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  • What's the point of the Lib Dems?

    What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?
    I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
    Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?
    The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

    What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.
    But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?
    You are not saying I am a half wit are you
    Big G, we have all voted for the current crop of politicians. Possibly some form of mass hallucination. I'd strongly advocate not voting for any of 'em.
    But I am not a half wit by staying loyal to my party even though I attack it's hard Bexit fantasies and the ridiculous Boris
    Big G, you vote for 'em, you own 'em. I voted for Brexit, I'm a racist, xenophobic little Englander.
    Of course you are not and I voted remain but support Brexit as it is the democratic thing to do. I do not, however, support a hard Brexit or Boris
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 25,931
    edited September 2018
    "Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    2h2 hours ago
    Italy, Winpoll poll:
    LEGA-ENF: 35% (+18)
    M5S-EFDD: 26% (-7)
    PD-S&D: 21% (+2)
    FI-EPP: 7% (-7)
    FdI-*: 4%
    LeU-S&D: 2% (-1)
    +E-ALDE: 2% (-1)
    Field work: 6/09/18 – 7/09/18
    Sample size: 1,500"
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 6,794
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrew said:

    Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

    .... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).
    He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

    Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

    SpaceX is a vanity

    Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

    He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman
    $20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

    https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/
    So bollocks then

    (Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)
    Those SpaceX rockets do what they are meant to do, and it's fucking awesome. Similarly PayPal works whenever I use it, and rcs seems to like his tesla. If musk is an underachieving nebbish (and if these aren't really his achievements its odd that we don't hear from their genuine authors) I wish we had more of them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 24,792

    Pulpstar said:

    Lee Rowley most likely holds NE Derbyshire whatever else happens at the next GE I think.
    https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/conservatives-make-history-in-eckington-1-9339732

    So we have *literally* descended to reporting on the results of parish council by-elections.

    The end of days must be close.
    No, the end of days is here already - because a Tory got elected in Eckington!
  • Mortimer said:

    What's the point of the Lib Dems?

    What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?
    I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
    Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?
    The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

    What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.
    But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?
    You are not saying I am a half wit are you
    Big G, we have all voted for the current crop of politicians. Possibly some form of mass hallucination. I'd strongly advocate not voting for any of 'em.
    But I am not a half wit by staying loyal to my party even though I attack it's hard Bexit fantasies and the ridiculous Boris
    Big G, Hard Brexit was in the 2017 manifesto. It isn’t a fantasy; it’s government policy.
    Negotiated by TM is fine by me
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980
    edited September 2018

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,181
    edited September 2018
    One of the smartest things (and potentially incredibly valuable) that Musk has done with Tesla, is the charging stations. He has built a network of them and in prime locations, plus they now own Solar City, so have the solar panel and battery tech to produce power.

    Should electric cars became the norm, he has already got a massive head start in technology and infrastructure. He could in theory leverage that will all the other car companies and effectively become the equivalent of Chevron Gas Stations for electric cars.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,513
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrew said:

    Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

    .... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).
    He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

    Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

    SpaceX is a vanity

    Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

    He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman
    $20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

    https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/
    So bollocks then

    (Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)
    Those SpaceX rockets do what they are meant to do, and it's fucking awesome. Similarly PayPal works whenever I use it, and rcs seems to like his tesla. If musk is an underachieving nebbish (and if these aren't really his achievements its odd that we don't hear from their genuine authors) I wish we had more of them.
    Envy, perhaps ?
    Which considering what a prize pill Musk is, would be odd.
  • AndyJS said:

    "Europe Elects
    @EuropeElects
    2h2 hours ago
    Italy, Winpoll poll:
    LEGA-ENF: 35% (+18)
    M5S-EFDD: 26% (-7)
    PD-S&D: 21% (+2)
    FI-EPP: 7% (-7)
    FdI-*: 4%
    LeU-S&D: 2% (-1)
    +E-ALDE: 2% (-1)
    Field work: 6/09/18 – 7/09/18
    Sample size: 1,500"

    That is a huge jump. What does it do for Italian politics and the EU
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 8,540

    One of the smartest things (and potentially incredibly valuable) that Musk has done with Tesla, is the charging stations. He has built a network of them and in prime locations.

