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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast. How important is the economy in driving voting intention?

On this week’s PB / Polling Matters podcast, Keiran Pedley and Leo Barasi discuss the political lay of the land as we approach the budget, what the public think about the economy (and who they trust to run it) and how important the economy is in voting intention terms in a Brexit-dominated 2018.

Read the full story here

Freggles

First

Freggles

I look forward to listening to this tomorrow, while doing some DIY.
I only wish it were available on Spotify for convenience.

Pulpstar

Right now not very important, because it is going well.
When the next recession comes round it'll move north in salience.

viewcode

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

Benpointer

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I do support all councils but you have to admit that the Chief Executives and others are very overpaid, they have many wasting assets, and are generally unimaginitive

Social care is a problem and the government have provided more funds for this plus an ability to increae council tax.

County Council CEOs are very highly paid but it's the Councils that set the pay rates and they would argue (I imagine) you need to set appropriate pay levels to get quality candidates.

I don't know what a "wasting asset" is - if you mean land and buildings I doubt there's a pot of gold at the end of any Council property estate rainbow.

You say the Government has "promised funds for social care" but how much and when? An extra 2% precept is a drop in the ocean for what is actually needed and if the Government contribution is reduced in real terms the Councils are forced to apply the maximum increase to stand still.

Here in Aberconwy BC they are proposing a 12% increase in council tax and we have bin collections once every four weeks. And Wales labour get more per head from central government than England

Isn't that a Tory led council? What has Welsh Labour to do with your bins or your Council Tax?

No it is coalition of parties.

The argument has been central government are starving local councils of funding. The same in Wales run by labour who receive more per head than those in England. The council is in deficit starved of funds from Cardiff

But doesn't Cardiff only get what the Tory government in London allows it?

Benpointer

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

How can anyone think that's a goat?!

dixiedean

Benpointer said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

How can anyone think that's a goat?!

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

Foxy

A strengthening economy did John Major no favours in 1997.

Indeed it sometimes means people want a little bit of a spree.

viewcode

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

D'y'know, a lot of energy has been expended over the past years on PB on nationalism. It usually devolves into arguments between those who think England should be ruled by Brussels, the Anglosphere, the Commonwealth, or Edinburgh/Dublin/whatever. But this is a sheep. It's one of the most British animals ever. You can bang on about robins and adders, but they're pretty rare. They're ubiquitous outside large towns and they're the most docile creatures imaginable. I can't criticise that person for killing the sheep, since I'm partial to a lamb sandwich myself. But hunting one? Lord, what is the world coming to...

Pulpstar

In terms of Keynesian economics, right now we should be tightening our belts.

NickPalmer

dixiedean said:

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

I was an urban child, and vividly remember the teacher's fury when we were asked to spell the names of animals and I wrote "C-A-L-F" under a lamb. She was convinced I was winding her up, but at age 5 or so I'd never seen either one.

If I'd been asked to spell "pavement" I'd have been fine.

Benpointer

Dialling 999 for the PB grammar police - shouldn't that be "lie of the land"?

"Lay of the land" has altogether different connotations.

Foxy

Benpointer said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

How can anyone think that's a goat?!

God knows the difference, but not so keen on goats: From Matthew:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

rottenborough

viewcode said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

D'y'know, a lot of energy has been expended over the past years on PB on nationalism. It usually devolves into arguments between those who think England should be ruled by Brussels, the Anglosphere, the Commonwealth, or Edinburgh/Dublin/whatever. But this is a sheep. It's one of the most British animals ever. You can bang on about robins and adders, but they're pretty rare. They're ubiquitous outside large towns and they're the most docile creatures imaginable. I can't criticise that person for killing the sheep, since I'm partial to a lamb sandwich myself. But hunting one? Lord, what is the world coming to...

http://thenational.scot/news/17004309.fury-over-pictures-of-goat-hunt-on-scottish-island/

Pro_Rata

dixiedean said:

Benpointer said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

How can anyone think that's a goat?!

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

Londoners know that in the English countryside the sheep voted leave and the goats voted Remain. However, this is a Scottish Remainer sheep, thus the confusion.

rottenborough

I'm tempted to think the sheep huntress account is a spoof.

Big_G_NorthWales

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I do support all councils but you have to admit that the Chief Executives and others are very overpaid, they have many wasting assets, and are generally unimaginitive

Social care is a problem and the government have provided more funds for this plus an ability to increae council tax.

County Council CEOs are very highly paid but it's the Councils that set the pay rates and they would argue (I imagine) you need to set appropriate pay levels to get quality candidates.

I don't know what a "wasting asset" is - if you mean land and buildings I doubt there's a pot of gold at the end of any Council property estate rainbow.

You say the Government has "promised funds for social care" but how much and when? An extra 2% precept is a drop in the ocean for what is actually needed and if the Government contribution is reduced in real terms the Councils are forced to apply the maximum increase to stand still.

Here in Aberconwy BC they are proposing a 12% increase in council tax and we have bin collections once every four weeks. And Wales labour get more per head from central government than England

Isn't that a Tory led council? What has Welsh Labour to do with your bins or your Council Tax?

No it is coalition of parties.

The argument has been central government are starving local councils of funding. The same in Wales run by labour who receive more per head than those in England. The council is in deficit starved of funds from Cardiff

But doesn't Cardiff only get what the Tory government in London allows it?

