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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Alastair Meeks reviews the next Labour leader betting

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  • Options
    Mr. Alistair, that's an old story. It's still dumb, of course, but was first brought to light months ago, if not earlier.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509

    Confused. How has Brussels conceded anything if the UK stays in the customs union? Whilst accepting all the constraints, right?
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509


    A customs union or the customs union? :)
  • Options
    Mr. Booth, well, quite.

    The line will be "It isn't NI-only. Hooray!"

    That much is true. But voting to leave the EU then keeping us in the customs union is just demented. As I've said for years now, the customs union is the only hard red line I think there should be. Wide spectrum of options beyond that.
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    tlg86 said:

    Former cabinet secretary Jeremy Heywood has died.

    In harness almost to the end - he must have been more ill than he or presumably his Doctors knew.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,578
    edited November 2018
    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
  • Options

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509

    Confused. How has Brussels conceded anything if the UK stays in the customs union? Whilst accepting all the constraints, right?
    A customs union, not the customs union.
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    Mr. Eagles, ha. We'll see if that's a real difference or one of those brilliant Constitution/Lisbon Treaty differences that absolutely fools everyone and doesn't cause any resentment at all.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045

    tlg86 said:

    Former cabinet secretary Jeremy Heywood has died.

    Blimey, I knew he was ill but didn't realise it was that serious.
    He emailed all civil servants when he stood down a week ago. I assumed it was bad but didn't expect something so soon.
  • Options

    Mr. Alistair, that's an old story. It's still dumb, of course, but was first brought to light months ago, if not earlier.

    24 months....almost to the day.....
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,560

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    The Tories keenness for another female leader hasn't exactly been a triumph.

    Well they are still ahead of Jezza in the polls and Brexit is going fucking mega. There is going to be "adequate food" apparently.
    All the stuff about starving brits and no medicine was bullshit.
    It was clearly put about by closet Leavers who want to make the reality of 30th March appear less difficult. So much of politics is managing expectations.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487

    Mr. Booth, well, quite.

    The line will be "It isn't NI-only. Hooray!"

    That much is true. But voting to leave the EU then keeping us in the customs union is just demented. As I've said for years now, the customs union is the only hard red line I think there should be. Wide spectrum of options beyond that.


    The only red line you should focus on is the one drawn along the middle of the River Foyle, if the extremists get their way.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,045

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509

    Confused. How has Brussels conceded anything if the UK stays in the customs union? Whilst accepting all the constraints, right?
    A customs union, not the customs union.
    Since Cameron's renegotiation got laughed out of town I can't imagine the mirth that will be reserved for this.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,694

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509

    Confused. How has Brussels conceded anything if the UK stays in the customs union? Whilst accepting all the constraints, right?
    Brussels indicates it will accept a customs union in principle, subject to conditions to be agreed . As the Sunday Times article is an exercise in UK government spin which aims to present the Exit Deal as a fait accompli, we can be sure those conditions are whatever the EU decides them to be.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    tlg86 said:

    Former cabinet secretary Jeremy Heywood has died.

    In harness almost to the end - he must have been more ill than he or presumably his Doctors knew.
    Do we know which cancer took him? If it was, for example, pancreatic could have been extremely swift.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
    It looks like a forgery to me. Why would a one-off, ad hoc question like this be inserted in a standard form questionnaire? Why aren't we shown the whole document so that we can see the context, and the document heading?
  • Options

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509

    Confused. How has Brussels conceded anything if the UK stays in the customs union? Whilst accepting all the constraints, right?
    A customs union, not the customs union.
    Since Cameron's renegotiation got laughed out of town I can't imagine the mirth that will be reserved for this.
    Then like Morris Dancer you know nothing about what you talk of.

    Turkey is in a customs union with the EU but not in the customs union, you can see how it works.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
    It looks like a forgery to me. Why would a one-off, ad hoc question like this be inserted in a standard form questionnaire? Why aren't we shown the whole document so that we can see the context, and the document heading?
    There’s a MEN story which suggests it happened to someone else, who sensibly commented that if the person who was confused between Greek and Hellenic could get a job at Manchester Council there was hope for everyone!
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
    It looks like a forgery to me. Why would a one-off, ad hoc question like this be inserted in a standard form questionnaire? Why aren't we shown the whole document so that we can see the context, and the document heading?
    The framing and cropping of the photograph are suspicious.

    The alleged recipient (George Zacharopoulos) appears to be a professional stand-up comedian.

    There is enough there to set alarm bells ringing.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    edited November 2018
    Interesting Rawnsley piece.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-labour-stagecoach-has-hit-a-bump-and-got-stuck-in-a-rut?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Rawnsley is right when he says McDonnell is better at maths than Corbyn. He's spot on with this:

    "The shadow chancellor will go and talk to business audiences, and even seems to relish the experience, while the Labour leader remains as allergic as always to engaging with any group that might take him out of his ideological comfort zone. The shadow chancellor is more palpably hungry for power. He believes they have a once-in-a-generation chance to form the sort of radical left government that they have spent decades dreaming about and that goal should be their relentless focus."


    Where Rawnsley is wrong (and probably distracted by his stagecoach analogy) when he says
    "But that manifesto gets more whiskery with each passing day... Should Corbyn Labour largely stand pat or should it prepare an even more leftwing offer for the next time the British people are asked to choose a government? " "Just as Harold Wilson predicted, when the stagecoach stops rattling along, everybody gets out and argues about where to go next."

    There is no evidence for that "argument" at all. The fact that Yvette Cooper voted against McDonnell's support for the raising of the tax threshold for higher earners does not indicate that Yvette wants a more left-wing manifesto than McDonnell! It indicates that McDonnell is giving very careful thought to how Labour might win the next election whereas Yvette is voting with her heart.

    With McDonnell pulling the strings, Labour will be formidable at the next election. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell persuades Corbyn to resign before the next election (if it's in 2022) for the greater good.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:


    The other potential issue is the increasingly apocalyptic environmental news. More or less every day now we gets reports straight out of dystopian sci fi. A radical candidate could also draw in the kind of sign up surge that Corbyn generated.

