And so the the amour propre goes on. The reality is that the more important remainers, those in the cabinet like May and Hunt did this 2 years ago. They engaged with Leavers and sought compromises that addressed their concerns, mitigated the damage but respected the vote.
Yes, and judging from her initial words and approach May really did at that time seem willing to deliver a meaningful Brexit. Johnson continues to applaud her early approach as set out at Lancaster House. The problem is that the course she is following now is very different from her approach 2 years ago. So all the engagement and seeking of compromises seems to have been only a political tool to keep Johnson and Davis on board for as long as possible, before they were presented a very different approach in the form of the Chequers ultimatum.
That is how many Leavers see it. To the extent anyone in the U.K. is, remainers have complete control of the process, the negotiation and the conclusion.
And so the the amour propre goes on. The reality is that the more important remainers, those in the cabinet like May and Hunt did this 2 years ago. They engaged with Leavers and sought compromises that addressed their concerns, mitigated the damage but respected the vote.
Yes, and judging from her initial words and approach May really did at that time seem willing to deliver a meaningful Brexit. Johnson continues to applaud her early approach as set out at Lancaster House. The problem is that the course she is following now is very different from her approach 2 years ago. So all the engagement and seeking of compromises seems to have been only a political tool to keep Johnson and Davis on board for as long as possible, before they were presented a very different approach in the form of the Chequers ultimatum.
Lancaster House isn't as much of a hard Brexit manifesto as people remember. It says this about the customs union for example:
Whether that means we must reach a completely new customs agreement, become an associate member of the Customs Union in some way, or remain a signatory to some elements of it, I hold no preconceived position.
Regardless of whether she had or had not made up her mind, she eventually settled on "Remain a signatory to almost all elements of it, and pay through the nose for doing so."
And so the the amour propre goes on. The reality is that the more important remainers, those in the cabinet like May and Hunt did this 2 years ago. They engaged with Leavers and sought compromises that addressed their concerns, mitigated the damage but respected the vote. They will ultimately decide what form Brexit takes. Some Leavers will be disappointed but the vote and democracy will be respected.
As for the professionally offended who have sat on the sidelines waiting for an apology and an acknowledgement of their superior intellect and judgement, well who cares? They are irrelevant by choice and we are bored of their wingeing.
Talk me through the compromises made with Remain voters.
Ask Mrs May. Read Chequers. Think about the backstop, the payments, the attempts to obtain friction free trade, the grovelling, the overwhelming respect given to every red line of the EU while ours are dropped. The desperation of this government for a soft Brexit is palpable in everything they do and almost everything they say.
Fair enough, such a deal may well be in our interests, but your bizarre perception that this government has not sought to address Remainers concerns is truly laughable. They have done nothing else.
Are you seriously claiming Leave vowarned.
No Joff, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that the deal this government has sought is one that addresses remainers concerns for the entirely sensible reason that some of those concerns were indeed legitimate. Those remainers who have engaged in the process such as May, Hammond and Hunt have shaped the deal we will sign. The Leavers such as DD and Boris have not. Would a more robust approach have produced a better outcome? We will never know. What we do know is that the deal will be entirely shaped by those remainers who have negotiated it.
Nope - not buying that at all. The idea that anything other than leading the country off a cliff is a soft Brexit designed to appease Remainers is laughable. There was an opportunity after the referendum to build consensus around a genuine soft Brexit, especially as many Remain supporters were not so much pro/EU as anti-major disruption. May’s entirely unnecessary and immensely damaging red lines ended it. The rhetoric of that time also made clear to Remain supporters that their input was not wanted or needed. We are where we are because of a PM who sought only to appease the most extreme of the Tory Brexiteers - and unsuccessfully, of course.
And so the the amour propre goes on. The reality is that the more important remainers, those in the cabinet like May and Hunt did this 2 years ago. They engaged with Leavers and sought compromises that addressed their concerns, mitigated the damage but respected the vote. They will ultimately decide what form Brexit takes. Some Leavers will be disappointed but the vote and democracy will be respected.
As for the professionally offended who have sat on the sidelines waiting for an apology and an acknowledgement of their superior intellect and judgement, well who cares? They are irrelevant by choice and we are bored of their wingeing.
Talk me through the compromises made with Remain voters.
Ask Mrs May. Read Chequers. Think about the backstop, the payments, the attempts to obtain friction free trade, the grovelling, the overwhelming respect given to every red line of the EU while ours are dropped. The desperation of this government for a soft Brexit is palpable in everything they do and almost everything they say.
Fair enough, such a deal may well be in our interests, but your bizarre perception that this government has not sought to address Remainers concerns is truly laughable. They have done nothing else.
Are you seriously claiming Leave vowarned.
No Joff, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that the deal this government has sought is one that addresses remainers concerns for the entirely sensible reason that some of those concerns were indeed legitimate. Those remainers who have engaged in the process such as May, Hammond and Hunt have shaped the deal we will sign. The Leavers such as DD and Boris have not. Would a more robust approach have produced a better outcome? We will never know. What we do know is that the deal will be entirely shaped by those remainers who have negotiated it.
