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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The real weakness of the threats of PM Corbyn is that many LAB

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  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    Anorak said:

    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Around 30 Labour MPs are set to back May's deal according to reports this morning.

    If we end up with No Deal in November I think a second EU referendum is more likely than not before the Brexit date of the end of March 2019 and Remain would likely win it

    Voting down the deal would put the country on very dangerous and uncertain ground now.

    anything could happen from No-Deal to No Brexit at all, and anyone which says they know what would happen is either an idiot or lying.
    No Deal of course being the most obvious route to No Brexit at all
    Pretty much. There's no way parliment, or a signifigant majorty of MPs on both sides which would accept no deal.

    Unless we end up there by default as time runs out, which is a possibility.
    I think that if No-Deal becomes imminent - say we reach February with the current paralysis continuing - then realpolitik will kick in and Brexit will be put on "Hold". No Deal has too many downsides for both us and the EU.
    In theory yes. But it only takes 'something' or someone to say 'Nope, March it is, you're out' and we crash out, either on their side, or on ours. Who knows who the PM would be then or what they would say or do, let alone the EU27.

    Even if it's a 10/20/30% chance, it's a risk.
    Everything is a risk ;)

    This place is PoliticalBetting, not politicalcertainty.com :D
    Shh. You'll upset HYUFD.
    Current polling indicates that HYFUD will not get upset.
    Not true. If Tony Blair had implemented transition controls in 2004 then HYUFD would not have been upset and we would not be where we are now.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    TOPPING said:

    Anorak said:

    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Around 30 Labour MPs are set to back May's deal according to reports this morning.

    If we end up with No Deal in November I think a second EU referendum is more likely than not before the Brexit date of the end of March 2019 and Remain would likely win it

    Voting down the deal would put the country on very dangerous and uncertain ground now.

    anything could happen from No-Deal to No Brexit at all, and anyone which says they know what would happen is either an idiot or lying.
    No Deal of course being the most obvious route to No Brexit at all
    Pretty much. There's no way parliment, or a signifigant majorty of MPs on both sides which would accept no deal.

    Unless we end up there by default as time runs out, which is a possibility.
    I think that if No-Deal becomes imminent - say we reach February with the current paralysis continuing - then realpolitik will kick in and Brexit will be put on "Hold". No Deal has too many downsides for both us and the EU.
    In theory yes. But it only takes 'something' or someone to say 'Nope, March it is, you're out' and we crash out, either on their side, or on ours. Who knows who the PM would be then or what they would say or do, let alone the EU27.

    Even if it's a 10/20/30% chance, it's a risk.
    Everything is a risk ;)

    This place is PoliticalBetting, not politicalcertainty.com :D
    Shh. You'll upset HYUFD.
    Current polling indicates that HYFUD will not get upset.
    Not true. If Tony Blair had implemented transition controls in 2004 then HYUFD would not have been upset and we would not be where we are now.
    Ok, you win.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Around 30 Labour MPs are set to back May's deal according to reports this morning.

    If we end up with No Deal in November I think a second EU referendum is more likely than not before the Brexit date of the end of March 2019 and Remain would likely win it

    Voting down the deal would put the country on very dangerous and uncertain ground now.

    anything could happen from No-Deal to No Brexit at all, and anyone which says they know what would happen is either an idiot or lying.
    No Deal of course being the most obvious route to No Brexit at all
    Pretty much. There's no way parliment, or a signifigant majorty of MPs on both sides which would accept no deal.

    Unless we end up there by default as time runs out, which is a possibility.
    I think that if No-Deal becomes imminent - say we reach February with the current paralysis continuing - then realpolitik will kick in and Brexit will be put on "Hold". No Deal has too many downsides for both us and the EU.
    The real reason that the establishment are desperate to avoid No Deal is because it will be a success. If the World does not end after all (and apart from a few hairy weeks it will be fine), there will be no way that the UK will ever rejoin or even realign with the EU, and plenty of EU members will start thinking that they can do the same and leave.

    The risk in No Deal is not the economic risk, it is the political fallout. It calls the pro-EU bluff once and for all and they are terrified that their endless fear campaigns will be exposed for the utter nonense that it has always been.

    Whatever the dreams of remainers, if May’s deal is defeated it will be no deal. The HOC is not going to be able to do anything about it.
    A no deal without any kind of good will or grandfathering process for all the international agreements and treaties that we are party to due to our membership of the EU would be deeply traumatic.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Anorak said:

    TOPPING said:

    Anorak said:

    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Around 30 Labour MPs are set to back May's deal according to reports this morning.

    If we end up with No Deal in November I think a second EU referendum is more likely than not before the Brexit date of the end of March 2019 and Remain would likely win it

    Voting down the deal would put the country on very dangerous and uncertain ground now.

    anything could happen from No-Deal to No Brexit at all, and anyone which says they know what would happen is either an idiot or lying.
    No Deal of course being the most obvious route to No Brexit at all
    Pretty much. There's no way parliment, or a signifigant majorty of MPs on both sides which would accept no deal.