    I think this is driven significantly by the need to 'Green' organisations to justify their continued existence, and by a media need for apocalyptic headlines. Think about it - eg if Greenpeace were to accept that the world is rapidly 'greening' (which it is - especially in Europe and in Europe especially in the UK), then no need for Greenpeace.

    Looking at the numbers, the UK is well ahead of our targets for eg GHG reduction.

    Ony two sectors of the economy have done noticeably poorly in reductions - transport and housing. The only real caveat here is exported emissions from eg outsourcing...

    Transport will be heavily influenced by Electrics. Housing requires Owner Occupiers in old stock to get off their bottoms. I think we need a significant rise in energy prices, which would happen a few years were it all to be nationalised again...
    Some of us were under the impression that we are already experiencing a significant rise in energy prices (electricity prices are up about 30% over the last year).
    I think your impression may be an outlier(?)

    According to the latest official stats Q2 2017 to Q2 2018 was +3.4% for domestic energy, and electricity was about +5%.


    • The price paid for all domestic fuels in real terms has risen by 3.4 per cent in the year to
    Q2 2018. Between Q2 2017 and Q2 2018, real terms prices including VAT for domestic
    electricity increased by 4.8 per cent and domestic gas prices rose slightly by 0.3 per cent.
    • The average standard electricity bill in 2017, across all payment types has increased by
    £33 (5.7 per cent) since 2017, from £586 to £619. However, the average 2017 gas bill
    across all payment types has decreased by £20 (3.1 per cent), from £650 to £630. These
    bills are based on standard consumptions of 3,800kWh per year for electricity and
    15,000kWh per year for gas.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/743709/QEP_Q2_2018.pdf
    Mine have gone up nearer 40%, so I don't know why the overall rate of rise is so very low.

    Edit - in fact, I do know, they went up at the start of July so just missed the cutoff for that report.
    Thanks for that. I suspect 40% is still an outlier. Most rises where they have risen are about a quarter of that.
    https://www.ukpower.co.uk/home_energy/future-gas-electricity-price-forecast
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    edited November 2018

    Trouble in paradise.

    Seb Corbyn, the son of the Labour leader, has been dragged into a bitter power struggle between the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, and his father’s office, which erupted last week in acrimony over Labour’s response to the budget.

    Sources say Jeremy Corbyn is hurt that his son’s role for McDonnell has been downgraded from chief of staff after an influx of hard-left advisers into the shadow chancellor’s team.

    McDonnell sparked anger among Corbyn’s team last week by stating publicly that Labour would not oppose the government’s plans to raise income tax thresholds in the budget.

    That line was contradicted by Corbyn’s spokesman and by tweets emanating from the Labour press office. Shadow cabinet members openly questioned why Labour was supporting a tax cut for those earning more than £50,000.

    The incident revealed tensions between McDonnell, who is determined to do what it takes to win the next election, and some around Corbyn, who have prioritised ideological purity.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/seb-corbyn-demoted-as-dad-feuds-with-john-mcdonnell-7nldkwz50

    The Times rivals the Mail as Anti-Corbyn Central, but the article makes no sense. McDonnell is simultaneously recruiting more hard-left advisers and rejecting ideological purity to maximise the chance of winning? Duh. And much though I like Jeremy, I think the probability of his putting paternal loyalty ahead of political belief is zero.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:


    The other potential issue is the increasingly apocalyptic environmental news. More or less every day now we gets reports straight out of dystopian sci fi. A radical candidate could also draw in the kind of sign up surge that Corbyn generated.

    Ony two sectors of the economy have done noticeably poorly in reductions - transport and housing. The only real caveat here is exported emissions from eg outsourcing...

    Transport will be heavily influenced by Electrics. Housing requires Owner Occupiers in old stock to get off their bottoms. I think we need a significant rise in energy prices, which would happen a few years were it all to be nationalised again...
    Some of us were under the impression that we are already experiencing a significant rise in energy prices (electricity prices are up about 30% over the last year).
    I think your impression may be an outlier(?)

    According to the latest official stats Q2 2017 to Q2 2018 was +3.4% for domestic energy, and electricity was about +5%.


    • The price paid for all domestic fuels in real terms has risen by 3.4 per cent in the year to
    Q2 2018. Between Q2 2017 and Q2 2018, real terms prices including VAT for domestic
    electricity increased by 4.8 per cent and domestic gas prices rose slightly by 0.3 per cent.
    • The average standard electricity bill in 2017, across all payment types has increased by
    £33 (5.7 per cent) since 2017, from £586 to £619. However, the average 2017 gas bill
    across all payment types has decreased by £20 (3.1 per cent), from £650 to £630. These
    bills are based on standard consumptions of 3,800kWh per year for electricity and
    15,000kWh per year for gas.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/743709/QEP_Q2_2018.pdf
    Mine have gone up nearer 40%, so I don't know why the overall rate of rise is so very low.

    Edit - in fact, I do know, they went up at the start of July so just missed the cutoff for that report.
    Yes, the bulk of the rise in wholesale prices has come over the last six months - and remember that domestic prices lag the wholesale market.
    Much of that is accounted for by the rise in wholesale gas prices (which provide the bulk of our non-renewable elelctricity), and the drop in the pound over the last six months.

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited November 2018

    Mr. Alistair, that's an old story. It's still dumb, of course, but was first brought to light months ago, if not earlier.

    To be honest I wondered if it was a fake but I'm a gullible idiot so posted it anyways.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Jonathan said:

    There have been 28 Tory prime ministers and 6 Labour prime ministers. The Tories elected a woman on the 25th and 28th go. If Labour get to double figures, which they may not, I suspect they will have caught up.