Nope - not buying that at all. The idea that anything other than leading the country off a cliff is a soft Brexit designed to appease Remainers is laughable. There was an opportunity after the referendum to build consensus around a genuine soft Brexit, especially as many Remain supporters were not so much pro/EU as anti-major disruption. May’s entirely unnecessary and immensely damaging red lines ended it. The rhetoric of that time also made clear to Remain supporters that their input was not wanted or needed. We are where we are because of a PM who sought only to appease the most extreme of the Tory Brexiteers - and unsuccessfully, of course.
And so the the amour propre goes on. The reality is that the more important remainers, those in the cabinet like May and Hunt did this 2 years ago. They engaged with Leavers and sought compromises that addressed their concerns, mitigated the damage but respected the vote. They will ultimately decide what form Brexit takes. Some Leavers will be disappointed but the vote and democracy will be respected.
As for the professionally offended who have sat on the sidelines waiting for an apology and an acknowledgement of their superior intellect and judgement, well who cares? They are irrelevant by choice and we are bored of their wingeing.
Talk me through the compromises made with Remain voters.
Still reading your fucking boring, sneering, contemptuous, incoherent, and laboriously patronising tweets two years after you turned into a Bleating Remoaner Twat. There. That's what I've done. To *bridge the gap*. You?
Agree with that. Apart from your missing out "gratuitously offensive wank-piffle".
Article 50, as its British europhile author READILY confesses, is explicitly designed to be SO painful, and SO legally favourable to the EU, that no sane nation would ever consider using it, hence the mess we are in.
The British weren't obliged to use it; The EU side might have said they wouldn't negotiate until it was pulled, but the British could at least have agreed on what *they* wanted to do first instead of activating it then spending 15 months arguing with themselves. TMay did it when she did because the Brexit enthusiasts insisted.
Anyhow, imagine Article 50 wasn't a thing. Any change of status would require a new treaty, with the unanimous agreement of all the member states. Anyone could veto it, either to hold up Brexit or to try to extract concessions. The Irish and the Danes might well have referendums about it. The British really would be head-butting the door until they got brain damage.
Article 50, as its British europhile author READILY confesses, is explicitly designed to be SO painful, and SO legally favourable to the EU, that no sane nation would ever consider using it, hence the mess we are in.
The British weren't obliged to use it; The EU side might have said they wouldn't negotiate until it was pulled, but the British could at least have agreed on what *they* wanted to do first instead of activating it then spending 15 months arguing with themselves. TMay did it when she did because the Brexit enthusiasts insisted.
Anyhow, imagine Article 50 wasn't a thing. Any change of status would require a new treaty, with the unanimous agreement of all the member states. Anyone could veto it, either to hold up Brexit or to try to extract concessions. The Irish and the Danes might well have referendums about it. The British really would be head-butting the door until they got brain damage.
I tend to agree.
If we didn't have Article 50 negotiations would go on forever. Heck, if you want to see what life without Article 50 is like, simply go EEA, and then start discussions about departing from the EU.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Minor politician - thats how folk used to describe N Farage and other powerful voices for LEAVE
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Now it's Theresa May, Javid, Hunt, Corbyn, Thornberry, McDonnell, Starmer etc. All backed remain, and all are now committed to leaving (with the possible exception of Starmer).
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Corbyn himself was soon accused of sabotaging the Remain Campaign. He refused to focus on - or even plan for - the referendum until after the local elections in May. His team cut pro-EU lines from his speeches (the phrase 'that's why I'm campaigning to remain in the EU' was reportedly a frequent victim of such editing) and he avoided events organised by Labour for Britain. Corbyn's office even signed off on a visit to Turkey to talk about the value of open borders, though opposition from within the party meant that this did not go ahead'.
The British General Election of 2017 Philip Cowley and Denis Kavanagh
And so the the amour propre goes on. The reality is that the more important remainers, those in the cabinet like May and Hunt did this 2 years ago. They engaged with Leavers and sought compromises that addressed their concerns, mitigated the damage but respected the vote. They will ultimately decide what form Brexit takes. Some Leavers will be disappointed but the vote and democracy will be respected.
As for the professionally offended who have sat on the sidelines waiting for an apology and an acknowledgement of their superior intellect and judgement, well who cares? They are irrelevant by choice and we are bored of their wingeing.
Talk me through the compromises made with Remain voters.
Ask Mrs May. Read Chequers. Think about the backstop, the payments, the attempts to obtain friction free trade, the grovelling, the overwhelming respect given to every red line of the EU while ours are dropped. The desperation of this government for a soft Brexit is palpable in everything they do and almost everything they say.
Fair enough, such a deal may well be in our interests, but your bizarre perception that this government has not sought to address Remainers concerns is truly laughable. They have done nothing else.
