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  • SeanT said:


    Plus the fact that soon there will be driverless electric robot buses and cars doing 80mph with zero casualties and railways might be finished altogether.

    Evening, Bulgy!
    http://ttte.wikia.com/wiki/Bulgy
  • Season 6 of house of cards is definitely the final season right?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    As suggested by @another_richard....

    https://tinyurl.com/ybxnl2s6

    HS2 could be dramatically scaled back amid public opposition to the scheme, the Transport Secretary has admitted.

    Chris Grayling said that the second phase of the line, which would connect Birmingham to Leeds, was "not in the bag".

    Then what is the fucking point in the first phase? It's such a waste of money and time. We're spending thirty billion to shave 20 minutes off the London to Birmingham railway route..

    It is literally insane. The cost of high speed rail only makes sense in large countries with scattered populations. We are a small, densely populated nation where it takes barely five hours to get from London to Edinburgh, FFS, which are about as far apart as big cities get in the UK.

    If you want to improve productivity in the UK make sure these trains, as they are, have brilliant wifi. Make sure everywhere has brilliant wifi. Build a high speed shuttle from Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool. Expand Heathrow, NOW.

    We are not China or America, we are not even France or Spain. We are small and densely populated. This is an ADVANTAGE, We don't need grandiose rail schemes. We need small clever fast urban rail.

    Plus the fact that soon there will be driverless electric robot buses and cars doing 80mph with zero casualties and railways might be finished altogether.

    Apart from that, HS2 is a brilliant idea.
    If it was a good enough idea to do, then they really should go ahead despite local public opposition. Clearly even they know it was not a good enough idea.
    Ooh, secret deals. Isn't all of this stuff secret until we hear about it?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Desperate ...

    Asia Bibi blasphemy case: Husband pleads for asylum

    Asia Bibi's husband, Ashiq Masih, said they were in great danger in Pakistan.
    On Saturday, her lawyer, Saif Mulook, fled Pakistan, saying he feared for his life.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46085577

    Islamist exceptionalism in action...
    Unfortunately it's not exceptional in Pakistan.
    Why doesn’t Britain offer her and her family asylum? After all, we did so to Malala, another victim of Islamic fundamentalists. And Asia Bibi deserves it as least as much as Malala.

    And while we’re about it, we can make clear that the cleric who praised the murder of Governor Tanweer who fought for Asia Bibi will no longer be welcome to spread his hatred on speaking tours round Britain - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/17/banned-pakistani-cleric-syed-qadri-preaching-in-britain.



  • Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Desperate ...

    Asia Bibi blasphemy case: Husband pleads for asylum

    Asia Bibi's husband, Ashiq Masih, said they were in great danger in Pakistan.
    On Saturday, her lawyer, Saif Mulook, fled Pakistan, saying he feared for his life.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46085577

    Islamist exceptionalism in action...
    Unfortunately it's not exceptional in Pakistan.
    Why doesn’t Britain offer her and her family asylum? After all, we did so to Malala, another victim of Islamic fundamentalists. And Asia Bibi deserves it as least as much as Malala.
    After all, Britain created Pakistan in the first place
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited November 2018
    Article says May has come to an agreement with the EU to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union which could pass the Commons with support from Remainer Tory MPs and Labour MPs.

    It also says the Withdrawal Agreement should enable a future FTA for Britain similar to the one Canada has with the EU.

    The EU has also accepted regulatory goods checks can take place in the market rather than at the border.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Multimillionaires in favour of the plebs trying again:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058769734504775681?s=20

    There won't be a 2nd vote. It's over now. You can feel it in the air. A deal is coming.

    These people should put away their placards and start campaigning for a REJOIN vote in the transition period or beyond. That is their only hope.

    I don't think they could win. However I can easily see a Labour government or an unnerved Tory government taking us back into the SM and CU.
    I could see a future PM Chuka Umunna taking us back into the SM certainly and maybe the CU too. The Tories will never take us back into the EU, the SM or CU, the Tory membership will never back a leader who stands for that. At most the Tories might accept the SM after a Labour PM takes us back in but they will not do it themselves.

    However if they want to keep us into the full EU they have to so before the end of March next year and Brexit day otherwise rejpining after leaving may require joining the Euro and Schengen and I cannot see British voters ever agreeing to that
    Why do you think a country can be in the SM and not the EU?
    You must be a big cake or cherry eater.
    As Norway and Iceland and effectively Switzerland and Liechtenstein too have proven it
    Partial members.
    Norway and Iceland and Liechtenstein are full members of the Single Market and European Economic Area through EFTA, Switzerland linked to the single market via bilateral agreements
    Why do they not have people making the regs of the single market then?
    Why is Norway not in the CFP and the CAP?
    Why are the not in the VAT regime?
    They do not directly make the regulations no but then Norway does not apply 25% of EU law and of course Norway stays out of the CFP which is why Cornish, Grimsby and Scottish fishermen would still be fine with being in the single market but not the full EU.
    Cornish, Grimsby and Scottish fishermen have been sold down the river already, Gove has said that he has no plans to change quotas:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/jul/06/uk-fishing-fleets-unlikely-to-gain-from-brexit-despite-goves-claims-say-experts

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    Scott_P said:
    And the price of that is?
    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Desperate ...