    Unless we end up there by default as time runs out, which is a possibility.
    I think that if No-Deal becomes imminent - say we reach February with the current paralysis continuing - then realpolitik will kick in and Brexit will be put on "Hold". No Deal has too many downsides for both us and the EU.
    In theory yes. But it only takes 'something' or someone to say 'Nope, March it is, you're out' and we crash out, either on their side, or on ours. Who knows who the PM would be then or what they would say or do, let alone the EU27.

    Even if it's a 10/20/30% chance, it's a risk.
    Everything is a risk ;)

    This place is PoliticalBetting, not politicalcertainty.com :D
    Shh. You'll upset HYUFD.
    Current polling indicates that HYFUD will not get upset.
    Not true. If Tony Blair had implemented transition controls in 2004 then HYUFD would not have been upset and we would not be where we are now.
    Ok, you win.
    PB proves that the universe is deterministic. However, we still haven't traced the problem back to its root cause: Fatcha. She obviously did *something* that has inevitably led to Brexit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited October 2018
    Anorak said:

    John_M said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I’d sooner eat a pizza with pineapple on it.
    They serve nothing else in Frankfurt......
    I’ve been to Frankfurt several times this year. I’ve been satisfied with the food.
    It was only after spending several months working in Munich that I realised that, yes, it is possible to tire of pig+cabbage.
    TSE, as he frequently tells us, is a good muslim boy. Cabbage+cabbage it is.
    Apart from my regular gambling, occasional whoring, and only praying twice a year instead of five times a day I’m a very good Muslim boy.

    Oh and my love of material things too.
  • I

    Anorak said:

    If the City types who voted Remain still get to move to Europe for work, while the people who work locally and voted Leave don't... isn't that a nice outcome?

    No. Those Leave voters are going to miss out on my tax revenues.

    They won’t be happy when the government has to stop their working tax credits.
    "working"
    It’ll make them poorer.

    They’ll moan.

    Chavland places like Essex will riot and cause tens of pounds worth of damage.
    I very much doubt it.

    As I said, the type of people who are in favour of FoM still pretty much have it. The type that aren't, don't... and aren't bothered. Everyone's a winner
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Jonathan said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Around 30 Labour MPs are set to back May's deal according to reports this morning.

    If we end up with No Deal in November I think a second EU referendum is more likely than not before the Brexit date of the end of March 2019 and Remain would likely win it

    Voting down the deal would put the country on very dangerous and uncertain ground now.

    anything could happen from No-Deal to No Brexit at all, and anyone which says they know what would happen is either an idiot or lying.
    No Deal of course being the most obvious route to No Brexit at all
    Pretty much. There's no way parliment, or a signifigant majorty of MPs on both sides which would accept no deal.

    Unless we end up there by default as time runs out, which is a possibility.
    I think that if No-Deal becomes imminent - say we reach February with the current paralysis continuing - then realpolitik will kick in and Brexit will be put on "Hold". No Deal has too many downsides for both us and the EU.
    I am not sure that’s true. No deal has been on the table for a while.
    AT the moment there is a prospect that a deal will be reached. If we get to the New Year with nothing agreed, it will be DefCon 1 in certain Committee Rooms both here and in Brussels (not to mention numerous businesses)
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535
    edited October 2018
    matt said:

    It doesn't, really. It will be entirely to do with Brexit. I'm not going to post my CV to support this though so we're back to anonymous people on the internet make differing claims

    There's no political leverage for Airbus operations in the UK anymore. So all other things being equal the UK would lose future investment to France and Germany. Obviously you don't just close working plant, and sure Brexit might have some impact, but the biggest change is the fact that there's no UK government or UK business stake in Airbus. With the MOD increasingly leaning towards choosing US kit there's even less reason to be based here.

    Will Brexit get the blame? For sure, but politics and diplomacy has always played a large part in aerospace and defence manufacturing, and you can be damn sure that the French and German goverments will weigh in when Airbus makes future investment choices.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    notme said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Around 30 Labour MPs are set to back May's deal according to reports this morning.

    If we end up with No Deal in November I think a second EU referendum is more likely than not before the Brexit date of the end of March 2019 and Remain would likely win it

    Voting down the deal would put the country on very dangerous and uncertain ground now.

    anything could happen from No-Deal to No Brexit at all, and anyone which says they know what would happen is either an idiot or lying.
    No Deal of course being the most obvious route to No Brexit at all
    Pretty much. There's no way parliment, or a signifigant majorty of MPs on both sides which would accept no deal.

    Unless we end up there by default as time runs out, which is a possibility.
    I think that if No-Deal becomes imminent - say we reach February with the current paralysis continuing - then realpolitik will kick in and Brexit will be put on "Hold". No Deal has too many downsides for both us and the EU.
    The real reason that the establishment are desperate to avoid No Deal is because it will be a success. If the World does not end after all (and apart from a few hairy weeks it will be fine), there will be no way that the UK will ever rejoin or even realign with the EU, and plenty of EU members will start thinking that they can do the same and leave.

