politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The affairs of state. How the personal can become very politic

System

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The affairs of state. How the personal can become very political indeed

Love him or loathe him, Alex Salmond is one of the towering political figures of the age.  He has taken the cause of Scottish independence from a fringe idea to one of the great themes of Scottish and indeed British politics.  With a ready wit and an unsurpassable sense of his own importance, he has assembled an army of Nats on and offline, all straining to be unyoked from the United Kingdom.

Read the full story here

FrancisUrquhart

Good job blowers isn't on Test Match special anymore, might have been in trouble with the PC police at the BBC.

‘You don't see many Englishmen where I live’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6117659/Voice-cricket-Henry-Blofeld-reveals-swapping-horribly-violent-London-Spain.html

FrancisUrquhart

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

ydoethur

Aaand Root does what Root does best - find an inventive way to give away his wicket while set.

Allan Border he ain't.

SquareRoot

FrancisUrquhart said:

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

No thread on Frank Field either, unless I missed it

FrancisUrquhart

SquareRoot said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

No thread on Frank Field either, unless I missed it

Well the current Labour Party and England team have a lot of similarities....both have major issues, but don't seem able or willing to address them.

FrancisUrquhart

Well the million dollar man is going to have to step up to the plate.

ydoethur

FrancisUrquhart said:

SquareRoot said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

No thread on Frank Field either, unless I missed it

Well the current Labour Party and England team have a lot of similarities....both have major issues, but don't seem able or willing to address them.

Both are led by figures totally unsuited to leadership who after initially raising their game are now plumbing the depths of incompetence?

Both had the other side on the ropes and let them off?

JosiasJessop

Great threader Alastair.

ydoethur

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

DecrepitJohnL

SquareRoot said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

No thread on Frank Field either, unless I missed it

You missed it, perhaps owing to its cunning disguise as a Nigel Farage thread that was overtaken by events.

JosiasJessop

ydoethur said:

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

Surely that's the same for most people accused of a crime who are named pre-trial? There will always be people who believe the accusations regardless.

As an example, if you look in the right places you'll find people who believe that the British man Elon Musk accused of being a 'pedo' is one, simply because Musk said so, and Musk is such a God that he can't be wrong, or must know something.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

Morris_Dancer

Good afternoon, everyone.

That qualifying session was rather tight.

Vettel's tone over the radio does suggest he might have someone executed.

Yorkcity

ydoethur said:

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

Very true .

Will we ever move to not naming people in such allegations.?
Until there has been a charge against them by the Police.

Or if the allegation is not criminal , until it goes to a civil procedure.

Big_G_NorthWales

Just watching Senator McCain's funeral from Washington Cathedral and what does it say that the President of the United States has been banned. Trump is just not fit to stand anywhere near John McCain

But what is it with the BBC commentators that they idly talk over the singing of the hymns. No respect

ydoethur

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

Surely that's the same for most people accused of a crime who are named pre-trial? There will always be people who believe the accusations regardless.

As an example, if you look in the right places you'll find people who believe that the British man Elon Musk accused of being a 'pedo' is one, simply because Musk said so, and Musk is such a God that he can't be wrong, or must know something.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

For something like theft or murder, there is always the possibility of proving innocence through alibi, or through someone else being found guilty. For example, if I am accused of shooting somebody dead in Alfreton and at the moment the shot was fired CCTV footage puts me in Bristol, anyone who claims I got off because of a bent judge or I was lucky is quite clearly not only insane but also asking to be sued for defamation and be placed under restraint. Or, if I am charged with burgling Chatsworth despite the fact my fingerprints are not there and I have no stolen goods, and then a few days later somebody else who I've no connection to is found to have a huge collection of Charsworth items and his fingerprints are all over the door handles, then again the case collapses (unless you are a particular sergeant in a police force in the south of England, who shall be nameless, who has never let things like the evidence stop him from trying his damndest for a conviction).

But in a sexual assault allegation involving people who are acquainted it becomes very much 'he said/she said,' and proving anything is damn near impossible.

JPJ2

Unlike Parnell, Salmond has already ceased to be leader, and is no longer even an elected member of parliament. This will dilute the effect of any negative impact.

If anyone really wants to see an accurate assessment of the likely effect on the next Independence referendum, I strongly suggest viewing Chris Cairns cartoon today on the "Wings" blog :-)

ydoethur

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Just watching Senator McCain's funeral from Washington Cathedral and what does it say that the President of the United States has been banned. Trump is just not fit to stand anywhere near John McCain

But what is it with the BBC commentators that they idly talk over the singing of the hymns. No respect

The moment I actually swore at David Dimbleby was when he pointlessly talked over some rather beautiful music at the Edinburgh Military Tattoo, giving some rather pointless information about the juxtaposition of Rabbie Burns' funeral and the birth of Burns' son Max.