It gets more per capita than England and wastes it

Pulpstar

It's a sheep.

viewcode

rottenborough said:

viewcode said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

D'y'know, a lot of energy has been expended over the past years on PB on nationalism. It usually devolves into arguments between those who think England should be ruled by Brussels, the Anglosphere, the Commonwealth, or Edinburgh/Dublin/whatever. But this is a sheep. It's one of the most British animals ever. You can bang on about robins and adders, but they're pretty rare. They're ubiquitous outside large towns and they're the most docile creatures imaginable. I can't criticise that person for killing the sheep, since I'm partial to a lamb sandwich myself. But hunting one? Lord, what is the world coming to...

http://thenational.scot/news/17004309.fury-over-pictures-of-goat-hunt-on-scottish-island/

I don't care what she thinks it is, I think it's a sheep.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/scottish-black-faced-sheep-islay.html

Theuniondivvie

Benpointer said:

Dialling 999 for the PB grammar police - shouldn't that be "lie of the land"?

"Lay of the land" has altogether different connotations.

I think lay of the land is ok, the same thing just a bit more archaic maybe.

*prepares for rubber truncheons from the grammar polizei*

Benpointer

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I do support all councils but you have to admit that the Chief Executives and others are very overpaid, they have many wasting assets, and are generally unimaginitive

Social care is a problem and the government have provided more funds for this plus an ability to increae council tax.

County Council CEOs are very highly paid but it's the Councils that set the pay rates and they would argue (I imagine) you need to set appropriate pay levels to get quality candidates.

I don't know what a "wasting asset" is - if you mean land and buildings I doubt there's a pot of gold at the end of any Council property estate rainbow.

You say the Government has "promised funds for social care" but how much and when? An extra 2% precept is a drop in the ocean for what is actually needed and if the Government contribution is reduced in real terms the Councils are forced to apply the maximum increase to stand still.

Here in Aberconwy BC they are proposing a 12% increase in council tax and we have bin collections once every four weeks. And Wales labour get more per head from central government than England

Isn't that a Tory led council? What has Welsh Labour to do with your bins or your Council Tax?

No it is coalition of parties.

The argument has been central government are starving local councils of funding. The same in Wales run by labour who receive more per head than those in England. The council is in deficit starved of funds from Cardiff

But doesn't Cardiff only get what the Tory government in London allows it?

It gets more per capita than England and wastes it

You can't get away from the fact that the Tory government ultimately controls all the purse strings.

Pulpstar

I've now got access to ssme fair and balanced news, GOP turnout higher than DEM in several states according to "The five"

viewcode

viewcode said:

rottenborough said:

viewcode said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

D'y'know, a lot of energy has been expended over the past years on PB on nationalism. It usually devolves into arguments between those who think England should be ruled by Brussels, the Anglosphere, the Commonwealth, or Edinburgh/Dublin/whatever. But this is a sheep. It's one of the most British animals ever. You can bang on about robins and adders, but they're pretty rare. They're ubiquitous outside large towns and they're the most docile creatures imaginable. I can't criticise that person for killing the sheep, since I'm partial to a lamb sandwich myself. But hunting one? Lord, what is the world coming to...

http://thenational.scot/news/17004309.fury-over-pictures-of-goat-hunt-on-scottish-island/

I don't care what she thinks it is, I think it's a sheep.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/scottish-black-faced-sheep-islay.html

The clue's in the phrase "black-faced ram". A "ram" is a male sheep. A male goat is a "billy" (google tells me its also a "buck")

rottenborough

Theuniondivvie said:

Benpointer said:

Dialling 999 for the PB grammar police - shouldn't that be "lie of the land"?

"Lay of the land" has altogether different connotations.

I think lay of the land is ok, the same thing just a bit more archaic maybe.

*prepares for rubber truncheons from the grammar polizei*

Richard Ford's 2006 fiction book: "The Lay of the land"

viewcode

#itsasheepgodsdammit

Foxy

Goat hunting was quite a popular pastime in NZ when I lived there. Feral goats are quite destructive to indigenous plants. Mostly it was done by stalking. Feral pighunting too, but that was done on horseback with dogs.

TheWhiteRabbit

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

AndyJS

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

Big_G_NorthWales

Benpointer said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Benpointer said:

FPT:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

dixiedean said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

stodge said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

I do support all councils but you have to admit that the Chief Executives and others are very overpaid, they have many wasting assets, and are generally unimaginitive

Social care is a problem and the government have provided more funds for this plus an ability to increae council tax.

County Council CEOs are very highly paid but it's the Councils that set the pay rates and they would argue (I imagine) you need to set appropriate pay levels to get quality candidates.

I don't know what a "wasting asset" is - if you mean land and buildings I doubt there's a pot of gold at the end of any Council property estate rainbow.

You say the Government has "promised funds for social care" but how much and when? An extra 2% precept is a drop in the ocean for what is actually needed and if the Government contribution is reduced in real terms the Councils are forced to apply the maximum increase to stand still.

Here in Aberconwy BC they are proposing a 12% increase in council tax and we have bin collections once every four weeks. And Wales labour get more per head from central government than England

Isn't that a Tory led council? What has Welsh Labour to do with your bins or your Council Tax?

No it is coalition of parties.

The argument has been central government are starving local councils of funding. The same in Wales run by labour who receive more per head than those in England. The council is in deficit starved of funds from Cardiff

But doesn't Cardiff only get what the Tory government in London allows it?

It gets more per capita than England and wastes it

You can't get away from the fact that the Tory government ultimately controls all the purse strings.

Good try Ben. Wales gets more than England and labour is responsible

dixiedean

Sheep or goat. At least it kept her away from some poor endangered species for the day.

Big_G_NorthWales

Foxy said:

Goat hunting was quite a popular pastime in NZ when I lived there. Feral goats are quite destructive to indigenous plants. Mostly it was done by stalking. Feral pighunting too, but that was done on horseback with dogs.

Fury in Scotland led by Nicola Sturgeon with review of laws over culling

rottenborough

AndyJS said:

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

A guest of UKIP leaders; a party which is in serious flux to something else.