Those aren’t compromises with Remain voters. Those are compromises, forced from a position of weakness, with the EU. There is not a single concession that the government has willingly made which addresses the concerns of Remain voters. It has consistently aimed to take the most extreme interpretation of Leave that it can get away with.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Corbyn himself was soon accused of sabotaging the Remain Campaign. He refused to focus on - or even plan for - the referendum until after the local elections in May. His team cut pro-EU lines from his speeches (the phrase 'that's why I'm campaigning to remain in the EU' was reportedly a frequent victim of such editing) and he avoided events organised by Labour for Britain. Corbyn's office even signed off on a visit to Turkey to talk about the value of open borders, though opposition from within the party meant that this did not go ahead'.
The British General Election of 2017 Philip Cowley and Denis Kavanagh
Corbyn was making a different pro-EU case. But he was in favour of remaining. None of this changes the original point that prominent Remain politicians now virtually all back leaving the EU.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Corbyn himself was soon accused of sabotaging the Remain Campaign. He refused to focus on - or even plan for - the referendum until after the local elections in May. His team cut pro-EU lines from his speeches (the phrase 'that's why I'm campaigning to remain in the EU' was reportedly a frequent victim of such editing) and he avoided events organised by Labour for Britain. Corbyn's office even signed off on a visit to Turkey to talk about the value of open borders, though opposition from within the party meant that this did not go ahead'.
The British General Election of 2017 Philip Cowley and Denis Kavanagh
Corbyn was making a different pro-EU case. But he was in favour of remaining. None of this changes the original point that prominent Remain politicians now virtually all back leaving the EU.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Corbyn himself was soon accused of sabotaging the Remain Campaign. He refused to focus on - or even plan for - the referendum until after the local elections in May. His team cut pro-EU lines from his speeches (the phrase 'that's why I'm campaigning to remain in the EU' was reportedly a frequent victim of such editing) and he avoided events organised by Labour for Britain. Corbyn's office even signed off on a visit to Turkey to talk about the value of open borders, though opposition from within the party meant that this did not go ahead'.
The British General Election of 2017 Philip Cowley and Denis Kavanagh
Corbyn was making a different pro-EU case. But he was in favour of remaining. None of this changes the original point that prominent Remain politicians now virtually all back leaving the EU.
Some insist 'Leavers are in charge'......
Of course they are. The horse has bolted and the riders are clinging on for dear life.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Corbyn himself was soon accused of sabotaging the Remain Campaign. He refused to focus on - or even plan for - the referendum until after the local elections in May. His team cut pro-EU lines from his speeches (the phrase 'that's why I'm campaigning to remain in the EU' was reportedly a frequent victim of such editing) and he avoided events organised by Labour for Britain. Corbyn's office even signed off on a visit to Turkey to talk about the value of open borders, though opposition from within the party meant that this did not go ahead'.
The British General Election of 2017 Philip Cowley and Denis Kavanagh
Corbyn was making a different pro-EU case. But he was in favour of remaining. None of this changes the original point that prominent Remain politicians now virtually all back leaving the EU.
It was difficult to tell. If that was what passes for 'making a pro EU case' of any sort then he's not very good at what he does. I think we should expect more from party leaders.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
“The phenomenon of populism cannot be wished away and one of its causes was the sense of a political class that does not listen. It is a lesson EU leaders are still failing to learn.”
I agree with this. A soft, sensible, economically benign Brexit would be preferable to another poll. I am not sure why some Brexiteers keep pushing for more. Even Peter Hitchens agrees with Mike about this. SM-CU is clearly the way forward.
I think we're going to find the Vassal State uncongenial. Nevertheless it's the least bad option given where we are. And where we should never have got to.
I think we will move to quasi-vassal status - very soft Brexit (either that or a new vote). But then we will be in a cold war with the EU for a generation, as we fight for more freedom, and I think we will get it, in the end. Technology is on our side. National and supranational barriers will become increasingly irrelevant and large protectionist blocs will seem very 1990s.
In the short and medium term, the UK will try at the same time to undermine, ignore and co-opt the EU and will fail at all three as those actions cancel each other out. It will be very frustrating.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why do you say that? To begin with do you Roger isn’t in, or anywhere near, Nice?
“The phenomenon of populism cannot be wished away and one of its causes was the sense of a political class that does not listen. It is a lesson EU leaders are still failing to learn.”
I also liked:
This requires Remainers to accept that they lost but the second vote campaign shows them unready to do so.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Or another shit shop assistant who failed to make a sale,
The failure of Leavers to make any attempt to engage with Remain voters’ concerns is why Brexit is failing.
If only 'Remain Voters' had expressed concerns other than 'not leave'......
They have. Silly non-observation on your part.
A better alternative even at this stage would be for Remainers to work together to thwart the hardliners and deliver the most manageable deal in line with the 2016 vote. Customs union, single market, Theresa May’s Chequers plan — all are sub-optimal, but none is the worst outcome. This requires Remainers to accept that they lost but the second vote campaign shows them unready to do so.
If you think that the only concern that Remain voters have expressed is about not leaving, you simply haven’t been paying attention. There were an abundance of points where the government could have sought to address Remain voters’ concerns. Instead, it has consistently chosen to offend them. The end result is that Theresa May is now imploring them for support after spending two years using them as target practice. Unsurprisingly the public is unimpressed.
You think Remainers accept they have lost? How much energy has been devoted to 'improving Brexit' vs 're-running the referendum'?