YBarddCwsc

Of course, we have already seen the mishandling of allegations of sexual impropriety force the resignation of Carwyn Jones. And bring about the suicide of Carl Sergeant.

That murky affair rumbles on,

It does seem remarkable to me that the Sergeant allegations are still secret, and the names of the complainants still unknown. Presumably this information will remain hidden.

I find it impossible to decide (with the information I have) whether Carl Sergeant was the bully, or the bullied, or both.

HYUFD

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

JosiasJessop

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

Surely that's the same for most people accused of a crime who are named pre-trial? There will always be people who believe the accusations regardless.

As an example, if you look in the right places you'll find people who believe that the British man Elon Musk accused of being a 'pedo' is one, simply because Musk said so, and Musk is such a God that he can't be wrong, or must know something.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

For something like theft or murder, there is always the possibility of proving innocence through alibi, or through someone else being found guilty. For example, if I am accused of shooting somebody dead in Alfreton and at the moment the shot was fired CCTV footage puts me in Bristol, anyone who claims I got off because of a bent judge or I was lucky is quite clearly not only insane but also asking to be sued for defamation and be placed under restraint. Or, if I am charged with burgling Chatsworth despite the fact my fingerprints are not there and I have no stolen goods, and then a few days later somebody else who I've no connection to is found to have a huge collection of Charsworth items and his fingerprints are all over the door handles, then again the case collapses (unless you are a particular sergeant in a police force in the south of England, who shall be nameless, who has never let things like the evidence stop him from trying his damndest for a conviction).

But in a sexual assault allegation involving people who are acquainted it becomes very much 'he said/she said,' and proving anything is damn near impossible.

Indeed. However I was pointing a bit deeper than that: even if an accusation is utterly disproved, some mud sticks. You will have people who want to believe the accusations (in this realm, because they disagree with the politics), and others because they see the front page headline about the accusation but not the ninth-page article about the acquittal.

ydoethur

YBarddCwsc said:

It does seem remarkable to me that the Sergeant allegations are still secret, and the names of the complainants still unknown. Presumably this information will remain hidden.

Well, yes. Why would it be shared? I can see no reason to share it now and a great many reasons not to.

The only thing that might change my mind is if a police investigation established the allegations were false, like those made by 'Nick' against Harvey Procter and the others. But I doubt if one will be held now.

Big_G_NorthWales

What a beautiful and intense eulogy from John McCain's daughter

I defy anyone to listen to it without being greatly moved by her words and devotion to her Father

'The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again, it already is' and the congregration break into spontaneous applause.

What a way to shame Trump

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

What a beautiful and intense eulogy from John McCain's daughter

I defy anyone to listen to it without being greatly moved by her words and devotion to her Father

'The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again, it already is' and the congregration break into spontaneous applause.

What a way to shame Trump

A bit over emotional but powerful nonetheless

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do talk some nonsense at times. No it would not

Stereotomy

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

Surely that's the same for most people accused of a crime who are named pre-trial? There will always be people who believe the accusations regardless.

As an example, if you look in the right places you'll find people who believe that the British man Elon Musk accused of being a 'pedo' is one, simply because Musk said so, and Musk is such a God that he can't be wrong, or must know something.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

For something like theft or murder, there is always the possibility of proving innocence through alibi, or through someone else being found guilty. For example, if I am accused of shooting somebody dead in Alfreton and at the moment the shot was fired CCTV footage puts me in Bristol, anyone who claims I got off because of a bent judge or I was lucky is quite clearly not only insane but also asking to be sued for defamation and be placed under restraint. Or, if I am charged with burgling Chatsworth despite the fact my fingerprints are not there and I have no stolen goods, and then a few days later somebody else who I've no connection to is found to have a huge collection of Charsworth items and his fingerprints are all over the door handles, then again the case collapses (unless you are a particular sergeant in a police force in the south of England, who shall be nameless, who has never let things like the evidence stop him from trying his damndest for a conviction).

But in a sexual assault allegation involving people who are acquainted it becomes very much 'he said/she said,' and proving anything is damn near impossible.

Okay, and what if innocence in the theft isn't proven, you're just found not guilty? Or what if the sexual assault allegation was based on an encounter that never happened at all, and you have an alibi for that? This seems like a really tortured line of reasoning

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

What a beautiful and intense eulogy from John McCain's daughter

I defy anyone to listen to it without being greatly moved by her words and devotion to her Father

'The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again, it already is' and the congregration break into spontaneous applause.

