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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: What Chance a US-UK Free Trade Deal

SystemSystem Posts: 11,017
edited September 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: What Chance a US-UK Free Trade Deal

Brexit is approaching. And with it – in President Trump’s mind – comes an opportunity for a transatlantic free trade deal, bringing together the World’s two largest English speaking democracies. Atlantacists in Britain are excited, those who believe we should be supping with the Europeans are scared.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    First! Like Leave, Mrs May & No.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,850
    2nd Referendum no chance
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    Nice video.

    A point to add, perhaps, is that an FTA with America could not actually be that much better than we already have as members of the EU. There is no EU/US FTA but generally tariffs are low (except when hiked by the president to MAGA) so there is not much to be gained, and that is true in both directions.

    There are more non-tariff barriers but as RCS's video explains, we probably quite like those. And if an FTA includes so-called local content rules (or almost any rules) then there will have to be customs inspections to check those rules are met, which makes trade just a bit slower and more expensive.

    But suppose we could agree a magical FTA with the United States that is balanced in our favour, not theirs, well, so what? America is bleeding miles away and so will never match the trade volumes we have with European nations. Even this hypothetical FTA could not compensate for the harm that will be done by Brexit in making trade with the EU slower and more expensive.
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    OT for some reason I always have to make my first comment twice for it to show up once via pb so apologies if you see it twice through Vanilla.
  • Options
    Another great video - like the use of visuals again - apart from your $40 Amazon green screen what are you using to edit, if you don't mind me asking?

    On the substance, I suspect the benefit of 'independent trade deals' was oversold by LEAVE. And looks like Canada will be able to remove those US petrol additives and label GM foods as Trump excludes them from NAFTA.....
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    Trump frets about FAKE NEWS and tweets Breitbart...

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1036023767489814528
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263

    Nice video.

    A point to add, perhaps, is that an FTA with America could not actually be that much better than we already have as members of the EU. There is no EU/US FTA but generally tariffs are low (except when hiked by the president to MAGA) so there is not much to be gained, and that is true in both directions.

    There are more non-tariff barriers but as RCS's video explains, we probably quite like those. And if an FTA includes so-called local content rules (or almost any rules) then there will have to be customs inspections to check those rules are met, which makes trade just a bit slower and more expensive.

    But suppose we could agree a magical FTA with the United States that is balanced in our favour, not theirs, well, so what? America is bleeding miles away and so will never match the trade volumes we have with European nations. Even this hypothetical FTA could not compensate for the harm that will be done by Brexit in making trade with the EU slower and more expensive.

    "Not actually be much better"?

    We could end up with worse, given our more limited negotiating power. The US will want a deal that suits itself, even before factoring Trump and his posturing.
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    This nation is obsessed..... After last night's pepperoni and pineapple craze in ny.. Today at the Yankees game... The big question for the yankees players during an innings break.

    Pineapple on pizza, yes or no?
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    Nick Boles is now backing EFTA/EEA instead of Chequers.

    Actually he is backing EFTA/EEA only as a bridge to CETA. Which would be a reasonable idea except that we can’t trust our politicians not to make this temporary status permanent. If only they had accepted the referendum result this might have been an option, but not now.
    If you believed in your plan, you would be confident of winning people over as a result of its successful implementation. The fact that you want people to sign up in blood in advance just broadcasts your doubts.
    We already won people over to our plan. We won the referendum.

    CETA is the only plan that will command majority support in the UK and HoC. Which is why May won’t even try for it. If you want to Remain in all but name, make sure the plan that will mean that we can Leave as we were promised is not even discussed.
    As a professional politician, why would May actively suppress an option that was both deliverable and electorally popular? One or both of those things is not true as she sees it.
    Pretty easy. Firstly, she is a Remainer who listens to Olly Robbins. CETA would mean permanent exit from the EU and the divergence would never be reversible. Once we have CETA we will never rejoin.

    Secondly, May made a disastrous mistake in December on the backstop. She is too stubborn to admit she was played by Barnier. So she will go to her grave saying that the NI border issue makes genuine Brexit impossible. But it is a lie and always has been a lie. The backstop is just the mechanism for the EU to get whatever it wants in the withdrawal agreement and then reverse all its promises on the trade agreement on the grounds that it doesn’t solve NI.

    Only a traitor, or a moron, enters a negotiation by saying that the opponent can have a backstop that gives them everything they want if there is no agreement. Your call as to which.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
    FPT...
    Nigelb said:



    McCain’s politics were far from mine, and he from time to time displayed shockingly bad judgment (& by account was a crap pilot), but he was an undeniably decent guy, which has become a rare thing in today’s Republican party.