    Should electric cars became the norm, he has already got a massive head start in technology and infrastructure. He could in theory leverage that will all the other car companies and effectively become the equivalent of Chevron Gas Stations for electric cars.

    Or it could be like the Victorian railway boom, with all the prime movers losing their shirts, and others picking up the assets at fire sale prices.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 27,933
    edited September 2018

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to Tim Shipman it was Marina Wheeler and Michael Gove who talked Boris into backing Brexit in the first place.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Lee Rowley most likely holds NE Derbyshire whatever else happens at the next GE I think.
    https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/conservatives-make-history-in-eckington-1-9339732

    So we have *literally* descended to reporting on the results of parish council by-elections.

    The end of days must be close.
    No, the end of days is here already - because a Tory got elected in Eckington!
    And against labour in Inverkeithing, Gordon Brown's back yard
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 45,523
    Cyclefree said:

    Delightful trolling by the government, announcing their proposed divorce law reforms on the same day Boris announces his second divorce.

  • Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to Tim Shipman it was Marina Wheeler and Michael Gove who talking Boris into backing Brexit in the first place.
    They certainly had an impact.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,181
    edited September 2018
    Foxy said:

    One of the smartest things (and potentially incredibly valuable) that Musk has done with Tesla, is the charging stations. He has built a network of them and in prime locations.

    Should electric cars became the norm, he has already got a massive head start in technology and infrastructure. He could in theory leverage that will all the other car companies and effectively become the equivalent of Chevron Gas Stations for electric cars.

    Or it could be like the Victorian railway boom, with all the prime movers losing their shirts, and others picking up the assets at fire sale prices.
    Could be....but in the grand scheme of things the charging station network is small beer in terms of cost, but could be incredibly valuable.

    Musk certainly couldn't have got where he is with Tesla or SpaceX without massive government funding (and a point well made on Freakonomics podcast the other week). However, until a lot of other companies that Obama administration pumped money into Elon Musk's get shit done attitude has produced these amazing cars and rockets, and in doing so pushing the envelope of what is technically possible.

    I think it was around 50 companies that got large green energy companies from Obama's administration went bust.
  • HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    You need to let go of Boris.

    He'd be an absolute disaster.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,513

    One of the smartest things (and potentially incredibly valuable) that Musk has done with Tesla, is the charging stations. He has built a network of them and in prime locations, plus they now own Solar City, so have the solar panel and battery tech to produce power.

    Should electric cars became the norm, he has already got a massive head start in technology and infrastructure. He could in theory leverage that will all the other car companies and effectively become the equivalent of Chevron Gas Stations for electric cars.

    It was smart, but the smartest thing he did was build his own battery factory, which is for now the limiting factor. The major western auto manufacturers are half a decade behind - which might, or might not, be long enough
  • glwglw Posts: 4,975
    Foxy said:

    Or it could be like the Victorian railway boom, with all the prime movers losing their shirts, and others picking up the assets at fire sale prices.

    But in the modern era prime movers get a lot of important IP and can then spend the next few decades licensing that IP or suing their would-be competitors.
  • HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    Well he shouldn't court publicity in the first place. The weekend press will have a field day if the reports in the mail are true
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 8,540

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    You need to let go of Boris.

    He'd be an absolute disaster.
    He has been a dickhead in public office enough times to make his private life dickheadedness superfluous.
  • I think I have the solution to all this problem of entryists and ideologicial extremism..

    We need a new political party with NO MEMBERS.

    It would surely sweep the board at the next election.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    What's the point of the Lib Dems?

    What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?
    I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
    Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?
    The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

    What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.
    But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?
    Good question.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,513

    Foxy said:

    One of the smartest things (and potentially incredibly valuable) that Musk has done with Tesla, is the charging stations. He has built a network of them and in prime locations.