    I think it's fair to compare the parties across the period both have been in existence only, but I do think some Tories are little over the top in mocking labour for not yet having a female leader. There are so many high profile women in labour that it will happen at some point and while electing someone purely because its time for a woman leader is bloody stupid I really don't get the feeling there's no chance a woman could win.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:

    I thought it was rather insensitive of Sophy Ridge to tell her live on air. I’m increasingly concerned about the way we publicise bereavement and grief in this country.
    Me too.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Scott_P said:
    Nelson’s not exactly Nostradamus.
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
    That’s what happens when you recruit from ex-polys.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    malcolmg said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lisa Nandy would be the best choice, by far. That means you can forget about her. Cooper is out because she is also smart and, unforgiveably, sat in the last Labour cabinet. Thornberry is a bit too transparent in her ambition for many on the left: they think, rightly, that her support for Jeremy is tactical rather than convinced. From time to time, she also says mildly positive things about Israel. I have a horrible feeling that when the day eventually arrives, it will be Laura Pidcock who gets the job.

    Agree, Lisa Nandy and Yvette Cooper would both be excellent choices.
    Both useless no hopers, what a state this country is in when people suggest this is the top talent to run the country. We really are well and truly f****d.
    Any options you think would be palatable if unlikely?
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    FF43 said:

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509

    Confused. How has Brussels conceded anything if the UK stays in the customs union? Whilst accepting all the constraints, right?
    Brussels indicates it will accept a customs union in principle, subject to conditions to be agreed . As the Sunday Times article is an exercise in UK government spin which aims to present the Exit Deal as a fait accompli, we can be sure those conditions are whatever the EU decides them to be.

    It genuinely puzzles me why anyone would think it might be otherwise.

  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Rawnsley piece.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-labour-stagecoach-has-hit-a-bump-and-got-stuck-in-a-rut?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Rawnsley is right when he says McDonnell is better at maths than Corbyn. He's spot on with this:

    "The shadow chancellor will go and talk to business audiences, and even seems to relish the experience, while the Labour leader remains as allergic as always to engaging with any group that might take him out of his ideological comfort zone. The shadow chancellor is more palpably hungry for power. He believes they have a once-in-a-generation chance to form the sort of radical left government that they have spent decades dreaming about and that goal should be their relentless focus."


    Where Rawnsley is wrong (and probably distracted by his stagecoach analogy) when he says
    "But that manifesto gets more whiskery with each passing day... Should Corbyn Labour largely stand pat or should it prepare an even more leftwing offer for the next time the British people are asked to choose a government? " "Just as Harold Wilson predicted, when the stagecoach stops rattling along, everybody gets out and argues about where to go next."

    There is no evidence for that "argument" at all. The fact that Yvette Cooper voted against McDonnell's support for the raising of the tax threshold for higher earners does not indicate that Yvette wants a more left-wing manifesto than McDonnell! It indicates that McDonnell is giving very careful thought to how Labour might win the next election whereas Yvette is voting with her heart.

    With McDonnell pulling the strings, Labour will be formidable at the next election. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell persuades Corbyn to resign before the next election (if it's in 2022) for the greater good.

    Corbyn fall on his sword.. highly unlikely.. he had dreamed all his life of being L:eader of Labour and destroying the party. why should he resign when its going so well.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Scott_P said:
    Well brexit was always going to involve some cost and making a hard choice which many would not like, I think the idea the next Tory leader would not be in a very tough position regardless is rather strange. But we know how they will explain their loss in the next GE.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987

    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Rawnsley piece.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-labour-stagecoach-has-hit-a-bump-and-got-stuck-in-a-rut?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Rawnsley is right when he says McDonnell is better at maths than Corbyn. He's spot on with this:

    "The shadow chancellor will go and talk to business audiences, and even seems to relish the experience, while the Labour leader remains as allergic as always to engaging with any group that might take him out of his ideological comfort zone. The shadow chancellor is more palpably hungry for power. He believes they have a once-in-a-generation chance to form the sort of radical left government that they have spent decades dreaming about and that goal should be their relentless focus."


    Where Rawnsley is wrong (and probably distracted by his stagecoach analogy) when he says
    "But that manifesto gets more whiskery with each passing day... Should Corbyn Labour largely stand pat or should it prepare an even more leftwing offer for the next time the British people are asked to choose a government? " "Just as Harold Wilson predicted, when the stagecoach stops rattling along, everybody gets out and argues about where to go next."

    There is no evidence for that "argument" at all. The fact that Yvette Cooper voted against McDonnell's support for the raising of the tax threshold for higher earners does not indicate that Yvette wants a more left-wing manifesto than McDonnell! It indicates that McDonnell is giving very careful thought to how Labour might win the next election whereas Yvette is voting with her heart.

    With McDonnell pulling the strings, Labour will be formidable at the next election. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell persuades Corbyn to resign before the next election (if it's in 2022) for the greater good.

    Corbyn fall on his sword.. highly unlikely.. he had dreamed all his life of being L:eader of Labour and destroying the party. why should he resign when its going so well.
    Hmm. You're not taking this seriously.
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    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Rawnsley piece.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-labour-stagecoach-has-hit-a-bump-and-got-stuck-in-a-rut?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Rawnsley is right when he says McDonnell is better at maths than Corbyn. He's spot on with this:

    "The shadow chancellor will go and talk to business audiences, and even seems to relish the experience, while the Labour leader remains as allergic as always to engaging with any group that might take him out of his ideological comfort zone. The shadow chancellor is more palpably hungry for power. He believes they have a once-in-a-generation chance to form the sort of radical left government that they have spent decades dreaming about and that goal should be their relentless focus."


    Where Rawnsley is wrong (and probably distracted by his stagecoach analogy) when he says
    "But that manifesto gets more whiskery with each passing day... Should Corbyn Labour largely stand pat or should it prepare an even more leftwing offer for the next time the British people are asked to choose a government? " "Just as Harold Wilson predicted, when the stagecoach stops rattling along, everybody gets out and argues about where to go next."