Cyclefree

NickPalmer said:

dixiedean said:

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

I was an urban child, and vividly remember the teacher's fury when we were asked to spell the names of animals and I wrote "C-A-L-F" under a lamb. She was convinced I was winding her up, but at age 5 or so I'd never seen either one.

If I'd been asked to spell "pavement" I'd have been fine.

One of my colleagues aged about 40 did not understand where milk came from. Seriously.

Big_G_NorthWales

AndyJS said:

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

It is just wrong but

Labour very quiet - I wonder why

Foxy

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AndyJS said:

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

It is just wrong but

Labour very quiet - I wonder why

Letting UKIP poison itself is a good thing?

Cyclefree

viewcode said:

viewcode said:

rottenborough said:

viewcode said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

D'y'know, a lot of energy has been expended over the past years on PB on nationalism. It usually devolves into arguments between those who think England should be ruled by Brussels, the Anglosphere, the Commonwealth, or Edinburgh/Dublin/whatever. But this is a sheep. It's one of the most British animals ever. You can bang on about robins and adders, but they're pretty rare. They're ubiquitous outside large towns and they're the most docile creatures imaginable. I can't criticise that person for killing the sheep, since I'm partial to a lamb sandwich myself. But hunting one? Lord, what is the world coming to...

http://thenational.scot/news/17004309.fury-over-pictures-of-goat-hunt-on-scottish-island/

I don't care what she thinks it is, I think it's a sheep.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/scottish-black-faced-sheep-islay.html

The clue's in the phrase "black-faced ram". A "ram" is a male sheep. A male goat is a "billy" (google tells me its also a "buck")

I like sheep. And cows. And horses and pigs and chicken. One of my not so secret vices is attending farm shows. When I finally retire I will keep chickens and, possibly, a pig. A horse would be nice but they eat money. Still a horse and cart would be a fun way to get around. And the manure would be good for the garden. I quite like bees too. But loathe honey.

Big_G_NorthWales

Foxy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AndyJS said:

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

It is just wrong but

Labour very quiet - I wonder why

Letting UKIP poison itself is a good thing?

Yes of course but what about Corbyn activities and persons he has invited.

Not like you to have double standards

Pulpstar

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The stag is fair enough, the goat - well not to my tastes, but unless that tup is owned by the shooting estate.. that is a farmer's private property. Perhaps it is owned by the hunting estate ( It's not wild like the stag or goat?) But seems weird to keep err sheep as game...
So I wonder if some crime might have been committed here, tups are valuable !

viewcode

Cyclefree said:

NickPalmer said:

dixiedean said:

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

I was an urban child, and vividly remember the teacher's fury when we were asked to spell the names of animals and I wrote "C-A-L-F" under a lamb. She was convinced I was winding her up, but at age 5 or so I'd never seen either one.

If I'd been asked to spell "pavement" I'd have been fine.

One of my colleagues aged about 40 did not understand where milk came from. Seriously.

My former boss has two degrees and is studying for a third. He's a Northern STEM graduate, bright as a button, who's in charge of our Microsoft Azure installation. At the 2015 GE he came up to me and asked me "Erm...you know about politics. Do Scottish people get to vote in our election?".

[bites lip, tries not to scream]

Big_G_NorthWales

Time to go

Have a relaxed night everyone

Good night folks

viewcode

Pulpstar said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The stag is fair enough, the goat - well not to my tastes, but unless that tup is owned by the shooting estate.. that is a farmer's private property. Perhaps it is owned by the hunting estate ( It's not wild like the stag or goat?) But seems weird to keep err sheep as game...
So I wonder if some crime might have been committed here, tups are valuable !

I don't think it's a crime, especially in the context of tomorrow's dinner, but it's a bit weird boasting about hunting sheep in full camo. Tomorrow: stalking the deadly hamster. "LOOK OUT ITS GOT A WHEEL! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!"

Foxy

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Foxy said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AndyJS said:

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

It is just wrong but

Labour very quiet - I wonder why

Letting UKIP poison itself is a good thing?

Yes of course but what about Corbyn activities and persons he has invited.

Not like you to have double standards

Tommy Robinson is a convicted fraudster with spent convictions for violence. I wouldn't invite him to dinner, but I don't particularly mind if others do.

viewcode

Cyclefree said:

...I quite like bees too. But loathe honey...

I can't help thinking it's normally the other way around...

Jonathan

Cyclefree said:

NickPalmer said:

dixiedean said:

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

I was an urban child, and vividly remember the teacher's fury when we were asked to spell the names of animals and I wrote "C-A-L-F" under a lamb. She was convinced I was winding her up, but at age 5 or so I'd never seen either one.

If I'd been asked to spell "pavement" I'd have been fine.

One of my colleagues aged about 40 did not understand where milk came from. Seriously.

Pull the udder one.

HYUFD

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

HYUFD

Pulpstar said:

I've now got access to ssme fair and balanced news, GOP turnout higher than DEM in several states according to "The five"

Early voting has little correlation to actual results. I still expect the GOP to lose the House even if they hold the Senate, Trump's rating this month is 1% less than Obama's was at this stage in 2010 just before the Democrats lost the House

https://news.gallup.com/interactives/185273/r.aspx?g_source=WWWV7HP&g_medium=topic&g_campaign=tiles

Theuniondivvie

Perhaps a clue as to the comparative smoothness of the Spain/Gibraltar thing.

https://twitter.com/peterbrownbarra/status/1055061367894499328

Pulpstar

viewcode said:

Pulpstar said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The stag is fair enough, the goat - well not to my tastes, but unless that tup is owned by the shooting estate.. that is a farmer's private property. Perhaps it is owned by the hunting estate ( It's not wild like the stag or goat?) But seems weird to keep err sheep as game...
So I wonder if some crime might have been committed here, tups are valuable !