    USN aviation is a hard school and there were no "crap" pilots flying Spads and Scooters off a carrier on ops.

    JMcC's record as a Buckeye squadron commander AFTER he'd been nearly killed on the Forrestal and in that bamboo cage for 5+ years was excellent.

    He was possibly (probably) reckless as a junior pilot but the best of us always were. As a lowly S/Lt I once decided to give my parents' house in North Yorkshire a fly by in a Hawk one Sunday morning. And, according to my mother, "flew past the kitchen window".
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    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    Nigelb said:



    McCain’s politics were far from mine, and he from time to time displayed shockingly bad judgment (& by account was a crap pilot), but he was an undeniably decent guy, which has become a rare thing in today’s Republican party.

    USN aviation is a hard school and there were no "crap" pilots flying Spads and Scooters off a carrier on ops.

    JMcC's record as a Buckeye squadron commander AFTER he'd been nearly killed on the Forrestal and in that bamboo cage for 5+ years was excellent.

    He was possibly (probably) reckless as a junior pilot but the best of us always were. As a lowly S/Lt I once decided to give my parents' house in North Yorkshire a fly by in a Hawk one Sunday morning. And, according to my mother, "flew past the kitchen window".
    That's fascinating.
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    Good morning, everyone.

    I'm not all that fussed about a deal with the US. We seem to trade with them just fine as it is.
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    Dura_Ace said:
    Er, how else are you supposed to file constituent letters?
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    Dura_Ace said:
    Er, how else are you supposed to file constituent letters?
    A shredder?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105

    Dura_Ace said:
    Er, how else are you supposed to file constituent letters?
    A shredder?
    Except constituents have the habit of sending you originals of documents.....

    There are lots of reasons to take the piss out of MPs. Their filing is probably in the bottom ten percent.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    A good and informative video that once again underlines how none of the people who agitated for so long to Leave had given the practical issues a moment's thought.
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    Robert makes good points about how difficult it will be to negotiate an FTA with the US, and FTAs generally.
    Yet he advocated Leave, didn't he?
    So, can I be reminded about the advantages?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    In case you missed Shaparak Khorsandi's Tweet:

    Truth is Nazanin was born in Iran so prominent/powerful types prone to nationalism ignored her plight. We needed Corbyn, we needed Khan but nah, they don’t wanna upset the mullahs. I’ll probably delete this tweet because I’m writing in a state of full on emotion but it’s true.
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    F1: some interesting special bets. Weighing up whether to back them or not. They are:
    Vettel win, Hamilton podium, Ricciardo top 6, Perez points, all together at 6.

    I think the first three are pretty likely (Vettel is favourite for the win and I was considering backing Ricciardo to be top 6 and 1.9. Perez climbing from a Q1 departure to points might be tricky.

    There's also Vettel win, Ricciardo top 6, Magnussen+Perez points and over 15.5 finishers, at 13. Magnussen and Perez both getting points is trickier still, especially with the finishers aspect.
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    How I hate airports...
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    F1: some interesting special bets. Weighing up whether to back them or not. They are:
    Vettel win, Hamilton podium, Ricciardo top 6, Perez points, all together at 6.

    I think the first three are pretty likely (Vettel is favourite for the win and I was considering backing Ricciardo to be top 6 and 1.9. Perez climbing from a Q1 departure to points might be tricky.

    There's also Vettel win, Ricciardo top 6, Magnussen+Perez points and over 15.5 finishers, at 13. Magnussen and Perez both getting points is trickier still, especially with the finishers aspect.

    I’m wary of backing Ricciardo for top 6 at short odds, think he’ll struggle to pass the Force Indias and Haases which have more powerful engines and are faster in a straight line. Assuming everyone gets around the first lap a safety car is unlikely here.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Robert makes good points about how difficult it will be to negotiate an FTA with the US, and FTAs generally.
    Yet he advocated Leave, didn't he?
    So, can I be reminded about the advantages?

    Blue passports?
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    How I hate airports...

    My wife and I entirely agree. Indeed when we returned from Barcelona this June we decided that our flying days are over. Mind you we have flown extensively over the last 15 years
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    Foxy said:

    Robert makes good points about how difficult it will be to negotiate an FTA with the US, and FTAs generally.
    Yet he advocated Leave, didn't he?
    So, can I be reminded about the advantages?

    Blue passports?
    Inundation of toads and plague of locusts been cancelled?
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
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    Mr. Sandpit, it'll be interesting to see how Ricciardo does. Worth noting Verstappen was a few tenths ahead of the midfield and that was with a relative loss of performance in qualifying due to engine modes that can't be run constantly in the race.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Foxy said:

    Robert makes good points about how difficult it will be to negotiate an FTA with the US, and FTAs generally.
    Yet he advocated Leave, didn't he?
    So, can I be reminded about the advantages?