Given that both get us called traitors we may as well aim for full on Brexit cancellation.
“The phenomenon of populism cannot be wished away and one of its causes was the sense of a political class that does not listen. It is a lesson EU leaders are still failing to learn.”
I also liked:
This requires Remainers to accept that they lost but the second vote campaign shows them unready to do so.
Surely the main point made is that "Instead of recognising the narrowness of their win and seeking to unify the nation they pursued the most hardline of Brexits."
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why do you say that? To begin with do you Roger isn’t in, or anywhere near, Nice?
The most ardent and extreme Remainers have a ready supply of “anecdotes” from European workers who used to work in Britain but now do so elsewhere in the EU due to the Brexit and the Racism etc.
I travel regularly around Europe and speak to and work with many Europeans, both as a friend and a stranger. None of them ever mention this to me. And none of them know I’m a Leaver.
There’s certainly a deterrent effect from not knowing what their future migration rights will be, post Brexit, but that’s it. The rest is fabricated hyperbole, with lashings of confirmation bias.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
It's an anecdote. It's certainly true that fewer people want to come to the UK post Brexit and this is showing up in the numbers actually coming and leaving. Many people think that's a good thing.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
It's an anecdote. It's certainly true that fewer people want to come to the UK post Brexit and this is showing up in the numbers actually coming. Many people think that's a good thing.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
It was difficult to tell. If that was what passes for 'making a pro EU case' of any sort then he's not very good at what he does. I think we should expect more from party leaders.
Hard to know if an alternative approach would have been more effective. Corbyn opted to be honest about his concerns about the EU, Cameron tried to sweep his concerns under the carpet.
Leaving in name only is pointless, and does not reflect the referendum result. If we're to be members of the single market and customs union we might as well be members of the EU. If we're to leave the EU, we must leave the customs union.
Asking for compromise then seeking to have the EU continue to set laws and trade deals here, even for businesses that are solely domestic traders is a Constitution/Lisbon trick. People weren't fooled by changing the title and reordering the paragraphs.
"Oh, yes, we've left. See? No membership card. Yes, I suppose the EU do set our regulations. And yes, I suppose they do dictate our trade terms. And yes, I suppose we don't have any say at all any more, but that's all your fault, you wicked Leavers."
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
I would bet the farm that he voted Leave. Every sinew of his political and economic values sees the EU as a neo liberal capitalist club that would prevent the state run socialism that he wishes the UK to return to.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
Shopworkers are exactly the kind of EU citizens that the government, the Labour party, the media and the general population have made clear are not welcome in the UK. It’s no great surprise that such people hear that message and leave.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Of all the curious things that the Referendum showed us, still the most charming is the honest faith of many Remainers that Jeremy Corbyn is one of them.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Of all the curious things that the Referendum showed us, still the most charming is the honest faith of many Remainers that Jeremy Corbyn is one of them.
Jeremy Corbyn is living proof of Bob Monkhouse's famous dictum that 'Sincerity is key. Fake that and you've got it made.'
Leaving in name only is pointless, and does not reflect the referendum result. If we're to be members of the single market and customs union we might as well be members of the EU. If we're to leave the EU, we must leave the customs union.
Asking for compromise then seeking to have the EU continue to set laws and trade deals here, even for businesses that are solely domestic traders is a Constitution/Lisbon trick. People weren't fooled by changing the title and reordering the paragraphs.
"Oh, yes, we've left. See? No membership card. Yes, I suppose the EU do set our regulations. And yes, I suppose they do dictate our trade terms. And yes, I suppose we don't have any say at all any more, but that's all your fault, you wicked Leavers."
Leaving without a deal doesn’t honour the referendum result either.
This makes the opposite point you think. If a minor politician in the house of Lords no one has heard of is a leading figure in referendum 2, then really most remainers have accepted the result.
Who would you say were the leading Remainers?
Well in the last campaign it was David Cameron, Corbyn, Clegg.
Corbyn?
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
Not this again. Yes Corbyn did campaign for Remain. Clegg is finished as a politician force. "Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
Of all the curious things that the Referendum showed us, still the most charming is the honest faith of many Remainers that Jeremy Corbyn is one of them.
Yep, it’s bizarre. But then many also believe he is in an implacable, uncompromising opponent of all forms of racism. Corbyn, Rees Mogg, McDonnell, Johnson and other charlatans merely prove that a lot of people actively want to be fooled.
I fear that membership of the EU is going to be an issue rather like the sovereignty of Parliament was in the 17th Century. I don’t think that we’ll actually have a Civil War.... at least I hope not......but I suspect it will be a running sore in our political life for many years to come.
Is this endless angst over the referendum result a London thing?
Just after the result, I remember a few on here asking why the Leavers were still fearful about the vocal Remainers. "You've won," they said. "Let it be." The reason was that some Remainers would never accept the result, they'd move heaven and earth to reverse the referendum result. "They cheated, it's Parliament who have to decide, you have to accept the Remainers' point of view, the public have changed their minds."