    The risk in No Deal is not the economic risk, it is the political fallout. It calls the pro-EU bluff once and for all and they are terrified that their endless fear campaigns will be exposed for the utter nonense that it has always been.

    Whatever the dreams of remainers, if May’s deal is defeated it will be no deal. The HOC is not going to be able to do anything about it.
    A no deal without any kind of good will or grandfathering process for all the international agreements and treaties that we are party to due to our membership of the EU would be deeply traumatic.
    Not in Australia ..... ;)
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited October 2018

    I

    Anorak said:

    If the City types who voted Remain still get to move to Europe for work, while the people who work locally and voted Leave don't... isn't that a nice outcome?

    No. Those Leave voters are going to miss out on my tax revenues.

    They won’t be happy when the government has to stop their working tax credits.
    "working"
    It’ll make them poorer.

    They’ll moan.

    Chavland places like Essex will riot and cause tens of pounds worth of damage.
    I very much doubt it.

    As I said, the type of people who are in favour of FoM still pretty much have it. The type that aren't, don't... and aren't bothered. Everyone's a winner
    I wonder how many C2DEs are mobile in the international sense. ONS data shows UK expats immigrants are still mostly concentrated in the Anglosphere, but doesn't break those figures down beyond kids/adults/retirees.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870
    Dura_Ace said:

    The Bangkok visit on Invincible remains the gold standard. The aftermath involved the Captain and some briefcase wanker from the British embassy attending a meeting with Thai police where no coffee was served. I had a note that read "stole a tuk-tuk" permanently affixed to my file which is the only reason I never became 1st Sea Lord.

    That is the most SeanT comment never to have been posted by SeanT.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    John_M said:

    I

    Anorak said:

    If the City types who voted Remain still get to move to Europe for work, while the people who work locally and voted Leave don't... isn't that a nice outcome?

    No. Those Leave voters are going to miss out on my tax revenues.

    They won’t be happy when the government has to stop their working tax credits.
    "working"
    It’ll make them poorer.

    They’ll moan.

    Chavland places like Essex will riot and cause tens of pounds worth of damage.
    I very much doubt it.

    As I said, the type of people who are in favour of FoM still pretty much have it. The type that aren't, don't... and aren't bothered. Everyone's a winner
    I wonder how many C2DEs are mobile in the international sense. ONS data shows UK expats immigrants are still mostly concentrated in the Anglosphere, but doesn't break those figures down beyond kids/adults/retirees.
    Does a week each year all-inclusive in Magaluf count?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I’d sooner eat a pizza with pineapple on it.
    They serve nothing else in Frankfurt......
    I’ve been to Frankfurt several times this year. I’ve been satisfied with the food.
    I don't advise acting on gourmet advice from someone from Sheffield

  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Those auditors might have some questions to answer...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,921
    TOPPING said:

    Anorak said:

    John_M said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Around 30 Labour MPs are set to back May's deal according to reports this morning.

    If we end up with No Deal in November I think a second EU referendum is more likely than not before the Brexit date of the end of March 2019 and Remain would likely win it

    Voting down the deal would put the country on very dangerous and uncertain ground now.

    anything could happen from No-Deal to No Brexit at all, and anyone which says they know what would happen is either an idiot or lying.
    No Deal of course being the most obvious route to No Brexit at all
    Pretty much. There's no way parliment, or a signifigant majorty of MPs on both sides which would accept no deal.

    Unless we end up there by default as time runs out, which is a possibility.
    I think that if No-Deal becomes imminent - say we reach February with the current paralysis continuing - then realpolitik will kick in and Brexit will be put on "Hold". No Deal has too many downsides for both us and the EU.
    In theory yes. But it only takes 'something' or someone to say 'Nope, March it is, you're out' and we crash out, either on their side, or on ours. Who knows who the PM would be then or what they would say or do, let alone the EU27.

    Even if it's a 10/20/30% chance, it's a risk.
    Everything is a risk ;)

    This place is PoliticalBetting, not politicalcertainty.com :D
    Shh. You'll upset HYUFD.
    Current polling indicates that HYFUD will not get upset.
    Not true. If Tony Blair had implemented transition controls in 2004 then HYUFD would not have been upset and we would not be where we are now.
    Brilliant

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    There are no Cineworld Unlimited outlets though
  • Those auditors might have some questions to answer...
    Is this as bad as Arthur Anderson and Enron?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    glw said:

    matt said:

    It doesn't, really. It will be entirely to do with Brexit. I'm not going to post my CV to support this though so we're back to anonymous people on the internet make differing claims

    There's no political leverage for Airbus operations in the UK anymore.
    14,000 direct jobs, and probably 5 times that number supported in the supply and services base, makes for a great deal of leverage.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,535

    Those auditors might have some questions to answer...
    The CMA is planning an investigation of the big four, and "defective audits" was one of the things they are most concerned about.
  • John_M said:

    I

    Anorak said:

    If the City types who voted Remain still get to move to Europe for work, while the people who work locally and voted Leave don't... isn't that a nice outcome?