    Blue passports?
    Inundation of toads and plague of locusts been cancelled?
    I have never been one for Project Fear, I expect Brexit to be a whimper not a bang.

    Most likely BINO via a Transition agreement without an agreed FTA.
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    Just done a ConHome survey. Why is it that I am never enthused with these surveys, maybe because they are coming from the right of the party, ie hard Brexit
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Just done a ConHome survey. Why is it that I am never enthused with these surveys, maybe because they are coming from the right of the party, ie hard Brexit

    I did one for the LD's the other day on expanding the franchise to "registered supporters" and having a leader outside Parliament. The questions were heavily tilted in favour.

    It just annoyed me further about the foolish proposal.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541
    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    Nigelb said:



    McCain’s politics were far from mine, and he from time to time displayed shockingly bad judgment (& by account was a crap pilot), but he was an undeniably decent guy, which has become a rare thing in today’s Republican party.

    USN aviation is a hard school and there were no "crap" pilots flying Spads and Scooters off a carrier on ops.

    JMcC's record as a Buckeye squadron commander AFTER he'd been nearly killed on the Forrestal and in that bamboo cage for 5+ years was excellent.

    He was possibly (probably) reckless as a junior pilot but the best of us always were. As a lowly S/Lt I once decided to give my parents' house in North Yorkshire a fly by in a Hawk one Sunday morning. And, according to my mother, "flew past the kitchen window".
    Fair enough.
    For better or worse (the choice of Palin, for example), never seemed to have lost that reckless streak.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Mr. Sandpit, it'll be interesting to see how Ricciardo does. Worth noting Verstappen was a few tenths ahead of the midfield and that was with a relative loss of performance in qualifying due to engine modes that can't be run constantly in the race.

    FYI the weather this morning is very cloudy, and the track is still a little damp after overnight rain. Weather forecasters, eh? GP3 race about to start.
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    Foxy said:

    Just done a ConHome survey. Why is it that I am never enthused with these surveys, maybe because they are coming from the right of the party, ie hard Brexit

    I did one for the LD's the other day on expanding the franchise to "registered supporters" and having a leader outside Parliament. The questions were heavily tilted in favour.

    It just annoyed me further about the foolish proposal.
    It does seem foolish, even dare I say desperate
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    Just done a ConHome survey. Why is it that I am never enthused with these surveys, maybe because they are coming from the right of the party, ie hard Brexit

    I did one for the LD's the other day on expanding the franchise to "registered supporters" and having a leader outside Parliament. The questions were heavily tilted in favour.

    It just annoyed me further about the foolish proposal.
    It does seem foolish, even dare I say desperate</blockquote

    Surely the LDs could be swamped by practically any entryist group looking for an existing party structure and base.
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    Britain's oldest woman, Olive Boar, has died at the age of 113

    Just wait until that becomes nearer the norm and the social provision needed
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    Mr. Sandpit, F1 weather forecasts this year seem to have been notably poor.
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    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    How I hate airports...

    Fly at 6 am its much better to do so
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,881

    Foxy said:

    Just done a ConHome survey. Why is it that I am never enthused with these surveys, maybe because they are coming from the right of the party, ie hard Brexit

    I did one for the LD's the other day on expanding the franchise to "registered supporters" and having a leader outside Parliament. The questions were heavily tilted in favour.

    It just annoyed me further about the foolish proposal.
    It does seem foolish, even dare I say desperate
    It’s like they noticed that Labour raised a load of money by allowing registered supporters, but failed to notice everything else that has happened to that party in recent years.
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    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    I was in Vienna this week and was reflecting that UK airports (or at least the London area ones) are actually not that bad compared to other European and American airports. Vienna for example had only two sitdown eating options once past passport control. Berlin Schoenefeld surprisingly is a particularly awful example of an airport.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Britain's oldest woman, Olive Boar, has died at the age of 113

    Just wait until that becomes nearer the norm and the social provision needed

    I don't think that it will ever be the norm, though for wealthy women the life expectancy is now above 85 years, and there will be more centenarians because there will be a spread about that age.

    More important is healthy life expectancy, but that is also quite class dependent. Those of us who live longer, also are in better health in those later years:

    https://twitter.com/HealthFdn/status/1036140425927634944?s=19

    Though in the UK, life expectancy is dropping for some groups:

    https://www.nhs.uk/news/medical-practice/uk-life-expectancy-drops-while-other-western-countries-improve/

    That reducing life expectancy is worse in Leave voting areas, but that economic stress is probably the cause rather than the result of voting Leave.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/life-expectancy-uk-plumments-ons-data-hartlepool-torridge-amber-valley-barnsley-a8164171.html

    A Brexit that fails to deliver for these areas is not likely to have many friends.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    Worse than Stansted? That’s quite an achievement. Although, to be fair if one goes straight past the shops and out to the boarding area it’s better. Of course, the gate has to have been ‘called’.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    Nigelb said:



    McCain’s politics were far from mine, and he from time to time displayed shockingly bad judgment (& by account was a crap pilot), but he was an undeniably decent guy, which has become a rare thing in today’s Republican party.