    Should electric cars became the norm, he has already got a massive head start in technology and infrastructure. He could in theory leverage that will all the other car companies and effectively become the equivalent of Chevron Gas Stations for electric cars.

    Or it could be like the Victorian railway boom, with all the prime movers losing their shirts, and others picking up the assets at fire sale prices.
    Could be....but in the grand scheme of things the charging station network is small beer in terms of cost, but could be incredibly valuable.

    Musk certainly couldn't have got where he is with Tesla or SpaceX without massive government funding (and a point well made on Freakonomics podcast the other week)....
    Which other rocket companies don’t subsist on government money ?
    The investment ought to save the US government many times their outlay in future launch costs.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    You need to let go of Boris.

    He'd be an absolute disaster.
    Corbyn would be an even worse one and to be blunt I struggle to see any other Tory leader bar Boris who could win a majority against Corbyn
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    Well he shouldn't court publicity in the first place. The weekend press will have a field day if the reports in the mail are true
    The broadsheets less so
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 6,794
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrew said:

    Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

    .... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).
    He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

    Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

    SpaceX is a vanity

    Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

    He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman
    $20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

    https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/
    So bollocks then

    (Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)
    Those SpaceX rockets do what they are meant to do, and it's fucking awesome. Similarly PayPal works whenever I use it, and rcs seems to like his tesla. If musk is an underachieving nebbish (and if these aren't really his achievements its odd that we don't hear from their genuine authors) I wish we had more of them.
    Envy, perhaps ?
    Which considering what a prize pill Musk is, would be odd.
    I don't follow.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,287
    Maybe the brexit entryists (ie Aaron Banks) should look at the liberal democrats.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 11,374

    Mortimer said:

    What's the point of the Lib Dems?

    What is the point of ANY of the "big three" parties?
    I'd say we only have a big two now, unless you're including the SNP as one of the three?
    Surely the point of any modern political party is to get elected, and then get reelected? Running the country clearly comes a distant second. Maybe we should all join the Lib Dems, make it a real #peoplesparty and keep the professionals out of the loop?
    The point of any political party should be to provide the country with security, stability, safety and promote tolerance and growth.

    What we have are two travesties, an invisible pointless party and (since you mention the SNP) a party that represents less than half of one low-population region and whose stated objective is to break up the UK.
    But these feckers are still in charge. What sort of halfwits vote for them?
    You are not saying I am a half wit are you
    Big G, we have all voted for the current crop of politicians. Possibly some form of mass hallucination. I'd strongly advocate not voting for any of 'em.
    But I am not a half wit by staying loyal to my party even though I attack it's hard Bexit fantasies and the ridiculous Boris
    Big G, Hard Brexit was in the 2017 manifesto. It isn’t a fantasy; it’s government policy.
    Negotiated by TM is fine by me
    Fair enough; I’m more concerned about the policy than the personnel.
  • I'm impressed by what Musk has achieved, but that doesn't stop him from being a prat. I do worry that he's heading for an epic nervous breakdown, which potentially will be damaging for both Tesla and SpaceX, which would be a shame.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,513
    edited September 2018
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrew said:

    Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

    .... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).
    He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

    Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

    SpaceX is a vanity

    Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

    He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman
    $20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

    https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/
    So bollocks then

    (Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)
    Those SpaceX rockets do what they are meant to do, and it's fucking awesome. Similarly PayPal works whenever I use it, and rcs seems to like his tesla. If musk is an underachieving nebbish (and if these aren't really his achievements its odd that we don't hear from their genuine authors) I wish we had more of them.
    Envy, perhaps ?
    Which considering what a prize pill Musk is, would be odd.
    I don't follow.
    Just speculating on the basis of Charles’ opinions on Musk, FWIW.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 23,807
    edited September 2018
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    You need to let go of Boris.

