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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: The Changing Nature of Work

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited September 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » PB Video Analysis: The Changing Nature of Work

In the old days, careers would be long, mortgages cheap and job titles easy to understand. But the nature of working is changing. Our grandparents would struggle to understand what we do… YouTuber, anyone?

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Comments

  • First, like CETA.
  • The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    edited September 2018
    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,905

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,905

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    I completely agree.

    Share options are a one way bet, and therefore encourage firms to take risks. Stock up 20%! Whoppeee... Stock down 20%, well, it's the shareholders that lose.

    Much better to have a system where management can borrow to buy stock, so they will genuinely think like owners.

    So, after I get Demographics Two out, and my "The Trouble With EBITDA" (that I've wanted to do for ever), I might well do a piece on the dangers of share options.

    I'd go as far as to say that share options were a contributing factor the financial crisis. They basically encouraged bank managements to act irresponsibly.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,905
    As a complete aside, my piece on the US-China Trade deficit is within a whisker of 100,000 views, which is amazing. If you haven't watched it, you probably should :)
  • rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    Hear hear. Completely agree
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    It’s a good piece.

    Pascal, Mark Twain and Lincoln have all been credited with saying something along the lines of “Sorry about the long letter, I didn’t have enough time to make it shorter”, so you’re in good company.

    Looking forward to Demographics II and The Trouble With EBITDA.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    rcs1000 said:

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    I completely agree.

    Share options are a one way bet, and therefore encourage firms to take risks. Stock up 20%! Whoppeee... Stock down 20%, well, it's the shareholders that lose.

    Much better to have a system where management can borrow to buy stock, so they will genuinely think like owners.

    So, after I get Demographics Two out, and my "The Trouble With EBITDA" (that I've wanted to do for ever), I might well do a piece on the dangers of share options.

    I'd go as far as to say that share options were a contributing factor the financial crisis. They basically encouraged bank managements to act irresponsibly.
    Surely the best way to treat executive share options is as Apple did with Steve Jobs when he came back - pay him $1 a year salary so his shares become a two way bet.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    This revolution obviously passed the Civil Service by...

    Very much agree with journalistic output. The football writer Martin Samuel says people always complain to him about how much resource in the industry devotes to Manchester United. Well, now they have the web metrics, it turns out that's people want to read about.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,190
    Emails.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Share options are a one way bet, and therefore encourage firms to take risks. Stock up 20%! Whoppeee... Stock down 20%, well, it's the shareholders that lose.

    Much better to have a system where management can borrow to buy stock, so they will genuinely think like owners.

    So, after I get Demographics Two out, and my "The Trouble With EBITDA" (that I've wanted to do for ever), I might well do a piece on the dangers of share options.

    I'd go as far as to say that share options were a contributing factor the financial crisis. They basically encouraged bank managements to act irresponsibly.

    I'd be wary of those hypotheses which seem rather to beg the question.

    To take the second first, that share options encourage irresponsibility, there is a hidden assumption that management or even traders could identify and quantify risk accurately, and it really looks as if they cannot. A major cause of the global financial crisis was that what people thought was risk-free turned out not to be. It wasn't that managers or traders were intentionally backing 50/1 shots. Now, it is possible that share options encouraged behaviour that with hindsight turned out to be unwise but even that is a stretch.

    The first, that managers can borrow to buy shares, and that will make them think like owners. Well, managers can already borrow money to buy shares and if anyone wants to join the party, Wonga is looking for new borrowers -- you can spend the money on new shares or new cars; they don't care. But even if we grant this will make managers think like owners, are we sure this is a good thing? Surely owners, especially of startups, are likely to have been aggressive risk-takers. Maybe once a firm is established, that is not what is wanted. Ask Elon Musk.

    But even then moral hazard remains: if our manager who thinks like an owner because he borrowed to buy shares, then the upside of a share price rise remains, just as with share options, and the downside is defaulting on the loan and even bankruptcy but as Donald Trump might have observed, you can pick yourself up and roll the dice again.
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,905
    daodao said:

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
    What are the consequences for the UK of reneging on the Irish backstop?
  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
    What are the consequences for the UK of reneging on the Irish backstop?
    No deal, I presume.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    There are also some sectors where it's harder to make a living. The average income of an author continues to decline. Forget the precise figure but the last I saw was well under £10,000 a year. Obviously, that's not sustainable as a career for most people. Alas.
  • Update on Harris bets:

    Got a reply from Ladbrokes. There's no record of them, apparently. If I knew the bet IDs then tracing said bets might be possible.

    I'm sure I'm not alone in simply not taking notes of that detail when betting, but I'm going to go back and find the bet IDs for all the bets I can still see.

    The stakes I put down were very small, but with a potential 67 and 26 winner, I'm still less than thrilled.
  • Does anyone know how to find out bet IDs going back more than a few months? Brilliantly, I can see bets (Ladbrokes) going back to April last year, but can only get bet IDs for those in the last few months.

    Just delighted by this.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    Good morning, everyone.

    There are also some sectors where it's harder to make a living. The average income of an author continues to decline. Forget the precise figure but the last I saw was well under £10,000 a year. Obviously, that's not sustainable as a career for most people. Alas.

    "When I left school my father said to me "You're a man now son, you need to work for a living or you'll starve." So I became an author, so I could do both."
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612
    edited September 2018
    daodao said:

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
    To be fair, May did NOT concede a NI-only Backstop in December last year, nor did she concede that either NI or the UK would actually remain in the CU as part of that backstop.

    I agree it was very stupid to go down this road at all. When Barnier came up with his 'legally binding' backstop text in March the correct response would have been to withdraw the backstop undertaking on the grounds that the UK clearly had not agreed to what was now being proposed. But instead of standing her ground she continued to concede and look where that got us.

    It is of course nonsense that an FTA requires a hard border either in NI or the Irish Sea. That is just Brussels propaganda.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,473
    daodao said:

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
    What are the consequences for the UK of reneging on the Irish backstop?
    No deal, I presume.
    Worse than that, it would trash our reputation for sticking to our word. Not something very wise to do when we are going to be actively negotiating with multiple countries.