    No. Those Leave voters are going to miss out on my tax revenues.

    They won’t be happy when the government has to stop their working tax credits.
    "working"
    It’ll make them poorer.

    They’ll moan.

    Chavland places like Essex will riot and cause tens of pounds worth of damage.
    I very much doubt it.

    As I said, the type of people who are in favour of FoM still pretty much have it. The type that aren't, don't... and aren't bothered. Everyone's a winner
    I wonder how many C2DEs are mobile in the international sense. ONS data shows UK expats immigrants are still mostly concentrated in the Anglosphere, but doesn't break those figures down beyond kids/adults/retirees.
    I don't know.

    If we accept the premise that the Leave vote was inspired by hatred of foreigners and a dislike of the London-centric focus, while Remainers are open minded internationalists, then City jobs going abroad and fewer EU nationals coming to the UK is just fine, who's moaning?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    Sean_F said:

    O/T, Cruz is now up 9% in the latest Quinnipiac poll. It's very hard to see a path now, by which the Democrats can take the Senate.

    And Heitkamp’s numbers looking pretty awful in ND, too. The attempt effectively to disenfranchise around 6% of the population that one might assume would favour her can’t help much, either.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    "Better 50,000 thousand people disenfranchised than 1 instance of in person voter fraud." I think that's how the slogan goes
  • Anorak said:
    The obvious answer to the Brexit issue has always been bloody obvious.

    Join EFTA. Stray in the EEA. Do a customs deal.

    We impose Freedom of Movement Restrictions - a "New" "Win" despite being what we already could have done
    We retain Free Trade having negotiated (as part of the EU) the best deals possible
    We regain independence on Agriculture and Fishing, which we use to catapult a self-sustainability model for food

    Just get on and do the thing. If that means May gets torn apart by Tory loons who then get booted out all the better.
  • Has Caparo v Dickman been superseded ?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Those auditors might have some questions to answer...
    Is this as bad as Arthur Anderson and Enron?
    Enron was a touch larger.

    But we have to see the contrivance necessary to paint the false picture to work out the failure level of the Auditor.

    I genuinely think that the suggestion in the Economist a few years ago to stop audits being a legal requirement would improve things.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,789

    Anorak said:
    The obvious answer to the Brexit issue has always been bloody obvious.

    Join EFTA. Stray in the EEA. Do a customs deal.

    We impose Freedom of Movement Restrictions - a "New" "Win" despite being what we already could have done
    We retain Free Trade having negotiated (as part of the EU) the best deals possible
    We regain independence on Agriculture and Fishing, which we use to catapult a self-sustainability model for food

    Just get on and do the thing. If that means May gets torn apart by Tory loons who then get booted out all the better.
    This is still cakeist because the "customs deal" and the "independence on agriculture" bring us straight back to the issues that the DUP is exploding over.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    glw said:

    Those auditors might have some questions to answer...
    The CMA is planning an investigation of the big four, and "defective audits" was one of the things they are most concerned about.
    Speaking as an auditor (not on the same scale at all as the big four) it's just too f**king complicated for anyone to really understand, and for the Big guys, they focus on the assurance and consulting which makes them the money, not the audit, which is almost a loss-leader for them.
  • Has Caparo v Dickman been superseded ?

    On what point?
  • Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    O/T, Cruz is now up 9% in the latest Quinnipiac poll. It's very hard to see a path now, by which the Democrats can take the Senate.

    And Heitkamp’s numbers looking pretty awful in ND, too. The attempt effectively to disenfranchise around 6% of the population that one might assume would favour her can’t help much, either.
    Several polls are showing the Rep incumbent slightly up in Nevada. Could be looking at Rep gains in the Senate (but losses in the house)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I’d sooner eat a pizza with pineapple on it.

    There is a cafe in Chester that serves cheese and ham toasties. With Pineapple...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited October 2018

    Has Caparo v Dickman been superseded ?

    On what point?
    That audit reports are solely for the shareholders?

    That’s there’s no duty owed to other interested parties.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    The strange thing is though, their accounts from the 31st March 2018 look very strong. They had 4 times cash to pay their creditors !

    http://investors.patisserieholdings.co.uk/~/media/Files/P/Patisserie-Valerie-IR/results-presentations/interim-results-6months-31082018.pdf

    Cash and cash equivalents +28,840,000; Total liabilities +6,944,000; Net cash generated from operating activities +11,871,000

    OK So they do have "some" 'intangibles' but strip them out and the company's ratios still look great.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704
    Pulpstar said:

    The strange thing is though, their accounts from the 31st March 2018 look very strong. They had 4 times cash to pay their creditors !

    http://investors.patisserieholdings.co.uk/~/media/Files/P/Patisserie-Valerie-IR/results-presentations/interim-results-6months-31082018.pdf

    Cash and cash equivalents +28,840,000; Total liabilities +6,944,000; Net cash generated from operating activities +11,871,000

    OK So they do have "some" 'intangibles' but strip them out and the company's ratios still look great.
    Yep, something has gone, very very wrong. If they have cash, they should be able to keep trading. If they can't then where exactly has the money gone?