    USN aviation is a hard school and there were no "crap" pilots flying Spads and Scooters off a carrier on ops.

    JMcC's record as a Buckeye squadron commander AFTER he'd been nearly killed on the Forrestal and in that bamboo cage for 5+ years was excellent.

    He was possibly (probably) reckless as a junior pilot but the best of us always were. As a lowly S/Lt I once decided to give my parents' house in North Yorkshire a fly by in a Hawk one Sunday morning. And, according to my mother, "flew past the kitchen window".
    Fair enough.
    For better or worse (the choice of Palin, for example), never seemed to have lost that reckless streak.
    Read up on his relationship with his first wife the other day. Quite disliked him as a result.
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    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
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    houndtang said:

    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    I was in Vienna this week and was reflecting that UK airports (or at least the London area ones) are actually not that bad compared to other European and American airports. Vienna for example had only two sitdown eating options once past passport control. Berlin Schoenefeld surprisingly is a particularly awful example of an airport.
    Agree. And Heathrow is actually pretty good.
    Best in Europe in my experience are Zurich, Helsinki, Hamburg and Schiphol.
  • Options

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    Worse than Stansted? That’s quite an achievement. Although, to be fair if one goes straight past the shops and out to the boarding area it’s better. Of course, the gate has to have been ‘called’.
    At Luton the parking is awful, the place is a permanent building site, and there is standing room only after security, but the sushi is not bad at all.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
    No thanks. Rather go different places, see new things.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Not if your pension is in Sterling and lose FoM!

    Can I recommend the Isle of Wight instead?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263

    How I hate airports...

    Fly at 6 am its much better to do so
    At Stansted and Gatwick that's often the busiest time!
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    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
    No thanks. Rather go different places, see new things.
    Absolutely agree with you. I do not like to think how much our world wide travels have cost over the last 15 years but it would easily have bought a second home
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Newcastle Airport is my favourite UK airport. Small enough to not be really stressful but big enough to have good facilities, good parking and transport links and good destinations.

    It helps that I live 10 minutes from it!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    Worse than Stansted? That’s quite an achievement. Although, to be fair if one goes straight past the shops and out to the boarding area it’s better. Of course, the gate has to have been ‘called’.
    At Luton the parking is awful, the place is a permanent building site, and there is standing room only after security, but the sushi is not bad at all.
    Big issue at Stansted is the pick-up area. £2.50 for up to 10 minutes, and while there’s a small free area about 5 or so minutes away in the car, there’s always a queue to get in, out and find one’s passengers.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    Foxy said:

    Just done a ConHome survey. Why is it that I am never enthused with these surveys, maybe because they are coming from the right of the party, ie hard Brexit

    I did one for the LD's the other day on expanding the franchise to "registered supporters" and having a leader outside Parliament. The questions were heavily tilted in favour.

    It just annoyed me further about the foolish proposal.
    Yes, they have obviously hired some polling company in an attempt to get the right answer from members. It was however possible to return the response that the proposals are pants.
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    Newcastle Airport is my favourite UK airport. Small enough to not be really stressful but big enough to have good facilities, good parking and transport links and good destinations.

    It helps that I live 10 minutes from it!

    Almost nowhere to sit that isn't in a cafe or bar. No water fountains. Only positive is that it's not overly large
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    Nigelb said:



    McCain’s politics were far from mine, and he from time to time displayed shockingly bad judgment (& by account was a crap pilot), but he was an undeniably decent guy, which has become a rare thing in today’s Republican party.

    USN aviation is a hard school and there were no "crap" pilots flying Spads and Scooters off a carrier on ops.

    JMcC's record as a Buckeye squadron commander AFTER he'd been nearly killed on the Forrestal and in that bamboo cage for 5+ years was excellent.