    There is no evidence for that "argument" at all. The fact that Yvette Cooper voted against McDonnell's support for the raising of the tax threshold for higher earners does not indicate that Yvette wants a more left-wing manifesto than McDonnell! It indicates that McDonnell is giving very careful thought to how Labour might win the next election whereas Yvette is voting with her heart.

    With McDonnell pulling the strings, Labour will be formidable at the next election. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell persuades Corbyn to resign before the next election (if it's in 2022) for the greater good.

    McDonnell is much smarter than Corbyn and is much more politically astute. Corbyn is driven by interest in foreign policy and defence, McDonnell is much more focused on the day to day - and unlike Corbyn has clearly taken on a hell of a lot since he moved onto the political frontline. I suspect that were he in charge there would be a much stronger Labour shadow cabinet and far fewer own goals. Fundamentally, though, he and Corbyn agree on just about everything. It's just that McDonnell is much better at hiding his real views than Corbyn is.

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,581

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
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    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:

    I thought it was rather insensitive of Sophy Ridge to tell her live on air. I’m increasingly concerned about the way we publicise bereavement and grief in this country.
    Me too.
    I’m surprised the incident hasn’t drawn more comment. Yvette Cooper was visibly distressed to hear the news. Surely Ridge’s team could have let her know after her TV appearance?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
    You really ascribe too much to the referendum. Tying everything bad in our nation to it is just plain silly.
  • Options
    AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
    You really ascribe too much to the referendum. Tying everything bad in our nation to it is just plain silly.
    No. What is ‘silly’ (although I would prefer a stronger word) is pretending that the most disgraceful and xenophobic campaign for several decades hasn’t legitimised xenophobic ignorance. I’m afraid that the truth is out there.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:

    I thought it was rather insensitive of Sophy Ridge to tell her live on air. I’m increasingly concerned about the way we publicise bereavement and grief in this country.
    Me too.
    I’m surprised the incident hasn’t drawn more comment. Yvette Cooper was visibly distressed to hear the news. Surely Ridge’s team could have let her know after her TV appearance?
    It makes for good tv to see an instinctive reaction. My concern is more I feel people will get judged and shamed if they do not make a sufficient display at some point, and I don't want people judged for their grief. Or lack of it as the case may be.
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Rawnsley piece.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-labour-stagecoach-has-hit-a-bump-and-got-stuck-in-a-rut?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Rawnsley is right when he says McDonnell is better at maths than Corbyn. He's spot on with this:

    "The shadow chancellor will go and talk to business audiences, and even seems to relish the experience, while the Labour leader remains as allergic as always to engaging with any group that might take him out of his ideological comfort zone. The shadow chancellor is more palpably hungry for power. He believes they have a once-in-a-generation chance to form the sort of radical left government that they have spent decades dreaming about and that goal should be their relentless focus."


    Where Rawnsley is wrong (and probably distracted by his stagecoach analogy) when he says
    "But that manifesto gets more whiskery with each passing day... Should Corbyn Labour largely stand pat or should it prepare an even more leftwing offer for the next time the British people are asked to choose a government? " "Just as Harold Wilson predicted, when the stagecoach stops rattling along, everybody gets out and argues about where to go next."

    There is no evidence for that "argument" at all. The fact that Yvette Cooper voted against McDonnell's support for the raising of the tax threshold for higher earners does not indicate that Yvette wants a more left-wing manifesto than McDonnell! It indicates that McDonnell is giving very careful thought to how Labour might win the next election whereas Yvette is voting with her heart.

    With McDonnell pulling the strings, Labour will be formidable at the next election. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell persuades Corbyn to resign before the next election (if it's in 2022) for the greater good.

    McDonnell is much smarter than Corbyn and is much more politically astute. Corbyn is driven by interest in foreign policy and defence, McDonnell is much more focused on the day to day - and unlike Corbyn has clearly taken on a hell of a lot since he moved onto the political frontline. I suspect that were he in charge there would be a much stronger Labour shadow cabinet and far fewer own goals. Fundamentally, though, he and Corbyn agree on just about everything. It's just that McDonnell is much better at hiding his real views than Corbyn is.

    McDonnell also has a pretty impressive CV compared to Corbyn, particularly the GLC phase. He's actually run things, and seems to have done so pretty well insofar as it can be judged.
  • Options
    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    edited November 2018

    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Rawnsley piece.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-labour-stagecoach-has-hit-a-bump-and-got-stuck-in-a-rut?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Rawnsley is right when he says McDonnell is better at maths than Corbyn. He's spot on with this:

    "The shadow chancellor will go and talk to business audiences, and even seems to relish the experience, while the Labour leader remains as allergic as always to engaging with any group that might take him out of his ideological comfort zone. He believes they have a once-in-a-generation chance to form the sort of radical left government that they have spent decades dreaming about and that goal should be their relentless focus."


    Where Rawnsley is wrong when he says
    "Should Corbyn Labour largely stand pat or should it prepare an even more leftwing offer for the next time the British people are asked to choose a government? " "Just as Harold Wilson predicted, when the stagecoach stops rattling along, everybody gets out and argues about where to go next."

    There is no evidence for that "argument" at all. The fact that Yvette Cooper voted against McDonnell's support for the raising of the tax threshold for higher earners does not indicate that Yvette wants a more left-wing manifesto than McDonnell! It indicates that McDonnell is giving very careful thought to how Labour might win the next election whereas Yvette is voting with her heart.

    With McDonnell pulling the strings, Labour will be formidable at the next election. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell persuades Corbyn to resign before the next election (if it's in 2022) for the greater good.

    McDonnell is much smarter than Corbyn and is much more politically astute. Corbyn is driven by interest in foreign policy and defence, McDonnell is much more focused on the day to day - and unlike Corbyn has clearly taken on a hell of a lot since he moved onto the political frontline. I suspect that were he in charge there would be a much stronger Labour shadow cabinet and far fewer own goals. Fundamentally, though, he and Corbyn agree on just about everything. It's just that McDonnell is much better at hiding his real views than Corbyn is.

    Agreed. And when they disagree on political tactics, it appears that Corbyn defers to McDonnell.