What a way to shame Trump

A bit over emotional but powerful nonetheless

She has just lost her Father. How can anyone be over emotional

HYUFD

Now they are singing the National Anthem with the wrong words

HYUFD

JPJ2 said:

Unlike Parnell, Salmond has already ceased to be leader, and is no longer even an elected member of parliament. This will dilute the effect of any negative impact.

If anyone really wants to see an accurate assessment of the likely effect on the next Independence referendum, I strongly suggest viewing Chris Cairns cartoon today on the "Wings" blog :-)

The Cairns cartoon misses the point, it is the Attorney General of the Scottish Government considering whether to bring charges against Salmond not Westminster

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Now they are singing the National Anthem with the wrong words

I give up

My Country, tis of thee

JPJ2

HYUFD

Your analysis makes no sense (are you engaging in wishful thinking?).

If Salmond is found guilty in a court of law why would the party split? Would it be into a group favouring the activity for which he has been convicted and into one opposed to his actions? :-) Again I recommend Chris Cairns cartoon ay "Wings" to those with open minds on the likely effect-not you, HYFUD, obviously :-)

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

What a beautiful and intense eulogy from John McCain's daughter

I defy anyone to listen to it without being greatly moved by her words and devotion to her Father

'The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again, it already is' and the congregration break into spontaneous applause.

What a way to shame Trump

A bit over emotional but powerful nonetheless

She has just lost her Father. How can anyone be over emotional

I have been to plenty of funerals where children have given rather calmer eulogies of their parents.

Meghan McCain has a talk show and is now a celebrity in her own right

ydoethur

Stereotomy said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

Surely that's the same for most people accused of a crime who are named pre-trial? There will always be people who believe the accusations regardless.

As an example, if you look in the right places you'll find people who believe that the British man Elon Musk accused of being a 'pedo' is one, simply because Musk said so, and Musk is such a God that he can't be wrong, or must know something.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

For something like theft or murder, there is always the possibility of proving innocence through alibi, or through someone else being found guilty. For example, if I am accused of shooting somebody dead in Alfreton and at the moment the shot was fired CCTV footage puts me in Bristol, anyone who claims I got off because of a bent judge or I was lucky is quite clearly not only insane but also asking to be sued for defamation and be placed under restraint. Or, if I am charged with burgling Chatsworth despite the fact my fingerprints are not there and I have no stolen goods, and then a few days later somebody else who I've no connection to is found to have a huge collection of Charsworth items and his fingerprints are all over the door handles, then again the case collapses (unless you are a particular sergeant in a police force in the south of England, who shall be nameless, who has never let things like the evidence stop him from trying his damndest for a conviction).

But in a sexual assault allegation involving people who are acquainted it becomes very much 'he said/she said,' and proving anything is damn near impossible.

Okay, and what if innocence in the theft isn't proven, you're just found not guilty? Or what if the sexual assault allegation was based on an encounter that never happened at all, and you have an alibi for that? This seems like a really tortured line of reasoning

I think you misunderstand. What I am saying is there is no possibility in such a case as Salmond's of his being cleared past all possible doubt, whereas there are ways that could happen in other cases. I don't dispute that there often is a remaining stigma where the accused is found 'not guilty' after a court hearing.

HYUFD

Lieberman giving a more sober and serious address now

YBarddCwsc

ydoethur said:

YBarddCwsc said:

It does seem remarkable to me that the Sergeant allegations are still secret, and the names of the complainants still unknown. Presumably this information will remain hidden.

Well, yes. Why would it be shared? I can see no reason to share it now and a great many reasons not to.

The only thing that might change my mind is if a police investigation established the allegations were false, like those made by 'Nick' against Harvey Procter and the others. But I doubt if one will be held now.

A man is dead. The circumstances surrounding his state of mind and his suicide should be examined.

Of course, the Sergeant family (& also some Welsh Labour politicians) allege that Sergeant was the victim of bullying. The (allegedly) false accusations were part of the tactics that the bullies used.

Who knows where the truth lies?

But, I really can’t see how the truth can even be established without knowing a good deal more about the allegations (which will now not even be investigated to establish whether there was a case to answer).

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

What a beautiful and intense eulogy from John McCain's daughter

I defy anyone to listen to it without being greatly moved by her words and devotion to her Father

'The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again, it already is' and the congregration break into spontaneous applause.

What a way to shame Trump

A bit over emotional but powerful nonetheless

She has just lost her Father. How can anyone be over emotional

I have been to plenty of funerals where children have given rather calmer eulogies of their parents.