    Even if they discovered a liability or wrote down some assets the cash should still be there,
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    Has Caparo v Dickman been superseded ?

    On what point?
    That audit reports are solely for the shareholders?

    That’s there’s no duty owed to other interested parties.
    In a strict duty sense yes, but i would be rather worried if i was the FD or the audit partner right now!!
  • Has Caparo v Dickman been superseded ?

    On what point?
    That audit reports are solely for the shareholders?

    That’s there’s no duty owed to other interested parties.
    In a strict duty sense yes, but i would be rather worried if i was the FD or the audit partner right now!!
    Thanks.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Exactly! :+1:

    It is surprising how many people either forget that or do not seem to understand it. A bump in the CashFlow can bring any business to its knees.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    If the one in Stratford on Avon is anything to go by, I’m not in the least surprised.
    Their branch in Oxford was once quite charming, though.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,959
    Scott_P said:

    I’d sooner eat a pizza with pineapple on it.

    There is a cafe in Chester that serves cheese and ham toasties. With Pineapple...
    Fire up the Quattro.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    In the South it’s “expropriating former communist state assets to spend in the shops” ?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,704

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Pulpstar said:

    The strange thing is though, their accounts from the 31st March 2018 look very strong. They had 4 times cash to pay their creditors !

    http://investors.patisserieholdings.co.uk/~/media/Files/P/Patisserie-Valerie-IR/results-presentations/interim-results-6months-31082018.pdf

    Cash and cash equivalents +28,840,000; Total liabilities +6,944,000; Net cash generated from operating activities +11,871,000

    OK So they do have "some" 'intangibles' but strip them out and the company's ratios still look great.
    Strong-looking accounts might be the problem.
  • Pulpstar said:

    The strange thing is though, their accounts from the 31st March 2018 look very strong. They had 4 times cash to pay their creditors !

    http://investors.patisserieholdings.co.uk/~/media/Files/P/Patisserie-Valerie-IR/results-presentations/interim-results-6months-31082018.pdf

    Cash and cash equivalents +28,840,000; Total liabilities +6,944,000; Net cash generated from operating activities +11,871,000

    OK So they do have "some" 'intangibles' but strip them out and the company's ratios still look great.
    Yep, something has gone, very very wrong. If they have cash, they should be able to keep trading. If they can't then where exactly has the money gone?

    Even if they discovered a liability or wrote down some assets the cash should still be there,
    It's pretty obvious they don't have £28m in cash.

    As numerous commentators pointed out, their income receipts show a return of just £1,000 on cash whereas (apparently) 1% or so would be expected, i.e. £280,000.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
    Community?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    Nigelb said:

    Sean_F said:

    O/T, Cruz is now up 9% in the latest Quinnipiac poll. It's very hard to see a path now, by which the Democrats can take the Senate.

    And Heitkamp’s numbers looking pretty awful in ND, too. The attempt effectively to disenfranchise around 6% of the population that one might assume would favour her can’t help much, either.
    Several polls are showing the Rep incumbent slightly up in Nevada. Could be looking at Rep gains in the Senate (but losses in the house)
    Long way to go to November. The odds against are pretty steep, but I’m not yet completely writing off even Heitkamp.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Exactly! :+1:

    It is surprising how many people either forget that or do not seem to understand it. A bump in the CashFlow can bring any business to its knees.
    It's an old concept, but 'cocooning' is certainly a key trend in our social circle. Why go out and endure slothful service and indifferent food? Watching Netflix with some beautiful home made food, hanging out online while enjoying the family is cheaper and more interesting. If we're going to eat out, it has to be special.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
    where else are we going to have saturday night punch ups ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    SeanT said:

    2nd referendum it is then

    Hold on, where did @Dura_Ace get to? Anyone seen him?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    Its called the Brexit Show
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
    Places with great town centres tend to also be the best places to live in my experience. Towns like Ludlow, Lincoln, Litchfield etc all seem to do a good job of mixing leisure, retail and office space in well defined town centres.

    Also I'm sure there are lovely towns that don't begin with L, but those are the ones that sprung to mind!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    T

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
    They need reinventing as places to live.
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
    Places with great town centres tend to also be the best places to live in my experience. Towns like Ludlow, Lincoln, Litchfield etc all seem to do a good job of mixing leisure, retail and office space in well defined town centres.

    Also I'm sure there are lovely towns that don't begin with L, but those are the ones that sprung to mind!
    Luton?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
    When youre in Frankfurt youre going to have to change your avatar

    How about Hermann Goering Division ?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Fallschirm-Panzer_Division_Hermann_Göring
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
    He did ?
    Idiot.