I don't think it's a crime, especially in the context of tomorrow's dinner, but it's a bit weird boasting about hunting sheep in full camo. Tomorrow: stalking the deadly hamster. "LOOK OUT ITS GOT A WHEEL! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!"

I think that's the worst part about it to be honest, the vulgar nature of the clothing, the rampant self publicity of her hunting business and the narcissistic nature of the selfies. And to add a domesticated SHEEP on top of all that o_O

Jonathan

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

viewcode

Pulpstar said:

viewcode said:

Pulpstar said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The stag is fair enough, the goat - well not to my tastes, but unless that tup is owned by the shooting estate.. that is a farmer's private property. Perhaps it is owned by the hunting estate ( It's not wild like the stag or goat?) But seems weird to keep err sheep as game...
So I wonder if some crime might have been committed here, tups are valuable !

I don't think it's a crime, especially in the context of tomorrow's dinner, but it's a bit weird boasting about hunting sheep in full camo. Tomorrow: stalking the deadly hamster. "LOOK OUT ITS GOT A WHEEL! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!"

I think that's the worst part about it to be honest, the vulgar nature of the clothing, the rampant self publicity of her hunting business and the narcissistic nature of the selfies. And to add a domesticated SHEEP on top of all that o_O

Indeed

Cyclefree

Jonathan said:

Cyclefree said:

NickPalmer said:

dixiedean said:

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

I was an urban child, and vividly remember the teacher's fury when we were asked to spell the names of animals and I wrote "C-A-L-F" under a lamb. She was convinced I was winding her up, but at age 5 or so I'd never seen either one.

If I'd been asked to spell "pavement" I'd have been fine.

One of my colleagues aged about 40 did not understand where milk came from. Seriously.

Pull the udder one.

Absolutely true. He had no idea that cows produced calves and that milk was a by product of the production of offspring. Grew up in Mitcham.

We had quite an interesting conversation about what teats - or tits as he would insist on calling them - were for. Never dull in my office!

HYUFD

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

rcs1000

Cyclefree said:

NickPalmer said:

dixiedean said:

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

I was an urban child, and vividly remember the teacher's fury when we were asked to spell the names of animals and I wrote "C-A-L-F" under a lamb. She was convinced I was winding her up, but at age 5 or so I'd never seen either one.

If I'd been asked to spell "pavement" I'd have been fine.

One of my colleagues aged about 40 did not understand where milk came from. Seriously.

40 years old, and never been to a supermarket.

Jesus wept, what is the world coming to?

Pulpstar

Cyclefree said:

viewcode said:

viewcode said:

rottenborough said:

viewcode said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

D'y'know, a lot of energy has been expended over the past years on PB on nationalism. It usually devolves into arguments between those who think England should be ruled by Brussels, the Anglosphere, the Commonwealth, or Edinburgh/Dublin/whatever. But this is a sheep. It's one of the most British animals ever. You can bang on about robins and adders, but they're pretty rare. They're ubiquitous outside large towns and they're the most docile creatures imaginable. I can't criticise that person for killing the sheep, since I'm partial to a lamb sandwich myself. But hunting one? Lord, what is the world coming to...

http://thenational.scot/news/17004309.fury-over-pictures-of-goat-hunt-on-scottish-island/

I don't care what she thinks it is, I think it's a sheep.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/scottish-black-faced-sheep-islay.html

The clue's in the phrase "black-faced ram". A "ram" is a male sheep. A male goat is a "billy" (google tells me its also a "buck")

I like sheep. And cows. And horses and pigs and chicken. One of my not so secret vices is attending farm shows. When I finally retire I will keep chickens and, possibly, a pig. A horse would be nice but they eat money. Still a horse and cart would be a fun way to get around. And the manure would be good for the garden. I quite like bees too. But loathe honey.

Don't remind me, my other half has two poppos.

Cyclefree

viewcode said:

Cyclefree said:

...I quite like bees too. But loathe honey...

I can't help thinking it's normally the other way around...

Normally. But gardeners love bees and when they’re pollinating flowers and flying round they are lovely. You can even stroke a bee while it is rootling round in the flower. They are absolutely no threat to humans.

Honey - eurgh! My mother would put it in hot milk when I had a sore throat. I used to retch as the cup got to the bottom.

Jonathan

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Cyclefree

rcs1000 said:

Cyclefree said:

NickPalmer said:

dixiedean said:

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

I was an urban child, and vividly remember the teacher's fury when we were asked to spell the names of animals and I wrote "C-A-L-F" under a lamb. She was convinced I was winding her up, but at age 5 or so I'd never seen either one.

If I'd been asked to spell "pavement" I'd have been fine.

One of my colleagues aged about 40 did not understand where milk came from. Seriously.

40 years old, and never been to a supermarket.

Jesus wept, what is the world coming to?

That’s investment bankers for you.

Cyclefree

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Well, now you’re being unkind. Trashing the Tories’ 2022 manifesto before it’s even been written.

HYUFD

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

Pulpstar

US TV - adverts for piles, urination issues and weight loss food all within a couple of minutes. God bless America.A

Jonathan

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

The inflation and strikes were there before that govt took office.

williamglenn

Pulpstar said:

US TV - adverts for piles, urination issues and weight loss food all within a couple of minutes. God bless America.A

Hopefully with the bone-chilling warnings about side effects that can kill you while showing happy people walking through the park.

Beverley_C

viewcode said:

Pulpstar said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The stag is fair enough, the goat - well not to my tastes, but unless that tup is owned by the shooting estate.. that is a farmer's private property. Perhaps it is owned by the hunting estate ( It's not wild like the stag or goat?) But seems weird to keep err sheep as game...
So I wonder if some crime might have been committed here, tups are valuable !

