough to get a second referendum. They have somehow concluded that this is a Westminster plot even although the inquiry is by the Scottish government that the SNP have run for 10 years. It's a pity that kind of mental jujitsu is not being applied to more important problems, it would surely be capable of providing truly novel solutions.

I don't have a dog in this fight - I've no strong views on Scottish independence either way. But raising money for his legal case doesn't seem to me to be a message to victims of harassment. He's defending himself, and perhaps he's innocent, in which case he's quite right to do so. Equally, Sturgeon is right not to either attack or defend him. I don't see any villains here.

There has been criticism about the fund raising and suggestions that it should have gone to women's charities instead but this strikes me too (ha) as false outrage. It's not as if the money would have gone there in the alternative. This is despite the fact that I am not involved in the judicial review against the Scottish government so none of it is coming my way.

I am not a huge fan of judicial review which usually seems to be looking at the wrong question, not whether the right decision was reached but whether the right procedure was used to make it. In this case Salmond is challenging the procedures used to investigate him. I don't think that these have been examined or tested before so it is quite possible that some flaw will be found but this will have nothing to do with the merits of the actual complaints.

The SNP are just giving into peer pressure. All other parties are having bitter splits over personalities and they don't want to be left out.

Its just as well there are no important issues facing the country.

Morris_Dancer

Dr. Foxy, the ladies certainly love a private performance when it comes to a chap and his wiffle stick.

DavidL

Fysics_Teacher said:

Who could argue with this?

https://theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/30/physics-teachers-should-be-paid-more-to-attract-and-retain-talent-report

Did you not link to this egregious special pleading yesterday?

MarqueeMark

DavidL said:

MarqueeMark said:

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

People warming to the demob-happy, I-don't-give-a-shit Tezza......

Perhaps she should keep this up. Giving her speech to the Conference in the mode of interpretive dance has got to be a step up on last year.

Perhaps something more, er, startling than Tezza dancing would be the whole of the Conference joining in too....

Fysics_Teacher

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

Don’t forget Boris, and whoever the Lib Dem leader is.

DavidL

Foxy said:

DavidL said:

NickPalmer said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

I don't have a dog in this fight - I've no strong views on Scottish independence either way. But raising money for his legal case doesn't seem to me to be a message to victims of harassment. He's defending himself, and perhaps he's innocent, in which case he's quite right to do so. Equally, Sturgeon is right not to either attack or defend him. I don't see any villains here.

There has been criticism about the fund raising and suggestions that it should have gone to women's charities instead but this strikes me too (ha) as false outrage. It's not as if the money would have gone there in the alternative. This is despite the fact that I am not involved in the judicial review against the Scottish government so none of it is coming my way.

I am not a huge fan of judicial review which usually seems to be looking at the wrong question, not whether the right decision was reached but whether the right procedure was used to make it. In this case Salmond is challenging the procedures used to investigate him. I don't think that these have been examined or tested before so it is quite possible that some flaw will be found but this will have nothing to do with the merits of the actual complaints.

The SNP are just giving into peer pressure. All other parties are having bitter splits over personalities and they don't want to be left out.

Its just as well there are no important issues facing the country.

In fairness it does seem to be the only way to get any coverage at all. Who wants to hear about people getting on and running things? Too boring for words.

DavidL

MarqueeMark said:

DavidL said:

MarqueeMark said:

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

People warming to the demob-happy, I-don't-give-a-shit Tezza......

Perhaps she should keep this up. Giving her speech to the Conference in the mode of interpretive dance has got to be a step up on last year.

Perhaps something more, er, startling than Tezza dancing would be the whole of the Conference joining in too....

Oh lord, they are going to do that aren't they? Better have the local casualty unit on high alert.

Fysics_Teacher

DavidL said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

Who could argue with this?

https://theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/30/physics-teachers-should-be-paid-more-to-attract-and-retain-talent-report

Did you not link to this egregious special pleading yesterday?

In general, yes, but not this article.

All teachers rely on repetition to make sure that important points are fully understood.

MarqueeMark

Fysics_Teacher said:

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

Don’t forget Boris, and whoever the Lib Dem leader is.

Certainly a mental leap to see her facing inappropriate sexual conduct charges.....

MarqueeMark

DavidL said:

MarqueeMark said:

DavidL said:

MarqueeMark said:

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

People warming to the demob-happy, I-don't-give-a-shit Tezza......

Perhaps she should keep this up. Giving her speech to the Conference in the mode of interpretive dance has got to be a step up on last year.

Perhaps something more, er, startling than Tezza dancing would be the whole of the Conference joining in too....

Oh lord, they are going to do that aren't they? Better have the local casualty unit on high alert.

I'm thinking maybe, to Zombie Nation?

IanB2

DavidL said:

MarqueeMark said:

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

People warming to the demob-happy, I-don't-give-a-shit Tezza......