  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    murali_s said:

    O/T Amber weather warning : South Wales

    https://twitter.com/metoffice/status/1050327488860172288

    Weather warning AMBER. RUDDy hell!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    edited October 2018

    Pulpstar said:

    The strange thing is though, their accounts from the 31st March 2018 look very strong. They had 4 times cash to pay their creditors !

    http://investors.patisserieholdings.co.uk/~/media/Files/P/Patisserie-Valerie-IR/results-presentations/interim-results-6months-31082018.pdf

    Cash and cash equivalents +28,840,000; Total liabilities +6,944,000; Net cash generated from operating activities +11,871,000

    OK So they do have "some" 'intangibles' but strip them out and the company's ratios still look great.
    Yep, something has gone, very very wrong. If they have cash, they should be able to keep trading. If they can't then where exactly has the money gone?

    Even if they discovered a liability or wrote down some assets the cash should still be there,
    It's pretty obvious they don't have £28m in cash.

    As numerous commentators pointed out, their income receipts show a return of just £1,000 on cash whereas (apparently) 1% or so would be expected, i.e. £280,000.
    Not neccesarily, there's plenty of business current accounts out there that are still on ~ 0% interest. Barclays bus. premium paid 0.25% till recently on £1m+.
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
    He did ?
    Idiot.

    He did.

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2010/feb/05/private-eye-magazines
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
    In his (and Private Eye's) defence, he eventually admitted they were in the wrong, produced a report into it, and has thoroughly castigated Wakefield ever since. Too many other people in the media who backed Wakefield either still do, or have remained silent.

    P Eye's report actually altered my view on the MMR scandal for a few weeks, until other information persuaded me that they were being arses.

    http://www.drphilhammond.com/blog/2010/02/18/private-eye/dr-phil’s-private-eye-column-issue-1256-february-17-2010/
  • Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
    He did ?
    Idiot.

    http://www.drphilhammond.com/blog/2010/02/18/private-eye/dr-phil’s-private-eye-column-issue-1256-february-17-2010/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    That's a strange comment for a PB contributor to make. Our political class is the group of people who have stepped up and, through the various challenges, setbacks, and compromises, achieved a position of some limited influence in the face of significant opposition (and Opposition).

    Of course if the country was run by PB-ers then things would be different but, you know, it doesn't seem likely.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    Early tip for next year’s igNobel:
    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/10/03/1807862115

    PNAS is a very prestigious journal, BTW.
  • https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
    Places with great town centres tend to also be the best places to live in my experience. Towns like Ludlow, Lincoln, Litchfield etc all seem to do a good job of mixing leisure, retail and office space in well defined town centres.

    Also I'm sure there are lovely towns that don't begin with L, but those are the ones that sprung to mind!
    Luton?
    Had the misfortune to use the Airport there a few times. Have never seen chaos and overcrowding like it!
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The strange thing is though, their accounts from the 31st March 2018 look very strong. They had 4 times cash to pay their creditors !

    http://investors.patisserieholdings.co.uk/~/media/Files/P/Patisserie-Valerie-IR/results-presentations/interim-results-6months-31082018.pdf

    Cash and cash equivalents +28,840,000; Total liabilities +6,944,000; Net cash generated from operating activities +11,871,000

    OK So they do have "some" 'intangibles' but strip them out and the company's ratios still look great.
    Yep, something has gone, very very wrong. If they have cash, they should be able to keep trading. If they can't then where exactly has the money gone?

    Even if they discovered a liability or wrote down some assets the cash should still be there,
    It's pretty obvious they don't have £28m in cash.

    As numerous commentators pointed out, their income receipts show a return of just £1,000 on cash whereas (apparently) 1% or so would be expected, i.e. £280,000.
    Not neccesarily, there's plenty of business current accounts out there that are still on ~ 0% interest. Barclays bus. premium paid 0.25% till recently on £1m+.
    I mean, that's what Bloomberg said. I really have no idea.

    But as a layman it seems like a decent question to ask. Indeed I don#t know why shareholders were happy with them receiving a return (at ~0%) which was lower than their WACC.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    That's a strange comment for a PB contributor to make. Our political class is the group of people who have stepped up and, through the various challenges, setbacks, and compromises, achieved a position of some limited influence in the face of significant opposition (and Opposition).

    Of course if the country was run by PB-ers then things would be different but, you know, it doesn't seem likely.
    Perhaps he was talking about Liam Fox, in which case, fair comment.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    John_M said:

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    That's a strange comment for a PB contributor to make. Our political class is the group of people who have stepped up and, through the various challenges, setbacks, and compromises, achieved a position of some limited influence in the face of significant opposition (and Opposition).

    Of course if the country was run by PB-ers then things would be different but, you know, it doesn't seem likely.
    Perhaps he was talking about Liam Fox, in which case, fair comment.
    God yes.