Meghan McCain has a talk show and is now a celebrity in her own right

Sometimes you need a heart. Not cold analysis

Stereotomy

ydoethur said:

Stereotomy said:

ydoethur said:

JosiasJessop said:

ydoethur said:

The problem is 'establishing his innocence beyond doubt' seems very unlikely. The only realistic way that could be done is to show he couldn't have met the complainants at any time, and that's going to be impossible if they are as claimed government officials.

So there will always be a no smoke without fire stigma.

Surely that's the same for most people accused of a crime who are named pre-trial? There will always be people who believe the accusations regardless.

As an example, if you look in the right places you'll find people who believe that the British man Elon Musk accused of being a 'pedo' is one, simply because Musk said so, and Musk is such a God that he can't be wrong, or must know something.

Wink wink, nudge nudge.

For something like theft or murder, there is always the possibility of proving innocence through alibi, or through someone else being found guilty. For example, if I am accused of shooting somebody dead in Alfreton and at the moment the shot was fired CCTV footage puts me in Bristol, anyone who claims I got off because of a bent judge or I was lucky is quite clearly not only insane but also asking to be sued for defamation and be placed under restraint. Or, if I am charged with burgling Chatsworth despite the fact my fingerprints are not there and I have no stolen goods, and then a few days later somebody else who I've no connection to is found to have a huge collection of Charsworth items and his fingerprints are all over the door handles, then again the case collapses (unless you are a particular sergeant in a police force in the south of England, who shall be nameless, who has never let things like the evidence stop him from trying his damndest for a conviction).

But in a sexual assault allegation involving people who are acquainted it becomes very much 'he said/she said,' and proving anything is damn near impossible.

Okay, and what if innocence in the theft isn't proven, you're just found not guilty? Or what if the sexual assault allegation was based on an encounter that never happened at all, and you have an alibi for that? This seems like a really tortured line of reasoning

I think you misunderstand. What I am saying is there is no possibility in such a case as Salmond's of his being cleared past all possible doubt, whereas there are ways that could happen in other cases. I don't dispute that there often is a remaining stigma where the accused is found 'not guilty' after a court hearing.

Ah, I didn't read back far enough and assumed you were arguing for anonymity in sexual assault cases. Apologies if you weren't.

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Lieberman giving a more sober and serious address now

Ok - lets make it a business meeting shall we

HYUFD

JPJ2 said:

HYUFD

Your analysis makes no sense (are you engaging in wishful thinking?).

If Salmond is found guilty in a court of law why would the party split? Would it be into a group favouring the activity for which he has been convicted and into one opposed to his actions? :-) Again I recommend Chris Cairns cartoon ay "Wings" to those with open minds on the likely effect-not you, HYFUD, obviously :-)

As it is symptomatic of a wider split within the SNP with the more diehard nationalists behind Salmond thinking Sturgeon is not doing enough to push indyref2 and independence while Sturgeon is more focused on governing Scotland

ydoethur

Stereotomy said:

Ah, I didn't read back far enough and assumed you were arguing for anonymity in sexual assault cases. Apologies if you weren't.

I think there is a case for anonymity in such cases, for this reason, until formal charges are laid. But that wasn't as it happens the point I was making. I was saying quite simply that whatever happens Salmond will never be able to live this down.

ydoethur

YBarddCwsc said:

ydoethur said:

YBarddCwsc said:

It does seem remarkable to me that the Sergeant allegations are still secret, and the names of the complainants still unknown. Presumably this information will remain hidden.

Well, yes. Why would it be shared? I can see no reason to share it now and a great many reasons not to.

The only thing that might change my mind is if a police investigation established the allegations were false, like those made by 'Nick' against Harvey Procter and the others. But I doubt if one will be held now.

A man is dead. The circumstances surrounding his state of mind and his suicide should be examined.

Of course, the Sergeant family (& also some Welsh Labour politicians) allege that Sergeant was the victim of bullying. The (allegedly) false accusations were part of the tactics that the bullies used.

Who knows where the truth lies?

But, I really can’t see how the truth can even be established without knowing a good deal more about the allegations (which will now not even be investigated to establish whether there was a case to answer).

Yes, I see your point. I just don't see what good such an investigation would do at this moment. We had one into Greville Janner if you will remember and it turned into a faintly bizarre witch hunt.

surby

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do write shite some most of the time.

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/evanhd/status/1035873212398272513?s=21

Theuniondivvie

JPJ2 said:

HYUFD

Your analysis makes no sense (are you engaging in wishful thinking?).

Surely not!

HYUFD

surby said:

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do write shite some most of the time.

If I write stuff which annoys nats all to the good

Stereotomy

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

What a beautiful and intense eulogy from John McCain's daughter

I defy anyone to listen to it without being greatly moved by her words and devotion to her Father

'The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again, it already is' and the congregration break into spontaneous applause.