Perhaps she should keep this up. Giving her speech to the Conference in the mode of interpretive dance has got to be a step up on last year.

Nothing that becoming the first serving PM to do Strictly couldn't put right.

MarqueeMark

Hmmmm, Tezza's Conference speech mosh-pit...

I'm almost tempted to go......

Nigelb

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

Dancing in public is the stuff of nightmares. Unlike the dream I had last night, about going to assassin school. Although I suppose the media would still be having a go at May if she'd tried her hand at knife-throwing.

I quite agree Morris Dancing should only be done in private. With the lights out preferably.

There is a limit to how ridiculous even Mrs May can appear. She should eschew the bellpads.

rkrkrk

Fysics_Teacher said:

Who could argue with this?

https://theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/30/physics-teachers-should-be-paid-more-to-attract-and-retain-talent-report

It's tricky though. I can see that teachers in other subjects might be a bit put out by their colleagues suddenly getting a pay bump? Is it common already for teachers of different subjects to get less or more...?

TOPPING

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

As you should know gentlemen don't discuss these things Carlotta but let's just say that with the collapse of Jute, Jam and Journalism the City is exploring other options.

How is Dundee getting on in the league?

I am not a Dundee fan being a Dundee United man but I understand that Dundee are very sportingly giving the rest of the league a head start to make it more interesting, just like Man U.

I meant the blow job league!

Jeez David do I have to explain my jokes now!!??

DavidL

IanB2 said:

DavidL said:

MarqueeMark said:

Freggles said:

I have to admit I quite like Tezza now . Clearly she's helped by being around at the same time as JRM, Corbyn and Trump, but still....

People warming to the demob-happy, I-don't-give-a-shit Tezza......

Perhaps she should keep this up. Giving her speech to the Conference in the mode of interpretive dance has got to be a step up on last year.

Nothing that becoming the first serving PM to do Strictly couldn't put right.

I see her more as a bake off fan myself. In fact that might be a way of resolving the next cabinet reshuffle: anyone with a soggy bottom is out.

DavidL

Fysics_Teacher said:

DavidL said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

Who could argue with this?

https://theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/30/physics-teachers-should-be-paid-more-to-attract-and-retain-talent-report

Did you not link to this egregious special pleading yesterday?

In general, yes, but not this article.

All teachers rely on repetition to make sure that important points are fully understood.

I've fallen into your trap, haven't I?

DavidL

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

As you should know gentlemen don't discuss these things Carlotta but let's just say that with the collapse of Jute, Jam and Journalism the City is exploring other options.

How is Dundee getting on in the league?

I am not a Dundee fan being a Dundee United man but I understand that Dundee are very sportingly giving the rest of the league a head start to make it more interesting, just like Man U.

I meant the blow job league!

Jeez David do I have to explain my jokes now!!??

Err possibly. There's a blow job league?

Foxy

Nigelb said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

Dancing in public is the stuff of nightmares. Unlike the dream I had last night, about going to assassin school. Although I suppose the media would still be having a go at May if she'd tried her hand at knife-throwing.

I quite agree Morris Dancing should only be done in private. With the lights out preferably.

There is a limit to how ridiculous even Mrs May can appear. She should eschew the bellpads.

Nah, she is probably right to try to own it. Just need a dance off with Jezza to settle the issue.

Once seen, cannot be unseen....

https://youtu.be/nRLi_G5vCxs

TOPPING

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

TOPPING said:

DavidL said:

CarlottaVance said:

Perhaps DavidL would care to comment:

https://twitter.com/DanKaszeta/status/1035186338839121920

As you should know gentlemen don't discuss these things Carlotta but let's just say that with the collapse of Jute, Jam and Journalism the City is exploring other options.

How is Dundee getting on in the league?

I am not a Dundee fan being a Dundee United man but I understand that Dundee are very sportingly giving the rest of the league a head start to make it more interesting, just like Man U.

I meant the blow job league!

Jeez David do I have to explain my jokes now!!??

Err possibly. There's a blow job league?

It must be too early for both of us...

Morris_Dancer

Mr. Teacher, that reminds me of Jack O'Neill's reply to a ship's captain when told there's no redundancy in that system: "So you're saying there's no redundancy?"

Fysics_Teacher

rkrkrk said:

Fysics_Teacher said:

Who could argue with this?

https://theguardian.com/education/2018/aug/30/physics-teachers-should-be-paid-more-to-attract-and-retain-talent-report

It's tricky though. I can see that teachers in other subjects might be a bit put out by their colleagues suddenly getting a pay bump? Is it common already for teachers of different subjects to get less or more...?

Not formally, though there are recruitment and retention allowances available which some schools use. I was given a management point on the old scale early in my career which was essentially one of these; the school then had to scrabble around trying to come up with something for me to do to justify it.