    Having agreed the Backstop we need to stick to it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,885

    Does anyone know how to find out bet IDs going back more than a few months? Brilliantly, I can see bets (Ladbrokes) going back to April last year, but can only get bet IDs for those in the last few months.

    Just delighted by this.

    This is an issue that affects all traditional (Internet bookmakers) and anyone who has long term bets. It's a disgrace that bets seemingly disappear off the system now and something that has changed in the last couple of years. I have a long term Froome to win 5 TDF bet for instance that I have an email trail with Ladbrokes acknowledging the bet, but I damn well ought to be able to see it on the system somehow and can not. Bookies should not offer long term bets if they don't intend to keep a record visible for the customer online.

  • Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    I completely agree.

    Share options are a one way bet, and therefore encourage firms to take risks. Stock up 20%! Whoppeee... Stock down 20%, well, it's the shareholders that lose.

    Much better to have a system where management can borrow to buy stock, so they will genuinely think like owners.

    So, after I get Demographics Two out, and my "The Trouble With EBITDA" (that I've wanted to do for ever), I might well do a piece on the dangers of share options.

    I'd go as far as to say that share options were a contributing factor the financial crisis. They basically encouraged bank managements to act irresponsibly.
    Surely the best way to treat executive share options is as Apple did with Steve Jobs when he came back - pay him $1 a year salary so his shares become a two way bet.
    As I've said passim, one thing I'd like to see changed is when management get different options grants to the pleb staff. For instance, theirs vest in six months whilst the plebs' vest in three years. This almost encourages the management to make short-term good news to push the share price up, at the expense of long-term business.

    (And yes, this has bitten me in the past.)

    I have never directly made any money from share options in any company I have worked at - and neither has Mrs J. I'd much rather have an extra few grand on my salary.

    Not that I'm earning at the moment ...
  • Anyway, e-mailed Ladbrokes again, asking for all my bet IDs. I think the Harris bets are the only ones that have gone walkies, but it's less than good. I'll be bloody annoyed if she wins.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    On topic: I like the video but would have appreciated some stats to back it up. I found myself worrying that you can make any number of plausible narratives which aren't borne out. For example, how has the number of jobs over a lifetime changed over time (which if memory serves not all data shows has accelerated in the last 20-30 years, https://www.edsurge.com/news/2017-07-20-how-many-times-will-people-change-jobs-the-myth-of-the-endlessly-job-hopping-millennial), or how has the % of people working for large/small firms changed over time?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    I completely agree.

    Share options are a one way bet, and therefore encourage firms to take risks. Stock up 20%! Whoppeee... Stock down 20%, well, it's the shareholders that lose.

    Much better to have a system where management can borrow to buy stock, so they will genuinely think like owners.

    So, after I get Demographics Two out, and my "The Trouble With EBITDA" (that I've wanted to do for ever), I might well do a piece on the dangers of share options.

    I'd go as far as to say that share options were a contributing factor the financial crisis. They basically encouraged bank managements to act irresponsibly.
    Share options are fine - it’s the focus on stupid things like eps as grant criteria that’s the issue. The underlying challenge is how to fix the principal agent problem

    Best definition of EBITDA I heard was (inevitably) Buffett: he called it “earnings before bad stuff”
  • Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone know how to find out bet IDs going back more than a few months? Brilliantly, I can see bets (Ladbrokes) going back to April last year, but can only get bet IDs for those in the last few months.

    Just delighted by this.

    This is an issue that affects all traditional (Internet bookmakers) and anyone who has long term bets. It's a disgrace that bets seemingly disappear off the system now and something that has changed in the last couple of years. I have a long term Froome to win 5 TDF bet for instance that I have an email trail with Ladbrokes acknowledging the bet, but I damn well ought to be able to see it on the system somehow and can not. Bookies should not offer long term bets if they don't intend to keep a record visible for the customer online.
    That sounds awful. I wonder what their excuse is for not doing so?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation
  • For those who think that Northern Ireland is a simple problem to solve. I particularly like the part where TMay dismisses three of the options. The fourth option of a united Ireland wouln't go down well with the DUP.
    https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/950636658453500/
  • For those who think that Northern Ireland is a simple problem to solve. I particularly like the part where TMay dismisses three of the options. The fourth option of a united Ireland wouln't go down well with the DUP.
    https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/950636658453500/

    sorry wrong link, try this one
    https://www.facebook.com/Vox/videos/246000362776585/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,885
    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone know how to find out bet IDs going back more than a few months? Brilliantly, I can see bets (Ladbrokes) going back to April last year, but can only get bet IDs for those in the last few months.

    Just delighted by this.

    This is an issue that affects all traditional (Internet bookmakers) and anyone who has long term bets. It's a disgrace that bets seemingly disappear off the system now and something that has changed in the last couple of years. I have a long term Froome to win 5 TDF bet for instance that I have an email trail with Ladbrokes acknowledging the bet, but I damn well ought to be able to see it on the system somehow and can not. Bookies should not offer long term bets if they don't intend to keep a record visible for the customer online.

    I would affect anyone who placed a bet on say Hungary to leave the EU as suggested a tlfew threads back btw so is something this site needs to make a noise about.
  • Mr. Pulpstar, I wish I'd known sooner :(

    I have taken screenshots of my current outstanding bets (three dozen). It's not just the potential of lost winnings, but also that there's a certain sum locked up. Even if my bets average £3, that's a hundred quid.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
    What are the consequences for the UK of reneging on the Irish backstop?
    Just to be clear Robert - it’s the EU that changed the agreement not the Brits. We signed up to a U.K. wide backstop
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,885

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone know how to find out bet IDs going back more than a few months? Brilliantly, I can see bets (Ladbrokes) going back to April last year, but can only get bet IDs for those in the last few months.

    Just delighted by this.

