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  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,629
    edited September 2018

    viewcode said:

    AndyJS said:
    Interesting, thank you. One of the good points was "Never forget that meritocracy is the way smart people want society organised so members of their tribe — other smart people — can escape whatever world they’ve been born into.". I winced at this.
    The author of that piece has previously described meritocracy as affirmative action for smart people...
    People forget that Young's creation of the word Meritocracy was to criticise the rise of a knowledge economy because of how it systemised the poor career options for the less knowledgeable. It is a very interesting book, though written 60 years ago and predicts much of the social and political ills of our time, even Brexitism.

    https://www.economist.com/britain/2018/02/10/the-merits-of-revisiting-michael-young
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,005
    They won't 71% say his divorce is not relevant to whether he should be PM.
    https://news.sky.com/story/most-people-think-boris-johnsons-divorce-doesnt-matter-sky-data-poll-11492667

    The Mail poll did not mention his divorce and was not a head to head poll either, the only head to head polling of the Tories under Boris v Corbyn shows clearly he does better than any alternative leader to May against Labour
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,189
    edited September 2018
    Pulpstar said:

    All this stuff about Boris' personal life is highly amusing but it doesn't disqualify him from becoming PM in any way.
    Then again I haven't seen anything that particularly qualifies him either.


    Any other polititical figure would be seriously damaged, revelation after revelation. In Johnson's case this latest episode, demonstrating both his irresistability and his swordsmanship will doubtless enhance the legend.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,772

    Pulpstar said:

    All this stuff about Boris' personal life is highly amusing but it doesn't disqualify him from becoming PM in any way.
    Then again I haven't seen anything that particularly qualifies him either.


    Any other polititical figure would be seriously damaged, revelation after revelation. In Johnson's case this latest episode, demonstrating both his irresistability and his swordsmanship will doubtless enhance the legend.
    "swordsmanship"? The word you are looking for is "adultery".
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    AndyJS said:

    Far-right in Italy on 35% in the polls. How did we get here?

    It is the EU’s fault.

    The Dublin Convention is clearly the creation of a truly insane organisation.

    Was it really not possible to predict that the Dublin Convention would lead to Greece, Italy and Spain bearing much of the burden?

    A burden that they think (quite rightly) should be shared by all member states.

    I read a SOAS study last year (but have lost the reference / link) which suggested that economic migration from Aftrica could increase rapidly by an order of magnitude as the continent gets richer and more people could afford to pay people smugglers. Imagine the strain on European Mediterranean countries if that happens.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    So many unbelievable things are happening these days, like political parties actually hoping that they don't get more members in case they upset the applecart.
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    AndyJS said:
    Helen Dale writes both some interesting stuff and some odd stuff. Has some quite remarkable controversy in her past too...
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    I'm impressed by what Musk has achieved, but that doesn't stop him from being a prat. I do worry that he's heading for an epic nervous breakdown, which potentially will be damaging for both Tesla and SpaceX, which would be a shame.

    I don't know if how he was on Joe Rogan podcast is how he is normally, or if all the 120hr a week living in the Tesla factory had taken his toll.

    The most revealing line he came out with was when Rogan was on a mega hero worship and basically said everybody wants to be you, and he said something along the lines of you wouldn't, its terrible. He genuinely sounded troubled....he put it down to what he said was his brain not being able to switch off and constantly thinking of new ideas, but I wonder.
    Musk is just like one of those teenagers who becomes a superstar then loses their mind. He's mired in a culture that treats him as a God, and it's completely broken his brain.
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    rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    I think I have the solution to all this problem of entryists and ideologicial extremism..

    We need a new political party with NO MEMBERS.

    It would surely sweep the board at the next election.

    We could go for the American system where there are no members of political parties, but electors choose to register which party they support and vote in its primaries.
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    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrew said:

    Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

    .... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).
    He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

    Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

    SpaceX is a vanity

    Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

    He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman
    $20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

    https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/
    So bollocks then

    (Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)
    Those SpaceX rockets do what they are meant to do, and it's fucking awesome. Similarly PayPal works whenever I use it, and rcs seems to like his tesla. If musk is an underachieving nebbish (and if these aren't really his achievements its odd that we don't hear from their genuine authors) I wish we had more of them.
    Envy, perhaps ?
    Which considering what a prize pill Musk is, would be odd.
    I don't follow.
    Just speculating on the basis of Charles’ opinions on Musk, FWIW.