What a way to shame Trump

A bit over emotional but powerful nonetheless

She has just lost her Father. How can anyone be over emotional

I have been to plenty of funerals where children have given rather calmer eulogies of their parents.

Meghan McCain has a talk show and is now a celebrity in her own right

Not sure what your point is. I'm no fan of either McCain, and I think John McCain shares a significant portion of blame for the Trump presidency. But it's a funeral.

HYUFD

Lieberman says McCain originally offered him the VP slot in 2008

CarlottaVance

HYUFD said:

JPJ2 said:

Unlike Parnell, Salmond has already ceased to be leader, and is no longer even an elected member of parliament. This will dilute the effect of any negative impact.

If anyone really wants to see an accurate assessment of the likely effect on the next Independence referendum, I strongly suggest viewing Chris Cairns cartoon today on the "Wings" blog :-)

The Cairns cartoon misses the point, it is the Attorney General of the Scottish Government considering whether to bring charges against Salmond not Westminster

Whoa there cowboy!

The Scottish Police have been given a report from the Scottish government. We don’t know if they’ve interviewed anyone - they may not even do that. If they do I doubt we’ll hear about it until Eck is interviewed. Then the Procurator Fiscal decides whether charges should be laid.

It has got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Scottish government - who appear to have handled this entirely correctly so far (unless Eck wins his case).

CarlottaVance

[They say that ]great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events and small minds discuss people.

Usually attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt.

Agree with Mr Meeks. The mystery to me with Salmond is why launch the legal case? I suppose we’ll know more when it reaches the Court. In government his record of going to court wasn’t entirely happy....

HYUFD

CarlottaVance said:

HYUFD said:

JPJ2 said:

Unlike Parnell, Salmond has already ceased to be leader, and is no longer even an elected member of parliament. This will dilute the effect of any negative impact.

If anyone really wants to see an accurate assessment of the likely effect on the next Independence referendum, I strongly suggest viewing Chris Cairns cartoon today on the "Wings" blog :-)

The Cairns cartoon misses the point, it is the Attorney General of the Scottish Government considering whether to bring charges against Salmond not Westminster

Whoa there cowboy!

The Scottish Police have been given a report from the Scottish government. We don’t know if they’ve interviewed anyone - they may not even do that. If they do I doubt we’ll hear about it until Eck is interviewed. Then the Procurator Fiscal decides whether charges should be laid.

It has got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Scottish government - who appear to have handled this entirely correctly so far (unless Eck wins his case).

James Wolffe QC the Lord Advocate of Scotland in Sturgeon's Cabinet advised the Salmond case should be sent to police

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/scotlands-top-law-officer-advised-government-to-send-alex-salmond-misconduct-claims-to-police/

The Procurator Fiscal's office is part of the Scottish Government too

HYUFD

Kissinger speaking now

CarlottaVance

ydoethur said:

Stereotomy said:

Ah, I didn't read back far enough and assumed you were arguing for anonymity in sexual assault cases. Apologies if you weren't.

I think there is a case for anonymity in such cases, for this reason, until formal charges are laid. But that wasn't as it happens the point I was making. I was saying quite simply that whatever happens Salmond will never be able to live this down.

I think he has made his own situation worse by launching the case against the Scottish government and crowdfunding it.

Wiser to have simply said “I have been informed of allegations which I unequivocally reject and look forward to cooperating with any Police investigation. Once that is completed I believe the process the Scottish government has followed is seriously flawed and will be exploring all available avenues to gain redress.

Instead he’s made his hurt feelings appear more important to him than resolving allegations of assault.

Theuniondivvie

HYUFD said:

surby said:

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do write shite some most of the time.

If I write stuff which annoys nats all to the good

Hey, we Nats love it when Yoons, even the diddy ones, spout shite.

Big_G_NorthWales

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do write shite some most of the time.

If I write stuff which annoys nats all to the good

Hey, we Nats love it when Yoons, even the diddy ones, spout shite.

Problem is he writes stuff that annoys his fellow conservatives

Theuniondivvie

Who could she mean?

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1035900877184196608

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do write shite some most of the time.

If I write stuff which annoys nats all to the good

Hey, we Nats love it when Yoons, even the diddy ones, spout shite.