    He was possibly (probably) reckless as a junior pilot but the best of us always were. As a lowly S/Lt I once decided to give my parents' house in North Yorkshire a fly by in a Hawk one Sunday morning. And, according to my mother, "flew past the kitchen window".
    Fair enough.
    For better or worse (the choice of Palin, for example), never seemed to have lost that reckless streak.
    Read up on his relationship with his first wife the other day. Quite disliked him as a result.
    Divorces are always rather bitter, and after 5 years in prison people change. Even fundamentally decent people have lots of suppressed rage and emotions after such trauma, and close family are often suffer when it is vented.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
    No thanks. Rather go different places, see new things.
    Absolutely agree with you. I do not like to think how much our world wide travels have cost over the last 15 years but it would easily have bought a second home
    We’ve got some Holiday Property Bonds. 20 places in UK, 13 in W.Europe and one in Turkey. Go any of them, any time one can get in, Admittedly can be difficult in high season, but if one is retired.....
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    FPT...

    Nigelb said:



    McCain’s politics were far from mine, and he from time to time displayed shockingly bad judgment (& by account was a crap pilot), but he was an undeniably decent guy, which has become a rare thing in today’s Republican party.

    USN aviation is a hard school and there were no "crap" pilots flying Spads and Scooters off a carrier on ops.

    JMcC's record as a Buckeye squadron commander AFTER he'd been nearly killed on the Forrestal and in that bamboo cage for 5+ years was excellent.

    He was possibly (probably) reckless as a junior pilot but the best of us always were. As a lowly S/Lt I once decided to give my parents' house in North Yorkshire a fly by in a Hawk one Sunday morning. And, according to my mother, "flew past the kitchen window".
    Fair enough.
    For better or worse (the choice of Palin, for example), never seemed to have lost that reckless streak.
    Read up on his relationship with his first wife the other day. Quite disliked him as a result.
    Divorces are always rather bitter, and after 5 years in prison people change. Even fundamentally decent people have lots of suppressed rage and emotions after such trauma, and close family are often suffer when it is vented.
    She wasn’t the woman, either. Had a nasty, disfiguring car crash. However he appears to have been a ‘bit of a lad’!
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
    No thanks. Rather go different places, see new things.
    Absolutely agree with you. I do not like to think how much our world wide travels have cost over the last 15 years but it would easily have bought a second home
    That is the pattern of modern consumerism, experiences rather than possessions. I am of similar mind. I have a major anniversary next year, and have always fancied Botswana.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    Worse than Stansted? That’s quite an achievement. Although, to be fair if one goes straight past the shops and out to the boarding area it’s better. Of course, the gate has to have been ‘called’.
    Stanstead used to be fine but the remodelling that leaves domestic arrivals being immediately funnelled out of the airport down a narrow dingy corridor and the post security 3 mile hike through the never ending shops is a huge blunder. The massive security area seems somehow to be more crowded and slower than the old security as well.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?
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    Foxy said:

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
    No thanks. Rather go different places, see new things.
    Absolutely agree with you. I do not like to think how much our world wide travels have cost over the last 15 years but it would easily have bought a second home
    That is the pattern of modern consumerism, experiences rather than possessions. I am of similar mind. I have a major anniversary next year, and have always fancied Botswana.
    Travel really does broaden your mind
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    The old debate about airline and airport preferences is always eclipsed by Dave Allen’s skit on flying.
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    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Comments like that make me wish I was a vegetarian.

    My granddaughter is a vegan and my family are consuming less meat as a whole
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    Crikey.

    "Drugs were found 13,119 times in prisons in England and Wales last year, the paper said - the equivalent of more than 35 incidents per day and three times the amount as in 2014.

    The Prison Officers Association (POA) said the value of the drug market in jail is around £100m"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45386076
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Foxy said:

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
    No thanks. Rather go different places, see new things.
    Absolutely agree with you. I do not like to think how much our world wide travels have cost over the last 15 years but it would easily have bought a second home
    That is the pattern of modern consumerism, experiences rather than possessions. I am of similar mind. I have a major anniversary next year, and have always fancied Botswana.
    Our travels have been somewhat focussed over the past few years, ever since we acquired family in Thailand. However, while there we have visited several countries in the region, and also come home ‘the pretty way’; via North America. And of course, being there makes getting to Australasia wasier.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,974
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    Worse than Stansted? That’s quite an achievement. Although, to be fair if one goes straight past the shops and out to the boarding area it’s better. Of course, the gate has to have been ‘called’.
    Stanstead used to be fine but the remodelling that leaves domestic arrivals being immediately funnelled out of the airport down a narrow dingy corridor and the post security 3 mile hike through the never ending shops is a huge blunder. The massive security area seems somehow to be more crowded and slower than the old security as well.
    Very true. Age has reduced my walking ability recently, and last time we came back I had to have several ‘breaks’. I’d have asked for a wheelchair, but I gather they are few and far between!
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,541

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Comments like that make me wish I was a vegetarian.