    He'd be an absolute disaster.
    Corbyn would be an even worse one and to be blunt I struggle to see any other Tory leader bar Boris who could win a majority against Corbyn
    But you are possessed with Boris. When the time comes there will be plenty of fresher faces ready to take the party on. If Boris won he would split the party asunder

    CR is right on this.

    Margot James has just said on Sky he is not suitable to be PM
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 1,488

    I think I have the solution to all this problem of entryists and ideologicial extremism..

    We need a new political party with NO MEMBERS.

    It would surely sweep the board at the next election.

    Geert Wilders party in NL only has one official member, him. Even the MP;s for his party are not members. The reason why is that he knew the nutters and racists would join and then the party would be open to criticism.
  • HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980
    Sky News Data Poll out tonight

    'Is Boris Johnson's divorce relevant to whether he should be PM?'

    No 72% Yes 21%

    https://news.sky.com/story/most-people-think-boris-johnsons-divorce-doesnt-matter-sky-data-poll-11492667


    If this is the poll the Daily Mail is talking about one of the most ridiculously spun headlines we have ever seen!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 34,181
    edited September 2018

    I'm impressed by what Musk has achieved, but that doesn't stop him from being a prat. I do worry that he's heading for an epic nervous breakdown, which potentially will be damaging for both Tesla and SpaceX, which would be a shame.

    I don't know if how he was on Joe Rogan podcast is how he is normally, or if all the 120hr a week living in the Tesla factory had taken his toll.

    The most revealing line he came out with was when Rogan was on a mega hero worship and basically said everybody wants to be you, and he said something along the lines of you wouldn't, its terrible. He genuinely sounded troubled....he put it down to what he said was his brain not being able to switch off and constantly thinking of new ideas, but I wonder.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    .... If Boris won he would split the party asunder

    Boris for Leader!!!! Trebles all round :D
  • Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    One of the smartest things (and potentially incredibly valuable) that Musk has done with Tesla, is the charging stations. He has built a network of them and in prime locations.

    Should electric cars became the norm, he has already got a massive head start in technology and infrastructure. He could in theory leverage that will all the other car companies and effectively become the equivalent of Chevron Gas Stations for electric cars.

    Or it could be like the Victorian railway boom, with all the prime movers losing their shirts, and others picking up the assets at fire sale prices.
    Could be....but in the grand scheme of things the charging station network is small beer in terms of cost, but could be incredibly valuable.

    Musk certainly couldn't have got where he is with Tesla or SpaceX without massive government funding (and a point well made on Freakonomics podcast the other week)....
    Which other rocket companies don’t subsist on government money ?
    The investment ought to save the US government many times their outlay in future launch costs.
    Blue Origin has had very little government money, especially compared to the billions that Bezos is pumping in. That might change if they win one of the new Air Force contracts.
  • HYUFD said:

    Sky News Data Poll out tonight

    'Is Boris Johnson's divorce relevant to whether he should be PM?'

    No 72% Yes 21%

    https://news.sky.com/story/most-people-think-boris-johnsons-divorce-doesnt-matter-sky-data-poll-11492667


    If this is the poll the Daily Mail is talking about one of the most ridiculously spun headlines we have ever seen!

    Let him go - he ain't going to be PM
  • A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 11,601

    I think I have the solution to all this problem of entryists and ideologicial extremism..

    We need a new political party with NO MEMBERS.

    It would surely sweep the board at the next election.

    The Tories are well on their way.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html

    Unless a Tory voteshare under Boris v Corbyn Labour poll utterly irrelevant as all those 30% could be lifelong Labour or LD voters
  • Jonathan said:

    I think I have the solution to all this problem of entryists and ideologicial extremism..

    We need a new political party with NO MEMBERS.

    It would surely sweep the board at the next election.

    The Tories are well on their way.
    Yep, we're ahead of the game, We always were good at adapting to new realities.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    You need to let go of Boris.