    Asia Bibi blasphemy case: Husband pleads for asylum

    Asia Bibi's husband, Ashiq Masih, said they were in great danger in Pakistan.
    On Saturday, her lawyer, Saif Mulook, fled Pakistan, saying he feared for his life.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46085577

    Islamist exceptionalism in action...
    Unfortunately it's not exceptional in Pakistan.
    Why doesn’t Britain offer her and her family asylum? After all, we did so to Malala, another victim of Islamic fundamentalists. And Asia Bibi deserves it as least as much as Malala.
    Seems like a no brainer, just a question of how to get them out of the country safely.

    Given the circumstances of the case as reported, there are probably a lot more who deserve and may need the same offer sadly.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited November 2018
    “ Some of the agreement could have been written by Rees-Mogg “ Sunday Times...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    HYUFD said:

    Article says May has come to an agreement with the EU to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union which could pass the Commons with support from Remainer Tory MPs and Labour MPs.
    The customs union or a customs union? And will the details of that be the interminable argument the Tories will be having in the days and weeks to come?
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says May has come to an agreement with the EU to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union which could pass the Commons with support from Remainer Tory MPs and Labour MPs.
    The customs union or a customs union? And will the details of that be the interminable argument the Tories will be having in the days and weeks to come?
    Maybe the ERG but the majority will give a collective sigh of relief
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    TGOHF said:

    “ Some of the agreement could have been written by Reese-Mogg “ Sunday Times...

    I doubt Mogg will be too happy about the UK staying in the Customs Union though
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    TGOHF said:

    “ Some of the agreement could have been written by Reese-Mogg “ Sunday Times...

    So is it Canada or CU? soon enough the box needs to be opened on schrodingers Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited November 2018
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says May has come to an agreement with the EU to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union which could pass the Commons with support from Remainer Tory MPs and Labour MPs.
    The customs union or a customs union? And will the details of that be the interminable argument the Tories will be having in the days and weeks to come?
    Either way Labour have said they will back a Withdrawal Agreement that keeps the UK in a Customs Union, despite the spin May has basically dumped Chequers for Corbyn's Brexit stance at least in terms of the Withdrawal Agreement if not the future trading relationship
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says May has come to an agreement with the EU to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union which could pass the Commons with support from Remainer Tory MPs and Labour MPs.
    The customs union or a customs union? And will the details of that be the interminable argument the Tories will be having in the days and weeks to come?
    Maybe the ERG but the majority will give a collective sigh of relief
    The majority of the Tories were never the issue, the issue was would the ERG/DUP prevent a majority in the Chamber. One can hope we can at least move on to arguing the next steps soon at least.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,074
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    And the price of that is?
    Cyclefree said:

    geoffw said:

    geoffw said:

    Desperate ...

    Asia Bibi blasphemy case: Husband pleads for asylum

    Asia Bibi's husband, Ashiq Masih, said they were in great danger in Pakistan.
    On Saturday, her lawyer, Saif Mulook, fled Pakistan, saying he feared for his life.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46085577

    Islamist exceptionalism in action...
    Unfortunately it's not exceptional in Pakistan.
    Why doesn’t Britain offer her and her family asylum? After all, we did so to Malala, another victim of Islamic fundamentalists. And Asia Bibi deserves it as least as much as Malala.
    Seems like a no brainer, just a question of how to get them out of the country safely.

    Given the circumstances of the case as reported, there are probably a lot more who deserve and may need the same offer sadly.
    Give her diplomatic protection. Make it clear to Pakistan that payment of Britain’s aid is contingent on Pakistan protecting its Cristian community.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says May has come to an agreement with the EU to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union which could pass the Commons with support from Remainer Tory MPs and Labour MPs.
    The customs union or a customs union? And will the details of that be the interminable argument the Tories will be having in the days and weeks to come?
    Either way Labour have said they will back a Withdrawal Agreement that keeps the UK in a Customs Union
    Can they still claim it does not meet their five tests (or however many there are)? Credibly doing so is less important than being able to claim so. If it looks like it will pass anyway, there's not much incentive to backing it, and backing it means they cannot keep pretending all options were, or would have been, on the table as they want.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    HYUFD said:


    I doubt Mogg will be too happy about the UK staying in the Customs Union though

    Irrelevant backbenchers can moan all they like.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Win for the DUP - no checks at the border.

    Great news for Ulster
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF said:

    “ Some of the agreement could have been written by Reese-Mogg “ Sunday Times...

    So is it Canada or CU? soon enough the box needs to be opened on schrodingers Brexit.
    Temporary customs union then Canada.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Securing concessions = caved?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited November 2018
    Suspect this deal will be an expensive can kick.

    TM will make a pitch to stay and sort out the deal..
  • RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233
    Scott_P said:
    Christ, I hope GBP gets back above $1.40. This lets-make-our-dick-bigger-by-making-the-ruler-smaller shit has gone on far too long.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
  • RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    Eur'aving a laugh!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    Well as a negotiation she has presumably by definition 'caved' on something to get something from the EU in that it was not what she said she wanted, but which means they have caved on stuff too, but a lot of people seem very confused about what a negotiation is in all this.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    TGOHF said:

    Suspect this deal will be an expensive can kick.