    :smile:
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,559
    edited October 2018
    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    That's a strange comment for a PB contributor to make. Our political class is the group of people who have stepped up and, through the various challenges, setbacks, and compromises, achieved a position of some limited influence in the face of significant opposition (and Opposition).

    Of course if the country was run by PB-ers then things would be different but, you know, it doesn't seem likely.
    If trhe country was run by PB Eagles wpuld achieve his goal of being lifetime dictator by censoring everybody elses posts

    Mike would be elevated to some sort of deity and sent on endless wine tasting holidays
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,517
    On Pat Val:

    We used to go once a month or so when the Cambridge branch opened, until the little 'un was born. It was a pleasant place to go for eggs benedict on a Sunday morning, and not too pricey.

    However they then opened another branch about ten minutes walk away, and the quality seemed to decrease slightly. It also had a less of a 'special' feeling once there were branches everywhere.

    I do wonder if over-expansion might have been an issue. Why did central Cambridge require two branches?

    I guess we'll just have to go to the Orchard from now on - as long as there is still honey for tea ... ;)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/amazon-v-the-high-street-how-doncaster-is-fighting-back

    Great article from John Harris in the Guardian about Doncaster and the impact of Amazon and the warehouse economy.

    "Once, it was a byword for coalmining. When the pits shut, it was pushed towards the kind of chain-store retailing that defined a strangely circular economic model, in which people worked in shops to spend money in other shops. Now, as it embraces the new world of warehousing and “logistics”, one question screams out for an answer: what is going to happen to its town centre?"

    The line about "working in shops to spend money in other shops" really struck me as defining the insanity of large parts of UK economy for the past 40 or so years, particularly the post industrial North.

    The brutal question is 'why do we need town centres at all?'

    Apart from lesiure (and thats questionable) we really don't anymore.
    Ban cars,lorries and buses from them and they thrive. Not rocket science.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    On Pat Val:

    We used to go once a month or so when the Cambridge branch opened, until the little 'un was born. It was a pleasant place to go for eggs benedict on a Sunday morning, and not too pricey.

    However they then opened another branch about ten minutes walk away, and the quality seemed to decrease slightly. It also had a less of a 'special' feeling once there were branches everywhere.

    I do wonder if over-expansion might have been an issue. Why did central Cambridge require two branches?

    I guess we'll just have to go to the Orchard from now on - as long as there is still honey for tea ... ;)

    Never been and guess that I have missed my chance:

    https://twitter.com/Cornwall4EU/status/1049931301221015553?s=19
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I’d sooner eat a pizza with pineapple on it.
    They serve nothing else in Frankfurt......
    I’ve been to Frankfurt several times this year. I’ve been satisfied with the food.
    I don't advise acting on gourmet advice from someone from Sheffield

    Mancunion sense of humour. My favourite
  • Nigelb said:
    I walked passed them wondering what the fuss was about, now I know.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited October 2018

    On Pat Val:

    We used to go once a month or so when the Cambridge branch opened, until the little 'un was born. It was a pleasant place to go for eggs benedict on a Sunday morning, and not too pricey.

    However they then opened another branch about ten minutes walk away, and the quality seemed to decrease slightly. It also had a less of a 'special' feeling once there were branches everywhere.

    I do wonder if over-expansion might have been an issue. Why did central Cambridge require two branches?

    I guess we'll just have to go to the Orchard from now on - as long as there is still honey for tea ... ;)

    I think this is true of loads of these chains that are getting into financial trouble.

    They are too much money for a product that is no longer that special / unique. They have all expanded rapidly with the presumption that the demand will only continue to increase, despite all the competition in this space and only limited demand for £15 burgers etc.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    Who'd believe you could go bust feeding the Brits cream cakes
  • Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I’d sooner eat a pizza with pineapple on it.
    They serve nothing else in Frankfurt......
    I’ve been to Frankfurt several times this year. I’ve been satisfied with the food.
    I don't advise acting on gourmet advice from someone from Sheffield

    Mancunion sense of humour. My favourite
    Manchester doesn’t have a single Michelin starred restaurant.
  • Roger said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I’d sooner eat a pizza with pineapple on it.
    They serve nothing else in Frankfurt......
    I’ve been to Frankfurt several times this year. I’ve been satisfied with the food.
    I don't advise acting on gourmet advice from someone from Sheffield

    Mancunion sense of humour. My favourite
    Manchester doesn’t have a single Michelin starred restaurant.
    Bit hard if the inspectors don't even go there.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    edited October 2018
    Foxy said:

    On Pat Val:

    We used to go once a month or so when the Cambridge branch opened, until the little 'un was born. It was a pleasant place to go for eggs benedict on a Sunday morning, and not too pricey.

    However they then opened another branch about ten minutes walk away, and the quality seemed to decrease slightly. It also had a less of a 'special' feeling once there were branches everywhere.

    I do wonder if over-expansion might have been an issue. Why did central Cambridge require two branches?