I don't think it's a crime, especially in the context of tomorrow's dinner, but it's a bit weird boasting about hunting sheep in full camo. Tomorrow: stalking the deadly hamster. "LOOK OUT ITS GOT A WHEEL! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!"

Camoflage might be very sensible....

"Mutant Marsupials Take Up Arms Against Australian Air Force

The reuse of some object-oriented code has caused tactical headaches for Australia’s armed forces. As virtual reality simulators assume larger roles in helicopter combat training , programmers have gone to great lengths to increase the realism of the their scenarios, including detailed landscapes and — in the case of the Northern Territory’s Operation Phoenix — herds of kangaroos (since groups of disturbed animals might well give away a helicopters position).

The head of the Defense Science and Technology Organization’s Land Operations/Simulations division reportedly instructed developers to model the local marsupials’ movements and reaction to helicopters.

Being efficient programmers, they just re-appropriated some code originally used to model infantry detachments reactions under the same stimuli, changed the mapped icon from a soldier to a kangaroo, and increased the figures’ speed of movement.

Eager to demonstrate their flying skills for some visiting American pilots, the hotshot Aussies “buzzed” the virtual kangaroos in low flight during a simulation. The kangaroos scattered, as predicted, and the Americans nodded appreciatively . . . and then did a double-take as the kangaroos reappeared from behind a hill and launched a barrage of stinger missiles at the hapless helicopter. (Apparently the programmers had forgotten the remove “that” part of the infantry coding).

The lesson? Objects are defined with certain attributes, and any new object defined in terms of the old one inherits all the attributes. The embarrassed programmers had learned to be careful when reusing object-oriented code, and the Yanks left with the utmost respect for the Australian wildlife.

Simulator supervisors report that pilots from that point onwards have strictly avoided kangaroos, just as they were meant to."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/shoot-me-kangaroo-down-sport/

Charles

dixiedean said:

Benpointer said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

How can anyone think that's a goat?!

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

My wife once muddled up a ram and a ewe.

I pointed out it wasn’t udders between the beast’s legs...

AndyJS

O/T

"Troubled UK café chain Patisserie Valerie on Wednesday revealed it had awarded millions of pounds of share bonuses to its two top executives without notifying shareholders.

Half of the undisclosed awards were exercised by Paul May, chief executive, and Chris Marsh, finance director, just three months before the fast-growing group suspended its shares after uncovering “significant, and potentially fraudulent” accounting irregularities. The two made £1.7m in profits on the sale of those options, exercised on July 20."

https://www.ft.com/content/074ad1d6-d771-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

MarqueeMark

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

How can anyone think that's a goat?!

God knows the difference, but not so keen on goats: From Matthew:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

Goats' tails point upwards. Sheep tails hang down. Simples.

HYUFD

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

The inflation and strikes were there before that govt took office.

It took the Thatcher and Major government's to rectify the Heath, Wilson and Callaghan legacy and then the Blair government to secure it

Pulpstar

williamglenn said:

Pulpstar said:

US TV - adverts for piles, urination issues and weight loss food all within a couple of minutes. God bless America.A

Hopefully with the bone-chilling warnings about side effects that can kill you while showing happy people walking through the park.

Young, healthy people. I feel the target markets are somewhat err .. older.

viewcode

Beverley_C said:

viewcode said:

Pulpstar said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The stag is fair enough, the goat - well not to my tastes, but unless that tup is owned by the shooting estate.. that is a farmer's private property. Perhaps it is owned by the hunting estate ( It's not wild like the stag or goat?) But seems weird to keep err sheep as game...
So I wonder if some crime might have been committed here, tups are valuable !

I don't think it's a crime, especially in the context of tomorrow's dinner, but it's a bit weird boasting about hunting sheep in full camo. Tomorrow: stalking the deadly hamster. "LOOK OUT ITS GOT A WHEEL! FLEE FOR YOUR LIVES!!!"

Camoflage might be very sensible....

"Mutant Marsupials Take Up Arms Against Australian Air Force

The reuse of some object-oriented code has caused tactical headaches for Australia’s armed forces. As virtual reality simulators assume larger roles in helicopter combat training , programmers have gone to great lengths to increase the realism of the their scenarios, including detailed landscapes and — in the case of the Northern Territory’s Operation Phoenix — herds of kangaroos (since groups of disturbed animals might well give away a helicopters position).

The head of the Defense Science and Technology Organization’s Land Operations/Simulations division reportedly instructed developers to model the local marsupials’ movements and reaction to helicopters.

Being efficient programmers, they just re-appropriated some code originally used to model infantry detachments reactions under the same stimuli, changed the mapped icon from a soldier to a kangaroo, and increased the figures’ speed of movement.

Eager to demonstrate their flying skills for some visiting American pilots, the hotshot Aussies “buzzed” the virtual kangaroos in low flight during a simulation. The kangaroos scattered, as predicted, and the Americans nodded appreciatively . . . and then did a double-take as the kangaroos reappeared from behind a hill and launched a barrage of stinger missiles at the hapless helicopter. (Apparently the programmers had forgotten the remove “that” part of the infantry coding).

The lesson? Objects are defined with certain attributes, and any new object defined in terms of the old one inherits all the attributes. The embarrassed programmers had learned to be careful when reusing object-oriented code, and the Yanks left with the utmost respect for the Australian wildlife.

Simulator supervisors report that pilots from that point onwards have strictly avoided kangaroos, just as they were meant to."

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/shoot-me-kangaroo-down-sport/

That's amazing.

Jonathan

Charles said:

dixiedean said:

Benpointer said:

viewcode said:

FPT

rcs1000 said:

Alistair said:

Yep, well, this is a thing.

https://twitter.com/daraobriain/status/1055163196984692737?s=19

Isn't that a goat?