These self-appointed guardians of the future weren't used to losing. Spoilt seven-year-olds who'd had their toy taken away unexpectedly. "We want a second referendum, and we'll call it a peoples' referendum because the Leave voters aren't real people.
But even seven-year-olds calm down. Well, most do anyway. Only the real anti-democrats don't. I excuse the younger ones, even if they're the most excitable, but there's no excuse for the experienced politicians.
I've said all along that leavers would accept a trade association on its own, the old fashioned Common Market that used to be, but the EU will never do so. The four freedoms are indivisible - because they say so. FOM cannot be negotiated because that would destabilise the EU. Therein lies the problem and why Remainers can only resort to insults - the last resort of an angry seven-year-old.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
Shopworkers are exactly the kind of EU citizens that the government, the Labour party, the media and the general population have made clear are not welcome in the UK. It’s no great surprise that such people hear that message and leave.
Anyone already here has the right to stay and to apply for it for many years to come.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
I'm sure it would be wildly unfair to suggest that's because you react there in the same way you do here to anyone whose view differs from yours... but I have to confess the thought did occur to me.
I fear that membership of the EU is going to be an issue rather like the sovereignty of Parliament was in the 17th Century. I don’t think that we’ll actually have a Civil War.... at least I hope not......but I suspect it will be a running sore in our political life for many years to come.
I hope it doesn't take the equivalent number of years to resolve. Parliamentary sovereignty was finally decided against the Sovereign in 1834-35 and against the Peerage in 1911 (ironically, in the latter case with the help of the Sovereign). We haven't got 300 years to bugger about with the likes of Juncker.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is because of the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
Wow. Another hardcore Remainer has countless anecdotes of how beastly Brexit is to the Europeans.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
I'm sure it would be wildly unfair to suggest that's because you react there in the same way you do here to anyone whose view differs from yours... but I have to confess the thought did occur to me.
Nope. I’m largely immune to confirmation bias and way more objective than you’ll ever be.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
Wow. Another hardcore Remainer has countless anecdotes of how beastly Brexit is to the Europeans.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
Whereas a diehard Leaver like you has never heard any EU citizen say they now feel less welcome in the UK :-D
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
Shopworkers are exactly the kind of EU citizens that the government, the Labour party, the media and the general population have made clear are not welcome in the UK. It’s no great surprise that such people hear that message and leave.
Anyone already here has the right to stay and to apply for it for many years to come.
This was one of the first things we negotiated.
Yes, they can stay here in the knowledge that they are living among people who think they take jobs from locals, suppress wages, drive up rents, put undue strain on public services and come from countries that are little more than chips off the Soviet and Nazi blocks! Why on earth anyone should feel uncomfortable in such an environment is beyond me!!
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
I'm sure it would be wildly unfair to suggest that's because you react there in the same way you do here to anyone whose view differs from yours... but I have to confess the thought did occur to me.
Nope. I’m largely immune to confirmation bias and way more objective than you’ll ever be.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
Wow. Another hardcore Remainer has countless anecdotes of how beastly Brexit is to the Europeans.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
It is not just a matter of Visas. Currently EU and EEA nationals have equal recognition of professional qualifications. It took about a month for her to get GMC registration of her specialist qualifications, non EU take about a year. As most come intending just a year or two, even if they wind up staying longer, bureaucracy matters. France and Germany are both short of doctors, and much less hassle. Depreciation of Sterling and freezing of salaries here is a further factor.
Still, if it increases rates of pay for sturdy British yeoman doctors like myself, that is the point of Brexit.
That is what irritates the residual Remainers. We didn't vote to leave as long as A,B, and C are guaranteed. The particular variety of Leave is up for negotiation with the EU. If they prove truculent and long-winded (as is typical) that doesn't negate the vote. .
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
Shopworkers are exactly the kind of EU citizens that the government, the Labour party, the media and the general population have made clear are not welcome in the UK. It’s no great surprise that such people hear that message and leave.
Anyone already here has the right to stay and to apply for it for many years to come.
This was one of the first things we negotiated.
Yes, they can stay here in the knowledge that they are living among people who think they take jobs from locals, suppress wages, drive up rents, put undue strain on public services and come from countries that are little more than chips off the Soviet and Nazi blocks! Why on earth anyone should feel uncomfortable in such an environment is beyond me!!
Is this endless angst over the referendum result a London thing?
Just after the result, I remember a few on here asking why the Leavers were still fearful about the vocal Remainers. "You've won," they said. "Let it be." The reason was that some Remainers would never accept the result, they'd move heaven and earth to reverse the referendum result. "They cheated, it's Parliament who have to decide, you have to accept the Remainers' point of view, the public have changed their minds."
These self-appointed guardians of the future weren't used to losing. Spoilt seven-year-olds who'd had their toy taken away unexpectedly. "We want a second referendum, and we'll call it a peoples' referendum because the Leave voters aren't real people.
But even seven-year-olds calm down. Well, most do anyway. Only the real anti-democrats don't. I excuse the younger ones, even if they're the most excitable, but there's no excuse for the experienced politicians.