    However, as Rawnsley says "Mr McDonnell was furious that Mr Corbyn allowed Labour’s summer to be devoured by the ugly furore over antisemitism, drowning out anything that the party had to say about the economy or any other subject."

    As I said, I can see McDonnell persuading Corbyn to stand aside for a more voter friendly Leader (Thornberry?) for the greater good. Anyone know how Thornberry and McDonnell get on personally?
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    edited November 2018

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Thanks NIck. I agree on the basic point but I do not have data on how much GHG imports account for, and finding data more recent than say 2010 is tricky.

    We have also killed much of our energy intensive industry eg aluminium by high energy prices, which has the same effect.

    Can you point me to any recent data on these?

    Cheers.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    It's rather amusing that a piece by Alastair explaining why you should always look to lay the flavour of the month as a betting strategy almost immediately becomes a thread on who the next leader will be.

    The essential message of the piece is:

    Leadership elections do not happen nearly as often as leader writers seem to expect they will.

    Those that appear to be in pole position now often fade from view before any such election occurs.

    Those that are prominent then are often not so now.

    Bet accordingly.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    If Corbyn becomes PM after the next general election then a Corbynista is likely to succeed him as Labour leader and a new centrist party may even emerge ultimately.

    If the Tories win a majoroty a the next general election though there may be much more scope for centeusts to challenge for the Labour leadership
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Anazina said:

    #ManchesterTownHall

    People have said it is classic Brexit Britain, but it has nothing to do with that. It is just an idiot.

    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/greek-passport-hellenic-geek-council-12124268
    The scale of sheer ignorance in a public administration is scary. Sadly the referendum legitimised such ignorance, elevating it in some quarters to a badge of honour. It’s all geek to them.
    You really ascribe too much to the referendum. Tying everything bad in our nation to it is just plain silly.
    No. What is ‘silly’ (although I would prefer a stronger word) is pretending that the most disgraceful and xenophobic campaign for several decades hasn’t legitimised xenophobic ignorance. I’m afraid that the truth is out there.
    One, you were speaking of legitimizing ignorance in public administration, a very generic term which does not restrict to mere xenophobic ignorance as per the example. If you want to go on about xenophobia I disagree even though I too called out the campaign as bad at the time, but my point was you are clearly searching to tie anything bad into brexit, even just bad administration. The use of legitimise in this context appears to be that there is no connection between bad administration and brexit but you want to pretend there is one. And you've rolled back from the generic complaint about ignorance in administration to pretend you only meant xenophobic ignorance.

    It's pretty obvious I'm afraid. And I'm sorry, but I still do not know what you mean by legitimizing things anyway. Clearly views existed before votes and were not created by the votes, and if anything the countering of the perceived problems is the thing that has increased which sounds like good news to me.

    If the country is in a mess it's because off the things that led to brexit happening not because of it. And pretending even generic ignorance in public administration is because of brexit is remarkably transparent and desperate.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
    There are still some (relatively) easy gains to come, as the price of wind power drops - the technologies developed for much larger turbines have made a dramatic difference (and if they were allowed onshore, they’d be cheaper than any other source of electricity already).


  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited November 2018

    Could be wrong, but didn't the Commons vote against the UK Remaining in a custom union?

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1058844047635349509

    The Commons voted by just 307 votes to 301 to leave the Customs Union with May and the government voting to leave, a far closer margin than its votes to leave the EU and the Single Market.

    Now May and the government have effectively decided to stay in the Customs Union (at least until the NI border is resolved) it will almost certainly pass the Commons
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    DavidL said:

    It's rather amusing that a piece by Alastair explaining why you should always look to lay the flavour of the month as a betting strategy almost immediately becomes a thread on who the next leader will be.

    The essential message of the piece is:

    Leadership elections do not happen nearly as often as leader writers seem to expect they will.

    Those that appear to be in pole position now often fade from view before any such election occurs.

    Those that are prominent then are often not so now.

    Bet accordingly.

    Old habits are hard to break.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    Aaron Banks on Marr
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,987
    Some pointers to next Labour leader (and possibly PM) as selected by John McDonnell (who is really in charge of the Labour Party).

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/john-mcdonell-i-hope-labours-next-leader-will-be-female

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/10/emily-thornberry-repeatedly-refuses-condemn-john-mcdonnell-stain/

    Lay Thornberry and Long-Bailey at your peril!
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    Nigelb said:

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
    There are still some (relatively) easy gains to come, as the price of wind power drops - the technologies developed for much larger turbines have made a dramatic difference (and if they were allowed onshore, they’d be cheaper than any other source of electricity already).


    There is also a long way to go in solar which gets ever cheaper. Even today, in November, we are currently estimated to be generating 4% of our energy from solar. I suspect we will be up over 10% for periods next year.

    The next critical stage is surely going to be the mass electrification of transport so that all this clean energy can be used.
  • Options
    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    brendan16 said:

    'There is much to be said for laying Emily Thornberry at 7 or so'.

    Did I read that right? That's no way to talk about a Lady.

    In even more shocking news the latest poll out in Florida has the Republican Rick Scott ahead in the Senate race - its by StPetes Polls who are a division of Fextel apparently.

    http://stpetepolls.org/files/StPetePolls_2018_State_GEN_GovSenAg_November02_S8UG.pdf

    Much drama to come overnight on Tuesday!

    The more interesting race in Florida is the Governor race which the Democrats could take for the first time in 19 years, even if the Democrats gain the Florida Senate seat they are unlikely to take the Senate as a whole
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited November 2018
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Interesting Rawnsley piece.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/04/the-labour-stagecoach-has-hit-a-bump-and-got-stuck-in-a-rut?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


    Rawnsley is right when he says McDonnell is better at maths than Corbyn. He's spot on with this:

    "The shadow chancellor will go and talk to business audiences, and even seems to relish the experience, while the Labour leader remains as allergic as always to engaging with any group that might take him out of his ideological comfort zone. The shadow chancellor is more palpably hungry for power. He believes they have a once-in-a-generation chance to form the sort of radical left government that they have spent decades dreaming about and that goal should be their relentless focus."