    This is an issue that affects all traditional (Internet bookmakers) and anyone who has long term bets. It's a disgrace that bets seemingly disappear off the system now and something that has changed in the last couple of years. I have a long term Froome to win 5 TDF bet for instance that I have an email trail with Ladbrokes acknowledging the bet, but I damn well ought to be able to see it on the system somehow and can not. Bookies should not offer long term bets if they don't intend to keep a record visible for the customer online.
    That sounds awful. I wonder what their excuse is for not doing so?
    It is not just Ladbrokes, all bookmakers don't have visibility on bets greater than about a year old now. The reasoning is that THEY can still see the bet IDs and they do generally pay out, but not always.. sometimes a human intervention is needed - Berlusconi NOT to run for his former party is a bet I made with Paddy and took 4 years to come in at 4-7.. it was a cert, but when the election with declared candidates arrived the bet wasn't paid out as promptly as should be expected.

    If I'd forgotten about the bet with the new system and not made an extra note of it, perhaps the bookie would have just kept my cash.

    It isn't an issue for bets placed in person as you just keep the slip in your sock drawer, but one doesn't expect to have to print every bet and ID out from online, though that's probably wise (Or keep a pdf say) of each bet now. It's a pain though and all done because it suits the bookie for the average football punter not go go able to see huge lifetime losses.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,962

    Good morning, everyone.

    There are also some sectors where it's harder to make a living. The average income of an author continues to decline. Forget the precise figure but the last I saw was well under £10,000 a year. Obviously, that's not sustainable as a career for most people. Alas.

    My wife's publishing friend once told me the average sales for a new work of genre fiction with trade publishing deal is 280! Fucking LOL. Self publishing has massively be disrupted the industry. Trying to make a living as an author now is like being a prozzy in Hartlepool: not viable, too many competitors are just giving it away.
  • Mr. Pulpstar, just to add (and I agree with everything that you're saying) that stopping people seeing their unsettled bets has no reasoning at all behind it. Doesn't even stop people seeing lifetime losses to let them see what unsettled bets they have.
  • Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation

    CUs benefit those inside - and any third country that has a trade agreement with the CU, such as the multiple African, Latin American and Caribbean countries that have FTAs of one kind or another with the EU.

  • Mr. Ace, makes me feel rather better about breaking into four figures with Bane of Souls (although everything else I did solo did not. Unsure about anthology sales figures).

    It's not just self-publishing altering things, although that has drastically changed the game. The mid-grid has become a lot thinner too. There aren't as many writers between enthusiastic hobbyists and megastars any more. It's not good for writers or readers that there's a tiny chance of making even a meagre living from it.

    As an aside, working on a new book. Not sure of an ETA but the first draft is nearly done.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Does anyone know how to find out bet IDs going back more than a few months? Brilliantly, I can see bets (Ladbrokes) going back to April last year, but can only get bet IDs for those in the last few months.

    Just delighted by this.

    This is an issue that affects all traditional (Internet bookmakers) and anyone who has long term bets. It's a disgrace that bets seemingly disappear off the system now and something that has changed in the last couple of years. I have a long term Froome to win 5 TDF bet for instance that I have an email trail with Ladbrokes acknowledging the bet, but I damn well ought to be able to see it on the system somehow and can not. Bookies should not offer long term bets if they don't intend to keep a record visible for the customer online.
    That sounds awful. I wonder what their excuse is for not doing so?
    It is not just Ladbrokes, all bookmakers don't have visibility on bets greater than about a year old now. The reasoning is that THEY can still see the bet IDs and they do generally pay out, but not always.. sometimes a human intervention is needed - Berlusconi NOT to run for his former party is a bet I made with Paddy and took 4 years to come in at 4-7.. it was a cert, but when the election with declared candidates arrived the bet wasn't paid out as promptly as should be expected.

    If I'd forgotten about the bet with the new system and not made an extra note of it, perhaps the bookie would have just kept my cash.

    It isn't an issue for bets placed in person as you just keep the slip in your sock drawer, but one doesn't expect to have to print every bet and ID out from online, though that's probably wise (Or keep a pdf say) of each bet now. It's a pain though and all done because it suits the bookie for the average football punter not go go able to see huge lifetime losses.
    FYI, this discussion has made me realise my bet from 2012 on 'Alien Existence not to be discovered by 2020' isn't visible on my PaddyPower account, gah! Thanks for flagging, I'll take screenshots in future.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,885

    Mr. Pulpstar, just to add (and I agree with everything that you're saying) that stopping people seeing their unsettled bets has no reasoning at all behind it. Doesn't even stop people seeing lifetime losses to let them see what unsettled bets they have.

    It's an 'improvement' all bookies have made s emingly, the only place that keeps accurate long term positions is Betfair seemingly, and they premium charge the profitable long term punter for the service..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,885

    Mr. Pulpstar, just to add (and I agree with everything that you're saying) that stopping people seeing their unsettled bets has no reasoning at all behind it. Doesn't even stop people seeing lifetime losses to let them see what unsettled bets they have.

    It's an 'improvement' all bookies have made s emingly, the only place that keeps accurate long term positions is Betfair seemingly, and they premium charge the profitable long term punter for the service..
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,885

    Mr. Pulpstar, just to add (and I agree with everything that you're saying) that stopping people seeing their unsettled bets has no reasoning at all behind it. Doesn't even stop people seeing lifetime losses to let them see what unsettled bets they have.

    Saves a few pennies on front end server costs. To be honest with you the bods probably forgot bets don't have to be on the next football match when placed
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,893

    For those who think that Northern Ireland is a simple problem to solve. I particularly like the part where TMay dismisses three of the options. The fourth option of a united Ireland wouln't go down well with the DUP.
    https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/950636658453500/

    This the promises and actions of the Conservative and Unionist Party 110 or so years ago coming back to bite them on the bum !
  • Good morning, everyone.

    There are also some sectors where it's harder to make a living. The average income of an author continues to decline. Forget the precise figure but the last I saw was well under £10,000 a year. Obviously, that's not sustainable as a career for most people. Alas.

    It’s easy to forget but SeanT when he first started posting on here didn’t have an awful lot of money.