    He'd be an absolute disaster.
    Corbyn would be an even worse one and to be blunt I struggle to see any other Tory leader bar Boris who could win a majority against Corbyn
    But you are possessed with Boris. When the time comes there will be plenty of fresher faces ready to take the party on. If Boris won he would split the party asunder

    CR is right on this.

    Margot James has just said on Sky he is not suitable to be PM
    Margot James is almost as diehard a Remainer as Anna Soubry
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 11,513

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    One of the smartest things (and potentially incredibly valuable) that Musk has done with Tesla, is the charging stations. He has built a network of them and in prime locations.

    Should electric cars became the norm, he has already got a massive head start in technology and infrastructure. He could in theory leverage that will all the other car companies and effectively become the equivalent of Chevron Gas Stations for electric cars.

    Or it could be like the Victorian railway boom, with all the prime movers losing their shirts, and others picking up the assets at fire sale prices.
    Could be....but in the grand scheme of things the charging station network is small beer in terms of cost, but could be incredibly valuable.

    Musk certainly couldn't have got where he is with Tesla or SpaceX without massive government funding (and a point well made on Freakonomics podcast the other week)....
    Which other rocket companies don’t subsist on government money ?
    The investment ought to save the US government many times their outlay in future launch costs.
    Blue Origin has had very little government money, especially compared to the billions that Bezos is pumping in. That might change if they win one of the new Air Force contracts.
    Fair point, but they’re not launching anyone’s stuff yet.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 8,284
    Jonathan said:

    I think I have the solution to all this problem of entryists and ideologicial extremism..

    We need a new political party with NO MEMBERS.

    It would surely sweep the board at the next election.

    The Tories are well on their way.
    That's not fair. The conservatives have many members and funders. It's just that some of them are..well, dead.

    Incidentally, given the changes in Labour and Conservative memberships since Brexit...do we have a generational war going on here? Labour is idealistic, naive, jealous of the wealthy and (via antisemitism) little knowledge of history. Conservatives are grumpy, reactionary, keen to hoard to their ain folk and careless of others. That's not traditional politics, it's young versus old.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
  • On a more serious note: look at that Telegraph front page. Ignore the stuff about Labour, and look on the right hand of the page. There's a spiffing Matt cartoon, but also an absolutely extraordinary story about the Russian hitmen.
  • On Topic:

    I don't know whether my opinion on this is typical or not among fellow Lib Dem members but, for what it's worth, I 100% approve of what I've heard of Cable's plans on this matter (and I'm certainly not a Cable cheerleader by any stretch of the imagination - but this time I think he's got it absolutely right).

  • HYUFD said:

    A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html

    Unless a Tory voteshare under Boris v Corbyn Labour poll utterly irrelevant as all those 30% could be lifelong Labour or LD voters
    In a different poll today YouGov found more Tory voters thought Boris Johnson was not up to the job of PM than thought he was up to the job. 46% v 39%.

    That tells you a lot.

    But you ignore things like because they don’t fit your narrative.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure about that. He was Foreign Sec - who is she?
  • So, the choices for the next Prime Minister after May are:
    Johnson
    Rees Mogg
    Corbyn
    Some fecker who is loosely affiliated to the Lib Dems.

    What could go wrong?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 8,540

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    It's possible but not easy to be friends with an ex, but it does take a few years cooling off first.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure about that. He was Foreign Sec - who is she?
    If she was Russian I am sure the Mail would have had about ten pages worth of the story
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 6,794

    A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html

    have we not just had a thread about the meaninglessness of answers to more or less likely questions? That looks like a prime example.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980
    edited September 2018

    HYUFD said:

    A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html

    Unless a Tory voteshare under Boris v Corbyn Labour poll utterly irrelevant as all those 30% could be lifelong Labour or LD voters
    In a different poll today YouGov found more Tory voters thought Boris Johnson was not up to the job of PM than thought he was up to the job. 46% v 39%.

    That tells you a lot.

    But you ignore things like because they don’t fit your narrative.
    No, I look at the actual head to head polling which is the only polling that really matters as to how the Tories would fare under different leaders.