    Where Rawnsley is wrong (and probably distracted by his stagecoach analogy) when he says
    "But that manifesto gets more whiskery with each passing day... Should Corbyn Labour largely stand pat or should it prepare an even more leftwing offer for the next time the British people are asked to choose a government? " "Just as Harold Wilson predicted, when the stagecoach stops rattling along, everybody gets out and argues about where to go next."

    There is no evidence for that "argument" at all. The fact that Yvette Cooper voted against McDonnell's support for the raising of the tax threshold for higher earners does not indicate that Yvette wants a more left-wing manifesto than McDonnell! It indicates that McDonnell is giving very careful thought to how Labour might win the next election whereas Yvette is voting with her heart.

    With McDonnell pulling the strings, Labour will be formidable at the next election. It wouldn't surprise me if McDonnell persuades Corbyn to resign before the next election (if it's in 2022) for the greater good.

    Corbyn fall on his sword.. highly unlikely.. he had dreamed all his life of being L:eader of Labour and destroying the party. why should he resign when its going so well.
    Hmm. You're not taking this seriously.
    really.. its a fair assessment of the situation The left are destroying the Labour Party as it was and replacing it with a hard left base.. eg attempts at deselections.
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:

    I thought it was rather insensitive of Sophy Ridge to tell her live on air. I’m increasingly concerned about the way we publicise bereavement and grief in this country.
    Me too.
    I’m surprised the incident hasn’t drawn more comment. Yvette Cooper was visibly distressed to hear the news. Surely Ridge’s team could have let her know after her TV appearance?
    It makes for good tv to see an instinctive reaction. My concern is more I feel people will get judged and shamed if they do not make a sufficient display at some point, and I don't want people judged for their grief. Or lack of it as the case may be.
    That is some moment. Very moving.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943



    We also know from the polling that Labour membership remains very very europhile and that's before an influx of grief stricken remainers signing up to vote in an attempt to recapture a major party as will surely happen.

    Grief stricken remainer is pretty much me. In terms of joining a party to influence things my thought process is to join the Conservatives. Labour is already well on the way to coming out for rejoin. But they are still not a shoe in for the next government. The Tory party could well win the next few elections. It also has most of the Europhobe MPs that I want to see the back of.

    I am probably not going to act on this. I have other things to do. But I think it's the Tories that will be the Europhile target.
    The Tory membership is now strongly pro Leave, we will never rejoin the full EU or even the single market while we have a Tory government.

    It would need a Labour government and with Corbyn PM one reliant on the more EUphile SNP and LDs for that
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
    There are still some (relatively) easy gains to come, as the price of wind power drops - the technologies developed for much larger turbines have made a dramatic difference (and if they were allowed onshore, they’d be cheaper than any other source of electricity already).


    There is also a long way to go in solar which gets ever cheaper. Even today, in November, we are currently estimated to be generating 4% of our energy from solar. I suspect we will be up over 10% for periods next year.

    The next critical stage is surely going to be the mass electrification of transport so that all this clean energy can be used.
    Agreed - and transport electrification will likely be accomplished by the market, with government either helping or hindering a bit.

  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see

    What I want to know is, was Rock Services Ltd registered at 788-790 Finchley Road.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    edited November 2018

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
    "Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist."

    Unless I have misunderstood, the CO2 released from burning wood pellets is only the equivalent CO2 previously absorbed by the trees from which those pellets have come.

    Thus burning wood pellets is carbon-neutral.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,583
    tlg86 said:

    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see

    What I want to know is, was Rock Services Ltd registered at 788-790 Finchley Road.
    I have a hunchman that it may have been.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
    There are still some (relatively) easy gains to come, as the price of wind power drops - the technologies developed for much larger turbines have made a dramatic difference (and if they were allowed onshore, they’d be cheaper than any other source of electricity already).


    There is also a long way to go in solar which gets ever cheaper. Even today, in November, we are currently estimated to be generating 4% of our energy from solar. I suspect we will be up over 10% for periods next year.

    The next critical stage is surely going to be the mass electrification of transport so that all this clean energy can be used.
    Agreed - and transport electrification will likely be accomplished by the market, with government either helping or hindering a bit.

    I think that the government will have a very important role to play in infrastructure. Creating enough charging points for electrical vehicles to work properly is going to be a massive challenge and the public sector should also be leading the way with public transport etc. Plus we are of course going to need a lot more generated power.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    tlg86 said:

    Former cabinet secretary Jeremy Heywood has died.

    RIP He seemed very capable
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,137

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
    "Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist."

    Unless I have misunderstood, the CO2 released from burning wood pellets is only the equivalent CO2 previously absorbed by the trees from which those pellets have come.

    Thus burning wood pellets is carbon-neutral.
    Well yes, but using that wood to make deckchairs, in comparison, is carbon positive.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387
    Superheroes are more violent than their adversaries:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181102083446.htm
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see

    Pretty much. I don't think it would change anybody's mind. But I did think that AB would make a good interviewer. He should give Marr some tips.
  • Options

    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see

    To be honest, if the BBC wanted to do this properly, they would have sent Andrew Neil in for the job.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited November 2018
    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827

    tlg86 said:

    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see

    What I want to know is, was Rock Services Ltd registered at 788-790 Finchley Road.
    I have a hunchman that it may have been.
    788- 790 FR has moved to 2 Woodberry Grove
  • Options

    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see

    To be honest, if the BBC wanted to do this properly, they would have sent Andrew Neil in for the job.

    Marr's continued employment by the BBC is a genuine puzzle. Neil is a Brexit-backing right-winger, but he does his research, knows his stuff and shows no favours to anyone. The fact that Banks was happy to appear on Marr shows how poor an interviewer Marr is. That's why he also gets Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn when Neil doesn't, of course.