    TM will make a pitch to stay and sort out the deal..

    If she makes it past official Brexit day I will be stunned. But if no one else wants to sort out the deal, then the Tories will be stuck with her, since she is willing to try at least.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.

    Mrs May is the Marshal Pétain de nos jours.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545

    Anecdote department - spent a couple of hours with colleagues leafleting shoppers with post-budget Labour material in Seriously Tory Waverley (Godalming/Farnmham/Haslemere). About 30% took leaflets, often with supportive comments, though I think some of the elderly ones just didn't like to say no to my courteous Jeeves-like offer ("Good morning, madam, may I offer you a Labour Party communication?"). About 35% were affably dismissive, and the rest just wandered by in mock or genuine obliviousness.

    There's scope for an article on leaflet dynamics - e.g. if someone takes a leaflet, the probability is unusually high that the next person will, but if they refuse, the next person is almost guaranteed to refuse too (in fact you should stop offering until that group has moved on).

    I'm not convinced that this or any other leaflet will change a single mind. It's all about profile-raising and making supporters feel it's worth bothering to vote. It's also, like most human interactions, just a pleasant way to spend a morning in the sun. I now have the details of my ward in the May locals (http://www.andrewteale.me.uk/leap/ward/4591/) - time to start canvassing...

    I think leaflets can influence votes where the reader doesn't have a firmly held prior position. The floating voters that determine close elections in other words. Probably more of these in local rather than national elections.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.
    Well you should hope very much that the ERG and Labour derail it.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.

    Mrs May is the Marshal Pétain de nos jours.
    Yeah but we'll be truly free in a year and a day.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited November 2018
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Article says May has come to an agreement with the EU to keep the whole UK in the Customs Union which could pass the Commons with support from Remainer Tory MPs and Labour MPs.
    The customs union or a customs union? And will the details of that be the interminable argument the Tories will be having in the days and weeks to come?
    Either way Labour have said they will back a Withdrawal Agreement that keeps the UK in a Customs Union
    Can they still claim it does not meet their five tests (or however many there are)? Credibly doing so is less important than being able to claim so. If it looks like it will pass anyway, there's not much incentive to backing it, and backing it means they cannot keep pretending all options were, or would have been, on the table as they want.
    Corbyn's aide Andrew Murray has said Corbyn will back it provided it keeps the UK in the Customs Union which in terms of the Withdrawal Agreement it looks to do while still leaving the single market.

    So it will pass with backing from most Tory MPs and probably most Labour MPs and the DUP too given it covers the whole UK but with Mogg and the ERG almost certainly voting against because it keeps the UK in a Customs Union, probably joined by a few Labour Leavers like Field and Hoey, pro single market Labour MPs like Umunna and the pro single market SNP and LDs and maybe a few single market Tories like Soubry and Grieve and Clarke
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,084
    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    As suggested by @another_richard....

    https://tinyurl.com/ybxnl2s6

    HS2 could be dramatically scaled back amid public opposition to the scheme, the Transport Secretary has admitted.

    Chris Grayling said that the second phase of the line, which would connect Birmingham to Leeds, was "not in the bag".

    Then what is the fucking point in the first phase? It's such a waste of money and time. We're spending thirty billion to shave 20 minutes off the London to Birmingham railway route..

    It is literally insane. The cost of high speed rail only makes sense in large countries with scattered populations. We are a small, densely populated nation where it takes barely five hours to get from London to Edinburgh, FFS, which are about as far apart as big cities get in the UK.

    If you want to improve productivity in the UK make sure these trains, as they are, have brilliant wifi. Make sure everywhere has brilliant wifi. Build a high speed shuttle from Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool. Expand Heathrow, NOW.

    We are not China or America, we are not even France or Spain. We are small and densely populated. This is an ADVANTAGE, We don't need grandiose rail schemes. We need small clever fast urban rail.

    Plus the fact that soon there will be driverless electric robot buses and cars doing 80mph with zero casualties and railways might be finished altogether.

    Apart from that, HS2 is a brilliant idea.
    It's not being done to save 20 minutes on the journey, but because the existing line is full to capacity, and a new line is needed. The argument is that if you're going to build a new line we may as well get the benefit of higher speed, the alternative being to build another non-high speed line for somewhat less but still a whole load of money.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,233

    There's scope for an article on leaflet dynamics - e.g. if someone takes a leaflet, the probability is unusually high that the next person will, but if they refuse, the next person is almost guaranteed to refuse too (in fact you should stop offering until that group has moved on).

    It's a Markov Chain, Nick.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain

  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.
    Well you should hope very much that the ERG and Labour derail it.
    No Deal is best for the country long term, a bit of short term pain for long term gain is worth it.

    A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness.
  • geoffw said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.

    Mrs May is the Marshal Pétain de nos jours.
    Yeah but we'll be truly free in a year and a day.
    Did you know if you say 'oranges' very quickly it sounds a lot like 'gullible'?