Problem is he writes stuff that annoys his fellow conservatives

No harm in that either and the gulf between conservatives like TSE and to a lesser extent yourself and the likes of Archer and SeanF and SeanT on this site is a big one. I am probably further right than you but not as right as Archer and on economic issues probably more centrist than TSE

AndyJS

"David Blunkett
The thuggery of the 'Corbyn project' will lead the Labour Party into total irrelevance"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/08/31/thuggery-corbyn-project-will-lead-labour-party-total-irrelevance/

williamglenn

Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035905988682018816

CarlottaVance

HYUFD said:

CarlottaVance said:

HYUFD said:

JPJ2 said:

Unlike Parnell, Salmond has already ceased to be leader, and is no longer even an elected member of parliament. This will dilute the effect of any negative impact.

If anyone really wants to see an accurate assessment of the likely effect on the next Independence referendum, I strongly suggest viewing Chris Cairns cartoon today on the "Wings" blog :-)

The Cairns cartoon misses the point, it is the Attorney General of the Scottish Government considering whether to bring charges against Salmond not Westminster

James Wolffe QC the Lord Advocate of Scotland in Sturgeon's Cabinet advised the Salmond case should be sent to police

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/scotlands-top-law-officer-advised-government-to-send-alex-salmond-misconduct-claims-to-police/

The Procurator Fiscal's office is part of the Scottish Government too

HYUFD said:

CarlottaVance said:

HYUFD said:

JPJ2 said:

Unlike Parnell, Salmond has already ceased to be leader, and is no longer even an elected member of parliament. This will dilute the effect of any negative impact.

If anyone really wants to see an accurate assessment of the likely effect on the next Independence referendum, I strongly suggest viewing Chris Cairns cartoon today on the "Wings" blog :-)

The Cairns cartoon misses the point, it is the Attorney General of the Scottish Government considering whether to bring charges against Salmond not Westminster

Whoa there cowboy!

The Scottish Police have been given a report from the Scottish government. We don’t know if they’ve interviewed anyone - they may not even do that. If they do I doubt we’ll hear about it until Eck is interviewed. Then the Procurator Fiscal decides whether charges should be laid.

It has got absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Scottish government - who appear to have handled this entirely correctly so far (unless Eck wins his case).

James Wolffe QC the Lord Advocate of Scotland in Sturgeon's Cabinet advised the Salmond case should be sent to police

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/scotlands-top-law-officer-advised-government-to-send-alex-salmond-misconduct-claims-to-police/

The Procurator Fiscal's office is part of the Scottish Government too

The Lord Advocate will not “bring charges” against anyone......he only referred the matter to the police, who may, or may not pursue things.

Theuniondivvie

williamglenn said:

Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035905988682018816

https://twitter.com/thecinemasnob/status/1035907773551321088

Big_G_NorthWales

Theuniondivvie said:

Who could she mean?

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1035900877184196608

Her eulogy was intense and directly attacked the abysmal Trump with these words

The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again and the congregation broke into spontaneous applause

HYUFD

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

HYUFD

George W Bush now speaking

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

Trump is not fit to be present

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do write shite some most of the time.

If I write stuff which annoys nats all to the good

Hey, we Nats love it when Yoons, even the diddy ones, spout shite.

Problem is he writes stuff that annoys his fellow conservatives

No harm in that either and the gulf between conservatives like TSE and to a lesser extent yourself and the likes of Archer and SeanF and SeanT on this site is a big one. I am probably further right than you but not as right as Archer and on economic issues probably more centrist than TSE

Archer is way off my radar and on the opposite side of the world. You are further right than me but I do not criticise you for that, it is more you do tend to put your foot in it with some of your comments

ydoethur

Theuniondivvie said:

williamglenn said:

Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035905988682018816

https://twitter.com/thecinemasnob/status/1035907773551321088

To quote Han Solo, 'I like this guy.'

Sunil_Prasannan

FrancisUrquhart said:

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

Come on England!

[Sunil suddenly clutches his head screaming, as his Tebbit Chip kicks in! Before a more servile expression crosses his face... ]

Must be loyal to India... must be loyal...

ydoethur

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theuniondivvie said:

HYUFD said:

surby said:

HYUFD said:

If the Scottish Government bring charges against Salmond and he is convicted it would split the Nationalists and likely see a new more vociferously pro independence party split from the SNP and likely ensure a Unionist First Minister in 2021 through nationalist splits on the constituency vote

You do write shite some most of the time.

If I write stuff which annoys nats all to the good

Hey, we Nats love it when Yoons, even the diddy ones, spout shite.

Problem is he writes stuff that annoys his fellow conservatives

No harm in that either and the gulf between conservatives like TSE and to a lesser extent yourself and the likes of Archer and SeanF and SeanT on this site is a big one. I am probably further right than you but not as right as Archer and on economic issues probably more centrist than TSE

Archer is way off my radar and on the opposite side of the world. You are further right than me but I do not criticise you for that, it is more you do tend to put your foot in it with some of your comments

Hyufd has an unfortunate obsession with bees.