  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,387
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Decarbonisation of electricity generation has been relatively easy up to now. However we have achieved most of the easy gains and it gets trickier going forward. (Plus it also relies on pretending that the CO2 emitted from burning wood pellets doesn't exist.)

    Plus offshoring highly emitting industry has made the UK figures look good, as you say Nick.

    Decarbonisation of heat and transport are a heck of a lot more difficult. A combination of electrification and replacing natural gas with hydrogen looks to be the way forward, but it isn't going to be cheap.
    There are still some (relatively) easy gains to come, as the price of wind power drops - the technologies developed for much larger turbines have made a dramatic difference (and if they were allowed onshore, they’d be cheaper than any other source of electricity already).


    There is also a long way to go in solar which gets ever cheaper. Even today, in November, we are currently estimated to be generating 4% of our energy from solar. I suspect we will be up over 10% for periods next year.

    The next critical stage is surely going to be the mass electrification of transport so that all this clean energy can be used.
    Agreed - and transport electrification will likely be accomplished by the market, with government either helping or hindering a bit.

    I think that the government will have a very important role to play in infrastructure. Creating enough charging points for electrical vehicles to work properly is going to be a massive challenge and the public sector should also be leading the way with public transport etc. Plus we are of course going to need a lot more generated power.
    You’re right. I perhaps overstated the case, but the point is that it’s going to happen eventually whatever they do, and they should be planning for it.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    Anazina said:

    Scott_P said:

    I thought it was rather insensitive of Sophy Ridge to tell her live on air. I’m increasingly concerned about the way we publicise bereavement and grief in this country.
    LOL, get a life snowflake.
  • Options
    Almost a case of nominative determinism (I believe a batten is a long thin plank rather than a short thick one).

    https://twitter.com/AngryScotland/status/1059012449737887744
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658
    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    That must really annoy that UN Committee on Decolonization.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    That must really annoy that UN Committee on Decolonization.
    Indeed but will be good news for President Macron who has said France 'will be less beautiful' without New Caledonia
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    kle4 said:

    malcolmg said:

    AndyJS said:

    Lisa Nandy would be the best choice, by far. That means you can forget about her. Cooper is out because she is also smart and, unforgiveably, sat in the last Labour cabinet. Thornberry is a bit too transparent in her ambition for many on the left: they think, rightly, that her support for Jeremy is tactical rather than convinced. From time to time, she also says mildly positive things about Israel. I have a horrible feeling that when the day eventually arrives, it will be Laura Pidcock who gets the job.

    Agree, Lisa Nandy and Yvette Cooper would both be excellent choices.
    Both useless no hopers, what a state this country is in when people suggest this is the top talent to run the country. We really are well and truly f****d.
    Any options you think would be palatable if unlikely?
    Kle I despair at the lack of talent in politicians today. Hard to see any labour or Tory MP that has real talent and would make a good job of it. Danger is people will just give up and the dross will get elected with very low support.
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    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    That must really annoy that UN Committee on Decolonization.
    I should probably google it, but I seem to remember seeing the results from New Caledonia in some election result coverage when I was in France that made me think it was treated as part of France and had representation in the National Assembly accordingly. I'd have thought that was worth keeping.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    At least if they do it will mean there are more yellow bellies other than the Scots.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    I do not know the detail with Banks but Marr comes over as hectoring and trying to talk over Banks. Pointless interview as far as I can see

    To be honest, if the BBC wanted to do this properly, they would have sent Andrew Neil in for the job.

    Marr's continued employment by the BBC is a genuine puzzle. Neil is a Brexit-backing right-winger, but he does his research, knows his stuff and shows no favours to anyone. The fact that Banks was happy to appear on Marr shows how poor an interviewer Marr is. That's why he also gets Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn when Neil doesn't, of course.

    I don’t understand why you are puzzled.

    The BBC is run by a group of people who all went to public school together, and Oxbridge together, and ran Varsity or Isis together, and wrote features for the Guardian and the Times together, and give each other awards for journalism together.

    What do you expect?

    Next stop for Marr after the BBC is Mastership of an Oxbridge College ... like his wife.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,658

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    That must really annoy that UN Committee on Decolonization.
    I should probably google it, but I seem to remember seeing the results from New Caledonia in some election result coverage when I was in France that made me think it was treated as part of France and had representation in the National Assembly accordingly. I'd have thought that was worth keeping.
    I presume it is, and if the people are happy with that then that's great, but I believe it is still included on the list of non self governing territories by the UN, the implication of which is that they should become self governing, ideally through independence, no matter if they currently say they want that or not. But that may be unfair on the committee, I do not know much of their operation, clearly, other than that they do an annual statement on the Falklands.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    That must really annoy that UN Committee on Decolonization.
    I should probably google it, but I seem to remember seeing the results from New Caledonia in some election result coverage when I was in France that made me think it was treated as part of France and had representation in the National Assembly accordingly. I'd have thought that was worth keeping.
    All the French possessions are treated as part of Metropolitan France politically I recall. The UN Committee might look at some recent colonizations in Asia.

    There’s also a money issues - Vanuatu’s economy is based on vessel registrations. NC had some mining but basically bugger all.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322



    really.. its a fair assessment of the situation The left are destroying the Labour Party as it was and replacing it with a hard left base.. eg attempts at deselections.

    What attempts at deselections? The total to date is zero. A couple of non-binding VONCs to show some members are unhappy, meh.