    Success came to him relatively late in life, and was because he worked hard, was very, very good and had a couple of decent breaks in breaking into the mass market.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,080
    Good video by Robert once again but as he acknowledges it barely scratches the surface of the implications of modern work practices.

    The problem I see is that our economy is increasingly built around the traditional forms of employment which barely exist outside the public sector and sometimes not even there. So we purchase our housing on 25 year mortgages. In traditional employment this is a good risk because most will be employed by the same company for that period with minor risks of ill health, death etc that can be covered by insurance. In the modern world without job security it is a much bigger risk. So the lender demands much higher deposits to cover that default risk and a significant number of people are excluded from the housing market.

    Even those helped by the bank of mum and dad are not without risk. Their employment is unpredictable. Ever larger numbers find that the only employer who might treat them reasonably is themselves and go self employed. Many are self employed involuntarily. As some authors discover this excludes even minimum wage. What these changes consistently do is take the risks away from the (short term) employer and put them on the employee. This makes them a much worse credit risk.

    We still have those in the public sector who, in the event of ill health get 6 months on full pay and 6 months on half pay, who get a year on full pay for maternity, who have final salary, index linked pension and can be pretty much guaranteed a "package" when the time comes involving payment of substantial sums. Even there, however, the pressure is on this platinum plating. Pensions become more based on average earnings, caps are imposed on packages, HR departments start muttering about capability dismissals much earlier, etc etc. Much of corporate Britain used to have similar rights but now they don't and the more alien these sorts of rights come to peoples' experience the more they will be attacked.

    The bigger problem is that our consumption driven credit based model requires a security of employment that the market is no longer delivering. We should be borrowing less and yet we are borrowing more. This is not going to end well.
  • Mr. Royale, ha. If I want to write solely based on income prospects, I'd have to shift from fantasy to a mix of thrillers and frisky material (oddly, there was something of a request for frisky material involving the Sir Edric character. Which might be my own fault for making his paramour a bit of a sado-masochist).
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Income inequality is currently at its lowest point for thirty years.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation

    CUs benefit those inside - and any third country that has a trade agreement with the CU, such as the multiple African, Latin American and Caribbean countries that have FTAs of one kind or another with the EU.

    Those fta with Africa, the zero tarif ones are available only to the under developed economies and only for unfinished goods. You want to sell sugar in the EU, that fine, grow the stuff, and ship it over here in big ships. But don’t dare do anything with it. Don’t put in boxes, don’t finish it in any way... that’s where all the cash is...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564
    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,676

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    For established corporates I agree. Stock options do have a role in startups though. They are a way of attracting talented people who might otherwise be put off by uncompetitive salaries and the high chance the company goes out of business in six months time. So they compensate with a lottery ticket to the company's upside. Cynically, the investors also save a bob or two on salary expense if the company does go belly up.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foxy said:

    daodao said:

    rcs1000 said:

    daodao said:

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
    What are the consequences for the UK of reneging on the Irish backstop?
    No deal, I presume.
    Worse than that, it would trash our reputation for sticking to our word. Not something very wise to do when we are going to be actively negotiating with multiple countries.

    Having agreed the Backstop we need to stick to it.
    Have you actually read the December agreement? It doesn’t say what you think it says
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,676
    FF43 said:

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    For established corporates I agree. Stock options do have a role in startups though. They are a way of attracting talented people who might otherwise be put off by uncompetitive salaries and the high chance the company goes out of business in six months time. So they compensate with a lottery ticket to the company's upside. Cynically, the investors also save a bob or two on salary expense if the company does go belly up.
    I should add the other purpose of stock options is to keep staff locked in. Salary doesn't do that. You need another incentive.
  • kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Indeed. I've often wondered how long PB would survive if it had to pay the appropriate hourly rate to some of our highly paid posters who charge by the hour.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Anyway, e-mailed Ladbrokes again, asking for all my bet IDs. I think the Harris bets are the only ones that have gone walkies, but it's less than good. I'll be bloody annoyed if she wins.

    I think you could threaten a small claims action. They may not show on the website but they will be on the server.
  • notme said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation

    CUs benefit those inside - and any third country that has a trade agreement with the CU, such as the multiple African, Latin American and Caribbean countries that have FTAs of one kind or another with the EU.

    Those fta with Africa, the zero tarif ones are available only to the under developed economies and only for unfinished goods. You want to sell sugar in the EU, that fine, grow the stuff, and ship it over here in big ships. But don’t dare do anything with it. Don’t put in boxes, don’t finish it in any way... that’s where all the cash is...
    The classic case for free trade, as developed by the likes of Ricardo, was based on trade in primary goods. That is, if Country A has an inherent advantage in producing primary good X (say tomatoes grown in a sunny climate) and Country B an advantage in producing primary good Y (say the availability of primary fuel) then free trade made a lot of sense. That is what the EU denies and distorts, because it maintains an artificial market that subsidises agricultural goods at the expense of the third world. The free trade that the EU facilitates is instead that in secondary goods within the EU - manufactured product Z (say cars) that neither Country A nor B has an inherent advantage in producing, but which had far more acute consequences following the accession of low waged Eastern European countries into the trading bloc.
  • Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation
    Some might see that as an argument for remaining inside the customs union with the EU. It means frictionless trade inside the customs union which is what enables the car makers, for instance, to operate just-in-time manufacturing with international supply chains because, crucially, there is no need for customs checks at each border. A free trade agreement does not confer the same benefit.
  • Told you Boris as PM bombs with the voters.

    https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1044486179859701760?s=21
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Mr Dancer,

    I write for fun, and being retired, the small returns don't matter. Self-publishing takes skills I don't possess, so I count myself lucky that a small publisher (Wild Wolf) likes my particular style. I finish the book, refine it a little and send it off. They do all the pictures, blurb (master of menace?), and other stuff, put it out as an e-book, and I occasionally check the score on the Amazon rating system.

    They've published three so far, sometimes offer advice and send me a small royalty cheque from time to time. No way, could I make a living from it.