    Charles is right wing, so he finds it hard to accept that somebody without much merit can become extremely wealthy.
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    HYUFD said:

    They won't 71% say his divorce is not relevant to whether he should be PM.
    https://news.sky.com/story/most-people-think-boris-johnsons-divorce-doesnt-matter-sky-data-poll-11492667

    The Mail poll did not mention his divorce and was not a head to head poll either, the only head to head polling of the Tories under Boris v Corbyn shows clearly he does better than any alternative leader to May against Labour
    Strangely, Boris is now at 4.8 on BF. WhenI looked before heading to the pub he was around 5.4

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    The best thing I've seen written yet on the Lib Dem membership revamp:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1038005849313222659

    As for TSE's claim that Layla Moran would be a brilliant leader - presumably for more than box-ticking but because he thinks she exhibits signs of having genuine talent for the role - what percentage of the electorate would know who she is? Not saying that as a criticism of her at all, simply an indication of the obscurity into which the Lib Dems are falling.

    For comparison, Stella Creasy is well outside the top 10 betting favourites for Labour leader, has never, if I recall correctly, held a shadow ministerial brief (or even a junior one), and look how much airtime and favourable press coverage she has got. Payday loans, misogyny as a hate crime, abortion law in Northern Ireland... for a Labour backbencher, she seems to have had both more substantive success changing the terms of debate on various issues, and even affecting policy, than Vince Cable has done as leader of the Lib Dems.

    Depending on how you measure such things, it wouldn't surprise me if - depending on how these things are measured - Stella Creasy could be objectively rated as having had better media coverage than VInce Cable. If she had achieved those things as a Lib Dem backbencher she could well have totally eclipsed him. On the contrary, Layla Moran has hardly emerged from Cable's shadow - the Lib Dems aren't getting much coverage and it is almost exclusively focused on him as one of their last heavyweights still standing.

    I don't know whether it's fairer to say the Lib Dems, still reeling from their electoral crunch, are facing up to a talent crunch or a media crunch - perhaps both - but if they do succeed in this new venture of launching a bold centrist force, then depending on how inclusive they are and how willing other people are to jump, it may not on a personal level resemble the current bunch of Lib Dem politicians at all.

    They may imagine themselves as being at the core of a new movement of their crafting, but end up diluted and peripheral within it.
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    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited September 2018
    stodge said:

    Charles said:


    I wouldn’t take @Casino_Royale on on Crossrail

    I don't care. I imagine CR will blame everyone except the Government which is his privilege but to us in London it looks and sounds like a disaster.

    Everyone has been happy to say how wonderful the Elizabeth Line is going to be and it may well be wonderful but the fact is it's late and overbudget and someone needs to be held to account and that includes Chris Grayling.

    It's actually George Osborne's fault. He cut the Crossrail budget from £15.9 billion to £14.9 billion in 2010.

    So even if Crossrail 'overspends' against the revised budget by £1bn it will still be on budget against the original budget.

    Having used the new Crossrail trains regularly however I have to say I am not a big fan - so I wouldn't stress too much about the delay:

    Possibly the most uncomfortable train seats I have ever sat on - they literally have zero cushioning
    Very poor soundproofing - the floors are very tinny so anyone with heavy shoes walking along the train makes an absolute racket
    Very loud beeping doors on opening and closing - you can hear them several platforms away st Liverpool St in an endless cacophony
    Despite Crossrail serving Heathrow there is literally no where to put or store luggage - not even overhead racks
    And amazingly for 2018 no on board WIFI which is now standard on Greater Anglia, South Western railway, c2c, Thameslink etc?

    I don't know where the money has gone but it certainly hasn't gone on the customer experience!
  • Options

    The best thing I've seen written yet on the Lib Dem membership revamp:

    https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1038005849313222659

    As for TSE's claim that Layla Moran would be a brilliant leader - presumably for more than box-ticking but because he thinks she exhibits signs of having genuine talent for the role - what percentage of the electorate would know who she is? Not saying that as a criticism of her at all, simply an indication of the obscurity into which the Lib Dems are falling.

    For comparison, Stella Creasy is well outside the top 10 betting favourites for Labour leader, has never, if I recall correctly, held a shadow ministerial brief (or even a junior one), and look how much airtime and favourable press coverage she has got. Payday loans, misogyny as a hate crime, abortion law in Northern Ireland... for a Labour backbencher, she seems to have had both more substantive success changing the terms of debate on various issues, and even affecting policy, than Vince Cable has done as leader of the Lib Dems.