    I guess we'll just have to go to the Orchard from now on - as long as there is still honey for tea ... ;)

    Never been and guess that I have missed my chance:

    https://twitter.com/Cornwall4EU/status/1049931301221015553?s=19
    Looks fake. Give me a sec

    Jut how they've redone it for Twitter format. You can read hte article

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/699715/Brexit-brilliant-for-business-says-top-entrepreneur
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575

    TOPPING said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    That's a strange comment for a PB contributor to make. Our political class is the group of people who have stepped up and, through the various challenges, setbacks, and compromises, achieved a position of some limited influence in the face of significant opposition (and Opposition).

    Of course if the country was run by PB-ers then things would be different but, you know, it doesn't seem likely.
    If trhe country was run by PB Eagles wpuld achieve his goal of being lifetime dictator by censoring everybody elses posts

    Mike would be elevated to some sort of deity and sent on endless wine tasting holidays
    PBers seem a fairly godless bunch - perhaps a constitutionless monarch instead ?

  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited October 2018

    Nigelb said:
    I walked passed them wondering what the fuss was about, now I know.
    More Mancunion humour...".In a tweet, Insp John Middleton quipped: "I hope this isn't the start of a new craze that starts to spread."
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    Foxy said:

    On Pat Val:

    We used to go once a month or so when the Cambridge branch opened, until the little 'un was born. It was a pleasant place to go for eggs benedict on a Sunday morning, and not too pricey.

    However they then opened another branch about ten minutes walk away, and the quality seemed to decrease slightly. It also had a less of a 'special' feeling once there were branches everywhere.

    I do wonder if over-expansion might have been an issue. Why did central Cambridge require two branches?

    I guess we'll just have to go to the Orchard from now on - as long as there is still honey for tea ... ;)

    Never been and guess that I have missed my chance:

    https://twitter.com/Cornwall4EU/status/1049931301221015553?s=19
    Luke Johnson writes a regular financial article in the Sunday Times which I generally read and is often quite interesting. I will look out for his article this week if he publishes one. Could make interesting reading!
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    That is possibly the worst advert I have ever seen!
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
    Did you put that down to an error-of-judgement or lost-the-plot anti-vaxing?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    Roger said:

    Nigelb said:
    I walked passed them wondering what the fuss was about, now I know.
    More Mancunion humour...".In a tweet, Insp John Middleton quipped: "I hope this isn't the start of a new craze that starts to spread."
    :-)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    I see UC is finally blowing up. How is this a surprise to people like Johnny Mercer or indeed, by the sound of it the Cabinet (who Ester McVey had to brief this week)?

    I've been warning about the £2K or so many couples and lone parents would lose for months on here.

    I do sometimes really wonder what politicians actually do all day, when they don't know basic policy implications like this.
  • Anorak said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sean_F said:

    Anorak said:

    Looks like TSE has landed on his feet! What a thrilling video.....I'm packing my bags....

    https://twitter.com/FMFdigital/status/1049634298955993089

    Dunno. Frankfurt doesn't seem to be humming with ethnic diversity according to that.
    I went to Frankfurt once. Rabbits on a roundabout. Some church bell that had all sorts of overtones when rung. Err, most of it passed me by, tbh.
    It does have the Frankfurt Book Fair, an opera house, and an English Theatre. With 750,000 people there's probably a lot going on.
    I reckon @Thescreamingeagles will be lederhosen clad and will have joined a local Oompah band within a month of touchdown at FRA
    I expect that he will enjoy a singalong in the bars:

    https://youtu.be/29Mg6Gfh9Co

    More like this, surely.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReIAna459sg
    God I miss Spitting Image. That program had real genius and stung. Now we have arseholes sitting on a "quiz" no one gives a damn about.
    The main writing credit there is for Ian Hislop.
    Yes I noticed that but he has got a bit too smug and comfortable too. Our political class are absurd, vain, ignorant, incompetent and egotistical. They could really do with something like Spitting Image taking them down a peg or 6.
    I’ll never forgive Hislop for supporting Andrew Wakefield.

    He’s ruined the lives of so many.
    Did you put that down to an error-of-judgement or lost-the-plot anti-vaxing?
    Both.

    Far too many people think correlation equals causation.
  • Who could have guessed this was a possibility...

    Trans inmate jailed for Wakefield prison sex offences

    The court heard White, who was born male and now identifies as a woman, used her "transgender persona" to put herself in contact with vulnerable women.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-45825838
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Sean_F said:

    So far, the ERG seem to have exhibited little spine. I think Mrs May would have little risk in facing them down. They appear to be nothing but ill-informed, bluster merchants. Why the Tory party lets them hold it ransom is beyond me.

    I think that May can call their bluff.
    It strikes me that the ERG gang have cried wolf far too often. Failing to follow through on threats undermines your credibility.
    Sabres should not be used just for rattling..
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Anyone know why Patisserie Valerie is on the brink of collapse?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45824285
This discussion has been closed.