    Try it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited November 2018

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.
    Well you should hope very much that the ERG and Labour derail it.
    a bit of short term pain for long term gain is worth it.
    You sound like such a Brexiteer. Some of us underestimated the length and severity of the pain. You are so confident the level of pain from your path will be worth it? If the long term gain of the EU is so obvious and inevitable it will not take chaos and pain to obtain it again, even if it will take time - after all, we did not initially want in, but realised we did in time. Perhaps the gains are not as obvious as you think, if you believe such pain is necessary to make people see it.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092
    viewcode said:

    There's scope for an article on leaflet dynamics - e.g. if someone takes a leaflet, the probability is unusually high that the next person will, but if they refuse, the next person is almost guaranteed to refuse too (in fact you should stop offering until that group has moved on).

    It's a Markov Chain, Nick.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain

    Literally a random walk.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It's a deal to stagger through the next two years. It has no purpose beyond that and it has no direction. It isn't even the Vassal State, which at least is definitive, complete and viable
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.
    Well you should hope very much that the ERG and Labour derail it.
    a bit of short term pain for long term gain is worth it.
    You sound like such a Brexiteer. Some of us underestimated the length and severity of the pain. You are so confident the level of pain from your path will be worth it?
    The more odious Leavers, which doesn't include you and many other Leavers, have pushed me to this.

    Just look at people on here that defend the cesspool that prominent backers of Leavers swim in, just look at the anti-Semitic bullshit about Soros that is pushed, and the many that condone that.

    This cancer must be removed lest it takes the whole body.

    No Deal will permanently destroy the credibility of Leavers in the way the invasion of Poland and subsequent events did for the Appeasers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited November 2018
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It's a deal to stagger through the next two years. It has no purpose beyond that
    Probably not. It'd still be a progression, and close off some options, for better and worse. The can kicking and incompetence will no doubt be able to continue for a long time, and the question of it all being worth it or not will be very bitter and ever more pressing, but it would at least get the can a little further down the road. So far we've just been kicking at the can but hitting nothing but dirt, covering ourselves in dust without ever moving the damn can.

    Also there's a lorry headed straight for us, so should probably hit the damn can and then get off the damn road already, at least for a bit.

    If you follow me #mixedmetaphors.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,092

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.
    Well you should hope very much that the ERG and Labour derail it.
    a bit of short term pain for long term gain is worth it.
    You sound like such a Brexiteer. Some of us underestimated the length and severity of the pain. You are so confident the level of pain from your path will be worth it?
    The more odious Leavers, which doesn't include you and many other Leavers, have pushed me to this.

    Just look at people on here that defend the cesspool that prominent backers of Leavers swim in, just look at the anti-Semitic bullshit about Soros that is pushed, and the many that condone that.

    This cancer must be removed lest it takes the whole body.

    No Deal will permanently destroy the credibility of Leavers in the way the invasion of Poland and subsequent events did for the Appeasers.
    The usual hyperbollox from you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.
    Well you should hope very much that the ERG and Labour derail it.
    a bit of short term pain for long term gain is worth it.
    You sound like such a Brexiteer. Some of us underestimated the length and severity of the pain. You are so confident the level of pain from your path will be worth it?
    The more odious Leavers, which doesn't include you and many other Leavers, have pushed me to this.

    Just look at people on here that defend the cesspool that prominent backers of Leavers swim in, just look at the anti-Semitic bullshit about Soros that is pushed, and the many that condone that.

    This cancer must be removed lest it takes the whole body.

    No Deal will permanently destroy the credibility of Leavers in the way the invasion of Poland and subsequent events did for the Appeasers.
    Well if it should come to no deal I hope it proves as cleansing as you desire - but I'm not optimistic it would.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It's a deal to stagger through the next two years. It has no purpose beyond that and it has no direction. It isn't even the Vassal State, which at least is definitive, complete and viable
    Doesn't it cover future relations in a whole range of areas? I don't think it's term-limited.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It's a deal to stagger through the next two years. It has no purpose beyond that and it has no direction. It isn't even the Vassal State, which at least is definitive, complete and viable
    Doesn't it cover future relations in a whole range of areas? I don't think it's term-limited.
    No doubt it will promise the world and in 2 years we will be stuck with a floater that won’t flush.

  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547
    I think the clue comes toward the end of the first column - "Downing Street officials (ie TM) are desperate to see enough progress this week for the EU to announce a special summit..."

    So they are trying to create the impression that there is progress in order to bounce the EU into agreeing the summit.

    The "major concession" that it is alleged the EU has made - checks on goods "in the market" and not at the border is not new - it was announced before the Brussels summit, and rejected by the DUP.

    Reading the detail in the article it does not seem to differ from the plan May previously rejected except that there is now an "exit clause" - this might or might not be a concession by the EU, but it seems very unlikely that it would allow a unilateral exit by the UK given the EU, and Ireland's, previous pronouncements on this subject. And if it does not allow a unilateral exit then the threat of the EU imposing a border between NI and GB remains.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited November 2018

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It is vassal statehood in all but name.
    Well you should hope very much that the ERG and Labour derail it.
    a bit of short term pain for long term gain is worth it.
    You sound like such a Brexiteer. Some of us underestimated the length and severity of the pain. You are so confident the level of pain from your path will be worth it?
    The more odious Leavers, which doesn't include you and many other Leavers, have pushed me to this.