    Non-deselection is a deliberate policy, with risks. Mementum supports (and probably most members) would think it'd be better to deselect an MP than have him come out against the party the day before the election. Members can surely reasonably ask for assurances that if X is reselected as a Labour candidate they will be recommending voters to vote Labour.
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    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    At least if they do it will mean there are more yellow bellies other than the Scots.
    I imagine that it must really irk many SNPers that their Scottish compatriots were "yellow bellied" but that 2 years later their English compatriots were not.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited November 2018
    Marine Le Pen's Rassemblement National Party comes first in a new poll for next year's European elections in France on 21% overtaking Macron's En Marche which falls to 19% with Les Republicains on 13% and Melenchon's party on 11%


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/04/french-far-right-overtakes-macron-eu-parliament-election-poll/amp/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw&__twitter_impression=true
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,827
    HYUFD said:

    Marine Le Pen's Rassemblement National Party comes first in a new poll for next year's European elections on 21% overtaking Macron's En Marche which falls to 19% with Les Republicains on 13% and Melenchon's party on 11%


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/04/french-far-right-overtakes-macron-eu-parliament-election-poll/amp/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw&__twitter_impression=true

    MLPWNB.........
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    John Rentoul praises Alistair Meeks article this morning

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1059040766838870016
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,322
    MattW said:

    In response to MattW, the UK's success in reducing greenhouse gases is jolly good, but predominantly due to our exporting a lot of our manufacturing industry to China. If you don't make anything, you don't generate nasty emissions. If one really wants to do the full hypocrite thing, one can then denounce China for not doing enough to cut emissions.

    Thanks NIck. I agree on the basic point but I do not have data on how much GHG imports account for, and finding data more recent than say 2010 is tricky.

    We have also killed much of our energy intensive industry eg aluminium by high energy prices, which has the same effect.

    Can you point me to any recent data on these?

    Cheers.
    This seems a pretty thorough analysis, though I had to read it slowly to make sure I understood it (I think!). Bottom line seems to be that we and other industrialised countries exported loads of CO2 in the 1990-2007 period, but the process has now halted. An unexpected detail is that the real villains of the piece are the Swiss, who have cut their emission back while going on a wild spree with CO2-intensive imports.

    https://www.carbonbrief.org/mapped-worlds-largest-co2-importers-exporters
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943
    edited November 2018
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    At least if they do it will mean there are more yellow bellies other than the Scots.
    The New Caledonians also have representation in the French National Assembly as Recidivist pointed out.

    Though if the New Caledonians join the Scots and Quebecois as 'yellow bellies' having rejected independence in a referendum rather ironic that the only voters recently to vote for independence are the Catalonians, even if in only an unofficial referendum
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    At least if they do it will mean there are more yellow bellies other than the Scots.
    I imagine that it must really irk many SNPers that their Scottish compatriots were "yellow bellied" but that 2 years later their English compatriots were not.
    Irked but not by the English having the cojones , just by the Scots being such fearties.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    HYUFD said:

    John Rentoul praises Alistair Meeks article this morning

    https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1059040766838870016

    I would not take that as a compliment , Rentoul is a clown.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,818
    matt said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    That must really annoy that UN Committee on Decolonization.
    I should probably google it, but I seem to remember seeing the results from New Caledonia in some election result coverage when I was in France that made me think it was treated as part of France and had representation in the National Assembly accordingly. I'd have thought that was worth keeping.
    All the French possessions are treated as part of Metropolitan France politically I recall. The UN Committee might look at some recent colonizations in Asia.

    There’s also a money issues - Vanuatu’s economy is based on vessel registrations. NC had some mining but basically bugger all.
    They have 25% of the planets nickel , given its use they have plenty of valuable resources.
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    mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    malcolmg said:

    matt said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    That must really annoy that UN Committee on Decolonization.
    I should probably google it, but I seem to remember seeing the results from New Caledonia in some election result coverage when I was in France that made me think it was treated as part of France and had representation in the National Assembly accordingly. I'd have thought that was worth keeping.
    All the French possessions are treated as part of Metropolitan France politically I recall. The UN Committee might look at some recent colonizations in Asia.

    There’s also a money issues - Vanuatu’s economy is based on vessel registrations. NC had some mining but basically bugger all.
    They have 25% of the planets nickel , given its use they have plenty of valuable resources.
    Economically unviable if one believes the USGS and Vale. I’ll stick with insolvent.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,943

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    At least if they do it will mean there are more yellow bellies other than the Scots.
    I imagine that it must really irk many SNPers that their Scottish compatriots were "yellow bellied" but that 2 years later their English compatriots were not.
    Though whether the fudged Brexit May is concocting today which will keep the whole UK in a Customs Union is really 'independence' is debateable, judging by their tweets this morning many Brexiteers do not think so
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    At least if they do it will mean there are more yellow bellies other than the Scots.
    I imagine that it must really irk many SNPers that their Scottish compatriots were "yellow bellied" but that 2 years later their English compatriots were not.
    Though whether the fudged Brexit May is concocting today which will keep the whole UK in a Customs Union is really 'independence' is debateable, judging by their tweets this morning many Brexiteers do not think so
    Tough. Where’s their viable and possible alternative?
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,158
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    There have been 28 Tory prime ministers and 6 Labour prime ministers. The Tories elected a woman on the 25th and 28th go. If Labour get to double figures, which they may not, I suspect they will have caught up.

    I think it's fair to compare the parties across the period both have been in existence only, but I do think some Tories are little over the top in mocking labour for not yet having a female leader. There are so many high profile women in labour that it will happen at some point and while electing someone purely because its time for a woman leader is bloody stupid I really don't get the feeling there's no chance a woman could win.

    They are mocking the very large gap between what Labour say and what they do, which has been going on for some considerable time now, from the days when Labour had rather more high profile women than the Tories ever did, as well as the sheer brass neck which Labour often displays when criticising others rather than attend to its own faults.
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    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    Voters in the French Pacific territory of New Caledonia are voting today on whether to become independent from France but polls suggest they will reject independence

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-46087053

    At least if they do it will mean there are more yellow bellies other than the Scots.
    The New Caledonians also have representation in the French National Assembly as Recidivist pointed out.

    Though if the New Caledonians join the Scots and Quebecois as 'yellow bellies' having rejected independence in a referendum rather ironic that the only voters recently to vote for independence are the Catalonians, even if in only an unofficial referendum
    But the Quebecois did vote for independence,

    Battu par l’argent et le vote ethnique.

    The falling away of Quebecois independence parties remains surprising, given that they were so close in 1995.
This discussion has been closed.