I've said all along that leavers would accept a trade association on its own, the old fashioned Common Market that used to be, but the EU will never do so. The four freedoms are indivisible - because they say so. FOM cannot be negotiated because that would destabilise the EU. Therein lies the problem and why Remainers can only resort to insults - the last resort of an angry seven-year-old.
The only two fervent Remain-at-any-cost-sod-democracy sorts I know are both middle-aged blokes. All my peers have moved on....
I agree that Leavers have been reckless about embedding Brexit and have done their level best to ensure that Brexit will be controversial and a dividing line for years.
I’m uncertain what Remainers should do. Militantly refusing to accept complicity in a national catastrophe seems reasonable, even if it leads to a worse outcome in the short term.
Alastair - life moves on.
You’d be well advised to accept whatever happens when it happens. Raging at the storm doesn’t achieve anything
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
Wow. Another hardcore Remainer has countless anecdotes of how beastly Brexit is to the Europeans.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
So I guess there is no question of us topping soft power league tables, then?
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
Wow. Another hardcore Remainer has countless anecdotes of how beastly Brexit is to the Europeans.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
One can lead a horse to water. Etc Javid might SAY that potential NHS staff are welcome. It’s how they view the situation that matters.
I fear that membership of the EU is going to be an issue rather like the sovereignty of Parliament was in the 17th Century. I don’t think that we’ll actually have a Civil War.... at least I hope not......but I suspect it will be a running sore in our political life for many years to come.
Maybe, but maybe not. Membership of the EU was a sore from the moment that body was set up in 1993 and rammed through Parliament without a referendum. But as we'd probably have to join the Euro and maybe Schengen if we wanted to rejoin, and would lose Margaret Thatcher's rebate, it is equally possible that all but the most hardcore remainers would move on.
Also I understand that most voters in Norway and Switzerland view their status as settled.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
Wow. Another hardcore Remainer has countless anecdotes of how beastly Brexit is to the Europeans.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
So I guess there is no question of us topping soft power league tables, then?
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
It is not just a matter of Visas. Currently EU and EEA nationals have equal recognition of professional qualifications. It took about a month for her to get GMC registration of her specialist qualifications, non EU take about a year. As most come intending just a year or two, even if they wind up staying longer, bureaucracy matters. France and Germany are both short of doctors, and much less hassle. Depreciation of Sterling and freezing of salaries here is a further factor.
Still, if it increases rates of pay for sturdy British yeoman doctors like myself, that is the point of Brexit.
If Britain was no longer seen as welcoming then given how many non-Britons are in the country we would see net emigration.
That's not happening. Instead we still at a statistically significant rate have net immigration at its highest ever levels.
I fear that membership of the EU is going to be an issue rather like the sovereignty of Parliament was in the 17th Century. I don’t think that we’ll actually have a Civil War.... at least I hope not......but I suspect it will be a running sore in our political life for many years to come.
Maybe, but maybe not. Membership of the EU was a sore from the moment that body was set up in 1993 and rammed through Parliament without a referendum. But as we'd probably have to join the Euro and maybe Schengen if we wanted to rejoin, and would lose Margaret Thatcher's rebate, it is equally possible that all but the most hardcore remainers would move on.
Also I understand that most voters in Norway and Switzerland view their status as settled.
I gather ... IIRC...... that polls show Norway has a small anti EU majority. Don’t know about Switzerland.
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
It is not just a matter of Visas. Currently EU and EEA nationals have equal recognition of professional qualifications. It took about a month for her to get GMC registration of her specialist qualifications, non EU take about a year. As most come intending just a year or two, even if they wind up staying longer, bureaucracy matters. France and Germany are both short of doctors, and much less hassle. Depreciation of Sterling and freezing of salaries here is a further factor.
Still, if it increases rates of pay for sturdy British yeoman doctors like myself, that is the point of Brexit.
If Britain was no longer seen as welcoming then given how many non-Britons are in the country we would see net emigration.
That's not happening. Instead we still at a statistically significant rate have net immigration at its highest ever levels.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly something I’ve heard a fair bit of from people at work. Your experience may be different, but that doesn’t meannit isn’t happening.
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
Shopworkers are exactly the kind of EU citizens that the government, the Labour party, the media and the general population have made clear are not welcome in the UK. It’s no great surprise that such people hear that message and leave.
Anyone already here has the right to stay and to apply for it for many years to come.
This was one of the first things we negotiated.
Yes, they can stay here in the knowledge that they are living among people who think they take jobs from locals, suppress wages, drive up rents, put undue strain on public services and come from countries that are little more than chips off the Soviet and Nazi blocks! Why on earth anyone should feel uncomfortable in such an environment is beyond me!!
Ludicrous hyperbole.
It’s the very clear message EU citizens in the UK are given.
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
It is not just a matter of Visas. Currently EU and EEA nationals have equal recognition of professional qualifications. It took about a month for her to get GMC registration of her specialist qualifications, non EU take about a year. As most come intending just a year or two, even if they wind up staying longer, bureaucracy matters. France and Germany are both short of doctors, and much less hassle. Depreciation of Sterling and freezing of salaries here is a further factor.
Still, if it increases rates of pay for sturdy British yeoman doctors like myself, that is the point of Brexit.