    Just look at people on here that defend the cesspool that prominent backers of Leavers swim in, just look at the anti-Semitic bullshit about Soros that is pushed, and the many that condone that.

    This cancer must be removed lest it takes the whole body.

    No Deal will permanently destroy the credibility of Leavers in the way the invasion of Poland and subsequent events did for the Appeasers.
    You are now officially an EU fanatic, desperately hoping for No Deal so we eventually sign back up to the full EU, Eurozone and all.

    Is there any more doubt TSE is really a LD?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    IanB2 said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    As suggested by @another_richard....

    https://tinyurl.com/ybxnl2s6

    HS2 could be dramatically scaled back amid public opposition to the scheme, the Transport Secretary has admitted.

    Chris Grayling said that the second phase of the line, which would connect Birmingham to Leeds, was "not in the bag".

    Then what is the fucking point in the first phase? It's such a waste of money and time. We're spending thirty billion to shave 20 minutes off the London to Birmingham railway route..

    It is literally insane. The cost of high speed rail only makes sense in large countries with scattered populations. We are a small, densely populated nation where it takes barely five hours to get from London to Edinburgh, FFS, which are about as far apart as big cities get in the UK.

    If you want to improve productivity in the UK make sure these trains, as they are, have brilliant wifi. Make sure everywhere has brilliant wifi. Build a high speed shuttle from Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool. Expand Heathrow, NOW.

    We are not China or America, we are not even France or Spain. We are small and densely populated. This is an ADVANTAGE, We don't need grandiose rail schemes. We need small clever fast urban rail.

    Plus the fact that soon there will be driverless electric robot buses and cars doing 80mph with zero casualties and railways might be finished altogether.

    Apart from that, HS2 is a brilliant idea.
    It's not being done to save 20 minutes on the journey, but because the existing line is full to capacity, and a new line is needed. The argument is that if you're going to build a new line we may as well get the benefit of higher speed, the alternative being to build another non-high speed line for somewhat less but still a whole load of money.
    I would take a different view. If you are going to have a new line, put some stations on it so people can get on and off! A conventional speed line is cheaper, greener, quieter and allows creation of some new towns centrered on those stations.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It's a deal to stagger through the next two years. It has no purpose beyond that and it has no direction. It isn't even the Vassal State, which at least is definitive, complete and viable
    Doesn't it cover future relations in a whole range of areas? I don't think it's term-limited.
    Not really. Based on the reports, it contains the permanent NI backstop that according to the UK will never kick in and a supposedly temporary "bare bones" (whatever that means) customs union for GB excluding NI. NI will have a "deep" relationship with the EU, with apparently no new checks in the Irish Sea, and also supposedly temporary.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Looks like the Greens could be in first place in Germany before too long. Two polls today put them within 5%.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 113,969
    edited November 2018
    HYUFD said:


    You are now officially an EU fanatic, desperately hoping for No Deal so we eventually sign back up to the full EU, Eurozone and all.

    Is there any more doubt TSE is really a LD?

    Don't be a dolt.

    I'm espousing the kind of Pro European policies that Mrs Thatcher delivered when she was PM.

    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    Plus you were the one espousing LD policies recently about how you wanted to stop Brexit to protect the Union.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723
    I see she is ignoring her own red lines and signing up to Jezzas BREXIT
  • AndyJS said:

    Looks like the Greens could be in first place in Germany before too long. Two polls today put them within 5%.

    When's the next major German election?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:


    You are now officially an EU fanatic, desperately hoping for No Deal so we eventually sign back up to the full EU, Eurozone and all.

    Is there any more doubt TSE is really a LD?

    Don't be a dolt.

    I'm espousing the kind of Pro European policies that Mrs Thatcher delivered when she was PM.

    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    Plus you were the one espousing LD policies recently about how you wanted to stop Brexit to protect the Union.
    Did Mrs Thatcher ever advocate joining the Euro? No.

    I wanted to stop No Deal Brexit to protect the Union as befits a member of a Unionist Party, I am fine with Deal Brexit
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069
    edited November 2018
    Interesting stat from The Hill.

    40% turnout already in Texas. I have a tenner on Beto, surely no one is that passionate for Cruz?

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1058857613679566849?s=19
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    You are now officially an EU fanatic, desperately hoping for No Deal so we eventually sign back up to the full EU, Eurozone and all.

    Is there any more doubt TSE is really a LD?

    Don't be a dolt.

    I'm espousing the kind of Pro European policies that Mrs Thatcher delivered when she was PM.

    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    Plus you were the one espousing LD policies recently about how you wanted to stop Brexit to protect the Union.
    Did Mrs Thatcher ever advocate joining the Euro? No.

    I wanted to stop No Deal Brexit to protect the Union as befits a member of a Unionist Party, I am fine with Deal Brexit
    Where in my post have I advocated joining the Euro?

    I haven’t.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408

    I see she is ignoring her own red lines and signing up to Jezzas BREXIT

    So you will support Labour backing it in the Commons? No reason to vote it down if it is the Brexit he advocates.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited November 2018
    AndyJS said:

    Looks like the Greens could be in first place in Germany before too long. Two polls today put them within 5%.