    Getting four figure readership sounds very impressive, and having read one of your books and enjoyed it, I wish you well for the future. Even if a writers' life is doing a lot for very little, I like to play with sexual stereotypes as I please, even reinforcing them from time to time. It beats gardening.
  • kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Indeed. I've often wondered how long PB would survive if it had to pay the appropriate hourly rate to some of our highly paid posters who charge by the hour.
    I’ve always done pro bono publico work for worthy causes.

    You’re up there with the families of people behind bars.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    edited September 2018

    Told you Boris as PM bombs with the voters.

    https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1044486179859701760?s=21

    But more would prefer Boris...

    In fact, given the cult like status around Jezza, that Boris is just 2pp behind him in terms of people who would actually like him to be PM, I'd say that's pretty damn good.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    Automation and more flexible working and the gig economy are all big changes in the economy, technology has changed the nature of work but also allowed more people to do work outside the office, whether automation leads to a UBI remains to be seen
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    rcs1000 said:

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    I completely agree.

    Share options are a one way bet, and therefore encourage firms to take risks. Stock up 20%! Whoppeee... Stock down 20%, well, it's the shareholders that lose.

    Much better to have a system where management can borrow to buy stock, so they will genuinely think like owners.

    So, after I get Demographics Two out, and my "The Trouble With EBITDA" (that I've wanted to do for ever), I might well do a piece on the dangers of share options.

    I'd go as far as to say that share options were a contributing factor the financial crisis. They basically encouraged bank managements to act irresponsibly.
    That’s a rant. You could track this by looking at behaviours of Goldman Sachs as a partnership and as a listed entity and see whether there are material differences in behaviour. Or, closer to home the behaviours of Gateley as it moved from a closely controlled partnership where partners (members) borrowed to obtain an equity interest. I don’t know but if it’s not been done there’s a doctorate in there.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564

    Told you Boris as PM bombs with the voters.

    https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1044486179859701760?s=21

    More notably i wonder how many of the labour voters not happy with Corbyn bring pm will not vote Labour to prevent it happening at a GE, and the same for Tories not happy with Boris. Not many I'd bet.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation
    Some might see that as an argument for remaining inside the customs union with the EU. It means frictionless trade inside the customs union which is what enables the car makers, for instance, to operate just-in-time manufacturing with international supply chains because, crucially, there is no need for customs checks at each border. A free trade agreement does not confer the same benefit.
    It makes you rich at the expense of making people in developing countries poorer.

    I think that’s immoral
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    matt said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I believe that one of the biggest problems in relation to business remuneration has been the move to provide executives with share options which took root about 30 years ago and has grown ever since. This is a terrible idea.

    Staff earn salaries for their time and skills. Owners take equity risk and need equity returns. Saying to executives that they can get equity returns without taking any of that real personal financial risk fundamentally distorts the free market. CEOs are generally not putting their homes and financial wealth at risk. Once share options started becoming popular, base salaries were able to follow and you end up with a massive inequality between executives and staff.

    If smart people can get super-normal returns without risk, you incentivise these people to stop taking equity risk and simply climb the corporate ladder. But large business is the least productive and lowest growing sector of the economy. We want our smart people to start new businesses, not aspire to climb the ladder in business which increasingly is based on the reduction of competition.

    Share options are not a genuine reward, they are a way of paying massive salaries but taking that money from shareholders rather than recording it as a business expense. They incentivise short term share performance over long term growth. And they give the wrong signals and incentives. Get rid of them.

    I completely agree.

    Share options are a one way bet, and therefore encourage firms to take risks. Stock up 20%! Whoppeee... Stock down 20%, well, it's the shareholders that lose.

    Much better to have a system where management can borrow to buy stock, so they will genuinely think like owners.

    So, after I get Demographics Two out, and my "The Trouble With EBITDA" (that I've wanted to do for ever), I might well do a piece on the dangers of share options.

    I'd go as far as to say that share options were a contributing factor the financial crisis. They basically encouraged bank managements to act irresponsibly.
    That’s a rant. You could track this by looking at behaviours of Goldman Sachs as a partnership and as a listed entity and see whether there are material differences in behaviour. Or, closer to home the behaviours of Gateley as it moved from a closely controlled partnership where partners (members) borrowed to obtain an equity interest. I don’t know but if it’s not been done there’s a doctorate in there.
    Goldman Sachs has changed dramatically - and not for the better - since they changed from being a partnership

    Put simply, people are willing to take more risk with other people’s money (assymetric returns)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    daodao said:

    First, like CETA.

    Not in the idiotic Maybot's book. She's still delusional and appears to have persuaded the Cabinet to continue to support the Chequers' proposals, despite them being dead in the water.

    The UK has wasted over 2 years since the referendum debating with itself over what sort of Brexit it wants (or if it wants it at all) and now there is no time left to choose anything that isn't a ready-made option offered by the EU. This has been pointed out in simple language (in case it wasn't already clear) by Tusk's excellent Instagram.

    Anything other than continued membership, or remaining in both the Customs Union AND Internal Market, will require a hard border in the Irish Sea, given the NI backstop that the Maybot foolishly conceded last December.
    Without the backstop the EU would not have agreed to move onto Phase 2.

    Most voters in NI would accept a border in the Irish Sea but no hard border in Ireland but the DUP will not and as long as the DUP hold the balance of power that is a problem
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564
    edited September 2018
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    "Doctor, we need to act now, the heart is failing!"
    "Hold on a minute, this is important - can you believe russianbot23 seriously thinks that byelection in upper nowhere last night means Corbyn is on track to be pm? I need to call then a fool real quick".
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,893

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
  • tlg86 said:

    Told you Boris as PM bombs with the voters.

    https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1044486179859701760?s=21

    But more would prefer Boris...

    In fact, given the cult like status around Jezza, that Boris is just 2pp behind him in terms of people who would actually like him to be PM, I'd say that's pretty damn good.
    The Tories lead by 4% with YouGov, toxic Boris is a drag on the Tories.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    Told you Boris as PM bombs with the voters.

    https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1044486179859701760?s=21

    But more would prefer Boris...