Ohgod ohgod ohgod I might get this wrong.

1) It's a sheep, not a goat
2) It might be a Swaledale, but the legs are the wrong colour
3) So I think it's a Scottish Blackface, which fits the area.
4) Don't hate me if it's wrong (scurries away and hides)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:British_Isles_livestock

How can anyone think that's a goat?!

Bloody Metropolitan out-of-touch London elite again. With their namby-pamby inability to identify livestock.

My wife once muddled up a ram and a ewe.

I pointed out it wasn’t udders between the beast’s legs...

And yet you remain happily married despite her misconception, well done. Not easy to overcome, especially if ewe are a beast.

rpjs

Freggles said:

I look forward to listening to this tomorrow, while doing some DIY.
I only wish it were available on Spotify for convenience.

Podcasters can now add their RSS feed easily to Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com

ExiledInScotland

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The faux outrage is ridiculous.
1) Stag stalking the only viable means of controlling numbers short of reintroducing predators.
2) Feral goats are a problem for farmers in that part of Islay and they need to be culled by marksmen.
3) Farmers earn almost nothing from sheep farming.
If a good marksman can kill these animals cleanly within the law, paying the farmer for the privilege and only taking animals where necessary, everyone wins.

Of course people would rather believe that the country is green and fluffy and nothing bad need ever happen. City idiots.

Foxy

Theuniondivvie said:

Perhaps a clue as to the comparative smoothness of the Spain/Gibraltar thing.

https://twitter.com/peterbrownbarra/status/1055061367894499328

Yes, it looks as if Brexit is not going to change British fisheries by much, and not due to the CFP.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/brexit-uk-fishermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government

ExiledInScotland

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Perhaps a clue as to the comparative smoothness of the Spain/Gibraltar thing.

https://twitter.com/peterbrownbarra/status/1055061367894499328

Yes, it looks as if Brexit is not going to change British fisheries by much, and not due to the CFP.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/brexit-uk-fishermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government

How many Scottish Tory MPs will lose their seats at the next GE then?

Plank

Pulpstar said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Guys she posted three photos at least, one a goat, one a sheep, and one a stag

The stag is fair enough, the goat - well not to my tastes, but unless that tup is owned by the shooting estate.. that is a farmer's private property. Perhaps it is owned by the hunting estate ( It's not wild like the stag or goat?) But seems weird to keep err sheep as game...
So I wonder if some crime might have been committed here, tups are valuable !

The infamous occultist Alister Crowley once played a practical joke on a tourist in Scotland by lending him a gun and convincing him to go on a Haggis hunt after a "sighting" on a nearby hill. An expedition that Crowley claimed resulted in a farmers prized ram being blown away.

Beverley_C

ExiledInScotland said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Perhaps a clue as to the comparative smoothness of the Spain/Gibraltar thing.

https://twitter.com/peterbrownbarra/status/1055061367894499328

Yes, it looks as if Brexit is not going to change British fisheries by much, and not due to the CFP.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/brexit-uk-fishermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government

How many Scottish Tory MPs will lose their seats at the next GE then?

Never mind scottish ones. Fishermen the UK over voted for Brexit to get bigger quotas...

williamglenn

Beverley_C said:

ExiledInScotland said:

Foxy said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Perhaps a clue as to the comparative smoothness of the Spain/Gibraltar thing.

https://twitter.com/peterbrownbarra/status/1055061367894499328

Yes, it looks as if Brexit is not going to change British fisheries by much, and not due to the CFP.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/brexit-uk-fishermen-fishing-industry-quotas-uk-government

How many Scottish Tory MPs will lose their seats at the next GE then?

Never mind scottish ones. Fishermen the UK over voted for Brexit to get bigger quotas...

Fishing has been one of the worst examples of using the EU as a scapegoat for domestic policy.

FrancisUrquhart

According to The New York Times, the Chinese are regularly listening to Donald Trump's cellphone calls.

While he has two NSA-hardened iPhones, and a secure landline, he insists on using a consumer-grade iPhone -- even while knowing he's being eavesdropped upon -- because it has his contact list on it. "White House officials say they can only hope he refrains from discussing classified information when he is on them," reports the New York Times. But, officials were also confident that "he was not spilling secrets because he rarely digs into the details of the intelligence he is shown and is not well versed in the operational specifics of military or covert activities"; in other words, security through ignorance. The article mentions the rationale is to be able to listen to his calls to find out what and whom influences him, and that the Russians also listen in, albeit with less frequency because of his unique relationship with Vladimir Putin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/us/politics/trump-phone-security.html

bigjohnowls

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

Public services were on their knees in 1997

Over 100,000 waiting over a year for operations in NHS etc etc

notme

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AndyJS said:

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

It is just wrong but

Labour very quiet - I wonder why

Because the Tommy Robinson thing cut through and it scares the life out of them. You can say all the things you want about how he uses a fake name, could have caused a mistrial etc. But reality is there’s has been a nationwide institutional cover up of the mass raping of young girls. For two reasons. One, the perpetuators overwhelmingly Muslim men and the second, the victims overwhelmingly white girls.
The fact that these court cases had such extensive reporting restrictions is in itself perceived as evidence that the cover up is still going on.

viewcode

williamglenn said:

Fishing has been one of the worst examples of using the EU as a scapegoat for domestic policy.

Or scapesheep.

Pause.

Ah, my coat, thank you...