If Britain was no longer seen as welcoming then given how many non-Britons are in the country we would see net emigration.
That's not happening. Instead we still at a statistically significant rate have net immigration at its highest ever levels.
The difference is that non EU migration is overwhelmingly from the developing world in africa and the subcontinent. The step up economically for such migrants overcomes the other doubts.
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
It is not just a matter of Visas. Currently EU and EEA nationals have equal recognition of professional qualifications. It took about a month for her to get GMC registration of her specialist qualifications, non EU take about a year. As most come intending just a year or two, even if they wind up staying longer, bureaucracy matters. France and Germany are both short of doctors, and much less hassle. Depreciation of Sterling and freezing of salaries here is a further factor.
Still, if it increases rates of pay for sturdy British yeoman doctors like myself, that is the point of Brexit.
If Britain was no longer seen as welcoming then given how many non-Britons are in the country we would see net emigration.
That's not happening. Instead we still at a statistically significant rate have net immigration at its highest ever levels.
Not from the EU, though.
Yes from the EU. We still have net immigration not emigration. Changes in the most recent statistics were not statistically significant.
It's many years since I worked briefly in the NHS, but I remember the locals (in London, as it happens) being very welcoming to any sort of health worker at their local hospital. No matter what colour or ethnic extraction.
I went into a clothes shop in Nice yesterday. For those unfamiliar with French shops the assistants are as slow and as unhelpful as you'll find anywhere.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
Another made up story.
Why on Earth would he make that up? You might not like the fact that a lot of Europeans feel less unwelcome in the UK after the referendum, but that doesn’t make it untrue. It’s certainly
I’ve heard none of it from any people at work.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I hear plenty of it from my EU colleagues. We have only a single one of our Spanish nurses left, though she seems cheerful enough. Our new Greek recruit simply doesn't believe Brexit will happen, she has experienced enough Greek politics to not believe politicians rhetoric. Our Italian locum has been offered a permanent post, but is in two minds. The outlook in Italy is pretty bleak too. Our only recent recruit from outside the EU is Israeli, and he came on an EU passport via grandparents.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
Wow. Another hardcore Remainer has countless anecdotes of how beastly Brexit is to the Europeans.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
Whereas a diehard Leaver like you has never heard any EU citizen say they now feel less welcome in the UK :-D
Correct. And I am married to an EU national and know several in her social circle and mine.
I am way more exposed to their views than the vast majority on here.
Just reporting from the front line. Britain is no longer seen as an opening and welcoming place for the medium term. No one goes where they are not wanted, if they have any choice.
It is not just a matter of Visas. Currently EU and EEA nationals have equal recognition of professional qualifications. It took about a month for her to get GMC registration of her specialist qualifications, non EU take about a year. As most come intending just a year or two, even if they wind up staying longer, bureaucracy matters. France and Germany are both short of doctors, and much less hassle. Depreciation of Sterling and freezing of salaries here is a further factor.
Still, if it increases rates of pay for sturdy British yeoman doctors like myself, that is the point of Brexit.
If Britain was no longer seen as welcoming then given how many non-Britons are in the country we would see net emigration.
That's not happening. Instead we still at a statistically significant rate have net immigration at its highest ever levels.
The difference is that non EU migration is overwhelmingly from the developing world in africa and the subcontinent. The step up economically for such migrants overcomes the other doubts.
Comments
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html
Time to say Goodnight...
Goodnight from me......
Anyhow, imagine Article 50 wasn't a thing. Any change of status would require a new treaty, with the unanimous agreement of all the member states. Anyone could veto it, either to hold up Brexit or to try to extract concessions. The Irish and the Danes might well have referendums about it. The British really would be head-butting the door until they got brain damage.
If we didn't have Article 50 negotiations would go on forever. Heck, if you want to see what life without Article 50 is like, simply go EEA, and then start discussions about departing from the EU.
https://twitter.com/andrew_adonis/status/1049329773238018049?s=21
Both Labour and the Tories are trying unite their parties around getting the best Brexit they can.
Those calling for a second vote are fringe figures in their parties.
Now it's Theresa May, Javid, Hunt, Corbyn, Thornberry, McDonnell, Starmer etc.
All backed remain, and all are now committed to leaving (with the possible exception of Starmer).
"I may have been there, but I did not participate", as he said of another occasion......
Here's a recent tweet from Clegg, focussing on getting the best possible Brexit deal and not rerunning the referendum:
https://twitter.com/nick_clegg/status/1046507108848545797
"Ahead of the vote, Corbyn appeared on national television for a one-on-one interview, after having made 123 public appearances, including 60 in 22 days, which took place all over the country, and often in areas with strong Labour support. Eagle praised him at the time for, “pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25-year-old tired”."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/07/it-s-neither-labour-nor-uk-s-interests-blame-jeremy-corbyn-brexit?amp
The British General Election of 2017
Philip Cowley and Denis Kavanagh
None of this changes the original point that prominent Remain politicians now virtually all back leaving the EU.
An engaging black guy came over to me and asked (in French) if he could help. His English was perfect so we soon started speaking in English.