    In fact, given the cult like status around Jezza, that Boris is just 2pp behind him in terms of people who would actually like him to be PM, I'd say that's pretty damn good.
    The Tories lead by 4% with YouGov, toxic Boris is a drag on the Tories.
    It would be interesting to see the same analysis for other Tories.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    As long as the mediator or client does not see it I suppose
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    "Doctor, we need to act now, the heart is failing!"
    "Hold on a minute, this is important - can you believe russianbot23 seriously thinks that byelection in upper nowhere last night means Corbyn is on track to be pm? I need to call then a fool real quick".
    Yes you do not want PB to lead to a negligence suit
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Good morning, everyone.

    There are also some sectors where it's harder to make a living. The average income of an author continues to decline. Forget the precise figure but the last I saw was well under £10,000 a year. Obviously, that's not sustainable as a career for most people. Alas.

    It’s easy to forget but SeanT when he first started posting on here didn’t have an awful lot of money.

    Success came to him relatively late in life, and was because he worked hard, was very, very good and had a couple of decent breaks in breaking into the mass market.
    The SeanT fanboyism on here is nauseating. Last night we had ‘RoyalBlue’ attacking another poster by assuming he “didn’t earn as much as SeanT”. Now this toadyish sycophancy. There are many high earning self-made people on this site. Yuk.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,560
    Foxy said:



    Worse than that, it would trash our reputation for sticking to our word. Not something very wise to do when we are going to be actively negotiating with multiple countries.

    Having agreed the Backstop we need to stick to it.

    I'm not convinced that's true. Lots of countries - and the EU - break their word all the time. And yet people are still willing to negotiate and deal with them. From Argentina on debt to North Korea on nuclear weapons to the EU on subsidiarity, being seen as untrustworthy doesn't seem to have the penalty many people think it does.

    I think the blow would be more to our own self-image.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,930
    edited September 2018

    Told you Boris as PM bombs with the voters.

    https://twitter.com/tseofpb/status/1044486179859701760?s=21

    That does not really tell us much, more Tory voters prefer Boris, more Labour voters prefer Corbyn, quelle surprise. Plus UKIP voters I expect would prefer Boris and they were not included here.

    The last Yougov poll testing this had the Tories under Boris tied with Corbyn Labour
  • I've deliberately not mentioned it on here, but I think I can now things have settled down.

    The jobs market in tech - or at least certain areas of it - appears to be booming. Mrs J got made redundant along with some colleagues in the early summer. She did not immediately look for a job, but word got around and before her last day five companies had been in contact with her, and within a week of finishing she had three firm offers, one without an interview. She chose one with a large pay increase and negotiated the summer off, so she could have a break after her old, rather exhausting, job.

    What's more, she's working with some old friends in her new job.

    I cannot say if this is true for the whole tech sector, but her area is booming.

    Despite Brexit. ;)

    (Please forgive this rather smug post. I am very happy for her.)

    It should also be noted that hers is very much a 'new economy' job. She's been made redundant three or four times, always with her team, but has always got another job pretty much immediately. There's relatively little job security, but lots of demand.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
    I once had to chair a quarterly meeting with a major client, who gradually built up the attendee list over time, for reasons known only to them. By the time I left that job, there was up to 15 people gathered around the table, 12-13 of whom remained entirely mute for the two hour duration.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,534
    Anazina said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    There are also some sectors where it's harder to make a living. The average income of an author continues to decline. Forget the precise figure but the last I saw was well under £10,000 a year. Obviously, that's not sustainable as a career for most people. Alas.

    It’s easy to forget but SeanT when he first started posting on here didn’t have an awful lot of money.

    Success came to him relatively late in life, and was because he worked hard, was very, very good and had a couple of decent breaks in breaking into the mass market.
    The SeanT fanboyism on here is nauseating. Last night we had ‘RoyalBlue’ attacking another poster by assuming he “didn’t earn as much as SeanT”. Now this toadyish sycophancy. There are many high earning self-made people on this site. Yuk.
    Well said. I am sure he deserves his recent success, and well done to him. But let's not overlook his many obnoxious posts, often later passed off by him as ok because he was drunk or 'being ironic'.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905

    I've deliberately not mentioned it on here, but I think I can now things have settled down.

    The jobs market in tech - or at least certain areas of it - appears to be booming. Mrs J got made redundant along with some colleagues in the early summer. She did not immediately look for a job, but word got around and before her last day five companies had been in contact with her, and within a week of finishing she had three firm offers, one without an interview. She chose one with a large pay increase and negotiated the summer off, so she could have a break after her old, rather exhausting, job.

    What's more, she's working with some old friends in her new job.

    I cannot say if this is true for the whole tech sector, but her area is booming.

    Despite Brexit. ;)

    (Please forgive this rather smug post. I am very happy for her.)

    It should also be noted that hers is very much a 'new economy' job. She's been made redundant three or four times, always with her team, but has always got another job pretty much immediately. There's relatively little job security, but lots of demand.

    Congratulations to her!
  • Mr. CD13, thanks :)

    Mr. Charles, the sums involved don't make it worth it, I think (plus I have zero experience of such things). It's just odd and disheartening and entirely unnecessary.

    Hopefully I'll be able to get the bet IDs for all my outstanding bets. Only 3 of 36 are recent enough for me to do it myself. Because why would you want people to be able to check their own bets?

    Anyway, longer term I'll just have to shift money out of Ladbrokes and put it into the Betfair Exchange. Probably still use Ladbrokes for F1 stuff (we'll see if any of my title bets come off. I have some winning bets if either Bottas or Raikkonen is top three, so expect at least one of those to come off.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,222
    edited September 2018
    Listening to Keir Starmer on 5 live this morning he said he voted remain, does not want to leave, and would vote remain again. The conclusion of that is that labour's brexit secretary is a fully paid up member of the second referendum (not the dishonest peoples vote) and is not attempting to be constructive on actually leaving.

    I believe there is another agenda working out in labour and almost certainly accounts why labour have not split yet because it is so obvious that if they can stop brexit they stop Corbyn and McDonnells mad cap policies.