    My granddaughter is a vegan and my family are consuming less meat as a whole
    Supermarket salad is also chlorine washed.
    Less meat, particularly red, is a good idea for anyone’s health, and while it’s possible to eat healthily as a vegan, it’s also quite easy for your diet to be deficient in key nutrients.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    As Robert's video shows the issue of tribunals deciding on terms of any US UK free trade deal and local content rules, IP alignment issues etc means there will be a lot to negotiate and if the Democrats as is likely take one or both Chambers of Congress in November trying to get any deal through them and Trump will take time. Indeed given the EU has no US trade deal either the focus of both the UK and EU should be on getting a UK EU FTA as post Brexit the UK will be the EU's largest export market just as the EU will be the UK's largest export market. Then once that is completed the UK and EU can look to agree FTA's with the USA, which will post Brexit be their second largest export market
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,263
    Nigelb said:

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Comments like that make me wish I was a vegetarian.

    My granddaughter is a vegan and my family are consuming less meat as a whole
    Supermarket salad is also chlorine washed.
    Less meat, particularly red, is a good idea for anyone’s health, and while it’s possible to eat healthily as a vegan, it’s also quite easy for your diet to be deficient in key nutrients.
    Until the next piece of advice comes along:
    https://www.farminguk.com/News/Red-meat-and-dairy-good-for-a-healthy-diet-study-suggests_50143.html
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    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,994
    In other McCain news I was surprised to see Trump authorised 1st Airlift Squadron to move the coffin and its occupant in a C-32. Uncharacteristically magnanimous gesture...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986

    So here at Alicante airport a whole section of departures is being created for us. An additional passport check line, lots of queue barriers. And after we leave barbed wire and cattle prods...

    Spain is in danger of losing millions of Brits holidaying there. Plenty of places to go outside of the EU and cheaper
    Good. Will make it cheaper to buy in Spain!
    Sounds like a good socialist. A holiday home abroad maybe
    No thanks. Rather go different places, see new things.
    Absolutely agree with you. I do not like to think how much our world wide travels have cost over the last 15 years but it would easily have bought a second home
    We’ve got some Holiday Property Bonds. 20 places in UK, 13 in W.Europe and one in Turkey. Go any of them, any time one can get in, Admittedly can be difficult in high season, but if one is retired.....
    Yes my parents do that do and have sometimes joined them, it is a good idea especially if you are retired and can go off season too
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    IanB2 said:

    How I hate airports...

    Fly at 6 am its much better to do so
    At Stansted and Gatwick that's often the busiest time!
    the key thing is to check in online, hand luggage only and its generally a breeze therafter
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    edited September 2018
    Nigelb said:

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Comments like that make me wish I was a vegetarian.

    My granddaughter is a vegan and my family are consuming less meat as a whole
    Supermarket salad is also chlorine washed.
    Less meat, particularly red, is a good idea for anyone’s health, and while it’s possible to eat healthily as a vegan, it’s also quite easy for your diet to be deficient in key nutrients.
    It is not the chlorine per se that is the issue with US chicken, it is the lower standards of animal husbandry and poor slaughter technique as detailed in the video. That is why the surface contamination with chicken faeces is chlorine rinsed off. Mind you, I am not convinced that the chickens and prawns from Thailand are much better.

    The US forced Canada to stop labelling GMO produce, and may well insist on the same in any FTA here for GMOs chickens, hormone beef etc.
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    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    I am about to go and swim in some heavily chlorineated water. I’ll probably end up drinking some by accident.

    It’s not the chlorine that’s the problem, but the reason the chlorine is needed is. On the other hand, l take much more care over handling raw chicken than any other meat and always make sure it is fully cooked, as I’m not sure the chicken we get at the moment is much better.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,105
    I can't get very excited about whether a dead chicken is washed in chlorine or some other method that kills e. coli etc. - as long as they work.

    The much bigger issue is the living conditions of the chickens before they are killed. We should not compromise on the highest standards there.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited September 2018

    Britain's oldest woman, Olive Boar, has died at the age of 113

    Just wait until that becomes nearer the norm and the social provision needed

    It never will become the norm or at least certainly not in any of our lifetimes, plus remember of course Roberta McCain has lived to 106 only to see her son die before her which is not an uncommon occurrence for centenarians.

    At the moment UK average life expectancy is 81 and worldwide it is 70.
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    Time to return to Brexit.

    I’m confused again.
    I had assumed from noises off that we are close to a deal with with EU based on Chequers.

    However I see there is now a large faction pushing for “EFTA then CETA”, with the backing of Gove.

    Feels there are now four groups in the Tories.