Boris, Bernie, Biden...

I fear it leads him to get stung.

Sunil_Prasannan

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Who could she mean?

https://twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1035900877184196608

Her eulogy was intense and directly attacked the abysmal Trump with these words

The America of John McCain does not need to be made great again and the congregation broke into spontaneous applause

RIP McCain, if only he won in 2000.

HYUFD

Obama now speaking too, along with Bush also a former presidential election opponent of McCain's

ydoethur

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

Come on England!

[Sunil suddenly clutches his head screaming, as his Tebbit Chip kicks in! Before a more servile expression crosses his face... ]

Must be loyal to India... must be loyal...

At this moment your chip must be in a deathly state of confusion. This test looks to be almost exactly even. One wicket or thirty runs either way in the next hour could well be crucial.

Cyclefree

Interesting header.

But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

ydoethur

India lose their last review.

Could that tip matters England's way?

Nigelb

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

That qualifying session was rather tight.

Vettel's tone over the radio does suggest he might have someone executed.

Perhaps not the most sporting of reactions.
Was he expecting his wingman to know his place ?

Tim_B

ydoethur said:

Theuniondivvie said:

williamglenn said:

Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035905988682018816

https://twitter.com/thecinemasnob/status/1035907773551321088

To quote Han Solo, 'I like this guy.'

He was indeed a great man. His military record is without blemish and admirable, His congressional time was marked by his matching to the sound of his own drummer, but always faithful to his inner voice.

he only had really two blemishes - not too long after his return from Viet Nam he left his wife and 3 young children for a woman 18 years his junior. Considering 3 years of solitary and torture, any marriage would would hard put to survive the challenges. His other blemish was his involvement with the Keating Five.

If that's the worst in an eventful and consequential 81 year old life, then he was indeed a great man, with much to admire.

Sandpit

Nigelb said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good afternoon, everyone.

That qualifying session was rather tight.

Vettel's tone over the radio does suggest he might have someone executed.

Perhaps not the most sporting of reactions.
Was he expecting his wingman to know his place ?

Yes.

HYUFD

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

Trump is not fit to be present

He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him

williamglenn

Former Rolls-Royce chairman and Conservative donor calls for second referendum

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/conservative-party-donor-calls-for-second-brexit-vote

Nigelb

ydoethur said:

India lose their last review.

Could that tip matters England's way?

Don’t be ridiculous... or tempt fate like that.

(I was about to say this pair seem to be settling into the rhythms of test cricket, but checked myself expressing so ludicrous a thought.)

Nigelb

Now see what we did.

Nigelb

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

Trump is not fit to be present

He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him

He is also not fit to be President.

AndyJS

"Emily Benn threatens to quit Labour Party over trolls
The granddaughter of Labour stalwart Tony Benn has called on Jeremy Corbyn to condemn abuse following anti-Semitism allegations."
https://news.sky.com/story/emily-benn-threatens-to-quit-labour-party-over-trolls-11487445

ydoethur

Tim_B said:

ydoethur said:

Theuniondivvie said:

williamglenn said:

Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035905988682018816

https://twitter.com/thecinemasnob/status/1035907773551321088

To quote Han Solo, 'I like this guy.'

He was indeed a great man. His military record is without blemish and admirable, His congressional time was marked by his matching to the sound of his own drummer, but always faithful to his inner voice.

he only had really two blemishes - not too long after his return from Viet Nam he left his wife and 3 young children for a woman 18 years his junior. Considering 3 years of solitary and torture, any marriage would would hard put to survive the challenges. His other blemish was his involvement with the Keating Five.

If that's the worst in an eventful and consequential 81 year old life, then he was indeed a great man, with much to admire.

That is all true.

But actually I was referring to the person who wrote that withering tweet. Trump will right now be fuming.

Sunil_Prasannan

ydoethur said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

What no thread on England batting collapsing again?

Come on England!

[Sunil suddenly clutches his head screaming, as his Tebbit Chip kicks in! Before a more servile expression crosses his face... ]

Must be loyal to India... must be loyal...

At this moment your chip must be in a deathly state of confusion. This test looks to be almost exactly even. One wicket or thirty runs either way in the next hour could well be crucial.

Well, I was only kidding!

Just on my way back to London after adding Clarbeston Road to Fishguard, also managing to do the Carmarthen by-pass westbound and the Swansea by-pass (ie. the one running past Landore Depot) eastbound.

ydoethur

Nigelb said:

Now see what we did.

You muppet, what were you thinking?

Now it's just the bowlers and you know that none of them can even hold a bloody bat. 151 just isn't enough for a side that includes Kohli!