    As YouGov showed only Boris does better than May v Labour of potential Tory leadership contenders so as long as that continues he remains the likeliest alternative to her, however at the same time she could stay Tory leader through to the next general election as enough Tory MPs do not want to risk Boris or Mogg succeeding her as leader
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Hmm, I wouldn't be so sure about that. He was Foreign Sec - who is she?
    If she was Russian I am sure the Mail would have had about ten pages worth of the story
    No doubt. But who is she? I've no idea, but I don't think the Foreign Secretary's bonking breaks (when, according to the Sun, his minders didn't know where he was) are entirely his private affair.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html

    have we not just had a thread about the meaninglessness of answers to more or less likely questions? That looks like a prime example.
    Yup.
  • So, the choices for the next Prime Minister after May are:
    Johnson
    Rees Mogg
    Corbyn
    Some fecker who is loosely affiliated to the Lib Dems.

    What could go wrong?

    And that is why TM will stay in post for quite a while
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html

    Unless a Tory voteshare under Boris v Corbyn Labour poll utterly irrelevant as all those 30% could be lifelong Labour or LD voters
    In a different poll today YouGov found more Tory voters thought Boris Johnson was not up to the job of PM than thought he was up to the job. 46% v 39%.

    That tells you a lot.

    But you ignore things like because they don’t fit your narrative.
    No, I look at the actual head to head polling which is the only polling that really matters as to how the Tories would fare under different leaders.

    As YouGov showed only Boris does better than May v Labour so as long as that continues he remains the likeliest alternative to her, however at the same time she could stay Tory leader through to the next general election as enough Tory MPs do not want to risk Boris or Mogg succeeding her as leader
    You are possessed
  • .... If Boris won he would split the party asunder

    Boris for Leader!!!! Trebles all round :D
    BJWNBPM
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    +1
  • Time to wish everyone a pleasant night's rest

    Good night folks
  • No doubt. But who is she? I've no idea, but I don't think the Foreign Secretary's bonking breaks (when, according to the Sun, his minders didn't know where he was) are entirely his private affair.

    The Mail and the Sun give a lot of clues...
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 6,794

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    Yes. No one without the resilience to cope with both at once should be within a mile of the levers of power in the first place. Getting divorced is a complete pita but almost all of us manage to keep buggering on regardless.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 74,735
    edited September 2018
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    That’s for an amicable, few assets, no children involved divorce.

    I expect theirs will take longer.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
    Look, I obviously know nothing about you, but if you're saying the average bloke copes with a divorce involving children in 20 weeks purely because that is how long the legal aspect takes, then we have nothing to talk about.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
    Look, I obviously know nothing about you, but if you're saying the average bloke copes with a divorce involving children in 20 weeks purely because that is how long the legal aspect takes, then we have nothing to talk about.
    I was divorced nearly four years ago and it is still a sore point.
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    Yes. No one without the resilience to cope with both at once should be within a mile of the levers of power in the first place. Getting divorced is a complete pita but almost all of us manage to keep buggering on regardless.
    But should the country be happy with Boris buggering on regardless?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 25,931
    Far-right in Italy on 35% in the polls. How did we get here?
  • No doubt. But who is she? I've no idea, but I don't think the Foreign Secretary's bonking breaks (when, according to the Sun, his minders didn't know where he was) are entirely his private affair.

    The Mail and the Sun give a lot of clues...
    Do they? The Sun says she's a 'Tory aide', but I'm not in the gossip loop!:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/7205673/boris-johnson-blonde-tory-aide-valentines-day/
  • Interesting story from February - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5404687/No-10-aide-porn-row-fierce-battle-spin-doctor.html

    A fierce battle emerged last night between a No 10 aide caught in a porn row [Gavin Barwell] and a Tory spin doctor with close links to Boris Johnson and Michael Gove.