    The CDU also up 1% though and they are unlikely to overtake the CDU/CSU.

    It does look likely the next centre left Chancellor in Germany will be from the Greens rather than the SPD though
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    HYUFD said:


    You are now officially an EU fanatic, desperately hoping for No Deal so we eventually sign back up to the full EU, Eurozone and all.

    Is there any more doubt TSE is really a LD?

    Don't be a dolt.

    I'm espousing the kind of Pro European policies that Mrs Thatcher delivered when she was PM.

    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    Plus you were the one espousing LD policies recently about how you wanted to stop Brexit to protect the Union.
    By European you mean EU.

    That’s the difference between you and Mrs T.

    She saw it as a buffer against the Soviets. You see it as a gravy teet to be sucked.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Securing concessions = caved?
    This is Theresa May, she'll screw it up somehow.

    Probably the price for this concession is the UK signing up to the single currency.
    I'm cautiously optimistic we're heading towards a reasonable deal.
    It's a deal to stagger through the next two years. It has no purpose beyond that and it has no direction. It isn't even the Vassal State, which at least is definitive, complete and viable
    Doesn't it cover future relations in a whole range of areas? I don't think it's term-limited.
    Not really. Based on the reports, it contains the permanent NI backstop that according to the UK will never kick in and a supposedly temporary "bare bones" (whatever that means) customs union for GB excluding NI. NI will have a "deep" relationship with the EU, with apparently no new checks in the Irish Sea, and also supposedly temporary.
    The point is, this is a mish mash that the parties might just sign up to in the absence of alternatives and if they are so fed up with Brexit they lose the will to do anything else.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    I see she is ignoring her own red lines and signing up to Jezzas BREXIT

    Between that and tuition fees she seems to be busy ticking off items in Jezzas manifesto. If only she would put an end to austerity...

  • Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    "Conservatism is not some abstract theory. It's a crusade to put power in the hands of ordinary people."
    - M. H. Thatcher, 1986
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    You are now officially an EU fanatic, desperately hoping for No Deal so we eventually sign back up to the full EU, Eurozone and all.

    Is there any more doubt TSE is really a LD?

    Don't be a dolt.

    I'm espousing the kind of Pro European policies that Mrs Thatcher delivered when she was PM.

    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    Plus you were the one espousing LD policies recently about how you wanted to stop Brexit to protect the Union.
    Did Mrs Thatcher ever advocate joining the Euro? No.

    I wanted to stop No Deal Brexit to protect the Union as befits a member of a Unionist Party, I am fine with Deal Brexit
    Where in my post have I advocated joining the Euro?

    I haven’t.
    You have consistently said how amusing you would find it if we ultimately end up in the Euro after Brexit
  • PlankPlank Posts: 71
    Foxy said:

    Interesting stat from The Hill.

    40% turnout already in Texas. I have a tenner on Beto, surely no one is that passionate for Cruz?

    There is some evidence from Nevada that the Dems are building a firewall through early voting.

    https://thenevadaindependent.com/article/the-early-voting-blog
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Looks like the Greens could be in first place in Germany before too long. Two polls today put them within 5%.

    When's the next major German election?
    I think this is right:

    Bremen & Euro election: 26th May 2019
    Brandenburg: 1st Sep 2019
    Saxony: 1st Sep 2019
    Thuringia: 27th Oct 2019

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Germany#State_elections_in_the_Federal_Republic_of_Germany
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069


    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    "Conservatism is not some abstract theory. It's a crusade to put power in the hands of ordinary people."
    - M. H. Thatcher, 1986
    Another advocate for a #peoplesvote :)
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:


    You are now officially an EU fanatic, desperately hoping for No Deal so we eventually sign back up to the full EU, Eurozone and all.

    Is there any more doubt TSE is really a LD?

    Don't be a dolt.

    I'm espousing the kind of Pro European policies that Mrs Thatcher delivered when she was PM.

    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    Plus you were the one espousing LD policies recently about how you wanted to stop Brexit to protect the Union.
    Did Mrs Thatcher ever advocate joining the Euro? No.

    I wanted to stop No Deal Brexit to protect the Union as befits a member of a Unionist Party, I am fine with Deal Brexit
    Where in my post have I advocated joining the Euro?

    I haven’t.
    You have consistently said how amusing you would find it if we ultimately end up in the Euro after Brexit
    Amusing yes but I’m not advocating it.

  • I'm espousing the kind of Pro European policies that Mrs Thatcher delivered when she was PM.

    ".it is ironic that just when those countries such as the Soviet Union, which have tried to run everything from the centre, are learning that success depends on dispersing power and decisions away from the centre, there are some in the Community who seem to want to move in the opposite direction. We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level with a European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels. "
    - M. H. Thatcher, 1988.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited November 2018

    I see she is ignoring her own red lines and signing up to Jezzas BREXIT

    May announces the end of austerity, tuition fees to be cut from £9000 to £6000 according to the Times this weekend, Brexit to be on Corbyn's terms it seems with the UK staying in a Customs Union. Maybe Jezza did win the 2017 GE after all?
  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    Looks like the Greens could be in first place in Germany before too long. Two polls today put them within 5%.