    Depending on how you measure such things, it wouldn't surprise me if - depending on how these things are measured - Stella Creasy could be objectively rated as having had better media coverage than VInce Cable. If she had achieved those things as a Lib Dem backbencher she could well have totally eclipsed him. On the contrary, Layla Moran has hardly emerged from Cable's shadow - the Lib Dems aren't getting much coverage and it is almost exclusively focused on him as one of their last heavyweights still standing.

    I don't know whether it's fairer to say the Lib Dems, still reeling from their electoral crunch, are facing up to a talent crunch or a media crunch - perhaps both - but if they do succeed in this new venture of launching a bold centrist force, then depending on how inclusive they are and how willing other people are to jump, it may not on a personal level resemble the current bunch of Lib Dem politicians at all.

    They may imagine themselves as being at the core of a new movement of their crafting, but end up diluted and peripheral within it.

    So, it appears Swinson has joined Vince in going mad.

    We shall see. But as I have repeatedly said, opening up LibDem leader voting to anyone who can actually manage to put two digits together and log on to the whizzy new LibDem Supporters Club online site, will end in despair.

    WTF.

    Don't do it Vince.

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    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrew said:

    Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

    .... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).
    He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

    Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

    SpaceX is a vanity

    Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

    He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman
    $20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

    https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/
    So bollocks then

    (Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)
    Those SpaceX rockets do what they are meant to do, and it's fucking awesome. Similarly PayPal works whenever I use it, and rcs seems to like his tesla. If musk is an underachieving nebbish (and if these aren't really his achievements its odd that we don't hear from their genuine authors) I wish we had more of them.
    Attributing how well PayPal works today to Musk is overegging things considerably - the timeline is worth wrapping one's head around, since the claim is made often enough:

    In March 1999, Musk co-founded X.com, an online financial services and e-mail payment company, with US$10 million from the sale of Zip2.[42][46][48] One year later, the company merged with Confinity,[47][50] which had a money-transfer service called PayPal. The merged company focused on the PayPal service and was renamed PayPal in 2001. PayPal's early growth was driven mainly by a viral marketing campaign where new customers were recruited when they received money through the service.[51] Musk was ousted in October 2000 from his role as CEO (although he remained on the board) due to disagreements with other company leadership, notably over his desire to move PayPal's Unix-based infrastructure to Microsoft Windows.[52] In October 2002, PayPal was acquired by eBay for US$1.5 billion in stock, of which Musk received US$165 million.[53] Before its sale, Musk, who was the company's largest shareholder, owned 11.7% of PayPal's shares.[54]

    Not going to comment re SpaceX, Tesla or the broader point on Musk's talents, except to say that the corporate governance issues reek.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Andrew said:

    Listened to the Joe Rogan podcast with Elon Musk....my opinion has gone right down on Musk, he came across terribly. If you only heard that interview, you wouldn't give him $5 let alone the $5bn the US government have given him.

    .... and yet, he's worth 20 billion, founded Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX and several other interesting companies. Suggests he has some idea what he's doing (even if he is a bit weird).
    He was a “co-founder” of PayPal (ie a mid level exec there at the beginning)

    Tesla was built on subsidies from the Obama government

    SpaceX is a vanity

    Do you have evidence for him being worth $20bn?

    He’s a hypster and a promoter not a businessman
    $20bn figure is from Forbes rich list

    https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/list/2/
    So bollocks then

    (Probably based on a high price for Tesla a stupid number for SpaceX and some puff from Musk)
    Those SpaceX rockets do what they are meant to do, and it's fucking awesome. Similarly PayPal works whenever I use it, and rcs seems to like his tesla. If musk is an underachieving nebbish (and if these aren't really his achievements its odd that we don't hear from their genuine authors) I wish we had more of them.
    Attributing how well PayPal works today to Musk is overegging things considerably - the timeline is worth wrapping one's head around, since the claim is made often enough:

    In March 1999, Musk co-founded X.com, an online financial services and e-mail payment company, with US$10 million from the sale of Zip2.[42][46][48] One year later, the company merged with Confinity,[47][50] which had a money-transfer service called PayPal. The merged company focused on the PayPal service and was renamed PayPal in 2001. PayPal's early growth was driven mainly by a viral marketing campaign where new customers were recruited when they received money through the service.[51] Musk was ousted in October 2000 from his role as CEO (although he remained on the board) due to disagreements with other company leadership, notably over his desire to move PayPal's Unix-based infrastructure to Microsoft Windows.[52] In October 2002, PayPal was acquired by eBay for US$1.5 billion in stock, of which Musk received US$165 million.[53] Before its sale, Musk, who was the company's largest shareholder, owned 11.7% of PayPal's shares.[54]

    Not going to comment re SpaceX, Tesla or the broader point on Musk's talents, except to say that the corporate governance issues reek.
    He wanted to move from Unix to Windows? Madness.
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    brendan16 said:

    stodge said:

    Charles said:


    I wouldn’t take @Casino_Royale on on Crossrail

    I don't care. I imagine CR will blame everyone except the Government which is his privilege but to us in London it looks and sounds like a disaster.