    Carrie Symonds is fighting moves to sack her as the party’s communications chief over claims that she spends too much time promoting the Brexit-backing Ministers and not enough time promoting Theresa May.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in k/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
    Look, I obviously know nothing about you, but if you're saying the average bloke copes with a divorce involving children in 20 weeks purely because that is how long the legal aspect takes, then we have nothing to talk about.
    Boris is not the average bloke, he is the former Mayor of London and Foreign Secretary and I really don't see what that has got to do with Brexit.

    Ronald Reagan managed to be an outstanding President despite the fact he was divorced
  • Ishmael_Z said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    Yes. No one without the resilience to cope with both at once should be within a mile of the levers of power in the first place. Getting divorced is a complete pita but almost all of us manage to keep buggering on regardless.
    But should the country be happy with Boris buggering on regardless?
    Experience tells me the best way to get over someone is to get under someone.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.


    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
    Look, I obviously know nothing about you, but if you're saying the average bloke copes with a divorce involving children in 20 weeks purely because that is how long the legal aspect takes, then we have nothing to talk about.
    I was divorced nearly four years ago and it is still a sore point.
    It gets easier once they go to university, believe me. Going out for a beer when yer lad is buying is one of the pleasures I was never really sure I'd experience once you legal boys got involved!
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in k/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
    Look, I obviously know nothing about you, but if you're saying the average bloke copes with a divorce involving children in 20 weeks purely because that is how long the legal aspect takes, then we have nothing to talk about.
    Boris is not the average bloke, he is the former Mayor of London and Foreign Secretary and I really don't see what that has got to do with Brexit.

    Ronald Reagan managed to be an outstanding President despite the fact he was divorced
    As I said. Bot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in k/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
    Look, I obviously know nothing about you, but if you're saying the average bloke copes with a divorce involving children in 20 weeks purely because that is how long the legal aspect takes, then we have nothing to talk about.
    Boris is not the average bloke, he is the former Mayor of London and Foreign Secretary and I really don't see what that has got to do with Brexit.

    Ronald Reagan managed to be an outstanding President despite the fact he was divorced
    As I said. Bot.
    Think what you want of me, I will continue to say what I think regardless
  • Isn't it true that Marina caused Boris's first divorce? She was already pregnant by him at the time IIRC.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 8,284

    Isn't it true that Marina caused Boris's first divorce? She was already pregnant by him at the time IIRC.

    I'm fairly sure Boris jointly caused the pregnancy... :smile:
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 12,281
    Having a Labour MP become LibDem leader would have amusement value. Perhaps Tony would like to have a go?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 25,931
    edited September 2018
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 53,980
    edited September 2018

    Having a Labour MP become LibDem leader would have amusement value. Perhaps Tony would like to have a go?

    Chuka more likely now but he has now replaced David Miliband as Blair's heir anyway
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 8,284

    HYUFD said:



    The average time for a divorce in the UK this year is 16-20 weeks, so it will be over before Brexit and May almost certainly stays until next March at least to negotiate the Withdrawal Agreement and any transition period. It is how long that transition period lasts that is key

    https://www.divorce-online.co.uk/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/

    That’s for an amicable, few assets, no children involved divorce.

    I expect theirs will take longer.
    Divorce is one of those things that everybody underestimates the cost and duration of. Sadly, it is lot like Brexit in that respect.

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 2,619
    AndyJS said:

    Far-right in Italy on 35% in the polls. How did we get here?

    It is the EU’s fault.

    The Dublin Convention is clearly the creation of a truly insane organisation.

    Was it really not possible to predict that the Dublin Convention would lead to Greece, Italy and Spain bearing much of the burden?

    A burden that they think (quite rightly) should be shared by all member states.

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 8,284
    AndyJS said:
    Interesting, thank you. One of the good points was "Never forget that meritocracy is the way smart people want society organised so members of their tribe — other smart people — can escape whatever world they’ve been born into.". I winced at this.
  • viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:
    Interesting, thank you. One of the good points was "Never forget that meritocracy is the way smart people want society organised so members of their tribe — other smart people — can escape whatever world they’ve been born into.". I winced at this.
    The author of that piece has previously described meritocracy as affirmative action for smart people...
  • You know this "Boris' leadership chances won't be affected' line of argument?