He was Portuguese but he'd been working in Manchester for the last 8 years. He said he loved it there but things changed after the Brexit vote and he and his partner felt they had to move. So he came to France and turned a language he'd learned at school into one he could speak fluently and he was away.
A tiny little story of no particular signifcance other than it left me pissed off. We undervalue too many things and people that make the UK what it is, And for why? To appease some Little Englanders who have an opinon of their own worth that is in no way borne out by reality.
https://news.sky.com/story/what-the-hs2-stations-in-birmingham-and-solihull-could-look-like-11521681
“The phenomenon of populism cannot be wished away and one of its causes was the sense of a political class that does not listen. It is a lesson EU leaders are still failing to learn.”
The people have spoken, the b@stards.....
This requires Remainers to accept that they lost but the second vote campaign shows them unready to do so.
I travel regularly around Europe and speak to and work with many Europeans, both as a friend and a stranger. None of them ever mention this to me. And none of them know I’m a Leaver.
There’s certainly a deterrent effect from not knowing what their future migration rights will be, post Brexit, but that’s it. The rest is fabricated hyperbole, with lashings of confirmation bias.
He’d make it up because he’s Roger, and makes emotive stuff up - and delusional predictions - all the time.
I suspect Clegg would have asked for EU citizens to also be enfranchised, and I suspect Cameron would have agreed.
Corbyn opted to be honest about his concerns about the EU, Cameron tried to sweep his concerns under the carpet.
Leaving in name only is pointless, and does not reflect the referendum result. If we're to be members of the single market and customs union we might as well be members of the EU. If we're to leave the EU, we must leave the customs union.
Asking for compromise then seeking to have the EU continue to set laws and trade deals here, even for businesses that are solely domestic traders is a Constitution/Lisbon trick. People weren't fooled by changing the title and reordering the paragraphs.
"Oh, yes, we've left. See? No membership card. Yes, I suppose the EU do set our regulations. And yes, I suppose they do dictate our trade terms. And yes, I suppose we don't have any say at all any more, but that's all your fault, you wicked Leavers."
And shafting Clegg and LD’s was only the first evidence of that!
Just after the result, I remember a few on here asking why the Leavers were still fearful about the vocal Remainers. "You've won," they said. "Let it be." The reason was that some Remainers would never accept the result, they'd move heaven and earth to reverse the referendum result. "They cheated, it's Parliament who have to decide, you have to accept the Remainers' point of view, the public have changed their minds."
These self-appointed guardians of the future weren't used to losing. Spoilt seven-year-olds who'd had their toy taken away unexpectedly. "We want a second referendum, and we'll call it a peoples' referendum because the Leave voters aren't real people.
But even seven-year-olds calm down. Well, most do anyway. Only the real anti-democrats don't. I excuse the younger ones, even if they're the most excitable, but there's no excuse for the experienced politicians.
I've said all along that leavers would accept a trade association on its own, the old fashioned Common Market that used to be, but the EU will never do so. The four freedoms are indivisible - because they say so. FOM cannot be negotiated because that would destabilise the EU. Therein lies the problem and why Remainers can only resort to insults - the last resort of an angry seven-year-old.
This was one of the first things we negotiated.
Have a good morning.
I’m just wanting to ensure the promises of Leave are honoured.
Though this all should be celebrated as a feature rather than a bug in Brexitland.
It seems that the non existence of faeries is because of the lack of faith of those who never believed in them.
And this only weeks after Javid excluded NHS workers from the migration cap, meaning anyone with the right skills can now come worldwide.
Had a meeting last night with someone close to our near perfect (c. @Richard_Nabavi ) former chancellor
He believes that a deal will be done
And that, after a lot of huffing and puffing, bitching and moaning, the Commons will vote for it.
In fact he said that the Commons, being spineless, would vote for any deal
It is not just a matter of Visas. Currently EU and EEA nationals have equal recognition of professional qualifications. It took about a month for her to get GMC registration of her specialist qualifications, non EU take about a year. As most come intending just a year or two, even if they wind up staying longer, bureaucracy matters. France and Germany are both short of doctors, and much less hassle. Depreciation of Sterling and freezing of salaries here is a further factor.
Still, if it increases rates of pay for sturdy British yeoman doctors like myself, that is the point of Brexit.
We voted to leave.
That is what irritates the residual Remainers. We didn't vote to leave as long as A,B, and C are guaranteed. The particular variety of Leave is up for negotiation with the EU. If they prove truculent and long-winded (as is typical) that doesn't negate the vote. .
You’d be well advised to accept whatever happens when it happens. Raging at the storm doesn’t achieve anything
Javid might SAY that potential NHS staff are welcome. It’s how they view the situation that matters.
Also I understand that most voters in Norway and Switzerland view their status as settled.
That's not happening. Instead we still at a statistically significant rate have net immigration at its highest ever levels.
It's many years since I worked briefly in the NHS, but I remember the locals (in London, as it happens) being very welcoming to any sort of health worker at their local hospital. No matter what colour or ethnic extraction.
If times have changed, it is indeed a pity.
I am way more exposed to their views than the vast majority on here.