TheJezziah

notme said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

AndyJS said:

Tommy Robinson had lunch in the House of Lords dining room of all places on Tuesday according to this:

https://news.sky.com/story/loathsome-tommy-robinson-slammed-after-dining-in-parliament-11534373

It is just wrong but

Labour very quiet - I wonder why

Because the Tommy Robinson thing cut through and it scares the life out of them. You can say all the things you want about how he uses a fake name, could have caused a mistrial etc. But reality is there’s has been a nationwide institutional cover up of the mass raping of young girls. For two reasons. One, the perpetuators overwhelmingly Muslim men and the second, the victims overwhelmingly white girls.
The fact that these court cases had such extensive reporting restrictions is in itself perceived as evidence that the cover up is still going on.

Yep, Tommy alone fighting for the poor white people as everyone else conspires to live out their childhood dreams of covering up Muslim men raping young girls. If only we weren't all so blind we'd see it....

AndyJS

"Freezing UK tower block was cash cow for foreign investors

Agents at Liverpool flats faced 13 prosecutions last year as housing benefit flowed abroad"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/24/freezing-uk-tower-block-was-cash-cow-for-foreign-investors

TheValiant

AndyJS said:

O/T

"Troubled UK café chain Patisserie Valerie on Wednesday revealed it had awarded millions of pounds of share bonuses to its two top executives without notifying shareholders.

Half of the undisclosed awards were exercised by Paul May, chief executive, and Chris Marsh, finance director, just three months before the fast-growing group suspended its shares after uncovering “significant, and potentially fraudulent” accounting irregularities. The two made £1.7m in profits on the sale of those options, exercised on July 20."

https://www.ft.com/content/074ad1d6-d771-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

I always quite like this. The 'Company' awarded its directors.... given the company is a legal fiction, who exactly awarded the two directors these bonuses? If it wasn't the shareholders, it can only have been the two directors.

Why don't they just say 'The directors wrote themselves a massive cheque and didn't tell anyone about it'?

edmundintokyo

AndyJS said:

"Freezing UK tower block was cash cow for foreign investors

Agents at Liverpool flats faced 13 prosecutions last year as housing benefit flowed abroad"

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/24/freezing-uk-tower-block-was-cash-cow-for-foreign-investors

If there's anything meaningful in the "ooh, foreigners" angle there it seems to be that you want to rent from Saudis.

Stay away from Kuwaitis and British people. And if your landlord is Manx, run away as fast as your three legs will carry you.

RobD

Some great borrowing projections from the OBR, just in time for the budget. Turns out they think the ONS is underestimating the size of the economy.

DecrepitJohnL

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

The sky-high inflation Labour left was lower than the sky-high inflation Labour had inherited from the Conservatives, of course.

DecrepitJohnL

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

The inflation and strikes were there before that govt took office.

It took the Thatcher and Major government's to rectify the Heath, Wilson and Callaghan legacy and then the Blair government to secure it

The Heath government's main legacy was membership of the ... oh. Never mind.

MikeSmithson

DecrepitJohnL said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

The inflation and strikes were there before that govt took office.

It took the Thatcher and Major government's to rectify the Heath, Wilson and Callaghan legacy and then the Blair government to secure it

The Heath government's main legacy was membership of the ... oh. Never mind.

Heath's Tories at GE1970 hold a unique record. This was the only occasion in recent times when a party with a working Commons majority has been replaced by the main opposition party with a working majority. With all other changes of power the outgoing government had lost its working majority (1951) or didn't have one (1997), or else the incoming government didn't have a working majority (1964 & 2010)

rkrkrk

MikeSmithson said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

It’s not a huge achievement to dig a hole climb in and painfully clamber out of it.

Considering the sky high inflation Labour left and mass strikes in 1979, the legacy the Tories left office with in 1997 compares rather better

The inflation and strikes were there before that govt took office.

It took the Thatcher and Major government's to rectify the Heath, Wilson and Callaghan legacy and then the Blair government to secure it

The Heath government's main legacy was membership of the ... oh. Never mind.

Heath's Tories at GE1970 hold a unique record. This was the only occasion in recent times when a party with a working Commons majority has been replaced by the main opposition party with a working majority. With all other changes of power the outgoing government had lost its working majority (1951) or didn't have one (1997), or else the incoming government didn't have a working majority (1964 & 2010)

Had never thought of that but you're absolutely right of course.

Pulpstar

Brilliant, I see the truce/unity call on rhetoric in the US has lasted all of a couple of hours.

Nigelb

Pulpstar said:

Brilliant, I see the truce/unity call on rhetoric in the US has lasted all of a couple of hours.

It’s all the media’s fault, of course....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45973436

Nigelb

FrancisUrquhart said:

According to The New York Times, the Chinese are regularly listening to Donald Trump's cellphone calls.

While he has two NSA-hardened iPhones, and a secure landline, he insists on using a consumer-grade iPhone -- even while knowing he's being eavesdropped upon -- because it has his contact list on it. "White House officials say they can only hope he refrains from discussing classified information when he is on them," reports the New York Times. But, officials were also confident that "he was not spilling secrets because he rarely digs into the details of the intelligence he is shown and is not well versed in the operational specifics of military or covert activities"; in other words, security through ignorance. The article mentions the rationale is to be able to listen to his calls to find out what and whom influences him, and that the Russians also listen in, albeit with less frequency because of his unique relationship with Vladimir Putin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/us/politics/trump-phone-security.html

Sounds a pretty thankless task for any listeners.

Cyclefree

TheValiant said:

AndyJS said:

O/T

"Troubled UK café chain Patisserie Valerie on Wednesday revealed it had awarded millions of pounds of share bonuses to its two top executives without notifying shareholders.