  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 8,284

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:
    Interesting, thank you. One of the good points was "Never forget that meritocracy is the way smart people want society organised so members of their tribe — other smart people — can escape whatever world they’ve been born into.". I winced at this.
    The author of that piece has previously described meritocracy as affirmative action for smart people...
    Horribly true.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 1,256
    In general terms it is perfectly possible for a politician to have a weakness for affairs and yet be a high minded public servant in his or her political life.

    Unfortunately for Boris, every aspect of his life reliably informs every other: Boris the blatantly lying journalist, Boris the ham Machiavellian politician and Boris the bonker behave in exactly the same way and with exactly the same set of motivations. Boris the bonker reflects with crystal clarity upon Boris the politician. Or, as May puts it, Boris is Boris.

    On the other hand, a lot of this is already priced in.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 25,216

    On a more serious note: look at that Telegraph front page. Ignore the stuff about Labour, and look on the right hand of the page. There's a spiffing Matt cartoon, but also an absolutely extraordinary story about the Russian hitmen.

    @hunchman was pretty clear that the Russians werem't involved in the Skirpal murders, so I think we should take the government line with a pinch of salt.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Except it isn't. Marina is a Eurosceptic who backed Boris over Brexit and has her own (very strong) criticisms of the EU and the judicial activism of the ECJ.

    It's just Boris is a selfish narcissistic dickhead who's betrayed her one time too many.
    According to their joint statement it said they will remain friends and support their children, hardly the woman scorned of yesterday.

    As far as I am concerned their private family life, especially with their children involved and having to deal with their parents divorcing as well as all the media coverage too, is their business and provided Boris has not done anything illegal not really something the media should be spending much time commenting on. The French have a much better attitude to this and respect politicians privacy and private lives.
    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.
    Regardless it is their private affair
    Regardless, it ain't. If he wants to be PM at a time of such national importance as Brexit, should he really have to be dealing with such life changing and potentially debilitating circumstances as divorce?
    The average time for a divorce in k/blog/how-long-does-a-divorce-take/
    You're some sort of bot, aren't you?
    No reporting only to myself here regardless of who disagrees with me
    Look, I obviously know nothing about you, but if you're saying the average bloke copes with a divorce involving children in 20 weeks purely because that is how long the legal aspect takes, then we have nothing to talk about.
    Ronald Reagan managed to be an outstanding President despite the fact he was divorced
    He'd been married to Nancy for nearly 30 years when he became President. Its not "divorce" that's the issue - its "trust". I also think "domestic stability" in a PM is probably a good thing for their sakes and ours.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 12,281



    When I got divorced many years ago, we were going to remain friends and do what was best for the children. Within a week, I'd have paid a Russian nerve agent specialist whatever he wanted to slot her. There is a reason why marriages fail, and it ain't because the unhappily wedded couple want to be friends.

    There's a fair amount of luck in it, I think, and it depends a lot on what the relationship was like before. I know one couple where she decided she no longer fancied the chap enough and they sought out others, but they remain close friends and business partners. But it's the exception, sadly.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 51,561
    Milly (Our rabbit as my profile picture), her Dad was named "Boris".
  • No details...but:

    A poll for the Mail suggested Mr Johnson’s divorce could make it harder for the Conservatives to win the next election;

    It found that 30 per cent of all voters would be less likely to vote Tory if he was leader – against 21 per cent who said more likely;


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6144655/Long-suffering-wife-announces-divorce-amid-claims-Boris-Johnson-caught-cheating.html
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 51,561
    edited September 2018
    All this stuff about Boris' personal life is highly amusing but it doesn't disqualify him from becoming PM in any way.
    Then again I haven't seen anything that particularly qualifies him either.
This discussion has been closed.