Sunil_Prasannan

ydoethur said:

Theuniondivvie said:

williamglenn said:

Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035905988682018816

https://twitter.com/thecinemasnob/status/1035907773551321088

To quote Han Solo, 'I like this guy.'

You're quoting The Force Awakens??

Yorkcity

Cyclefree said:

Interesting header.

But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

Thought the header was about Salmond ?

You seem obsessed with Corbyn.

ydoethur

Sunil_Prasannan said:

ydoethur said:

Theuniondivvie said:

williamglenn said:

Meanwhile...
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1035905988682018816

https://twitter.com/thecinemasnob/status/1035907773551321088

To quote Han Solo, 'I like this guy.'

You're quoting The Force Awakens??

And why not?

It's The Last Jedi that was unwatchable.

The Force Awakens was just unoriginal.

Nigelb

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

Now see what we did.

You muppet, what were you thinking?

Now it's just the bowlers and you know that none of them can even hold a bloody bat. 151 just isn't enough for a side that includes Kohli!

I am saying nothing, you bozo.

HYUFD

Nigelb said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

Trump is not fit to be present

He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him

He is also not fit to be President.

That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016

ydoethur

Nigelb said:

ydoethur said:

Nigelb said:

Now see what we did.

You muppet, what were you thinking?

Now it's just the bowlers and you know that none of them can even hold a bloody bat. 151 just isn't enough for a side that includes Kohli!

I am saying nothing, you bozo.

Oi!

That's Krusty if you don't mind...

HYUFD

williamglenn said:

Former Rolls-Royce chairman and Conservative donor calls for second referendum

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/conservative-party-donor-calls-for-second-brexit-vote

Big Business leader wants second EU referendum, no surprise there, Big Business overwhelmingly backed Remain in 2016

nielh

Cyclefree said:

Interesting header.

But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

this was exactly my reaction. Corbyn is not in any way a social Democrat. he is a democratic socialist.

ydoethur

HYUFD said:

Nigelb said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

Trump is not fit to be present

He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him

He is also not fit to be President.

That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016

But not a majority of votes. In fact I think I'm right in saying he lost the popular vote by a wider margin than any other elected president.

Big_G_NorthWales

HYUFD said:

Nigelb said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

Trump is not fit to be present

He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him

He is also not fit to be President.

That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016

Does not alter the fact he is not fit to be president. John McCain's funeral demonstrated the best of America and it was entirely fitting he was not there. He must be voted out and the sooner the better

surby

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Former Rolls-Royce chairman and Conservative donor calls for second referendum

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/conservative-party-donor-calls-for-second-brexit-vote

Big Business leader wants second EU referendum, no surprise there, Big Business overwhelmingly backed Remain in 2016

So did you.

RobD

surby said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Former Rolls-Royce chairman and Conservative donor calls for second referendum

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/conservative-party-donor-calls-for-second-brexit-vote

Big Business leader wants second EU referendum, no surprise there, Big Business overwhelmingly backed Remain in 2016

So did you.

HYUFD overwhelmingly backed Remain?

Big_G_NorthWales

surby said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

Former Rolls-Royce chairman and Conservative donor calls for second referendum

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/01/conservative-party-donor-calls-for-second-brexit-vote

Big Business leader wants second EU referendum, no surprise there, Big Business overwhelmingly backed Remain in 2016

So did you.

Touche

surby

HYUFD said:

Nigelb said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

HYUFD said:

As Amazing Grace plays at the McCain memorial the Bushes, Clintons, Obamas, Gores and Cheneys all there, just one rather notable absentee

Trump is not fit to be present

He is the elected President of the USA but if McCain did not want him there that was up to him

He is also not fit to be President.

That is up to the American voters to decide, Trump won a majority of US states in 2016

You mean, he won the electoral college and lost the votes. Many losing Republican candidates have won the majority of US states and lost the election.

rottenborough

AndyJS said:

"Emily Benn threatens to quit Labour Party over trolls
The granddaughter of Labour stalwart Tony Benn has called on Jeremy Corbyn to condemn abuse following anti-Semitism allegations."
https://news.sky.com/story/emily-benn-threatens-to-quit-labour-party-over-trolls-11487445

This nightmare Cult is going to eat itself isn't it? Tony Benn is supposed to be the Godfather of all this, yet the nutters are attacking his granddaughter.

As Sacks said the other day, 'its starts with the jews, but never ends there.'

surby

Yorkcity said:

Cyclefree said:

Interesting header.

But Corbyn is no social democrat. Socialism is what he wants to bring

Thought the header was about Salmond ?

You seem obsessed with Corbyn.

Wrong. She is obsessed with anyone who does not agree with her view of Israel.