    Chequers (Mayites)
    No deal ultras (Moggites)
    EFTA then CETA (Goveites)
    Remainers (Soubrettes).
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202
    McCain was, according to reports, in favour of every recent US intervention abroad, including some which were proposed but not implemented. Had he become President, I suspect that some of those now treating him as a sort of secular saint would be singing a very different tune. Harsh as this may sound, some of the pro-McCain eulogising seems to be as much about attacking Trump as about McCain’s virtues. Politics, no doubt.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Time to return to Brexit.

    I’m confused again.
    I had assumed from noises off that we are close to a deal with with EU based on Chequers.

    However I see there is now a large faction pushing for “EFTA then CETA”, with the backing of Gove.

    Feels there are now four groups in the Tories.

    Chequers (Mayites)
    No deal ultras (Moggites)
    EFTA then CETA (Goveites)
    Remainers (Soubrettes).

    Surely at least one of those groups should be istas?

    Moggrodytes and Goveistas?
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,710

    Foxy said:

    Robert makes good points about how difficult it will be to negotiate an FTA with the US, and FTAs generally.
    Yet he advocated Leave, didn't he?
    So, can I be reminded about the advantages?

    Blue passports?
    Inundation of toads and plague of locusts been cancelled?
    If the best thing that can be said about Brexit is that there won't be locusts*, it's got some problems I think.

    * A step up however from Theresa May's pitch that Brexit won't mean the end of the world.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Comments like that make me wish I was a vegetarian.

    My granddaughter is a vegan and my family are consuming less meat as a whole
    It’s a good idea. I try to eat less meat and more fish these days.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    I can't get very excited about whether a dead chicken is washed in chlorine or some other method that kills e. coli etc. - as long as they work.

    The much bigger issue is the living conditions of the chickens before they are killed. We should not compromise on the highest standards there.

    Organic chicken is less likely to be contaminated with Salmonella, and the few that are are less likely to be antibiotic resistant, but yes be careful with poultry, and ground meat.

    https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/less-salmonella-organic-chicken_n_842703

    I favour organic myself, and am a relatively light meat eater so can afford to do so. The issue for me with organics is that getting certification is quite bureaucratic and takes 3 years so more difficult for small producers to compete with agribusiness, particularly in developing countries. I therefore favour ordinary bananas and coffee over organic for example.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    edited September 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    McCain was, according to reports, in favour of every recent US intervention abroad, including some which were proposed but not implemented. Had he become President, I suspect that some of those now treating him as a sort of secular saint would be singing a very different tune. Harsh as this may sound, some of the pro-McCain eulogising seems to be as much about attacking Trump as about McCain’s virtues. Politics, no doubt.

    Trump's foreign policy was little different to George W Bush's bar he opposed waterboarding and he was actually more of a neoconservative than Trump is eg Trump has now said the Iraq War was a mistake and is much more pro Russian and willing to deal with North Korea than McCain was.

    McCain's main differences with George W Bush had he won in 2000 would have been over campaign finance reform, not trying to push an amendment to define marriage as heterosexual only and not pushing big tax cuts for the rich and doing more on climate change
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,202

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    I am about to go and swim in some heavily chlorineated water. I’ll probably end up drinking some by accident.

    It’s not the chlorine that’s the problem, but the reason the chlorine is needed is. On the other hand, l take much more care over handling raw chicken than any other meat and always make sure it is fully cooked, as I’m not sure the chicken we get at the moment is much better.

    I no longer buy or eat chicken, partly for this reason and partly because it generally tastes of nothing at all.

    I thought we had a trade surplus with the US. Why then all this agitation for an FTA? Surely the main thing the US, certainly under Trump, will want to do is reverse that in their favour and extend their jurisdiction over us in a way that would give IDS apoplexy were the ECJ to do it. So what’s the big deal?
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    I can't get very excited about whether a dead chicken is washed in chlorine or some other method that kills e. coli etc. - as long as they work.

    The much bigger issue is the living conditions of the chickens before they are killed. We should not compromise on the highest standards there.

    I’m not sure I agree with the last statement. The highest standards in food production can put it out of the reach of most people: Waygu beef from Japan is an extreme example here. We should find a set of standards we can all agree are adequate (in the literal sense) and make sure everyone at least matches them. Those who want to exceed them should be able to use that as marketing and the standards should change with time, but increasing the cost to consumers is not something to be taken lightly.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    Time to return to Brexit.

    I’m confused again.
    I had assumed from noises off that we are close to a deal with with EU based on Chequers.

    However I see there is now a large faction pushing for “EFTA then CETA”, with the backing of Gove.

    Feels there are now four groups in the Tories.

    Chequers (Mayites)
    No deal ultras (Moggites)
    EFTA then CETA (Goveites)
    Remainers (Soubrettes).

    The only "off the shelf" package that works is EFTA plus CU, pending an FTA. Limbo Brexit.
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    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    How I hate airports...