    At a stroke McDonnell's speech yesterday hits the buffers. Indeed that is why McDonnell and McCluskey will fight against remain on the ballot.

    And of course he will have lost tons of labour votes in the leave area
  • Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
    I once had to chair a quarterly meeting with a major client, who gradually built up the attendee list over time, for reasons known only to them. By the time I left that job, there was up to 15 people gathered around the table, 12-13 of whom remained entirely mute for the two hour duration.
    On one occasion I was given a project to win a major contract - the issue was we only had two weeks in which to get it. I had a multidisciplinary team, and I decided to have two meetings every day so people would know what was going on - one in the morning, and one in the late afternoon. Each was a maximum of five minutes long, enough time to check everyone was focused on what they should be doing (managing engineers is a bit like herding cats).

    Its amazing what you can achieve in just five minutes with over fifteen people in the room.

    IMO it worked really well. Especially as Mrs J was one of the engineers. ;)
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,893
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
    I once had to chair a quarterly meeting with a major client, who gradually built up the attendee list over time, for reasons known only to them. By the time I left that job, there was up to 15 people gathered around the table, 12-13 of whom remained entirely mute for the two hour duration.
    Many, many years ago I was elected to a representative committee. When I attended the first I realised I was the youngest member, by quite a few years. After listening to the Chair, the Secretary, and I think one other, discussing and agreeing everything on the agenda I said something and was looked at as though I had two heads or something. Apparently I was elected to attend but not contribute.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564

    Listening to Keir Starmer on 5 live this morning he said he voted remain, does not want to leave, and would vote remain again. The conclusion of that is that labour's brexit secretary is a fully paid up member of the second referendum (not the dishonest peoples vote) and is not attempting to be constructive on actually leaving.

    I believe there is another agenda working out in labour and almost certainly accounts why labour have not split yet because it is so obvious that if they can stop brexit they stop Corbyn and McDonnells mad cap policies.

    At a stroke McDonnell's speech yesterday hits the buffers. Indeed that is why McDonnell and McCluskey will fight against remain on the ballot.

    And yet so long as they don't actually have to offer anything it's on their interests, on this issue, to all talk about achieving different things.

    Amusingly it's a strategy putting faith in the government being competent enough to get a deal.

    But it's also why those who think a GE would solve anything on the basis labour don't care about the issue as much are wrong.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    Josias - somewhere along the way, managers lost the art of the quick meeting. Five minutes, standing up, is the ideal model in many cases, as you say.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
    I once had to chair a quarterly meeting with a major client, who gradually built up the attendee list over time, for reasons known only to them. By the time I left that job, there was up to 15 people gathered around the table, 12-13 of whom remained entirely mute for the two hour duration.
    Many, many years ago I was elected to a representative committee. When I attended the first I realised I was the youngest member, by quite a few years. After listening to the Chair, the Secretary, and I think one other, discussing and agreeing everything on the agenda I said something and was looked at as though I had two heads or something. Apparently I was elected to attend but not contribute.
    Like been a Labour MP in Blair’s first term.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833

    I've deliberately not mentioned it on here, but I think I can now things have settled down.

    The jobs market in tech - or at least certain areas of it - appears to be booming. Mrs J got made redundant along with some colleagues in the early summer. She did not immediately look for a job, but word got around and before her last day five companies had been in contact with her, and within a week of finishing she had three firm offers, one without an interview. She chose one with a large pay increase and negotiated the summer off, so she could have a break after her old, rather exhausting, job.

    What's more, she's working with some old friends in her new job.

    I cannot say if this is true for the whole tech sector, but her area is booming.

    Despite Brexit. ;)

    (Please forgive this rather smug post. I am very happy for her.)

    It should also be noted that hers is very much a 'new economy' job. She's been made redundant three or four times, always with her team, but has always got another job pretty much immediately. There's relatively little job security, but lots of demand.

    Yes, I’ve been looking at the U.K. tech market over the summer too, and it’s currently very healthy for contractors and pretty good for employees.

    Congrats to your wife on the new job, good luck to her. :+1:
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
    I once had to chair a quarterly meeting with a major client, who gradually built up the attendee list over time, for reasons known only to them. By the time I left that job, there was up to 15 people gathered around the table, 12-13 of whom remained entirely mute for the two hour duration.
    Many, many years ago I was elected to a representative committee. When I attended the first I realised I was the youngest member, by quite a few years. After listening to the Chair, the Secretary, and I think one other, discussing and agreeing everything on the agenda I said something and was looked at as though I had two heads or something. Apparently I was elected to attend but not contribute.
    Sigh - if only such examples were isolated cases. I fear that is more common than it should be!
  • I've deliberately not mentioned it on here, but I think I can now things have settled down.

    The jobs market in tech - or at least certain areas of it - appears to be booming. Mrs J got made redundant along with some colleagues in the early summer. She did not immediately look for a job, but word got around and before her last day five companies had been in contact with her, and within a week of finishing she had three firm offers, one without an interview. She chose one with a large pay increase and negotiated the summer off, so she could have a break after her old, rather exhausting, job.

    What's more, she's working with some old friends in her new job.

    I cannot say if this is true for the whole tech sector, but her area is booming.

    Despite Brexit. ;)

    (Please forgive this rather smug post. I am very happy for her.)

    It should also be noted that hers is very much a 'new economy' job. She's been made redundant three or four times, always with her team, but has always got another job pretty much immediately. There's relatively little job security, but lots of demand.

    That is a good news story - really pleased for both of you and well done to her
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,564

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
    I once had to chair a quarterly meeting with a major client, who gradually built up the attendee list over time, for reasons known only to them. By the time I left that job, there was up to 15 people gathered around the table, 12-13 of whom remained entirely mute for the two hour duration.
    Many, many years ago I was elected to a representative committee. When I attended the first I realised I was the youngest member, by quite a few years. After listening to the Chair, the Secretary, and I think one other, discussing and agreeing everything on the agenda I said something and was looked at as though I had two heads or something. Apparently I was elected to attend but not contribute.
    I attend committees practically every day - it was probably just surprise as usually most people on one do not care to contribute.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation
    Some might see that as an argument for remaining inside the customs union with the EU. It means frictionless trade inside the customs union which is what enables the car makers, for instance, to operate just-in-time manufacturing with international supply chains because, crucially, there is no need for customs checks at each border. A free trade agreement does not confer the same benefit.
    It makes you rich at the expense of making people in developing countries poorer.