    When's the next major German election?
    I think this is right:

    Bremen & Euro election: 26th May 2019
    Brandenburg: 1st Sep 2019
    Saxony: 1st Sep 2019
    Thuringia: 27th Oct 2019

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Germany#State_elections_in_the_Federal_Republic_of_Germany
    Thanks.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547


    Are you saying she's not a Tory?

    "Conservatism is not some abstract theory. It's a crusade to put power in the hands of ordinary people."
    - M. H. Thatcher, 1986
    But she vehemently opposed the use of referendums - "tools of dictators and demagogues".

  • daodaodaodao Posts: 821
    edited November 2018
    IanB2 said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    As suggested by @another_richard....

    https://tinyurl.com/ybxnl2s6

    HS2 could be dramatically scaled back amid public opposition to the scheme, the Transport Secretary has admitted.

    Chris Grayling said that the second phase of the line, which would connect Birmingham to Leeds, was "not in the bag".

    Then what is the fucking point in the first phase? It's such a waste of money and time. We're spending thirty billion to shave 20 minutes off the London to Birmingham railway route..

    It is literally insane. The cost of high speed rail only makes sense in large countries with scattered populations. We are a small, densely populated nation where it takes barely five hours to get from London to Edinburgh, FFS, which are about as far apart as big cities get in the UK.

    If you want to improve productivity in the UK make sure these trains, as they are, have brilliant wifi. Make sure everywhere has brilliant wifi. Build a high speed shuttle from Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool. Expand Heathrow, NOW.

    We are not China or America, we are not even France or Spain. We are small and densely populated. This is an ADVANTAGE, We don't need grandiose rail schemes. We need small clever fast urban rail.

    Plus the fact that soon there will be driverless electric robot buses and cars doing 80mph with zero casualties and railways might be finished altogether.

    Apart from that, HS2 is a brilliant idea.
    It's not being done to save 20 minutes on the journey, but because the existing line is full to capacity, and a new line is needed. The argument is that if you're going to build a new line we may as well get the benefit of higher speed, the alternative being to build another non-high speed line for somewhat less but still a whole load of money.
    The only rail lines that are full to capacity that HS2 would relieve are those from London to Birmingham and Crewe. North of Crewe, routes divide, for example the proposed HS2 line from Crewe to Manchester is not likely to have more than 3 trains per hour and would be an white elephant, destroying Cheshire countryside and requiring an expensive tunnel from Ringway airport to Manchester city centre. Likewise the eastern arm, which would bypass Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield en route to Leeds. At most, HS2 trains could run via Derby to Sheffield, leaving the Nottingham service to run from St Pancras and that to Leeds from King's X.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    Foxy said:

    Interesting stat from The Hill.

    40% turnout already in Texas. I have a tenner on Beto, surely no one is that passionate for Cruz?

    I don’t think he’s got much of a chance - although I find it fairly inexplicable that anyone would vote for Cruz, let alone express passion.

    This is just weird bullshit...
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/beto-orourke-and-ted-cruz-in-the-final-stretch-of-the-texas-senate-race
    Cruz concluded his remarks by laying out two possible paths for the country. An “alpha world,” where Republicans hold their majority in the Senate and the House and keep cutting taxes, repealing regulations, and appointing more “constitutionalist judges” to the court, with the result that “wages go up, prosperity goes up”; or the “Beto world,” which would be “a world of paralysis and mob rule” and “an absolute partisan circus, and when we say partisan circus we’re talking Mad Max at Thunderdome, with Beto in the role of Tina Turner.”...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Foxy said:

    I see she is ignoring her own red lines and signing up to Jezzas BREXIT

    Between that and tuition fees she seems to be busy ticking off items in Jezzas manifesto. If only she would put an end to austerity...
    Yet still we continue to rack up debt.....

  • I don't think the Sunday Times stuff tells us anything we didn't know about the shape of the deal. It does however tell us #1 That Downing St is now proactively briefing on the shape of the deal #2 That they are already struggling with that. While it technically is an EU concession to put a CU in the WA most Leave Tory backbenchers won't see it as one as they conflate concessions with things they want.

    However the central dynamic remains. If you need both ( a) A Backstop ( b ) a Backstop that the DUP can back then that = Soft Brexit on an All UK basis. I'm not sure the ERG sorts who were weaponising the DUP a few weeks ago realised that.

    The politics remain unchanged. We kniw a Deal is there. It's what happens domestically when the wave function collapses on Brexit and MPs have to troop through the lobby for an actual thing which will be neither Remain nor a Unicorn.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,697
    I think Theresa might just have cracked it! :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited November 2018
    Canvassing with Joe Biden ahead of the midterms


    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1058854002102808576
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    There are a number of candidates who would almost certainly defeat Trump in 2020 in my opinion. The problem is I'm not confident the Democrats will select any of them.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    viewcode said:

    There's scope for an article on leaflet dynamics - e.g. if someone takes a leaflet, the probability is unusually high that the next person will, but if they refuse, the next person is almost guaranteed to refuse too (in fact you should stop offering until that group has moved on).