    Everyone has been happy to say how wonderful the Elizabeth Line is going to be and it may well be wonderful but the fact is it's late and overbudget and someone needs to be held to account and that includes Chris Grayling.

    It's actually George Osborne's fault. He cut the Crossrail budget from £15.9 billion to £14.9 billion in 2010.

    So even if Crossrail 'overspends' against the revised budget by £1bn it will still be on budget against the original budget.

    Having used the new Crossrail trains regularly however I have to say I am not a big fan - so I wouldn't stress too much about the delay:

    Possibly the most uncomfortable train seats I have ever sat on - they literally have zero cushioning
    Very poor soundproofing - the floors are very tinny so anyone with heavy shoes walking along the train makes an absolute racket
    Very loud beeping doors on opening and closing - you can hear them several platforms away st Liverpool St in an endless cacophony
    Despite Crossrail serving Heathrow there is literally no where to put or store luggage - not even overhead racks
    And amazingly for 2018 no on board WIFI which is now standard on Greater Anglia, South Western railway, c2c, Thameslink etc?

    I don't know where the money has gone but it certainly hasn't gone on the customer experience!
    And those longitudinal (sideways) seating like on the Tube, for long (35 mile) journeys from Reading! Makes taking pics of the jouney very difficult :)
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    Speaking of trains, over the last week, I have captured - on film! - the following:

    Fishguard Harbour to Clarbeston Road
    Carmarthen avoider
    Swansea avoider
    Carstairs south junction to Haymarket
    Edinburgh to Tweedbank
    Carlisle to Glasgow Central via Dumfries
    Glasgow Central Low Level to Partick
    Hyndland to Dalmuir via Yoker
    Carlisle to Barrow via Whitehaven
    Paisley Gilmour Street to Wemyss Bay

    (old habits die hard :) )
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    peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,875
    edited September 2018
    Off Topic

    Was September 2018 when Labour lost, as in threw away the next General Election?
    It's certainly beginning to look that way and those evens odds offered by a diminishing number of bookies (SkyBet, Boylesport and Betway) on the Tories winning the most number of seats is starting to look like the value bet, although you might have to wait two and a half years for your winnings.

    DYOR
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    Seems like an over reaction:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/booze-warning-brits-dubai-after-13205897.amp?__twitter_impression=true

    Surely the lesson is:

    I) Don’t try to enter Dubai on an expired visa.
    2) If you do, don’t get into a heated argument with immigration officers
    3) Don’t try to film them because that will get you arrested and
    4) If you’re planning on doing 1-3 - don’t have a glass of wine on your flight.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,603
    Pro_Rata said:

    In general terms it is perfectly possible for a politician to have a weakness for affairs and yet be a high minded public servant in his or her political life.

    Unfortunately for Boris, every aspect of his life reliably informs every other: Boris the blatantly lying journalist, Boris the ham Machiavellian politician and Boris the bonker behave in exactly the same way and with exactly the same set of motivations. Boris the bonker reflects with crystal clarity upon Boris the politician. Or, as May puts it, Boris is Boris.

    On the other hand, a lot of this is already priced in.

    Agreed.
    Divorce happens for any manner of reasons, but it seems fairly clear that he is as selfish, unreliable, and utterly self-indulgent in his private life as in his public one.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,897

    Seems like an over reaction:

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/booze-warning-brits-dubai-after-13205897.amp?__twitter_impression=true

    Surely the lesson is:

    I) Don’t try to enter Dubai on an expired visa.
    2) If you do, don’t get into a heated argument with immigration officers
    3) Don’t try to film them because that will get you arrested and
    4) If you’re planning on doing 1-3 - don’t have a glass of wine on your flight.

    5) Don’t be going there to run an unlicensed cosmetic surgery clinic in your hotel suite, and advertise it all over social media with hashtags used by government departments #VisitDubai
This discussion has been closed.