    I think that’s immoral
    It may be immoral, if that is what it does. However my point in urging RCS to make a video is the number of politicians (and even pbers) who talk about CUs and FTAs as if they were interchangeable; they are not.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,893

    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    The biggest change to the nature of work is all these doctors, lawyers and high powered business folk able to spend time during the working day commenting on political websites.

    #obviousjokes

    Depends what time, on breaks yes in the middle of a surgery or contract negotiation may be a bit more difficult
    I can multi task.

    I once wrote a PB thread during a mediation hearing.
    I’ve been to meetings like that; apparently attendance was required but others did all the contributing. All one had to do was nod or vote at the appropriate time.
    I once had to chair a quarterly meeting with a major client, who gradually built up the attendee list over time, for reasons known only to them. By the time I left that job, there was up to 15 people gathered around the table, 12-13 of whom remained entirely mute for the two hour duration.
    On one occasion I was given a project to win a major contract - the issue was we only had two weeks in which to get it. I had a multidisciplinary team, and I decided to have two meetings every day so people would know what was going on - one in the morning, and one in the late afternoon. Each was a maximum of five minutes long, enough time to check everyone was focused on what they should be doing (managing engineers is a bit like herding cats).

    Its amazing what you can achieve in just five minutes with over fifteen people in the room.

    IMO it worked really well. Especially as Mrs J was one of the engineers. ;)
    Yes, meetings like that don’t need to take long. Ensuring, in a meeting like that, that everyone’s focused is a very sensible way of managing. No-one wants to look as though they’re off target.

    I take it you won the contract?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833
    Anazina said:

    Josias - somewhere along the way, managers lost the art of the quick meeting. Five minutes, standing up, is the ideal model in many cases, as you say.

    Agreed. I once worked in an hotel, we had a heads of department meeeting every morning that was just that - no more than 10 minutes, standing up, no coffee, quick and to the point on the business of the day, with any extended discussions between departments followed up afterwards. Worked incredibly well in a large and complex environment
  • I've deliberately not mentioned it on here, but I think I can now things have settled down.

    The jobs market in tech - or at least certain areas of it - appears to be booming. Mrs J got made redundant along with some colleagues in the early summer. She did not immediately look for a job, but word got around and before her last day five companies had been in contact with her, and within a week of finishing she had three firm offers, one without an interview. She chose one with a large pay increase and negotiated the summer off, so she could have a break after her old, rather exhausting, job.

    What's more, she's working with some old friends in her new job.

    I cannot say if this is true for the whole tech sector, but her area is booming.

    Despite Brexit. ;)

    (Please forgive this rather smug post. I am very happy for her.)

    It should also be noted that hers is very much a 'new economy' job. She's been made redundant three or four times, always with her team, but has always got another job pretty much immediately. There's relatively little job security, but lots of demand.

    I'd say it's almost totally down to Brexit. We are finding it very hard to find programmers and developers because the supply has been significantly reduced. This is almost certainly down to less of these highly-skilled people coming over from other parts of the EU. It is very good news indeed for people like your wife, and good luck to her, but not so good for businesses that need IT skills in order to expand and develop the products that will lead to them creating more jobs and taxable income. It takes us back to this pre-referendum thread:

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/06/13/guest-slot-the-impact-of-leaving-the-eu-on-londons-technology-start-up-scene/

  • Mr. Jessop, glad to hear your lady wife is doing very well :)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,534

    Listening to Keir Starmer on 5 live this morning he said he voted remain, does not want to leave, and would vote remain again. The conclusion of that is that labour's brexit secretary is a fully paid up member of the second referendum (not the dishonest peoples vote) and is not attempting to be constructive on actually leaving.

    I believe there is another agenda working out in labour and almost certainly accounts why labour have not split yet because it is so obvious that if they can stop brexit they stop Corbyn and McDonnells mad cap policies.

    At a stroke McDonnell's speech yesterday hits the buffers. Indeed that is why McDonnell and McCluskey will fight against remain on the ballot.

    And of course he will have lost tons of labour votes in the leave area

    I think you have got this wrong Big_G. I am not convinced by any arguments I have heard so far that Remaining would seriously dent Corbyn's agenda. He just sees the EU as a capitalist club and would prefer on balance to be out. But I don't think he or McDonnell are that bothered. Starmer on the other hand really wants to stay (as does a good proportion of Labour's support, particularly its young support).
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The video's a bit ... thought provoking. Or it would be if it weren't 5 to 4 in the morning.

    Not doing myself down, or anything, but I think I should have edited the script down another 20% and tightened it up a bit. The content is good, but I'm a bit long-winded this time around. Probably because I've been simultaneously working on the very data heavy Demographics II.
    A couple of suggestions for future videos:
    1) Brexit-relevant -- why CUs are lovelier than FTAs because of frictions, and the gravitational model of international trade and Europe being closer than America and all that.
    2) changes in the way capitalism works
    a) branding means goods that ought to be fungible now aren't
    b) the return of conglomerates eg Amazon -- as opposed to the 30-year fashion for breaking them up
    c) company success (Amazon again) now depending on share prices rising (and hence market cap) rather than actual profits
    CUs benefit those inside at the expense of those outside. They are not free trade - they are tools for wealth diversion not maximisation
    Some might see that as an argument for remaining inside the customs union with the EU. It means frictionless trade inside the customs union which is what enables the car makers, for instance, to operate just-in-time manufacturing with international supply chains because, crucially, there is no need for customs checks at each border. A free trade agreement does not confer the same benefit.
    It makes you rich at the expense of making people in developing countries poorer.

    I think that’s immoral

    How does giving trade access to a market of over 400 million consumers make people in the developing world poorer?

This discussion has been closed.