    It's a Markov Chain, Nick.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markov_chain

    Nice - yes!
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Floater said:

    Foxy said:

    I see she is ignoring her own red lines and signing up to Jezzas BREXIT

    Between that and tuition fees she seems to be busy ticking off items in Jezzas manifesto. If only she would put an end to austerity...
    Yet still we continue to rack up debt.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O040xuq2FR0
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,263
    HYUFD said:

    I see she is ignoring her own red lines and signing up to Jezzas BREXIT

    May announces the end of austerity, tuition fees to be cut from £9000 to £6000 according to the Times this weekend, Brexit to be on Corbyn's terms it seems with the UK staying in a Customs Union. Maybe Jezza did win the 2017 GE after all?
    Entertaining thought!

    My initial reading is that the key issue for everyone is going to be the permanence or otherwise of the customs union. Labour's position is that it needs to be permanent; the ERG position is that it must be time-limited. May is squaring the circle by providing an *option* to exit from it, which the UK can unilaterally choose to do. However, if we do, the Irish border issue springs back into life, so in practice I'd guess we won't. Will the ERG be happy with a freedom to exercise a choice that won't be exercised? Or will Labour MPs support a customs union that could be broken but won't be?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880



    My initial reading is that the key issue for everyone is going to be the permanence or otherwise of the customs union. Labour's position is that it needs to be permanent; the ERG position is that it must be time-limited. May is squaring the circle by providing an *option* to exit from it, which the UK can unilaterally choose to do. However, if we do, the Irish border issue springs back into life, so in practice I'd guess we won't. Will the ERG be happy with a freedom to exercise a choice that won't be exercised? Or will Labour MPs support a customs union that could be broken but won't be?

    I am so glad I am no longer a British citizen. This mess taints all involved.
  • AndyJS said:

    There are a number of candidates who would almost certainly defeat Trump in 2020 in my opinion. The problem is I'm not confident the Democrats will select any of them.

    Names?
  • HYUFD said:

    Canvassing with Joe Biden ahead of the midterms


    https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1058854002102808576

    He's running, and I'm on at 28
  • daodao said:

    IanB2 said:

    SeanT said:

    tlg86 said:

    As suggested by @another_richard....

    https://tinyurl.com/ybxnl2s6

    HS2 could be dramatically scaled back amid public opposition to the scheme, the Transport Secretary has admitted.

    Chris Grayling said that the second phase of the line, which would connect Birmingham to Leeds, was "not in the bag".

    Then what is the fucking point in the first phase? It's such a waste of money and time. We're spending thirty billion to shave 20 minutes off the London to Birmingham railway route..

    It is literally insane. The cost of high speed rail only makes sense in large countries with scattered populations. We are a small, densely populated nation where it takes barely five hours to get from London to Edinburgh, FFS, which are about as far apart as big cities get in the UK.

    If you want to improve productivity in the UK make sure these trains, as they are, have brilliant wifi. Make sure everywhere has brilliant wifi. Build a high speed shuttle from Leeds-Manchester-Liverpool. Expand Heathrow, NOW.

    We are not China or America, we are not even France or Spain. We are small and densely populated. This is an ADVANTAGE, We don't need grandiose rail schemes. We need small clever fast urban rail.

    Plus the fact that soon there will be driverless electric robot buses and cars doing 80mph with zero casualties and railways might be finished altogether.

    Apart from that, HS2 is a brilliant idea.
    It's not being done to save 20 minutes on the journey, but because the existing line is full to capacity, and a new line is needed. The argument is that if you're going to build a new line we may as well get the benefit of higher speed, the alternative being to build another non-high speed line for somewhat less but still a whole load of money.
    The only rail lines that are full to capacity that HS2 would relieve are those from London to Birmingham and Crewe. North of Crewe, routes divide, for example the proposed HS2 line from Crewe to Manchester is not likely to have more than 3 trains per hour and would be an white elephant, destroying Cheshire countryside and requiring an expensive tunnel from Ringway airport to Manchester city centre. Likewise the eastern arm, which would bypass Derby, Nottingham and Sheffield en route to Leeds. At most, HS2 trains could run via Derby to Sheffield, leaving the Nottingham service to run from St Pancras and that to Leeds from King's X.
    Call me a cynic - but why is Grayling saying these things now?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2018
    HS2 was a good idea when it meant you could get on a train in Manchester or Leeds and not move from your coach until you arrived in Paris or Amsterdam. But since they decided not to annoy Camden residents by connecting up the two branches at St Pancras it doesn't seem like such a good idea.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    There are a number of candidates who would almost certainly defeat Trump in 2020 in my opinion. The problem is I'm not confident the Democrats will select any of them.

    Names?
    Joe Biden and Michael Bloomberg are the main ones I was thinking of.
  • AndyJS said:

    AndyJS said:

    There are a number of candidates who would almost certainly defeat Trump in 2020 in my opinion. The problem is I'm not confident the Democrats will select any of them.

    Names?
    Joe Biden and Michael Bloomberg are the main ones I was thinking of.
    Biden is older than Methuselah Donald Trump and has crashed and burned in two previous campaigns, while Bloomberg has only been a Democrat for about five minutes. As a shortlist of famous people who aren't Hillary Clinton, it has much to commend it but surely more plausible candidates will emerge.
This discussion has been closed.