    You haven’t been to Stansted have you? Not recommended.
    Luton is worse, though the sushi takeaway is quite a bright spot.
    Worse than Stansted? That’s quite an achievement. Although, to be fair if one goes straight past the shops and out to the boarding area it’s better. Of course, the gate has to have been ‘called’.
    Stanstead used to be fine but the remodelling that leaves domestic arrivals being immediately funnelled out of the airport down a narrow dingy corridor and the post security 3 mile hike through the never ending shops is a huge blunder. The massive security area seems somehow to be more crowded and slower than the old security as well.
    Very true. Age has reduced my walking ability recently, and last time we came back I had to have several ‘breaks’. I’d have asked for a wheelchair, but I gather they are few and far between!
    My mobility has taken quite a downturn and am seeing an orthopaedic surgeon shortly about my knees. Both my wife and I are less mobile and when we last went to Heathrow to go on our cruise in May we used Virgin assist and they were wonderful. They helped me on with our luggage in Colwyn Bay, met us off the train at Euston and took us in a buggy to the taxis. On our return the taxi drop off point has a phone and they came for us and took us into their Office in Euston

    We were then taken to the train, luggage put in the racks for us, and shown to our reserved seats, before the train was open to boarding by the public. They again helped us off in Colwyn Bay. Fabulous service

    And no I am not Richard Branson
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,235
    Another good video from Robert.

    The problem I see is that whilst in the single market some parts of our industry, specifically cars, have become deeply integrated into the EU market. Cars are comfortably our biggest export (over 11% of all exports) but this is misleading as a significant proportion of that value is actually imports as well. This makes it very difficult for the likes of Range Rover, Aston Martin, etc to meet local content rules. The solution from our perspective is obvious: EU content should be included as UK content so far as any third party is concerned.

    Why would a third party such as the US, Japan or China agree to that? Well, if they have free trade arrangements with the EU already then it is really a continuation of the status quo and there is no obvious prejudice to them although there is an opportunity to ask for something else in return. Of course in most big examples they don't have FTAs but there are a lot of countries that the EU does have trade agreements with that we should be looking to continue existing arrangements with on this basis. The fact that a complete idiot such as Fox is even nominally in charge of this process is a real concern. There has been very little evidence to date of such agreements being made.

    So far as the US is concerned we currently have a trade surplus with them on our current terms. Last year 19% of all of our exports went to the US. The priority in the short term is surely to maintain that and existing arrangements as well as we can.
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    '...the World’s two largest English speaking democracies"

    Point of order- isn't India the world's largest English speaking democracy?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594
    Cyclefree said:

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    I am about to go and swim in some heavily chlorineated water. I’ll probably end up drinking some by accident.

    It’s not the chlorine that’s the problem, but the reason the chlorine is needed is. On the other hand, l take much more care over handling raw chicken than any other meat and always make sure it is fully cooked, as I’m not sure the chicken we get at the moment is much better.

    I no longer buy or eat chicken, partly for this reason and partly because it generally tastes of nothing at all.

    I thought we had a trade surplus with the US. Why then all this agitation for an FTA? Surely the main thing the US, certainly under Trump, will want to do is reverse that in their favour and extend their jurisdiction over us in a way that would give IDS apoplexy were the ECJ to do it. So what’s the big deal?
    Though according to US figures, they have a trade surplus with us:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1035176987176972288?s=19
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Nope, as a pb gammon I insist on John Bull's birthright of good old British salmonella and plenty of it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/21/two-in-three-chickens-sold-in-british-supermarkets-are-infected/

    Yum!
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,986
    Davis and Fox on Marr for and against the Chequers Deal
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Nope, as a pb gammon I insist on John Bull's birthright of good old British salmonella and plenty of it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/21/two-in-three-chickens-sold-in-british-supermarkets-are-infected/

    Yum!
    Not funny

    My wife is in hospital with sepsis..
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anazina said:

    It’s Sunday.

    Anyone fancy roast chlorinated chicken?

    Nope, as a pb gammon I insist on John Bull's birthright of good old British salmonella and plenty of it.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/21/two-in-three-chickens-sold-in-british-supermarkets-are-infected/

    Yum!
    Not funny

    My wife is in hospital with sepsis..
    Very sorry to hear that. Best wishes.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,594

    '...the World’s two largest English speaking democracies"

    Point of order- isn't India the world's largest English speaking democracy?

    Point of pedantry:

    Canada, Australia and New Zealand are also larger, amongst many others. They are however less populous!

    Time to go and enjoy Sunday worship. What a lovely day here in Leics.
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    HYUFD said:

    Davis and Fox on Marr for and against the Chequers Deal

    That way round?!
This discussion has been closed.