Half of the undisclosed awards were exercised by Paul May, chief executive, and Chris Marsh, finance director, just three months before the fast-growing group suspended its shares after uncovering “significant, and potentially fraudulent” accounting irregularities. The two made £1.7m in profits on the sale of those options, exercised on July 20."

https://www.ft.com/content/074ad1d6-d771-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

I always quite like this. The 'Company' awarded its directors.... given the company is a legal fiction, who exactly awarded the two directors these bonuses? If it wasn't the shareholders, it can only have been the two directors.

Why don't they just say 'The directors wrote themselves a massive cheque and didn't tell anyone about it'?

There are some potential criminal offences hiding in plain sight in that little nugget. I expect / would hope that some inquiries are being made by the FCA of the company's advisors right now.

SouthamObserver

HYUFD said:

Jonathan said:

HYUFD said:

The economy is often pivotal eg 1979, 1987, 2001, 2010, 1974 but not always, for example even if the economy is doing well if the mood is for change and the opposition is electable it will not save the incumbent party eg 1997 while even if it is bad the government can win if the opposition is seen as worse eg 1992

The economy was growing in 97 because the government had previously taken it into the abyss and was not forgiven. It’s like losing your job, your house and then claiming a triumph because you found £5.

The Tories in 1997 left low inflation, low unemployment and a growing economy but yes the 1993 ERM crash legacy and negative equity and high interest rates were still a bad memory for many

What cost the Tories was the public squalor - an NHS in its knees, school buildings in a state of collapse, etc - and a general sense of decay after 18 years. A credible opposition made the choice easy for voters. If only we had one now.

Pulpstar

AndyJS said:

O/T

"Troubled UK café chain Patisserie Valerie on Wednesday revealed it had awarded millions of pounds of share bonuses to its two top executives without notifying shareholders.

Half of the undisclosed awards were exercised by Paul May, chief executive, and Chris Marsh, finance director, just three months before the fast-growing group suspended its shares after uncovering “significant, and potentially fraudulent” accounting irregularities. The two made £1.7m in profits on the sale of those options, exercised on July 20."

https://www.ft.com/content/074ad1d6-d771-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

If one of these two doesn't go to jail, well no-one ever will. Or perhaps (maybe in addition) I'd hope the shareholders would be able to go after these directors personally. This is a different kettle of fish to a company that goes bankrupt quickly due to a collapse in intangibles say due a complete loss of confidence in the product. Heads NEED to roll on this one, it is worse than RBS I think.

OldKingCole

TheValiant said:

AndyJS said:

O/T

"Troubled UK café chain Patisserie Valerie on Wednesday revealed it had awarded millions of pounds of share bonuses to its two top executives without notifying shareholders.

Half of the undisclosed awards were exercised by Paul May, chief executive, and Chris Marsh, finance director, just three months before the fast-growing group suspended its shares after uncovering “significant, and potentially fraudulent” accounting irregularities. The two made £1.7m in profits on the sale of those options, exercised on July 20."

https://www.ft.com/content/074ad1d6-d771-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

I always quite like this. The 'Company' awarded its directors.... given the company is a legal fiction, who exactly awarded the two directors these bonuses? If it wasn't the shareholders, it can only have been the two directors.

Why don't they just say 'The directors wrote themselves a massive cheque and didn't tell anyone about it'?

Doesn’t say much for the accountants, either. IMHO. One of the ‘Big Four’ I believe.

Cyclefree

OldKingCole said:

TheValiant said:

AndyJS said:

O/T

"Troubled UK café chain Patisserie Valerie on Wednesday revealed it had awarded millions of pounds of share bonuses to its two top executives without notifying shareholders.

Half of the undisclosed awards were exercised by Paul May, chief executive, and Chris Marsh, finance director, just three months before the fast-growing group suspended its shares after uncovering “significant, and potentially fraudulent” accounting irregularities. The two made £1.7m in profits on the sale of those options, exercised on July 20."

https://www.ft.com/content/074ad1d6-d771-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

I always quite like this. The 'Company' awarded its directors.... given the company is a legal fiction, who exactly awarded the two directors these bonuses? If it wasn't the shareholders, it can only have been the two directors.

Why don't they just say 'The directors wrote themselves a massive cheque and didn't tell anyone about it'?

Doesn’t say much for the accountants, either. IMHO. One of the ‘Big Four’ I believe.

Grant Thornton. It raises questions about the company’s in-house legal advisors and external lawyers and HR department, assuming they were informed. And if they weren’t, that raises a whole heap of other interesting questions.

Pulpstar

It sounds like this has all cost chairman (I presume founder?) Luke Johnson a packet. He should probably make the investigation independent not keep it in house though.

Cyclefree

Pulpstar said:

AndyJS said:

O/T

"Troubled UK café chain Patisserie Valerie on Wednesday revealed it had awarded millions of pounds of share bonuses to its two top executives without notifying shareholders.

Half of the undisclosed awards were exercised by Paul May, chief executive, and Chris Marsh, finance director, just three months before the fast-growing group suspended its shares after uncovering “significant, and potentially fraudulent” accounting irregularities. The two made £1.7m in profits on the sale of those options, exercised on July 20."

https://www.ft.com/content/074ad1d6-d771-11e8-ab8e-6be0dcf18713

If one of these two doesn't go to jail, well no-one ever will. Or perhaps (maybe in addition) I'd hope the shareholders would be able to go after these directors personally. This is a different kettle of fish to a company that goes bankrupt quickly due to a collapse in intangibles say due a complete loss of confidence in the product. Heads NEED to roll on this one, it is worse than RBS I think.

I know about RBS. I doubt this is worse. But it does look like a mess and I can think of a number of potential criminal offences which may have been committed.

Odd decision for the company to carry out its own internal investigation. Unless they have good experienced in-house investigators (something I doubt). I assume they are using a law firm but who is doing the in-house work? They will be potentially conflicted. As will the directors they are reporting to.

Lots more to come out I suspect.